Lathe - Belts



Flat belt question (Mar 17, 2001) Motor drive v-belt question (Sep 27, 2003)
V belt size for 9" lathe? (Apr 8, 2001) V belt Question (Sep 27, 2003)
Need POWER Leather belt isn't hacking it! (Jul 1, 2001) Flat belt questions (Oct 5, 2003)
Vee Belt Drive (Aug 8, 2001) 9" 4-step belt question (Nov 11, 2003)
Endless drive belt (Sep 1, 2001) Replacement flat belt for heavy 10 (Jan 23, 2004)
9 inch belt tensioner (Dec 12, 2001) Leblond Belt (Jan 24, 2004)
Leather belt woes (Jan 8, 2002) Length of strap in 13"  (Feb 3, 2004)
V-belt change (Jun 15, 2002) V Belt Replacement (Feb 21, 2004)
New belt glued or clipped? (Aug 21, 2002) Question on Belt Drives (Mar 18, 2004)
Belting (Sep 13, 2003) SB9, Serpentine Belt: Groves In/Out (Mar 31, 2004)
Flat belt underneath drive question (Oct 29, 2002) Belt lacing diagram? (Apr 13, 2004)
Drive belt conversion (Dec 24, 2002) 10K belt replacement? (May 20, 2004)
Texalon flat belt (Feb 11, 2003) Need Belt info (Jul 28, 2004)
Belt tentioner (May 17, 2003) Belt materials (Nov 2, 2004)
Flat belt or VBelt pulley (May 24, 2003) Where to get belt lacing clips? (Nov 5, 2004)
Installing a belt (Aug 12, 2003) 9" Vee belt history/advice? (Feb 6, 2005)
Long term belt care (Sep 20, 2003) Serpentine Belts (Aug 4, 2006)
Flat belt question
Does anyone know of a source of reasonably priced flat belts for the South Bend Lathes? Must they be made of leather? Certainly Vee belts are made from some composition material and are very durable and inexpensive. (326)
Try you local bearing/belt distributor. They can supply a flat rubber belt. Just take in your old one. Cost is usually about $30 Marty (327)
I ordered one for about $13.78 from McMaster-Carr. I think it was: 6082K35 "Endless NBR Rubber Flat Belt 3/4" Width, 53" Circumference" Check the web site, and order the length you need. Comes pre-fastened, so you have to tear apart the headstock and counter shaft to install. I think 53" might have been a hair long for me, and also closer to 1" would have been a better width, but I'm not sure if it would fit the pulleys with the slight wandering the flat belts do on spin-up. Can't beat the price, thought, and if kept free from grease, the slip very little (compare that to leather). Paul R. (328)
V belt size for 9" lathe?
Can anyone tell me the size (series and length) V belt used between the motor and jackshaft of the 9" horizontal drive models with two speed ranges on the jackshaft? The badly worn belt on mine says Gates TruFlex 3430 and 4543-C, but neither part number makes the length obvious. Chris (495)
I'll trade you. If you tell me the size of the pulleys on the motor, I'll tell you the V-Belt size. Just kidding, though I do need to know the pulley size so I can buy a replacement. When I spoke to the folks at SouthBend, they said a 40" or 42" 5L belt. I got a 40" belt and it fits my single pulley model just fine. You may need the 42" for the two speed version, luckily belts don't cost too much. chris (496)
I don't know how to measure the pitch diameter properly, but maybe this is a help. Small: 1.1" base of groove, 2.1" across the rim Large: 2.4" base of groove, 3.4" across the rim According to HTRAL the jackshaft speeds on the 2Vx3flatxBackgear 12 speed model are 615 and 335 rpm. I'm suddenly realizing that the math relating that to pulley sizes isn't so simple after all, as one has to figure out how much the bigger pulleys change in diameter to keep the same size belt (which seams equally tight in both positions). I might just order both. Chris (497)
Not that this has anything directly to do with your questions, but I am doing a custom motor/countershaft arrangement. My 9" had a real weird configuration that I am replacing. I'm using a 3/4 HP 1150 RPM motor instead of the normal 1750 RPM motor. I'm machining a two-step pulley for the counter shaft that will be 9" diameter (the largest I can produce on the lathe), and the appropriate two-step pulley for the motor. I used some nice formulas and wrote a program to calculate belt-length and pulley sizes since it got to be quite tedious. Just an FYI, the formula for belt length is: L = 2C + pi/2 (D + d) + [(D-d)^2 / 4C] where: L= length in inches, C=center-to-center distance of pulleys in inches D=large pulley diameter in inches d=small pulley diameter in inches. Just thought someone might want to know. Paul R. (498)
The plot thickens! I had no sooner sent that message than I checked my junkbox, and wouldn't ya know it, the only 5L sheave in the lot looks to be a match for the one on my lathe's motor at least as far as the OD's are concerned. It is 3/4" bore with a keyway and a provision for a setscrew (alas missing). Hefts like it must be either iron or steel, not pot metal. Drop me a line if you can't find one. Chris (499)
The correct size for your two speed v belt is a "B41" which is a 40" belt. I just replaced mine Last week. Jim (502)
You may want to try several belts. My 9" two speed range horizontal drive lathe required a 43" belt. A Gates 3430. The recommended 42" would not fit. Jake (504)
Chris, I'm not going to disagree with Jims' suggestion, but the belt you have now is a 43" belt. Ballendo P.S. You can use a dressmakers flexible tape measure (usually 60" long) to measure a belt measure both the inside and outside. The REAL length will be between the two measurements; closer to the outside measurement with std. vee-belts. (505)
Since I was driving by the local bearing house, I took in the existing belt, and they determined it was a 5L 43 incher. They then proceeded to sell me a B series belt which is "just the same only rated for more power and rides deeper in the sheeves" as they didn't have the 5L in stock. Counter guy looked real skeptical when I described the SB V and flat sheeve combo. Skepticism undiminished by my claim that thousands of machines have been running fine this way for the past 60 years. I think I probably will put the proper 5L belt on my next MSC or McMaster order, as this belt being taller and thinner at the base runs a bit unsteadily. But 43" is the right size for my machine. Chris (506)
It should be pointed out that, although a "B" series belt is very similar to a "5L" series, when used on a "V to Flat" drive such as the South Bend or Logan uses, they are NOT interchangeable. This is due primarily to the height of the belt. Referring back to Chris' original query, he said the belt number was a Gates 3430. If that belt fits correctly, the "industry standard" number would be 5L430, which is a 21/32" wide, 3/8" high, 43" OUTSIDE CIRCUMFERENCE, Fractional Horsepower V-Belt. I emphasize the outside circumference, because with standard V-Belts, such as a B43, the length designator is the Pitch Length. The outside circumference of a B43 is 46". A B40 would have an outside circumference of 43", but due to the difference in height, it is not truly interchangeable with a 5L430. B Series belts are 21/32" wide x 13/32" high. BTW, if the counter guy doesn't understand a V to flat drive, you need to find a different counter. While it may not be used often any more, it was at one time a very common type of drive, and still very useable. It had the main advantage of allowing a belt to be shifted without having to readjust the pulley centers. Today, many drives use flat belts which eliminate this requirement, and with modern materials, the flat belt can handle more horsepower than in past years. I know, more than any of you ever wanted to know. Scott Logan (507)
It seems like Scott is right on the money here - when I look at the receipt, the B belt the bearing house sold me as a substitute for the 43" 5L is a B40. Tension seems about right, i.e., it is working without any adjustment to the motor position. But I still plan getting a 5L soon. Chris (509)
Need POWER Leather belt isn't hacking it !
I've got with my 9"X36" tp. A . I know it can be easily done with only the right information. So I'm asking all you knowledgeable, experienced, been there, done that fellows to pool your collective knowledge and tell me what the BEST belt to use would be. Mine is a rear motor drive, and the motor mounting plate is welded to the motor housing. The starting capacitor cover is on the top of the motor, and the leather belt which I have on it now rubs it hard. If I've put that belt back on the pulley once, I've put it back on 1000 times, and I'm limited to the amount of cut I can take to the point of being ridiculous. What I want to do, Is find an endless belt, by my calculations 47", which will bring the jack shaft/motor mount further forward, thereby lowering the motor, and hopefully transmitting max power to the spindle. I know there's a fellow on e-bay who has hi-tech belts for sale, but $50.00 seems a little pricey. I believe that I saw a post once from a guy who said he had them for half that, but I've no clue who he is. Point me to the right belt, and I'll buy it at the speed of light! John (989)
My old leather belt bit the dust about 10 years ago . I phoned into BC Belting here in Vancouver and gave them all the specs for a endless lathe belt . I sent my wife in to get it and when she came back and told me the price I near collapsed . It was $72 . Now that's in Canuck funds and 10 years ago. I've seen that fellow on e-bay selling for $50 so I don't think he's too far out of line . I've been tempted to buy one for a spare but this one looks the same as it did 10 years ago and has a tremendous amount of mileage on it, same as myself. I'm starting to get a mite long in the tooth so I'd hate to bite the dust before this 10 year old belt did and then have the next owner (likely the junk dealer my wife would phone) to get a new belt courtesy of me. Barrie (990)
Barrie, How does that belt perform ? What kind of cuts can you take and at what feeds in mild steel ? In aluminum ? john (992)
John, I don't know what kind of belt this is but it's a light green on the top side and a yellow underneath and sort of a gritty rubberized type. I'm sure it is synthetic and I've seen one on e-Bay the same color, maybe it is the fellow that has one on now. I have a old 1947 9"x48 " . I power it with a 1 HP Baldor with a variable speed control, ( the best move I ever made) . My two chums across the street have a 13 " and a 20" so any real heavy cutting I just walk it over there. On my lathe I use a 3/8 " Kennametal tool holder and use a T221S -730 insert . This inset is a special for SS . I forget half the time and just use it for everything. With these I can zip right along in 309 or 316 SS and with the luber going , take .020 to .040 quite easily. I make a lot of glass blowing pipes for the industry so have got pretty handy with working SS. My lathe has the lever type tightner so thus there never is any slippage unless of course you were to but the gear in and really poured it to it. Barrie (993)
I believe it was Scott Logan of Logan Lathes that offered a better deal on belts. I did buy one of the EBay belts out of desperation, and before Scott offered. It works GREAT! It is a stiff two-tone 1"wide, by about 1/8" thick continuous belt (he also offered spliced versions). Check the Logan lathes web site and see what you can turn up. Scott, if you're out there, maybe you can offer some advise. Paul R. (997)
Paul, yes I'm here. I've avoided commenting on this subject, because I did not think you or the other members wanted this turned into a commercial board. As you've brought it up, I'll comment. Yes, we can supply belts to fit South Bend Lathes. We would supply the same style as we supply for Logans. These are custom made for us, to sizes we specify. Belts in stock for Logan Lathes: LP-1183* 1" x 39" $33.75 LP-1184* 1" x 38" $32.00 LP-1185* 1" x 40" $34.00 LP-1186 1" x 53-1/2" $42.00 The first three belts are stocked either in an endless nylon or an open composition material. The open belts include Clipper(r) Lacing (the metal hinge and pins to connect the ends). The endless nylon belt will be quieter and probably last slightly longer, but (at least on Logan Lathes) require you to remove the spindle. The open belts can be installed without any disassembly. The LP-1186 is (according to good information I've received) appropriate for at least some South Bend 9" Lathes. The LP-1186 is not stocked as endless, since on the Logan 11" Cabinet Model (where it is used), it passes through a hole cut in the bed and an endless belt can not be used. We can provide either endless or open belts in any size required, but please understand that sizes other than stock ones listed are NOT returnable, as they are special order. Power transmission: I have used the LP-1186 on an 11" Logan here in our shop. It will handle all the power I would want to throw at it. I have managed to take cuts that will stall the MOTOR, and the belt did not slip. One cut I took, when a customer was having trouble, was on ~4" diameter cast iron. I forget the spindle speed, but the cut was 0.150" deep (radius) and 0.010 IPR feed. It strained the motor, but nothing stalled or slipped. This was with the open composition material. The endless nylon belts will handle more. FWIW, Logan Lathes were NOT supplied with Leather Belts. The originals were a rubberized canvas composition, and were endless. The exception is the 11" Cabinet Models, and endless could not be installed (even at the factory), but it was glued together after assembly. I'm not sure of the material. For further details or prices of custom sized belts, please contact me OFF-LIST. Of course, if a group purchase of a larger number of belts of the same size can be arranged, the price will be lower. I feel pretty certain that the price will be less than what was being sold on eBay. I know South Bend still sells belts for their lathes. At one time, I checked, and the price for the 53-1/2" belt was something like $120 or so. I will happily put our endless belts against the belt from SB in a direct test (if anyone is willing to buy one at that price), and I will bet our belts will be more than adequate, for this class of machine. An identical belt material (but ~2" wide) is used on our CNC Lathe, and handles 10HP cuts. BTW, there is a related Yahoo! Group for Logan Lathe owners. I know there are a couple of "cross-subscribers" but for others who may be interested, see: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lathe-list Scott Logan (998)
Scott Logan wrote: I wonder if you would be able to offer any comments on a situation I experienced with a 13" south bend while turning 3-4" cast iron. I found I had to take fairly light cuts - say no more than .020" deep (this was true even when I was well inside the stock and is pretty typical for this lathe). If I tried to go deeper first the machine would slow down - very obvious as a change in the tone of the noisy power feed gearbox - and then eventually the leather belt would slip off the cone pulley. This usually resulted in the tool being jammed into the work, and the carbide insert would always break as the tool was backed out. What I haven't been able to figure out is if the belt was starting to slip, or perhaps the V-belts to the jackshaft were slipping, or if the 1.5 HP motor itself was slowing down. I keep meaning to repeat the experiment while monitoring the motor and jackshaft speed somehow. At the time I had been inclined to believe one just couldn't take cuts much heavier than that, but your above example makes me think perhaps a machine of this size should be able to. Chris (999)
Scott You are courteous and your comments were on-topic and welcome. You are correct about the $120 price from SB. I initially wanted to restore my 1941 lathe to "factory" condition, but spending that kind of money on an inferior part didn't make sense. I am thoroughly pleased with my "EBay" belt, and from the sound of it, yours are equal to, or better than that so I wouldn't hesitate pointing folks in your direction. Before I replaced my belt I was looking at going to a v-belt setup. Now I'm quite happy the way it its. Paul R. (1000)
Chris, First, make no mistake, I am NOT an expert on South Bend Lathes. I have never operated one, and have seen precious few. I subscribe to this list primarily because of the similarity between South Bend and Logan Lathes, and comments that apply to one, often apply to the other. So much for the disclaimer g I can't imagine that a 13" South Bend can't handle a heavier cut than that. Certainly, a 1-1/2 HP Motor could do better. You should check what exactly is slipping. Get the Lathe to start slipping, and see what belt stops first. The pulley before that is being driven, the pulley after is not. If the motor is stalling, the motor is shot, or wired wrong. This sounds like the belt is slipping. At first, I thought you might be "single-phasing" a 3-phase motor, judging by your comment about it gradually slowing down, but the belt slipping off indicates (to me) that the belt is slipping. Of course, my first suggestion would be to tighten up the belt adjustment. It also sounds like the alignment may be off a tad. Using a long straight edge, check the sides of the pulleys and make sure they are in line. Hope this gives some ideas, and encouragement. This lathe should DEFINITELY handle a heavier cut than you indicate. Scott Logan (1002)
On this topic of belts I have some questions. Just what kind of cut should I be getting? Currently if I try to take off more than .020" on a piece of aluminum the flat belt starts to slip and then it will jump off. The little 1/3 hp motor hasn't even started to bog down yet. I have one of the nylon belts on my machine now and I am also wondering how tight one should tighten a nylon belt. What kind of cuts are the rest of you getting in aluminum and steel? Jake (1014)
Maybe check your belt alignment. On my nylon belt i can put all the torque I need on it with no problem. It seems when I push the tensioner arm in I may be putting about 10 lbs or so pressure . On my 1947 Model A , 9"x48" SBL The distance from the top of me bare compound to centre cut line is 1.042 " . Now of course this has a tad of wear over the years. Set up right Jake you should be able to do a lot better than the .020 you stated . I'll try later on a piece of scrap and let you know but I bet if I put it in 2nd or 3rd gear I could hog off, (in aluminum) .080 to .100 with no problem . I use a Kennametal Tool holder MT BR-62 NK6 with With T221S inserts and any grade you like. I generally use the 730 inserts for S/S and just leave it on for near everything else. (1015)
Jackie, I will check my belt alignment. I did not understand the following WRT belt alignment: " On my 1947 Model A , 9"x48" SBL The distance from the top of me bare compound to centre cut line is 1.042 "? Jake (1022)
New paragraph, different subject! He was then referring to his compound, and his distance from center line of spindle . I had to read it twice, as well ! (1023)
I checked my belt alignment yesterday. Just using a straight edge they appeared to be pretty close. How much tolerance is allowable? I did find that loosening up the belt some helped cut down on the belt jumping off. Just for grins I checked my distance from the compound to the center axis with my calipers and got @ 1.025". Does anyone know the actual number should be? Jake (1047)
I didn't read the other replies but I'll tell you what I did. I measured the max/min size of the belt that I needed. I then went to the auto parts store and bought an automotive serpentine belt of the proper length. This is one of those belts used on newer cars that snake around and run everything. This is a very strong reinforced flat rubber belt about an inch wide. If it will last for 60,000 miles on a car, how long then will it last on my lathe. The cost was about $20,It worked for Me. Its seamless so I had to pop the spindle to get it on. (1053)
Vee Belt Drive
I have noticed that some folk have wanted to get more "grab" via the belt system. A friend recently dug up an article from Model Engineer's Workshop that describes a Vee belt option for the Southbend. I have scanned the document and uploaded it to the files section under Vee Belt Drive. I hope this is of value. Dennis (1264)
Dennis: I have a 1938 model C with v belt drive, that I am going to sell, it has the catalog number of 415YV even though South Bend says that number is invalid I have seen it in some old literature. I have been thinking about putting it on my 1946 model A to gain one more speed  (1265)
Dennis, Over here on this side of the pond, Australia, I have only ever seen vee belt drives on our Southbend clones - the Hercus (see pic Lathe5.jpg in 'files' folder 'Hercus (clone)'). If you look at the pages 10-11,18-19 20-21 of the Hercus spare parts manual in the same folder, you'll see that the 'flat' cone is listed as spare part. You'll also see the 'vee belt' cone listed as spare part in the Southbend spare parts manual. So, over here, we not only talk different and drive our cars on the opposite side of the road, we drive our lathes different too! Bill (1266)
Dennis: There is a picture of my model C in the archives look under The file titled SB A C. Randy (1267
Randy, Thanks for the feedback. I have posted some pics of mine in "Dennis's Lathe" Regards Dennis (1274)
Bill, I have seen the lathe part, but do not want to imagine the cost. I was given the article and added it for those who wanted a deeper cut. If I was to go that route I would make my own as for me the challenge is making things. At one stage I made some enquiries to Southbend regarding metric conversion gears. The gears would only cost $500US! One of these days I hope to be able to cut my own! I wonder how close the clone is i.e. can the vee pulley of the Hercus fit the Southbend? The part would probably not be as dear. I suppose the Hercus has a slotted cross slide, which I think is a good feature, and plan to make one in the near future. I think that the difference between driving and driving is related to the different hemispheres! Dennis (1275)
Randy, Checked out the pics of your 'c'. I noticed what looks like a spare belt on the headstock. I have thought that it would be good idea, if the time comes to strip the headstock down to replace a worn belt that it would be worth installing one or two extra belts to save, what Ron points out, will be pain-in-the-# @^ excercise! Do you find the spare belt a hindrance at all? I am thinking it will, at least, take away from the asthetics of nice looking piece of machinary. But hey! I am NOT looking forward to stripping my lathe down! Can any of you 'old timers' tell me how long a belt will last? I assume a vee will last about as long as a flat belt. Mine's looks fairly new at the moment. Bill (1276)
Bill: There is only one belt on the lathe, the picture just has a weird reflection. I have not used this lathe I purchased it at the same time as the model A because it went cheap. Randy (1277)
Dennis, I can imagine what the cost would be! But imagine if I had to buy it from the USA. Apart from shipping costs, the Aussie dollar, at the moment only buys $0.52 US. Nearly twice the costs. But wait! what if the Hercus parts ARE interchangeable AND the cost is about the same in Aussie dollars as the SB parts in US dollars. You could buy the same part for half the cost. You lucky buggers! Seriously, I'll make some enquiries locally to see what those vee cones cost. I can take some quick, rough measurements off my lathe. It would interesting just see how close the parts are. I'm sure when F.W. Hercus bought the manufacturing rights off SB back in the '40s he would not have wasted time and energy re-engineering the SB just for the heck of it! If it ain't broke don't fix it! Bill (1278)
I thought about converting to v-belt when I saw an article in HSM or MW (forget which) about making your own conversion, but after I got a heavy-duty synthetic belt, there's no reason to. The belt is stiff so it won't wander under load and the grip is just fine. The flat belt is also a little easier to shift on the cone pulleys than any v-belt would be. I have seen v-belt conversion kits on Ebay, but I'll save my money. Just install a good synthetic belt and forget your troubles. Paul R. (1279)
Endless drive belt
Can an automotive serpentine drive belt be substituted for the leather take apart belt? How does one get the endless type belt over the headstock cone pulley? What/how is the headstock disassembled to do this? Where should I look for a rocker type tool post/tool holders for my 9"? (1429)
Yes, a serp belt can, and has, been used successfully. The spindle and the jackshaft must be removed to install the belt. From what I've heard it works very well. As for the rocker tool post, get rid of it! Buy, beg, borrow, steal, etc. a four way tool block. Or better yet, an Aloris type holder. Frank (1430)
I have not yet had to replace my belt but my dad owns a tack saddle store and They have made several belts for different applications. If you can find a leather repair shop try to get them to make you a skived endless belt and sell you some glue to put it together, they can tell you how. I would not suggest any of the rubber or rubberized belts, it saves a lot of time and money if you use the leather belt tensioned just enough so the if you bind up something it will slip and not tear your lathe apart. Randy (1433)
9 inch belt tensioner
Frank, Is the Upright or pivoting part shaped like a "C" or slightly curved. If so its from a 10K (light) lathe. To my understanding the 10K used both styles. Look back a few months. Peter Merriam posted photos of one. The motor goes in back or inside of the 'C' on a pivot plate. There is a rod that has a knob that goes through the headstock. This is how the belt was tensioned. It won't work for your 9 inch though. The headstock castings are a bit different. Let me know if this is the case. Tom(2393)
If you go to this url and look at bottom of the files list at barmylathe.pdf, in it you will find a page (17) titled 10K horizontal drive unit which shows a parts breakdown that may be helpful. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/files/  If you have trouble getting it, email me off list and I can send you a scan of the page. Peter M(2396)
Neither your description or the picture from the manual looks like what my friend has on his lathe. The pivot rod goes right through the middle of the casting and must be clamped with the afore mentioned clamp to the back "way" directly behind the headstock (right inline with the flat pulleys and belt. We have guessed that the drive was taken off of another lathe (atlas?) or something. My friend is interested in just finding the typical 9 inch motor mount and pivoting horizontal drive, if this is possible. It may be impossible to find one? Anybody know where we could find one? Frank (2402)
Frank, These show up from time to time on E-Bay. I bought one for around $100 complete with tension rods and handle. You could call some of the dealers, Meridian or Plaza. Meridian has a website. Both are good to deal with. Tom (2404)
Frank, There is a belt tension rod and handle assembly on E-bay, item number 1677294837. Between the prices of the two items you would need, I might check out what the dealers want. Also, look on page 17 of the manual posted by Peter. That's the set-up for the 10K I was referring too. Mine is a bit different though. The two piece clevis shown (part 3746) is one piece on mine. Mine has a long rod that goes through the headstock. Look at page 5 horizontal headstock. There is a cutout or slot in the middle of the front face of the headstock. The rod has a smaller diameter at the end with a large knob on the end. Push in to put tension on the belt and slide it down to look it in place. This gives belt tension control from the front of the lathe. Tom
Tom, Thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't looking closely enough at the diagram to see the different variations. Frank (2479)
Frank, Looking at the pictures, is your friends the 10K style or some other brand? Tom (2480)
Frank, Also, look at the plate that the tensioner stand sits on. The 10K (I know guys the 10 K used both styles) has a triangle base with 3 slots for bolts. The 9 inch is square and I think has four. Let me know what you have. I have the 9 inch base(26), standard(28) and cone(10)(see pg 15), but no Shaft pulley(4) or lever and turnbuckle and rods. Tom (2481)
Tom, We have determined that the tensioner is from some other lathe (maybe an Atlas). It isn't like the 10k and it is square and has three bolts that mount it. We also noticed that the casting is more square that that of most South Bends - which seem rounded off on edges (smoother castings). Frank (2485)
Leather belt woes
I have a 9" model A. There's a chirping coming from the flat leather belt which persists and ranges from annoying to deafening. The belt is a few months old and fastened with the typical metal clips. I have softened the belt with leather softener repeatedly (it is soft enough), cleaned the cone pulleys, and used a nonslip spray, all to no avail. There has been only very temporary relief. I long to hear just the sweet humming of my model A, without the clatter of the metal clip, and most of all the chirping of the belt, which has managed to disturb my sense of oneness with the machine. This irritating noise level is undoubtedly responsible for all of my blunders which become scrap metal. I do not want to take apart the headstock to install an endless belt. Can anyone offer a solution? Is there a flat belt that is quiet and can be fastened with a type of glue, such as what is sold by Southbend, but at a more affordable price? Al (2608)
I went to a local belt retailer and asked him what he recommended, He sold me a belt and loaned me glue and a heater to put it on. Maybe you could find someone locally that would do the same for you. (2610)
Al: I bought an appropriate leather strip from a local shoe repair shop for $8 and laced it together as per the SB "How To Run a Lathe" book. On the belt pulley contacting side, the smooth side, after drilling small holes for the lace, I burned grooves in the leather, with a red hot nail of cord dia., such that the lace cord would mostly be even with the leather, for a smooth joining. My original laced belt, done as described, lasted 28 years or so. I used a good grade of heavy nylon cord, I think. You must be careful to keep the joint straight, or the belt will not run true. Also the leather strip, as supplied, must be a straight piece. The shoe repairman said he got the leather at York Pa. from Amish harness shop. Either this or gluing are the best way to go. Rich(2615)
I found a place locally here that makes leather belts with the metal clasp connection. They make then any size you want. One for my SB 9" was about $25.00 Considering a factory one costs over $100 that's a good price. Alex (2617)
The belting is under three bucks a foot at www.mcmaster.com [with whom I have no connection], the glue is available at the hardware store, and the metal clips [if you choose to go that route] are available for $5 including postage from me for as long as the supply lasts--I needed ONE INCH worth of clips and the package quantity covers FOUR FEET. I haven't heard anything negative from the guys I sent them to so I figure they work chuckle the old one hasn't broken yet and it doesn't slip and spit itself off since I started following the excellent advice from JWE about speeds, feeds, etc...although it is getting ready to just disintegrate into a puddle of oily, rotten goo...64 years and it turns to crap. They just don't make 'em like the used to :-) By the way JWE, would you care to share your experience and wisdom regarding parting tools? (2621)
I've installed several leather lathe belts with glued joints. It's not all that hard. There are a number of ways to skive (taper) the end of the belt, some using jigs; but I take the low tech approach of doing it by hand. I find that a razor-sharp wood chisel serves the purpose very nicely. I hold it at a very low angle and "carve" away the leather a little at a time. It helps to use a bit of a slicing action. I generally try to make the skived joint about two or three inches long. Two inches will work very well for a one inch wide belt. Barge cement, available at shoe repair shops, works nicely to join the two ends. Just be sure you use some method to keep the ends straight while the glue sets up. I clamp thin strips of wood over the joint while it cures. Strips of waxed paper between the wood and leather helps to keep the glue from bonding the wood to the leather. According to the old-timers, the smooth side (hair side) of the belt goes next to the pulleys. The rough side faces outward. Orrin (2623)
Brian Slow, careful and lots of oil and preferred carbide insert and if not "T" type cobalt 15%. For the best use the metal lathes t-slotted cross slide and rear tool post which I have to get one of these days. Otherwise bandsaw or hacksaw off the machine works well. JWE (2625)
I made the belt for my SB about 10 years ago by going to the local shoe cobbler and having him cut me a piece of belting the right size. I then sharpened a piece of drill rod about 1/8 dia to make a hole punch. I punched holes in the leather using the pattern shown in the SB manual. I laced the belt together as shown in the book using a length of wax covered flat string that is used at motor shops to tie windings together. It has worked perfectly ever since. There is no noise and nothing to wear. I have used metal joints and don't like to hear them run. Dallas (2627)
That glue is called barge cement you can get it from a shoemaker shop. Its cheap. The trick is sciving the ends so the belt is uniform in thickness when you have glued it. As someone else mentioned the ends have to be jigged when you put them together, so the joint runs straight over the pulleys. I did the one on my model B and have been using it for several years now. The glued belt is definitely soothing to the senses. I find myself going to that machine instead of my Logan 9B28,which is V belt driven and 25 years newer. A person I was making something for once commented on that sound, while watching me work, so its not just my usual dementia. the belt I'm using is 2ply its smooth on both sides. That cement is in a yellow and green package (tube) and has a picture of a bear as a trademark. RC (2635)
Al, Like several others who have posted earlier, I too have skived my own belts. I got my leather belting from Tandy Leather and used Weldwood contact cement. I haven't tried Barge cement and it sounds like it could be a better choice. What I have found is that leather is porous and it takes two coatings of cement to build up sufficient adhesive before putting the splice together. I used a sharp wood plane to skive the ends of the belt. Make your splice about 5 inches long. Make the taper at one end from the flesh side of the belting and the taper on the other end from the hair side. I too use wax paper with blocks of wood and C-clamps to clamp the joint and I allow 24 hours for the cement to cure. An oily belt will not glue. If you are using a new belt, this would not be a problem. Clean your pulleys before putting the belt in place and gluing it together. Make sure that the joint is straight before you clamp it. Also, check to make sure that the drive and driven cone pulleys are aligned so your belt tracks well. Webb (2638)
I just used my belt sander to sand the 2 1/2" taper on both ends of the belt. I then made up a couple of pieces of wood to hold the belt when the glue was applied. Used my stapler to staple the leather back a ways to the wood jig. Used that Barge cement on both sides and then had a couple of those pinch type clamps to hold the wood pieces together until the glue dried... like overnight. Holds surprising well. B.G. (2641)
Al, I had a chirping noise with my belt when I first installed it. I had to move the drive over a hair to get the belt away from the side of the cone pulley. My noise has stopped. Bob (2646)
I like the belt sander trick, it should give that uniformity that makes the belt run smoothly. Also an ideal rough surface for the glue. Another refinement that I forgot to mention is using a short piece of aluminum angle and a piece of flat stock as a clamping jig. This helps align the two ends and eliminates the wax paper. RC (2649)
V-belt change
I just brought my lathe home, and had to cut the v-belt to separate the motor from the lathe, as one of the pulley set screws was sheared off, and I was not prepared to extract it on site. The lathe shipped in 1970, but the belt on it was a SB belt, so I am curious as to whether or not it has ever been replaced. As I looked the situation over I realized I am not entirely sure what is involved in removing the spindle. Am I correct in assuming there are shims in the spindle bearings, and if so, how do I remove the spindle to change the belt, and set it back up again correctly? I searched the archives under a couple topics, but didn't' find this info - has anyone done a write up on it? Scott (4607)
To remove the spindle you loosen the two bolts that hold the bearings tight (you don't need to mess with the shims), remove the split nut on the back side of the spindle (first loosen the screw that clamps it together), then drive the spindle out using a suitable hammer and a block of wood. The trick in replacing the spindle is to use a piece of sewing thread fished through the oiling holes to keep the spring loaded felt oilers out of the way. Use a loop so that you can release one end and pull it out when you are done. The oiler git can be screwed in to keep thread tight. The tailstock can be used to apply pressure on center with the spindle to convince it to go back home. It might be a good idea to replace the felts if they look cruddy. Be careful in sizing the replacement belt. The belt on mine is just a little too big in cross section and I have a tough time slipping the belt over the pulley to change speeds. It wants to jam between the pulley and the casting. Glen (4608)
gorvil wrote: How late did they use the felt oilers? My lathe was built late 60's - 1970. I just spent the afternoon trying to find a replacement. The belt that came it, with South Bend Lathe on it was 56" x 5/8". The replacement I got seems a little deeper, but I thought that might have been due to the age of the old belt. I will see how it fits the pulleys as I get it back together.  Scott(4610)
You can also use a small diameter wire inserted thru the breather hole that is just above the oiler hole on both oilers (at least on my 1957 9A). While the spindle is out, push the felts down enough and insert the wire. Once the spindle is in, pull out the wire. This is what the SB documents I have show for keeping the oiler felts down for re-installing the spindle. Probably wouldn't hurt to flush any grit out of the oil reservoir while the spindle is out and make sure the return holes are clear. Rick K. (4612)
I got the spindle out - the felts look more like those disposable foam paintbrushes you buy for 99 cents, is that what they should look like? They are definitely oil soaked, so it appears they are doing their job. Now my problem is, I cannot get the backgear shaft out. It appears there is a pin in the engagement handle that needs to be driven out, a screw to loosen halfway between the two gears, and then drive it out? I don't seem to be able to drive the pin out of the handle, is it not meant to be driven out? When putting the spindle back in, someone suggested pushing it with the tailstock - based on the way it came out, I think it may need more encouragement than that. Is is not advisable to use the block of wood and mallet on the nose end - perhaps with a face plate on it? Scott (4614)
Scott, Regarding your comment about having been down this road many times, fortunately I can say that I have not. My South Bend 10K has had the same old belt on it since I got it about 10 years ago, and I do not intend to replace it until chunks start falling out! Thanks for the tip regarding the taper pin in the back gear shaft. I'll watch out for that when the time comes.  Mike (4636)
Scott, I take it that you have the 16 (or 8) speed V-Belt setup on your recent purchase. They do make a link V-belt for these. It is a common item in Grizzly etc. From what I understand, they run a bit smoother than the continuous V-belts and you can replace them without disassembling the spindle. They also make a flat belt version too. Grizzly list the V-belts for $20. Tom
Now you tell me :-). I already have everything apart to put a new belt on, but I may try the link belt on the recommendation that it is smoother than the v-belt. Scott (4646)
New belt glued or clipped?
I've been itching to buy a new belt for my 9 in lathe. I have a leather clipped (metal pin) one on now that is just oil soaked. Tried to clean it with cleaner but still has trouble spinning spindle at times. Is it difficult for a novice to put in a endless belt? I'm afraid I'll mess up alignment or something? I really have no complaints on the metal clip making a racket (I don't even notice it) so maybe I should replace with same? Tim Q (5912)
Tim, I have some belt driven equipment and despise the racket, really more the vibration, from alligator style clips. My SB is a 16 spd V belt drive, so I can't comment directly. But one of my Hardinge split beds is an early belt slapper model, and I spliced the endless leather belt myself. Used a very sharp block plane, lined up the belt with the side of the workbench, squared end just at the edge. Clamp with a block of wood back far enough back not to interfere while planning. I eyeballed about a 1:15 slope (~a little less than 3" long for a 3/16" thick belt) and planed it using the sole for a flat reference. Then planed the other side to match. You have a little bit of leeway, if your splice is a little thick. Once the glue dries, you can scrape down the hump (if any) on the flesh side of the belt. Don't overdo it though; it is thinning one side of the spliced ends and may weaken the splice. When you get ready to glue up, have some blocks of wood as long (or longer) than the splice area, and only a little wider so you can use the sides as a straight reference. Thread the belt though the headstock being careful to keep the splice clean. I put a layer of 2 mill clear packing tape on each block to keep the glue from sticking. Be prepared to staple the joint, only one staple is needed, to keep the joint from sliding down the slope as you tighten the clamps. I glued each side, aligned them, and stapled through the middle to one block. Then put on the top block and clamps. A brad or 2 would work. Now here's my problem: first time doing it, I could not find advice on adhesive, except a couple people said use contact cement. I wasn't too keen, but was keen to get using the lathe. It actually worked ok, except I kept forgetting to release the belt tension, and oil seems to soften it. after a "few" months, it separated. Next I tried ITW 5 Min epoxy, and that did not hold worth a darn. then i re cleaned the joint, and used Weldwood (solvent base) contact cement again, and it has held for about 2 years. It is not the best adhesive, because heat and even slight oil do soften it, as I've found. I have seen a recommendation to use hot hide glue (not the liquid stuff) but don't know if that is hooey or not. I have a few pounds around for woodwhacking, so will likely try it next. Also use Flexane castable polyurethane rubber for a number of things here, and if I could think to have a belt ready when next mixing a batch, it does stick to porous items like, well glue, and is tough and flexible. I'm rambling. You can see i believe the splice is a piece of cake, but don't know beans about the best adhesive to glue it up. Maybe the belt source would tell you. My lathe came with a big roll of new leather belt but no manufacturer data or reference to call. Another way to do the splice is to make a block of wood with a long slope, a little wider than the belt. Make sure the slope is not skewed sideways. Align the belt ends sideways, but stagger the ends about 2-1/2" (for a 3" splice), and pin in place to the (longish) block with the end of the belt at the thick end of the block. Be sure the pin(s) are not in the splice area. Pull the whole shebang between a coarse sanding drum (on a drill press, e.g.) and a parallel back stop. Move the backstop in a little each time until the slope is is fully developed on both ends. I prefer a block plane. smt (5913)
I have replaced the leather belt on my 37 workshop 9 inch with a 7 row auto belt from NAPA. And yes, it is a slight pain in the kiester because you have to pull the spindle but I think it is well worth it. It is so quiet. I am planning on doing the same thing with the 41 I am rebuilding. They are not that expensive and I believe it will out last me. I have not had a problem slipping. I generally work mostly in Titanium or 316LVM stainless steel. Tomorrow I am gonna be single pointing some threads in drill rod to make an axle for my motorcycle project. Gerald (5914)
Tim, Do you have the book, "How to Run a Lathe", published by South Bend? The 1942 version is available in reprint form from www.lindsaybks.com . Other earlier and later versions are available from www.bookfinder.com , www.abe.com , or even eBay. I am away from my shop now, but I think the book gives a good description of a neat way to sew the ends of a flat belt together, which would work well for leather or fabric. I don't know much about cleaning leather, but I have heard saddle soap works. Also, did you try belt dressing? A grippy product, available in spray can, from hardware and auto supply stores. I think more answers to your questions about flat leather belts can be found in the archives of this site, or from the Chaski Home Shop Machinist website. For removing and replacing the spindle, and adjusting the headstock bearings, this procedure is described in the Parts and Maintenance manual for your lathe, which used to be available from South Bend. Maybe now from Leblond or from the files or members of this site. Jon (5916)
Make sure the tanned (smooth, skin side that had the fur growing from it) surface of the belt is against the pulley surface. A common mistake is to run the belt inverted. The belt should also have directional arrows embossed on it to show the normal direction od travel. You can replace the belt with an automotive multi-V flat belt. Invert the belt so the V's are away from the pulley. Ken (5917)
Gerald what kind of titanium do you work with and what kind of end use? Robert (5919)
Though I haven't used it yet, "Barge Cement" was recommended as the best adhesive for leather belts ["Barge" is the name of the company]. Apparently you can buy it at shoe repair shops, but I was unable to find it at the 2 or 3 I tried locally. I bought a tube of the cement though an on-line retailer (just search for Barge Cement). I bought my leather belt from a local belting and transmission company, who also skyved it for me - I think the $5 or so extra I paid was well-worth the effort of planning it myself. Jeff (5920)
Has anyone seen/used the synthetic belt ie: on Ebay (looks yellow)? Comes clipped or "welded" for $49.00? Tim Q (5921)
Tim; Baltimore Beltuing sells 4 ply power transmission belting clipped for a lot less than that. I'm using it on my SB9, and my neighbor is using the same material , just wider, on his SB15. Seems to me that the belts for the 9 and the 15 came to about $45 including shipping. This included clipped ends and pins. The belt is yellow/tan and is a 4 ply laminate. http://www.baltimorebelting.com  Will get you there. Usual disclaimer - not owner/employee/stockholder/commissioned.... yadda yadda. They take phone orders and credit cards, quick service. The owner also came to one of our local club meetings with lots of handout, and gave a good talk as well, so I like to support him when I can. Stan (5923)
Without having tried it what about PVA type glue? It seems to stick nearly everything except metal and that it tries. When used on cloth it remains flexible. Phil (5925)
The thing to use on the leather belts is called Barge Cement. The tube is yellow and red and has a picture of a bear on it. I got it at a shoe repair place. Shoe repair places also had lineshafts years ago so the shoemakers kept the belts in shape. I use a piece of steel angle and a piece of flatstock as a clamp to hold the tapered ends together while the stuff dries. The angle gives you alignment of the ends. No staple needed, just 2 C clamps to hold it. RC (5946)
Following is my solution to South Bend flat belts: I don't like the noise of the alligator clips and I'm tired of my hand lacing breaking and/or tearing out the holes. I contacted Texas Belt Mill Supply, Huston TX, 713-926-9421, talked with "Dick" who is supposed to be the flat belt expert. He recommended a Swiss imported belt called "Haliasit". It's a synthetic material, green in color and a little less than 1/8" thick. I purchased a 1" wide x 44" finished length. It came skived on both ends and I had to buy a bottle of their special adhesive for $10.50. Total cost , including the bottle of adhesive was $40.I put it on my 9" SB, applied a liberal amount of their adhesive and clamped overnight between two steel blocks. That was a little over a year ago and it still works beautifully. Very quite and it seems to be impervious to oil. I'm very pleased with it and would highly recommend to anyone. Neil B. (6029)
That sounds like the belt I got from SB in 1978 only the color was black. Oh yah the price from SB in 78 was about what you quoted. JWE (6031)
JWE, how's that belt holding up? Do you still have it? James (6032)
Just fine, now if I could just figure out what I did with the spare one I bought at the same time. I could use it for the machine I bought from Marty. JWE (6033)
When installing leather belt the smooth (skin) side rides on pulleys correct? Does it make much difference which end of the taper, on the pulley side, is the leading edge contacting the pulley for normal forward operation? stirboy (13926)
The belt that was on my lathe has been "notched", a sort of "half lap" joint. The same as carpenters notch the end of a piece of wood to half the thickness to join them together either end to end or at a 90. I wonder if this joint could be "scarfed" ? The end of the belt would be cut from the full thickness down at an angle to the end, maybe about 4" in all. This gives 4" of glue joint that would be the same thickness as the belt. Has anyone seen it done this way? Also, how do you determine the length of the belt? This one seems to be too loose. When I rolled the machine over by hand it slipped ! Mike (13929)
I believe the cut for the glue joint is supposed to be scarfed like you mention and not lapped. If the belt was held under tension and not run for a long period of time it will stretch. Mine did so I made up a new belt, about $6 per foot from McMaster's. I used nylon core leather belting and Alligator lacing. I had to punch pilot holes for the lacing so it would penetrate the core without bending over. The lacing has a bar on one side and the hooks are stiff, on the other side the hooks bend over a little easier so I punched pilot holes with a small awl. The lacing comes 8 ft. in a box, enough to screw up many times which I did so buy extra belt and practice terminating the ends. End result is it wasn't pretty but it works. If you know someone with the 'machine' for the wire hook lacing, go that route. Lacing is about $20 per box so the total cost is around $50. I don't believe the belting and glue available today are the same quality it was when your lathe was made. This is why I went the route I did. JP (13933)
JP wrote: (snip) I don't believe the belting and glue available today are the same quality it was when your lathe was made. Modern leathers come from much younger animals than previously, sent to slaughter before the grain of the leather has become truly fibrous. Different tanning make for different quality also. I think if I was going to use leather, I'd up the thickness by at least 25% over the original. Len (13935)
Presently I am running a 3 ply .125 thick synthetic belt with #7 alligator clips which once the length was correct has worked very well. But I do have a 2"leather belt I'm thinking bout slicing in half and gluing up. I made a jig out of 3/ one inch square lengths of key stock pinned together at one end. then threaded the outer 2 at the opposite end threaded at 90 degrees for vertical adjustment while belt lays flat on center piece of key stock. this way I can cut/sand a joint approx. 10" long. I have experimented with some Armstrong 520 adhesive and was pleased with results. The belt I'm going to use appears to be high grade uniform thickness of .150 . if I do this I'll keep group informed. stirboy  (13955)
Bill, I've used 1" wide leather belt for some number of years with a scarf joint about 2" long cut with a sharp chisel, glued with cyanoacrylate glue and clamped up overnight. Works for the life of the belt. I run the scarf joint to trail on the pulley side. Rob(13959)
Flat belt underneath drive question
I have a SB 11" toolroom which looks basically like a Heavy 10 with underneath drive and taper attachment. When I bought the lathe, the guy I got it from showed me how to work everything and when he moved the lever to tension the flat belt, he basically moved it from the 12 o'clock position to about 9 o'clock and let the weight of the motor tension the belt. He said that he had been having problems with belt-slip and had tried a number of things (like scratching up the stepped pulleys on the spindle , eek! and later covering it with tape to make it sticky). I removed the tape and the oil-soaked belt and replaced it with a modern belt and all has been well. That is until this week when I tried doing some deep parting cuts to make cooling fins on a cylinder. I started having bad belt-slippage problems. Which leads to my question: Is the underneath drive belt tension lever supposed to move over-center to provide a strong tension on the belt, or is it just supposed to release the motor so that gravity tensions the belt? I'm thinking it's maybe supposed to go over-center and that was the source of all the problems. (6878)
I think your right, I believe the lever must move over-center to provide a strong tension on the belt. Try it and I bet your problems will be eliminated. Sounds like you solved your own problem! Neil (6879)
According to SouthBend Bulletin H4 "Keep Your Lathe in Trim" the belt needs to be sufficiently tight that you can only depress it by about 1/2 inch "close to the pulley". My interpretation of that on a heavy 10 is to put belt on the middle pulley and apply a hard shove with the thumb as far down into the casing as you can reach. All seems a bit imprecise although the book does say use the minimum belt tension needed to transmit the required power without slipping. Its worth remembering that, with a sufficiently long belt, the gain in power transmission from increasing tensioning is quite small. I'd assume that an underneath drive belt is long enough not to need to be very tight (I was introduced to a formula relating "sufficient" belt length and pulley size umpteen years ago but my notes got buried years ago). Bench top machine belts are usually too short for full power transmission but given the Vee belt on flat pulley primary drive it hardly matters. Modern leather faced, synthetic or glass fiber backed, belts need more tension to transmit power in the first place and show a significant increase in capacity as tension rises. The mechanism is different. Pure leather belts stretch under drag so increasing the wrap round the pulley to transmit more power. Hence they pretty much only need enough initial tension to stop the thing slipping on start up. Backed belts hardly stretch and rely on radial compression of the leather facing to transmit power so its virtually all done by tension. On mine the belt tension comes up over about the last 50 degrees or so of travel on the handle. With the handle in the centre, straight-up, position the belt is slack enough not to drive and can just about be slipped sideways off a cone pulley step but no way is there enough slack to change speed. Gotta go to the right hand down position for that. Clive (6894)
I hope I understand your problem correctly. - I have a 10k underneath drive lathe, and had to replace the primary belt because after years of storage, the v-belt had acquired a terrific set, causing a lot of vibration. The primary drive tension is adjusted by positioning the motor up and down using the slots on the motor base. The flat belt is disengaged using the drive lever, which on my machine is on the side of the cabinet. To have the belt fully engaged, you must move the lever to the over-center position (180 degree motion of the lever). When it is properly adjusted, you can feel a detent when the lever is in the over-center position. The tension on the flat belt is easily adjusted by a turnbuckle on the right side of the yoke holding the secondary pulleys. The turnbuckle is easily adjusted when the belt is disengaged, and by trial-and-error, you can try the tension by engaging the drive and deflecting the belt with your finger. If you have it set too tight, it's hard to get the lever all the way to the detent, and I suspect it would be easy to overstress the belt by pushing it too hard. With my machine at least, you can set it so the tension on the belt is fine with a light touch on the lever. Harry (6910)
That was the problem. The guy I got it from was using a belt that was too short, and so was in the habit of not locking the flat belt over center because it would have pulled too tightly. C (6911)
Drive belt conversion
I have been considering conversion of my flat belt 9" A to use poly-v belts. I was looking at the pulleys and I think that the spindle pulley could be re-machined to allow 5 steps, using a 9/16 wide poly-v belt. The drive pulley would have to be replaced with a new one. I haven't done any serious calculations yet. (maybe over the holiday) Has anyone done anything like this? It could potentially give 20 speeds, and much better belt performance than the leather belt. Just sort of thinking out loud. Pete (8267)
I dunno maybe I'm weird, but I'm still using the leather belt that came with my lathe [which is grungy with probably 50 years of filth], still waiting for it to fail to install a new one, and taking a .125 cut [.250 OD reduction on a 2" workpiece] at .0063 feed in some fairly tough steel [A2] doesn't give me a problem. IF I use a good cutting tool. Am I just lucky, or what? (8271)
lurch: I am like you I like the leather belt especially since it will stall if one happened to make a mistake. It is easier than replacing broken parts of the lathe. Randy (8273)
I too am a fan of leather belts, at least partially because that is the way SB designed the lathe, and if it was good enough for many generations of professional machinists it ought to be good enough for me. However my heavy 10 with its 43 year old, oil soaked leather belt, can't come close to the kind of cut you describe. I assume you are in back gear, given a HSS (rather than carbide) tool and a 2" workpiece diameter, but I still don't believe I could come close to your numbers. I'm wondering if my view of belt tension is different than others. The book says tighten until it just doesn't slip, but I have been reluctant to try that, given that the oil on the belt changes the equation. If you use the "belt deflection in the middle of the span" test, how much does yours deflect? Actually I have a new leather belt with one end skivved, and a tube of Barge cement. I am just waiting for something to push me over the edge from a reasonably functional lathe to either a better lathe with a nice, new, leather belt or a lathe with no belt, depending on how the fitting and gluing goes. I expect that on the next job where the slipping becomes a nuisance I will knuckle under, cut the old belt off, and have a go at gluing up the new one. Frank (8276)
It's pretty snug--maybe 1/8 or 1`.4 depending on how heavy I lean on it. I would like to get some input from more experienced members on this--sounds like maybe I have it too tight? the way SB designed the lathe, and if it was good enough for many generations of professional machinists it ought to be good enough for me. However my heavy 10 with its 43 year old, oil soaked leather belt, can't come close to the kind of cut you describe. I assume you are in back gear, given a HSS (rather than carbide) tool and a 2" workpiece diameter, but I still don't believe I could come close to your numbers. I'm wondering if my view of belt tension is different than others. The book says tighten until it just doesn't slip, but I have been reluctant to try that, given that the oil on the belt changes the equation. If you use the "belt deflection in the middle of the span" test, how much does yours deflect? of Barge cement. I am just waiting for something to push me over the edge from a reasonably functional lathe to either a better lathe with a nice, new, leather belt or a lathe with no belt, depending on how the fitting and gluing goes. I expect that on the next job where the slipping becomes a nuisance I will knuckle under, cut the old belt off, and have a go at gluing up the new one. (8283)
Lurch. I was told by the gentleman that delivered my SB to tighten the belt just enough so it doesn't slip in the slowest speed when using the back gear and taking a cut. And always let the tension off when not in use. I just took his word for it. Seems to do ok. Bill (8284)
Lurch I was reading in some of the SB books on this and can't remember where I read it, but it said to tighten it till when you push on the top with your finger it will only go 1". Clint (8288)
I have been doing some more research on this. I made some measurements and "IF" I was to reduce each of the larger steps by 1/2 (giving 5 steps total) I would end up with a speed chart that looks like this: Direct Backgear 1270 987 750 566 446 250 189 145 108 86 692 573 410 308 244 134 110 81 59 50 This gives a speed range of 20 speeds, although several are very close together. (this could be changed by slight size adjustment on the pulleys) All are sized to give equal tension on the belt without tensioner adjustment and using the original tension system. In reading the responses to my first post I see that several people have had good results with the flat belts. I have had mixed results, but find that the belt slips or comes off the pulleys more than I like. I'd like to hear more on how they set up the belt, tension it and maintain the belt. I once had a SB 9A that was v-belt drive, and it was a quantum leap better than the flat belt. (IMHO) Much more power to the spindle and the belt stayed on too!! Some of my reasoning for this possible conversion are: 1)I want to get better performance than I currently get with the flat belt. 2)V-belt pulleys are hard to come by, and expensive.( although I may make a set like the article in the latest MW) 3)The poly-v belt is fairly cheap and available 4)Finer adjustment range (better when turning larger diameters) 5)The conversion could be done on the lathe itself ( with a little fiddling) 6)DC or VFD drives are very do-able but expensive ( I live in Canada and every thing is 1.5x $US) I'd appreciate some more comment on this. Pete (8290)
Pete, I have a "nearly new 1946 model 9A" that came with the original flat leather belt. It broke soon after putting into use about 10 years back. I replaced it with a leather belt butt sewn spliced (per Machinery's Handbook) and the performance has been perfect. Perhaps not enough attention has been paid to the pulley crowns. On these lathes the spindle and countershaft pulleys are crowned. Slippage will tend to polish and wear the pulleys, making slip offs more easy. I have never had a slip off, only stalls under too much cutting load. The pulley surfaces are still as machined and not polished. Running the finger nail over the surface you can feel the tool ridges easily. RichD (8292)
Pete, I've long thought that a multi-v belt would be an excellent choice for a modern flat-belt alternative. No experience with it, but it just makes sense. Regular v-belts take up too much radial space especially when you have to change steps. Tension could probably be less on a multi-v belt so the CI spindle bearings would last longer. I've kept a project on the "todo" list to make a multi-v replacement if I ever found another set of cone pulleys that I could machine. I wouldn't want to use the only ones I have. If anybody has any spares let me know... On the down-side, are there any issues with crud getting stuck in the corners of the grooves? Seems like it might be hard to keep clean, but then again, neatness counts! I thought I recalled someone on the list is running a multi-v belt (inside out?) on his stock cone pulleys. I'm currently running a 1/8" thick, 1" wide(?) synthetic continuous flat belt and am pretty happy with it. I was using a thinner belt before and it would creep off the pulley when strained. Doesn't happen with the thicker belt. I'm also running a VFD and inverter-duty motor so I can get a pretty good speed range. Paul R. (8293)
If you are getting poor performance from your flat belt, either it's in poor condition or it isn't adjusted correctly. I recently saw a 13" Southbend take a 1/2" cut in one pass (brought a piece of CRS from 1-3/8" dia to 3/8" dia). This was with a flat belt. If you check the original SB manual, they tell you the maximum cut for each size lathe. I believe it was 1/2" for the 13" 7/16" for the 11" 3/8" for the 10", etc. I'd make sure that I had everything working correctly on my lathe before I started hacking it up. For more speeds, I'd go with a VFD. c (8295)
Texalon flat belt
My Heavy Ten lathe came with a 1/16" thick X 1-!/4" wide flat belt South Bend calls a Texalon flat belt. Its a combination of textile and extruded Nylon that has skived ends and glued. My belt has been cut and rejoined a couple of times and almost looks like its heat bonded. SB wants over $100 for one plus special cement. I checked all the archives and found no reference. Anybody know about these belts. I wonder if I can skive it and cement with Gorilla glue on maybe heat bond. Walt (9240)
Tony Griffiths on his EXCELLENT lathe resource site http://www.lathes.co.uk/ offers flat belting made up to custom size. Whether he will export to the US, I couldn't say, be he gives very good fast service. Ordering made up doea mean some dismantling to fit, but he also offers joinable balata belting and the joining clips. If SB users have not seen this site, I can recommend the vast amount of info re SB lathes. Len (9241)
The best belts that I have found are an off yellow color with metal interlocking ends (like fingers and you just stick a piece of 12 gauge wire through both). They NEVER wear out. They are made to length by "Terry Bearings" in St Petersburg FL. I have no idea of what material they are made from (and I really don't care). I have them made to length and the cost is about 16.00 each. Yes, they go click -click but they do not wear the sheaves. Best I have ever found. (9242)
Forget about South Bend and Texalon belts. We just went over this topic about 10 days ago. Check my post (post 9076 from 2-3-03) which will tell you where to get high quality genuine leather belts for about $34.00. Perk (9244)
www.mcmaster.com has 1-1/4"x3/16" flat leather belts for less than $6.00/ft. many sizes and clipper laces (other types of belts belts too) hope this helps all! I see some paying almost $40.00 on ebay (9246)
Belt tentioner
I am studying how to install the belt tensioner on my 9A. it came with the lever connected to the headstock and the linkage connected to the motor mount/pulley assembly. oddly it had a bent hinge pin. I am making a new pin and figured that if I could see what an original looked like, it would be a little better. The ARMY manual shows the lever as being on the motor mount and the linkage connected to the lathe. is there a preference ? it does not seem like a big deal, but is there a reason why one location is better than another? Dave (11180)
Dave, I just went thru this. The headstock is the correct location for the lever. I think the Army manual is wrong, another page in the same manual shows it on the headstock. Also I think that reaching over the lathe would be a bit inconvenient. If you could make it work. I couldn't. Larry (11182)
All 4 if the 9A's I've owned had the handle on the headstock. I've seen several 10K's with the handle on the drive side. This may be the cause of some of the confusion. Pete (11183)
Odd. I did find another page in the manual that had them reversed. One I'm not excited about is that the motor is only 1/4 hp. But by the time I get it all together and running, I may have run across either a bigger single phase or have put together a phase converter. Dave (11185)
Dave, There are plenty of reasonably good illustrations of the tensioner on Tony Griffith's site in the SB section. http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/page3.html Len (11187)
Flat belt or VBelt pulley
As mentioned the other day, I'm now an owner of my first SouthBend, and among all the things I don't know about this machines, the thing I know the least about is the belt ! So 1. Where does a guy get more ? (I'm SURE I need a new one ) 2. How does he join it ? 3. Is there a VBelt pulley available ? Alan (11432)
Any good leather supply or tack store (i.e. horse accessories) should be able to get you belt stock. The most common way to join the belt is with alligator clamps, they look like two halves of a hinge with teeth. These are crimped on to the ends of the belt and a pin is run through to join the hinge. The nice thing about this setup is it's quick and you can easily remove the belt for moving etc. The down side is the belt will "clack, clack, clack" as the clips go over the pulleys. The best method is to glue or lace it together. This is where How To Run A Lathe instructions than I could ever hope to give :-) The later 10" lathes came with v-belt drive, unfortunately I don't think they are compatible with the 9". Norman Eastwood published an article in the Dec 2000 issue of Model Engineers' Workshop on fitting a v-belt drive to a 9" (it may be in the SB archives, I don't remember). It requires some castings be made and some modifications to the belt tension lever, but it looks like a well thought out project. Of course the current problem being you need the lathe running to make the pulleys :-( A third suggestion would be a synthetic belt. I've never used one but reports are they work great and last forever, a little higher priced than leather though. Sorry for the long post, but I tend to ramble on occasion. Jeff (11434)
Look in the Files section after my last post. See Alligator Lacing and Vee Belt Drive. Jeff (11435)
First place to look is McMaster Carr. they have detail of types, different materials and the stuff to join them. even if you don't buy there, you can get the pictures and ideas. home brew are to lace them or to lap/glue them. Dave (11439)
Can you suggest a synthetic belt and where does one get one? Frank (11442)
Tony Griffiths has them in UK if necessary. Go to www.lathes.co.uk for ordering info. I use one of his and it's first class, with hardly any "tick" at all from the included alligator clip. He can also supply endless synthetics, to order, with no tick at all. Len Smith Flat belt or VBelt pulley - Newbie questions Can you suggest a synthetic belt and where does one get one? Frank (11443)
Cincinnati transmission is one place, info in the faq. I have also gotten it locally through motion industries/berry bearing. McMaster Carr. dennis(11444)
Try http://www.baltimorebelting.com About $60 for my belt, which included a Qt can of contact cement. Mark (11466)
You can substitute an automotive multi-V belt for a 1" wide leather belt. Just run it upside-down. Measure the length and visit your auto parts store. Leather is available from tack shops (saddles related horse stuff), or IIRC Scott Logan www.loganact.com  can supply leather in any length. Note that the smooth side (tanned side, the side that the fur was growing from) of the belt *must* be in contact with the pulley surface. You can skive and glue it, use a "clipper" device, or lace it. See "How to Run a Lathe". Not sure, but an upside-down multi-V belt works on flat pulleys. Just curious do you plan on painting your South Bend lathe "Shoptask yellow" so they match? Ken (11480)
Installing a belt
1. Find the size I need for my 10" heavy underdrive. 2. Order from McMaster-Carr. 3. Stop by the shoe repair shop in my town to get glue. 4. Then what? Do I have to cut/splice the belt specially? (at an angle to get more glue coverage). Jason (13321)
That is exactly correct, you taper the joint from one end to the other (it shows this in How to Run a Lathe). I did it the easy way (but more pricey) - I bought the composite belt from SB. for the composite belt there are two glues, one for the leather to leather part of the joint, and one for the plastic (?) to plastic part By the way, I have both types of glue for the composite belts. If anyone out there needs the two glues, let me know and you can have them for the cost of the postage. John (13322)
Jason I'm playing with a belt for my 9" underdrive. What material is your belt? What kind of glue are you using? I have a serpentine belt from a F150 V8 The joint is holding for now but it could be better It is a good positive drive and the belts are free from the auto recyclers. I just have to perfect the joint. Max (13323)
Thanks for the glue offer, I might take you up on it! and to the other guy, my belt is leather, with a black/clear side, I have no idea how they installed it, because I can't see where the splice is for the black/clear side, but I do see the splice for the leather side. I'm not joking, honest it's really weird how whoever did this. Jason (13328)
I ordered a belt from Baltimore Belting, http://www.baltimorebelting.com  I provided the width of the "flat" on the cone pulley and the released and tight lengths around the cone pulleys. They provided a belt, pre-cut in layers, and glue. Installed with no problems and works the same way - no problems. Approx $65 total, including shipping. Mark (13333)
Did you check the faq? Did you search the archive? It's been well covered. dennis (13334)
Dennis, I'm an "old hand" at this internet thing, I did all the searching before I posted a question. Jason (13335)
Jason- so if you read the faq section about the splicing belts, what part isn't clear? if something is not clear, please tell us so we can correct the faq for next person... "Splicing Belts ... Skiving and Gluing: Each end of the belt is skived (scarfed) at complimentary compound angles to generate a larger gluing surface. The easiest way to accomplish this is with a block of wood dadoed to accept each end of the belt side by side. The belt needs to have a twist put in it to make the splice on the proper sides. Use another piece of wood to clamp the leather. Using a sander or VERY sharp plane to taper the block and leather. Common scarf angles are approximately 8:1 and a skew angle of 30 degrees. This creates a triangular taper that when glued is is almost as strong as the original belt. Barge cement is used to glue the belt." (13336)
Dennis, Yes actually, it would probably be better to place the FAQ in the files section, and not the links section. When one sees a hyperlink labeled "links" one assumes that those links are off-site, as in not relating to the yahoo south bend lathe group. So I didn't bother looking at the "links" hyperlink, I simply did a search in the broadest of terms... belts. That turned up many results, but after the fifth page of going through these posts, none were concerning my the 10" underdrive. Incidentally, I stopped by my local library today, they were having a book sale... and found a 1940 manual of "How to Run a Lathe" and you wouldn't believe the price I paid for it... 25 cents. Upon looking at the original price of the book, on the first page, it read "25 cents" Isn't that funny? It's all about inflation over the years, and depreciation over the years! Jason (13341)
You go about installing a belt by buying a replacement with the link. I buy them for 15.00 and they run FOREVER. Unless you are a total restoration purist or find the click click click offensive I can see no logical reason for a glued together oem style belt. They are available to your exact size requirements. (13343)
Robert, What belts!?! I can't stop looking at all the classic bike photos! I'll highly consider that site for my belt fix, definitely worth a try, and I do not like that click... clink sound either, although I was a machinist during the early 1900's in a former life.  Jason (13345)
Jason, if you live near a real live shoe repairman, or in that part of the country that still has saddle shops, both of these places would be able to sell you Barge Cement and scarf cut the belt. I have a place up the street that charged me $5.00, and was even familiar with why I wanted it. Bill (13353)
Bill, you are kidding me, that was a really cheap price, and very nice of him. My town's real live shoe guy has old tools and everything, he sells the red-wing brand shoes. Though I never visited the place, I bet you $5 that he would offer the same services, probably the same price too. His shop is about four or five blocks from me. I never heard of Barge cement until I joined this group! thanks for all the info everyone, I've got a lot of posts today, because I'm under the weather, and I'm trying to find some good deals on some broken toy soldiers on eBay to fix up, I don't normally get to hang out on the web this much as I have today, Jason (13356)
Long term belt care
A) What is a good method for cleaning belts? B) Is a belt dressing recommended (1-beeswax+1-rosin+1-turpentine)? C) What is the recommended application of Neat's-Foot Oil? I have a new belt from MCS and would like to keep it in top shape as they are not cheap. The belt seems to be "dry" and not very flexible. Paul (14083)
Here in the UK there are proprietary belt dressing "sticks" available. These are cardboard tubes with a solid dressing inside, the tube wears away as the dressing is applied. I know someone who uses this material, so I'll try to find out some details. On another list I saw a reference to Corliss steam engines, and looking them up I found this page which includes some mention of leather belts (scroll to bottom). Not much use I'm afraid, but maybe interesting! http://www.geocities.com/espee9164/corliss.html  Len (14088)
The new leather belts are not very flexible, that's why the spec a minimum pulley diameter. The Neats-Foot oil will soften it and preserve it (keeps the water out). A brass brush (suede brush) cleans debris off the belt. The frequency of oiling will depend on the environment and initial dryness of the belt. Check it every month and apply oil to keep the belt pliable only if necessary, after a few application it will be needed less often. Rub it in good so there isn't a greasy feel to the leather. The neat's-foot oil can be bought at a local grain store selling horse feed or at a tack shop, it's used on leather bridles. JP (14102)
I finished my re-belting project and was very pleased with how smooth/quiet the headstock run. I ended up with 2 7" long splices and clamped and glued with Armstrong 520 adhesive which so far seems to work fine. I was afraid my alligator clipped syn. belt would pull apart half way through a how soon job. Stirboy (14104)
First, let me disclaim ANY knowledge of the "care of leather" subject before I throw any gasoline on this fire. Oklahoma is cowboy country and I ain't one but one happened to be there when I was about to use neatsfoot oil to soften up the leather seat on a 1920's vintage typist's chair I was trying to restore for my office. The reaction was about what I would expect had I been burning a flag, denouncing motherhood and urinating on the apple pie. The lecture I got had to do with neatsfoot oil is to be used only on new leather. Repeated application will degrade and eventually destroy the leather. "Saddle soap" is the preferred method for maintaining leather after the initial oil treatment. After the furor, the guy insisted on taking the chair home where it would be safe from the likes of me. He brought it back about ten years ago with the formerly "so dry and hard it would crack if you touched it" leather seat now soft and pliable. It has been in daily use with an "whenever I think about it" cleaning with saddle soap. It has suffered no further degradation and has molded itself to my chubby backside quite nicely. Long story, short point: Is neatsfoot oil really what you should use?? WDSmith (14107)
In my business we use a mixture of lanolin and neat's-foot oil as a dressing for leather covered books. Some of the leather is very old (like 3-400 years) and this dressing keeps the hinges pliable. So you certainly can put neat's-foot oil on old leather. (But I wouldn't want to sit on it unless I want to buy a new pair of trousers each time!) I recently replaced the leather belt on my 10K with a new one, using alligator clips (I like the ker-chunk) and it works just fine and I see no reason to oil it to soften it. It seems plenty pliable. What have others done with new belts? Will neatsfoot oil lengthen the belt's life? Does it stretch it any? Frank (14110)
I also have no experience with leather drive belts, but i am familiar with leather care. I take part in US Civil War reenacting, and neatsfoot oil is okay to initially treat leather, but it is not recommended for regular applications. supposedly it will cause the leather to continue to soften to the point it starts degrading. the museum curators say they can tell when leather gear has been regularly treated with neatsfoot oil as it will almost fall apart in your hands. Lexol seems to be the treatment of choice (for boots, belts, holsters, saddlebags, saddles, etc.), and it is recommended to apply it sparingly and wipe off any excess. otherwise it attracts dirt and dust and will cause the leather to deteriorate. Lexol is usually available at places that sell saddles and tack. I would think in a metal-working shop you could get by with one treatment a year. in a wood-working shop with a lot of dry dust, you would probably need to use it a little more often. andy b. (14119)
Motor drive v-belt question
I need a new V belt for my SB heavy 10". I ordered a 5/8" wide v- belt from a lawn equipment dealer, but it doesn't seem to fit right. It seems to he a hair to narrow such that the bottom of the v contacts the bottom of the pulley groove. Has anyone tried ordering the original belt from LeBlond? How much was it? Does anyone know where else I can find the proper belt. I live in a suburban area, so all the automotive shop are chains (PepBoy's, etc.) and don't know their head from their you know what. If anyone knows a good place to get belts online please let me know. Zach (14176)
I am running a DAYCO L542...16RL1065.... seems to work fine.. came from a local "farm supply" store. stirboy cost was probably in the $6/7 range --- ztarum (14178)
There should be a number on the old belt like 5B430 This would be a B size 43 inch belt. Not sure what specific size you need but it is a B width (5/8"). This way you don't need to depend on the sales clerk. Get a name brand like Gates, they will cost about $15 or $20 but will last and grip well. You can order them online from MSC or McMaster, I think MSC might have a minimum order requirement. I got mine from the local Auto Supply store. Snowmobiles use heavy belts also. JP (14181)
That's a 42 inch, size B belt, 5/8" I just picked a number at random because I couldn't remember what size mine was in my last post. Stay away from offshore belts! JP (14190)
V belt Question
I'm a new 9" owner. I need to change my V belt on the headstock. My question is how do you disassemble the headstock, what to do I need to watch out for, and how do I put it back together. What I need is a step by step procedure (I'm an old aircraft mech and that's what I'm use to). Does anyone have such a procedure or know where I can get one? Thanks for your time and I appreciate any and all help. I purchased my lathe though Ebay. If you'd like to look at it, the page will still be available for a few more days at the following link. Tim (14179)
Beautiful machine, there, Tim, and an excellent bargain, assuming good condition. However, are you certain it's a V-belt? My software won't let me zoom just yet, but by rights the headstock should be a flat-belt (unless Pete had it in Canada for a while, LOL) Johnny (14180)
SB Lathe Lubrication Chart (Chart 6514) has a short piece on spindle removal. I don't know if this chart is still available from SB (Le Blond), but you could find out from Rose. I do know that getting the spindle out is just the first step. The back gear shaft/assembly has to come off too, in order to get a solid, continuous belt back on (flat or V) without splicing. Doing that requires removing both tapered pins from the back gear shaft. This procedure is NOT explained in the above Chart. I was unable to get one of the taper pins out, and so could not put on a continuous V-belt. I'd already heard of the adjustable link belt type of belt and so went in search of it. Found two brands, Power Twist by Fenner Drives and Accu-Link by Jason Industrial. I'm running the Accu-Link "B" sized belt, nominally 5/8" width. However, these belts are the "B" size, which is larger than what the SB V-belts are: "L" series. The belt house I was working with assured me both brands only made "B" sized link belts, so I had no choice but to try it. It works. The belt rides high, half out of the V grooves, but seems to drive just fine. Can't tell whether its quieter or smoother than a rubber V belt as I'd only just switched in the V-belt pulleys from flat belt, so never ran it with the rubber V belt. But the link belts are supposed to reduce vibration. Short version: if you use a link belt, you don't have to take the spindle out. May have the advantage of running smoother as well. Rick (14182)
I will back Rick up on this as I have been running the power twist type on our Enco 12x36 for about four years now since the OEM V belts failed and I did not want to strip it down to replace them. These belts will last some 3 to 4 times longer than regular V belts will especially if there is a lot of oil flying around. JWE (14187)
I got more questions on these 'twist belts'. Where do you buy one? What size? Tim (14188)
McMaster-Carr, H.F. and almost any other tooling and/or belt supplier I can think of. Get the "B" size. JWE (14189)
IF you could get the "L" size, that would be the right size. My understanding from the belt house I bought from, they only make them in the "B" size. So, if anyone actually knows where to get one in the "L" size, please let me know. I got mine from McGuire Bearing, in Portland, OR. If you have a major belt/bearing supplier in your area, try them (several of the smaller retailers around here get their stock from McGuire), if for some reason you don't want to go to McMaster for online ordering. I didn't try H.F. I did find the 1/2" size at WoodCrafters, a specialty woodworking tool house in Portland. They're used for replacement belts on woodworking tools. I got a 6 ft section, and had more than a foot left over. I think this is the shortest they sell it in. Rick (14191)
Is this what you guys are talking about?? http://www.grainger.com/ I no longer have assess to Grainger but knew they handle about everything so I ran a search and this came up. This is the 5/8 size and they also have it in 1/2 inch as well. Tim (14194)
By the way, this is called POWERTWIST, Grainger Part# 5A548, on page 256 of their catalog for those who might be interested and have a Grainger account. Comes in 6 foot length. $38.40 http://www.grainger.com Tim (14195)
I had a 9" SB with a V belt,4 step pulley on the spindle. Vastly superior to the 3 speed flat belt. I needed a new belt and bought a replacement right here in this small town. Removing the spindle to replace the belt gives you a chance to inspect the spindle and bearing areas, and clean and adjust the thrust ring, etc. It is an easy job. You couldn't give me one of those link belt things. And, I consider them a safety hazard, too. Don't hesitate to drive the spindle out. Changing the belt is no more than a 2 hour job. I liked that V belt scheme so well, I am toying with making/altering the pulleys on one of my 10" machines. Harold(14197)
That would be the PowerTwist brand of it, yes. I notice their specs say 5/8" and includes the belt type as: B(5L). If this belt is fairly true to sizing and nominal tolerances, it may fit nicely. The Accu-Link brand belt I got also calls itself out as 5/8" but measures at 0.670", which is why it doesn't fully engage in the "L" series South Bend Vee pulleys. I have a PowerTwist A(4L) belt (tried it first, didn't fit, too small), that calls itself out at 1/2". It measures 0.510". So... If PowerTwist belts are more accurately sized than Accu-Link, the PowerTwist belt may fit much better. Interesting also, to me at least, is that a month ago when I looked at Graingers, they didn't have PowerTwist, but did have three other brands including Accu-Link. Now I cannot find Accu-Link on their site or the other two brands. Rick (14201)
Flat belt questions
I am just getting my heavy 10" running. It has a synthetic flat belt that is glued into one piece. when I first tried to engage the belt tension lever the belt instantly walked off the bottom pulley. I did some checking and found that the the two pulleys were not aligned. So I moved the bottom pulley over to line up with the top pulley. Now if I am very careful engaging the belt tension lever the belt will stay on. Otherwise I have to engage the tension lever first then start the motor. Am I correct in assuming that I should be able to leave the motor running and engage the spindle by tensioning the belt? I had to move the bottom pulley over about 3/8". Could my problem be that the belt took a set from being run by the previous owner with the pulleys out of align? (14311)
Always turn the power off when moving the belt from one step to another. Shift the belt to the desired speed then engage the tension lever then turn on power. Make sure the step pulleys are in perfect alignment or the belt will not ride correctly. Bill (14312)
You have crowned pulleys so they should not be shifted or engaged with the motor running, flat pulleys can be shifted with the motor running. Check your alignment and parallelism, with crowned pulleys and a flat belt in good shape the belt should automatically go to the center of the pulley when run. Make sure the idler shaft is parallel to the bed both vertically and front to back. If your belt is stretched unevenly it won't ride on the pulleys correctly and you should consider changing it. It should measure 61.5" in length. Leather belts with a nylon core are about $6/ft from McMasters, I personally prefer these over all synthetic. You can use metal lacing or glue them. JP (14313)
The parallel lacing (14314)
Would not using a metal lace create a problem pulley along with some noise? Tony (14315)
If you are talking about the the metal gripper clips, ( a mating set of clips that pierce the belt and are joined by a piece of hard wire running through their overlapping openings) they create a ticking sound as they run across the flat pulleys. this is not usually troublesome or objectionable - it's just a fact of life with belts joined this way. many flat belts in industry are/were joined this way because it is quick to install, and fairly easy to remove the belt and then re-connect it. Belt lacing is typically a crisscross pattern of threading the flexible lacing through a pattern of holes in both ends of the belt to secure them together. I have not seen this done with metal lacing material. (14320)
JP Both you and Bill Collins say not to move the belt with the motor is running. I understand that you can't (or shouldn't) try to move the belt between steps with tension on the belt, whether the motor is running or not, but is there a reason not to relieve belt tension (using the tensioning lever), move the belt, and then re-engage belt tension, all with the motor running? That is the way I was taught by an older machinist, perhaps a holdover from line shaft days, and it seems to cause no problem on my heavy 10" with a skivved and glued leather belt. Frank (14321)
Do you really want to risk getting your fingers caught between the belt and a moving pulley? The self alignment of the crowned pulley only goes so far. Engaging tension with the motor running makes the belt act like a clutch and can cause premature wear in small areas. With clean pulleys and belt, proper alignment, small loading and a slow engagement you may not have a problem. During the line shaft days the main shaft ran continuously and had flat pulleys. Flat pulleys are typically larger and use less tension than the crowned ones for the same load. Flat pulleys are designed for 'shifting gears', crowned pulleys are not. I would imagine someone who was used to the old method just continued that way not considering the difference. JP (14322)
Using the belt as a clutch can lead to areas of uneven friction which may not be visible on a leather belt. The poor finish on the cut may be considered to be dull tool or loose belt which would not necessarily be the case. You would be polishing small areas of the belt each time you engage it with the motor running. Besides that, having a digit thumping between the belt and pulley makes for a lousy finish also. JP (14323)
Frank My motor is always running when I engage the belt. Clint (14327)
JP wrote: (snip) During the line shaft days the main shaft ran continuously and had flat pulleys. Flat pulleys are typically larger and use less tension than the crowned ones for the same load. Flat pulleys are designed for 'shifting gears', crowned pulleys are not. I would imagine someone who was used to the old method just continued that way not considering the difference. AND line shaft pulleys were shifted with big levers, not hands. Also, quite often, a pulley change involved the belt being shifted to a free wheeling pulley first until the 'speed' pulley change was completed, sort of "de-clutching". Len (14329)
9" 4-step belt question
What would be the optimum V-Belt for the 4 step pulley for the 9" Model A? The Gates b-52 seems to be the required option, however a bit snug for speed changes. (14929)
I believe the SB 9 Vee belts are "L" series, rather than "B" series. 5/8" top width, but lightly thinner section. The SB parts list I have shows 5/8" belts in lengths from 38" to 55". I'm using a "B" section belt on mine, but its one of the adjustable twist-link belts. Its tight in the Vees, but seems to work okay. Reason for using the wider belt is the twist-link belts aren't made in the "L" series width. Rick (14931)
I just replaced mine, A gates 5L470 is the correct one, 5/8wide and 47 inches long go to Napa auto parts they have them $15.00. Fritz (14935)
Replacement flat belt for heavy 10
My heavy 10 is in need of a replacement flat belt, a fellow member informed me via email that McMaster-Carr sells them, however it seems that the selection is a bit wider than I'd anticipated. I'd prefer not to replace it with a lace-up or crimp together belt, even if that means a lot more work to install it - my headstock bearings need adjustment anyway and I've torn up 2 of these belts in 4 years. Apparently the NBR Rubber is the only type available in an endless belt. Is this a good choice or should I revert to an lace-up belt of a different material (Leather, urethane, etc...) (16744)
I have been using McMaster's NBR belt now for about 10 years. It's great. Their stock # is 2296K3, for $2.32/ft. They will join it for you for a small fee. RZ (16747)
The belt on the heavy 10 feeds through the bed and headstock casting. I don't see how an endless belt can be installed. The leather bonded to a nylon core can be glued as well as laced. The Southbend replacement belt is this type. You will need 2 adhesives, 1 for the nylon core and another for the leather. McMasters sells the adhesive as well and it is less costly than from LeBlond. JP (16750)
I replace my flat belt with one from McMaster Carr about 7 years ago. DO NOT join the belt until you have passed it over the head stock pulley cones and under and back up the the head stock. Once joined (if you have a cabinet model lathe) you won't be able to attach the belt. After passing the belt around you glue it per directions. Its no big deal. Eric (16752)
LeBlond Belt
After letting the LeBlond belt sit, after it was glued for 8 hours, and trying to adjust the tension screw which almost ran out of space, to reduce the distance from the spindle to the drive pulley the lathe was tested. The garage temperature was 38 degrees, the belt separated. No damage was done to the belt, can it be re-gluded and should I put a heat lamp on it to help the curing process. If one were to use the leather glue on a leather belt does it have to be laced also. Thinking of this as a backup incase. Don't want to spend the $100 plus for a new LeBlond belt. Tried the directions given to MSC for their belt but couldn't get there. Vinnie (16799)
Clean of the old adhesive as best you can. Heat will definitely be required. If the belt is a composite belt (plastic core) you have to glue each part separately and with different glue. Clamping the joint while it cures is very helpful also. If the belt is too long you can scarf it back some and start with a clean joint. Heat and clamping pressure should do the trick. JP (16800)
Length of strap in 13"
I would like to know what is the normal length for a 13" 1 hp lathe, i cant ''bend'' the strap because it is too short so ill have to change it. (17028)
If you are referring to the leather belt it is 61.5 inches finished. You can get info in the files section under SouthbendlatheFAQ.html  I hope that is what you want. JP (17029)
Don't forget to undo the belt tension adjuster before Trying a new belt. I think its 7/8 inch and located near the door handle (turned from the underside). You can probably guess why I know this. I had a spare belt lying around and when the day came I cursed myself for ordering it too short, almost pitched it until it hit me as to what I had done. Roger (17053)
V Belt Replacement
Is there an openable V belt made that I could use to replace the spindle V-Belt on my back-drive 9 inch SB? The present, solid belt is still working, but starting to unravel. When it fails I do not want to have to pull the spindle to replace it. I would much prefer a belt that can be opened and reconnected. Steve (17410)
There, McMaster Carr offers two possible choices. They are the "Twist-Lock" and "Adjust-A-Link" belts. These are considerably more expensive that regular belts but will do what you want. I Think there is a link to their website in the "Links" section. Webb (17411)
There is a company that sells round belts the also make they also make the Power Twist Plus. www.Fennerindustrial.com. Stephen (17416)
The belt size specified for the SB9, is a bit thinner (L) than what is available (B) in Power Twist or Adjust-Link, but either will work. You need the 5/8" (5) size belt, not the 1/2" (4). I went thru all this months back, tried the size 4 Power Twist, but it slips. The 5 size belt of both brands doesn't fit all the way in the Vees, but it transmits enough power. I've had the Vee belt slit some, but maybe that's good, since if it didn't slip something else might have to give. These are common items and can be found in a lot of belt houses, if you're in any kind of larger metro area, or they can order them. Rick (17423)
Question on Belt Drives
Looking for some opinions on this. Do you guys feel the V-belt drive headstocks perform significantly better than the flat belt headstocks? I currently have a flat belt headstock which occasionally slips during operations. I've tightened it about as much as I'm comfortable with. I've heard V-belts don't slip, but they have the downside of being difficult to change. Normally this wouldn't be big deal but it seems lately I've had that flat belt apart more than it's been together. And as a result I have come to appreciate that metal alligator joint in it. Since I'm completely slipping under load under certain conditions Id bet I'm losing some power under a lot of conditions. (17812)
Could be your belt has absorbed a certain amount of oil. Degrease it and apply some belt dressing that is designed to stop the slippage. Used this when I was in High school many years ago. Bruce At 08:02 AM 3/18/2004 -0500, you wrote: Looking for some opinions on this. Do you guys feel the V-belt drive headstocks perform significantly better than the flat belt headstocks? I currently have a flat belt headstock which occasionally slips during operations. I've tightened it about as much as I'm comfortable with. I've heard V-belts don't slip, but they have the downside of being difficult to change. Normally this wouldn't be big deal but it seems lately I've had that flat belt apart more than it's been together. And as a result I have come to appreciate that metal alligator joint in it. Since I'm completely slipping under load under certain conditions Id bet I'm losing some power under a lot of conditions. Webb (17813)
V-belts don't slip much. There has been debate about whether that is a good thing, or at least about circumstances where it isn't, such as if the belt doesn't slip, something else might "give" and possibly break. I got tired of the flat belt slipping and converted to V-belt. I'm extremely happy with it. I couldn't get the countershaft out, so could not use a continuous belt had to go to the link-belt type. I'm extremely happy with that as well. Finding the V-belt pulleys can take a while. They come up now and then on eBay. Took me about a year, but I'm glad I persevered. Rick (17815)
How would you recommend I degrease? My belt is old as the hills and all leather. That's one of the reasons I don't want to tighten it anymore. I need a new one but would like to put it off if I can. Money is always an issue with my hobbies.  (17816)
Sounds to me as if you have the slick side of the belt to the pulleys or the belt is to hard and oily to grip good. A flat belt works just as good as a V belt and will last many times longer and is much easier to change when worn. JWE (17817)
In the Dec2002/Jan2003 issue of the Machinist's Workshop there is an article by John W. Foster on Improving the Performance of the 9" and 10" South Bend Lathes. In it he goes through the procedure of changing over to a V belt drive. He made his own pulleys but as has already been suggested you can look for one to come up for sale. Foster also goes over an alternative belt in place of the leather one. He covers a few other neat things but the conversion is the main thrust of the article. I would first degrease your belt and make sure you have the right side against the pulley. You may find that is your only problem. As I have never degreased a belt I do not know what is used. I am sure that someone will chime in with the solution (pun intended) or, you can contact an industrial belt supplier. They will tell you what is needed and how to go about it. Fred (17818)
The belt isn't in great shape to be sure. I have put the suede (rough) side in towards the pulleys. That seemed to match the crown that the belt had developed over time. But the rough side just isn't very rough anymore. It almost looks like the tanned side. Maybe it is just time to bite the bullet and get a new one. The pulley's have a nice coating of surface rust which should help the grip considerably. I haven't checked but I'm pretty sure one of my local guys can fix me up with a rubber/leather combo belt. If possible I'd rather do that locally than go the McMaster-Carr route. (17819)
Craig, spray some belt dressing on your flat belt. A little slip once in a while beats tearing something up. Duane (17820)
I am using a v belt drive on my flat belt lathe 9" sb it is a problem to change the belt. I get good traction because I use a strong spring in the engage bar with the result that if I did have a hard grab it would allow some slip to prevent tear out. (17825)
Craig, The flat belt is fine if it is in good shape. The belt must be installed correctly or it will slip like crazy. Leather has a skin side (smooth) and a flesh side (appears rough or hairy). The smooth side MUST be against the pulleys. I suspect your belt is too old and oil soaked to work right. Buy a new belt, mount it smooth side to pulley and you will be amazed how well it works. Mike (17833)
If you are having trouble find a flat belt for your South Bend, try contacting International Belt and Rubber Supply, Inc. 3685 Duwamish Avenue South Seattle, Washington 98134 USA (206) 622-6034 voice (206) 622-3650 fax They carry rubber/nylon composite flat belts and also leather/nylon flat belts. They may be able to order all-leather belts too. I just had them make me a one-inch by four-foot leather/nylon belt for my 9-inch workshop model C. The belt works beautifully. It cost $21.70 plus $4.25 freight to get it from their supplier plus tax. Then they trimmed it to my exact desired length. You should run your turnbuckle all the way in, then put a fabric tape measure around the cone pulley, then add another half inch or so. The metal clip used to join the belt adds another 3/8-inch as I recall (don't quote me on that) -- they will trim the belt to compensate so be sure to measure carefully. The leather/nylon belt is a sandwich of two layers of chrome-tanned leather with an inside "filling" of a nylon belt. This belt doesn't stretch much at all. They told me not to oil it. Both inside and outside leather surfaces are suede-like, unlike the traditional oak- tanned belting leather. dave (17838)
SB9, Serpentine Belt: Groves In/Out
I am in the process of installing a serpentine belt on my 9. At present I'm waiting for new oilers as the old ones looked at lease 25 years old. My question is, how do you run these belts, with the groves against the pulleys or the smooth side? Which is best? Paul A. (18084)
Unless your pulleys have grooves, you will have to run the flat side to the pulley. (18085)
Yes, I have the standard flat pulleys. But why do you say "have to" use the flat side? It looks like the grooved side would also run perfectly well. I may experiment when I get the oilers and reassemble it. Paul A.(18100)
Look at the belt. The purpose of the groove is to increase the surface contact in a grooved pulley by about 100%. Put another way it is like having a 2" belt surface contact wise that is only 1" wide. On a flat pulley you have only the tops of the grooves in contact with the pulley. Roughly 50%. this would = a 1/2" belt wide. (18105)
I have not tried it, but I am familiar with those belts. The ribbed side will provide sufficient power transmission for our purposes. The belts are built to flex in that direction, and will probably be happier doing so. Probably last for ever either way you do it. RC (18106)
I have a serpentine on my 9 with the smooth side against the pulleys, and I love it. Paul (18107)
I just finished putting a serpentine belt on my 9" model C. the Grooved side slipped quite easily compared to the flat side. So flat side against the pulleys is the way I go. Lamond (18108)
Lamond What size belt did you use? Belt# ?, I think I may give this a try. Larry (18111)
Larry , The automotive serpentine belt on my lathe is a Gates Micro-V the number on the sleeve is K060465. I just measured the Inside length of the leather belt , told the counter man I wanted a 3/4 inch wide 46 long belt. (18114)
This sounds bad. I just took a rough measurement and went to the local auto parts dealer and said that I needed a serpentine belt about this length. They acted like it happened all the time. Then I cut it and used alligator clips so I could put it on my lathe. I am sorry I don't even know what kind of vehicle it fits. (I hope it wasn't a Yugo! ) Lamond (18121)
I have a Heavy Ten that cannot use a complete belt. I replaced my car serpentine belt, cut it to length and laced it in place with some .015" stainless steel wire. Ran very nice with the groves down against the pulley. Since the wire was in the bottom of the groves no noise was noticed. I expect alligator clips would make a lot of noise. Walt (18130)
Yes, does sound bad The neat thing about the serpentine belt is that it runs so smooth without the click or bump of the joint. Down side is that to install properly requires removing the spindle and shaft of the rear pulley. These belts are very strong and Durable. On an automobile they drive the generator , water pump , fan etc. all with one belt. (18132)
I've run a 3/4" on my 9C for over ten years. Went to the trouble to remove spindle to install it. It never stretched or broke. I found it ran best grooves out. If a little oil gets on it the extra surface area of the flat side will prevent slipping or having to put on too much tension - not good for spindle bearings. I just went to the auto parts store and said "gimme one this long". Ed
I've had my 10L around 25 years. I use it for hobby stuff and it seems I always have belt problems. I decided to get a automotive v-ribbed belt today. I found that a 975k7 belt is 97.5 inches with 7 ribs. That's very close but slightly under 1" wide. A 5 rib should be about 3/4". Since I had to cut it for my bent pipe under drive cabinet the extra was not a problem. Those six handy drawers sure nice. I used .035 welding wire and threaded it through the holes I drilled in the 6 vallies between the ribs. I put the ribbed side down as the surface has much more friction. I would not have believed it though. Since the wire lacing is in the grooves it's very quiet. At first I thought about beveling the ends for overlap and gluing them. That does not work. With the extra length I practiced "sewing" the ends three times before the real thing. The book says 58.5" for my lathe so I measured the belt THREE times and cut it. I wish it were 59" but it works. One other thing when engaging the tension it immediately tightens, no stretching here! Other then needing 1/2" more length it worked out very well. And it was under twenty dollars (just). Joe (18170)
Larry, I measured my leather belt first and it was 1" wide by 48" long. I just went to the auto parts counter with those numbers and asked if they could find one by dimensions instead of a make and model. He came up with a Kelly Springfield part number 480K6. I believe the 480 refers to the length in tenths of an inch and the 6 refers to six grooves. It is just a little under 1" wide. I have it on the lathe and it works perfectly. It needs a little more tension than the leather belt because it is not as flexible. It must maintain contact with the crowned pulley over it's entire width for the self centering action to work. I am presently running it with the flat side against the pulleys. Paul A. (18324)
I thought the entire idea of using a serpentine belt was to have one the was not cut and spliced. I took the spindle, back gear and motor countershaft apart to install mine. An additions blessing of this process was the discovery that my oilers were is very poor shape and needed replacement. The felts were worn or pushed back till they were even with the ends of the springs and the springs were riding on the spindle. One had a half turn piece that was worn off it and was also riding on the spindle. I would recommend that the spindles be disassembled and inspected every 20,000 miles or so. Paul A. (18325)
Groves In/Out [snip] [snip] Paul. Heavy 10's with a under drive motor, cabinet or pedistool, require a split belt. I also put the groves toward the pulleys and it works very well. Joe R SB 10L "heavy" (18330)
Belt lacing diagram?
Can someone post or email me the belt lacing diagram? Cant find mine. My sb is a 40s era 9" (18403)
Look in the files section- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/files/Techinfo/Belts/ (18405)
Is yours a under drive or is the motor in the rear? If it's in the rear, why not measure and get a automotive flat belt? You'll need to remove the spindle but while your there you can check the felts. If it's a under drive you can still use one but will have to cut it. Measure, get one, cut it them drill holes in the valleys and lace it with .035 welding wire. Run it with the groves down, it will not slip. I've done the latter. I've messed with my last leather belt. These don't stretch. If you have to stitch it up, I suggest you get one extra long so you can have a trial run or two. After two I was satisfied that I could make it look right. Just put the lever in the tension position, the adjustment as short as possible then measure. The width is measured by the number of groves. Seven is just about a inch and what's I've got to my heavy ten. Joe R (18406)
It is also in HTRAL. On the pulley side the lacing should NOT cross over itself or it will cut itself apart, crossover on the outside. JP (18423)
10K belt replacement?
I need to put on a belt and I have everything loose and off from what I can see on the drawing. I assume the shaft slides toward the tailstock? But I don't want to break anything. (19173)
I took the shaft right out and right back in no sweat. I used 2 nails to hold down the wick spring 1 on each spring and 1 bent for a plunger to push it down just stick them in the oil hole's. Bob (19183)
That's how mine on a 13" came out but not a lot of room getting it out from from under the belt, best to have help when lifting the spindle its not light. (19185)
That's how it came off on my 10K. I put a block of wood at the left hand end of the spindle and tapped it with a hammer. You'll want to put something up front on the bed just in case the spindle comes *all* the way out, if you know what I mean! Ed(19186)
Put a chuck in the tailstock and grab a 1/2 inch or so bar that you stick in the headstock spindle hole. If the spindle comes out too fast, it will ride the bar. Useful trick for all sorts of things, like putting the spindle back. Frank (19189)
Need Belt info
Just picked up a "new " SB Model A and I am looking for a new belt. The belt I do have is a flat leather belt that looks ok but has broken on one end by the metal crimp. One side is fine but I was wondering is it possible to get the other side crimped? Do they even sell them? Or can I even get a new belt? (20253)
My belt finally fail awhile back and I went to an Auto store and bought a 1 1/8 inch belt the length I needed and then cut off one of the grooved sections. The reason for using 1 1/8 inch was many more sizes available and I could find the length I needed. No 1 inch was long enough at the time ( Don't know about now ). I then ran the belt on the back side and it worked great. The biggest fun was dismantling the headstock and horizontal drive unit to install the belt. Walt (20259)
My Heavy Ten runs with one of the conveyer belt strap like material about 1/8" thick and an alligator clip to hold it together (easy to install). It has been using that type for many years even before I owned the lathe. I believe McMaster Carr sells a replacement. It has rubberized surfaces with a thread type of core (like a car tire) and just doesn't seem to slip much at all under any load I have applied so far. It clicks a bit when running but you soon forget it when working and did I say it's easy to install g about $40 US last year from a fellow that makes them up here in Canada. Personally if I was to make up my own I would head for McMaster's. They also sell the clips if I'm not mistaken. Maybe you can salvage your leather belt. Tom (20260)
I once made a belt for an Atlas lathe at work, I used a small hinge with a removable pin, just pop rivet the hinge on an smash them flat on the back side. The alligator belt lacing are easy to install also. They just hammer on. I have a whole big piece of conveyer belt 1/8" thick if anybody wants a strip email me offline. Bob (20261)
Belting and the clips for joining the belt are readily available from McMaster Carr. Both leather and composition belts are listed. The prices are reasonable. Jim B (20263)
I did a search through posts but did not see anything. Thanks (20264)
I have found that most farm equipment dealers sell and lace flat belts. Ray (20265)
Tom that's just what I did. The ALLIGATOR clip seems perfect. Might need a new belt but I think it will last another 5-10 years as is. The price of fresh leather belt here in NY is running around $7.00 a foot. Its nice to know they still sell it. (20266)
I think I'm going to buy a belt blank from Tandy Leather and skive/glue it the next time I need a belt. The leather blank (.75" x 72") goes for $11.99 plus $7.50 shipping. Dave (20267)
I put an automobile serpentine belt on mine. Way better then a leather belt. Just go to an auto parts store and ask for a 7/8 wide X whatever length you need. Less then 20. bucks. Larry (20269)
I just purchased new leather belting from McMaster-Carr. They sell it by the foot and they also have the alligator clips to put the belt together. The clips come in a box of about 1dozen and are about a foot long. You just cut off what you need and then hammer the clips on both sides of the belt. There is a pin that connects the belt and that comes with the kit. (20272)
Here is another source for belts. I don't know how much they would charge to ship a belt but walking in got me a new leather belt for under $20. No connection other than a satisfied customer. Hudson Belting 85 E. Worcester St Worcester MA (20273)
Belt materials
I had to cut the laminate belt (leather rubber with stiff nylon core) on my 10K to move it in sections. I can get a new belt made (for about $70 cdn), I can get gator lacing put on my existing belt for about $25 cdn (tried it myself, but the core is very stiff and just bends the prongs when I try it). If I can find a suitable short segment of material I may be able to splice it back together (since the belt is cut I can't just overlap the ends). The other possibility is using link belt - I can get 1/2" link belt for about $7/ft (cdn). This would be about the same price as the lacing option, but quicker. Anyone used link belt for a 10K? Ed. (21677)
Tony Griffiths at www.lathes.co.uk has synthetic belting and alligator joiners for sale. I think they are possibly cheaper than that, even with postage from UK. Len (21678)
Harbor Freight sells link belt for about $19 (U.S.) for a 5 foot length. It seems like that would be a simple and relatively cheap experiment. Mario (21679)
I have the same belt, leather on nylon. After attempting to install the alligator clips for the 6th or 7th time I finally realized that I had to prepunch pilot holes into the nylon core for the prongs with a sharpened awl. It assembled real easy after that. The gator clips are apparently designed for plain leather belting. Fortunately I anticipated a learning curve so I ordered extra belting. JP (21680)
A while back there was a discussion on using automotive serpentine belts available at any auto parts store. In the number on the belt is it's length in inches to the half. There's also a number like 5 or 7, that's the number of groves. Seven groove belts are about 1" wide. I bought one way big and experimented lacing it up using .035 MIG welding wire. I finally drilled a row of holes in the vallies of the ends about 5/16" from the edge. Then after putting it on my 10L under drive I laced the wire using small pliers. I threaded the ends back under on the flat side of the belt. Also I and others have determined the grooved surface has a better friction surface. If you examine both sides you'll see it. I cut mine about 3/4" short and the first time I moved the tension handle it slightly stretched the holes. I thought it would not last long was was very surprised to find out how strong these are. My 10L was never able to take such big bites with leather or composition belts. Also the oil from my must be plugged return holes have not reduced the grabbing. Also some like the click click of the leather belts but that's gone. Joe R(21683)
Has anyone tried these? would there be a foreseeable problem with something like this, other than a reduction of traction with 1/2" rather than 3/4" width? any slipping problems with a narrower belt? You are right - it is a relatively inexpensive gamble. Ed (21685)
In fact, if it doesn't work, you can always use it for vee belt, as it is intended!?!? By the way, I wanted to see if they still had it listed. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=43771 They do. Mario (21688)
Ed did you try to perforate the belt core with a punch or something? I bet that would work. Maybe even a sharp nail would work. Myself I got kind of interested in the serpentine car engine belt idea. I had a similar idea way back before I got my new belt done. I think I would go that route if I had to do it all over again. I even have some stainless wire to do it with. I can send some of that to you if you want. No charge g and how it goes. iend Tom Munroe(21690)
There's a pic in the files section of this group--hoggin'.gif--of my 9/10K Frankenlathe with 1/4HP motor taking a cut on some 6061-T6 about 1.5" OD. This is towards the heavy end of the range of typical cuts for my lathe...I've found that tool sharpness and rake angle and rigidity of toolpost and compound gibs and cross-slide gibs, are everything. If that tool can move around it will dig in and stall the lathe. Lurch (21691)
Has anybody tried one of these? They are polyester with a nitril rubber or santoprene coating. Ed (21692)
When I got my 9" (quite recently) I found the bang as the 'gator link ran over the pulleys very annoying. Maybe it was done badly and they're not supposed to do this? Since the belt had stretched a bit anyhow I cut the ends (with the clips) off and joined the ends by lacing with string. A bit old fashioned maybe but it worked really well. I think there are lacing instructions somewhere in the files section. If not I can send you a scan. Nick (21695)
I have one and it slips quite a bit sooner than the leather belts. Might be a matter of belt dressing. Not sure! Henry (21725)
Where to get belt lacing clips?
I am wanting to put a belt on my 9"SBL, I have the belting material and a Clipper belt lacer but have been unable to procure any of the metal lacing tabs, can someone point me in the right direction as to supplier of these? BK (21784)
Clipper is now Flexco http://www.flexco.com  Here's the wire hooks. http://www.flexco.com/industry/products/detail.cfm?p_id=10 Lloyd (21790)
Belts and clips. Baltimore Belts, Baltimore Md. (21795)
9" Vee belt history/advice?
When did SB change from flat belt to vee or was it just an option? My 1943 Model A has vee belt driven headstock with a single vee pulley on the obviously replaced motor and a single step flat pulley on the horizontal drive unit. I can see that I can increase the number of speeds by replacing the motor and horizontal drive pulleys with doubles. Does this seem like a desirable thing to do? Common sense tells me it is but I will await the input of the experts. Marshall (24905)
It is my understanding from reading some old South Bend product literature that the v-belt spindle drive was an option which allowed four spindle speed options instead of just three in the same physical space. My 1946 9B has a flat belt. As for the motor to countershaft drive, mine has a v-belt with two v pulley on the motor to a two step flat pulley on the countershaft and, yes I find it quite desirable. Gives lots more speed ranges. Neal (24923)
Serpentine Belts
In regards to the term serpentine belt the name only applies to automotive applications. In the industrial field they are called Poly V drive belts. These types of belts have been around much longer than their use on automobiles. These belts were used on a lot of small air compressors starting in the early sixties. I am not just sure when they were first available but I have seen them in industrial applications from the time I started my working carrier in 1960.
McMaster Carr handles Goodyear brand Poly V drive belts. These belts come in several widths and groove numbers. The ones I use are the .940 wide and have 9 grooves or 10 ribs. These belts also come in 6 and 8 groove sizes. McMaster Carr lists these as Ribbed Poly V-Belts. The size I use mostly on 9 inch SB bench model rear adjustable countershaft lathes is the 52 inch length but they come in at least two inch increments so you can get shorter or longer ones if you wish. There price is right at $20 for the 52 inch size. The catalog I have here at home is way out of date so I cant give you part numbers for the different sizes but you can go on line and search under Ribbed Poly V-Belts and they will pop right up. One other bit of information is I believe that 65 inches is the longest one Mc Masters list and also the longer you use these belts the better they grip. It seams over time the point of the V mashes down and after a wile you have near 80% contact on you pulley. Its kind of funny as you start using your lathe with these belts they will leave a little polished ring on you cone pulleys. After use you will see the ring get wider and wider and if you look at your belt you see that the contact area has increased dramatically. These things really grip and I love how smooth and quiet they run though I do miss the click click of the connector link on the old leather belt. You will find as I have the squeal you hear when you are pushing your lathe to hard is really nice and one other thing you do not have to run these near as tight as you do leather or composite belts so your spindle and countershaft bearings like them also."-))) Hope this helps clear up some confusion here. Sorry I had not explained in more detail. Turk (35174)
I am using a serpentine belt too. I believe it is 56 1/4. I got it at Napa auto parts for $12.oo I have a pedestal drive mounted behind my lathe so I needed a belt between 56 and 58". It has 6 grooves and is 13/16" wide which is the same width as the one I replaced. I just called and asked what sizes they had in stock and what the prices were on each. They had two sizes on hand and one was $25 and the other was $12 so I took the cheaper one of course. It grips alot better than the leather one I replaced which was glazed and slipped easily. Jerry (35175)

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