| Flat belt question (Mar
17, 2001) |
Motor drive v-belt question
(Sep 27, 2003) |
| V belt size for 9" lathe?
(Apr 8, 2001) |
V belt Question (Sep 27,
2003) |
| Need POWER Leather belt isn't hacking it! (Jul 1, 2001) |
Flat belt questions (Oct
5, 2003) |
| Vee Belt Drive (Aug 8,
2001) |
9" 4-step belt question
(Nov 11, 2003) |
| Endless drive belt (Sep
1, 2001) |
Replacement flat belt for heavy
10 (Jan 23, 2004) |
| 9 inch belt tensioner
(Dec 12, 2001) |
Leblond Belt (Jan 24,
2004) |
| Leather belt woes (Jan 8,
2002) |
Length of strap in 13" (Feb
3, 2004) |
| V-belt change (Jun 15,
2002) |
V Belt Replacement (Feb
21, 2004) |
| New belt glued or clipped?
(Aug 21, 2002) |
Question on Belt Drives
(Mar 18, 2004) |
| Belting (Sep 13, 2003) |
SB9, Serpentine Belt: Groves
In/Out (Mar 31, 2004) |
| Flat belt underneath drive
question (Oct 29, 2002) |
Belt lacing diagram?
(Apr 13, 2004) |
| Drive belt conversion
(Dec 24, 2002) |
10K belt replacement?
(May 20, 2004) |
| Texalon flat belt (Feb
11, 2003) |
Need Belt info (Jul 28, 2004) |
| Belt tentioner (May 17,
2003) |
Belt materials (Nov 2, 2004) |
| Flat belt or VBelt pulley
(May 24, 2003) |
Where to get belt lacing clips?
(Nov 5, 2004) |
| Installing a belt (Aug
12, 2003) |
9" Vee belt history/advice?
(Feb 6, 2005) |
| Long term belt care (Sep
20, 2003) |
Serpentine Belts
(Aug 4, 2006) |
| |
| Flat belt question |
| Does anyone
know of a source of reasonably priced flat belts for the South Bend
Lathes? Must they be made of leather? Certainly Vee belts are made
from some composition material and are very durable and inexpensive.
(326) |
| Try you local bearing/belt
distributor. They can supply a flat rubber belt. Just take in your
old one. Cost is usually about $30 Marty (327) |
| I ordered one
for about $13.78 from McMaster-Carr. I think it was: 6082K35
"Endless NBR Rubber Flat Belt 3/4" Width, 53" Circumference" Check
the web site, and order the length you need. Comes pre-fastened, so
you have to tear apart the headstock and counter shaft to install. I
think 53" might have been a hair long for me, and also closer to 1"
would have been a better width, but I'm not sure if it would fit the
pulleys with the slight wandering the flat belts do on spin-up.
Can't beat the price, thought, and if kept free from grease, the
slip very little (compare that to leather). Paul R. (328) |
| V belt size for 9" lathe? |
| Can anyone tell me the size (series and length) V belt used between
the motor and jackshaft of the 9" horizontal drive models with two
speed ranges on the jackshaft? The badly worn belt on mine says
Gates TruFlex 3430 and 4543-C, but neither part number makes the
length obvious. Chris (495) |
| I'll trade you. If
you tell me the size of the pulleys on the motor, I'll tell you the
V-Belt size. Just kidding, though I do need to know the pulley size
so I can buy a replacement. When I spoke to the folks at SouthBend,
they said a 40" or 42" 5L belt. I got a 40" belt and it fits my
single pulley model just fine. You may need the 42" for the two
speed version, luckily belts don't cost too much. chris
(496) |
| I don't know
how to measure the pitch diameter properly, but maybe this is a
help. Small: 1.1" base of groove, 2.1" across the rim Large: 2.4"
base of groove, 3.4" across the rim According to HTRAL the jackshaft
speeds on the 2Vx3flatxBackgear 12 speed model are 615 and 335 rpm.
I'm suddenly realizing that the math relating that to pulley sizes
isn't so simple after all, as one has to figure out how much the
bigger pulleys change in diameter to keep the same size belt (which
seams equally tight in both positions). I might just order
both. Chris (497) |
| Not that this has anything directly
to do with your questions, but I am doing a custom
motor/countershaft arrangement. My 9" had a real weird configuration
that I am replacing. I'm using a 3/4 HP 1150 RPM motor instead of
the normal 1750 RPM motor. I'm machining a two-step pulley for the
counter shaft that will be 9" diameter (the largest I can produce on
the lathe), and the appropriate two-step pulley for the motor. I
used some nice formulas and wrote a program to calculate belt-length
and pulley sizes since it got to be quite tedious. Just an FYI, the
formula for belt length is: L = 2C + pi/2 (D + d) + [(D-d)^2 / 4C]
where: L= length in inches, C=center-to-center distance of pulleys
in inches D=large pulley diameter in inches d=small pulley diameter
in inches. Just thought someone might want to know. Paul R.
(498) |
| The plot thickens!
I had no sooner sent that message than I checked my junkbox, and
wouldn't ya know it, the only 5L sheave in the lot looks to be a
match for the one on my lathe's motor at least as far as the OD's
are concerned. It is 3/4" bore with a keyway and a provision for a
setscrew (alas missing). Hefts like it must be either iron or steel,
not pot metal. Drop me a line if you can't find one. Chris (499) |
| The correct size
for your two speed v belt is a "B41" which is a 40" belt. I just
replaced mine Last week. Jim (502) |
| You may want to try
several belts. My 9" two speed range horizontal drive lathe required
a 43" belt. A Gates 3430. The recommended 42" would not fit. Jake (504) |
| Chris, I'm not
going to disagree with Jims' suggestion, but the belt you have now
is a 43" belt. Ballendo P.S. You can use a dressmakers flexible tape
measure (usually 60" long) to measure a belt measure both the inside
and outside. The REAL length will be between the two measurements;
closer to the outside measurement with std. vee-belts. (505) |
| Since I was driving
by the local bearing house, I took in the existing belt, and they
determined it was a 5L 43 incher. They then proceeded to sell me a B
series belt which is "just the same only rated for more power and
rides deeper in the sheeves" as they didn't have the 5L in stock.
Counter guy looked real skeptical when I described the SB V and flat
sheeve combo. Skepticism undiminished by my claim that thousands of
machines have been running fine this way for the past 60 years. I
think I probably will put the proper 5L belt on my next MSC or
McMaster order, as this belt being taller and thinner at the base
runs a bit unsteadily. But 43" is the right size for my machine.
Chris (506) |
| It
should be pointed out that, although a "B" series belt is very
similar to a "5L" series, when used on a "V to Flat" drive such as
the South Bend or Logan uses, they are NOT interchangeable. This is
due primarily to the height of the belt. Referring back to Chris'
original query, he said the belt number was a Gates 3430. If that
belt fits correctly, the "industry standard" number would be 5L430,
which is a 21/32" wide, 3/8" high, 43" OUTSIDE CIRCUMFERENCE,
Fractional Horsepower V-Belt. I emphasize the outside circumference,
because with standard V-Belts, such as a B43, the length designator
is the Pitch Length. The outside circumference of a B43 is 46". A
B40 would have an outside circumference of 43", but due to the
difference in height, it is not truly interchangeable with a 5L430.
B Series belts are 21/32" wide x 13/32" high. BTW, if the counter
guy doesn't understand a V to flat drive, you need to find a
different counter. While it may not be used often any more, it was
at one time a very common type of drive, and still very useable. It
had the main advantage of allowing a belt to be shifted without
having to readjust the pulley centers. Today, many drives use flat
belts which eliminate this requirement, and with modern materials,
the flat belt can handle more horsepower than in past years. I know,
more than any of you ever wanted to know. Scott Logan (507) |
| It seems like Scott
is right on the money here - when I look at the receipt, the B belt
the bearing house sold me as a substitute for the 43" 5L is a B40.
Tension seems about right, i.e., it is working without any adjustment
to the motor position. But I still plan getting a 5L soon. Chris
(509) |
| Need POWER Leather belt isn't hacking it ! |
| I've got with my 9"X36" tp. A . I
know it can be easily done with only the right information. So I'm
asking all you knowledgeable, experienced, been there, done that
fellows to pool your collective knowledge and tell me what the BEST
belt to use would be. Mine is a rear motor drive, and the motor
mounting plate is welded to the motor housing. The starting
capacitor cover is on the top of the motor, and the leather belt
which I have on it now rubs it hard. If I've put that belt back on
the pulley once, I've put it back on 1000 times, and I'm limited to
the amount of cut I can take to the point of being ridiculous. What
I want to do, Is find an endless belt, by my calculations 47", which
will bring the jack shaft/motor mount further forward, thereby
lowering the motor, and hopefully transmitting max power to the
spindle. I know there's a fellow on e-bay who has hi-tech belts for
sale, but $50.00 seems a little pricey. I believe that I saw a post
once from a guy who said he had them for half that, but I've no clue
who he is. Point me to the right belt, and I'll buy it at the speed
of light! John (989) |
| My old leather
belt bit the dust about 10 years ago . I phoned into BC Belting here
in Vancouver and gave them all the specs for a endless lathe belt .
I sent my wife in to get it and when she came back and told me the
price I near collapsed . It was $72 . Now that's in Canuck funds and
10 years ago. I've seen that fellow on e-bay selling for $50 so I
don't think he's too far out of line . I've been tempted to buy one
for a spare but this one looks the same as it did 10 years ago and
has a tremendous amount of mileage on it, same as myself. I'm
starting to get a mite long in the tooth so I'd hate to bite the
dust before this 10 year old belt did and then have the next owner
(likely the junk dealer my wife would phone) to get a new belt
courtesy of me. Barrie (990) |
| Barrie, How does
that belt perform ? What kind of cuts can you take and at what feeds
in mild steel ? In aluminum ? john (992) |
| John, I don't
know what kind of belt this is but it's a light green on the top
side and a yellow underneath and sort of a gritty rubberized type.
I'm sure it is synthetic and I've seen one on e-Bay the same color,
maybe it is the fellow that has one on now. I have a old 1947 9"x48
" . I power it with a 1 HP Baldor with a variable speed control, (
the best move I ever made) . My two chums across the street have a
13 " and a 20" so any real heavy cutting I just walk it over there.
On my lathe I use a 3/8 " Kennametal tool holder and use a T221S
-730 insert . This inset is a special for SS . I forget half the
time and just use it for everything. With these I can zip right
along in 309 or 316 SS and with the luber going , take .020 to .040
quite easily. I make a lot of glass blowing pipes for the industry
so have got pretty handy with working SS. My lathe has the lever
type tightner so thus there never is any slippage unless of course
you were to but the gear in and really poured it to it.
Barrie (993) |
| I believe it was
Scott Logan of Logan Lathes that offered a better deal on belts. I
did buy one of the EBay belts out of desperation, and before Scott
offered. It works GREAT! It is a stiff two-tone 1"wide, by about
1/8" thick continuous belt (he also offered spliced versions). Check
the Logan lathes web site and see what you can turn up. Scott, if
you're out there, maybe you can offer some advise. Paul R. (997) |
| Paul, yes I'm
here. I've avoided commenting on this subject, because I did not
think you or the other members wanted this turned into a commercial
board. As you've brought it up, I'll comment. Yes, we can supply
belts to fit South Bend Lathes. We would supply the same style as we
supply for Logans. These are custom made for us, to sizes we
specify. Belts in stock for Logan Lathes: LP-1183* 1" x 39" $33.75
LP-1184* 1" x 38" $32.00 LP-1185* 1" x 40" $34.00 LP-1186 1" x
53-1/2" $42.00 The first three belts are stocked either in an
endless nylon or an open composition material. The open belts
include Clipper(r) Lacing (the metal hinge and pins to connect the
ends). The endless nylon belt will be quieter and probably last
slightly longer, but (at least on Logan Lathes) require you to
remove the spindle. The open belts can be installed without any
disassembly. The LP-1186 is (according to good information I've
received) appropriate for at least some South Bend 9" Lathes. The
LP-1186 is not stocked as endless, since on the Logan 11" Cabinet
Model (where it is used), it passes through a hole cut in the bed
and an endless belt can not be used. We can provide either endless
or open belts in any size required, but please understand that sizes
other than stock ones listed are NOT returnable, as they are special
order. Power transmission: I have used the LP-1186 on an 11" Logan
here in our shop. It will handle all the power I would want to throw
at it. I have managed to take cuts that will stall the MOTOR, and
the belt did not slip. One cut I took, when a customer was having
trouble, was on ~4" diameter cast iron. I forget the spindle speed,
but the cut was 0.150" deep (radius) and 0.010 IPR feed. It strained
the motor, but nothing stalled or slipped. This was with the open
composition material. The endless nylon belts will handle more. FWIW,
Logan Lathes were NOT supplied with Leather Belts. The originals
were a rubberized canvas composition, and were endless. The
exception is the 11" Cabinet Models, and endless could not be
installed (even at the factory), but it was glued together after
assembly. I'm not sure of the material. For further details or
prices of custom sized belts, please contact me OFF-LIST. Of course,
if a group purchase of a larger number of belts of the same size can
be arranged, the price will be lower. I feel pretty certain that the
price will be less than what was being sold on eBay. I know South
Bend still sells belts for their lathes. At one time, I checked, and
the price for the 53-1/2" belt was something like $120 or so. I will
happily put our endless belts against the belt from SB in a direct
test (if anyone is willing to buy one at that price), and I will bet
our belts will be more than adequate, for this class of machine. An
identical belt material (but ~2" wide) is used on our CNC Lathe, and
handles 10HP cuts. BTW, there is a related Yahoo! Group for Logan
Lathe owners. I know there are a couple of "cross-subscribers" but
for others who may be interested, see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lathe-list
Scott Logan (998) |
| Scott Logan wrote:
I wonder if you would be able to offer any comments on a situation I
experienced with a 13" south bend while turning 3-4" cast iron. I
found I had to take fairly light cuts - say no more than .020" deep
(this was true even when I was well inside the stock and is pretty
typical for this lathe). If I tried to go deeper first the machine
would slow down - very obvious as a change in the tone of the noisy
power feed gearbox - and then eventually the leather belt would slip
off the cone pulley. This usually resulted in the tool being jammed
into the work, and the carbide insert would always break as the tool
was backed out. What I haven't been able to figure out is if the
belt was starting to slip, or perhaps the V-belts to the jackshaft
were slipping, or if the 1.5 HP motor itself was slowing down. I
keep meaning to repeat the experiment while monitoring the motor
and jackshaft speed somehow. At the time I had been inclined to
believe one just couldn't take cuts much heavier than that, but your
above example makes me think perhaps a machine of this size should
be able to. Chris (999) |
| Scott You
are courteous and your comments were on-topic and welcome. You are
correct about the $120 price from SB. I initially wanted to restore
my 1941 lathe to "factory" condition, but spending that kind of
money on an inferior part didn't make sense. I am thoroughly pleased
with my "EBay" belt, and from the sound of it, yours are equal to,
or better than that so I wouldn't hesitate pointing folks in your
direction. Before I replaced my belt I was looking at going to a
v-belt setup. Now I'm quite happy the way it its. Paul
R. (1000) |
| Chris, First, make
no mistake, I am NOT an expert on South Bend Lathes. I have never
operated one, and have seen precious few. I subscribe to this list
primarily because of the similarity between South Bend and Logan
Lathes, and comments that apply to one, often apply to the other. So
much for the disclaimer g I can't imagine that a 13" South Bend
can't handle a heavier cut than that. Certainly, a 1-1/2 HP Motor
could do better. You should check what exactly is slipping. Get the
Lathe to start slipping, and see what belt stops first. The pulley
before that is being driven, the pulley after is not. If the motor
is stalling, the motor is shot, or wired wrong. This sounds like the
belt is slipping. At first, I thought you might be "single-phasing"
a 3-phase motor, judging by your comment about it gradually slowing
down, but the belt slipping off indicates (to me) that the belt is
slipping. Of course, my first suggestion would be to tighten up the
belt adjustment. It also sounds like the alignment may be off a tad.
Using a long straight edge, check the sides of the pulleys and make
sure they are in line. Hope this gives some ideas, and
encouragement. This lathe should DEFINITELY handle a heavier cut
than you indicate. Scott Logan (1002) |
| On this topic of
belts I have some questions. Just what kind of cut should I be
getting? Currently if I try to take off more than .020" on a piece
of aluminum the flat belt starts to slip and then it will jump off.
The little 1/3 hp motor hasn't even started to bog down yet. I have
one of the nylon belts on my machine now and I am also wondering how
tight one should tighten a nylon belt. What kind of cuts are the
rest of you getting in aluminum and steel? Jake
(1014) |
| Maybe check your
belt alignment. On my nylon belt i can put all the torque I need on
it with no problem. It seems when I push the tensioner arm in I may
be putting about 10 lbs or so pressure . On my 1947 Model A , 9"x48"
SBL The distance from the top of me bare compound to centre cut line
is 1.042 " . Now of course this has a tad of wear over the years.
Set up right Jake you should be able to do a lot better than the
.020 you stated . I'll try later on a piece of scrap and let you
know but I bet if I put it in 2nd or 3rd gear I could hog off, (in
aluminum) .080 to .100 with no problem . I use a Kennametal Tool
holder MT BR-62 NK6 with With T221S inserts and any grade you like.
I generally use the 730 inserts for S/S and just leave it on for
near everything else. (1015) |
| Jackie, I will check my belt alignment. I did not
understand the following WRT belt alignment: " On my 1947 Model A ,
9"x48" SBL The distance from the top of me bare compound to centre
cut line is 1.042 "? Jake
(1022) |
| New paragraph,
different subject! He was then referring to his compound, and his
distance from center line of spindle . I had to read it twice, as
well ! (1023) |
| I checked my belt
alignment yesterday. Just using a straight edge they appeared to be
pretty close. How much tolerance is allowable? I did find that
loosening up the belt some helped cut down on the belt jumping off.
Just for grins I checked my distance from the compound to the center
axis with my calipers and got @ 1.025". Does anyone know the actual
number should be? Jake (1047) |
| I didn't read the
other replies but I'll tell you what I did. I measured the max/min
size of the belt that I needed. I then went to the auto parts store
and bought an automotive serpentine belt of the proper length. This
is one of those belts used on newer cars that snake around and run
everything. This is a very strong reinforced flat rubber belt about
an inch wide. If it will last for 60,000 miles on a car, how long
then will it last on my lathe. The cost was about $20,It worked for
Me. Its seamless so I had to pop the spindle to get it on.
(1053) |
| Vee Belt Drive |
| I have
noticed that some folk have wanted to get more "grab" via the belt
system. A friend recently dug up an article from Model Engineer's
Workshop that describes a Vee belt option for the Southbend. I have
scanned the document and uploaded it to the files section under Vee
Belt Drive. I hope this is of value. Dennis (1264) |
| Dennis: I have a
1938 model C with v belt drive, that I am going to sell, it has the
catalog number of 415YV even though South Bend says that number is
invalid I have seen it in some old literature. I have been thinking
about putting it on my 1946 model A to gain one more speed
(1265) |
| Dennis, Over
here on this side of the pond, Australia, I have only ever seen vee
belt drives on our Southbend clones - the Hercus (see pic Lathe5.jpg
in 'files' folder 'Hercus (clone)'). If you look at the pages
10-11,18-19 20-21 of the Hercus spare parts manual in the same
folder, you'll see that the 'flat' cone is listed as spare part.
You'll also see the 'vee belt' cone listed as spare part in the
Southbend spare parts manual.
So, over here, we not only talk different and drive our cars on the
opposite side of the road, we drive our lathes different too!
Bill (1266) |
| Dennis: There is a
picture of my model C in the archives look under The file titled SB
A C. Randy (1267 |
| Randy, Thanks for
the feedback. I have posted some pics of mine in "Dennis's Lathe"
Regards Dennis (1274) |
| Bill, I have seen
the lathe part, but do not want to imagine the cost. I was given the
article and added it for those who wanted a deeper cut. If I was to
go that route I would make my own as for me the challenge is making
things. At one stage I made some enquiries to Southbend regarding
metric conversion gears. The gears would only cost $500US! One of
these days I hope to be able to cut my own! I wonder how close the
clone is i.e. can the vee pulley of the Hercus fit the Southbend?
The part would probably not be as dear. I suppose the Hercus has a
slotted cross slide, which I think is a good feature, and plan to
make one in the near future. I think that the difference between
driving and driving is related to the different hemispheres!
Dennis
(1275) |
| Randy,
Checked out the pics of your 'c'. I noticed what looks like a spare
belt on the headstock. I have thought that it would be good idea, if
the time comes to strip the headstock down to replace a worn belt
that it would be worth installing one or two extra belts to save,
what Ron points out, will be pain-in-the-# @^ excercise! Do
you find the spare belt a hindrance at all? I am thinking it will,
at least, take away from the asthetics of nice looking piece of
machinary. But hey! I am NOT looking forward to stripping my lathe
down! Can any of you 'old timers' tell me how long a belt will last?
I assume a vee will last about as long as a flat belt. Mine's looks
fairly new at the moment. Bill (1276) |
| Bill: There is only
one belt on the lathe, the picture just has a weird reflection. I
have not used this lathe I purchased it at the same time as the
model A because it went cheap. Randy (1277) |
| Dennis, I can
imagine what the cost would be! But imagine if I had to buy it from
the USA. Apart from shipping costs, the Aussie dollar, at the moment
only buys $0.52 US. Nearly twice the costs. But wait! what if the
Hercus parts ARE interchangeable AND the cost is about the same in
Aussie dollars as the SB parts in US dollars. You could buy the same
part for half the cost. You lucky buggers! Seriously, I'll make some
enquiries locally to see what those vee cones cost. I can take some
quick, rough measurements off my lathe. It would interesting just
see how close the parts are. I'm sure when F.W. Hercus bought the
manufacturing rights off SB back in the '40s he would not have
wasted time and energy re-engineering the SB just for the heck of
it! If it ain't broke don't fix it! Bill (1278) |
| I thought about
converting to v-belt when I saw an article in HSM or MW (forget
which) about making your own conversion, but after I got a
heavy-duty synthetic belt, there's no reason to. The belt is stiff
so it won't wander under load and the grip is just fine. The flat
belt is also a little easier to shift on the cone pulleys than any
v-belt would be. I have seen v-belt conversion kits on Ebay, but
I'll save my money. Just install a good synthetic belt and forget
your troubles. Paul R.
(1279) |
| Endless drive
belt |
| Can an automotive
serpentine drive belt be substituted for the leather take apart
belt? How does one get the endless type belt over the headstock cone
pulley? What/how is the headstock disassembled to do this? Where
should I look for a rocker type tool post/tool holders for my 9"?
(1429) |
| Yes, a serp belt can, and has, been used successfully.
The spindle and the jackshaft must be removed to install the belt.
From what I've heard it works very well. As for the rocker tool
post, get rid of it! Buy, beg, borrow, steal, etc. a four way tool
block. Or better yet, an Aloris type holder. Frank
(1430) |
| I have
not yet had to replace my belt but my dad owns a tack saddle store
and They have made several belts for different applications. If you
can find a leather repair shop try to get them to make you a skived
endless belt and sell you some glue to put it together, they can
tell you how. I would not suggest any of the rubber or rubberized
belts, it saves a lot of time and money if you use the leather belt
tensioned just enough so the if you bind up something it will slip
and not tear your lathe apart. Randy (1433) |
| 9 inch belt
tensioner |
| Frank, Is the
Upright or pivoting part shaped like a "C" or slightly curved. If
so its from a 10K (light) lathe. To my understanding the 10K used
both styles. Look back a few months. Peter Merriam posted photos of
one. The motor goes in back or inside of the 'C' on a pivot plate.
There is a rod that has a knob that goes through the headstock. This
is how the belt was tensioned. It won't work for your 9 inch though.
The headstock castings are a bit different. Let me know if this is
the case. Tom(2393) |
| If you go to this url and look at bottom of the files list at barmylathe.pdf, in it you will find a page (17) titled 10K
horizontal drive unit which shows a parts breakdown that may be
helpful.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/files/ If you
have trouble getting it, email me off list and I can send you a scan
of the page. Peter M(2396) |
| Neither your description or the picture
from the manual looks like what my friend has on his lathe. The
pivot rod goes right through the middle of the casting and must be
clamped with the afore mentioned clamp to the back "way" directly
behind the headstock (right inline with the flat pulleys and belt.
We have guessed that the drive was taken off of another lathe
(atlas?) or something. My friend is interested in just finding the
typical 9 inch motor mount and pivoting horizontal drive, if this is
possible. It may be impossible to find one? Anybody know where we
could find one? Frank
(2402) |
| Frank, These
show up from time to time on E-Bay. I bought one for around $100
complete with tension rods and handle. You could call some of the
dealers, Meridian or Plaza. Meridian has a website. Both are good to
deal with. Tom (2404) |
Frank, There
is a belt tension rod and handle assembly on E-bay, item number
1677294837. Between the prices of the two items you would need, I
might check out what the dealers want. Also, look on page 17 of the
manual posted by Peter. That's the set-up for the 10K I was referring
too. Mine is a bit different though. The two piece clevis shown (part
3746) is one piece on mine. Mine has a long rod that goes through
the headstock. Look at page 5 horizontal headstock. There is a
cutout or slot in the middle of the front face of the headstock. The
rod has a smaller diameter at the end with a large knob on the end.
Push in to put tension on the belt and slide it down to look it in
place. This gives belt tension control from the front of the lathe.
Tom
(2466) |
| Tom, Thanks
for clearing that up. I wasn't looking
closely enough at the diagram to see the different variations.
Frank
(2479) |
| Frank,
Looking at the pictures, is your friends the 10K style or some other
brand? Tom (2480) |
| Frank, Also,
look at the plate that the tensioner stand sits on. The 10K (I know
guys the 10 K used both styles) has a triangle base with 3 slots for
bolts. The 9 inch is square and I think has four. Let me know what
you have. I have the 9 inch base(26), standard(28) and cone(10)(see
pg 15), but no Shaft pulley(4) or lever and turnbuckle and rods. Tom
(2481) |
| Tom, We have
determined that the tensioner is from some other lathe (maybe an
Atlas). It isn't like the 10k and it is square and has three bolts
that mount it. We also noticed that the casting is more square that
that of most South Bends - which seem rounded off on edges (smoother
castings). Frank
(2485) |
| Leather belt woes |
| I have a 9"
model A. There's a chirping coming from the flat leather
belt which persists and ranges from annoying to deafening. The belt
is a few months old and fastened with the typical metal clips. I
have softened the belt with leather softener repeatedly (it is soft
enough), cleaned the cone pulleys, and used a nonslip spray, all to
no avail. There has been only very temporary relief. I long to hear
just the sweet humming of my model A, without the clatter of the
metal clip, and most of all the chirping of the belt, which has
managed to disturb my sense of oneness with the machine. This
irritating noise level is undoubtedly responsible for all of my
blunders which become scrap metal. I do not want to take apart the
headstock to install an endless belt. Can anyone offer a solution?
Is there a flat belt that is quiet and can be fastened with a type
of glue, such as what is sold by Southbend, but at a more affordable
price? Al (2608) |
| I went to a
local belt retailer and asked him what he recommended, He sold me a
belt and loaned me glue and a heater to put it on. Maybe you could
find someone locally that would do the same for you. (2610) |
| Al: I bought an
appropriate leather strip from a local shoe repair shop for $8 and
laced it together as per the SB "How To Run a Lathe" book. On the
belt pulley contacting side, the smooth side, after drilling small
holes for the lace, I burned grooves in the leather, with a red hot
nail of cord dia., such that the lace cord would mostly be even with
the leather, for a smooth joining. My original laced belt, done as
described, lasted 28 years or so. I used a good grade of heavy nylon
cord, I think. You must be careful to keep the joint straight, or
the belt will not run true. Also the leather strip, as supplied,
must be a straight piece. The shoe repairman said he got the leather
at York Pa. from Amish harness shop. Either this or gluing are the
best way to go. Rich(2615) |
| I found a
place locally here that makes leather belts with the metal clasp
connection. They make then any size you want. One for my SB 9" was
about $25.00 Considering a factory one costs over $100 that's a good
price. Alex (2617) |
| The belting is
under three bucks a foot at www.mcmaster.com [with whom I have no
connection], the glue is available at the hardware store, and the
metal clips [if you choose to go that route] are available for $5
including postage from me for as long as the supply lasts--I needed
ONE INCH worth of clips and the package quantity covers FOUR FEET. I
haven't heard anything negative from the guys I sent them to so I
figure they work chuckle the old one hasn't broken yet and it
doesn't slip and spit itself off since I started following the
excellent advice from JWE about speeds, feeds, etc...although it is
getting ready to just disintegrate into a puddle of oily, rotten goo...64
years and it turns to crap. They just don't make 'em like the used
to :-) By the way JWE, would you care to share your experience and
wisdom regarding parting tools? (2621) |
| I've installed
several leather lathe belts with glued joints. It's not all that
hard. There are a number of ways to skive (taper) the end of the
belt, some using jigs; but I take the low tech approach of doing it
by hand. I find that a razor-sharp wood chisel serves the purpose
very nicely. I hold it at a very low angle and "carve" away the
leather a little at a time. It helps to use a bit of a slicing
action. I generally try to make the skived joint about two or three
inches long. Two inches will work very well for a one inch wide
belt. Barge cement, available at shoe repair shops, works nicely to
join the two ends. Just be sure you use some method to keep the ends
straight while the glue sets up. I clamp thin strips of wood over
the joint while it cures. Strips of waxed paper between the wood and
leather helps to keep the glue from bonding the wood to the leather.
According to the old-timers, the smooth side (hair side) of the belt
goes next to the pulleys. The rough side faces outward. Orrin (2623) |
| Brian Slow, careful
and lots of oil and preferred carbide insert and if not "T" type
cobalt 15%. For the best use the metal lathes t-slotted cross slide
and rear tool post which I have to get one of these days. Otherwise
bandsaw or hacksaw off the machine works well. JWE (2625) |
| I made the belt for my SB about 10 years
ago by going to the local shoe cobbler and having him cut me a piece
of belting the right size. I then sharpened a piece of drill rod
about 1/8 dia to make a hole punch. I punched holes in the leather
using the pattern shown in the SB manual. I laced the belt together
as shown in the book using a length of wax covered flat string that
is used at motor shops to tie windings together. It has worked
perfectly ever since. There is no noise and nothing to wear. I have
used metal joints and don't like to hear them run. Dallas (2627) |
| That glue is called
barge cement you can get it from a shoemaker shop. Its cheap. The
trick is sciving the ends so the belt is uniform in thickness when
you have glued it. As someone else mentioned the ends have to be
jigged when you put them together, so the joint runs straight over
the pulleys. I did the one on my model B and have been using it for
several years now. The glued belt is definitely soothing to the
senses. I find myself going to that machine instead of my Logan
9B28,which is V belt driven and 25 years newer. A person I was
making something for once commented on that sound, while watching me
work, so its not just my usual dementia. the belt I'm using is 2ply
its smooth on both sides. That cement is in a yellow and green
package (tube) and has a picture of a bear as a trademark. RC (2635) |
| Al, Like several
others who have posted earlier, I too have skived my own belts. I
got my leather belting from Tandy Leather and used Weldwood contact
cement. I haven't tried Barge cement and it sounds like it could be
a better choice. What I have found is that leather is porous and it
takes two coatings of cement to build up sufficient adhesive before
putting the splice together. I used a sharp wood plane to skive the
ends of the belt. Make your splice about 5 inches long. Make the
taper at one end from the flesh side of the belting and the taper on
the other end from the hair side. I too use wax paper with blocks of
wood and C-clamps to clamp the joint and I allow 24 hours for the
cement to cure. An oily belt will not glue. If you are using a new
belt, this would not be a problem. Clean your pulleys before putting
the belt in place and gluing it together. Make sure that the joint
is straight before you clamp it. Also, check to make sure that the
drive and driven cone pulleys are aligned so your belt tracks well.
Webb
(2638) |
| I just used my belt
sander to sand the 2 1/2" taper on both ends of the belt. I then
made up a couple of pieces of wood to hold the belt when the glue
was applied. Used my stapler to staple the leather back a ways to
the wood jig. Used that Barge cement on both sides and then had a
couple of those pinch type clamps to hold the wood pieces together
until the glue dried... like overnight. Holds surprising well. B.G.
(2641) |
| Al, I had a
chirping noise with my belt when I first installed it. I had to move
the drive over a hair to get the belt away from the side of the cone
pulley. My noise has stopped. Bob (2646) |
| I like the
belt sander trick, it should give that uniformity that makes the belt
run smoothly. Also an ideal rough surface for the glue. Another
refinement that I forgot to mention is using a short piece of
aluminum angle and a piece of flat stock as a clamping jig. This
helps align the two ends and eliminates the wax paper. RC (2649) |
| V-belt change |
| I just
brought my lathe home, and had to cut the v-belt to separate the
motor from the lathe, as one of the pulley set screws was sheared
off, and I was not prepared to extract it on site. The lathe shipped
in 1970, but the belt on it was a SB belt, so I am curious as to
whether or not it has ever been replaced. As I looked the situation
over I realized I am not entirely sure what is involved in removing
the spindle. Am I correct in assuming there are shims in the spindle
bearings, and if so, how do I remove the spindle to change the belt,
and set it back up again correctly? I searched the archives under a
couple topics, but didn't' find this info - has anyone done a write
up on it? Scott
(4607) |
| To
remove the spindle you loosen the two bolts that hold the bearings
tight (you don't need to mess with the shims), remove the split nut
on the back side of the spindle (first loosen the screw that clamps
it together), then drive the spindle out using a suitable hammer and
a block of wood. The trick in replacing the spindle is to use a
piece of sewing thread fished through the oiling holes to keep the
spring loaded felt oilers out of the way. Use a loop so that you can
release one end and pull it out when you are done. The oiler git can
be screwed in to keep thread tight. The tailstock can be used to
apply pressure on center with the spindle to convince it to go back
home. It might be a good idea to replace the felts if they look
cruddy. Be careful in sizing the replacement belt. The belt on mine
is just a little too big in cross section and I have a tough time
slipping the belt over the pulley to change speeds. It wants to jam
between the pulley and the casting. Glen (4608) |
| gorvil wrote:
How late did they use the felt oilers? My lathe was built late 60's
- 1970. I just spent the afternoon trying to find a replacement. The
belt that came it, with South Bend Lathe on it was 56" x 5/8". The
replacement I got seems a little deeper, but I thought that might
have been due to the age of the old belt. I will see how it fits the
pulleys as I get it back together. Scott(4610) |
| You can also
use a small diameter wire inserted thru the breather hole that is
just above the oiler hole on both oilers (at least on my 1957 9A).
While the spindle is out, push the felts down enough and insert the
wire. Once the spindle is in, pull out the wire. This is what the SB
documents I have show for keeping the oiler felts down for
re-installing the spindle. Probably wouldn't hurt to flush any grit
out of the oil reservoir while the spindle is out and make sure the
return holes are clear. Rick K. (4612) |
| I got the
spindle out - the felts look more like those disposable foam
paintbrushes you buy for 99 cents, is that what they should look
like? They are definitely oil soaked, so it appears they are doing
their job. Now my problem is, I cannot get the backgear shaft out.
It appears there is a pin in the engagement handle that needs to be
driven out, a screw to loosen halfway between the two gears, and
then drive it out? I don't seem to be able to drive the pin out of
the handle, is it not meant to be driven out? When putting the
spindle back in, someone suggested pushing it with the tailstock -
based on the way it came out, I think it may need more encouragement
than that. Is is not advisable to use the block of wood and mallet
on the nose end - perhaps with a face plate on it? Scott
(4614) |
| Scott,
Regarding your comment about having been down this road many times,
fortunately I can say that I have not. My South Bend 10K has had the
same old belt on it since I got it about 10 years ago, and I do not
intend to replace it until chunks start falling out! Thanks for the
tip regarding the taper pin in the back gear shaft. I'll watch out
for that when the time comes. Mike
(4636) |
Scott, I take
it that you have the 16 (or 8) speed V-Belt setup on your recent
purchase. They do make a link V-belt for these. It is a common item
in Grizzly etc. From what I understand, they run a bit smoother than
the continuous V-belts and you can replace them without
disassembling the spindle. They also make a flat belt version too.
Grizzly list the V-belts for $20. Tom
(4637) |
| Now you tell
me :-). I already have everything apart to put a new belt on, but I
may try the link belt on the recommendation that it is smoother than
the v-belt. Scott
(4646) |
| New belt glued
or clipped? |
| I've
been itching to buy a new belt for my 9 in lathe. I have a leather
clipped (metal pin) one on now that is just oil soaked. Tried to
clean it with cleaner but still has trouble spinning spindle at
times. Is it difficult for a novice to put in a endless belt? I'm
afraid I'll mess up alignment or something? I really have no
complaints on the metal clip making a racket (I don't even notice
it) so maybe I should replace with same? Tim Q (5912) |
| Tim, I have some
belt driven equipment and despise the racket, really more the
vibration, from alligator style clips. My SB is a 16 spd V belt
drive, so I can't comment directly. But one of my Hardinge split
beds is an early belt slapper model, and I spliced the endless
leather belt myself. Used a very sharp block plane, lined up the
belt with the side of the workbench, squared end just at the edge.
Clamp with a block of wood back far enough back not to interfere
while planning. I eyeballed about a 1:15 slope (~a little less than
3" long for a 3/16" thick belt) and planed it using the sole for a
flat reference. Then planed the other side to match. You have a
little bit of leeway, if your splice is a little thick. Once the
glue dries, you can scrape down the hump (if any) on the flesh side
of the belt. Don't overdo it though; it is thinning one side of the
spliced ends and may weaken the splice. When you get ready to glue
up, have some blocks of wood as long (or longer) than the splice
area, and only a little wider so you can use the sides as a straight
reference. Thread the belt though the headstock being careful to keep
the splice clean. I put a layer of 2 mill clear packing tape on each
block to keep the glue from sticking. Be prepared to staple the
joint, only one staple is needed, to keep the joint from sliding
down the slope as you tighten the clamps. I glued each side, aligned
them, and stapled through the middle to one block. Then put on the
top block and clamps. A brad or 2 would work. Now here's my problem:
first time doing it, I could not find advice on adhesive, except a
couple people said use contact cement. I wasn't too keen, but was
keen to get using the lathe. It actually worked ok, except I kept
forgetting to release the belt tension, and oil seems to soften it.
after a "few" months, it separated. Next I tried ITW 5 Min epoxy,
and that did not hold worth a darn. then i re cleaned the joint, and
used Weldwood (solvent base) contact cement again, and it has held
for about 2 years. It is not the best adhesive, because heat and
even slight oil do soften it, as I've found. I have seen a
recommendation to use hot hide glue (not the liquid stuff) but don't
know if that is hooey or not. I have a few pounds around for
woodwhacking, so will likely try it next. Also use Flexane castable
polyurethane rubber for a number of things here, and if I could
think to have a belt ready when next mixing a batch, it does stick
to porous items like, well glue, and is tough and flexible. I'm
rambling. You can see i believe the splice is a piece of cake, but
don't know beans about the best adhesive to glue it up. Maybe the
belt source would tell you. My lathe came with a big roll of new
leather belt but no manufacturer data or reference to call. Another
way to do the splice is to make a block of wood with a long slope, a
little wider than the belt. Make sure the slope is not skewed
sideways. Align the belt ends sideways, but stagger the ends about
2-1/2" (for a 3" splice), and pin in place to the (longish) block
with the end of the belt at the thick end of the block. Be sure the
pin(s) are not in the splice area. Pull the whole shebang between a
coarse sanding drum (on a drill press, e.g.) and a parallel back
stop. Move the backstop in a little each time until the slope is is
fully developed on both ends. I prefer a block plane. smt (5913) |
| I have replaced the
leather belt on my 37 workshop 9 inch with a 7 row auto belt from
NAPA. And yes, it is a slight pain in the kiester because you have
to pull the spindle but I think it is well worth it. It is so
quiet. I am planning on doing the same thing with the 41 I am
rebuilding. They are not that expensive and I believe it will out
last me. I have not had a problem slipping. I generally work mostly
in Titanium or 316LVM stainless steel. Tomorrow I am gonna be single
pointing some threads in drill rod to make an axle for my motorcycle
project. Gerald (5914) |
| Tim, Do you have
the book, "How to Run a Lathe", published by South Bend? The 1942
version is available in reprint form from
www.lindsaybks.com . Other
earlier and later versions are available from
www.bookfinder.com ,
www.abe.com , or even eBay. I am away from my shop now, but I think
the book gives a good description of a neat way to sew the ends of a
flat belt together, which would work well for leather or fabric. I
don't know much about cleaning leather, but I have heard saddle soap
works. Also, did you try belt dressing? A grippy product, available
in spray can, from hardware and auto supply stores. I think more
answers to your questions about flat leather belts can be found in
the archives of this site, or from the Chaski Home Shop Machinist
website. For removing and replacing the spindle, and adjusting the
headstock bearings, this procedure is described in the Parts and
Maintenance manual for your lathe, which used to be available from
South Bend. Maybe now from Leblond or from the files or members of
this site. Jon (5916) |
| Make sure the
tanned (smooth, skin side that had the fur growing from it) surface
of the belt is against the pulley surface. A common mistake is to
run the belt inverted. The belt should also have directional arrows
embossed on it to show the normal direction od travel. You can
replace the belt with an automotive multi-V flat belt. Invert the
belt so the V's are away from the pulley. Ken (5917) |
| Gerald what kind of
titanium do you work with and what kind of end use? Robert (5919) |
| Though I haven't
used it yet, "Barge Cement" was recommended as the best adhesive for
leather belts ["Barge" is the name of the company]. Apparently you
can buy it at shoe repair shops, but I was unable to find it at the
2 or 3 I tried locally. I bought a tube of the cement though an
on-line retailer (just search for Barge Cement). I bought my leather
belt from a local belting and transmission company, who also skyved
it for me - I think the $5 or so extra I paid was well-worth the
effort of planning it myself. Jeff (5920) |
| Has
anyone seen/used the synthetic belt ie: on Ebay (looks yellow)?
Comes clipped or "welded" for $49.00? Tim Q (5921) |
| Tim; Baltimore Beltuing sells 4 ply power transmission belting clipped for a lot
less than that. I'm using it on my SB9, and my neighbor is using the
same material , just wider, on his SB15. Seems to me that the belts
for the 9 and the 15 came to about $45 including shipping. This
included clipped ends and pins. The belt is yellow/tan and is a 4
ply laminate. http://www.baltimorebelting.com
Will get you there. Usual disclaimer - not
owner/employee/stockholder/commissioned.... yadda yadda. They take
phone orders and credit cards, quick service. The owner also came to
one of our local club meetings with lots of handout, and gave a good
talk as well, so I like to support him when I can. Stan (5923) |
| Without having
tried it what about PVA type glue? It seems to stick nearly
everything except metal and that it tries. When used on cloth it
remains flexible. Phil (5925) |
| The thing to use on
the leather belts is called Barge Cement. The tube is yellow and red
and has a picture of a bear on it. I got it at a shoe repair
place. Shoe repair places also had lineshafts years ago so the
shoemakers kept the belts in shape. I use a piece of steel angle and
a piece of flatstock as a clamp to hold the tapered ends together
while the stuff dries. The angle gives you alignment of the ends. No
staple needed, just 2 C clamps to hold it. RC (5946) |
| Following is my solution to South Bend flat belts: I don't
like the noise of the alligator clips and I'm tired of my hand
lacing breaking and/or tearing out the holes. I contacted Texas Belt
Mill Supply, Huston TX, 713-926-9421, talked with "Dick" who is
supposed to be the flat belt expert. He recommended a Swiss imported
belt called "Haliasit". It's a synthetic material, green in color
and a little less than 1/8" thick. I purchased a 1" wide x 44"
finished length. It came skived on both ends and I had to buy a
bottle of their special adhesive for $10.50. Total cost , including
the bottle of adhesive was $40.I put it on my 9" SB, applied a
liberal amount of their adhesive and clamped overnight between two
steel blocks. That was a little over a year ago and it still works
beautifully. Very quite and it seems to be impervious to oil. I'm
very pleased with it and would highly recommend to anyone. Neil B.
(6029) |
| That sounds like
the belt I got from SB in 1978 only the color was black. Oh yah the
price from SB in 78 was about what you quoted. JWE (6031) |
| JWE, how's that
belt holding up? Do you still have it? James (6032) |
| Just fine, now if I
could just figure out what I did with the spare one I bought at the
same time. I could use it for the machine I bought from Marty. JWE
(6033) |
| Belting |
| When installing leather belt the smooth (skin) side rides on
pulleys correct? Does it make much difference which end of the
taper, on the pulley side, is the leading edge contacting the
pulley
for normal forward operation? stirboy (13926) |
| The belt that was
on my lathe has been "notched", a sort of "half lap" joint. The same
as carpenters notch the end of a piece of wood to half the thickness
to join them together either end to end or at a 90. I wonder if this
joint could be "scarfed" ? The end of the belt would be cut from the
full thickness down at an angle to the end, maybe about 4" in all.
This gives 4" of glue joint that would be the same thickness as the
belt. Has anyone seen it done this way? Also, how do you determine
the length of the belt? This one seems to be too loose. When I
rolled the machine over by hand it slipped ! Mike (13929) |
| I believe the cut
for the glue joint is supposed to be scarfed like you mention and
not lapped. If the belt was held under tension and not run for a
long period of time it will stretch. Mine did so I made up a new
belt, about $6 per foot from McMaster's. I used nylon core leather
belting and Alligator lacing. I had to punch pilot holes for the
lacing so it would penetrate the core without bending over. The
lacing has a bar on one side and the hooks are stiff, on the other
side the hooks bend over a little easier so I punched pilot holes
with a small awl. The lacing comes 8 ft. in a box, enough to screw
up many times which I did so buy extra belt and practice terminating
the ends. End result is it wasn't pretty but it works. If you know
someone with the 'machine' for the wire hook lacing, go that route.
Lacing is about $20 per box so the total cost is around $50. I don't
believe the belting and glue available today are the same quality it
was when your lathe was made. This is why I went the route I did. JP
(13933) |
| JP wrote: (snip) I
don't believe the belting and glue available today are the same
quality it was when your lathe was made. Modern leathers come from
much younger animals than previously, sent to slaughter before the
grain of the leather has become truly fibrous. Different tanning
make for different quality also. I think if I was going to use
leather, I'd up the thickness by at least 25% over the original. Len
(13935) |
| Presently I am
running a 3 ply .125 thick synthetic belt with #7 alligator clips
which once the length was correct has worked very well. But I do
have a 2"leather belt I'm thinking bout slicing in half and gluing
up. I made a jig out of 3/ one inch square lengths of key stock
pinned together at one end. then threaded the outer 2 at the
opposite end threaded at 90 degrees for vertical adjustment while
belt lays flat on center piece of key stock. this way I can cut/sand
a joint approx. 10" long. I have experimented with some Armstrong
520 adhesive and was pleased with results. The belt I'm going to use
appears to be high grade uniform thickness of .150 . if I do this
I'll keep group informed. stirboy (13955) |
| Bill, I've used
1" wide leather belt for some number of years with a scarf joint
about 2" long cut with a sharp chisel, glued with cyanoacrylate glue
and clamped up overnight. Works for the life of the belt. I run the
scarf joint to trail on the pulley side. Rob(13959) |
| Flat belt
underneath drive question |
| I have a SB
11" toolroom which looks basically like a Heavy 10 with underneath
drive and taper attachment. When I bought the lathe, the guy I got
it from showed me how to work everything and when he moved the lever
to tension the flat belt, he basically moved it from the 12 o'clock
position to about 9 o'clock and let the weight of the motor tension
the belt. He said that he had been having problems with belt-slip
and had tried a number of things (like scratching up the stepped
pulleys on the spindle , eek! and later covering it with tape to
make it sticky). I removed the tape and the oil-soaked belt and
replaced it with a modern belt and all has been well. That is until
this week when I tried doing some deep parting cuts to make cooling
fins on a cylinder. I started having bad belt-slippage problems.
Which leads to my question: Is the underneath drive belt tension
lever supposed to move over-center to provide a strong tension on
the belt, or is it just supposed to release the motor so that
gravity tensions the belt? I'm thinking it's maybe supposed to go
over-center and that was the source of all the problems. (6878) |
| I think your right, I believe the lever
must move over-center to provide a strong tension on the belt. Try
it and I bet your problems will be eliminated. Sounds like you
solved your own problem! Neil (6879) |
| According to
SouthBend Bulletin H4 "Keep Your Lathe in Trim" the belt needs to be
sufficiently tight that you can only depress it by about 1/2 inch
"close to the pulley". My interpretation of that on a heavy 10 is to
put belt on the middle pulley and apply a hard shove with the thumb
as far down into the casing as you can reach. All seems a bit
imprecise although the book does say use the minimum belt tension
needed to transmit the required power without slipping. Its worth
remembering that, with a sufficiently long belt, the gain in power
transmission from increasing tensioning is quite small. I'd assume
that an underneath drive belt is long enough not to need to be very
tight (I was introduced to a formula relating "sufficient" belt
length and pulley size umpteen years ago but my notes got buried
years ago). Bench top machine belts are usually too short for full
power transmission but given the Vee belt on flat pulley primary
drive it hardly matters. Modern leather faced, synthetic or glass
fiber backed, belts need more tension to transmit power in the first
place and show a significant increase in capacity as tension rises.
The mechanism is different. Pure leather belts stretch under drag so
increasing the wrap round the pulley to transmit more power. Hence
they pretty much only need enough initial tension to stop the thing
slipping on start up. Backed belts hardly stretch and rely on radial
compression of the leather facing to transmit power so its virtually
all done by tension. On mine the belt tension comes up over about
the last 50 degrees or so of travel on the handle. With the handle
in the centre, straight-up, position the belt is slack enough not to
drive and can just about be slipped sideways off a cone pulley step
but no way is there enough slack to change speed. Gotta go to the
right hand down position for that. Clive (6894) |
| I
hope I understand your problem correctly. - I have a 10k underneath
drive lathe, and had to replace the primary belt because after years
of storage, the v-belt had acquired a terrific set, causing a lot of
vibration. The primary drive tension is adjusted by positioning the
motor up and down using the slots on the motor base. The flat belt
is disengaged using the drive lever, which on my machine is on the
side of the cabinet. To have the belt fully engaged, you must move
the lever to the over-center position (180 degree motion of the
lever). When it is properly adjusted, you can feel a detent when the
lever is in the over-center position. The tension on the flat belt
is easily adjusted by a turnbuckle on the right side of the yoke
holding the secondary pulleys. The turnbuckle is easily adjusted
when the belt is disengaged, and by trial-and-error, you can try the
tension by engaging the drive and deflecting the belt with your
finger. If you have it set too tight, it's hard to get the lever all
the way to the detent, and I suspect it would be easy to overstress
the belt by pushing it too hard. With my machine at least, you can
set it so the tension on the belt is fine with a light touch on the
lever. Harry (6910) |
| That was the problem.
The guy I got it from was using a belt that was too short, and so
was in the habit of not locking the flat belt over center because it
would have pulled too tightly. C (6911) |
| Drive belt
conversion |
| I have been considering conversion of my flat belt 9" A to use
poly-v belts. I was looking at the pulleys and I think that the
spindle pulley could be re-machined to allow 5 steps, using a 9/16
wide poly-v belt. The drive pulley would have to be replaced with a
new one. I haven't done any serious calculations yet. (maybe over
the holiday) Has anyone done anything like this? It could
potentially give 20 speeds, and much better belt performance than
the leather belt. Just sort of thinking out loud. Pete
(8267) |
| I dunno maybe
I'm weird, but I'm still using the leather belt that came with my
lathe [which is grungy with probably 50 years of filth], still
waiting for it to fail to install a new one, and taking a .125 cut
[.250 OD reduction on a 2" workpiece] at .0063 feed in some fairly
tough steel [A2] doesn't give me a problem. IF I use a good cutting
tool. Am I just lucky, or what? (8271) |
| lurch: I am
like you I like the leather belt especially since it will stall if
one happened to make a mistake. It is easier than replacing broken
parts of the lathe. Randy (8273) |
| I too am a
fan of leather belts, at least partially because that is the way SB
designed the lathe, and if it was good enough for many generations
of professional machinists it ought to be good enough for me.
However my heavy 10 with its 43 year old, oil soaked leather belt,
can't come close to the kind of cut you describe. I assume you are
in back gear, given a HSS (rather than carbide) tool and a 2"
workpiece diameter, but I still don't believe I could come close to
your numbers. I'm wondering if my view of belt tension is different
than others. The book says tighten until it just doesn't slip, but I
have been reluctant to try that, given that the oil on the belt
changes the equation. If you use the "belt deflection in the middle
of the span" test, how much does yours deflect? Actually I have a
new leather belt with one end skivved, and a tube of Barge cement. I
am just waiting for something to push me over the edge from a
reasonably functional lathe to either a better lathe with a nice,
new, leather belt or a lathe with no belt, depending on how the
fitting and gluing goes. I expect that on the next job where the
slipping becomes a nuisance I will knuckle under, cut the old belt
off, and have a go at gluing up the new one. Frank
(8276) |
| It's pretty
snug--maybe 1/8 or 1`.4 depending on how heavy I lean on it. I would
like to get some input from more experienced members on this--sounds
like maybe I have it too tight? the way SB designed the lathe, and
if it was good enough for many generations of professional
machinists it ought to be good enough for me. However my heavy 10
with its 43 year old, oil soaked leather belt, can't come close to
the kind of cut you describe. I assume you are in back gear, given a
HSS (rather than carbide) tool and a 2" workpiece diameter, but I
still don't believe I could come close to your numbers. I'm
wondering if my view of belt tension is different than others. The
book says tighten until it just doesn't slip, but I have been
reluctant to try that, given that the oil on the belt changes the
equation. If you use the "belt deflection in the middle of the span"
test, how much does yours deflect? of Barge cement. I am just
waiting for something to push me over the edge from a reasonably
functional lathe to either a better lathe with a nice, new, leather
belt or a lathe with no belt, depending on how the fitting and
gluing goes. I expect that on the next job where the slipping
becomes a nuisance I will knuckle under, cut the old belt off, and
have a go at gluing up the new one.
(8283) |
| Lurch. I
was told by the gentleman that delivered my SB to tighten the belt
just enough so it doesn't slip in the slowest speed when using the
back gear and taking a cut. And always let the tension off when not
in use. I just took his word for it. Seems to do ok. Bill
(8284) |
| Lurch I was
reading in some of the SB books on this and can't remember where I
read it, but it said to tighten it till when you push on the top
with your finger it will only go 1". Clint (8288) |
| I have been
doing some more research on this. I made some measurements and "IF"
I was to reduce each of the larger steps by 1/2 (giving 5 steps
total) I would end up with a speed chart that looks like this:
Direct Backgear 1270 987 750 566 446 250 189 145 108 86 692 573 410
308 244 134 110 81 59 50 This gives a speed range of 20 speeds,
although several are very close together. (this could be changed by
slight size adjustment on the pulleys) All are sized to give equal
tension on the belt without tensioner adjustment and using the
original tension system. In reading the responses to my first post I
see that several people have had good results with the flat belts. I
have had mixed results, but find that the belt slips or comes off
the pulleys more than I like. I'd like to hear more on how they set
up the belt, tension it and maintain the belt. I once had a SB 9A
that was v-belt drive, and it was a quantum leap better than the
flat belt. (IMHO) Much more power to the spindle and the belt stayed
on too!! Some of my reasoning for this possible conversion are: 1)I
want to get better performance than I currently get with the flat
belt. 2)V-belt pulleys are hard to come by, and expensive.( although
I may make a set like the article in the latest MW) 3)The poly-v
belt is fairly cheap and available 4)Finer adjustment range (better
when turning larger diameters) 5)The conversion could be done on the
lathe itself ( with a little fiddling) 6)DC or VFD drives are very
do-able but expensive ( I live in Canada and every thing is 1.5x
$US) I'd appreciate some more comment on this. Pete (8290) |
| Pete, I
have a "nearly new 1946 model 9A" that came with the original flat
leather belt. It broke soon after putting into use about 10 years
back. I replaced it with a leather belt butt sewn spliced (per
Machinery's Handbook) and the performance has been perfect. Perhaps
not enough attention has been paid to the pulley crowns. On these
lathes the spindle and countershaft pulleys are crowned. Slippage
will tend to polish and wear the pulleys, making slip offs more
easy. I have never had a slip off, only stalls under too much
cutting load. The pulley surfaces are still as machined and not
polished. Running the finger nail over the surface you can feel the
tool ridges easily. RichD (8292) |
| Pete, I've
long thought that a multi-v belt would be an excellent choice for a
modern flat-belt alternative. No experience with it, but it just
makes sense. Regular v-belts take up too much radial space
especially when you have to change steps. Tension could probably be
less on a multi-v belt so the CI spindle bearings would last longer.
I've kept a project on the "todo" list to make a multi-v replacement
if I ever found another set of cone pulleys that I could machine. I
wouldn't want to use the only ones I have. If anybody has any spares
let me know... On the down-side, are there any issues with crud
getting stuck in the corners of the grooves? Seems like it might be
hard to keep clean, but then again, neatness counts! I thought I
recalled someone on the list is running a multi-v belt (inside out?)
on his stock cone pulleys. I'm currently running a 1/8" thick, 1"
wide(?) synthetic continuous flat belt and am pretty happy with it.
I was using a thinner belt before and it would creep off the pulley
when strained. Doesn't happen with the thicker belt. I'm also
running a VFD and inverter-duty motor so I can get a pretty good
speed range. Paul R. (8293) |
| If you are
getting poor performance from your flat belt, either it's in poor
condition or it isn't adjusted correctly. I recently saw a 13"
Southbend take a 1/2" cut in one pass (brought a piece of CRS from
1-3/8" dia to 3/8" dia). This was with a flat belt. If you check the
original SB manual, they tell you the maximum cut for each size
lathe. I believe it was 1/2" for the 13" 7/16" for the 11" 3/8" for
the 10", etc. I'd make sure that I had everything working correctly
on my lathe before I started hacking it up. For more speeds, I'd go
with a VFD. c (8295) |
| Texalon flat
belt |
| My
Heavy Ten lathe came with a 1/16" thick X 1-!/4" wide flat belt
South Bend calls a Texalon flat belt. Its a combination of textile
and extruded Nylon that has skived ends and glued. My belt has been
cut and rejoined a couple of times and almost looks like its heat
bonded. SB wants over $100 for one plus special cement. I checked
all the archives and found no reference. Anybody know about these
belts. I wonder if I can skive it and cement with Gorilla glue on
maybe heat bond. Walt
(9240) |
| Tony
Griffiths on his EXCELLENT lathe resource site
http://www.lathes.co.uk/
offers flat belting made up to custom size. Whether he will export
to the US, I couldn't say, be he gives very good fast service.
Ordering made up doea mean some dismantling to fit, but he also
offers joinable balata belting and the joining clips. If SB users
have not seen this site, I can recommend the vast amount of info re
SB lathes. Len (9241) |
| The best
belts that I have found are an off yellow color with metal
interlocking ends (like fingers and you just stick a piece of 12
gauge wire through both). They NEVER wear out. They are made to
length by "Terry Bearings" in St Petersburg FL. I have no idea of
what material they are made from (and I really don't care). I have
them made to length and the cost is about 16.00 each. Yes, they go
click -click but they do not wear the sheaves. Best I have ever
found. (9242) |
| Forget
about South Bend and Texalon belts. We just went over this topic
about 10 days ago. Check my post (post 9076 from 2-3-03) which will
tell you where to get high quality genuine leather belts for about
$34.00. Perk (9244) |
|
www.mcmaster.com
has 1-1/4"x3/16" flat leather belts for less than $6.00/ft. many
sizes and clipper laces (other types of belts belts too) hope this
helps all! I see some paying almost $40.00 on ebay (9246) |
| Belt tentioner |
| I am
studying how to install the belt tensioner on my 9A. it came with
the lever connected to the headstock and the linkage connected to
the motor mount/pulley assembly. oddly it had a bent hinge pin. I am
making a new pin and figured that if I could see what an original
looked like, it would be a little better. The ARMY manual shows the
lever as being on the motor mount and the linkage connected to the
lathe. is there a preference ? it does not seem like a big deal, but
is there a reason why one location is better than another? Dave
(11180) |
| Dave, I just
went thru this. The headstock is the correct location for the lever.
I think the Army manual is wrong, another page in the same manual
shows it on the headstock. Also I think that reaching over the lathe
would be a bit inconvenient. If you could make it work. I couldn't.
Larry
(11182) |
| All 4 if the
9A's I've owned had the handle on the headstock. I've seen several
10K's with the handle on the drive side. This may be the cause of
some of the confusion. Pete
(11183) |
| Odd. I did find another page in the manual that had them reversed.
One I'm not excited about is that the motor is only 1/4 hp. But by
the time I get it all together and running, I may have run across
either a bigger single phase or have put together a phase converter.
Dave
(11185) |
| Dave, There
are plenty of reasonably good illustrations of the tensioner on Tony
Griffith's site in the SB section.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/page3.html
Len
(11187) |
| Flat belt or
VBelt pulley |
| As mentioned the
other day, I'm now an owner of my first SouthBend, and among all the
things I don't know about this machines, the thing I know the least
about is the belt ! So 1. Where does a guy get more ? (I'm SURE
I need a new one ) 2. How does he join it ? 3. Is there a VBelt
pulley available ? Alan (11432) |
| Any
good leather supply or tack store (i.e. horse accessories) should be
able to get you belt stock. The most common way to join the belt is
with alligator clamps, they look like two halves of a hinge with
teeth. These are crimped on to the ends of the belt and a pin is run
through to join the hinge. The nice thing about this setup is it's
quick and you can easily remove the belt for moving etc. The down
side is the belt will "clack, clack, clack" as the clips go over the
pulleys. The best method is to glue or lace it together. This is
where How To Run A Lathe instructions than I could ever hope to give
:-) The later 10" lathes came with v-belt drive, unfortunately I
don't think they are compatible with the 9". Norman Eastwood
published an article in the Dec 2000 issue of Model Engineers'
Workshop on fitting a v-belt drive to a 9" (it may be in the SB
archives, I don't remember). It requires some castings be made and
some modifications to the belt tension lever, but it looks like a
well thought out project. Of course the current problem being you
need the lathe running to make the pulleys :-( A third suggestion
would be a synthetic belt. I've never used one but reports are they
work great and last forever, a little higher priced than leather
though. Sorry for the long post, but I tend to ramble on occasion. Jeff (11434) |
| Look
in the Files section after my last post. See Alligator Lacing and Vee Belt Drive. Jeff
(11435) |
| First place to
look is McMaster Carr. they have detail of types, different
materials and the stuff to join them. even if you don't buy there,
you can get the pictures and ideas. home brew are to lace them or to
lap/glue them. Dave
(11439) |
| Can you
suggest a synthetic belt and where does one get one? Frank
(11442) |
| Tony
Griffiths has them in UK if necessary. Go to
www.lathes.co.uk for
ordering info. I use one of his and it's first class, with hardly
any "tick" at all from the included alligator clip. He can also
supply endless synthetics, to order, with no tick at all. Len Smith
Flat belt or VBelt pulley - Newbie questions Can you suggest a
synthetic belt and where does one get one? Frank
(11443) |
| Cincinnati
transmission is one place, info in the faq. I have also gotten it
locally through motion industries/berry bearing. McMaster Carr.
dennis(11444) |
| Try
http://www.baltimorebelting.com About $60 for my belt, which included a Qt can
of contact cement. Mark (11466) |
| You can
substitute an automotive multi-V belt for a 1" wide leather belt.
Just run it upside-down. Measure the length and visit your auto
parts store. Leather is available from tack shops (saddles related
horse stuff), or IIRC Scott Logan www.loganact.com can supply
leather in any length. Note that the smooth side (tanned side, the
side that the fur was growing from) of the belt *must* be in contact
with the pulley surface. You can skive and glue it, use a "clipper"
device, or lace it. See "How to Run a Lathe". Not sure, but an
upside-down multi-V belt works on flat pulleys. Just curious do
you plan on painting your South Bend lathe "Shoptask yellow" so they
match? Ken
(11480) |
| Installing a
belt |
| 1. Find the
size I need for my 10" heavy underdrive. 2. Order from McMaster-Carr.
3. Stop by the shoe repair shop in my town to get glue. 4. Then
what? Do I have to cut/splice the belt specially? (at an angle to
get more glue coverage). Jason
(13321) |
| That is
exactly correct, you taper the joint from one end to the other (it
shows this in How to Run a Lathe). I did it the easy way (but more
pricey) - I bought the composite belt from SB. for the composite
belt there are two glues, one for the leather to leather part of the
joint, and one for the plastic (?) to plastic part By the way, I
have both types of glue for the composite belts. If anyone out there
needs the two glues, let me know and you can have them for the cost
of the postage. John (13322) |
| Jason I'm
playing with a belt for my 9" underdrive. What material is your
belt? What kind of glue are you using? I have a serpentine belt from
a F150 V8 The joint is holding for now but it could be better It is
a good positive drive and the belts are free from the auto
recyclers. I just have to perfect the joint. Max
(13323) |
| Thanks
for the glue offer, I might take you up on it! and to the other guy,
my belt is leather, with a black/clear side, I have no idea how they
installed it, because I can't see where the splice is for the
black/clear side, but I do see the splice for the leather side. I'm
not joking, honest it's really weird how whoever did this. Jason
(13328) |
| I ordered a
belt from Baltimore Belting, http://www.baltimorebelting.com I provided the
width of the "flat" on the cone pulley and the released and tight
lengths around the cone pulleys. They provided a belt, pre-cut in
layers, and glue. Installed with no problems and works the same way
- no problems. Approx $65 total, including shipping. Mark (13333) |
| Did you check
the faq? Did you search the archive? It's been well covered. dennis
(13334) |
| Dennis,
I'm an "old hand" at this internet thing, I did all the searching
before I posted a question. Jason
(13335) |
| Jason- so if
you read the faq section about the splicing belts, what part isn't
clear? if something is not clear, please tell us so we can correct
the faq for next person... "Splicing Belts ... Skiving and Gluing:
Each end of the belt is skived (scarfed) at complimentary compound
angles to generate a larger gluing surface. The easiest way to
accomplish this is with a block of wood dadoed to accept each end of
the belt side by side. The belt needs to have a « twist put in it to
make the splice on the proper sides. Use another piece of wood to
clamp the leather. Using a sander or VERY sharp plane to taper the
block and leather. Common scarf angles are approximately 8:1 and a
skew angle of 30 degrees. This creates a triangular taper that when
glued is is almost as strong as the original belt. Barge cement is
used to glue the belt." (13336) |
| Dennis,
Yes actually, it would probably be better to place the FAQ in the
files section, and not the links section. When one sees a hyperlink
labeled "links" one assumes that those links are off-site, as in not
relating to the yahoo south bend lathe group. So I didn't bother
looking at the "links" hyperlink, I simply did a search in the
broadest of terms... belts. That turned up many results, but after
the fifth page of going through these posts, none were concerning my
the 10" underdrive. Incidentally, I stopped by my local library
today, they were having a book sale... and found a 1940 manual of
"How to Run a Lathe" and you wouldn't believe the price I paid for
it... 25 cents. Upon looking at the original price of the book, on
the first page, it read "25 cents" Isn't that funny? It's all about
inflation over the years, and depreciation over the years! Jason
(13341) |
| You go about
installing a belt by buying a replacement with the link. I buy them
for 15.00 and they run FOREVER. Unless you are a total restoration
purist or find the click click click offensive I can see no logical
reason for a glued together oem style belt. They are available to your exact size
requirements.
(13343) |
| Robert, What
belts!?! I can't stop looking at all the classic bike photos! I'll
highly consider that site for my belt fix, definitely worth a try,
and I do not like that click... clink sound either, although I was a
machinist during the early 1900's in a former life. Jason
(13345) |
| Jason, if you
live near a real live shoe repairman, or in that part of the country
that still has saddle shops, both of these places would be able to
sell you Barge Cement and scarf cut the belt. I have a place up the
street that charged me $5.00, and was even familiar with why I
wanted it. Bill (13353) |
| Bill, you are
kidding me, that was a really cheap price, and very nice of him. My
town's real live shoe guy has old tools and everything, he sells the
red-wing brand shoes. Though I never visited the place, I bet you $5
that he would offer the same services, probably the same price too.
His shop is about four or five blocks from me. I never heard of
Barge cement until I joined this group! thanks for all the info
everyone, I've got a lot of posts today, because I'm under the
weather, and I'm trying to find some good deals on some broken toy
soldiers on eBay to fix up, I don't normally get to hang out on the
web this much as I have today, Jason
(13356) |
| Long term belt
care |
| A) What is a good method for cleaning
belts? B) Is a belt dressing recommended
(1-beeswax+1-rosin+1-turpentine)? C) What is the recommended
application of Neat's-Foot Oil? I have a new belt from MCS and would
like to keep it in top shape as they are not cheap. The belt seems
to be "dry" and not very flexible.
Paul
(14083) |
| Here in the
UK there are proprietary belt dressing "sticks" available. These are
cardboard tubes with a solid dressing inside, the tube wears away as
the dressing is applied. I know someone who uses this material, so
I'll try to find out some details. On another list I saw a reference
to Corliss steam engines, and looking them up I found this page
which includes some mention of leather belts (scroll to bottom). Not
much use I'm afraid, but maybe interesting!
http://www.geocities.com/espee9164/corliss.html
Len
(14088) |
| The new
leather belts are not very flexible, that's why the spec a minimum
pulley diameter. The Neats-Foot oil will soften it and preserve it
(keeps the water out). A brass brush (suede brush) cleans debris off
the belt. The frequency of oiling will depend on the environment and
initial dryness of the belt. Check it every month and apply oil to
keep the belt pliable only if necessary, after a few application it
will be needed less often. Rub it in good so there isn't a greasy
feel to the leather. The neat's-foot oil can be bought at a local
grain store selling horse feed or at a tack shop, it's used on
leather bridles. JP
(14102) |
| I
finished my re-belting project and was very pleased with how
smooth/quiet the headstock run. I ended up with 2 7" long splices
and clamped and glued with Armstrong 520 adhesive which so far seems
to work fine. I was afraid my alligator clipped syn. belt would pull
apart half way through a how soon job. Stirboy (14104) |
| First, let me
disclaim ANY knowledge of the "care of leather" subject before I
throw any gasoline on this fire. Oklahoma is cowboy country and I
ain't one but one happened to be there when I was about to use
neatsfoot oil to soften up the leather seat on a 1920's vintage
typist's chair I was trying to restore for my office. The reaction
was about what I would expect had I been burning a flag, denouncing
motherhood and urinating on the apple pie. The lecture I got had to
do with neatsfoot oil is to be used only on new leather. Repeated
application will degrade and eventually destroy the leather. "Saddle
soap" is the preferred method for maintaining leather after the
initial oil treatment. After the furor, the guy insisted on taking
the chair home where it would be safe from the likes of me. He
brought it back about ten years ago with the formerly "so dry and
hard it would crack if you touched it" leather seat now soft and
pliable. It has been in daily use with an "whenever I think about
it" cleaning with saddle soap. It has suffered no further
degradation and has molded itself to my chubby backside quite
nicely. Long story, short point: Is neatsfoot oil really what you
should use?? WDSmith
(14107) |
| In my
business we use a mixture of lanolin and neat's-foot oil as a dressing
for leather covered books. Some of the leather is very old (like
3-400 years) and this dressing keeps the hinges pliable. So you
certainly can put neat's-foot oil on old leather. (But I wouldn't want
to sit on it unless I want to buy a new pair of trousers each time!)
I recently replaced the leather belt on my 10K with a new one, using
alligator clips (I like the ker-chunk) and it works just fine and I
see no reason to oil it to soften it. It seems plenty pliable. What
have others done with new belts? Will neatsfoot oil lengthen the
belt's life? Does it stretch it any? Frank
(14110) |
| I also have
no experience with leather drive belts, but i am familiar with
leather care. I take part in US Civil War reenacting, and neatsfoot
oil is okay to initially treat leather, but it is not recommended
for regular applications. supposedly it will cause the leather to
continue to soften to the point it starts degrading. the museum
curators say they can tell when leather gear has been regularly
treated with neatsfoot oil as it will almost fall apart in your
hands. Lexol seems to be the treatment of choice (for boots, belts,
holsters, saddlebags, saddles, etc.), and it is recommended to apply
it sparingly and wipe off any excess. otherwise it attracts dirt and
dust and will cause the leather to deteriorate. Lexol is usually
available at places that sell saddles and tack. I would think in a
metal-working shop you could get by with one treatment a year. in a
wood-working shop with a lot of dry dust, you would probably need to
use it a little more often. andy b.
(14119) |
| Motor drive
v-belt question |
| I need a new
V belt for my SB heavy 10". I ordered a 5/8" wide v- belt from a
lawn equipment dealer, but it doesn't seem to fit right. It seems to
he a hair to narrow such that the bottom of the v contacts the
bottom of the pulley groove. Has anyone tried ordering the original
belt from LeBlond? How much was it? Does anyone know where else I
can find the proper belt. I live in a suburban area, so all the
automotive shop are chains (PepBoy's, etc.) and don't know their
head from their you know what. If anyone knows a good place to get
belts online please let me know. Zach
(14176) |
| I am running
a DAYCO L542...16RL1065.... seems to work fine.. came from a local
"farm supply" store. stirboy cost was probably in the $6/7 range ---
ztarum (14178) |
| There should
be a number on the old belt like 5B430 This would be a B size 43
inch belt. Not sure what specific size you need but it is a B width
(5/8"). This way you don't need to depend on the sales clerk. Get a
name brand like Gates, they will cost about $15 or $20 but will last
and grip well. You can order them online from MSC or McMaster, I
think MSC might have a minimum order requirement. I got mine from
the local Auto Supply store. Snowmobiles use heavy belts also.
JP (14181) |
| That's a 42
inch, size B belt, 5/8" I just picked a number at random because I
couldn't remember what size mine was in my last post. Stay away from
offshore belts! JP (14190) |
| V belt
Question |
| I'm
a new 9" owner. I need to change my V belt
on the headstock. My question is how do you disassemble the
headstock, what to do I need to watch out for, and how do I put it
back together. What I need is a step by step procedure (I'm an old
aircraft mech and that's what I'm use to). Does anyone have such a
procedure or know where I can get one? Thanks for your time and I
appreciate any and all help. I purchased my lathe though Ebay. If
you'd like to look at it, the page will still be available for a few
more days at the following link. Tim (14179) |
| Beautiful
machine, there, Tim, and an excellent bargain, assuming good
condition. However, are you certain it's a V-belt? My software won't
let me zoom just yet, but by rights the headstock should be a
flat-belt (unless Pete had it in Canada for a while, LOL)
Johnny (14180) |
| SB Lathe
Lubrication Chart (Chart 6514) has a short piece on spindle removal.
I don't know if this chart is still available from SB (Le Blond),
but you could find out from Rose. I do know that getting the spindle
out is just the first step. The back gear shaft/assembly has to come
off too, in order to get a solid, continuous belt back on (flat or
V) without splicing. Doing that requires removing both tapered pins
from the back gear shaft. This procedure is NOT explained in the
above Chart. I was unable to get one of the taper pins out, and so
could not put on a continuous V-belt. I'd already heard of the
adjustable link belt type of belt and so went in search of it. Found
two brands, Power Twist by Fenner Drives and Accu-Link by Jason
Industrial. I'm running the Accu-Link "B" sized belt, nominally
5/8" width. However, these belts are the "B" size, which is larger
than what the SB V-belts are: "L" series. The belt house I was
working with assured me both brands only made "B" sized link belts,
so I had no choice but to try it. It works. The belt rides high,
half out of the V grooves, but seems to drive just fine. Can't tell
whether its quieter or smoother than a rubber V belt as I'd only
just switched in the V-belt pulleys from flat belt, so never ran it
with the rubber V belt. But the link belts are supposed to reduce
vibration. Short version: if you use a link belt, you don't have to
take the spindle out. May have the advantage of running smoother as
well. Rick (14182) |
| I will back
Rick up on this as I have been running the power twist type on our
Enco 12x36 for about four years now since the OEM V belts failed and
I did not want to strip it down to replace them. These belts will
last some 3 to 4 times longer than regular V belts will especially
if there is a lot of oil flying around. JWE (14187) |
| I got more
questions on these 'twist belts'. Where do you buy one? What size? Tim
(14188) |
| McMaster-Carr,
H.F. and almost any other tooling and/or belt supplier I can think
of. Get the "B" size. JWE (14189) |
| IF you could
get the "L" size, that would be the right size. My understanding
from the belt house I bought from, they only make them in the "B"
size. So, if anyone actually knows where to get one in the "L" size,
please let me know. I got mine from McGuire Bearing, in Portland,
OR. If you have a major belt/bearing supplier in your area, try them
(several of the smaller retailers around here get their stock from
McGuire), if for some reason you don't want to go to McMaster for
online ordering. I didn't try H.F. I did find the 1/2" size at WoodCrafters, a specialty woodworking tool house in Portland.
They're used for replacement belts on woodworking tools. I got a 6
ft section, and had more than a foot left over. I think this is the
shortest they sell it in. Rick (14191) |
| Is this what
you guys are talking about??
http://www.grainger.com/
I no longer have assess to Grainger but knew they handle about
everything so I ran a search and this came up. This is the 5/8 size
and they also have it in 1/2 inch as well. Tim
(14194) |
| By the way,
this is called POWERTWIST, Grainger Part# 5A548, on page 256 of
their catalog for those who might be interested and have a Grainger
account. Comes in 6 foot length. $38.40
http://www.grainger.com Tim
(14195) |
| I had a 9" SB
with a V belt,4 step pulley on the spindle. Vastly superior to the 3
speed flat belt. I needed a new belt and bought a replacement right
here in this small town. Removing the spindle to replace the belt
gives you a chance to inspect the spindle and bearing areas, and
clean and adjust the thrust ring, etc. It is an easy job. You
couldn't give me one of those link belt things. And, I consider them
a safety hazard, too. Don't hesitate to drive the spindle out.
Changing the belt is no more than a 2 hour job. I liked that V belt
scheme so well, I am toying with making/altering the pulleys on one
of my 10" machines. Harold(14197) |
| That would be
the PowerTwist brand of it, yes. I notice their specs say 5/8" and
includes the belt type as: B(5L). If this belt is fairly true to
sizing and nominal tolerances, it may fit nicely. The Accu-Link
brand belt I got also calls itself out as 5/8" but measures at
0.670", which is why it doesn't fully engage in the "L" series South
Bend Vee pulleys. I have a PowerTwist A(4L) belt (tried it first,
didn't fit, too small), that calls itself out at 1/2". It measures
0.510". So... If PowerTwist belts are more accurately sized than
Accu-Link, the PowerTwist belt may fit much better. Interesting
also, to me at least, is that a month ago when I looked at Graingers,
they didn't have PowerTwist, but did have three other brands
including Accu-Link. Now I cannot find Accu-Link on their site or
the other two brands. Rick (14201) |
| Flat belt
questions |
| I am just getting
my heavy 10" running. It has a synthetic flat belt that is glued
into one piece. when I first tried to engage the belt tension lever
the belt instantly walked off the bottom pulley. I did some checking
and found that the the two pulleys were not aligned. So I moved the
bottom pulley over to line up with the top pulley. Now if I am very
careful engaging the belt tension lever the belt will stay on.
Otherwise I have to engage the tension lever first then start the
motor. Am I correct in assuming that I should be able to leave the
motor running and engage the spindle by tensioning the belt? I had
to move the bottom pulley over about 3/8". Could my problem be that
the belt took a set from being run by the previous owner with the
pulleys out of align? (14311) |
| Always turn the
power off when moving the belt from one step to another. Shift the
belt to the desired speed then engage the tension lever then turn on
power. Make sure the step pulleys are in perfect alignment or the
belt will not ride correctly.
Bill (14312) |
| You have
crowned pulleys so they should not be shifted or engaged with the
motor running, flat pulleys can be shifted with the motor running.
Check your alignment and parallelism, with crowned pulleys and a
flat belt in good shape the belt should automatically go to the
center of the pulley when run. Make sure the idler shaft is parallel
to the bed both vertically and front to back. If your belt is
stretched unevenly it won't ride on the pulleys correctly and you
should consider changing it. It should measure 61.5" in length.
Leather belts with a nylon core are about $6/ft from McMasters, I
personally prefer these over all synthetic. You can use metal lacing
or glue them. JP (14313) |
| The parallel
lacing (14314) |
| Would not
using a metal lace create a problem pulley along with some noise?
Tony
(14315) |
| If you are talking about the the metal gripper clips, (
a mating set of clips that pierce the belt and are joined by a piece
of hard wire running through their overlapping openings) they create
a ticking sound as they run across the flat pulleys. this is not
usually troublesome or objectionable - it's just a fact of life with
belts joined this way. many flat belts in industry are/were joined
this way because it is quick to install, and fairly easy to remove
the belt and then re-connect it. Belt lacing is typically a
crisscross pattern of threading the flexible lacing through a
pattern of holes in both ends of the belt to secure them together. I
have not seen this done with metal lacing material.
(14320) |
| JP Both you
and Bill Collins say not to move the belt with the motor is running.
I understand that you can't (or shouldn't) try to move the belt
between steps with tension on the belt, whether the motor is running
or not, but is there a reason not to relieve belt tension (using the
tensioning lever), move the belt, and then re-engage belt tension,
all with the motor running? That is the way I was taught by an older
machinist, perhaps a holdover from line shaft days, and it seems to
cause no problem on my heavy 10" with a skivved and glued leather
belt. Frank
(14321) |
| Do you really
want to risk getting your fingers caught between the belt and a
moving pulley? The self alignment of the crowned pulley only goes so
far. Engaging tension with the motor running makes the belt act like
a clutch and can cause premature wear in small areas. With clean
pulleys and belt, proper alignment, small loading and a slow
engagement you may not have a problem. During the line shaft days
the main shaft ran continuously and had flat pulleys. Flat pulleys
are typically larger and use less tension than the crowned ones for
the same load. Flat pulleys are designed for 'shifting gears',
crowned pulleys are not. I would imagine someone who was used to the
old method just continued that way not considering the difference.
JP (14322) |
| Using the
belt as a clutch can lead to areas of uneven friction which may not
be visible on a leather belt. The poor finish on the cut may be
considered to be dull tool or loose belt which would not necessarily
be the case. You would be polishing small areas of the belt each
time you engage it with the motor running. Besides that, having a
digit thumping between the belt and pulley makes for a lousy finish
also. JP (14323) |
| Frank My
motor is always running when I engage the belt. Clint (14327) |
| JP wrote:
(snip) During the line shaft days the main shaft ran continuously
and had flat pulleys. Flat pulleys are typically larger and use less
tension than the crowned ones for the same load. Flat pulleys are
designed for 'shifting gears', crowned pulleys are not. I would
imagine someone who was used to the old method just continued that
way not considering the difference. AND line shaft pulleys were
shifted with big levers, not hands. Also, quite often, a pulley
change involved the belt being shifted to a free wheeling pulley
first until the 'speed' pulley change was completed, sort of
"de-clutching". Len
(14329) |
| 9" 4-step belt
question |
| What would be the optimum V-Belt for the 4 step pulley for the 9"
Model A? The Gates b-52 seems to be the required option, however a
bit snug for speed changes.
(14929) |
| I believe the
SB 9 Vee belts are "L" series, rather than "B" series. 5/8" top
width, but lightly thinner section. The SB parts list I have shows
5/8" belts in lengths from 38" to 55". I'm using a "B" section belt
on mine, but its one of the adjustable twist-link belts. Its tight
in the Vees, but seems to work okay. Reason for using the wider belt
is the twist-link belts aren't made in the "L" series width.
Rick (14931) |
| I just
replaced mine, A gates 5L470 is the correct one, 5/8wide and 47
inches long go to Napa auto parts they have them $15.00. Fritz (14935) |
| Replacement
flat belt for heavy 10 |
| My heavy
10 is in need of a replacement flat belt, a fellow member informed
me via email that McMaster-Carr sells them, however it seems that
the selection is a bit wider than I'd anticipated. I'd prefer not to
replace it with a lace-up or crimp together belt, even if that means
a lot more work to install it - my headstock bearings need
adjustment anyway and I've torn up 2 of these belts in 4 years.
Apparently the NBR Rubber is the only type available in an endless
belt. Is this a good choice or should I revert to an lace-up belt of
a different material (Leather, urethane, etc...)
(16744) |
| I have been
using McMaster's NBR belt now for about 10 years. It's great. Their
stock # is 2296K3, for $2.32/ft. They will join it for you for a
small fee. RZ
(16747) |
| The belt on
the heavy 10 feeds through the bed and headstock casting. I don't
see how an endless belt can be installed. The leather bonded to a
nylon core can be glued as well as laced. The Southbend replacement
belt is this type. You will need 2 adhesives, 1 for the nylon core
and another for the leather. McMasters sells the adhesive as well
and it is less costly than from LeBlond. JP
(16750) |
| I replace my
flat belt with one from McMaster Carr about 7 years ago. DO NOT
join the belt until you have passed it over the head stock pulley
cones and under and back up the the head stock. Once joined (if you
have a cabinet model lathe) you won't be able to attach the belt.
After passing the belt around you glue it per directions. Its no big
deal. Eric (16752) |
| LeBlond Belt
|
| After letting the
LeBlond belt sit, after it was glued for 8 hours, and trying to
adjust the tension screw which almost ran out of space, to reduce
the distance from the spindle to the drive pulley the lathe was
tested. The garage temperature was 38 degrees, the belt separated.
No damage was done to the belt, can it be re-gluded and should I put
a heat lamp on it to help the curing process. If one were to use the
leather glue on a leather belt does it have to be laced also.
Thinking of this as a backup incase. Don't want to spend the $100
plus for a new LeBlond belt. Tried the directions given to MSC for
their belt but couldn't get there. Vinnie (16799) |
| Clean of the old
adhesive as best you can. Heat will definitely be required. If the
belt is a composite belt (plastic core) you have to glue each part
separately and with different glue. Clamping the joint while it
cures is very helpful also. If the belt is too long you can scarf it
back some and start with a clean joint. Heat and clamping pressure
should do the trick. JP
(16800) |
| Length of
strap in 13" |
| I would like
to know what is the normal length for a 13" 1 hp lathe, i cant
''bend'' the strap because it is too short so ill have to change
it.
(17028) |
| If you are
referring to the leather belt it is 61.5 inches finished. You can get
info in the files section under SouthbendlatheFAQ.html I hope that is what you want. JP (17029) |
| Don't
forget to undo the belt tension adjuster before Trying a new belt. I
think its 7/8 inch and located near the door handle (turned from the
underside). You can probably guess why I know this. I had a spare
belt lying around and when the day came I cursed myself for ordering
it too short, almost pitched it until it hit me as to what I had
done. Roger
(17053) |
| V Belt
Replacement |
| Is there an
openable V belt made that I could use to replace the spindle V-Belt
on my back-drive 9 inch SB? The present, solid belt is still
working, but starting to unravel. When it fails I do not want to
have to pull the spindle to replace it. I would much prefer a belt
that can be opened and reconnected. Steve (17410) |
| There,
McMaster Carr offers two possible choices. They are the "Twist-Lock"
and "Adjust-A-Link" belts. These are considerably more expensive
that regular belts but will do what you want. I Think there is a
link to their website in the "Links" section. Webb
(17411) |
| There is a
company that sells round belts the also make they also make the
Power Twist Plus. www.Fennerindustrial.com. Stephen (17416) |
| The belt size
specified for the SB9, is a bit thinner (L) than what is available
(B) in Power Twist or Adjust-Link, but either will work. You need
the 5/8" (5) size belt, not the 1/2" (4). I went thru all this
months back, tried the size 4 Power Twist, but it slips. The 5 size
belt of both brands doesn't fit all the way in the Vees, but it
transmits enough power. I've had the Vee belt slit some, but maybe
that's good, since if it didn't slip something else might have to
give. These are common items and can be found in a lot of belt
houses, if you're in any kind of larger metro area, or they can
order them. Rick (17423) |
| Question on
Belt Drives |
| Looking for some
opinions on this. Do you guys feel the V-belt drive headstocks
perform significantly better than the flat belt headstocks? I
currently have a flat belt headstock which occasionally slips during
operations. I've tightened it about as much as I'm comfortable with.
I've heard V-belts don't slip, but they have the downside of being
difficult to change. Normally this wouldn't be big deal but it seems
lately I've had that flat belt apart more than it's been together.
And as a result I have come to appreciate that metal alligator joint
in it. Since I'm completely slipping under load under certain
conditions Id bet I'm losing some power under a lot of conditions.
(17812) |
| Could
be your belt has absorbed a certain amount of oil. Degrease it and
apply some belt dressing that is designed to stop the slippage. Used
this when I was in High school many years ago. Bruce At 08:02 AM
3/18/2004 -0500, you wrote: Looking for some opinions on this. Do
you guys feel the V-belt drive headstocks perform significantly
better than the flat belt headstocks? I currently have a flat belt
headstock which occasionally slips during operations. I've tightened
it about as much as I'm comfortable with. I've heard V-belts don't
slip, but they have the downside of being difficult to change.
Normally this wouldn't be big deal but it seems lately I've had that
flat belt apart more than it's been together. And as a result I have
come to appreciate that metal alligator joint in it. Since I'm
completely slipping under load under certain conditions Id bet I'm
losing some power under a lot of conditions. Webb (17813) |
| V-belts don't
slip much. There has been debate about whether that is a good thing,
or at least about circumstances where it isn't, such as if the belt
doesn't slip, something else might "give" and possibly break. I got
tired of the flat belt slipping and converted to V-belt. I'm
extremely happy with it. I couldn't get the countershaft out, so
could not use a continuous belt had to go to the link-belt type. I'm
extremely happy with that as well. Finding the V-belt pulleys can
take a while. They come up now and then on eBay. Took me about a
year, but I'm glad I persevered. Rick (17815) |
| How
would you recommend I degrease? My belt is old as the hills and all
leather. That's one of the reasons I don't want to tighten it
anymore. I need a new one but would like to put it off if I can.
Money is always an issue with my hobbies. (17816) |
| Sounds to me
as if you have the slick side of the belt to the pulleys or the belt
is to hard and oily to grip good. A flat belt works just as good as
a V belt and will last many times longer and is much easier to
change when worn. JWE (17817) |
| In the
Dec2002/Jan2003 issue of the Machinist's Workshop there is an
article by John W. Foster on Improving the Performance of the 9" and
10" South Bend Lathes. In it he goes through the procedure of
changing over to a V belt drive. He made his own pulleys but as has
already been suggested you can look for one to come up for sale.
Foster also goes over an alternative belt in place of the leather
one. He covers a few other neat things but the conversion is the
main thrust of the article. I would first degrease your belt and
make sure you have the right side against the pulley. You may find
that is your only problem. As I have never degreased a belt I do not
know what is used. I am sure that someone will chime in with the
solution (pun intended) or, you can contact an industrial belt
supplier. They will tell you what is needed and how to go about it.
Fred (17818) |
| The belt
isn't in great shape to be sure. I have put the suede (rough) side
in towards the pulleys. That seemed to match the crown that the belt
had developed over time. But the rough side just isn't very rough
anymore. It almost looks like the tanned side. Maybe it is just time
to bite the bullet and get a new one. The pulley's have a nice
coating of surface rust which should help the grip considerably. I
haven't checked but I'm pretty sure one of my local guys can fix me
up with a rubber/leather combo belt. If possible I'd rather do that
locally than go the McMaster-Carr route. (17819) |
| Craig, spray
some belt dressing on your flat belt. A little slip once in a while
beats tearing something up. Duane (17820) |
| I am using a
v belt drive on my flat belt lathe 9" sb it is a problem to change
the belt. I get good traction because I use a strong spring in the
engage bar with the result that if I did have a hard grab it would
allow some slip to prevent tear out. (17825) |
| Craig, The flat belt is fine if it is in good shape. The belt
must be installed correctly or it will slip like crazy. Leather has
a skin side (smooth) and a flesh side (appears rough or hairy). The
smooth side MUST be against the pulleys. I suspect your belt is too
old and oil soaked to work right. Buy a new belt, mount it smooth
side to pulley and you will be amazed how well it works. Mike
(17833) |
| If you are having
trouble find a flat belt for your South Bend, try contacting
International Belt and Rubber Supply, Inc. 3685 Duwamish Avenue
South Seattle, Washington 98134 USA (206) 622-6034 voice (206)
622-3650 fax They carry rubber/nylon composite flat belts and also
leather/nylon flat belts. They may be able to order all-leather
belts too. I just had them make me a one-inch by four-foot
leather/nylon belt for my 9-inch workshop model C. The belt works
beautifully. It cost $21.70 plus $4.25 freight to get it from their
supplier plus tax. Then they trimmed it to my exact desired length.
You should run your turnbuckle all the way in, then put a fabric
tape measure around the cone pulley, then add another half inch or
so. The metal clip used to join the belt adds another 3/8-inch as I
recall (don't quote me on that) -- they will trim the belt to
compensate so be sure to measure carefully. The leather/nylon belt
is a sandwich of two layers of chrome-tanned leather with an inside
"filling" of a nylon belt. This belt doesn't stretch much at all.
They told me not to oil it. Both inside and outside leather surfaces
are suede-like, unlike the traditional oak- tanned belting leather. dave
(17838) |
| SB9,
Serpentine Belt: Groves In/Out |
| I am in the
process of installing a serpentine belt on my 9. At present I'm
waiting for new oilers as the old ones looked at lease 25 years old.
My question is, how do you run these belts, with the groves against
the pulleys or the smooth side? Which is best? Paul A.
(18084) |
| Unless your
pulleys have grooves, you will have to run the flat side to the
pulley. (18085) |
| Yes, I have
the standard flat pulleys. But why do you say "have to" use the flat
side? It looks like the grooved side would also run perfectly well. I
may experiment when I get the oilers and reassemble it. Paul
A.(18100) |
| Look at the belt.
The purpose of the groove is to increase the surface contact in a
grooved pulley by about 100%. Put another way it is like having a 2"
belt surface contact wise that is only 1" wide. On a flat pulley you
have only the tops of the grooves in contact with the pulley.
Roughly 50%. this would = a 1/2" belt wide. (18105) |
| I have not tried it, but I am
familiar with those belts. The ribbed
side will provide sufficient power transmission for our purposes. The
belts are built to flex in that direction, and will probably be
happier doing so. Probably last for ever either way you do it. RC
(18106) |
| I have a
serpentine on my 9 with the smooth side against the pulleys, and I
love it. Paul (18107) |
| I just
finished putting a serpentine belt on my 9" model C. the Grooved
side slipped quite easily compared to the flat side. So flat side
against the pulleys is the way I go. Lamond (18108) |
| Lamond What size belt did you use? Belt# ?, I think I may
give this a try. Larry
(18111) |
| Larry , The
automotive serpentine belt on my lathe is a Gates Micro-V the number
on the sleeve is K060465. I just measured the Inside length of the
leather belt , told the counter man I wanted a 3/4 inch wide 46 long
belt. (18114) |
| This
sounds bad. I just took a rough measurement and went to the local
auto parts dealer and said that I needed a serpentine belt about
this length. They acted like it happened all the time. Then I cut it
and used alligator clips so I could put it on my lathe. I am sorry I
don't even know what kind of vehicle it fits. (I hope it wasn't a Yugo! ) Lamond (18121) |
| I have a
Heavy Ten that cannot use a complete belt. I replaced my car
serpentine belt, cut it to length and laced it in place with some
.015" stainless steel wire. Ran very nice with the groves down
against the pulley. Since the wire was in the bottom of the groves
no noise was noticed. I expect alligator clips would make a lot of
noise. Walt (18130) |
| Yes, does sound
bad The neat thing about the serpentine belt is that it runs so
smooth without the click or bump of the joint. Down side is that to
install properly requires removing the spindle and shaft of the rear
pulley. These belts are very strong and Durable. On an automobile
they drive the generator , water pump , fan etc. all with one belt.
(18132) |
I've run a
3/4" on my 9C for over ten years. Went to the trouble to remove
spindle to install it. It never stretched or broke. I found it ran
best grooves out. If a little oil gets on it the extra surface area
of the flat side will prevent slipping or having to put on too much
tension - not good for spindle bearings. I just went to the auto
parts store and said "gimme one this long". Ed
(18143) |
| I've had my
10L around 25 years. I use it for hobby stuff and it seems I always
have belt problems. I decided to get a automotive v-ribbed belt
today. I found that a 975k7 belt is 97.5 inches with 7 ribs. That's
very close but slightly under 1" wide. A 5 rib should be about 3/4".
Since I had to cut it for my bent pipe under drive cabinet the extra
was not a problem. Those six handy drawers sure nice. I used .035
welding wire and threaded it through the holes I drilled in the 6
vallies between the ribs. I put the ribbed side down as the surface
has much more friction. I would not have believed it though. Since
the wire lacing is in the grooves it's very quiet. At first I
thought about beveling the ends for overlap and gluing them. That
does not work. With the extra length I practiced "sewing" the ends
three times before the real thing. The book says 58.5" for my lathe
so I measured the belt THREE times and cut it. I wish it were 59" but
it works. One other thing when engaging the tension it immediately
tightens, no stretching here! Other then needing 1/2" more length it
worked out very well. And it was under twenty dollars (just). Joe
(18170) |
| Larry,
I measured my leather
belt first and it was 1" wide by 48" long. I just went to the auto
parts counter with those numbers and asked if they could find one by
dimensions instead of a make
and model. He came up with a Kelly Springfield part number 480K6. I
believe the 480 refers to the length in tenths of an inch and
the 6 refers to six grooves. It is just a little under 1" wide. I
have it on the lathe and it works perfectly. It needs a little more
tension than the leather belt because it is not as flexible. It must
maintain contact with the crowned pulley over it's entire width for
the self centering action to work. I am presently running it with
the flat side against the pulleys. Paul A.
(18324) |
| I thought the
entire idea of using a serpentine belt was to have one the was not
cut and spliced. I took the spindle, back gear and motor
countershaft apart to install mine. An additions blessing of this
process was the discovery that my oilers were is very poor shape and
needed replacement. The felts were worn or pushed back till they
were even with the ends of the springs and the springs were riding
on the spindle. One had a half turn piece that was worn off it and
was also riding on the spindle. I would recommend that the spindles
be disassembled and inspected every 20,000 miles or so. Paul A.
(18325) |
| Groves
In/Out [snip] [snip] Paul. Heavy 10's with a under drive motor, cabinet
or pedistool, require a split belt. I also put the groves toward the
pulleys and it works very well. Joe R SB 10L "heavy" (18330) |
| Belt lacing
diagram? |
| Can someone post or
email me the belt lacing diagram? Cant find mine. My sb is a 40s era
9" (18403) |
| Look in the
files section-
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/files/Techinfo/Belts/
(18405) |
| Is yours
a under drive or is the motor in the rear? If it's in the rear, why
not measure and get a automotive flat belt? You'll need to remove
the spindle but while your there you can check the felts. If it's a
under drive you can still use one but will have to cut it. Measure,
get one, cut it them drill holes in the valleys and lace it with
.035 welding wire. Run it with the groves down, it will not slip.
I've done the latter. I've messed with my last leather belt. These
don't stretch. If you have to stitch it up, I suggest you get one
extra long so you can have a trial run or two. After two I was
satisfied that I could make it look right. Just put the lever in the
tension position, the adjustment as short as possible then measure.
The width is measured by the number of groves. Seven is just about a
inch and what's I've got to my heavy ten. Joe R (18406) |
| It is also in
HTRAL. On the pulley side the lacing should NOT cross over itself or
it will cut itself apart, crossover on the outside. JP (18423) |
| 10K belt
replacement? |
| I need to put on a
belt and I have everything loose and off from what I can see on the
drawing. I assume the shaft slides toward the tailstock? But I don't
want to break anything.
(19173) |
| I took the shaft right out and right back in no sweat. I used 2
nails to hold down the wick spring 1 on each spring and 1 bent for a
plunger to push it down just stick them in the oil hole's.
Bob
(19183) |
| That's how
mine on a 13" came out but not a lot of room getting it out from
from under the belt, best to have help when lifting the spindle its
not light. (19185) |
| That's how it
came off on my 10K. I put a block of wood at the left hand end of
the spindle and tapped it with a hammer. You'll want to put
something up front on the bed just in case the spindle comes *all*
the way out, if you know what I mean! Ed(19186) |
| Put a chuck
in the tailstock and grab a 1/2 inch or so bar that you stick in
the headstock spindle hole. If the spindle comes out too fast, it
will ride the bar. Useful trick for all sorts of things, like
putting the spindle back. Frank
(19189) |
| Need Belt info
|
| Just picked up a
"new " SB Model A and I am looking for a new belt. The belt I do
have is a flat leather belt that looks ok but has broken on one end
by the metal crimp. One side is fine but I was wondering is it
possible to get the other side crimped? Do they even sell them? Or
can I even get a new belt? (20253) |
| My belt finally
fail awhile back and I went to an Auto store and bought a 1 1/8 inch
belt the length I needed and then cut off one of the grooved
sections. The reason for using 1 1/8 inch was many more sizes
available and I could find the length I needed. No 1 inch was long
enough at the time ( Don't know about now ). I then ran the belt on
the back side and it worked great. The biggest fun was dismantling
the headstock and horizontal drive unit to install the belt. Walt
(20259) |
| My Heavy Ten runs
with one of the conveyer belt strap like material about 1/8" thick
and an alligator clip to hold it together (easy to install). It has
been using that type for many years even before I owned the lathe. I
believe McMaster Carr sells a replacement. It has rubberized
surfaces with a thread type of core (like a car tire) and just
doesn't seem to slip much at all under any load I have applied so
far. It clicks a bit when running but you soon forget it when
working and did I say it's easy to install g about $40 US last year
from a fellow that makes them up here in Canada. Personally if I was
to make up my own I would head for McMaster's. They also sell the
clips if I'm not mistaken. Maybe you can salvage your leather belt.
Tom (20260) |
| I once made a belt
for an Atlas lathe at work, I used a small hinge with a removable
pin, just pop rivet the hinge on an smash them flat on the back
side. The alligator belt lacing are easy to install also. They just
hammer on. I have a whole big piece of conveyer belt 1/8" thick if
anybody wants a strip email me offline. Bob (20261) |
| Belting and the
clips for joining the belt are readily available from McMaster Carr.
Both leather and composition belts are listed. The prices are
reasonable. Jim B (20263) |
| I did a search
through posts but did not see anything. Thanks (20264) |
| I have found that
most farm equipment dealers sell and lace flat belts. Ray (20265) |
| Tom that's just
what I did. The ALLIGATOR clip seems perfect. Might need a new belt
but I think it will last another 5-10 years as is. The price of
fresh leather belt here in NY is running around $7.00 a foot. Its
nice to know they still sell it.
(20266) |
| I think I'm going
to buy a belt blank from Tandy Leather and skive/glue it the next
time I need a belt. The leather blank (.75" x 72") goes for $11.99
plus $7.50 shipping. Dave (20267) |
| I put an automobile
serpentine belt on mine. Way better then a leather belt. Just go to
an auto parts store and ask for a 7/8 wide X whatever length you
need. Less then 20. bucks. Larry (20269) |
| I just
purchased new leather belting from McMaster-Carr. They sell it by
the foot and they also have the alligator clips to put the belt
together. The clips come in a box of about 1dozen and are about a
foot long. You just cut off what you need and then hammer the clips
on both sides of the belt. There is a pin that connects the belt and
that comes with the kit. (20272) |
| Here is another
source for belts. I don't know how much they would charge to ship a
belt but walking in got me a new leather belt for under $20. No
connection other than a satisfied customer. Hudson Belting 85 E.
Worcester St Worcester MA (20273) |
| Belt materials
|
| I had to cut the
laminate belt (leather rubber with stiff nylon core) on my 10K to
move it in sections. I can get a new belt made (for about $70 cdn),
I can get gator lacing put on my existing belt for about $25 cdn
(tried it myself, but the core is very stiff and just bends the
prongs when I try it). If I can find a suitable short segment of
material I may be able to splice it back together (since the belt is
cut I can't just overlap the ends). The other possibility is using
link belt - I can get 1/2" link belt for about $7/ft (cdn). This
would be about the same price as the lacing option, but quicker.
Anyone used link belt for a 10K? Ed. (21677) |
| Tony Griffiths at
www.lathes.co.uk has synthetic
belting and alligator joiners for sale. I think they are possibly
cheaper than that, even with postage from UK. Len (21678) |
| Harbor Freight
sells link belt for about $19 (U.S.) for a 5 foot length. It seems
like that would be a simple and relatively cheap experiment. Mario
(21679) |
| I have the same
belt, leather on nylon. After attempting to install the alligator
clips for the 6th or 7th time I finally realized that I had to
prepunch pilot holes into the nylon core for the prongs with a
sharpened awl. It assembled real easy after that. The gator clips
are apparently designed for plain leather belting. Fortunately I
anticipated a learning curve so I ordered extra belting. JP (21680) |
| A while back there
was a discussion on using automotive serpentine belts available at
any auto parts store. In the number on the belt is it's length in
inches to the half. There's also a number like 5 or 7, that's the
number of groves. Seven groove belts are about 1" wide. I bought one
way big and experimented lacing it up using .035 MIG welding wire. I
finally drilled a row of holes in the vallies of the ends about
5/16" from the edge. Then after putting it on my 10L under drive I
laced the wire using small pliers. I threaded the ends back under on
the flat side of the belt. Also I and others have determined the
grooved surface has a better friction surface. If you examine both
sides you'll see it. I cut mine about 3/4" short and the first time
I moved the tension handle it slightly stretched the holes. I
thought it would not last long was was very surprised to find out
how strong these are. My 10L was never able to take such big bites
with leather or composition belts. Also the oil from my must be
plugged return holes have not reduced the grabbing. Also some like
the click click of the leather belts but that's gone. Joe R(21683) |
| Has anyone tried
these? would there be a foreseeable problem with something like
this, other than a reduction of traction with 1/2" rather than 3/4"
width? any slipping problems with a narrower belt? You are right -
it is a relatively inexpensive gamble. Ed (21685) |
| In fact, if it
doesn't work, you can always use it for vee belt, as it is
intended!?!? By the way, I wanted to see if they still had it
listed.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=43771
They do. Mario (21688) |
| Ed did you try to
perforate the belt core with a punch or something? I bet that would
work. Maybe even a sharp nail would work. Myself I got kind of
interested in the serpentine car engine belt idea. I had a similar
idea way back before I got my new belt done. I think I would go that
route if I had to do it all over again. I even have some stainless
wire to do it with. I can send some of that to you if you want. No
charge g and how it goes. iend Tom Munroe(21690) |
| There's a pic in
the files section of this group--hoggin'.gif--of my 9/10K
Frankenlathe with 1/4HP motor taking a cut on some 6061-T6 about
1.5" OD. This is towards the heavy end of the range of typical cuts
for my lathe...I've found that tool sharpness and rake angle and
rigidity of toolpost and compound gibs and cross-slide gibs, are
everything. If that tool can move around it will dig in and stall
the lathe. Lurch (21691) |
| Has anybody tried
one of these? They are polyester with a nitril rubber or santoprene
coating. Ed (21692) |
| When I got my 9"
(quite recently) I found the bang as the 'gator link ran over the
pulleys very annoying. Maybe it was done badly and they're not
supposed to do this? Since the belt had stretched a bit anyhow I cut
the ends (with the clips) off and joined the ends by lacing with
string. A bit old fashioned maybe but it worked really well. I think
there are lacing instructions somewhere in the files section. If not
I can send you a scan. Nick (21695) |
| I have one and it
slips quite a bit sooner than the leather belts. Might be a matter
of belt dressing. Not sure! Henry (21725) |
| Where to get
belt lacing clips? |
| I am wanting to put
a belt on my 9"SBL, I have the belting material and a Clipper belt
lacer but have been unable to procure any of the metal lacing tabs,
can someone point me in the right direction as to supplier of these? BK (21784) |
| Clipper is now
Flexco http://www.flexco.com
Here's the wire hooks.
http://www.flexco.com/industry/products/detail.cfm?p_id=10 Lloyd (21790) |
| Belts and clips.
Baltimore Belts, Baltimore Md. (21795) |
| 9" Vee belt
history/advice? |
| When
did SB change from flat belt to vee or was it just an option? My
1943 Model A has vee belt driven headstock with a single vee pulley
on the obviously replaced motor and a single step flat pulley on the
horizontal drive unit. I can see that I can increase the number of
speeds by replacing the motor and horizontal drive pulleys with
doubles. Does this seem like a desirable thing to do? Common sense
tells me it is but I will await the input of the experts. Marshall
(24905) |
| It is my
understanding from reading some old South Bend product literature
that the v-belt spindle drive was an option which allowed four
spindle speed options instead of just three in the same physical
space. My 1946 9B has a flat belt. As for the motor to countershaft
drive, mine has a v-belt with two v pulley on the motor to a two
step flat pulley on the countershaft and, yes I find it quite
desirable. Gives lots more speed ranges. Neal (24923) |
| Serpentine
Belts |
In regards to the
term serpentine belt the name only applies to automotive
applications. In the industrial field they are called Poly V drive
belts. These types of belts have been around much longer than their
use on automobiles. These belts were used on a lot of small air
compressors starting in the early sixties. I am not just sure when
they were first available but I have seen them in industrial
applications from the time I started my working carrier in 1960.
McMaster Carr handles Goodyear brand Poly V drive belts. These belts
come in several widths and groove numbers. The ones I use are the
.940 wide and have 9 grooves or 10 ribs. These belts also come in 6
and 8 groove sizes. McMaster Carr lists these as Ribbed Poly
V-Belts. The size I use mostly on 9 inch SB bench model rear
adjustable countershaft lathes is the 52 inch length but they come
in at least two inch increments so you can get shorter or longer
ones if you wish. There price is right at $20 for the 52 inch size.
The catalog I have here at home is way out of date so I cant give
you part numbers for the different sizes but you can go on line and
search under Ribbed Poly V-Belts and they will pop right up. One
other bit of information is I believe that 65 inches is the longest
one Mc Masters list and also the longer you use these belts the
better they grip. It seams over time the point of the V mashes down
and after a wile you have near 80% contact on you pulley. Its kind
of funny as you start using your lathe with these belts they will
leave a little polished ring on you cone pulleys. After use you will
see the ring get wider and wider and if you look at your belt you
see that the contact area has increased dramatically. These things
really grip and I love how smooth and quiet they run though I do
miss the click click of the connector link on the old leather belt.
You will find as I have the squeal you hear when you are pushing
your lathe to hard is really nice and one other thing you do not
have to run these near as tight as you do leather or composite belts
so your spindle and countershaft bearings like them also."-))) Hope
this helps clear up some confusion here. Sorry I had not explained
in more detail. Turk (35174) |
| I am using a
serpentine belt too. I believe it is 56 1/4. I got it at Napa auto
parts for $12.oo I have a pedestal drive mounted behind my lathe so
I needed a belt between 56 and 58". It has 6 grooves and is 13/16"
wide which is the same width as the one I replaced. I just called
and asked what sizes they had in stock and what the prices were on
each. They had two sizes on hand and one was $25 and the other was
$12 so I took the cheaper one of course. It grips alot better than
the leather one I replaced which was glazed and slipped easily.
Jerry (35175) |
