Logo

Lathe - Collets - General

 
 

 

 
 
Correct Collet size (Feb 9, 2001) Collet sizes (Aug 1, 2003)
Collets for 9" Southbend (Feb 25, 2001) Is this a 3AT Collet?  (Sep 2, 2003)
3at collet set (Oct 14, 2001) 9" collet question (Nov 17, 2003)
Collets (Oct 17, 2001) 6K Collets purchase (Dec 20, 2003)
Collet Identification (Nov 11, 2001) Collets (Jan 17, 2004)
South Bend 10K Collets? (Mar 25, 2002) MT 3 collets disadvantages? (Jan 28, 2004)
6k collets (Jul 23, 2002) Collet stops (Jan 31, 2004)
Collets with LOO spindle (Sep 2, 2002) Collet Question (Feb 11, 2004)
6K collet stop (Sep 30, 2002) 4c Collet dimensions? (Mar 9, 2004)
5C and 3C collets (Oct 14, 2002) Collets for a 9" (Apr 9, 2004)
SB Collet help needed (Oct 26, 2002) Collet suggestions needed (Apr 22, 2004)
MT3 collets (Dec 14, 2002) Old collets (Jun 20, 2004)
Cherry wood collet rack (Feb 15, 2003) Collets for 9" Junior New from late 1920's (Jul 22, 2004)
Morse taper collets from Grizzly (May 1, 2003) Collet question? (Aug 7, 2004)
Collet Chucks (May 7, 2003) Collet sizes? (Aug 17, 2004)
Collet sizes (May 21, 2003) Collet adapter key (Aug 28, 2004)
6k collet (Jun 6, 2003) 6k collets (Nov 6, 2004)
R8 Collets #3MT Adapter (Jun 16, 2003) Southbend Lathe Collet Attachment (Dec 12, 2004)
Collet adapter removal (Jul 9, 2003) C4 Collets (Jan 28, 2005)
Are all collets created equal? (Jul 16, 2003) Need a Collet? Buy? Make? (Mar 4, 2005)
SB Collets (Jul 22, 2003) ER40 collet chuck (Mar 15, 2005)
   
 
Correct Collet size
I recently purchased a South Bend 10K lathe. It came with a set of #3 collets which fit fine. I understand that the 10k lathe is supposed to use 6K collets. Does anyone know the difference? Would I benefit by selling the #3 collets and buying a set of 6K collets? Frank (199)
The 9 inch South Bend Lathe uses 3C collets along with an adapter in the spindle. The 10K lathe has a modified version of the 9 inch lathe spindle that allows it to use 6K collets without an adapter in the spindle. The difference is that the 3C collets are limited to a maximum size of 1/2" (9/16" is available from some makers). The 6K has a maximum size of 5/8". Also, the draw tubes are different between 3C and 6K. Because both the 9" and the 10K have Morse Taper No. 3 spindles, both can use the 3C collets with the spindle adapter. 3C collets are more readily available and generally cheaper than 6K collets. Webb (200)
Collets for 9" Southbend
Does anyone know which size collets work with a 9" SB? (267)
3c is the best fit, but they're expensive. 5c is too big for a drawbar, but I have seen some collet chucks that would work. R8 milling collets could be made to work, but you would be limited to 3/4" or so depth in the collet. Frank (280)
I have a 10K which takes 6K collets. I have always thought the 9 took 4C collets but I have recently seen some postings  (elsewhere) that 9 takes 3C collets so now I am not positive. Dean (297)
SB 9" takes 3C collets which go up to 1/2" 10K takes 6K collets which go up to 5/8" I never heard of 4C being used in SB 9.(298)
3at collet set
Will the 3at collet set on e-bay #1649865685 fit the 9" model a south bend lathe? (1834)
They will if you have a 3at adapter for the nose of the lathe. Yasmiin (1835)
I looked at the eBay listing, the adapter is part of what's being offered. The only questions would appear to whether the adapter is correct for the 9" SB lathe (doesn't *say* 3MT) and whether the drawbar is the correct length (I don't know what the variations are in spindle length for SB, Logan, Atlas, etc.) Anthony (1855)
Assume at minimum that you will need to make a new drawbar at the appropriate length. It isn't too hard though - you will need to find an appropriate piece of tubing and cut some inside threads. These collets go for about $30 each new. I'd value the set mainly for the collets, but consider it a plus if the adapter happens to fit. Chris (1857)
I think the dealers get about $15 for used collets, at least the 6K's. I don't know for sure what an adapter would go for, I would guess at least $35. The draw bar can range a bit. I just bought one for $35 on e-bay. I think they have gone for $75 on up. Anyways, as stated before, if the collets are worth the price then rest should be viewed as freebies. (1858)
If its any help I have a 3AT adapter that is MT 3. I would think that that would be the standard for those collets as it wouldn't work if it were smaller and if it were bigger they probably would have used a larger collet. Also if the draw bar is too long then you can machine a bushing / spacer that would slip over the shaft and take up the slack. If its too short you can always extend the shaft near the hand wheel. It would reduce the inside bore there but I usually don't machine bar before I cut it to length. Yasmiin (1861)
Collets
I found MT3 collets from 3/16 to 1/2 in the Smithy catalog (was looking at a smithy before I got my SB), If I'm thinking right wouldn't these fit into the headstock spindle, you'd just have to make a drawbar to fit (7/16 is what it says for a drawbar). M.L. (1900)
This is certainly a way one can go, however this is a milling-machine type collet in the sense that the drawbar is solid and goes inside the collet, rather than outside of it. As a result, you won't be able to put workpiece through the headstock. But if you simply want to hold things that are already cut to length, it could be a good route. Also Morse tapers have a lower angle than 3c/5c and are thus not considered "self releasing" - it may take a substantial mallet whack on the drawbar to get them to let go, whereas I can usually get the 5c to release by simply slapping the handwheel with my hand. Speaking of collets, can anyone explain the difference between the nice old Jacobs 'rubberflex' collets which are now rare and the similar-appearing ones that are all over the catalogs which say they are for tapping heads only? It gets tempting to order one and try to make a closer. Either that or ER-32... Part of me wants to simply make an all-new 5C headstock for the SB9. Chris (1904)
Matt, I did that on my Logan 920 except they were MT 2. I made the draw bar from 3/8 threaded rod. The down side besides the max diameter of the stock you can handle is limited and you can't feed the stock through the head stock. Chris (1910)
My headstock is 3MT, www.littlemachineshop.com has collets whose external taper is 3MT, is this then a bad idea because slippage will damage my headstock taper rather than damaging an intermediate sleeve? Heck, why don't I just grab some barstock and make my own collets and adapter? (1963)
You can make your own if you want, however there are a couple of things to be aware of. Factory MT collets have a small solid drawbar - i.e., a long bolt. This means you can't put workpieces through the headstock. If you make your own, you can put OD threads on the collet and use a piece of tubing for a drawbar, obtaining probably a 1/2" through capacity. MT tapers do not release as easily as 3c/5c/etc due to the smaller angle. It may take a SUBSTANTIAL whack to get them to let go. If you do make your own collets, I suggest that you do not harden them. In the hardened condition, any burs or imperfections can tear up the spindle taper if they spin. In the annealed state (or making them out of brass) you are much less likely to damage anything. What I want to do is make a spindle nose chuck for ER-32 collets, or 'simply' replace the whole headstock with something that is natively 5C. Chris (1967)
I need to try to make a collet. The design is like a 5C with external threads but much smaller. An R8 is only slightly larger in outside diameter (I thought I might be able to turn down and externally thread an R8, would also need to slightly flatten the nose taper. However after reading the specs in the McMaster catalog I feel they are probably too hard steel to turn. The collet I need is for a Black Diamond 31 drill grinder, is the large collet that holds the larger bushings and the 3/4" bit for sharpening. BD wants $120 some-odd for the one collet so I'd like to try to turn one myself. All it does is hold the bit in place for sharpening it, no high torque as in milling, drilling, etc. I'd appreciate any suggestions as to material to use, how to cut the 3 thin slots on the face that allow it to tighten, etc. BTW my eq is all manual, even though the CAD CAM group is included in the list. Lew (2090)
Try 6150 tool steel hardened to around Rc 54 to 58. Cut the slots with a 1/32 slotting cutter but leave a little web at the end of the collet. This prevents the "flanges" distorting during H.T. Also polish very good while soft any surface that will come in contact with the holder or drill. We have manufactured collets in our shop in the past but we ground all the contacting surfaces- external, internal, and angle. However, for your application this should suffice. Ed (2094)
Have you tried identifying the collet in the Hardinge catalog. They make EVERY conceivable collet known to man and ancients. their catalog has good dimensioned drawings. I think most of their stuff is online in the Hardinge workholding site. http://hardinge.com  The collet I need is for a Black Diamond 31 drill grinder, is the large collet that holds the larger bushings and the 3/4" bit for sharpening. BD wants $120 some-odd for the one collet so I'd like to try to turn one myself. (2095)
You want to download Hardinge Spindle Tooling for Manual and CNC Lathes document id number 2348B. At the back of that catalog, page 57, they have a manufacturer's cross reference and then the pages after that list the dimensions of the different collet series. 3C, 3AT and 4C are all there. once you get the part number, search their site. (2106)
Got the whole Hardinge catalog downloaded, found the 3C and 3AT collets. Got all the info I need to make a drawbar. My question is, for the adapter, should it be 3MT-to-3C or 1 1/2x8-to-3C? (2116)
3MT to 3C. The internal taper of the spindle is precision ground, the external thread is not. I have some diagrams that may help. See: http://www.lathe.com/part_sht/collet/3at-draw-collet.gif  http://www.lathe.com/images/5-c.gif  Scott Logan(2117)
To see collet dimensions, go to: http://www.hardingeworkholding.com/PDF/2348B.PDF That's a 2.4meg download, which is a great reference manual. Keep a copy on your hard disk for your next collet question. It lists hundreds of collets, their users, and dimensions. For the 3AT, it lists back bearing dimension as .687", length as 2.313", and thread as 0.637"x26TPI RH. For the 3C, it lists back bearing dimension as .650", length as 2.688", and thread as 0.640"x26TPI RH. Both are good to 1/2" maximum for round stock. If you need used ones at a fair price, try Sobel Machinery in NJ. I just bought a few from them and they were quite reasonable. Bob (2118)
It appears to be a 4c. couldn't find it at Hardinge online catalog, plan to call them today after I get good measurements when I go to the shop. I have Xerox copies (from Hardinge) of many of the Hardinge collets. The 4C dimensions are: Nose diameter 1-5/32"; Parallel diameter .949"; Drawbar thread 15/16" x 20 NS RH; Overall length 3"; Length of taper 9/16"; Length of thread 5/8". Tell me if the above positively identifies the collet for you. If not, please cite the dimensions of the same elements for your collet, I'll try to compare it with the information I have. Anthony (2121)
Collet Identification
With all this info about collets that has erupted lately I still can't find out what type collet system I have. It is not listed in any of the references that have been given here. It came with my SB 9" model A built in 1946. Here is a picture of the holder and collet these are in the Files section under SB A C. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/files/SB%20A%20%26%20C/Collet%20Closer%20and%20Collets.jpg  If anybody know what these are I would appreciate knowing. The collets are approx. 1" in diameter and about 1.25" long. Randy  (2122)
They appear to be what's called acorn collets. I can't recall who the mfrs. were but saw them at a few machine shop I worked at over the years. Dwight (2124)
South Bend 10K Collets?
Please tell me what the proper size of collets are used with the 10K model. (3749)
The 10 K uses the 6K collets. You can us 3C with the same collet adapter sleeve as the 9 inch. Tom (3753)
I purchased a 10K Lathe and would like to know what collets fit it, please. (3758)
6k collets
I have been looking for 6k collets for my 10k lathe, and am wondering, if I find the collets but no draw bar, how difficult is it to locate a drawbar? I the drawbar for the 6k collets unique to them, or will another draw bar work? Anyone have some 6k collets for sale? Scott (5307)
I have and use the 10K SBL P/N CL4306K Handwheel Collet Attachment and the 6K collets which I bought new. You can still buy the 6K notched collets new from Hardinge Tooling but you'll choke at the price and you'll still have to get the draw bar. I rarely find the 6K series notched collets in used condition but the much more common 3C collets and SBL P/N CL4306N Handwheel Collet Attachment (draw bar) for the 9" SBL are much more common or can be made. Do a search of this forum. The 3C Collet has a maximum capacity of 1/2" and the 6K has a maximum capacity of 5/8" which doesn't justify the greater cost to gain 1/8". Jim (5308)
I dunno, anything smaller than 5c is a frustration. Been seriously eying one of my Hardinge with an idea to grafting an H-head onto the 10 k, smooth acting lever collet closer and all. The sheer perversity and potential to outrage large groups of civilized people in several camps adds to the appeal... I do think the extra 1/8" of 6K over 3c is useful, such as it is. It does astonish me that people with lathes get concerned about simple threaded tubes like a handwheel collet closer as a sticking issue in whether to proceed with other "desirable" features. I can understand the interest in pristine, all OEM units as a collector proposition. As a practical matter, how hard is it to make a draw tube, when lathe work is the hobby? Stephen (5309)
Scott, Even if you bought the collets and couldn't find a draw bar it would be pretty simple to make one.... a piece of half inch round stock threaded appropriately at one end and a knob and a bearing surface at the other. If you take a close look at one I think you'll agree. Mario (5311)
Scott, I got the felt material, thanks. 6K collets come up on E-bay from time to time. There are some metric collets item number 1751930588. You could try the parts dealers. I think Plaza Machinery sells 6K collets for $15-20 used. He also sells a threaded end to be soldiered on the end of a tube that threaded for 6K collets. I think its $35 though. I also see some sell drawbar kits on E-bay from time to time. But I think you could buy some material and a hand wheel, just as well. I'll check my 6K collets, but I think I only have one duplicate in a millimeter collet. 6K collets do come in Hexes and squares. I haven't seen any clutch collets for them, but they are probably out there. I guess you have to figure out if that extra 1/8 capacity is worth it. Also, with 3C collets you have to have the adapter. They can cost $40 and up. I think a new one is $130. Tom (5316)
Collets with LOO spindle
I'm another newbie with a Heavy 10 lathe. Can I use 5C collets with this lathe which has an LOO spindle (tapered keyed)? Would a face plate have to be used to hold the threaded collar that normally secures the chuck? I don't have the manual for this machine. It is 1968 vintage. Joe (6124)
Joe You certainly can use 5C collets with an L00 spindle heavy 10, assuming it is not one of the rare heavy 10's with the small (~1") spindle bore. The collet adapter goes on the inside taper of the spindle, and the L00 is an outside, male taper, so it is quite possible that the same collet adapter is used on the L00 as the other spindle arrangements. My 1958 catalog and several parts lists shows the same part number for the collet adapter for both the 2 1/4" x 8 threaded spindle and the L00 spindle, but they also show the same part number for things I know (or think I know) have to be different, like the faceplate. You may need to find somebody else who actually has an L00 version to answer this. I expect one of the suppliers like Dave Feiken (Meridian Machinery) can likely tell you, and may have one to sell. On faceplates and chucks, these come with a back arrangement which fits the L00 taper directly. You can either find a chuck which already has a L00 back, or get a L00 backing plate of the right diameter to fit whatever chuck you have or find, and then machine the backplate (on your lathe, of course) to fit the chuck. Again you can see what you can find on Ebay, or contact one of the dealers who deal with the amateur community, like Dave. Another is Sobel Machinery in Closter NJ. Both these guys will deal with mail order, and both can be trusted. There isn't a manual per-se. There is a parts list, and various notes which help with specific adjustments, etc. There is also a lubrication chart to tell you where to oil and with what oil. If you don't have one already, by all means find a copy of "How to Run a Lathe", by SB. Almost any vintage will do (they have published it since the teens, I believe), but a version from 1950 or so will be a better fit with your lathe than some of the very early ones. Frank (6143)
6K collet stop
Any of you guys know of an outfit that sells an adjustable collet stop for 6K (Light 10) collets? (6496)
I'm a little mixed up by what you mean by the term adjustable collet stop for the 6K. I have and use the 6K collets on my 10K which are made in different sizes. If I'm in a hurry I also use my Jacobs 58B (SBL P/N CE907) or 59B (SBL P/N CE925) Hollow Body Spindle Nose Chucks that allow turning long pieces of round stock and function as adjustable collets. When you say adjustable collet "stop" are you referring to the Collet Closing Sleeve which is "not" required on the SBL 10K lathe that use the 6K Collets. The 10K spindle is machined to close the 6K collets. I hope the above info was of use to you. Also, in the September/October 2002 issue of The Home Shop Machinist Magazine there is a good article on how to make your own 3C and 6K Collets. Jim (6512)
Collet Stop: It is a special tool that is inserted into the rear-end of the collet, that is used to limit the depth of a work-piece, so that repetitive operations can be performed on multiple work pieces such as "cut-off". Each piece would be cut to the same length. The device is common for the 5C Collet, and is held in the collet by using the internal thread of the collet or by cam-locks, as in the "universal" type. There are other types, that lock into the inside of the spindle, and provide greater depth for the workpiece. Aloris make a nice, spendy one of this design. Very useful gadget! (6514)
You hit the nail right on the head. I called Aloris and they faxed over a page out of the catalog with their spindle stops. The kit for the 10K is $156.00 which is not as bad as I thought it would be. I've thought about a bunch of designs to try on the 6K's but it all comes down to a serious restriction in real estate at the back of the collet. There is not a lot of room for a locking mechanism AND a position shaft. The Aloris might be a much better way to go all things considered. I'll give myself another day to conjure up something then I'll bite the bullet and call Aloris back. Bill (6519)
Bill You are going to spend $150 on something you can whip up on your lathe in an hour? Is not that why we have lathes so we can make these simple little items ourselves. JWE (6526)
James, I think the Aloris unit would take quite a bit more than an hour to replicate (IMHO). Also using the same ideology, because I have a vertical mill I should make my own quick change tool post as well? ( I did actually, but I like the Aloris better). Right now we are cranking out custom test fixtures for the DoD and they, quite frankly, pay really well. I felt my time could be better spent making parts for them and in turn spending some cash with the good folks at Aloris and trying to get this god forsaken economy pitched in a more positive direction (not that this simple purchase will have any sort of impact, 100,000 like transactions could however). I did end up making a simple collet stop to make the 200 firing pins I needed to make (because I couldn't wait for delivery of the Aloris unit) but I would need to make a custom rod for each job using my current design, and that takes time. The Aloris solution gives me one tool for almost any similar task and like anything from Aloris that I have used over the years, it will pay for itself over and over and over. However, if you have a design that is as robust as the Aloris that could be made by a human in an hour or less I'm all ears (eyes in this case). Bill (6544)
5C and 3C collets
Can 5C collets be made to fit the 9"' SB or do I need to stay with 3C? Clint (6652)
The only practical way to utilize 5C collets on the little SBL 9", is to install a collet chuck as made by Bison. It is available in standard and "Set-Tru" versions, with the 1.5 - 8 thread. Clint D (6653)
It also depends on your reason or need for collets. What size stock do you need to fit thru the spindle? What is the reason for needing collets for larger stock sizes than can be handled by 3C? I use 3C and ER32 collets on my SB9. 3Cs allow up to 1/2" diameter "thru the spindle" stock handling. At the moment, without having made a collect chuck for the ERs, I can handle up to 3/4" but not thru the spindle. Once a collect chuck is made, I can use the ERs to get the maximum "thru the spindle" stock handling the SB9 can do: 3/4". I make short run, repetitive parts from stock up to 3/4", so I do have a use for 3/4" thru the spindle stock feeding. An ER collect chuck may not provide faster stock handling than a 3- or 6- jaw chuck, however, so it may not make sense to make that ER collet chuck for that purpose. A good standard or "Set-Tru" type chuck might be better. Even with a 5C collect chuck, you won't get anything bigger than 3/4" thru the SB9 spindle, so you really have to ask yourself what your real need is. Collets are good for rapid, precision holding and for feeding stock thru the spindle, most often a production function. If you don't need the precision or the production, you may not benefit much from collets. Most hobbyists won't. Some obsessionists just have to have it all. What is your need? Rick (6654)
Got that, then all I need to run the 3C is the wheel, draw bar and closure, correct? Clint (6655)
You will need the hand-wheel drawbar, collet closer, and so-called "thread protector nut". The nut is used to cam the closer out of the spindle for easy removal. Clint D (6656)
Do you have an idea where I might be able to locate the 3C setup? Also, where would be the best place for me to check out for the 5C chuck, etc. I have a full set of 5C collets. Clint (6657)
Rick I really do not need the 5C but I do have a full set of the 5C collets, so all I need is the chuck, I either need to find one or make one? Clint (6658)
New England Brass is a good place to buy. (6659)
New England Brass and Tool. http://www.brassandtool.com/Chucks-Collet.html  They also advertise in Home Shop Machinist and Machinists Workshop. Good people to deal with. Rick (6663)
Clint, I made a collet adapter for 5-C collets, threaded 1 1'2" x 8, for my 9" South Bend lathe from the book, "The Shop Wisdom of Philip Duclos," p. 44 or the same article is reprinted in the magazine, "Projects in Metal," Feb. 88 issue p. 12. It is quite easy to make and includes a draw bar. Due to the simple design you can not hold long work pieces because you can not protrude through the spindle. The advantage is that you have 1 1/8" capacity vs. 1/2" capacity with the standard 9" South Bend 3-C collet arrangement. I now have both and it is great to have 5-C capability on the lathe along with the 5-C holding devices on my milling machine. Neil (6667)
Neil, where can I locate the magazine or do you have a copy? Sounds like something I could use. Clint (6669)
John MT collets as with B S taper and R8 because they are intended for holding cutters are not self releasing and will require a stiff rap on the draw bar to release them. If drawn up to tight they can require an extremely stiff rap to release especially MT collets. (6672)
Clint, Feb 88 Projects in Metal was the first issue. I have a copy of it that I would have to dig up. If no one else comes forward I will find it and copy the article. It will come to you by snail mail. Fred (6673)
5C won't work but 3C's are pretty easy. The hardest part is cutting the internal thread for the drawtube, it's a funky size that you can't get a tap for. Dave (6674)
Clint, Check Home Shop Machinists magazine, publisher's of both the book and the magazine. They probably have both available. Also you might try your local library. Neil (6675)
Your right Fred the Feb. 88 issue of Projects in Metal was the first issue. I highly recommend Frank Duclos' book, "The Shop Wisdom of Philip Duclos," though, both for some great techniques and a number of projects (If one wants to spend the money). The 5-C collet adapter was one of many fine shop projects. I'll send copies too if necessary. Neil (6676)
SB Collet help needed
I have what appears to be part of a drawbar collet setup for my 9". Can someone show me via photo or direct me to a place so that I can see all of the parts needed to make this work? I have everything on the one side but there seems to be nothing on the spindle nose side of the headstock to hold the collets. Do these collets (3C) use the #3 Morse taper to close or am I missing some parts here? I have no collets either. (6792)
Here is a nice picture that should help you out. Scott http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/page9.html (6795)
MT3 collets
I have an SBL 9" Model A. I got it with the 3C nose piece, the drawbar and one 1/4" 3C collet. I have since acquired several other 3C collets in different sizes. I guess the max opening is 1/2". I recently found a website. At this site is found, among others, specs on MT3 collets with a max opening of 3/4". Given that my 9" has a MT3 spindle is there a reason why MT3 collets will not work on a 9" SBL if I were to make my own drawbar? Jim (7978)
3C collets have an external thread and use a hollow drawbar so you can feed stock the length of the spindle for cutting parts off of long barstock. The 3MT collets have an internal thread so the amount of stock or workpiece inside the collet is limited. Beyond that they should work, but myself I'd rather take a chance on scoring a 3C adapter if something goes awry, than risk scoring the spindle bore itself. On a related note, Tony Griffiths makes reference to finding some 9's fitted with a modified Heavy 10 headstock with the big spindle bore...anyone here ever tried this? How much work is it? And has anyone tried the 5C collet chuck that hangs off the spindle nose with a scroll inside it? Lurch (7980)
The info about the 3C there is wrong. The 3C does not have a 5/8-26 thread. anyone trying to make a drawtube to that spec will be disappointed when it doesn't work. 3C's use a .640-26 thread or 41/64. Granted it's close to 5/8 but not close enough to work. Dave  (7982)
Cherry wood collet rack
I took a piece of nice cherry wood about 2 1/2" wide and 3" thick and drilled holes at a slight angle for the 3c collets I use the most. I soaked the whole thing in linseed oil and keep some lathe oil in the bottom of each hole so the bottom threaded part is always sitting in a bit of oil. I have a regular SB holder but the home made one is a way better and only about 1 hour to make. Any hardwood would do. I may make another but on a curve to hold the complete set. (9330)
Morse taper collets from Grizzly
Anyone tried them? Mike (10670)
Haven't tried those exact ones, but do have and use a set of ER32 collets, which are very similar. They Grizzly's don't specify tolerances, so you don't really know what you'd be getting. The primary drawback to that (type of) set is the drawbar. You will not be able to get stock thru the spindle, as it will be occupied by the drawbar. It may not be as good as a scroll chuck in that regard. You could possibly do as good or better with a 3 or 6 jaw scroll chuck with adjustable backplate for TIR. By making your own adjustable backplate, you can get into it for whatever it costs for the scroll chuck, which could be much less or similar to the cost of that collet set (and could even do it with one you already have). Once dialed in for a particular diameter, the chuck would probably be about as good as the collets for repeat holding and not any slower than the collets for part changes. What is your application? If you are doing milling on the lathe, a collet set like that would be great. Rick (10684)
Collet Chucks
I would like to have collets on my SB-9. The price, on EBAY of a closer, nut and adapter seems to be around $150 to $250. Then you are limited to 3C collets, which limit the size and the collets cost quite a bit. There have been several "complete" sets, closer, nut, adapter, wrench and collets in wooden boxes. These went for about $400. I have mentally decided to go with a collet chuck and use 5C collets. They are less expensive, more available and allow up to 1 1/8". However the entrance fee is high. The standard BISON is about $275 plus a backing plate which lists at $120. There are some TRU-Sets which show up for $400 to 450 with a backing plate. There are also a lot of Hardinge-Sjogrens showing up, some have D1-4 or D1-6 adapters which could be removed and replaced with a threaded backing plate, some are plane back. One went recently for $195. The questions I have are: Is my thinking on the 5C/collet chuck correct? What are the merits of a used, somewhat less expensive, Hardinge which I may never get trued up vs the New BISON? Jim B. (10881)
You might check out Morse taper collets. This was mentioned recently. The sets are available from Grizzly and another (probably better) place and are much cheaper, have a bigger capacity and seem to be a better investment. You will have to make a drawer bar but that is very straight forward. Max (10887)
Jim: If you are willing to hold off a bit, Andy Lofquist of Metal Lathe Accessories is working on a kit for a very nice 5C collet chuck for the South Bend 9". Casting patterns are nearly done. Kim (10896)
Kim: I wish I would have known that earlier! I've been working on my own version of a 5c collet chuck for the last 2 or 3 weeks (only can get a couple of free hours a week) and I fear the run-out will be unacceptable. On the other hand, it's my first "real" project, and I've been learning more with each chip that's turned. Maybe I'll turn it into a candle stick holder when I'm done. Tom (10899)
Collet sizes
Can anyone tell me if the 3 AT collets are a little smaller in dia. than the 3 C collets Also, is anyone aware of a collet that is a little smaller in dia. than the 3 C collets that work in the 9" SB lathe? The reason I ask, I supposedly purchased a 3C collet sleeve, but my 3C collets are just a little bigger than the inside dia. of the sleeve. But it fits my spindle fine, just wanting to know what it may be used for. Clint. (11308)
Clint, There are a couple of collet charts on the web. http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Reference/Tapers.php  MT - Jacobs - Jarno - Brown Sharp http://www.loganact.com/tips/collet.htm  3M - 3AT - 3C - 3J- 4C - 5C - R8 http://www.loganact.com/tips/r8.htm  dimm on R9 I didn't find any data on DA collets, but would like to have that. The 3AT small end OD is 0.687 the 3C small end OD is 0.65 so the 3C are the smaller ones. Dave (11317)
That is a strange one. There is one other collet that is in that size class, its called a 3PN collet and has the .650 body diam. The keyway of those makes them not fit the 3C closer, or the 3AT closer. (angle also different). How much smaller is the bore of that sleeve. RC (11321)
If 3C is the smaller? I wonder what this collet sleeve could be far? The guy i bought it off of on ebay claims his 3C fit it, but mine are to big, and they are marked 3C on the top! Clint 11323)
Dave/RC I measure the inside dia. of this sleeve and it is 0.590 my 3C collets measure 0.630 Clint (11326)
Dave/RC Thank that is strange, I also have another sleeve that measures 0.75 and the sleeve overall length is 2.50" and it looks maybe to fit a MT4 Taper. Clint (11327)
0.75 and milling machines. I have been looking at the collet charts in the shopswarf website. also there is the Hardinge website. There must be a zillion different kinds of collets. RC (11331)
0.75 and dia. (11332)
ODD that both sizes are so far off. maybe it is some metric part ? 0.590 is 15mm. Dave (11341)
Unfortunately, the ShopSwarf page does not load properly on my browser. The second column carries over, making it longer and it does not line up properly. Dave (11342)
I has made the window smaller and that is why the columns did not line up properly. Dave (11343)
Paul That is what I have found out, that it is for 2 B collets, the problem is I just mailed it back to the seller for a refund, but email me off list, I will put you in contact with him, he should have it back by Saturday or Tuesday, I mail it priority. I paid 40.00 for it, so that would be the price he will want, or close to that. I am assuming. By the way, anyone else need a collet sleeve, I have one that looks to fit a #4 taper with the inside dia, aprox. 0.75 Clint (11347)
6k collet
I have a Hardinge 3/32 6k collet (for a 10k lathe) that I would like to trade for one of the following sizes, if possible: 5/32; 11/32; 15/32 Alternatively, if anyone has any of the above 3 sizes and wants to sell, please let me know. Frank (11809)
Frank. I have N.O.S. south bend lathe 6K brass collets in those 3 sizes in their original containers at 15.00 each. Randy (11835)
Randy: I don't know what N.O.S means? I've also never used brass collets - do they hold up OK? I mostly work with brass and aluminum, but occasionally harder stuff. Frank (11839)
Frank, NOS is New Old Stock. Usually found lost in a warehouse or on the shelves of a dealer. Stan (11844)
R8 Collets #3MT Adapter
How would a R8 collet with a #3MT adapter work for holding end mills for milling with my 9" SB. Years ago I turned a couple of #3 MT end mill holders that worked fine but only holds the end mill size I made them for (with a set screw). Has anyone out there used a R8 collet with an #3 MT adapter? Are the adapter drilled so you can use a draw bar? Gary (12027)
Maybe I'm misreading the question, but an R8 collet won't fit into an MT3 socket, the OD of the collet is larger than the taper bore. I've seen R8 to MT3 adapters for use in mills and such, but haven't seen MT3 to R8. I think you would end up with around 4 inches of adapter body out past the spindle. MT3 end mill holders are readily available, and import ones are pretty low cost. Stan (12029)
Stan, you read me right and stopped me from doing something stupid. The only #3 MT end mill holders I have seen are only available in 3/8" 1/2" and those are the two sizes that I made years ago. Do you know where I could buy other sizes? (12032)
 When I got my Phase II tool post from ENCO about a month ago There was an ENCO Outlet flyer included. There is a 5 pc set of 3MT endmill holders 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4 for $69.99 Model # VQ307-2861. They are not in the regular catalog. They have a tanged end not a draw bar end. Jim B. (12039)
Collet adapter removal
I have a 10" toolroom lathe with a D1-4 camlock spindle. When the collet adapter is installed, the front flange of it is about 1/8" from the short taper on the nose of the spindle. The only way I can figure to remove the adapter is to poke a long brass bar through from tha left end and whack the end of the collet adapter. I don't like hitting this end, as there is a precision diameter inside the end of the adapter. What is the gentle way of removing the collet adapter from the spindle? I got no answer from the SB help line! With my "old" lathe, having a threaded spindle, it was easy to unscrew the sleeve off the spindle, thereby jacking the adapter out of the taper. Incidentally, I have a new faceplate with a D1-3 camlock back, which I'd like to sell. Anybody need it? Harold (12607)
Ever think of using a piece of Aluminum, it would be softer and less likely to damage any finished surfaces. Mike (12619)
Can I use a copper rod, its softer than brass and still heavy enough to nock the adapter out. Those adapters are hardened and ground parts. As long as you're using something soft to nock it loose, you wont cause any damage to anything but the soft bar. I do it that way to save wear on the threads. If you don't have much soft material around, make up a soft end to go on a steel bar. RC (12621)
Are all collets created equal?
Anyone out there have a preference for a collet manufacturer? I am in need of a set and I am not a fan of the ones from China. Philip (12719)
Both Royal Products and Hardinge make top quality collets. Royal has 5-C, Hardinge has almost anything you can imagine, and then some. (small plug) We carry Royal Collets and Closers (and their other products).  Scott Logan (12720)
For price and availability the Import ones do a good job and there are two grades of them out there. If you want better quality or selection or need collets other than 5C and R8 the you will need to go to Hardinge. Their standard price for off the shelf supplies of collets seems to be $29.95 for everything I have ordered yet although if you want a special size in a rare collet fast it can cost a lot more. JWE (12721)
As far as collets, Hardinge are probably the better quality, but a bit higher priced. Royal are supposed to be OK. There is Lyndex, made in England I think. I think they are in between Hardinge and Royal on price and quality. Some of the Mail order places sell 'Quality Import' collets. If you want collets at a good price and good quality you might check where these are made. I trust stuff made in Poland and other former East Block countries, especially Czech. I would look for the Bison Brand. I am not sure if they make 5C collets though. Still check that they are made in Poland or the Czech Republic. I think I saw some stuff (maybe Lathe Chucks) with the Bison name, but made in China. Some China stuff is OK, others junk. Quality is very inconsistent. I try and buy elsewhere if I can. Tom (12724)
What size collets? As a general rule, Royal and Hardinge are the first two choices if the cost is acceptable to you. For ER series ETM is good, for DA series Erickson is about it. In 5C there are some more options, if Royal is too steep, Enco does have Japanese made collets, at about halfway between Royal and "import." The older Japanese 5C collets were very nice, don't know if they still use the same vendor. Folks have reported size accuracy and slippage problems with Lyndex. Most of the import (PRC) collets I've bought have been fine. The finish of the keyway and threads can be a bit spotty, a quick pass with the wire wheel cleans off the threads, and a quick deburr of the keyway only takes a few seconds. TIR in just about off the the no-name imports has been 2 tenths at the collet, and less than half a thou an inch or so out. Stan (12727)
Stan, the collets made by Royal are OK but, if you want a collet that you can trust to be accurate on its threads, keyway and holding ability you cannot beat Hardinge. They are still in business and have a toll free number. Mike (12753)
SB Collets
Is there any difference between SB 3 collets that are marked SOUTH BEND on the side rather than on the top face?? They are exactly the same dimensionally. Also, is there any instruction around regarding the use of collets on the SB 9A with both the lever and draw type closers? (12881)
This is not an answer to the question at hand but rather an expansion. How do you type collets? (OK so I asked for that 1, "You type collets, COLLETS"). I want to know how you tell the different sizes and what they fit. I understand that my 9" SB uses a 3c, but what does the 3c mean? Does it tell a particular size, threading etc" I have a couple of 3h collets that are monstrous compared to the 3c. I have been told that 3a is the same, just shorter threads? If someone could explain or point me in the right direction to a web site or book that would explain the difference I would greatly appreciate it. BK (12885)
3C collets require an adapter that goes into the MT3 headstock taper. The adapter setup, when complete, comes with a large "nut" that goes over the spindle thread. The adapter goes into the spindle after the nut/nose protector is threaded onto the spindle. The adapter has a raised ring that is larger than the hole in the face of the nut. When you unscrew the spindle nose protector, it ejects the adapter. Add in a drawbar which goes through the spindle, one end with a handle to tighten, the other internally threaded to pull the collet up tight. 3C collets are somewhat limited in sizes supported, if you need more variety in sizes and shapes (hex particularly), a 5C collet chuck may be a better alternative. Hex and Square 3C collets do exist I understand, but I sure haven't come across them. 3AT collets have a larger OD and are shorter, I think they were a standard for Atlas lathes. Maybe others too. You can also make a drawbar and use MT3 collets. Not as handy as 5C, and you don't have the ability to pass work thought the spindle bore, but a fairly low cost alternative if suitable to your needs. Little Machine Shop sells a fairly nice set of MT3 collets for around $80. Scott Logan has a pretty good page of collet specifications on his site at: http://www.loganact.com/tips/collet.htm  There are special collets such as ER and DA series that are not common in the SB world, but with the correct adapters (home made or commercial) may fit a requirement better. These collets have more clamping range. A 5C collet should not be closed more than a few thou on stock, while an ER or DA series can compress up to 1/32. It is not unusual or unreasonable to end up with multiple collet styles in a shop, but try not to end up with three of one, five of another. When you have to change setups to change collet sizes work becomes a real pain. With a 5C collet chuck or home made adapter, you'll have collets that also work in spin indexers and H/V collet chucks (handy with mills or drill presses), and maybe R8 collets if you have a smaller mill or mill/drill. Add other styles based on requirements. As I often handle oddball sizes, making adapters to handle DA collets was worth it. If you always work with standard sizes, better to put the money into a 5C collet chuck and full set of collets. A 5C collet chuck is a pricey item ($250 to $300 when you include the backing plate), but the lower cost and wider range of easily available collets offsets this to great extent. Finding a perfect condition 3C adapter set can be tough, the last really clean setup I saw offered sold for around $135. You could always make the parts, but be ready to chase tenths on the adapter, it has to be your absolute best work. Stan(12889)
Collet sizes
I acquired a set of collets with my 10K, which has a closer mounted, and was wondering about their type/style in case I came across a good buy on additional sizes. They are in individual plastic cases marked South Bend on the bottom and are stamped South Bend 6K on the face, along with the size. According to the references that have been posted here, they measure as a 4C. Does the 6K stamped on the face mean anything? And is it likely that they are 4C, or is there another style with similar measurements? (13099)
They are 6K collets. I think 4C's are a bit bigger. If not, or they are the same dimensions, 6K collets have a slot/groove on the large taper. I think 4C's are on the main diameter body. 6K collets do show up every so often on E-Bay. The 6Ks, from my sources, was SB's way of increasing the collet capacity in the smaller SB lathes. 6K capacity is 5/8ths while 3C's are 1/2. They do/did make inch round, metric round, inch hex and inch square in 6K. Hardinge might make them on special order, but I hear they cost a bit. Some of the Used Machinery dealers might have some. I think they cost around $15-18 per collet. Tom(13101)
They do indeed have a slot on the large taper. I printed info from two different web sites about collet identification, and found no mention of 6K. (13158)
You might find this website useful too- http://www.hardingetooling.com It has collet picture and dimensions and prices for most collets. dp (13754)
Is this a 3AT Collet?
Can someone tell me what kind of collet this is? (picture not working). I have just this one and a nice Royal lever closer setup for a 1- 1/2x8 spindle (this collet was in the unit). Wally (13744)
I have a set of those and the collet chuck for them. Some of mine are marked Allison and I think the chuck is also. Went through trying to ID them no one ever figured it out (I don t think). Dennis Pantazis had some he sold me to complete my set. Lew (13746)
It sure isn't a 3AT if that is what you want to know. As to what it is, darned if I know. It doesn't match up anything currently shown as available from Royal or Hardinge. Over the years there have been so darn many collet variations it can be almost impossible to ID some oddball short lived ones. From the photo I can't tell if it takes a drawbar or what. The double angle head end makes me think it's a compression closing style, similar in operation to ER or DA style. You might make a good dimensioned drawing and mail it to Dave Sobel, Dave Ficken, and the folks at Plaza Machinery. They are all folks who know more about collets than most folks ever will. You might also post the picture to the metalworking dropbox and post a message on RCM asking for help identifying it. It sure doesn't appear to be in MSC, Travers, or the Enco catalogs. Stan (13748)
I have an Allison collet chuck and collets. they LOOK like the one of the pic you showed, but w/o diam's or lenghts it's hard to say. my take on it is that it is an allison. you can check the Hardinge catalogue for a good collet reference. I thought they have Allison's in there. http://www.hardingeworkholding.com/PDF/2348.PDF  I will not be able to measure my collets until the weekend. sorry but work drives my life right now. In the meantime, lew might it be possible that you could email wally rough dimensions of our collets? Wally, also put a pic of the collet closer, that might help id the collet if its the right closer. To my knowledge, all the allison stuff was front loading front closing, i.e. no drawbar. I have seen these collets and chucks associated to logan lathes, but to my knowledge scott isn't familiar with them. Dennis (13751)
Dennis The measurements I came up with today are: 1.9755 long overall .935 back diameter 1.12 taper length 1.335 diameter of largest part of taper; where the 2 tapers meet. These were hurriedly made with an old vernier caliper but should be pretty accurate. If descriptions don't make sense please ask for clarification! Sorry it took so long but hope this helps. Lew (13784)
I contacted an engineer at Royal Products (we are a distributor) and he does not recognize this collet or closer as made by them. The closer COULD be theirs, but probably modified to accept these collets. Not much help, I know, but the best I can come up with. Scott Logan (13793)
9" collet question
I have a 9" Southbend from 1938. I have no collets for it can I use a MT#3 collet? or is it a 3c. I have many 5C collets but no way to chuck them. (15048)
The spindle taper should be MT3 and you need an insert to use 3C collets, plus a nose protector and drawbar. You can get a 5C collet chuck for it. Bison makes what looks to be a nice one. Cost about as much as a 3C collet closer and collets, maybe less, if you went for a full set of 3Cs and then you'd only have up to 1/2" capacity. Rick (15050)
The 9" workshop uses 3C collets, 5C is way to big for the spindle unless you get a special 5C chuck with a MT3 adapter to fit the spindle, then you have no thru hole clearance. Clint (15051)
Clint The 5C chucks I've looked at mount on a backplate. The collets are closed by a large "nut" that turns similar to the scroll in a 3-jaw chuck. You get to use the full 3/4" thru hole. I wish I had one :-( John (15056)
6K Collets purchase
Anyone know where I can get new 6K collets at a reasonable price? They are available from LaBlond at $135.00 each, or Hardinge will make them for you at $250.00 each. If I can't find them, I will make some myself. (15816)
Somebody was looking for 6K collets. Grand Tool has them for about $25 each. Probably cheaper by the set but you gotta call 'em and ask. They also have 3C and some other oddballs. Probably imports, but the price is attractive. I ordered a Browne Sharpe #9 taper shell mill arbor from them for my old Sheldon mill and the arbor ran true. The cutter itself I was trying to use was eBay junk, and the back was a couple degrees out of flat to the front...but that's not the arbor's fault. No connection with Grand Tool except when I'm looking for weirdball tooling I'm glad they exist. www.grandtool.com Lurch (15821)
Collets
I have a 9" with the std. SB collet set-up. Are 3C and 1A collets the only ones that can be used with this set-up? Jim (16577)
You can get #3 morse taper collets up to 3/4". You have a #3 taper in the spindle I believe. JP (16579)
You can also use 3AT. I have set up for 3AT and 3C. You can use the same nose protector as for 3C. The 3AT draw bar is longer. You could use a 3AT draw bar and a spacer for 3C but not vice-a-versa. Jim B. (16581)
PS you need a different spindle to collet adapter for 3AT. I saw one, I think on the sister web site for $20. The OD of the 3AT is bigger than the 3C. Jim B. (16582)
What I said here is WRONG. The 3AT is the shorter of the two collets. It is bigger in diameter but shorter. The Threads are the same. You can use a 3C draw bar on a 3AT, with a home made Spacer but not a 3AT draw bar on a 3C. Jim B. (16583)
There is also a variant to 3C collets. I have some Hardinge collets 3CX. those collets are between 1/2 in ant 5/8 in diameter (I got 9/16 and 5/8). They are step collets. (stock cannot go through the spindle). They are the same length as the 3C collet, use the same draw bar. The 3C collet nose piece needs to be modified to accept them as the collet diameter is larger on a significant section. I ground the inside of my nose piece to 0.708 in inside diameter until the whole 3CX collet fit in the nose piece. The precision ground sleeve with the key way (0.650 in diameter) was not touched. The nose piece can still be used with 3C collets. Guy (16586)
My 1/2" 3C is worn out and I have been unable to find a replacement. I thought maybe I needed to widen the search with substitutes. Jim (16612)
All sizes are available from Hardinge by 64ths for $29.95 each. JWE (16615)
I would highly recommend that you don't modify your collet adapter to fit Hardinge or any other collet that doesn't fit. These collet adapters are hardened and are concentric, ID to OD within about 0.0001-0.0002". 3C collets are widely available, and at a price much less than Hardinge. I'll have to go through my box of spares and see if I have a spare 1/2". Harold (16617)
I was away from my computer until just a few minutes ago, so I missed the E-bay collet. I do appreciate the heads-up about it. Jim (16618)
How do I get in touch with Hardinge? Jim (16619)
Try this link---- http://www.hardinge.com/ Ron (16621)
Hardinge is a brand of tooling including collets. depending on who you ask it's either the best or darned near close. Id's like 3C, 3AT, 6K, 5C, etc are all types of collets. many manufacturers make them. Which one you can use in your lathe depends on many factors. Many places have them new, some of the used and parts dealers we have discussed probably have one used. dennis (16626)
I would suggest that all of you seriously consider "making" your own C3 collets. The cost/quality of these collets 2nd hand on Ebay is ????? so please see the article by Rudy Kouhouopt in his book "Shop Wisdom" Volume #3.(page 25). This book and other good articles are available through; Village Press Inc. Travers City, Michigan (16779)
MT 3 collets disadvantages?
Are there any disadvantages in using a plain MT 3 collet over the 3C, 3AT? (16899)
The 3C and 3AT are bored through. The Draw Bar also has a through hole. This allows long stock to go through the spindle and exit the rear . Thus you could turn a shoulder on a 1/2" shaft say 36" long. The MT3 collets are solid and have a smallish threaded rod to draw them in. Only a short length can penetrate the collet. Jim B. (16903)
Collet stops
I have recently bought a full set of collets of mixed ancestry and the proper closer as well from a member. I just noticed on ebay an item called a collet stop and wrench. I think I understand it's purpose. Stops the stock from sliding in the collet throat? Is this something that I should maybe bid on? I also noticed it fits Hardinge collets. My Hardinge is smooth inside but my imports are threaded .Would a collet stop work for both? I turned some 5/8" steel last night with my collet set and it worked very well. Made some magnetic holders for all those pesky chuck keys that seem to get everywhere but where I told them to stay:-).They turned out pretty good. This is my first real project on my south bend. Tom (16952)
A collet stop is useful for making multiples of something to the same size. Lets say you want to make 4 spacers 2.000 +/- 0.005. You cut four pieces of stock a tad over length, face one end on each. Make one to length, with the lathe carriage lock set. Mike, repeat using the compound to fine tune length. Once the length is dead on, you can then mount the remaining 3 pieces and face to length with a good level of repeatability. It adds a bit of time to making the first piece, but then makes getting the remaining ones automatic. If work slips in a collet, you are possibly: Taking way too deep a cut. Using the wrong tool geometry for the material. Using stock that is too small for the collet (Most collets are only to compress several thou, ER and DA types excepted). Not tightening the collet enough. Have too much oil on the material, Usually doesn't matter, but if you are cutting with a fair amount of force to hog off waste this can come into play. If you were making a bunch of spacers that needed a groove in the same spot you would set up with a cut off type tool, sanity check one, then do them all. Saves having to measure and setup for the same operation time after time. Rather like a mill stop used in conjunction with a vise if you're familiar that that sort of fixturing. Stan (16954)
I didn't know that was the main use for a stop. I have learned my machining lesson for the day I think I may just try to get one some time but I don't see me doing multiple stuff too soon. BTW I didn't have any slippage of my stock but could see it happening if as you say the stock was undersized. I'm really just getting started, haven't done a thread yet even. I will try one soon just for the experience. Tom (16956)
Collet Question
I recently purchased a group of 6K collets on E-Bay. There were 14 collets in the group. Of the 14 I only needed 3 or 4. However even if I never use the others at ~$15 for RSB or Hardring collets I was not doing too bad. There were three collets made by Modern. These are labeled "soft" They are steel not brass. The sizes are 1/8, 1/2, and 9/16. Question 1) What is a soft steel collet used for? Question 2) Can I open these up to the next larger 1/32 or 1/64 th diameter. Question 3) How? Bore? Drill? Ream? I assume I would need to insert fillers in the slots to prevent the collet from compressing. Jim B. (17200)
Soft collets are machinable to any configuration you want. Do they have 'pin' locations in the slots? If so then just pin them there and machine away. I would bore them to maintain concentricity. JP (17203)
4c Collet dimensions?
I need to get some 4c and 3c collet specs. Base diameter, length and diameter at head. Any help would be great. (17646)
http://loganact.com/tips/collet.htm - Scott Logan (17647)
Email me offgroup and I will scan and send page from SouthBend Accessory Guide with complete sizes and drawings for 3,6K,2,4 and 5. Manual says interchangeable with 2A,3C,4C and 5C. Ron (17648)
SB #4 COLLETTHD DIA .942 THD LNGTH 13/16 TPI 20 BODY DIA. .9495 COLLET LENGTH 3 " HEAD DIA. 1.150 ANGLE OF HEAD 10 DEG T (17651)
Collets for a 9"
I have been trying to determine if I can use 1A collets on the9" south bend lathe. I read that the proper collets are 3C, but have found info that 1a are the same? or very similar, and seem to remember also reading that 1a fit the 9". All of this is very unclear, and since I only have a set of collets, and not a collet nose for the lathe, I cannot simply try them. So before I purchase a collet nose, I would like to find out if these 1a collets really will work with the 9". Darren (18318)
While they are similar, there is a slight difference in the overall length, and may be a difference in the closing angle. The length is only 1/8" difference, but I'm going to bet the angle is different. 3-C and 3-AT collets are available, often at reasonable prices, and certainly from Hardinge (for slightly higher prices). I rather doubt if 1-A collets are available. If you already have a bunch, that alone might be reason enough to go that route. While we are talking about collets, it should also be remembered that 3-C and 3-AT are NOT interchangeable. 3-AT collets have a larger body, and 3-C are longer. In addition, the closing angle *IS* different. One is 10 degree, the other is (I think) 14 degree. Scott S. Logan( 18320)
I just bought another 9" today. This one had 1A collets with it- some made by south bend. Also had 3SB and 3A. They all seem to fit fine to me. nose, is doubt alone that the http://www.lathe.com (18474)
Collet suggestions needed
The South Bend 9 that I have purchased come with some accessories but does not come with any collets, or any other collet accessories. I have to start from scratch. In my mind it is not critical that I stay with orginal equipment. My experience with collets is very limited, but I do have a specific use for collets with dimensions from about .150 up to .375. I can't see going much above or below those numbers, but you never know. Any suggestions about what or where to begin? Should I go to an ER type collet set up, a collet chuck or stay the traditional collet route and go with the 3c's. Mark (18582)
A lot depends on how you will be using the collets. If you will be changing parts in the collet frequently you will defiantly want the 3C with lever operation. If you will just be working on the parts in the collet and changing tools for different operations without removing the part from the collet then almost anything will work. ER and DA collets have a wider clamping range than 3C collets do so you will need fewer of them. ER and DA collet chucks can be made to thread on a chuck would giving you some other options. 5C chucks are also available now at a fairly reasonable price so consider that option also. (18583)
This brings up an interesting question - the collet chucks I've seen advertised have significant radial run-out. In fact, the run-out on my headstock Jacobs chuck is less. So why bother with a collet chuck? What are the advantages of collet chucks? Frank
(18585)
Old collets
A question about old collets, I hope someone has an answer. My 9 inch SBL has a collet chuck that threads onto the spindle. I have only one example of the collet itself (1.125 dia. stock size) It has a 1.375 x 20 thread is 3.675 long. This thread doesn't match any current collets I am aware of. Does anyone know of such a lathe collet and if any are obtainable? There are no manufacturer's marks anywhere on the collet or chuck. I believe the vintage would be from the 40's or 50's. John (19743)
Best chart I know of and nothing really matches what you describe. http://shopswarf.orcon.net.nz/collet.html Jeff (19746)
Yes, I f I didn't have the collet in my hand I wouldn't believe that there is another obsolete collet style. Amazing. I sent my info to the owner of that list so he can add another collet to his list if he wants to. John (19747)
I have a collet chuck for a Southbend that takes # 21collets, BS I believe. The end cap pushes the collet in and closes it.(19748)
Collets for 9" Junior New from late 1920's
I just got an old South Bend benchtop lathe, which I think is a "Junior New" model. I didn't get an collets. I was wondering if the collets and drawbar from the "A" would fit this? There doesn't much on these old models on the site that I found so far. (20141)
They should work the only difference might be the length of the spindle, which might make the draw bar in-operative. Now that you have a lathe you can fix that problem real easy. Check out the junior group not real active but lots of knowledge. http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/SBL_Junior_Lathes/  Scott. (20147)
Collet question?
I have a 9" Model A with no collets or any other collet accessories. I am thinking of buying collets, but need the entire assembly also. My question is, will 5C collets fit my lathe, or am I forced to stay with 3C. If that is the case, what is the difference between 3C and 5C collets. Mark (20390)
The 9" will take 3C or 3AT collets with the proper draw bar, adapter and nose piece. The parts are different for the 3C and the 3 AT. If you get a collet chuck then you can use 5C collets. The largest diameter the 3C comes in is 1/2" 5C' go up to 1 3/16 I believe. The hole through the 9" is 3/4. The use of a collet chuck will reduce the working length of your lathe. A draw bar, adapter, nose piece and a reasonable set of collets will run you around $300 to $350 on e-bay. A collet chuck new is around $275 + a backing plate, collets are extra. The collet chuck, because it is a chuck and is mounted on to the spindle is not as good in concentricity as the collet that goes into the spindle. There are Tru-Set versions which are supposed to overcome this. If you have the money and if the reduced length from the chuck to the tailstock is not an issue the collet chuck may be a more versatile way to go. If you want to ease into it, find a drew bar, adapter and nose piece, about $125, perhaps less, on e-BAY, and purchase your collets as you need them. I have been able to average about $7 for 3C/$3AT collets. The lowest I paid was $1, the highest was $16. That was a brand new RSB in its original container. I believe I got the 3C stuff and then started on 3AT. All the while I kept looking at collet chucks. I wanted the larger size capability. After spending about $200, I converted my 9" to take 6K collets, This gives me 5/8 maximum size. I seldom use the 3C/3AT stuff now. The 5/8 capability has really paid off. If I were starting out now, with what I now know, I would got the collet chuck route. Jim B. (20391)
5C and 3C are entirely different. 5C has a max bore of 1/2". 5C can go over 1". The 9" lathe takes 3C in an adapter. 10K takes a similar collet (6K) directly. The 10 Heavy (10L) takes 5C with an adapter if 2 1/4-8 large bore. RichD (20394)
Collet sizes?
I ran across some South Bend collets and I'm not sure what size lathe they fit. There are two sizes. The big ones are marked 2A and the smaller ones are marked 3 (not 3C). Does anyone know which South Bend lathes these collets fit? Vince (20553)
My heavy 10 takes SB 2 collets and I am missing the 3/16 and the 7/16 so I am interested. This heavy 10 has a spindle with a 1 7/8 8 nose thread and I think the collets are 11/16 MT3. Also, I have a SB collet holder for 5C collets if anyone is interested Ray (20564)
As Ray noted, the 2A collets fit the small spindle bore heavy 10. There was also a small bore 13" which took the same #2 collets. In the early days SB just used number designations like #2, #3 and #5. I know the old SB #5 is the same as a modern 5C collet, and I believe your old collets marked 3 are in fact the same as the later 3C. Frank (20570)
Collet adapter key
Has anyone replaced the key in the heavy 10 collet adapter? (20695)
Can't see where it would be too tough. Make round pin to tap fit in hole of collet adapter. Turn other end (piece that sticks out inside) to have a slight bit of clearance in slot in threads of collet or you can file it with flats on the inside if you are after more of the original design. Length of pin sticking out inside sleeve would of course have to be short enough not to rub on bottom of slot in collet. Ron (20700)
6k collets
I've been looking for square and hex 6k's for quite awhile and not having any luck. I lost out on a set of squares by Buck on ebay a few months ago, and they are the only ones I've seen. Anyone have any leads, or better yet, any for sale? Gene (21793)
Gene, Hardinge Precision makes lots of different collets - perhaps they can supply the 6K's. Last time I looked they were about $30 apiece. George (21835)
The square and hex are $180 each, a bit out of my budget. I'm beginning to wonder if there are any simple alternatives. Has anyone converted or added another style of collet holder to a 10k? Gene (22038)
What about a front mount 5-C collet chuck? 5-C Collets can be had for as little as $6 each. In fact, anyone who orders one of these chucks from us can have all the round 5-C collets they want for $5.50 each. Scott Logan (22039)
Metal lathe accessories has a 5C collet setup for the SB 9 and 10K. It comes as a kit where you machine the castings. Hex and square 5C collets are cheaper. http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA21.html I saw the prototype at a show last year. JP(22040)
Somebody is making a huge profit then as new ones can be ordered from Hardinge for $29.95 for stock items or if you are willing to wait a while till they run some more stock. Or $69.95 if you absolutely must have a special next week. Or for the $29.95 you can buy off the shelf soft head emergency collets and finish them yourself to the desired size. Just never could understand someone paying more than new list for a worn out used one. JWE (22041)
Has anyone here ever researched how complicated [or how simple] it would be to use ER-series collets? I don't have access to my reference books at the moment but I'm wondering how close [if at all] the nose angle is on a 6K collet to the major angle on an ER-whateevr... Metal lathe accessories has a 5C collet setup for the SB 9 and 10K. It comes as a kit where you machine the castings. Hex and square 5C collets are cheaper. http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA21.html  I saw the prototype at a show last year. JP (22046)
Southbend Lathe Collet Attachment
I need help getting a 6-K handlever-type collet attachment back into operation on a Southbend (SB) 10-K lathe. If anyone has any experience or expertise in SB drawbars/collet attachments, I could really use your help. My 10-K lathe (used, good condition, estate sale) was set up by previous owner (deceased, so I can't ask him) to primarily use 3 4 jaw chucks but came with an apparently complete collet attachment full set of 6-K collets. In trying to get the attachment back into service, it seems that some parts are either missing or worn out. I have a SB parts list that shows a take-up ring screw washer at the spindle end; this is missing from my machine. Looks like these might be needed in order to attach the drawbar. Parts list also shows a "key" or pin of some type that is supposed to fit in the sleeve-end of the draw bar where it slides into the spindle. Also shows a small pin or screw at the threaded-end of the spindle shaft that is supposed to keep the fitted collet from turning; this seems to be sheared off; can't tell if it was a straight or tapered pin, a screw-in or drive fit. If anyone can help, I would like to correspond with you via email or snail-mail. If you have a set of the original (SB) instructions on any of this, I would really like to get a copy. (22861)
I have that unit on my 9A. The only attachment point is the pivot pin on the left headstock casting. The drawbar head only slides into the spindle and over the small pin in the side of the spindle. Nothing more. Tell me the parts list numbers for these so I can figure out what these are. On the lathe spindle? The catch pin in the spindle nose is not really necessary. RichD(22864)
My parts drawing shows a pin or screw in a collar of some type mounted on on the left end of the spindle shaft (calls it a take-up nut). From what you said, it would seem like the slot in the drawbar sleeve simply slides over (engages) this pin or screw head and that is what "connects" the drawbar assembly to the spindle (other than the cast iron yoke bar, which I found did fit on a rod projecting from the headstock case). Sound correct ? Good to know the pin in the working (threaded) spindle end is not needed. Mine is sheared off the remains embedded in the spindle cone. Not sure I could get it out to replace it. (22909)
Steve: You still need that pin broken off in your spindle if you plan on using 6K Collets as they require no Spindle Adapter Sleeve and still require something to stop them from spinning in Spindle and damaging Spindle Bore . If you plan on using 3C or 1A Collets then I THINK there was a special Spindle Adapter Sleeve sold by SB but I am not 100% sure. Anyway your Closer will have the correct threads in it for 6K and not 1A or 3C collets. Who is the member that converted his 10K to take a 9" Spindle or vise-versa? Do you have any insight into this ? Ron (22943)
Yes Ron, I do. The 10 K uses the same adapter for 3C as the normal 9" spindle. Its not a special. I agree you should replace the pin. There is also an adapter available, although rare, which will take 3AT collets. I have all three. Jim B. (22950)
Jim: If Steve has the 10K Handlever Closer Attachment ( I assume that is what he has although I believe his original post just said 10K Lathe with Handlever Closer) then he MUST fix the Spindle Pin or else he would not be able to use 6K Collets. If however the attachment he has is for the 9" ( but fits the 10K) then all he would need is the spindle adapter sleeve and 1A or 3C collets and then he would be away to the races. Ron (22951)
I forgot to mention in both posts that the drew bar for 3AT has the same threads as 3C. The 3AT collets are sorter and slightly larger in OD requiring a spacer on the spindle and a different adapter. Jim B. (22959)
C4 Collets
Which lathe uses the C4 collets? I have an almost complete set of C4s with the headstock adapter and original SB collet rack (minus the lathe attachment arm), many of the collets are original SB. I'm curious as to which lathe its supposed to fit. The current accessories catalog doesn't even list C4s. The adapter is similar to the 5C with the large diameter being 1.328", the smaller is 1.247", the largest collet is 3/4". The C4 isn't a typo, that's what SB engraved on them. Bernard R (24380)
Me thinks the 14.5" with the 1.125" thru hole spindle (24381)
You are correct. Look in this site for collets and other neat stuff. www.shopswarf.orcon.net.nz Bob (24382)
Bernard: just was reading your post about C4 collets. I have a collet rack with this code stamped on it CR-100. The holes are .945 It was sold to me as a 3C collet rack which they fall thru the holes. On the tray left side it has 4 holes all different sizes. Turn the rack over and under the tray is stamped 780F2 The bed clamp underside is stamped 864F1. I think it is for 4C collets and a 14 1/2 lathe. If anyone knows what lathe this was made for I would like to know. I plan want to sell it and was going to ask Rose at Parts Work if she knew. But tonight I saw the your post so I am asking for help on this. Dave (24384)
The "C" in C4, C5 etc stands for Cataract which was a predecessor of Hardinge. The C4's are slightly smaller than C5's and I think the max size is 3/4. Some Hardinge, Cataract and the Rockwell 10 use them. Just some info I ran across. It probably doesn't help you much but I thought it was interesting. (24385)
Dave: Collet Rack with those sizes and Casting and Stamped numbers is definitely for a 14-1/2" SMALL BORE SB Lathe. There is a large bore model in 14-1/2" that uses 5C collets. I just sold a Collet Rack for that configuration. Someone Emailed me recently looking for the size rack you have so I will dig up his Email address and forward it to you. My 4C collets however measure .950 Diameter so are you sure of hole size? Ron (24386)
Is 4C a typo? Sheldon lathes used the 4C collets. (24387)
Some South Bend Collets are marked 4C and some are marked C4. I have a few of both. Ron (24388)
Jon, No help here either but it might be of interest to some. I actually have an old, about 1920's Hardinge, Cataract Lathe that takes the 5C collets right in the spindle. It's a secondary operation lathe. Jim (24390)
Need a Collet? Buy? Make?
Reading HTRAL for the umpteenth time (I must be a real "born to be a lathe op" cuz I STILL like that material) I have been kinda skimming the part about collet work. I been sayin' "collett-schmollett, I ain't gonna build no watches!" All this talk about collets on here, lately and in the past stuff I been diggin' in has now piqued my interest. Seem I have realized that if your tailstock is centered dead on the headstock, AND you have a collet, chuck brain damage is cured, and all that horsing around with faceplates, dogs an such is on the back burner. SO! DO you have to spend an arm and a leg to get a VERY basic collet set up? Please don't ask me to make one already. You guys are gonna hear a lot of tears from me before I tackle such a project. It would seem to me that one could get by with three maybe four sizes of collets. What say the Sages? (25745)
Just a caution about buying cheaper collets - they may have more runout than you bargained for, like a couple thou or so. If you plan to do work finer than that, and can't always take a truing cut, go for the better ones. I'll let the experts tell you which they are. Irby (25746)
Simple answer is you must pay what market value is, which on that commodity as well as Steady Rests , Follower Rests and Micrometer Stops is getting top $. What size lathe you working with? Ron (25747)
I have 5C collets, which I use when ever I can for the reasons you have mentioned. However, with to-days technology, I would be seeing if I couldn't make an adapter for ER collets, the collets themselves aren't too expensive on e-bay. The one problem with the single angle split collets is that you have to be working with pretty much stock sizes, too big and it won't go in, too small and you're holding the work just on the outer ring of the collet. ERs on the other hand, with their double taper, are designed to fit a size range, so you end up with far fewer collets covering the entire range for that series of collet. Depending on which lathe you have you could use either ER32s(0.787" max) or ER40s(1" max). Bernard R (25753)
Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I can get my ER40 collet chuck done. I have about 80 bucks in a whole set of collets and some labor. I think it would be easier to make a chuck with ER collets than with 5C's. Bob (25754)
On second thought, I'd go for ER40s as an extra protrusion from the spindle is no big deal. (25755)
There is a nice pic of an ER collet chuck on the 8x18 group homepage. That's sort of how I am making mine like. I just increased the ER collet size. Bob (25756)
Jerry, If you need dead nuts prefect, collet sets are the way to go. If you cannot afford a set, see if you can get a nice closer and piece together the major sizes you need for stock. In 3C, I use 1/8, 3/16,1/4, 5/16, 3/8, 7/16 and 1/2. I have 32nds and some 64ths, but rarely go to that. If the parts can be had cheap, you get a nice usable set. HOWEVER, do you have a Jacobs spindle chuck? You may want to get one of those first. I use that more than the collets. They are under $150 used, and have much more versatility than the collet sets. Runout is under .001. Any other members use one of these? Mike (25758)
Bob, Did you buy the nut or make it? I haven't been able to find the specs and didn't know if the thread was English or Metric, as I haven't got change wheels and I hate cutting metric threads on an inch LS, I was going to make my own if I had to. Bernard R (25759)
Bernie, I plan on cutting my own. I have checked everywhere for a American thread and can't find one either. I am still waiting for my collets to come in. Bob (25761)
So does this mean I am going to make another collet closer? (25766)
Wayne that's half the fun of more toys. Bob (25767)
Bob, do you intend to use the spindle thread or a drawbar to retain the chuck body? Also, have you a dimensioned drawing of the collet nut? I've done a pretty exhaustive search of Google but without success. Bernard R (25772)
Bernie, I have the collet body made, it screws on the spindle. I think I saw collet nut dims at www.airgas.com  I know its in their paper book. I was just going to size it up myself per the collets. Let me do some digging on the nut drawing. Bob (25773)
Lots of very good feedback from you fellows. If I run into some collets and the "closer" , I think you called it, I may get them. As was said, the market sets the price and likely to pay a nice stack of paper for the stuff. The lathe I am using is a 9". Sounds like the steady rest and the follower rest that I got with it is a lucky thing for me! I have a Jacobs chuck that Dad always put in the tailstock. He used that a lot. I am guessing that the shaft on it is a #2 MT, so it wont work in the headstock. (right?) I also have two other Jacobs chucks , still in the metal box they were delivered in. I know frightfully little about them. They are labeled to be "for armature work". I can, of course, understand that statement. I also can play with them enough to tell they are not your "plain" Jacobs chucks. After that my knowledge is pretty laughable. Mike (25778)
You might consider doing what I did and buying the nut. They're not particularly expensive and it seemed to me that it would be difficult to make, particularly the eccentric ring in the nose which extracts the collet when unthreaded. I made my collet chuck for ER32 collets, since the maximum size pretty well exactly matches the spindle bore of my 9" lathe. Nick (25781)
Nick, Any ideas where to get one in English threads. The only ones I found are metric and 80 bucks. Chris over at the 8x18 group has given me his insight on making one. Bob (25782)
Jerry, You can use the mt2 tooling in the headstock with an appropriate MT2 to (whatever) sleeve. The sleeves are fairly inexpensive and provide a lot of flexibility for tooling. George (25789)
ER collets are to a German Standard DIN 6498 so, if you want to keep it standard you are stuck with metric threads. My ER 32 holder is 40 mm diam, 1.5 mm pitch. If you brew your own nut anything similar will do, 1 5/8 at 16 tpi sounds good to me for ER 32 but then you have to cut that eccentric extractor ring in the nut which looks a total PIA. Don't even think about trying to do without it as ER collets are very close to self holding taper and need a good pull to get them out, donking from the rear looks pretty unpromising. An alternative approach is to keep an eye on E-Bay for holders on the large milling machine tapers 30, 40 or 50. These frequently go pretty low and there is a good bit of metal to modify for fitting onto a small lathe. Gets you a hardened socket too. Main drawback is that the mounting taper is hard too and, usually the steel is pretty good. Angle grinder to unwrap the hardening and good sharp tooling. Clive (25793)
Clive, thanks for the suggestion of using one of the larger CAT holders bears looking into. I'm going to try some experiments on single pointing a metric thread on my CMC mill / Rotary table, that will give me a push one way or the other. I really like the idea of changing to ERs, I'd like to do both the SB and mill, that way I only have to have one set of collets and with the current price of SB parts I'd likely come out ahead if I ebay the lathe system. Bernard R (25799)
You can buy an ER32 collet chuck that screws onto the SB 9" spindle for about as much as a nut costs from other suppliers: http://www.bealltool.com I have one and find it works great. Due to the screw-on holder, I believe it doesn't have the same concentricity as 3Cs inside the spindle, but its still quite good. I happen to have a full set of 3C collets, so tend to use them before going to the ER collets on the lathe. This setup is good for sized over 1/2". Rick (25800)
Bob, I bought mine mail order in the UK for (I think) about 12 which would be about $20. As far as I know they only come with a metric thread but I got round this by hand filing a gear for the SB which cut the thread near enough exactly. Personally, I found that cutting the internal taper was the hardest part, I'm not sure it's exactly right even now but the last step will be to case harden it and then do a final light grind to get it 'just so'. Nick (25814)
Nick, I've been trying to give the overall design some thought and I'm wondering which will give the greatest accuracy: 1. Use the spindle taper and retain with a 'nut' on the spindle threads. 2. Make the body to screw onto the spindle. Though it's more work I'm inclined to option 1. Thoughts - Pros / Cons? I ran an experiment to cut a thread on my CNC mill/rotary table to- day using a single point tool, slower than hell but gave very good results; opens up all sorts of possibilities, it means I can now cut metric threads and if ever the need arises multi starts. Bernard R (25821)
I am looking for the #3 mt but I might have a 2 to 3 adapter if you think that will work.  (25823)
I will have to go look, and respond, maybe direct email. Gary. (25824)
If you use the spindle taper draw it from behind. I have done this before with other tooling. If you do the spindle set up you will loose the whole through the headstock. I have seen these closers with a MT3 taper, it would just fit the SB 9" and 10K right out of the box, you would just need to hold it on place. (25825)
Bernard, In some respects, option 1 would be easier, since you won't need to cut the taper. Disadvantages seem to me to include the fact that the Morse taper isn't self releasing which means finding some way of knocling the collet out from behind, and that you will be limited in the size of the through hole. I went for option 2, using the following stages (based on using ER32 collets): Get a length of bar 2 1/4 dia x 3 long and bore a 3/4 hole right through it. Bore and thread one end to screw onto the spindle. This needs to be done right as everything else depends on it. I cut as exact a copy of my spindle thread and register as I could out of brass so as to check the fit without needing to unchuck the work. If it's no good when finished, start over with a new length of bar. Screw the body onto the spindle and lightly machine the sides and end (this is just so it looks real nice, it's probably not necessary from an engineering point of view). The work stays screwed to the spindle from now until the jobs finished. Lightly re bore the through hole, this should now be perfectly concentric with the spindle and lathe axis assuming the lathe itself is OK. Cutting the taper for the collet and thread for the nut is fairly obvious from now on, except you need to remember that that the collets move quite a long way in on their minimum setting so the taper needs to be deeper than you might initially expect. Nick (25848)
ER40 collet chuck
I bored my chuck body for ER40 collets tonight. I pushed a collet in the taper and ran the lathe. Runout is super small. Well worth the 80 bucks I have in the 14 piece set of collets. Now to make a nut. Bob (26098)
I have been noting this thread on the ER 40 collet chuck, but I must admit, not looking too closely. I dunno what an ER 40 is. You recall my offhanded interest in collets recently. So, any pics out there of this project? Sumthin' I can ruminate on whilst I play with this old SB 9A.? Jerry (26100)
I will have plenty of how to make it pics as soon as I get my digital camera back from my kid. Bob (26101)
Where did you get 14 collets so cheap too? Jim (26108)
The guys on eBay sell the Chinese ER32 and ER40 sets for *way* cheaper than ETM's. I've avoided them because I've heard several folks complain about really poor concentricity with them. Any comments on the Chinese ER's? (26110)
On eBay, $70.99 + 10 bucks shipping. Seller ID 800watt I am sure he has more. Bob (26115)
I just need to fine tune my ER40 collet chuck. Runout is very good as is the price. 80 bucks and some time. Pics are under my aametalmaster profile. Bob (26223)
I really like the collet chuck! Makes me wonder why I didn't think of that sooner. Guess I will have to make one to fit my lathe and ER25's that I have already. Thanks for the idea! I would "assume" the closer just has the angle on the inside or did you make the "snap in washer" that a standard collet closer nut has? (26224)
I have never seen inside a factory made collet nut so I am kinda lost at that point. Mine just has the nose taper without the washer. If collet removal is a problem I will just make a brass knocker. Bob (26225)
 
     
 

Index       Home Page