| Chuck adapter for 9" SB Lathe
(Feb 3, 2001) |
New BTC 6" chuck (May
12, 2003) |
| Bison Chuck Question...
(Mar 27, 2001) |
Enco Chucks (May 24,
2003) |
| Craftsman Chuck (Jul 14,
2001) |
Change out chuck (Jun
12, 2003) |
| Sizing chucks (Oct 3,
2001) |
Grizzly Chuck out of round
(Jul 28, 2003) |
| Chuck sizes/weights (Jan
16, 2002) |
Selection of a chuck
(Jul 29, 2003) |
| Plain Back Chucks (Jan
26, 2002) |
Adjusting Adjust-Tru Chuck (Aug 8, 2003) |
| Bounce in chuck (Feb 5,
2002) |
Canadian Chuck Supplier (Sep 18, 2003) |
| Fitting a Chuck (Feb 7,
2002) |
D1-4" Chuck shopping (Sep 19, 2003) |
| Chuck gone bad (Mar 12,
2002) |
Chuck Question (Nov 24, 2003) |
| Chucks (Mar 24, 2002) |
Mounting chuck on backplate (Dec 26, 2003) |
| 9
in. SB Chuck (Jul 12, 2002) |
Chucks shoulders too long (Feb 19, 2004) |
|
Using smaller spindle size chuck (Jul 24, 2002) |
Skinner 6" chuck jaw needed (Feb 29, 2004) |
|
Chucks (Jul 24, 2002) |
Chuck info (Apr 16, 2004) |
|
Bison Tail Stock Chuck (Jul 27, 2002) |
Cushman chuck jaws (Apr 19, 2004) |
| Enco Ball Bearing Chuck
(Aug 5, 2002) |
Lathe chuck (cam lock) (May 8, 2004) |
| Chuck Question (Sep 19,
2002) |
Heavy 10 new vs used chuck (Aug 20, 2004) |
| Buck Chuck? (Nov 11,
2002) |
Chuck mounting problem (Sep 19, 2004) |
| Working out stiff chuck
(Nov 12, 2002) |
Honing Chuck Jaws (Sep 22, 2004) |
|
Missing chuck jaws (Dec 26, 2002) |
Should I bush this Chuck?
(Nov 21, 2004) |
|
Needed: Buying Guide for Chucks (Jan 3, 2003) |
Set tru chuck questions
(Nov 26, 2004) |
| Largest chuck on a 10L?
(Jan 17, 2003) |
Reversible jaws, anyone?
(Nov 26, 2004) |
| SB Lathe 9" Chuck 1-7/8 x 8
Skinner (Mar 5, 2003) |
Chuck thread problem
(Dec 8, 2004) |
| 6-jaw chuck question
(Mar 14, 2003) |
Import chuck no good?
(Dec 19, 2004) |
| 4 jaw chuck (May 1,
2003) |
Buck Chuck (Jan 23,
2005) |
| Kalamazoo Chuck (May 5,
2003) |
4 jaw Chuck binding problem (Aug 2,
2006) |
| |
| Chuck adapter for 9" SB Lathe |
| Does anyone have the skill to make a 1.5 by 8tpi
adapter for my 9" SB that would have a 5/8" spindle coming off the
end (AKA Shopsmith spindle) so I can use My Supernova Woodturning
chuck on my SB also. I have a pair of Shopsmith Model 10 ER's (late
1940's) that I use as a lathe and drill press. Would be nice to be
able to mount my chuck on the SB for making precision wooden boxes
as I was talking about earlier. The chucks I got with my lathe-- a
5" Cushman 3 jaw and a Skinner 6" independent 4 jaw,
aren't dovetail
chucks, so it would be better for woodturning. Or does anyone know
someone that can do this? David (162) |
| If you only need a simple
5/8" shaft to mount your chucks to (I don't know what a Shopsmith
uses), you could always chuck a piece of 5/8" in your four jaw
chuck; adjust it until it indicates true; and mount your chucks to
that. Alternatively, you could make a Morse #3 adaptor that has a
5/8" stub shaft hanging off it that will fit the inside of your
spindle. This would be easier to make and inherently more accurate
when repeatedly mounted and dismounted. Maybe you could modify a
Jacob's drill chuck arbor to do the job? I don't know if this idea
is suitable but it is food for thought.
Webb (165) |
| Bison Chuck Question... |
| I recently
purchased a SBL Heavy 10 that has a L-00 spindle. The chucks that
came with the lathe are plain backs with adapter plates. This setup
seems to take up an extra inch or two of bed space, so I've been
thing about getting a direct fit 3-jaw Bison chuck. I'm completely
unfamiliar with Bison chucks, so I was hoping someone could share
their experiences with these chucks? Further, anybody got a guess as
to how much space I'd save by using a direct fit 6" Bison 3-jaw over
my current 6" Cushman + Adapter 3-jaw? Mel (399) |
| Dimension from the "Gage Line" to the
Chuck Face of the Bison 6" 3-Jaw Chuck is 4.06" Bison Chucks are,
IMHO, a very good compromise between quality and cost. They are what
we sell for the Logan Lathes. Scott Logan (400) |
| Craftsman Chuck
|
| I finally got the
chuck off the lathe (it took a 3-foot length of pipe to make it let
go, but it's behaving quite well now), and have started cleaning
that up. The jaws are a bit of a mystery. It's a Craftsman chuck,
#11121390, and I don't have a key to it. It appears to be a hex-key,
but none of my standards fit. At a guess, I'd say it's a 7mm (but I
don't think an American outfit like Craftsman would go metric) or
maybe a 5/32 (interpolating between the 1/4 too small, and the 5/16
too big). I've looked around, and can't find a 5/32 Allen wrench
locally. Before I go off and search for a key that may or may not be
spec, can anybody confirm my guess of 5/32, or maybe point to a
supplier? Gordon (1086) |
| I believe what
you need would be a 9/32 v 5/32. Might try carefully grinding the
end hex of a 5/16 Allen wrench; hard to get even a fair fit (I've
never been successful at a truly good fit) but might work until you
find what you need. Usually takes me several tries. I have a few
email addys for some surplus suppliers that have some unusual stuff
(got them from ebay questions to sellers) I can give you if you d
like to contact me off list. Lew (1087) |
| I
can't do simple math. 9/32 - right. Ideally, I'd like a T-grip with
a good fit, so I think I should try to avoid custom grinds (at least
right now). The addresses would be appreciated. Who'd'a'thunk
McMaster-Carr would fall through? G (1088) |
| Just about any
local industrial supplier should have 9/32" Allen wrenches. If you
can't find any locally, and can use the standard shape, I can send
you a couple for the cost of the shipping. Jeff. (1089) |
| I may have a spare
chuck key. If you can measure the distance across the flats with a
set of vernier, I can check. Jim (1090) |
| I just had to have
a key made for my Craftsman chuck, the dimension you are looking for
is 19/64, a friend of mine at work used a mill to make a 5/16 fit.
He talked to some of the "OLD" toolmakers and they said it was a
safety thing, only the person with the key could work the chuck.
M.L. Roak (1107) |
| Across 19/64ths
(297 thousandths +/- my myopic measurements) would appear to be the
measurement in question. Matt suggested a custom-grind, any other
options available? G (1113) |
| Sizing chucks
|
| Is there any
problem using an 8 inch chuck on a 9 inch swing lathe? Tim
(1706) |
| Probably way too
much mass, and too limited because the jaws might hang out a bit and
hit the ways. Stay with a 6" max diameter chuck for a 9" lathe. You
can use a 9" face plate, though. Paul R. (1708) |
| Yes it is all I can
do to use the full capacity of my 6" chuck. When the jaws are just
engaged in the open position they almost hit the ways. JWE (1709) |
| Chuck
sizes/weights |
| Having just
acquired a SB 9 plain bearing lathe I am looking at replacing the 3
jaw chuck. I'd really like to have a Bison 6-jaw set-tru chuck. I'm
aware that 6" may be pushing the max. dia. size, but I am more
concerned about the weight and to some extent the overhang. I did a
search of the archives, but didn't find anything (Yahoo's search
function is notoriously poor so it could be there but not found).
I'd like to hear what you more experienced folks have to say about
it and if SB has specs on this. Rick K. (2760) |
| Should have
included that the 4-jaw that came with the lathe is 20#, while the
Bison 6-jaw set-tru is 25#, plus a couple/three more for the adaptor
plate. RK (2761) |
| One thing to
remember when putting big chucks on smaller lathes. If you run them
at high speed the larger chucks may induce a vibration due to the
set tru setup that pushes a chucks mass off-center to compensate for
jaw-grip runout. I just mounted a brand new Buck-Forkhardt set tru 3
jaw. It will vibrate when it is run at the fastest speed sometimes.
I am running a heavy 10 which is more massive than a 9 inch. Not
saying you can't put a big chuck on, just that it may vibrate
sometimes at fast speed. My 5" 3 jaw does not vibrate at high speed.
If you are interested I can weigh my 3 jaw. It is definitely pushing
the limit for weight for my machine. It is a rigid and beefy chuck.
A 6 jaw will likely be a tad heavier. (2783) |
| Yes, I've noticed
that off-balance vibration with the Bison 4" 3-jaw chuck that I made
a set-tru type backplate for, for my 7x12 lathe. Are you saying you
mounted a 5" 3-jaw on your Heavy 10 and it's pushing its weight
limit, or is the new Buck a different chuck? I have a 5" 3-jaw that
came with the SB9 and that is well within its capacity (don't know
its weight), the 6" 4-jaw seems so also even tho it is 20 lbs. The
vibration will happen anytime the chuck is offset much, that's a
given. I am more concerned about whether the weight will harm the
lathe, as in accelerating spindle bearing wear. The 6-jaw would
likely be 27/28 lbs. Rick K. (2784) |
| Plain Back
Chucks |
| When you purchase a
plain back chuck and a threaded adapter, what machining is left to
do on the back of the chuck and/or the adapter? Is there already a
registration recess on the back of a plain back chuck? For the
adapter, it seems like mounting bolt holes would need to be located
and drilled and a matching registration step machined. Who's gone
this route before? Paul R.
(2954) |
| Here's a link
I found to the process:
http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/chuckmnt/chuckmnt.html
Paul R. (2955) |
| I did this
for my Bison 6" 4-jaw. I can send or post some photos. You do need
to machine a registration shoulder to match the chuck and drill/tap
the holes. Not all that difficult, really. Nice thing about
machining a backplate/registration shoulder is you know its
perfectly concentric for your spindle. Curiously tho, that backplate
was turned on/for my Atlas 10" and its dead on on it, but runs out
2-3 thou on the SB 9". Clearly, it doesn't register the same on the
spindle. Doesn't matter much for an independent jaw chuck, but might
for a scroll chuck. Rick K. (2956) |
| There is generally a registration recess
in the chuck. I have purchased raw adaptor castings and threaded
them myself. (A good exercise in internal thread cutting.) But the
process is as follows for any adaptor. Thread it onto the spindle
making sure the adaptor fits the spindle register well. Then take a
light facing cut across the face of the adaptor to make sure it is
at right angles to the spindle. Then turn the OD to a light push fit
into the register of the chuck. Then you can mark out and drill the
retaining screws, those don't need to be a precision fit as the
registers are the locating parts. Now you have a better chuck
mounting than if you purchased a threaded body chuck as you trued
everything up on the lathe it is to be used on. John(2957) |
| Most of this web
site material sounds OK, but one thing I disagree with is the not
having to get the register dia to a close fit. I personally get it
to about half a thousandth. My procedure on the many chuck backs I
have made for my SB 9 and SB 13 are. First make a duplicate of your
spindle taking pains to get the register dia dead on. Rather than
buying commercial backs I have had good luck in pipe flanges from the
junk yard ( pardon me recycle yard, they seem to get higher prices
by calling them that). Usually a 150 lb or 300 lb with a reduced
thread. I have also picked up at flea markets or yard sales spares
of iron shapes that will work. The flanges can be CI, ductile or
steel. Give the CI the ring test to make sure they are not cracked.
Now chuck up your blank, thread to close fit on threads using your
clone spindle to creep up on the fit. Bore the register to half a
tho or closer. The clone should fit snugly. Machine the step to
match the chuck back to very close fit. Drill and or tap to mate the
back to the chuck. I also had a new China chuck that did not run
true and chucked it up on a 2" turned stub. Mounted the chuck and
skin cut the register faces to mount true. Walt (2959) |
| You need
to face the adapter on your particular machine. Also cut the
registration step to match the back of the chuck. The registration
recess on my Bison chuck was not concentric with the OD, and left me
with ~0.008" runout. I reduced the OD of the registration step on
the mounting plate and enlarge the screw holes 1/64". Once the chuck
was mounted with the screws snug (not tight), I chucked a ground rod
and tapped the chuck with a mallet until the runout went to zero,
then tightened the screws. Ken (2961) |
| Well I purchased
for my 10" SB lathe a MSC "Made in China" 3 jaw chuck, on sale of
course, net cost to me with shipping less than $100. It was already
cut in the back for a plate, but my 50 year+ backplate that came on
my old SB 3 jaw was much larger in the relief or index register. So
I just enlarged the existing 3 holes in my SB back plate and
re-drilled deeper and tapped the existing chuck holes for 5/16 Allen
bolts. This left me enough play so when I mounted the chuck on the
lathe I could move the chuck on the backplate slightly to get the
run out correct. I ended up with about .0015 run out. I then removed
the whole assy and proceeded to drill three other 5/16 holes in the
plate and chuck, with now a total of 6 5/16" by 2" or 2 1/2"
Allen
bolts. Very happy with the result and cost. B.G. (2962) |
| Here's the
final question on plain back chucks: Looking in the Enco
catalog, they only show back plates made
by Bison, and each says "fits Bison Chucks only". This is listed for
not only the set-tru and the self-centering back plates, but the
rough back plates. Is this just B.S.? Do the machined Bison back
plates already have the mating step machined? I can't imagine that
they would, but then why do they say "fits Bison only" for the rough
casting as well? Should I just stick with the rough cast back plates
and do everything custom to get the best spindle nose fit, or are
the threaded back plates useable on any plain back chuck? BTW, while
fitting the 6" face/drive plate that Scott Logan so generously sent
me, I discovered that although the book specification for the
diameter of the land between the shoulder and spindle thread is
1.509", the three spindles I measured all taper from 1.509" where
the thread dies to 1.511" in the middle of the land. The Logan face
plate was 1.510" at the mouth and would not seat against the
shoulder so I hi-spotted and scraped a little and got a super fit
between the face plate and the spindle nose. Nice face plate, by the
way. Very substantial casting and nicely finished even though this
one is a factory second. Paul R. (2963) |
| Bounce in chuck
|
| How do I
get a bounce out of lathe chuck S.B. 9in lathe three jaw 5in chuck
it has a bounce of .006 that's on 3/4stock about 1in from chuck can
this be corrected if so how? Ken (3093) |
| The first
question would be, what do you mean by bounce? If you mean that you
can grab the bar and move it, then something is loose. A 9" south
bend spindle itself should have around .001" of play to operate
properly. Hopefully the chuck is holding tight. If that were the
situation you would need to peel a layer or two off of the brass
bearing shims to tighten them up. On the other hand, if you mean
that the work is held tight, but not centered, this is usually
called runout and is to be expected in a 3-jaw chuck. You can grind
the tips of the jaws slightly until they hold any one size perfectly
centered, but put in a different sized piece of stock and it will be
slightly off center. A higher quality chuck may do a little better,
but if you need the work centered use a collet or a
4-jaw-independent chuck. Often you can just plan your work so as to
do everything in one chucking - then it doesn't really matter if the
finished part is not quite concentric with the starting material.
Chris (3094) |
| Fitting a Chuck |
| I read the article
about fitting a chuck with interest. Makes sense, we fit lots of
other things, why not our lathe chucks... I've sure blown off a few
for being out of tolerance, perhaps "they" weren't and it was my
spindle. What about more than one chuck? The procedure described
sounds like it would work quite well if that was the only chuck that
would be used on that spindle. I have at least two chucks for each
lathe (a 3- 4-jaw), sometime mores (3-jaw, came with the lathes,
kinda beat up). I only plan to use the two primary ones, so only
they might really need to be "fitted". Would one sequentially
blue/test each one, only stoning as much as gives as best a fit as
can be had with both? I'm sure there are reasons for choosing one
chuck over the other to fit more closely than the other, 3-jaw
scroll chuck rather than 4-jaw independent for example. Rick
K. (3126) |
| Not sure I'm
reading you right, but the stuck chucks article says to clean up the
spindle (very sparingly) and then fit each chuck by scraping the
chuck to fit to your now "golden" spindle. Works for as many chucks
as you care to fit. Paul R. (3129) |
| All the
lathes you have should have the spindle face perpendicular to the
axis of rotation, and be dead flat. Cleaning up this contact area
should be fine for all lathes you mount the chucks on. What will
vary lathe to lathe is the size of the register. If I bored all my 1
1/2-8 threaded chucks to fit one 9" lathe just right, they would be
sloppy loose on the other 9 incher- one is a jet, one an SB. If you
are going to get one chuck dead on, make it the 3 jaw. 4 jaw chucks
(at least independent jaw ones) get dialed in when you mount the
work, so a bit of axial offset is no big deal. Stan (3131) |
| I read it the other
way, scrape the spindle (but that doesn't make sense [hardened] now
that I think harder about it). I like your reading better. Would
make the spindle "golden" I'll take a closer look. Rick (3132) |
| There it is, the
part not carefully read: "With a small scraper, remove the blued
surface from the backing plate. Now, it makes sense.
Rick K. (3133) |
| The point of the
"Stuck Chucks..." article is that it is not really meant to "dial
in" for accuracy, but rather get the chuck mating with the
registration shoulder evenly so there is no extraneous jamming
action that will make removal difficult when you go to take off the
chuck. You are absolutely correct that a chuck "fitted" for one
lathe could be a compromise on another, and you would tend to want
to dedicate a non-adjustable (3-jaw) for best performance on a given
lathe. All your chucks should be given the "fitting" treatment. When
I make a new spindle for my dividing head, I'm going to get its nose
as close to the spec. for my 9" SBL so I can transport the
workpiece, chuck and all over to the dividing head for milling
operations with minimal loss of concentricity. If you have bad
runout on your 3-jaw w/back plate, do what Rick has done, and what I
have seen in an old HSM article, and add the "Set-Tru" feature to
your back plate. I'm going to machine the back plates for my
replacement chucks this weekend. I got a Bison threaded back plate
for the 5" Bison 3-jaw, and an un-threaded Bison back plate for the
6" Enco 4-jaw. I was unsure if the threaded ones would work on the
4-jaw since the description said "only for Bison 3-jaw". Not quite
true, as the threaded back would work okay since the face is
un-machined on both of the back plates. The threaded back, however,
is a little loose and too long so I'll be cutting it down a bit and
re-machining the shoulder anyway. All-in-all I would have been
better off buying the rough cast backs for both, but I thought I
might need one chuck to get the other one going. Instead, I'll just
bolt the back plates to my Logan 6" face plate and turn the shoulder
and threads and then finish the face of each by screwing onto the
spindle nose -- with the appropriate "fitting" session. So get out
your tube of Hi-Spot Blue and get to work, all. Paul R.
(3142) |
| I understand the
procedure to mean that you can fit your spindle to a particular
chuck by stoning off the high spots on the spindle, OR if you have
more then one chuck like I do. You can fit each chuck to your
spindle by stoning off the high spots on the chuck. I believe the
latter is the correct way to do this. Mike (3145) |
| How about a dial
indicator on the spindle, and after it's known to be flat, then
scrape the chuck as needed? (3146) |
| Yes, do not stone, file, grind or mess up your spindle.
Only exception would be if a ding or imbedded chunk of swarf is
imbedded. If the spindle register is in good shape don't fool with
it, make chucks to fit the spindle. Compared to a new spindle chucks
are cheap. John (3156) |
| Chuck gone bad
|
| I have
(had) a nice 3 jaw chuck on my 10K (a real SouthBend chuck) and I
was cutting a rather large piece of brass and flipped the drive
clutch on only to realize that the wrong drive was selected and the
tool bit grabbed and ripped the part out of the jaws. Now it does
not spin true at all (.010" TIR). Is it possible to fix this? Can it
be rebuilt? William (3625) |
| Chucks have parts
just like other machine tool items. Time to take the chuck apart
carefully looking for distortion in some part. Something got bent
and I would assume that the chuck maker ( buck ? ) has spare parts.
Now the issue is if the parts cost more than getting another chuck
in good condition. Yasmiin (3626) |
| The first thing to try is unmounting and remounting the chuck, if the register isn't a tight
fit to the spindle, the chuck may have just gotten cocked on the
spindle nose. Sometimes Lady Luck just gives us a close call to wake
us up. If that isn't it, chuck up a short test bar and check TIR at
the chuck and an inch or so out to find out if the jaws got sprung.
If the TIR is fairly constant as you move away from the jaws, there
is a fairly good chance that the chuck shifted on the backing plate.
Many chucks are mounted on backing plates that don't have a tightly
mated register. You may luck out and be able to slightly loosen the
socket head cap screws that mount the chuck to the backing plate and
tap the chuck back onto centerline. Don't think of it as a poorly
fitted chuck, think of it as an economical set true mounting :-) If
that isn't it, you'll have to tear the chuck down and see if the
scroll or the teeth on the back of one of the jaws got clobbered. A
quick check would be to chuck up a piece of stock a bit larger or
smaller than the piece that got snagged from the chuck and see if
that piece runs true. Hopefully it isn't a really bad problem like a
bent spindle or a cracked chuck body. Hope it's just a
shifted backing plate at worst! Stan (3628) |
| Chucks |
| I have a
Skinner 6" junior 4 jaw chuck for my 9" A that has a broken jaw
screw. Does anyone have a resource for a replacement or a spare they
are willing to part with? It is 11/16 dia. with an 8 tpi and 2 3/8
long with 5/16 square drive. Also, my Jacobs headstock chuck #59B
appears to have either a couple of bad spots or chips inside as it
locks up when chucking. Do these come apart for repair without
destroying them? ED (3723) |
| For your 4-jaw
chuck, why not make a replacement screw on your lathe? You will have
to grind a cutter bit to match the thread profile of one of your
existing screws. It probably will be hard to make a square
indentation to match the original, but maybe you can get by with
just cutting a slot in it for a regular flat blade screwdriver. I
would use soft steel as a material for the screw. For servicing
Jacobs chucks, check out this link:
http://www.jacobschuck.com/service.html#anchor31023
Jon (3729) |
| Jon, Thanks for the
tips and info. I thought about making a screw for this but the
original is hardened and when chucking up and centering in the four
jaw I don't know if I like the idea of switching drivers to adjust
the jaws. I may go this way depending on the cost/availability of
the part. (3732) |
| Yes, the
Jacob chucks come apart. There is a web site from Jacobs that gives
directions on how to do it. In general, the outer sleeve is a press
fit on the chuck body and needs to be pressed off. Then it falls
apart with the jaws and gear exposed. Warning though, on some or
maybe all Jacobs chucks there is a ring that is broken. When you see
that broken ring the novice will want to replace it, then can not
assemble the chuck again. The ring is hardened and broken at the
factory. Be careful to get the jaws back in the right place or the
chuck will not close concentric. If your chuck is the kind that
screws directly onto the spindle take good care of it as they are
not made anymore. John (3733) |
| As John
said take care of that Jacobs #59B, he's right they are not made
anymore and they are a fantastic chuck. I bought one from Barry
Aronson, a dealer in NY (see classified ads in HSM) a few months ago
paying $120 plus shipping and they weigh about 5 lbs. It's a jewel,
for those of you who haven't seen one, Jacob's calls it a "Lathe
Headstock Chuck." It is 3/16 to 3/4 capacity and has a 1 1/2"-8
spindle mounting thread and it is big, about 2 1/2" dia. and as I
said, about 5 lbs.. They also made a 5/8" capacity model numbered
#59A I believe. Mine is in beautiful shape but if I ever had trouble
I would be inclined to let Jacob's take care of it and pay the price.
Neil (3739) |
| Try Dave Sobel at
Sobel Machinery. Several years ago he was able to match up a jaw for
a skinner chuck for me. nice guy to deal with too. Pete (3746) |
| 9 in. SB Chuck
|
| What sizes 6 jaw
chucks can I use on the 9" SB lathe mod C? And what would I look for
in a quick change tool holder, there are a couple ending on Ebay in
a couple of hours and I want to be sure I can use them. Clint (5077) |
| AXA size, or
smaller on the tool post. Recommend no larger than 5-inch diameter
on the chuck due to weight. (5079) |
| Using smaller
spindle size chuck |
| I have a chuck that
has only a 1" spindle hole, my SB has a 1 1/2" Can I use a plate or
something to use this chuck? If so what would I try to look for.
Clint
(5323) |
| If
your have a 1" x 10 3 jaw I'll trade a 1 1/2 x 8 four jaw. I got two
four jaw chucks with my 9 inch model A. I need a three jaw for my 6
inch Atlas. Jim (5328) |
| Clint, I also
have a back plate threaded for 1 1/2 by 8. Jim (5329) |
| Jim What I
have is just a 3 1/2" 6 jaw self centering chuck, new. I was
wondering about an adapter plate. If this is not suitable to you, I
would still like to deal with you on your chuck. I have been looking
for one Clint (5330) |
| I would like
to try and deal you out of it. Clint (5331) |
| Clint, If
your chuck has a removable backplate (not an integral part of the
scroll mechanism), you should consider machining/purchasing
machining a new backplate for it. If not, I would think that a
threaded adapter would make the chuck stick out too far and result
in chatter -- go ahead and try if you've got nothing to loose. If
it's an all-in-one chuck with internal 1" thread, save it for a
smaller lathe or trade it for something you can use. A 6-jaw would
be a nice chuck to have for special circumstances, but if you have
to stick it out on an adapter, I'd say forget it. If there's enough
"meat" such that you could bore it out and re-thread it 1-1/2" - 8,
then that's a possibility. But, unless you're very good, you would
probably trash its alignment. Paul R. (5332) |
| Paul This
chuck does not have threads, it looks like it needs some kind of
adapter plate. Clint( 5335) |
| That's
good. Maybe what you have is a "plain-back" chuck that _requires_ a
backplate fit to your spindle nose. Do you know the brand/model of
the chuck? Does the catalog say it requires a backplate? If so,
that's the standard way you get a chuck for our style of lathe. The
next step would be to get a backplate pre-threaded for 1-1/2"-8 TPI
and then fit it to your chuck. That usually means putting the
backplate on the spindle and machining the front of the backplate to
fit the registration recess on the back of the chuck. the last thing
to do is drill holes in the backplate to allow it to bolt to the
plain-back chuck. Does that sound like your situation? Paul
R. (5336) |
| Clint,
Measure the threads on your chuck. I have a six inch four jaw chuck
marked Power Companion Tools 1111706. Diameter 6 in. Thickness 2 in.
with backplate and 1 3/4 in without backplate. Threaded hub of
backplate 1 31/32 x 11/16 in. 1 1/2 x 8 threads. Also reversible
jaws. I also have two backplates both threaded 1 1/2 x 8. #1 6 inch
diameter x 3/8 with 4 3/8 threaded holes on a 2 1/2 inch radius at
90 degrees from each other. #2 3 1/2 inch diameter 9/16 thick 8
holes 4 3/8 threaded and 4 3/8 plain on 90 degree intervals for each
set of four on a radius of 1 1/2 inches. Jim (5338) |
| Clint, I sent
another e-mail about my 4 jaw chuck before reading this. I will be
glad to trade if you want. I have a 1x10 back plate already I can
machine for your chuck if you want to trade. Let me know. Jim (5339) |
| Clint, Yup, a
plain-back chuck, and the seller is out near me. Anyway, get
yourself a cast iron threaded backplate and machine it up to fit the
recess on the chuck back, drill and counterbore the mounting holes
and away you go. If you need info on fitting the chuck, search the
group archives. If no luck there, ask again and we'll all put our
$0.02 in on how to do it. Paul R. (5343) |
| Chucks |
| What was the
standard size and type of chucks, both 3 jaw and 4 jaw that
originally came with the 9" lathes? I recently acquired a 9A HMD,
July 1946 vintage, that came with only a 3 jaw chuck. It is made by
the Cushman Chuck Co and has the number 3505 stamped underneath the
name plate, which BTW is stamped into the face of the check. This is
a threaded chuck 1.5x8, 5" diameter, 2.5" thick, not counting the
thread nose on the back. There is also the number 121A stamped
elsewhere on the face. This corresponds with the stamps 121A1,
121A2, 121A3, stamped on the ends of each jaw. I assume this was
done to match the jaws to the chuck during manufacturing. Fred
(5344) |
| Mine
came with a 5" 3-jaw and a real cheap 7" 4-jaw. The 4-jaw came from
the factory with the lathe and the old man I got the lathe from in
1969 said the 3-jaw came from Sears. JWE (5346) |
| James. Some
of the posts I have seen in the past would indicate that the 9" will
handle a 6" 3 jaw and the 7" 4 jaw. Does that seem appropriate? Fred (5347) |
| I have
one of the Enco 6" 4-jaws on the machine now and it is smaller than
the 6" 3-jaw. I have the 6" on the 12x36 and it is way to big and
heavy for the 9" lathe. The 7" I have weighs half what my 5" 3-jaw
does and the 3-jaw is about the same weight as the 6" 4-jaw. JWE (5348) |
| That was
a mouth full. But it sounds like the best setup would be 5" three
jaw and 6" four jaw. Sound feasible? Fred (5349) |
| A previous
note of yours, the 3-jaw jaws are labeled so you can easily put them
back in the correct slots by reference to the numbers stamped either
beside, or in, the slots. For instance, when you take out the inside
jaws to use the outside set, or vice versa. It just saves a lot of
sorting and guessing as you try to get the right jaw in the correct
slot so they all meet in the center when closed. smt
(5350) |
| Fred That is
what works. JWE (5351) |
| Thanks much.
I did know what the numbers are for. They are like that on the 3 jaw
chuck for my Atlas 6". I am just hoping that the inside of the jaw
slot is also stamped with the appropriate number since I do not see
it anywhere else. I am assuming that what I have is the original
chuck since the person I bought it from had it for over 30 years and
he bought it from the original owner. Unfortunately the last owner
loaned the 4 jaw chuck to a (supposed) friend 15 years ago and never
heard from him again. Eventually I will have to get one. Fred (5355) |
| Fred, In
looking at my 1958 South Bend Catalog I notice that the 5" 3-Jaw
Chuck recommended was Catalog # CL3005NK which weighed 14 lbs and
cost $68.00 back then. The 5" 3-Jaw Chuck that you have, Catalog #
CL3505NK is the 2nd choice and weighed 16 lbs and cost $117.00 back
then. The heaviest 3-Jaw Chuck recommended for the 9" or 10K Lathe
is Catalog # CL3506NK which was a 6", weighed 25 lbs, and cost
$124.00 back in 58. The heaviest 4 Jaw Chuck the Catalog #CL4206NK
was 6" and weighed 26 lbs. This might have been answered in the
following posts I have not yet read. Jim (5357) |
| Only a 3 jaw
chuck. It is made by the Cushman Chuck Co and has the number 3505
stamped underneath the name plate, which BTW is stamped into the
face of the check. This is a threaded chuck 1.5x8, 5" diameter, 2.5"
thick, not counting the thread nose on the back. There is also the
number 121A stamped elsewhere on the face. This corresponds with the
stamps 121A1, 121A2, 121A3, stamped on the ends of each jaw. I
assume this was done to match the jaws to the chuck during
manufacturing.
(5358) |
| Jim.
That is the most detailed information that I have gotten so far.
That would indicate that my chuck is an original. Does your catalog
say anything about additional 4 jaw chucks? I am wondering if a 26
lb. chuck is just to heavy for the 9". Fred(5366) |
| Fred, As I
posted earlier the heaviest recommended 4-Jaw Chuck, Catalog No.
CL4206NK, was 6", weighed 26 lbs, and cost 83.00 back in 1958. That
was the 2nd choice. The 1st recommended 4-Jaw Independent Lathe
Chuck was Catalog No. CL4006NK which was also 6", weighed 14 lbs,
and cost$46.00 back in 1958. These chucks, like the chucks mentioned
earlier in my prior post, were threaded to accept the 1 1/2" x 8 TPI
Spindle of the 9" and 10K Lathes. The SBL Factory made Tool
Assortments available in 11-Tools for $78 and 20-Tools for $169.00.
Both of these Tool Assortments had the CL3005NK and CL4006NK
recommended chucks which kept the price down. In the 1958 Catalog
the 9" Model A Bench Lathe with a 3 1/2 foot bed sold for $490 and
the 10K Model A Underneath Motor Drive Floor Lathe with a 3 1/2foot
bed sold for $887. These prices did not include the Electric Motors
or Tooling. Jim Larsen question. What was the standard size and type
of chucks, both 3 jaw and 4 jaw that originally came with the 9"
lathes? only a 3 jaw chuck. It is made by the Cushman Chuck Co and
has the number 3505 stamped underneath the name plate, which BTW is
stamped into the face of the check. This is a threaded chuck 1.5x8,
5" diameter, 2.5" thick, not counting the thread nose on the back.
There is also the number 121A stamped elsewhere on the face. This
corresponds with the stamps 121A1, 121A2, 121A3, stamped on the ends
of each jaw. I assume this was done to match the jaws to the chuck
during manufacturing.
(5367) |
| Jim, I will file all this information and numbers away and start
looking for the appropriate 4 Jaw. Wouldn't you like to be able to
buy with the same prices as back then? Fred
(5368) |
| This is
great information. My 10K came with the Cushman 3506, and I had
believed the heavy (but very nice quality) chuck was added by some
over-ambitions previous owner. Also has the "South Bend"
labeled/stamped Skinner 4206, but it does not seem quite as heavy as
the 3 jaw. smt (5369) |
| My old C came with
a "Craftsman" 4 jaw, and a VERY badly abused, un-named 3 jaw.
Luckily it looks as if the 4 jaw was never used, nor were most of
the change gears. Matt
(5370) |
| Bison Tail
Stock Chuck |
| Just
thought that I would mention that I recently made an impulse buy
from Enco. Their sale flier had the Bison Rotating Tail Stock Chuck
on sale for $179.00. I was quite surprised when I received it, as it
came neatly nestled in a nicely made wooded case with box joint
(also knows as finger joint) joinery. Chris (5413) |
| Chris, I see
you're well on you way. I've got a nice collection of Chinese wooden
boxes also. Dave (5414) |
| Enco Ball
Bearing Chuck |
| Has anyone in the
group purchased one of those Enco heavy duty ball bearing drill
chucks, and if so, were you pleased with it? What was the TIR?
Chris (5601) |
| Christopher- I
bought one from MSC a few years ago to use in a Versa- mill. "Golden
Goose" brand, though the picture on the box is a pelican. Mine is
1/32 to 5/8" capacity ball bearing super chuck. I don't use it often
enough to give you a precise test report. I do remember clearly when
I first set it up and used it my initial impression was "Wow! Sort
of expected there would be some run-out and there doesn't appear to
be any!" The quality and finish (again, this one is from MSC) is top
notch, and it works very smoothly. Mine seems to be a high quality
tool. Smt (5617) |
| Chuck Question
|
| My lathe didn't
come with a chuck, and I'm trying to evaluate my options. The thread
on the spindle is 3/8" x 6, and I haven't seen any threaded chucks
in that size. It did come with a plate that threads on the spindle,
7 5/8" overall diameter, with a step at 6 3/8" and a four bolt
circle at 5". Would I be correct in assuming that this is for
bolting a chuck to? Any idea where I could look for one, either a
bolt on or thread on (in the very cheap price range)?
Mark (6392) |
| I'll
assume (risky I know!) that the spindle is 2 3/8 - 6, not 3/8 - 6,
which would be really weird? If so, this is a standard spindle nose
thread, my neighbor has it on his SB15. The Bison chucks are quite
nice, the Phase II four jaw chucks are not bad for the bucks. My
Phase II 8 inch 4 jaw has a recess of about 5 inches, with a bolt
circle diameter of about 4 1/8 inch. Cost all of $50 during an Enco
sale, and is not a bad chuck. I intend to turn down the old backing
plate that is currently on a very poor condition Cushman to use this
chuck on my old SB13, although I might just make a new plate and
have a spare. The sizes for the backing plate you have sounds to be
in the range of a 10 inch four jaw, maybe a 12 incher. Typically the
backing plate diameter matches the chuck body diameter for 3 jaw
chucks, but is smaller than the chuck body for 4 jaw chucks. Check
the Enco or Travers sales fliers for Phase II chucks is you want to
go low cost, a 10 inch 4 jaw (recess 3 15/16", bolt circle 4 3/4 ")
is $89.99 from Travers this month, the 8 inch (4 15/16 recess, bolt
circle 4 9/64") is $69.99. There is a 12 inch model with a 5 1/2
inch recess and a bolt circle of 6 1/2" for $119.99, but I think the
bolt circle is too large to fit nicely on the plate you have, the
holes would be cozy to the edge. Unless you can determine the
original chuck that was on the backplate and find one, you'll have
to machine the existing backplate to match whatever chuck you end up
with. If you haven't done this before, there is a good article on
making and mating backplates on the metalwebnews site, or many of
the folks here could give you some more information. I've only
mentioned four jaw chucks, as the cheaper Chinese 3 jaw units are
only specified for 3 thou runout, and in my experience that's pretty
optimistic :-( Others may well feel differently, someone must be
buying them other than the Chinese lathe manufacturers. If you are
only going to have one chuck, a four jaw is preferable as you can do
darn near anything with it, while a three jaw is only good for
holding round or hex stock. If holding hex stock is important to
you, be aware that a four jaw chuck can't hold it well - you have to
put the stock in a closely fitting split tube and clamp on the tube.
If you have to have a three jaw chuck and want to machine your
existing plate to mount it, the Bison 6 inch chuck with two piece
jaws is probably the best bet, it sells for $182.95 this month from
Enco. Bison is made in Poland, and is a nice step up from the
Chinese stuff. If you really have to, the Phase II 3 jaw six incher
with two piece jaws is $86.29, from Travers. Not a bad price, but
not a chuck anywhere near as good as the Bison. I will plainly say
that I never met a Chinese 3 jaw that I liked. I have Cushman,
Skinner, Atlas, Bison, Buck, and Rohm chucks and think well of them
all - OK, the Rohm gives me a woody, but the price is really high
unless you luck into a nice one used. The Chinese chucks are far
lower in quality. The Chinese make OK (not great) four jaw chucks,
but pretty marginal three jaw chucks unfortunately. Avoid chucks
from India, I hear there are some nice ones, but the ones I've seen
make the Chinese ones look like mil-spec stuff in comparison. A
native Indian I worked with that owned a machine shop (in India)
wouldn't buy Indian tooling, he stuck with Buck and Rohm for lathe
chucks. Stan (6395) |
| Yes, it is 2 3/8" x 6, and it's a 16" lathe. (6404) |
| Buck Chuck?
|
| I have noticed that
the featured lathe belonging to Joe and Kay Scopelliti has a 4" Buck
Chuck. I have looked up "Buck Chuck" in every machine tool book I
own with no explanation of what that is. Could someone enlighten
me? Is this some kind of slang term for a small chuck? This probably
shows my lack of knowledge of machine tools but I am trying to
learn. Brian F.
(7140) |
| Buck is a
chuck manufacturer, I believe they are the trademark holder of
"Adjust-Tru." Stan
(7144) |
| Buck is the
brand name of a high end company here in the USA. They are known for
their "set-tru" feature on their 3-jaw and 6-jaw chucks, which
allows correction for runout. They are quite expensive, if you look
at prices in catalogs. I have heard that Bison (brand name made in
Poland) are considered to of similar quality, and less pricey. I
can't tell from the photo whether the featured lathe has a 6-jaw or
a 3-jaw chuck. 6 jaw chucks are especially good for holding thin
walled tubing. With a good 6-Jaw chuck, I have read that you don't
even need to ever use collets, because it holds round stock so well.
Jon (7145) |
| Its a brand
of high quality. In a way, a defacto standard of excellence. Look
them up in the industrial supply catalogs, such as J L Industrial:
http://www.jlindustrial.com/ For us more modest of means, Bison
chucks are a very good deal. I have 4 I also have a Kitagawa 6"
3-jaw that came with the SB 9A, which I understand is quite good as
well, but I still prefer the Bison. Rick K. (7146) |
| Jon, I'll
tell you that you'll need collets if you do bearings or need a
precision bore. When you get down to tenths, any clamping force will
distort the part. Tom (7149) |
| I have a 4"
Buck chuck. I have no idea where it originally came from. Mine is a
Set-Tru and has a 3C arbor threaded into the back. No idea if that
helped or not, glad to tell you anything else that I can about it.
Dave (7332) |
| Buck makes
premium chucks and can be found in the MSC catalog. You have a
winner, if it is in good shape. MSC may be found at
www.MSCDIRECT.COM
Tom (7356) |
| Working out
stiff chuck |
| I've got what
should be a really nice 6" 3-jaw chuck for my 9A, a Kitagawa.
Problem is, its so stiff I don't want to use it. Takes to much time
and effort to open/close the jaws. Its way stiffer than anything
I've come across before. I tore it down today and found some pretty
stiff grease in there but the problem really comes from the scroll
being too snug a fit on the chuck center. To remove the scroll it
took tapping it around the clock thru the jaw slots. Same to get it
back together again from the back/gear side of the scroll. Close
tolerances are one thing, and probably good in what should be a good
chuck, but this is clearly too tight. I want to loosen it up a bit
without over doing it. Deburring corners and lapping occurs to me,
as does using some fine carborundum paper, but I'd like to hear some
thoughts from the group before I go further. Rick K.
(7162) |
| Real fine
lapping compound? I've used Comet-and-oil a few times in the
past. (7165) |
| Check the
finish on both sides of that fit. If one side is rough, that's the one
to work on. Emery cloth will probably do the job don't get to carried
away that fit effects the accuracy of the chuck. And clean all the
grit out of the works when your done so it cant cause further wear.
RC
(7168) |
| Figured it
out. First, I tried lapping compound, but even with the finest grit,
I couldn't even get the scroll back into the chuck, its all such a
tight fit. I didn't want to make lapping fixtures just yet, so
abandoned lapping. In checking things further, and after polishing
the inner scroll race and chuck journal with 600 grit carborundum,
which made no difference, I discovered that the scroll OD was not
concentric with the ID, by several thousandths. The surface was very
roughly turned and clearly was not a bearing surface so I figured to
clean it up a bit. First, I tried a file to knock burs off the
teeth. That improved things but didn't fix the problem. So, I held
it by the inner race (ID) in the Bison 6-jaw Set-Tru chuck and
indicated the inner race in to 0.0001 TIR. Then turned a little off
a bit from the high side of the OD. A couple iterations of this and
the scroll now wiggles in by hand and turns smoothly. Teflon grease.
The jaws are still quite tight, which makes for fairly stiff
cranking, but it is definitely better than before and now usable.
Holding a 1/2" reamer blank, there is less than 0.001" TIR at the
jaws and 0.0015" TIR about 4" out. Not quite as good as I was hoping
for but not bad. Rick K. (7204) |
| Missing chuck
jaws |
| I have a South Bend Heavy 10
lathe, with a SB 5 inch 3-jaw chuck (D1-4 spindle). This chuck is
missing 2 of the 3 jaws that are used for holding the larger
diameter work (the jaw set for smaller stuff is complete). Would
anybody know where I might go to find the two missing jaws I need?
I've written to South Bend, and am waiting for their response, but I
suspect that if they have the jaws, the price may be a bit high. The
chuck number is PT32452 and the one jaw of the incomplete set is
marked 8704 3. (So, I suspect I need 8704 1 and 8704 2.) Dale
(8298) |
| Several
manufacturers make replacement jaws for many different chuck brands,
MSC and Travers carry them and if SBL outsourced chucks from Buck
or whoever, mine came with a Union brand chuck, it ought to be even
easier. MSC lists a bunch of different jaws for different
specific-brand chucks, and also lists "American Standard" sizes.
Failing that, I'd take all the dimensions on the jaw you have and
write to PKE and Plaza and Sobel and the other big-name
used-machinery dealers whose names bounce around this list.
Lurch (8299) |
| Needed: Buying
Guide for Chucks |
| I need some chucks
for the 9" A. I know most recommend both the three and the four jaw
chuck. Is there any specific brand/make that is superior to the
others? Which chucks should be avoided? I'll probably buy used
chucks. Do I want one with a back plate or is integral threading
better? A simple rating system/ballpark price guide would be
appreciated. (8470) |
| Just my
opinion--a 3-jaw or 6-jaw scroll chuck [where all 3 or 6 jaws close
at the same time] is mighty convenient. It's fine for, say, a part
that will later be parted off a piece of stock...when I need an
already-finished part fixtured with absolute concentricity, however,
I turn to the independent 4-jaw. I also use the 4-jaw for clamping
irregular workpieces--which a scroll chuck can't do at all. If I
could only have one chuck it would be a 4-jaw independent. The
independent 4-jaw takes more patience to set up, however chuckle
I've heard of 4-jaw scroll chucks but never seen one. Brand-wise,
I've heard Buck spoken of highly. My chucks are a Union 4-jaw as old
as the lathe [1937], a Union 3-jaw and a $99-on-sale Enco 3-jaw.
After 70 years the 4-jaw can still hold a part with absolute zero
runout if I take the time to set it up. That old Union 3-jaw seems
about as accurate [or inaccurate] as that brand-new Enco 3-jaw. The
3-jaws will just get more inaccurate as the scrolls [and the
scroll-engagement teeth on the backs of the jaws] wear...but for new
jobs where the stock clamped in the chuck stays behind when the
workpiece is parted off, that's fine, as it takes more time to set
up the 4-jaw and I'm basically lazy. Lurch (8471) |
| I recently
bought a "Bison 5 inch 3J with an interigal 1 1/2x8 back for $200
cdn. It will repeat to .0015"tir. I've seen them advertised in the
USA for similar prices. You can easily spend more on a chuck than
you did for the lathe. Most of us can live with the tolerances we
will get with chucks of the "bison" flavor. I would stay away from
the Ebay specials, as you don't know what you will get. You could
try Plaza Machinery, Meridian Machinery, or Sobel Machinery for
used, They won't sell you junk. Pete (8472) |
| Lurch's
advice is dead on. The only thing that has not been mentioned yet is
length of chuck. the shorter the better. my 4 jaw skinner which I
unfortunately let go, was nice and compact. maybe 3" total length
from register surface to front of jaws. The Cushman's that I have now
are almost 5 to 6 inches from register to jaws. They are also MUCH
heavier. What does this mean: deflection of the spindle. The shorter
the distance and lighter the weight of the chuck means that the nose
of the spindle has less load, and in turn imparts less stress on the
bearings. Measurable, yes but not with the tools that I have
currently. It some thing to consider though. dennis
(8477) |
| Lurch covered
the options very well here, but it might be worth adding a couple of
thoughts to the mix. After living with an old 6" Cushman 3 jaw on my
SB Heavy 10" for ~30 years, I sort of got out of control when the
11" Hardinge arrived and over a period of three years I fell to the
temptation of picking up eleven different chucks for it - all off of
ebay. In the process I discovered that while it is obviously
essential to have at least *one* chuck, it is almost impossible to
have *too many* chucks...though that many is admittedly pushing the
concept a bit. :-) With patience you can find them for $50-$100 each
like I did. You do take a chance with used chucks in terms of wear,
but if my sample is any indication, you won't go too far wrong
buying used and then cleaning them up. Spending some time
dismantling them and then cleaning the exterior surfaces with a scotchbrite
pad will do wonders. The 5"
looked like a rusty mess when it arrived, but it was just surface
rust and the scroll and jaws turned out to be in fairly good shape.
The most critical surface is between the chuck body and the jaw
locating grooves. If the jaws are quite loose when they are slid
into the body with the scroll removed, there's not a whole lot you
can do. If the grooves are bow tie or wedge shaped because of wear,
you've basically had it. If they are reasonable parallel, then a few
thousandths of hard chroming is a possibility, depending on how much
deposition you're talking about. I've also heard of brass shims
being epoxied on the rear part of the groove in badly worn jaws, but
haven't tried that myself. Frankly I'm less concerned about scroll
wear than wear in the grooves, which will cause the jaws to cock at
an angle flaring out toward the front when you tighten the scroll.
Scroll wear is generally equalized on the jaw teeth, so if the jaws
are reasonably tight in the body it causes far fewer problems. In
further illustration, the three 6" chucks here are Bucks, two 3 jaw
and one 6 jaw. Having two identical chucks eliminates having to swap
out the jaws every time you need to use internal or external jaws.
Besides being a lot more convenient, that reduces wear and tear on
the scroll and jaw gear teeth as well. Having multiple chucks is
also useful when you need to stop and do something else in the lathe
- I just leave the stock chucked in and put the chuck up on a shelf
until I can get back to it. The adjust-tru feature is a nice
addition, though for most work it's not that critical. The 6 jaw is
essentially an extension of the 5C collet set to larger diameters,
because doubling the number of contact surfaces reduces the
distortion and stress introduced into thin parts when you clamp down
on them. You can even pull three of the jaws to use on parts that
fit best in the remaining 3 jaws. If you can only have one chuck (in
addition to a 4 jaw) for financial or space reasons, I'd see if I
could stretch the budget to a 6 jaw type. The problem with the 6"
Bucks is their weight and size. The lathe will certainly handle
them, but having them spun up to 3000 rpm to machine a small
aluminum part that you need to watch pretty closely is an exercise
in faith and trust in them being balanced and hanging together, not
to mention their tendency to scatter swarf and coolant at an
alarming rate across the shop simply because of windage. Partly as a
result, I picked up a cute little 5" Union, and later a pair of 5"
Hardinge (Pratt-Burnerd) chucks, which are heavier than the Union
but amazingly accurate - again, one with internal jaws and one with
external. The Union is about half the depth, and the width of the
jaw is half that of the Hardinge chucks, so I find myself using it
for smaller parts quite frequently. It's also the only one which has
an integral mount. All the rest use detachable backplates, but I
haven't found a whole lot of difference other than lighter weight
(and lack of flexibility if you want to move up to a different lathe
and retain your old tooling.) Speaking of weight, the huge plain
bearing surfaces on the SB can hold a significant weight without
protest or damage - the ones in my Heavy 10 are larger than a big
block Chevy rear main! Spinning it for a while to get the oil warmed
up is probably a good idea before putting on a heavy chuck and
workpiece, but even the 9" has a healthy capacity weight-wise *if*
the bearings have adequate lubrication, which is another reason I
run a synthetic oil in the sumps. Now, I can think of at least one
good reason to run a heavier chuck, and that's when you have a rough
piece that you are hacking away on with an interrupted cut. The
extra mass will reduce the shock loading on the spindle bearings,
and in general, the more mass the smoother the finish. You learn
this on a milling machine pretty quickly, but it's no less true with
a lathe. The heavier chucks are a pain to swap out with a threaded
mount, however, and it doesn't seem like a good idea to leave them
on full time because of the cold start problem with the bearings. My
last two "hex/cylindrical" chucks are oddballs - a diminutive 4"
Buck 6 jaw adjust-tru that I purchased primarily so I wouldn't need
to buy an expanding collet set, and a 6" Buck that has only two
opposing jaws. Yes, it's weird, and you can get the same
functionality by removing two jaws out of a four jaw chuck - but it
is used in industry to machine odd shaped parts in a production
setting. I don't think this last one is a best seller for Buck. I
got it primarily because it was dirt cheap and had the Buck
backplate for the Hardinge, which I promptly swapped over to one of
the 6" chucks that needed it. Completing the menagerie is a trio of
four jaw chucks - a 5" Hardinge and 6" and 8" Bucks. I don't find
myself using them very often, however...it's just as easy to dial in
using adjust-tru - but there are situations where they will be the
only thing that works...like making eccentric cams, for instance.
I'll admit I went a little overboard, and my wife has since banned
the word "chuck" in my occasional ebay searches, but like any tool,
each one has its particular features for particular jobs. Mike
(8515) |
| Largest chuck
on a 10L? |
| What is the
rule of thumb for the biggest chuck you should put on a lathe?
Specifically, I'm wondering how big would be reasonable on my 10
Heavy. Wallace
(8727) |
| The "rule of
thumb" is one inch greater than the radius of swing. So, for
practical purposes; a chuck of 6 inches would be max. My personal
consideration is one of "weight", and I use only chucks of 4 and 5"
diameters on my 10L machines. I have never understood the desire of
many to hang a large, heavy chuck on a small machine. Perhaps
someone can enlighten us. (8729) |
| Not sure
about enlightenment, but I think FMP has it exactly right.
Traditionally, the 10L gets a 6" 3 jaw and an 8" 4 jaw (the 4 jaw is
not typically as heavy as the 3 jaw from most chuck manufacturers.)
The rule of thumb I've been taught is "use the minimum diameter that
will support the workpiece and cutting regime for that job." That
means that occasionally you would like to have an 8" chuck of some
sort simply because of the dimensions of what you are turning,
though feeds and speeds would be advised to be a bit less than
production rates. It also means it would be much better to use a
little 4" if that's all that the workpiece needed. As previously
discussed, the plain bearings in the SB lathes have an impressive
capacity...but that doesn't mean you want to run at the edge of the
envelope on a steady basis. Having said that, it appears that a
fairly massive 6" Cushman has been on my 10L since 1943 without
significant bearing wear. Mike (8730) |
| SB Lathe 9"
Chuck 1-7/8 x 8 Skinner |
| I just acquired my first lathe, a 1937 SB13. I ran a
brake lathe 30 years ago, but that is the extent of my experience. I
must say, that so far, this group has been very helpful. There is a
South Bend Lathe 9" Chuck 1-7/8 x 8 Skinner for sale on Ebay. The
buy-it-now price is $100. Is that a fair price for this item? If I
measured correctly, it should fit. Jerry
(9628) |
| Jerry, I have a
SB13 and use a 9" 4 jaw on it from time to time. Seems to work out
pretty good. Most people prefer a smaller chuck when possible
because of the weight. South Bends "How to run a lathe" recommends a
6" 3 jaw and a 7" 4 jaw on the 13" lathe. Get you a copy of that
book if you don't already have it. Jeff (9637) |
| 6-jaw chuck
question |
| I just got a
"new" used Buck 6-jaw chuck for my South Bend. It seems to hold
things at an angle - there's about 20-30 thou run-out at 6 inches
using a 2 inch round bar. Near the chuck the runout is only a few
thou. I've never used a Buck before and wonder if this is something
I can adjust - it doesn't seem likely, but thought I'd ask. My
spindle has no measurable cam action and my old 3-jaw chuck gives
about 3 thou runout for the whole length of the same 2-inch bar.
What I gotta do? Frank
(9759) |
| Could be
several things. Most of them are not particularly good. The
first thing to do is mount the test bar with the jaws just barely
touching it - stop at the first resistance you feel when turning the
key. It helps to turn the bar while you're cranking down the key so
you can feel when it's finally gripped. If you can then see the test
bar rocking within the jaws, then you know you have a problem. If
you can determine its source from rocking it back and forth, then
you can go after that part of the problem. If not, mount an
indicator somewhere on a lightly snugged cross slide and indicate on
the body of the chuck in two places - one near the back plate and
one near the jaw side, just to make sure you have the four "adjust-tru"
screws set correctly for minimum runout. Buck claims an ability to
be set to .0002" runout, but it will take a bit of fiddling to get
that. If you can zero on of the measuring locations and the other
runs out, then you have a sprung backplate and will have to take a
skim cut on it to fix it. This is the easiest problem to solve, so I
sincerely hope this is it. (I'm assuming you previously have
completely broken down the chuck to individual parts and cleaned and
checked for burrs, swarf, etc. If this is not true, then you
probably need to do that before anything else.) If that's not the
problem, then indicate on the tip of a jaw. Push and pull the jaw
axially (parallel to the axis of the spindle) to see how much play
there is. If the chuck is badly worn, you may get quite a bit of
slop between the keyway in an individual jaw and its mating key in
the chuck. (You can also measure this more conventionally with a
micrometer and a snap gage.) Each jaw should fit tightly into its
keyway (it will when it's new) but if there's a lot of wear there's
not much you can do about it. That is one common reason for
"splaying" a piece of stock at an angle. The other (most common, in
my limited experience) is the outer tips of the jaws having greater
wear on the gripping surface than the inner ends. I think this is
caused by chucking short pieces in the chuck right at the tip. You
should be able to see that when you take a jaw out and look at the
entire length of the gripping edge - it will look like a trapezoid
if there is a lot of wear. You can at least make the chuck usable by
regrinding the jaws at a convenient diameter, but it will be
accurate only at that diameter. See
http://www.loganact.com/tips/chuck-jaw.htm
for a start. If all of those checks are negative, then pull the jaws
out. Put the indicator on the face and run the cross slide back and
forth in the Y direction, with the indicator on the face between
each gap, and then again on one of the keyways for each jaw. If you
get a variation in reading there, then the chuck body has been
sprung, and you need to relegate the chuck to "junk" turning. Mike (9762) |
|
4 jaw chuck |
| I have a Skinner 4
jaw chuck, part no. 4006-53 that is missing one jaw. Where I can try and locate one. (10681) |
| I have the
same chuck and would love to get two extra jaws for a jig. Please
let me know if you find a source or maybe we can buy one on ebay and
split it. max (10682) |
| You can try
Tooling Systems at 800-873-3221. They handle Skinner/Cushman chucks.
Rose (10683) |
| FYI, they
also have a website http://www.toolingsystems.com Dave
(10698) |
| I called
Cushman to get a price on new chuck jaws. plain garden variety 6" 3
jaw scroll chuck, model 103. Hold on to your seats guys and
gals..... set of 3 master jaws: $1328 set of 3 hardened top jaws:
$1129 one could buy NEW quality American made for about half of
either! dennis
(10702) |
| Sterling Silver is
priced somewhere near that, and someone should tell Cushman it is a
poor choice to make a chuck from. And a few other things as well.
Bluntly put, they did not do that good a job on my OEM chuck that
came with the lathe, though things certainly could have changed in
fifty years. Maybe the Cushman chucks are a sideline, and their
usual business is making parts for Jaguar!
(10703) |
| I recently
approached Pratt-Burnerd for a set of jaws for a 5" chuck of theirs.
Someone warned me to sit down when I read the reply, but they never
even bothered to answer my query! Len (10704) |
| Try
www.mscdirect.com chucks. I have a 4in 3-jaw on a
6in 4-jaw. they have all sorts of replacement jaws. tomd
(10731) |
| Kalamazoo
Chuck |
| My SB Model A had a
chuck stamped Kalamazoo, Mich. 6066. It is a 4 jaw chuck with 4
independent jaws. The thing looks brand new. It is missing 2 of the
4 worm screws that operate the jaws. Are these screws standard for
most chucks and can I buy replacements somewhere? Eric
(10803) |
| You have a
Kalamazoo chuck and you can order the stuff you need from them or
get it through a tool supplier that deals with KCM chucks. Don't
sell it, it's just about the best chuck made. Kerry (10812) |
| Kerry,
Upon closer examination, the chuck had Kalamazoo Ind stamped on it
which I think is Kalamazoo Industrial. They are still in business
but I think the chuck is obsolete. There is a tooling company called
D'Angelo that carries hard to find parts and they carry Kalamazoo
Industrial. I will give them a call and see if they can supply the
parts. It still looks like a very fine chuck. Eric (10814) |
| Get in the
MSC catalog the book not the CD or online which is just about
useless.
anyway they have a page with all the parts for a bunch of different
chucks all spect out. most of the good chucks are made to a standard
so jaws and screws are usually fairly easy to get. We have a SCI 8"
at work that was to expensive to rebuild so we bought a new KCM set
through chuck That alone helped that lathe out a lot. Kerry (10816) |
| New BTC 6"
chuck |
| I bought a new 6' BTC 4 jaw chuck in
January to replace the 69 year old one that accompanied my lathe
when I bought it. Unfortunately, I , being a newbie, did not
anticipate that chucks, like individual Americans, have grown over
the years- this new chuck weighs 22 lbs without the mounting plate.
Randy Reynolds at SB says it should be ok, but my 9" is the 405
model, the unrecognized 1st model Workshop that I believe is
dimensionally smaller than a typical Workshop Nine, and it looks
gargantuan on the spindle, and it makes me nervous when the machine
is running at a high speed. Will sell without the backing plate
since it matches my obscure 1 3/8 x 10tpi spindle. Email me offline
for offers. Shiny new model #4064 with both sets of jaws and wrench,
in the box it came in, and I've been told that BTC chucks are
American made on the west coast; their website,
www.btcchuck.com,
lists it at $195, same as I paid. By the way, this all started
because the original chuck has the square drive hole on the
adjusting screws hogged out and cracked- the rest is believed ok.
Once again, does anybody know who sells parts to old chucks this
size? The two biggest chuck suppliers in the Cleveland OH area say
they don't have anything that small. Buy now and we both avoid the
ebay fandango! Bill (11041) |
| Don't jump
too quickly. I to have a 405Y. Only now its a bit of a hybrid. I
have replaced the headstock with a more modern one. I am in the
process or swapping spindles to a 1 1/2-8. I have always (15 years)
had a 6" 4-jaw. I bought mine from Enco about 1987. I had a back
plate threaded at the "Cutler Hammer" shop when I worked at Eaton in
Milwaukee when I worked there. There is little difference in the
size of this lathe. The journals in the spindle are the same as a 9"
workshop, or a 10K for that matter. I have both kinds of spindles
here and they both fit the new headstock as does the old 405. If the
reason for not using the new chuck is the lathe, I don't think that
if you put the chuck newer on a workshop it would look any
different. Some day, when I finish the conversion I will post all
the differences in the parts that I run into, but the spindle, the
bull gear and the back gears are all basically the same. (I had to
take 5/16 of the length of the back gears to get them to fit. Jim (11042) |
| Bill: I have
a Skinner 4006 four jaw chuck that is missing one jaw. If your chuck
will match the jaw screw on this chuck, I would be interested in
buying. Please let me know if this is a fit. Barry (11043) |
| William, You
may want to try WWC (Worldwide Chuck Service) Inc. located in
Aurora, Ohio. You must be in the Cleveland area so its not far away.
Their Web site says they have new and used parts for chucks 6" to 8
feet for most brands. I got to their site with the following link
www.buckchucks.com . I have never talked with them or tried to
purchase from them so the link is all I have to offer. Soon to
complete my Heavy 10" rebuild Dennis (11045) |
| Dennis-they
are good-but they're the guys I got the chuck from! Bill (11052) |
| Barry, I
don't know how old your Skinner is, but this thing, in the tradition
of modern chucks, is a lot bigger than the typical chuck I have seen
originally with our lathes. Here goes the dimension of the
jaws:2.380 long x .793 wide x 2.060 tall at the tallest of three
steps. Literally half again as big in each direction as the old 4
jaw chuck jaws. By the way, I misspoke myself, the 4 jaw came with
one set of jaws. The above dimensions are in inches. It is threaded
about 7 tpi in an Acme thread on the bottom. By the way, my old 4
jaw that needs the new screws needs em to be 2.275 long, threaded
17/32 x 12 tpi Acme (!) turned down to .290 .518 from the inside end
with a 1/4 square hole on the other end. Buy a beer for the guy who
can find those! Thought about turning one but I don't know how to
put the square hole for the key in the end, or remachined a repair on
the old one. Bill (11054) |
| Jim, thanks
for the kind offer for your backplates, I'll be happy to take them.
Thanks also for the encouraging info on the spindles. Bill (11055) |
| Have you
looked into repairing the chuck-screws using silver solder and an
insert made from either a small socket (1/4" square drive) or the
head of a socket-head cap screw? You could file some flats on an
insert so that it would fit (-.005") the worn drive recess in the
chuck-screw. I am a big fan of Forney low-temperature silver solder
($4/kit last time I bought some). (11057) |
| Well I was
told by more then one person here that running a 6" chuck is not
only bad but will destroy the machine. But In the South Bend "how to
run a lathe" it states the the largest chuck that can be used on a
9" machine was 6" So I'll take south bends word for it. It's always
good to err on the side of safety and machine heath. And besides
once my mill is up and running I'm going to build a new head stock
with Timken bearings. And maybe do that polyvbelt 20 speed deal.
Kerry (11060) |
| This concept
baffles me. I can run a 3" chuck and a 8" 300 pound roller between
centers and not hurt anything, but a little bit larger chuck and
parts start melting? I just made a new drill press column. the base
was some old rusted parts, turned out to be harden to about 0.1"
deep. could have been rust hardened ? or something, but no way the
abuse the lathe took busting thru that rust was much higher than
spinning a heavy chuck. I think that there are practical limits to a
chuck. no need to have a chuck so large that you cannot open the
jaws, but having one the jaws can open so wide that hitting the bed
is no a problem. The practical limit is the jaws just hitting the
bed when they are just getting to the scroll screw, so for either
reason, the chuck is past it's limits. short of that, any size is
good. I would not hesitate putting on a 8" if that solved my needs.
Dave
(11064) |
| William: I
took some pictures along with a scale to show one of the jaws that
is with the chuck. Does this look like the jaws you have? The jaws
are 'reversible' unlike the 3 jaw variety where a separate set is
required for inside and outside holding. Barry(11065) |
| Barry, looks
like my old ones but bigger. Sorry. Bill (11073) |
| Enco Chucks
|
| Does anyone have
any experience with those 79.00 chucks from Enco? (11455) |
| I bought a
$59.00 one from JTS. can't say about the Enco but I'm not going
cheep again. I have .001" of spindle movement in either direction
measured at the spindle as close to the bearing as I can, but with
the chuck on and measuring the part where it exits the jaws I get
.010" in either direction. I found their is to much clearance
between the master jaws and the slot it's in. Our $1500 KMC chuck
only has about a half thou clearance. I'm going to get a $250 buck
chuck at least then when I get the spec sheet I can check it my self
and send it back to the people that made it. Oh well I needed a
cheep chuck for my rotary table anyway. Kerry (11463) |
| This whole
issue of chucks is puzzling to me. My 10k came with a SB 5-inch
3-jaw and a 6-inch 4-jaw independent. They both are very nice
chucks, but I wanted a more repeatedly accurate scroll chuck and
bought a "new" Bison that came with a test report sheet. The test
sheet made no sense at all. It had nothing to do with Polish, it
just made no sense. Has anyone ever made sense of a Bison test
report? Anyway, the "new" Bison was a piece of crap and I returned
it, test sheet and all. I am still looking for a small 3-jaw scroll
chuck that is accurate and might next try a Bison set-tru. Hate to
spend a grand on a Buck (Mother doesn't earn that much ;-) ) Has
anybody on this list got personal experience with a small Bison set-tru?
I'm afraid that if I buy one and mount it to a backing plate at it
turns out like my last Bison that I won't be able to return it.
Frank
(11465) |
| Frank, It's
the nature of the beast, you can't get repeatable accuracy from a
3-jaw scroll chuck. I have a Buck and an import both and with either
the initial chucking is .005" to .020" runout. That's why common
practice is to use oversize stock in a 3-jaw and turn to final size.
The only convenient way to get repeatability within a few thou (ie
without the pain of setting up a 4-jaw) is with a collet chuck. But
this limits you to standard collet diameters and 5C (which I use)
tops out at 7/8". Not trying to sound discouraging, as the 3-jaw is
a very useful chuck. The Set-Tru's are interesting animals, but the
fiddling involved approaches that of a 4-jaw (but on the plus side
they're apparently gold plated platinum $$$ 8-) I've found that it's
easier (and cheaper) to work within the capabilities of the
equipment you have than to try and get the equipment to the
tolerances you think it should have. It makes you think (ouch) and
plan a little more, but in the end it makes you appreciate the
finished part a little more. Just my 2c (and worth every penny I'm
sure ;-) In memory to those who have fallen. Jeff (11467) |
| Try the TOS chucks. They are excellent. max
(11469) |
| I have a
120mm TOS 3 jaw chuck that is beautifully made it seems. It adjusts
like silk, came with 2 sets of jaws and key. Chronos for sure, and
maybe others, sell them in the UK. I got my chuck through an
independent machinery supplier, simply because he is nearby, but I
have dealt with Chronos and find them good. Chronos sell a 5"
Boxford blank backplate in their range, already threaded 8 tpi, and
has a generous oversize that would have been enough to machine to
120mm. I've not yet checked the runout. Len (11471) |
| I had a little trouble making sense of
the specs for machining the back plate, at first. (Maybe growing up
in a Polish neighborhood helped!?) but I took my time and was very
careful machining the backplate. I bought the #3605 6-1/4" four-jaw
scroll chuck, and that has not been my experience at all. I love it.
It is beautifully finished and fitted, like a fine watch, and I
would not be without it. I just ran down and checked: With a
centerless ground 2" rod chucked I measure 0.0005" runout 1" from
the jaws. With a 3/8" centerless ground dowel pin chucked at 3" from
the jaws I get 0.00075" runout. Being an amateur home machinist,
basically, I am not going to pretend for a minute that I need
anything like that because most of the work I do is to a couple of
thousandths. It is not perfect, but this model is far from being a
piece of junk, I thought. It is a massive chuck and looks a little
silly on my Model A. While I was machining the metric backplate, and
doing conversions, I must have been talking to myself a LOT, because
my wife came down and said, "If you can leave your little friends,
Supper is ready!".
(11472) |
| KBC is where I
bought mine a couple of years ago. I think the major tool suppliers
should have them I bought a 4 jaw universal as well as a 3 jaw and I
think they are very high quality. max (11473) |
| Jeff
I "make do" with an awful lot, but I consistently
need to thread fairly thin-wall brass tubing in diameters that range
from about 1 inch to 2 inches. I need to get the piece as true as
possible because the center of the threaded part has to be
coincident with the center of the entire tube. Hence my thoughts
about a "tru-set" or equivalent. I am surprised that your chucks
give you .005 to .020 runout. My old SB 3-jaw does about .002-.003
consistently, which is OK for general work, but simply not good
enough
for my application. I am thinking of a 4-inch 3-jaw. Anybody ever
use one or a 6-jaw set tru? Frank
(11475) |
| Frank: your thin wall application almost sounds like it really wants to be held
on an internal/expanding mandrel or a 6-jaw chuck. I would be afraid
to leave marks or even crush the tube with a 3 jaw. dennis
(11477) |
| Dennis
You're right - it is a tad delicate but I never have crushed or left
marks using my SB 3-jaw. I have never used a 6-jaw chuck. Would love
a 4-inch six-jaw tru-test or centerable Buck! Frank
(11479) |
| I agree with
the above posts that a standard runout on a 3 jaw is about .003" TIR.
Now a chuck that runs out .020" out of the box and was pricey to
boot is going back in the box and to get a refund. Our company just
bought a Kalamazoo Chuck 8" D1-6 set thru style. It was $1200 plus
the backing plate for another $300. But it only runs out .0005" at
1" dia and .001" on a 3" dia. Now with all this talk on how accurate
a chuck should be. no one is saying anything about how to keep it
that way. Chips are the big enemy they get in the scroll and foul
things up so keep those chucks clean, Don't continue to open or
close the chuck if it gets tighter, back it off and blow it out.
Then try again. How can you expect a precision instrument to
maintain it's accuracy if you use it to grind up chips. You need to
think of your chuck as if it was as delicate as your micrometer.
This alone will make your chuck out live you. Kerry (11482) |
| Good point. My Model A came with a
Cushman chuck. The lathe was, at the end of its life at this
company, used in the "Technician Pool" and cleaning it was always the
next guy's job. When I got the lathe home, I got years of chips and
dirt out of it. And now when you shake it you can hear the scroll
rattling around. The jaws show many, many impacts with tools, and I
suspect the jaws were used with bars and wrenches to remove the
chuck from the spindle. It is a wall ornament. Maybe I can use it on
a rotary welding table. Or as an anvil. (11484) |
| Change out
chuck |
| I have a 3 jaw
chuck on my SB9 A and want to put my 4 jaw chuck on the lathe. Is
there an easy way to remove the 3 jaw chuck? I have a copy of How to
Run A Lathe 42nd Edition but it isn't clear as to how to remove the
chuck. Barry
(11931) |
| Barry Just
put the lathe in back gear so the spindle won't turn and use a big
crescent wrench to grip the outer jaw, it should turn right off.
Fritz (11937) |
| This is good
advise for removal. Just make SURE that you do not hit it with a
lead hammer you can chip off a tooth on your back gear quill. I
KNOW! Dick (11949) |
| Grizzly Chuck
out of round |
| Finally got to
the point where I am up and running on my 9A and looked at the chuck
spinning to a fro. Took the chuck off and the adapter that grizzly
supplied to the previous owner, only goes as far as the threads go.
Shouldn't it go all the way back on the spindle and sit flat
against the back of the bearing (or whatever that part of the
headstock is)? If I take the adapter itself off and thread it onto
the spindle and fire it up, if has an obvious wobble to it.
Steve
(13017) |
| That part of
the spindle is called the register. see the faq for links where to
find data etc.... yes, your spindle adapter should thread on, but
not rely on the threads for alignment. this is a bad thing. Sounds
like you need to either buy, or better yet make a new chuck adapter.
Search the archives on how this is done. Until you put any load on
it, ie a chuck or work. dennis
(13023) |
| Yes, it
should seat against the shoulder. The threads of the spindle just
hold it on, the no-wobble depends upon it seating properly on the
shoulder. The adapter plate should go right to the shoulder ad there
should be NO wobble or out-of-round on it. Frank
(13024) |
| Selection of a
chuck |
| I've just ordered a
4-inch 3-jaw Bison and adapter plate. I have never mounted a chuck
before and there is a bit of info at the back of "How To Run a
Lathe" but it's pretty cursory. The FAQs don't seem to have any info
on this either. Is it pretty straightforward or is there something I
should know about before I start (hopefully this weekend if it
arrives) Frank PS just got the Enco flyer - they have them on sale
now and it looks like a pretty good deal.
(13035) |
| Would
the chuck with the threaded back be more accurate than turning an
adapter plate? It certainly would be easier and the cost is about
the same. Which way would the group go? Threaded back or plane back
and backing plate? Jim B.
(13041) |
| I checked the
specs (given in MSC catalogue, not ENCO) and it appears that the
runout on the adapter plate/chuck is less than the already threaded
back (.0012 vs .0008") This small diff is important to me. Frank
(13048) |
| Frank, I
prefer the back plate. You can turn the back plate to fit you lathe.
I bought a 8" Cushman 3 jaw chuck for my 1920 21" SB took the
threaded back flange off of a old chuck I got with the lathe, chuck
was of no use. Made a back plate out of 3/4" plate bolted it to the
threaded back, trued the face and turned it down to a tap fit on the
Cushman, bolted it up and had .000 run out. I have to make all parts
for my lathe. There are some pictures in the photo's. Duane (13059) |
| Adjusting
Adjust-Tru Chuck |
| I recently "won" a
used Buck Adjust-True chuck on E-bay. How does one true it up? I
checked "FILES" but did not see anything. It is a 6 jaw chuck with
two sets of jaws. I also checked the archives for " adjust true"
"set tru" and "true set". Jim B (13254) |
| Check this series
on chucks, two of them deal with adjustable centering chucks.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mwhints4/files/LatheChucks/ JWE
(13255) |
| I read through the
entire series and if there is a proceedure I missed it. I assume
that the first thing is to be sure the backing plate is properly
seated. There are 4 hex head capscrews. Do these center the scroll?
Do you need to back off one and then tighten the other? Is the
adjustment on of moving the axis center to the lathe center as
opposed to "tilting" the axis of the chuck? Jim B. (13269) |
| On my 6" 6-jaw Buck
Adjust-Tru chuck the centering screws are hex head setscrews, just
in front of the backing plate. These offset the entire chuck body
relative to the backing plate. You back off one and tighten the one
opposite, just like you would with a 4-jaw chuck, except you do it
with an Allen wrench rather than a chuck key. You don't need to
loosen the bolts which mount the chuck body to the backing plate to
make this adjustment. The only adjustment available is axial offset,
not angle of the axis. I have a 1-page (both sides) sheet from Buck
describing the chuck, maintenance, etc. I don't have a scanner, but
if you want a copy, send me a snail-mail address and I'll spring for
a stamp. Frank (13274) |
| You are on the
right track with the 4 cap screws. Do it like a 4 jaw. I have a Buck
and I will mail you copy of my instructions if you can get me your
address. I am leaving for a week on Mon AM but I'll do it when I get
back. MG. (13289) |
| Jim, I'm not very
familiar with Buck adjustable chucks, but I am with Bison's version
of them. Poor contact of the jaws with your round stock can probably
only be solved with re-grinding the jaws, with a toolpost grinder.
The other two issues, wiggling of the chuck body (if that's the
correct reading) and run-out of the chuck body seem like they are
tightening and "adjustment" issues. You should be able to get rid of
the "wiggle" by tightening the screws (on the face of the chuck)
that hold the body to the adapter plate. I typically do this after
adjusting the runout of the body to where I need it. That locks the
body to the backplate and gives you the most rigidity. They could be
left only snug, but not such that you could wiggle the body. As for
the body runout, that should be how the chuck is adjusted for the "Tru-Set"
feature. The adjusting screws on the outside diameter (on the Bison
at least) apply pressure to a shoulder on the backplate (not the jaw
scroll plate). Adjusting opposing screws allows you to reduce the
runout or increase it, whatever your needs are. By repeated
adjustments, you should be able to get the body to have virtually no
runout. That is approximately where I would think you should have
the least amount of runout in stock held in the jaws too. It sounds
like your jaws are significantly worn though. Even so, this still
should be where they would be very close to centered and where I'd
adjust the body before regrinding the jaws. Make sure the jaws are
in their correct slots or at least in the correct sequence. Having
any out of sequence would make that jaw very much off-center
relative to the other jaws. Not sure if it would be more or less
than the 0.040" you mentioned for body TIR, but having them out of
sequence would sure screw things up. The key and talk about strain
on the spiral (scroll) would seem to be about the jaw tightening
key. This would not be related to the body adjustment and tightening
screws, only about how tight to make the jaws. Its conceivable that
overtightening the key/scroll could spring the jaws if holding a
part near the tips, but with hardened jaws, I'm not sure what would
spring. Rick (14184) |
| Canadian Chuck
Supplier |
| I need to find a Canadian source for tooling. I'm in Ontario. Right
now I'm looking for a chuck to fit my SB heavy 10 with a camlock.
Mike (14057) |
| A lot of Canadians
Use Travers Tool. (14058) |
| KBC tools has
outlets in Windsor and Mississauga. They have a pretty good catalog
and are online at www.kbctools.com
I don't know if they have what you need or if their prices are
competitive. I order most of my stuff from the States, just don't
get them to ship it UPS! John (14059) |
| Try either KBC
Tools and Machinery at
www.kbctools.com or E.M Precise Tool LTD. at info@emprecise.com
Ron (14061) |
| What does it cost
to ship "non UPS" is it a big difference ? Mike (14131) |
| You might try: SOWA
Tool Machine www.sowatool.com
(Kitchener ON, 1-800-265-8221) Busy Bee Tools
www.busybeetools.com
(Mississauga ON, VERY inexpensive offshore tooling) If you let me
know what area you are in, I might know of a few other places close
by. Paul (14150) |
| D1-4" Chuck
shopping |
| I have been looking
for a used chuck. CAM LOCK SPINDLE NOSE- 4" – D1. It doesn't
seem to be a very common thing. There are only a couple of Cam Lock
chucks on EBay but they are D1 - 3. Does anyone know where I can
find a used chuck ? Mike (14072) |
| Do Ebay Search
D1-4" Lathe Chuck. I found 12 listings. Ron (14074) |
| I did a search for
" D1 - 4 " before and only came up with a couple. So I tried it
without the spaces " D1-4" ". Found some interesting things. Now I
have a new question though. Some of the D1-4 mounts have 3 lock pins
and others have 6. Mike (14081) |
| All D1-4 Camlock
Spindle Adapter I have had any experience with have 6 Holes on the
Female or lathe part. Some chucks feature 6 Male pins so it is kind
of self explanatory but other chucks or attachments feature just 3
Male pins. You still install on same adapter but only lock up three
pins ( every other one ). On our machines at work chucks have 6 pins
and Collet holder has 3 pins. Ron (14089) |
| What am I
missing here ? There is a picture in the photo section of this lathe
under "mikesheavy10". The spindle has only the three holes ? If a
chuck has six I wonder if 3 of them could be removed :) Mike (14091) |
| Although I don't
own a D1 setup I will check at work on Monday and see if indeed you
can remove three of the pins. It makes sense that they can be
removed for repair or replacement so I'm thinking that is just what
you do. Ron (14093) |
| Here is a link that
shows the different setups
http://shopswarf.orcon.net.nz/chuckmt.html Mine sure looks like
and measures the same as the D1-4 except it only has three pins. Did
you look at the pic of my machine? Mike (14095) |
| Looked at your
machine and can see your problem. What we have at work is probably
D1-5 or D1-6 but principal should remain same. I'm still thinking
that you would just leave three pins out of male mating piece but
will check for sure Monday. Ron (14096) |
| Chuck Question
|
| I have a 1920 18"
SB with a 2 5/8"x 6th spindle and I am looking at a 12" 3 jaw chuck
with an L00 mount. Will this backing plate take the 2 5/8" x6 th, if
not could the backing plate be changed out to one that will? This is
Ebay item # 2574813754 ,12" Clausing 5900 Series 3 Jaw Chuck LOO
L00. Terrance (15182) |
| L00 is a long
taper. Check out all the types here.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/latheparts/page8.html It does not look
like that chuck has a plain back as in the L00 mount is integral.
Mark(15183) |
| You wouldn't happen
to have the L00 specs I can't read that table, no matter what I do I
can't make it clear enough to read . Terrance (15187) |
| It is in a book I
have here somewhere :) Those pics on
www.lathes.co.uk are high rez
and take a while to load and some times I have to hit reload a
couple of times to get it all. But its worth it. Excellent site.
Mark (15189) |
| Tony's site is
great and I have visited it many times and learned at lot there. I
have a pretty fast broadband connection, the clarity of those
pictures has not changed in several hours, it's not my computer, it
too is quite capable. I am afraid it is either a blurry scan ,
probably should have been saved in a different format, or just
scanned at too low a resolution. A 24K .gif file is not exactly a
high resolution image. I was able to determine that the chuck would
be useless for my application.
Terrance (15191) |
| I think the
slowness is on his end. I notice that when its night in the UK
things are faster, I bet the server is collocated in a business so
when everyone goes home. Mark (15194) |
| Here is another
link to all the direct mount specs.
http://shopswarf.orcon.net.nz/chuckmt.html Mike (15203) |
| Mike I really
appreciate it. The tables are totally clear and I was able to
confirm my previous guess. Terrance (15204) |
| Mounting chuck
on backplate |
| I had a nice page
bookmarked on how to mount a chuck onto a backplate. Now that I need
it I can't find it. Can anybody out there point me in the right
direction? Larry (15954) |
| Here's one:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/latheparts/page7.html Jeff (15957) |
| Might have been
this one:
http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/chuckmnt/chuckmnt.html Stan
(15962) |
| Chucks
shoulders too long |
| My 5" bison 1
1/2 x8 chuck, the shoulder on its backplate is a little too long,
seams like only a few of the spindles threads are actually engaging.
My 4 jaw chucks backplate has same problem, but worse. I know this
is a simple matter of flipping around the back plate and facing the
shoulder down to length, however, I tried doing that, and the plates
would only screw on about half way. There is no shoulder for it to
align to. I am thinking a spacer, however I would have to hunt down
some metal to make one or 2. Is their another way to go about doing
this? (17385) |
| I had the same
problem years ago when I was fitting a Bison 4 jaw chuck to my 9"
SBend. What I did was machine a bushing to take up the space between
the backplate and the register on the spindle. I mounted the
backplate in reverse and tightened it up with the bushing in place.
Then I proceeded to machine down the excess material on the back of
the backplate. The only thing that is important is to make sure when
you machine the spacer that the faces are completely flat and
parallel. Also be sure their are no chips, burrs, or dirt on the
surfaces when you mount it for the machining operation. Perk (17386) |
| Skinner 6"
chuck jaw needed |
| I have a south bend
lathe and it came with a 6 inch skinner chuck with 4 independent
jaws. one of the jaws was missing and the chuck is useless without
the jaw. I have been bidding on eBay for the whole chuck but no luck
so far. I hate to have to buy a whole chuck to get one jaw. If
anyone has a jaw they don't need, I would be willing to buy it. the
jaw is two inches long ,11/16th wide 1 1/2 height the thread is 8
tpi. Jack (17515) |
| Be advised that it
may not be in your best interest to use a different jaw in your
chuck. I always thought that jaws were matched to chuck housings at
the factory. Mine have numbers stamped on the jaws and like numbers
on the housing for matching. Wayne (17524) |
| Wayne I don't think
I would worry about any special matching on this chuck, as long as
the jaw fits. This is for an independent jaw chuck, so each jaw will
be tightened individually anyway. Would be an issue on a scroll
chuck. Unless I'm missing something? Jeff (17536) |
| Chuck info |
| I am going to get a
chance to buy a 3-jaw chuck for my Heavy Ten. I have been looking at the used equipment
that "Plaza Machinery" has on their website.
http://www.plazamachinery.com/index.html I need some basic info
that I should know but don't. First off I would like an adjust-tru
Buck. I think that is a good type for my needs. Some of the chucks
he offers have only "outside jaws" ,could someone explain the
difference between inside and outside jaws? I know that one holds
bar stock and the other holds say a pipe stock but which is which? I
also notice some have 2 piece jaws, what does that mean? Last are
the 6 jaw type all that much better for a hobbyist? I would really
like to get a 3-jaw that I can adjust to a fine runout on my lathe
but if I get a standard 3-jaw what kind of runout is to be expected
usually? I mean maybe I'm just being too picky with wanting an
adjustable one. My stock would mostly be small (less than 1") round
stock I think maybe some hex as well but that shouldn't matter,
right? I can spend ($275 or so) Tom (18466) |
| I have a 3 jaw and
4 jaw chuck and almost never use the 3 jaw chuck (I used it once).
The runout on a 3 jaw is at least a few thou or more on the better
ones. An independent adjustable 4 jaw lets you bring it in as close
as your indicator and patience allow. Jaws are reversible on these
as well. You can hold odd shaped parts and offset then somewhat as
well. A 3 jaw chuck is more limited. The 2 piece jaws allow you to
turn the top of the jaw around so you don't need 2 sets of jaws. One
clamps on the outside of the stock like a bar and the other clamps on
the inside like a tube. If you expect to deal with stock less than
1" and are going to spend as much as you say you might be better off
going to 5C collets. You should be able to get set up for that
amount, I did. Plazamachinery is a pretty good place to deal with.
JP (18468) |
| The jaws move on a
three jaw chuck by means of a scroll. This scroll prevents them from
just being removed, turned around and reinserted for griping larger
stock. Chucks either have two piece jaws, the top part of which can
be unbolted, turned around and reattached, or they have two complete
sets of jaws. If the latter, then make sure you get both sets of
jaws when purchased, you will need them both. stock but which is
which? Both sets of jaws can grip bar stock or pipe, which set you
use depends upon the size. It will be obvious when you try and grip
something. I don't have a six jaw chuck. I understand they are very
nice to have. However, they are expensive and don't do a whole lot
more than a three jaw chuck. Get the three jaw first, it's much more
of a necessity. runout on my lathe but if I get a standard 3-jaw
what kind of runout is to be expected usually? I mean maybe I'm just
being too picky with wanting an adjustable one g I have a Buck
adjust-tru chuck, and it is very nice to have. If you can afford it,
buy it. The runout on a brand new standard three jaw is usually
.001" or less. On a used one, who knows? Certainly that much and
maybe a lot more. maybe some hex as well but that shouldn't matter,
right? Right. Ed (18485) |
| Ed. I would just
like to ask again if I had to take just the outside jaws would the
3-jaw still be ok for most of my needs? I believe they are the ones
that would hold the smallest round bar stock? A s I mentioned I do
have collets but wanted the the 3-jaw for the convenience of simple
holding of stock. BTW is a buck chuck an American product that one
can buy parts for? I did a search on buck chucks and came up with
almost nothing for some reason. Tom (18486) |
| Yes, but what good
is that? Sooner or later you will tire of a chuck that only fills
most of your needs and you will want to replace it. Why not save
yourself the aggravation, time and money and just get a complete
chuck in the first place? Remember, there is a reason those
incomplete chucks are so cheap! It is now "Buck Forkardt". I don't
know if it is still an American company. I am not sure what parts
you would need to buy. Purchase a chuck in good condition and it
will last a very very long time. I purchased mine used a long time
ago and other than lubricating it, the chuck has needed nothing.
There just isn't much to go wrong. There are also other
manufacturers that make this type of chuck. Pratt Burnerd, and Bison
come to mind. I have a Bison on my Sakai lathe and I am very
impressed with it. All these chucks can be purchased used through
ebay or new through suppliers like MSC. Ed (18553) |
| Ed, I'm in the
process of getting some info from Plaza Machinery right now. I am
also leaning towards a complete chuck as you advise. Tom (18554) |
| Tom As with
everything it depends on price. If it's cheap enough get it anyway.
It's easier to change a chuck than wind jaws in and out. I find that
I'm continually reversing jaws and am considering another chuck so I
can avoid this. John(18556) |
| I just today got a
message from Joe at Plaza Machinery and in it he has even drawn me a
picture so I could understand just what the real difference is
between inside and outside jaws g went out of his way to help out a
newbie. I think he is tops in my book and will get all my future
business as it comes up that's for sure. I have almost decided on a
Buck adjust tru with either both sets of jaws or the two piece type.
He is checking his inventory to get me something I can afford and
will do a good job. Boy would I ever like to tour his place g
interested in checking out his site it's:
http://www.plazamachinery.com/index.html He has a lot of
SouthBend goodies too. Tom (18559) |
| Cushman chuck
jaws |
| I have a heavy 10,
with a four jaw Cushman. I just discovered that one jaw is thicker
than the other three.( first time I reversed them to hold a piece
inside). The three correct jaws have # A17-1 on them the incorrect
one has #53 on it. It it about 1/16th thicker and about 1/4in.
longer. Does any one stock jaws that I can buy, or can I mill it
down. (I don't know how hard it is). Jim (18520) |
| I once watched my
Father set up a chuck to about 1" open and then bring in a toolpost
grinder with a 1" stone in it right into the open jaws. When he saw
me standing there with my mouth open he asked me "haven't you ever
seen somebody true up their jaws?" This would work for you on the
inside grab if you set up a grinder to the outside and rotated the
spindle over by hand (I think) wouldn't it? Paul (18521) |
| Lathe chuck
(cam lock) |
| I'm the proud new
owner of a 13" south bend lathe. I have one question that I'm sure
you all know the answer to. I need a chuck, but I'm not sure about
what the mount is called or how to identify it. It is a cam lock
mount that has three pins approximately three and a half inches in
diameter. I've looked on ebay and only get more confused trying to
identify.
(18937) |
| Here is the link to
the spindle specs.
http://shopswarf.orcon.net.nz/chuckmt.html Hutch (18941) |
| According to the
parts manual its is a 4" cam lock. If you don't have a parts manual
you would do good to get one from LeBlond. It is CE3458 and they
used to be $41. JP (18950) |
| Heavy 10 new
vs used chuck |
| I have a 1952 Heavy
ten that is an ex navy lathe with a worn Cushman chuck. When I clamp
round stock, the inside surface of the jaws grip before the outside
"tips", and by visual inspection the shiny part of the gripping
surface widens near he outer margin. I have not disassembled the
chuck to inspect the scroll but expect that it has comparable wear.
The result of all this is that the chuck only grips stock "pretty
well" and can show 10-20 thou of runout when stock is chucked and
rechucked. I have been watching used chucks on ebay but seriously
wonder if I should just buy a new Bison chuck and be done with it. I
am an "old tool" kind of guy but worry that I could buy a used one
with some of the same issues as the one I have. Is the Bison any
good? Are there replacement parts for the Cushman that will not make
me go broke? (20597) |
Don't know what
shape the chuck is in other than the jaws but if the chuck is in
pretty good shape and the jaws fit in their grooves pretty well I
would re grind the jaws. Here is how we do this . Take the jaws out
of the chuck and grind the side face of all three jaws the part
where when closed they all mate together to a nice point. if you
have a surface grinder or a buddy does it is much easier, even a
little expense here is cheaper than a chuck. Next reinsert the jaws
into the right spot on the chuck and then take three pieces of about
half inch by one inch Starrett o1 stock bar about 2 inches long in
between the jaws next to the body of the chuck with the one inch
part between the jaws. Needed here 6 hands . Clamp down onto these
to false create a load. Now turn the center of the bars till you get
close to the jaws then set your tool post grinder to go in and
finish off the jaws and the bars till your jaws have a nice surface
on each one. NOTE: Be sure and do it on the lathe you are going to
use the chuck on not your buddy's lathe. Also have seen guys put a
ring around the jaws and clamp outward but this I think tilts the
jaws and also puts pressure the wrong way but that is my opinion. I
have taken some pretty well abused and used chucks back to very
usable by the bar method. After all what you got to loose Cushmans
are really good chucks if you can save one. Grumpy
(20599) |
| You didn't
say, but I assume it is a 3-jaw scroll chuck. My old SB 3-jaw grabs
within about 3-4 thou. I have tried to buy chucks on Ebay and have
sent (fortunately the sellers were decent folk who took them back)
EVERY one back. I finally bought a new 4-inch Bison 3-jaw and
machined the plate for it myself. It grabs consistently within 1
thou. I think you decision has to depend upon what you want to do.
If you need precision, then go buy a new Bison (everybody tells me
they are good chucks) and machine your own plate - they are more
precise that way. You might find a good one on Ebay and certainly
reputable dealers will sell good chuck but you won't save that much.
Why get PO'd ever time you use it? Frank (20600) |
| I recently bought a
Bison 3 jaw chuck and the quality is not too bad, definitely better
than Chinese or god forbid, Indian chucks. Bison's aren't made and
finished as nice as the old American chucks were, but neither are
the new American chucks. I'm pretty picky and hate junking tooling,
and I'd buy another Bison if I need another chuck in the future.
They have a pretty good selection of sizes and backplate adapters. I
got mine from
www.brassandtool.com , a small outfit run by a nice guy who
really cares about getting you set up right. He can get sizes and
adapters that aren't listed on his website. He matched the better
price I got from www.use-enco.com
Paul T. (20601) |
| I have used the
Bison chucks (good Chuck for the money) for years on other lathes, I
have not had the money of late to buy me a new chuck for my 9" but I
will soon. The big advantage the Bison has over the original
Cushmans and such is the 2 piece Jaws, it eliminates the need for
collets altogether for some jobs as you can use soft jaws in place
of the standard jaws and bore or machine them to hold all kinds of
oddball shapes and sizes and they will do it just as good as a
collet, if bored good they can hold parts within a .0002 easily. You
can even machine them to hold square or triangular parts if needed.
I would never consider buying a used Cushman or such over a new
Bison, just my opinion based on 23 years as Toolmaker. (20612) |
| Chuck mounting
problem |
| I have two chucks; a 5 inch 3jaw scroll chuck, and a 6 inch
with 4 independent jaws. The small one I can screw on easily. It is
a little over 3 turns and it is seated properly. The big one on the
other hand I can screw on a little over 2 turns (2 and 1/8), and
then it is starting to bind. I can force it half a turn more. I have
tried cleaning up the threads, and I cant see anything wrong with
the treads. Should I force it on? Any suggestions? Torfinn (20980) |
RULE NUMBER 1:
NEVER FORCE ANYTHING! first off, have you checked the thread depth
in chuck number 2? Make sure that you are not running out of
threads. Did you make a thread cleaning tool? Bent heavy wire with
point ends that look like __ | | | | to scrape out the points of the
threads. You would be surprised how small a chip it takes to bind
things up. Should be a pic or drawing in the files area. Next, do
you have a thread standard? its a really good project is to make a
copy of you spindle nose: threads, register, shoulder. Make it about
6" long. That way you have a master to use to check when threading
faceplates and the like. you use all the lathe fundamentals making
it. Dimensions of spindle in the files section and in the HTRAL
book. dennis
(20981) |
| I had the same
problem with a four jaw chuck off an Atlas that I wanted to use on
my SB. The threads were right but the inside shoulder was to small
to allow the chuck to seat on the spindle. I solved the problem by
chucking a 3/4 inch rod in the three jaw and mounting the four jaw
backwards and removing a small amount of the inside shoulder and it
worked fine. (20988) |
| Used parts can get
internal threads boogered by careless use or hygiene, or it could
have a poorly cut thread. 1. Clean the internal and external threads
meticulously, with brush and a cleaner to get all the way to the
root, wash off all oils and residues with an appropriate solvent and
dry it off. examine the threads to see if they are all properly
formed and undamaged in the tip and root areas 2. Then completely
black the external threads and flange with a magic marker or such
that leaves a very dark mark 3 Screw it on until you get firm
resistance 4. Take it off and see where the interference has wiped
away the blacking. if the threads are the problem - you can tell
what area is interfering - tip, flank, root will all tell you if the
thread is mating OK. if the flange is interfering, you can
handscrape, lap, or turn it. if the thread pitch is the problem,
then you will need to re- thread (turn and/or chase the thread with
an internal thread tool) the part to the proper thread pitch ,or get
a new backplate with correct threads and re-mate the chuck unit to
it see if anybody on the list lives close enough to you for them to
try the offending part on their machine, this will tell you very
quickly if the part is mismarked or poorly threaded, or if it is
just dirty or has a distorted thread pitch. (21010) |
| Honing Chuck
Jaws |
| Anyone had any luck
honing the lathe chuck jaws while the chuck is mounted on the lathe.
I have a three jaw that is soooo bad. The runnout is in the range of
.008 +/-. I would like to get this down to .001 or less. JJ (21015) |
| Need to do it on
mine also. You must "load" the jaws in the tightened condition. Get
some soft ground flat stock. Cut it into pieces. Insert them between
the jaws so the flat parts bare on them. let them stick into the
open part a bit. Turn them to match the open diameter of the chuck,
just stopping before you hit the jaws which may be very hard.
Carbide is good here. Most use some type of tool post grinder. You
should be able to jury-rig either an air die grinder or a Dremmel
tool. Having a QC tool holder is a plus. Allows vertical adjustment
of the grinder. I understand this will only true the chuck at the
chosen diameter. There are several threads on this in the archives.
I have been avoiding this for some time. Jim B. (21017) |
| Try to borrow a
toolpost grinder and grind the jaws true. Boris (21025) |
| See
http://www.homemetalshopclub.org/news/aug04/aug04.html#truing
Gene (21033) |
| Is the runout at
one specific diameter or across a range of diameters. are you SURE
the spindle is clean and the threads in the backing plate are good?
BEFORE you do anything irreversible like removing metal from the
chuck jaws- 1. make sure that the jaws are installed in the correct
order. Most jaws are stamped 1, 2, 3. still can't tell, make
reference marks on each, remove them and look at the lead on the
scroll threading. study them closely to understand what I am talking
about. clean the scroll well. Remove any chips etc. oil and install
jaws in order. 2. truing jaws at one diameter to reduce runnout will
cause runout at a different diameter. this is a well known
trade-off. I would not try and try to perfect a 3-jaw. if you are
trying for precision, that is what independent jaws are for. Expect,
live with and work around a few thou runout. (21038) |
| What would you say
about the following procedure? I read an article somewhere years ago
about a process that used a brass bar held between centers and
non-rotating. (The chuck being mounted after a dead center is
inserted in the spindle) The jaws lightly tightened to start and
turn on the lathe. Start a small stream of olive oil and pumice
where the jaws and brass bar meat. Gradually tighten the jaws every
few minuets. JJ (21042) |
| JJ, If the jaw tips
are not worn, but only the runout is a bother I would use another
method I use regardless of condition. Even new chucks. Any chuck
will wear the scroll unevenly over time and instead of grinding down
perfectly good jaws make the chuck adjustable almost like an
adjust-true type. All this requires is tacking off the backplate
(assuming this is a backplate mounted chuck) and machining the
register on the backplate undersize about 15 thou or what ever will
allow the greatest error to be offset. Reassemble and snug down the
screws tight then loosen until just beginning to feel slack (still
snug). With stock mounted in the chuck of the required diameter of
interest, an indicator mounted and testing the stock surface, tap
the chuck body where needed to bring it to dead on runout. Tighten
screws. The only diff between this and an adjust true is the second
offsetting screws are missing. What you miss is having to fight
those screws trying to get it right. Tapping into position is very
quick and the chuck will not slip or fly off and hit you. RichD
(21044) |
| Should I bush
this Chuck? |
| I have a 6" 3 jaw
Pratt which has a large nose thread (something like 2" x 10 tpi)
'built in'. I'd like to be able to use it on my 9BW and my Boxford,
so I'd like it to have 'our' nose thread instead (1 1/2" x 8 tpi).
The backplate is not a straightforward exchange however , as this
chuck USES its backplate to mount the pinions (the pinions are half
in the chuck body, half in the 'backplate', and the pinion tips run
in bores in the 'backplate' - its more like a diff centre than a
backplate but it makes the chuck slimmer . The most straightforward
solution I see is to bush the nose thread and thread cut 'ours'
inside. Has anyone done this before? Has anyone got experience/ideas
related to such a move? My main concerns are that I don't do it
right, or concentrically, so that the chuck either comes adrift at
speed or runs off-centre :-( Also, the chuck weighs in at 7 kg
(around 14 lbs in old money). Does anyone know what is a maximum
recommended load for the front bearing on the 9BW (shipped 28 Feb
1941, so not bushed I think) Tim (22164) |
| The approach I
would take would be to machine an adapter by chucking a piece or
round stock, squaring up the face. bore the I.D. and cut an 1 1/2- 8
internal thread. This should be a running fit on your spindle and
there should be a thread relief that allows the squared up face to
bottom out on the spindle face before the thread bottoms out. Then,
with the adapter mounted on the spindle (to insure concentricity)
turn the O.D. to the major dia. of the 2" - 10 thread, leaving a
shoulder at the left hand end for the Pratt chuck to bottom out on,
turn a relief and then turn the 2"-10 male thread to accept the
Pratt chuck. After insuring that everything is satisfactory, you may
want to do something to keep the adapter from backing out of the
chuck( cyano-acrylate adhesive, deforming a thread or two,
staking,....) or drill a radial hole in the adapter shoulder that
mates the spindle, so you can use a 'tommy bar' to remove it from
the spindle. That's just one approach. Mario (22168) |
| A nice T slotted
faceplate came with my 13" SB, but it has no thread in the bore and
is way oversize for the spindle. I'd been contemplating a similar
job to turn it into a usable faceplate, but the only stock I have
that is big enough is brass. Would this be OK in the list's opinion?
Len (22170) |
| Brass would
work, but it will wear rather quickly, so, if you use it very much,
it's probably not the best choice. I'd save that nice piece of brass
for a project where you'll see it and go buy a chunk of mild steel.
Mario (22176) |
| Wayne, it would
have to be bored out and threaded for this (I guess there is enough
material around the hole to do that, but it sounds almost as much
time as I will have to use to bush the sucker). Also, two lots of
transatlantic shipping - one your way, one mine - sounds heart
screwingly steep :o( I find myself sort of rising to the 'Bush
Challenge' now that I've been able to talk it over with you guys.
Got any data though, on max recommended front bearing loads for the
B9W ? That old 3 jaw son-of-a-gun comes in at a pretty hefty 14 lbs
(not quite as massive as me girlfriend's Mum, but heading that
direction ) Tim (22187) |
| Set tru chuck
questions |
| I have purchased a
second SB 10" lathe. This time a Tool Room model with Everything
except a 3-jaw chuck. My existing heavy 10 didn't come with a
3-jaw either. So you could imagine that I am going to need one. But
as I went to order one I noticed the price difference between a Set
Through and a regular scroll chuck. What makes the set through chuck
so much more expensive? Also should I purchase a direct mount chuck
(2.25x8tpi) or a plain back and a backplate for 2.25x8tpi to finish
myself? If you can recommend a brand that is good without breaking
the bank (Buck Brand). As of now I am looking at a Bison. (22301) |
| A set tru is
more accurate because you can move it around a little to a perfect
zero. I have a direct mount 6" Bison it is a good chuck. I also have
a handful of cheap ebay chucks both 3 4 jaws 4" 6" for my junk work.
I get the threaded backs and fit them myself to the chuck. Bob
(22302) |
| You might want to
look for a used Skinner chuck. This was the original model. You may
find one in better operating condition than the 'new' Asian made
chucks. JP (22303) |
| I have a Czech "Tos"
chuck that is of excellent workmanship and specs. When I got my 13"
I kept it back from the 9" that I'd originally used it on, and
turned an older backplate down to fit. Relatively cheap too. Len
(22304) |
| Reversible
jaws, anyone? |
| I have seen pix of
3-jaws with Allen bolts threaded down at each end of each jaw, and I
am guessing the jaws have a separable lift-off top section which can
be unbolted and swivelled 180 deg for outside workholding . Would I
be correct ? Does anyone have jaws like these ? Do they fail easy ?
Has anyone sliced up their solid jaws to make such devices ? How did
they do it ? Can you slice thru hardened jaws without losing
shedloads of jaw height ? Has anyone MADE their own jaws ? How did
they do the grinding ? I have a couple of chucks where the outside
jaws went walkabout decades ago (and I guess other folk do too) .
What options do I have as to replacement outside jaws? Tim (22307) |
| The 2 piece jaws I
have seen have different inside jaws and outside jaws. They were not
reversible. The jaws have to match each other rather closely, not
something I would care to attempt. It would appear more cost
effective to purchase them rather than screw up a perfectly good
chuck. JP (22308) |
| Take the jaws out
and turn them around and put them back in. Yes the ones with the
Allen bolts through them are reversible by take the bolts out. Yes I
have one and it has taken everything I have thrown at it. Duane
(22310) |
| We have several two
piece jawed chucks at work. They are OK on the larger chucks (12"
and up) but are cumbersome on the smaller ones. On our 10K with a
Bison 5 inch, the jaws extend out so far from the chuck face and are
so wide that they are difficult to use in some situations. I much
prefer the reversible jawed chucks ( 2 sets, 1 inside,1 outside) for
the smaller lathes. As far as service from the 2 piece, they hold up
with the best. Jim (22311) |
| My 9" came with a
few chucks. One is a 6" Cushman 3 jaw scroll chuck. It has 3 sets of
reversible jaws. they are different heights. (depths?) All will fit
as either inside or outside. However they are numbered to correspond
to their particular seat. No complaint yet, but I'm really new.
Anyone have experience with this brand? Mike (22312) |
| The most common
variety of two piece jaw chucks are soft jaw types where you turn
the recess in the jaw to suit the work. Usually the base jaw is
captive in the chuck with a serrated face. The new jaws come as
either rectangular or rectangular with one pointed end lumps of
steel with serrations in the bottom to match the chuck jaws and
deeply counter-sunk clearance holes, or sometimes slots, for the
bolts. To use simply bolt the jaw blanks on, the serrations ensure
positive alignment, many sets allow you to assemble in more than one
position, turn recess to match the work shape, insert work and away
you go. The jaws are fairly soft so have to be periodically
replaced. very popular with smaller batch machining workshops.
basically make the jaws, do the batch of jobs and either modify the
jaws for the next job or keep for the next batch. Best practice was
always to reshape the jaws, even if its only a skim cut, each time
ensuring concentricity and good work holding. These chucks are
always cheap and good value provided you can still get the jaw
blanks. There are about a zillion varieties. A right bear to get
apart to clean up tho'. (22319) |
| Clive, does anyone
that you know of make the 'base jaws' (would probably need to be 'to
order' in my case - most of my chucks seem to be older than
'recent') . I wouldn't even know how to begin machining a slice of
scroll tooth :o( I have been playing around with my 3-jaws a lot the
last couple of days . I found a fairly reliable method for stripping
one and posted to the Boxford Group, here :-
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoxfordLathe-UserGroup/message/1133
Might be of some assistance if yours get a bit grubby inside :o) Tim
(22321) |
| Tim In the UK first
port of call for unusual chuck jaws is Rotagrip at Hockley,
Birmingham, 01845 100 1566 (no web site so you gotta use the dog 'n
bone). Their catalogue tells you how to measure jaws scroll teeth to
to find out if a fit is possible. My toolmaker pal tell me that you
can do one off sets of scroll teeth by simple spiral milling
followed by individually reshaping the edge radii so the jaws will
run-up and down the scroll. Yeah right! Not a word about how you
calculate the radii modification tho'. And you have to harden it
too. I think if I had to I could figure out how to do it on a CNC
vertical mill (but I'll never be that desperate) but how the job
was/is normally done I've not a clue. Most of these serrated base
jaw / replaceable top jaw type chucks seem to be made with the front
and sides as a single drum shape. The body slips in. Very often the
jaw slots are closed ended so the jaws don't come out so it is very
difficult to see how it all goes together. (22337) |
| Clive,
I'm not far from Brum so I'll try them, thanks for their number. About
the scroll teeth , I'm thinking 'wooo - simple spiral milling don't
sound none too simple to me. I need a book . And CNC millers would seem
to have a mind of their own where I'm concerned, plus I don't have one
to hand. There must be a way of doing it in the lathe to get close to
the 'old boys' way of doing them. Anyone enlighten us? Trade secret,
like how to assemble a Rubik's cube or how to squeeze that last ball
into a roller bearing (I'm intrigued now) Tim (22338) |
| Chuck thread
problem |
| I have a 5" three
jaw chuck that I can't get to thread on all the way. I did find that
there was some dirt and rust in the threads. I did clean the threads
out with a piece a of brazing rod. The threads look fine, but it
looks like I'm still coming up short about one thread. Is there
anything else I could do or try to save this chuck? (22680) |
| Had the same
problem. Metal chips get into the threads and the chuck gets rammed
on and the chips get swaged into the threads and discolored by oil
so you can't see it. Stops the chuck from seating on the collar
every time. I used an internal thread restoring file from McMasters
p/n 2616A16 It takes a little time and effort but you can clean out
the threads with it. Work the threads at the inside of the mounting
plate harder to take out the taper from the crud that got swaged
into the threads. JP (22695) |
| Import chuck
no good? |
| I bought a cheap 6"
4-jaw from wholesale tool. I mounted it to a backplate and
everything seemed good. I had less than .001 runout on both the
backplate and chuck. Now, when I chuck up a piece of drill rod, I
can't indicate it near the chuck and at the far end. It just seems
to wobble around like the jaws aren't holding it parallel to the
ways. If I take that same piece of drill-rod and put it in the
3-jaw, it may not run true, but it indicates the same at either end.
Should I figure out a way to grind the jaws on this thing? Kevin
(23192) |
| Kevin: Are you
using a piece of copper between the drill rod and the jaws? Many
people are unfamiliar with the correct way to set a job up in a four
jaw. I will attempt to give a step by step rundown of how you do
this. 1-- Set chuck jaws equally ( assuming this is a round piece to
work on and not an irregular shaped piece) at approximately the
correct diameter. (23194) |
| Ron- Wow. That was
amazing. I went out to set it up like you said and it worked really
well. I'm a little unsure about a few things, though. If you
remember, my headstock didn't align. I took JP's suggestion and used
a spindle adapter and Morse taper extension to indicate across the
top and side. After shimming, I got it to under .001 each way across
the length of the extension (about 4.5"). Now, in the 4 jaw, I got
everything to line up and I can get the runout at both the chuck end
and the far end (drill rod - about 7" in length sticking out of the
chuck) to under .001. But, when I indicate across the length (and
this goes for the top or the side), there is a drop of about .005.
So now I'm not sure that my headstock is aligned? What do you think?Kevin (23196) |
| Kevin: This is most
likely indicative of wear on the ways of the lathe. Are you still
within .001 in that first 4.5" as you had with the spindle adapter
and Morse Sleeve? Worn ways will not only show a rise in indicator
readings measured along the top of the workpiece but will also show
erratic readings along its side as the saddle will begin to move in
and out. Can you feel or measure any play on the saddle pushing it
towards the back of the machine and pulling it towards the front of
the machine? Unfortunately South Bends do not feature a gib on the
apron ( which of course is bolted to the saddle) to pull the saddle
down (which will eliminate saddle movement in or out also) as is
found on some of the more precision made lathes. Ron (23197) |
| Ron- The bed should
be pretty straight - It was just ground. I just measured the Morse
taper extension and it is not a consistent width. It looks like it
Tapers about .010 over the length. Duh. I chucked up a piece of
drill rod and used your procedure to align it. I can get it to under
.001 at the chuck, under .001 at the tail, and it appears to be
within .001 over 6" or so - still cuts a taper. Approximately .002
over 6". I've been messing with it all day. Originally, I was using
a dial indicator (accuracy to .001). I started using the indicator
with the little arm that is supposed to be .0005. With this gauge on
the toolpost and indicated on the drill rod 6" out, I can see
movement as much as .001 if I do something like pull on the chuck,
push down on the front or back of the saddle, etc. Does that seem
right? I only have 6" stuck out of the chuck because my tailstock
isn't aligned yet. I was waiting to do that once I had the headstock
looking good. I have tried with both steel and aluminum and I'm
getting the same results. frazzled, Kevin (23208) |
| Kevin: You
neglected to say what diameter drill rod was but unless it is
something of a very large diameter it will deflect from the pressure
of a cut. Also .0005 deflection when pushing on chuck or leaning on
saddle is to be expected as after all there are these types of
clearances all over the machine (23210) |
| Ron- It was a .75
piece of drill rod. I guess I will get the tailstock aligned and see
what happens. Kevin (23211) |
| Did you insure that
there is no "Twist" in the bed from mounting it on the
table/stand/support? This is called "leveling" but its really making
sure the bed is not twisted. Jim B. (23212) |
| Buck Chuck |
| I was given a very
nice Buck 4" flat back chuck, It is in beautiful shape and would be
just great for smaller projects. The problem is my lathe is a D1 4,
does anybody know of any adaptors out there that would work for me?
Dee (24184) |
| What size lathe do
you have? A co-worker had a similar problem with threads and
resolved it by chucking the smaller chuck in a larger one. Rick
(24185) |
| It is a 13x40 South
Bend with D1-4 Chuck. Dee (24186) |
| Don't know about an
adapter but could you come up with something using this 6" D1-4
backing plate from Harbor Freight? Out 16" SBL has a D1-4 and I've
been meaning to get the 8" version that they also have. Arne(24187) |
| Arne, That may be a
possibility? I had not seen those. Dee
(24188) |
| Send me a picture
of you lathe, I just bought a 14" with the d1-4 cam lock. HF sells
backing plates. I have a Buck 6 jaw adjust through on my heavy 10. I
would love to run on my 14" but one has treads the other D 4 mount.
I have a 3 and 4 jaw on the 14" that are nice both some German made
chucks but he 6 jaw buck is a sweet chuck. I am looking to do
collets on the 14" but need the whole set up. (24204) |
| If you are
fitted out for collets and taper turning you could make a collet
shank size adapter and fit it using the collet stuff. You'd need to
make a back plate too but that's not too hard in these small sizes.
The nominal 4" diameter 5C fitting 3 jaw I got as an accessory for
my spin indexer works great in my Heavy 10. I frequently use it for
small work when the 8" Pratt-Burnerd precision is too cumbersome but
collets are too small. Gonna make a similar fitting for a "rescued"
5" four jaw too once I've made a replacement for a lost jaw and
fixed one of the adjuster screws. I wonder if anyone makes 5C blank
end arbors? 5C fitting chucks are great for transfer work between
lathe and mill if you have a spin indexer and lever type
horizontal/vertical 5C mount. Clive (24213) |
| 4 jaw Chuck
binding problem |
| I have a SB 4 jaw
chuck No. 4006-60 made by Skinner and three of the jaws are binding.
I have removed the jaws and back to clean it and lubed it well with
spindle oil. On reassembly three of the jaws were binding at the
same spot. When running the jaws in, binding starts when the jaws
are protruding about 3/4" from the chuck then free up when they are
about flush. Inspection of the jaws while binding shows that the
screw is tight against the jaw. I put the key in a drill to move the
jaw in and out and stopped when I saw some newly created filings or
shavings. nterchanging jaws does not change anything. The problem
does not move with the change in jaws. Do I just live with it? Bob
(35142) |
The issue in my
mind is the one that moves correctly. I would make certain that I
had the jaws marked j1-j4, scrolls marked s1-s4 and chuck slots
marked c1-c4. Elimination should allow you to determine if the
problem is with the j's, the s's or the c's. This will also allow
you to tell if the "correct " one is actually too loose --the j
being too small , the s being too loose or the c being overly wide.
I assume you checked each of the jaws for the same code numbers,
assuming
they are marked. (35143) |
| Thanks for your
reply. I have just rechecked and have learned the following. There
are no numbers on the jaws or the chuck. The one “good” slot in the
chuck does have a very minor binding similar to the rest but only
slightly noticeable. All jaws feel the same in any slot. All are
free in the good slot and bind in the other slots. All bind the same
in a bad slot. Bob (35145) |
| Measure the width
of the single "good" slot and compare it to the 3 "bad" ones.
Measure the slots of the "bad" jaws and compare them to the "good"
one. Take the good scroll and try it on the bad slots. If the slots
are still bad the scrolls are all good and the problem is with the
jaws and/or the slots in the chuck. Run the chuck with no jaws or
slot or anything and see if it is warped (remote). Use some emery
cloth on the slots of the chuck. (35146) |
| How do you remove
the scrolls? It looks like you tap out the keepers that hold them in
place but I have been hesitant to try this. (35147) |
| Bob, the chuck
slots are probably warped. I assume you are not the original owner
of this chuck. It is possible to warp the slots by either: A)
Over-tightening the jaws, or B) Jamming a work piece so that it
twists out of the jaws. Both can warp the jaw slot at the location
where the overload occurred, hence the fact that all slots have a
bad spot of varying severity and that the bad spots are all at the
same location. Try running a small straightedge into the slots and
across the face of the chuck to verify. It it's warped you can try
to file and sand it to remove the binding. If it's an independent
4-jaw, that's not too bad but you'll have to be careful about
assuming that a workpiece is aligned parallel to the lathe's axis
when the end of the workpiece is resting on a jaws' steps. Ed
(35157) |
| Thanks Ed, I’ll
check for warp and the symptoms are dead on. I didn’t realize that
the chuck could be warped. It looks like it has had very little use
but probably some misuse. Bob (35160) |
