| 5 c Collet Chuck and Web Address
for Castings (Feb 20, 2001) |
South Bend - 5, Collet 1" to 1/64" (Jul 25, 2003) |
| 5c collets on 9" SBL?
(Apr 17, 2002) |
5C
Collet question (Nov 5, 2003) |
| 5-c adapter, heavy10 (May
9, 2002) |
5C
collets and 10 Heavy (Jan 15, 2004) |
| 5C
on a 9 inch lathe (Aug 24, 2002) |
Grizzly 5-C collets (Jun 25, 2004) |
| Mod
of Ty's 5C collet chuck (Aug 25, 2002) |
5c
collet adapter or chuck? (Dec 6, 2004) |
| 5C
Collet Chuck? (Nov 13, 2002) |
I
finished my 5C collet set up (Mar 3, 2005) |
| 5c collet stop (May 25,
2003) |
|
| |
| 5 c Collet Chuck and Web Address
for Castings |
| Finished my 5c
Collet chuck, will get a few pics up later, in the mean time, the
website address for the castings is as follows:
http://www.sc-c.com/metallathe/ (250) |
| 5c collets on 9" SBL? |
| How would I use 5c
collets on my SBL and is there anyone out there who would have this
type of adapter for sale? (3936) |
| I use the 3c collets but have a
chance to buy a complete set of 5c collets. Since I can only chuck
up to 1/2" I thought the 5c set might be handy for over 1/2"
diameter on short stock . Does anyone know what kind of Jacobs chuck
or whatever adapter I would need to do this and what would a used
one cost? Or does anyone in the club have a adapter like this for
sale. (3937) |
| There is an
item called a "collet chuck." If you look at
www.use-enco.com ,
under model number 271-5610, you will see it. Their price is $257.95
US, so that is kind of expensive. You would need to make or convert
a face plate or chuck adapter plate so that it would fit onto your
spindle. The disadvantage of this sort of device is that it will
stick out from your spindle, and might not run as true as your 3C
collets that can already fit into your spindle. Jon (3939) |
| I made a 5C
collet fixture for my lathe a while back. I made it generally like
an article in Home Shop Machinist Jan/Feb 1997 by D. E. Johnson. It
has worked out pretty well. I made mine from a piece of 2 1/2 inch
round stock I had in the junk pile. If I had it to do over again I
would buy the grey iron the article recommended. The steel I used
was tough to work with and the 2 1/2 inch diameter left too little
room to bore and use alignment pins. I had probably 20 hours total
and almost zero money in the project. It was a good exercise in
boring and honing close tolerance holes. I would recommend it as a
good project. Dallas (3952) |
| I made the
5-C Collet Adapter from the book "The Shop Wisdom of Phillip Duclos"
p.44. The same article was is in the first issue of "Projects in
Metal" Feb. 1988 p. 12, both are published by Home Shop Machinist
(Village Press). It's quite simple to make, the sleeve is 4 1/2"
lg. with a 1 1/2"-8 internal thread to fit the spindle, a 10 degree
taper for the 5-C collet and a pin to fit the collet keyslot. A
drawbar, threaded collet plug, collet plug wrench and sleeve spanner
wrench are also made. All are quite basic requiring only the lathe
and hand tools. A mill might help but is not required. If you can't
find the magazine or the book let me know and I'll gladly send a
copy. Duclos had so much fun making that he also made an R-8 sleeve
also with a 1 1/2"-8 thread for his lathe. It's a little longer at 5
3/16" lg. Details are in the same article. I highly recommend. Neil
(3954) |
| 5-c adapter,
heavy10 |
| Does anyone have a
drawing for an adapter to fit in the spindle of a heavy 10 for 5-c
collets? Tom
(4194) |
| In
the archives, there has been some discussion of the internal
dimensions of the spindle bore in a Heavy 10 lathe. I posted
measurements of my own 5C spindle nose adapter at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/message/2723
At that time, I stated the external measurements to be: On the collet
closer of my Heavy 10, the sleeve adapter has the following
measurements:small diameter: 1.532"large diameter: 1.630"length of
sleeve: 1.86"This is equivalent to a taper of 0.632" per foot. It is
NOT the same as a #3 Morse taper!!!(It does seem to be equivalent to a
Morse taper #5, which is specified as 0.63151" per foot.) and a
subsequent post at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/message/3623
You can double check my measurements to see if they match your own
spindle. I believe that South Bend made a mistake and printed the
wrong dimensions for the internal spindle taper. The internal
dimensions of a 5C collet closer would simply correspond to that of
a 5C collet. My own humble opinion is that it would be very hard for
a home shop machinist to bore this internal hole to be accurate and
true. If I were to make one myself, I would do the following: 1. Buy
one of the cheap import 5C collet block closers for the internal
bore and key ( www.use-enco.com has a 3-piece set for $29.95, model
number AT235-7050). Deburr, file, and/or scrape the inside of the
block as necessary (these things are cheaply made, and they might
need adjustment!). 2. Chuck a 1-inch diameter rod in the lathe
spindle, and make it true (turning down a larger rod if necessary.
3. Put a 1-inch, 5C collet into the cheapo import collet block, and
tighten it onto the rod, with the face of the collet facing towards
the headstock. 4. Turn down the outside for the collet block to the
above dimensions. Leave a little hub that will eventually protrude,
like a flange, by about 1/2" over the front of the lathe spindle. I
think that this is an economical and practical method for making a
collet adapter. Jon (4196) |
| Jon I have a
"Tooling Dimensions" sheet, SBL # 7324, dated 5/73, which shows the
spindle taper for the 10L (which it calls the 10"- 1 1/6" collet) as
0.602"/ft, which is the same as the #3 Morse taper per foot. The
same specification of .602"/ft for the 10L shows up at the back of
the 1950 edition of "How To Run a Lathe". Just for kicks I measured
the spindle adapter to #3 Morse from my 10L (which is a nice fit in
the spindle). It is longer than the 5C adapter, allowing a more
accurate reading. I get 1.631" at the big end, 1.481" at the small
end, over a 3.00" spread between the readings. This works out to
.600"/ft, which is awfully close to .602" for that sort of a
measurement technique. I therefore believe SBL's spec of .602"/ft is
correct for my 10L. My lathe is circa 1957. I can't believe they
changed this, but is yours either much older or newer? Frank (4197) |
| I don't have the
serial# with me right now, but the UMD door has a sheet on the
inside of it with a 1957 date on it. I really appreciate EVERY reply
I have had to my question, I am sure there will be more. Tom
(4201) |
| Frank, My
lathe is 1940's, so maybe that is why it measures differently. I did
put an MT5 taper (0.632"/foot) sleeve into the spindle, and it fit
snugly. I don't know why my dimensions are different from yours.
Jon (4203) |
| Tom If your
lathe is also a circa 1957 heavy 10" I'll bet dollars to donuts that
the spindle taper is also 0.602"/ft, as the spec says and my 1957
10L confirms. If you want another confirmation on age, my serial
number is 9139RKX14. Yours should be close. You only need the 4
digit number to compare ages. R is 10", and K is QC (which all heavy
10's were, AFAIK). The X in mine means "special" (and I don't have a
clue why). I expect yours will be RK (something else). The 14
apparently logs modifications within the series. BTW, if I were
going to make a collet adapter I would start with the spindle taper,
and start with some extra length to allow for several tries to get
the taper exactly right. Once I had the external taper just right I
would reduce the OD (without changing the taper setting) until the
flange at the front was close to the spindle nose. Then, with the
adapter in the spindle I would drill and then bore the through hole,
and then bore (or preferably grind) the internal 5C taper. If you
bore/grind it with the adapter in the spindle I don't think you will
have any problem getting good concentricity. Since the 5C is a
relatively steep taper I expect you could stand a modest taper error
there. In fact I would not be surprised if a tad of taper difference
were deliberately introduced in the 5C specification, to make sure
the extreme end of the 5C collet closes tightest (something like
Machinery's Handbook should tell you that stuff). Frank
(4205) |
| I purchased a
13" SB lathe that had the lever collet stuff, but only lacked the 5C
adapter. Rather than buy the expensive adapter, I decided to make
one from a number 5 Morse taper. Got one and it appeared to fit, but
way too long. I did not blue it to check the fit, but thought I
could detect a slight wiggle in the fit. Checking on the web it
seemed that people were talking about a 4-1/2 MT fitting the heavy
10s and 13" SBs. The original Morse series never had a 4-1/2, but it
now shows up in the MT series in handbooks. I was fortunate in
finding a reasonable priced SB adapter that I did blue in to make
sure it fit, so gave up the idea of building my own. But if I were
going to make one a soft 5 MT might be a good start. The 5 MT being
extra long, a person could have a number of tries with taper
machining to get it right. Then bore in place the 5C collet hole.
Walt
(4207) |
| 5C on a 9 inch
lathe |
| I have designed a
Collet closer that will use 5C collets and fit a nine inch lathe or
any lathe for that matter with a slight change to the spindle mount.
I know you can't pass through a piece bigger then 3/4" but how many
times have you need to hold a short piece over 3/4" in diameter and
the three jaw just was not close enough for the accuracy you
wanted? I know I run in to this problem every time I use my lathe.
I'm not going to make them mass production, I'm not going to make
them at all. I'm not here to sell it, I will build one work out any
bugs (if any) then send out copy's of the plans to anyone that wants
them free of charge so long as the plans are sent via Email. I
started this project because the collet closers for 3C collets are
expensive and hard to come by. This one could be built in a weekend
and only has two parts. Sorry to make you drool but I am at a point
where I am going to start building it and getting my collets
together. The 3C is a nice setup but for someone like me that has
more time then money Build it your self is the way to go. And if you
pay attention to the way you make it, It will be as accurate as your
spindle. Kerry
(5969) |
| Kerry, Always
interested in designs for 5C closers. I've got a large set of 5C
collets collecting dust and have yet to make a closer for my 9" SBL.
I'd love to make one like the "Pat Loop" front closer from HSM/PIM,
but I'll probably end up with a draw-tube design. Curious to see
what you're going to do. Keep me posted on your progress.
Paul R. (5971) |
| Kerry, Why
reinvent the wheel? Check the 5C collet adapter with a 1 1/2"-8
thread (or whatever thread you need, you cut it) for a 9" South Bend
in, "The Shop Wisdom of Philip Duclos" (p. 44) by Village Press. The
article is reprinted in, "Projects in Metal", Feb. 1988 issue p. 12.
(Also by Village Press, publishers of Home Shop Machinists). I made
one and it works great and was quite easy to make. Neil (5973) |
| That
particular collet adapter has no through capacity at all, as you
have to plug the far end of the collet for a drawbar. Collet chucks
allow pass through up to the spindle through hole diameter. If an
adapter as such as the one Duclos made meets your needs, it is
certainly the easiest way to go, I've also made the adapter. I even
cheated and got some cheap 5C collet stops that thread internally
into the collets, and use the body of that for the drawbar. For
small through hole lathes, the easiest home brew style is the one
with a nosepiece that presses against the face of the collet to
clamp, as is done on 5C H/V fixtures. Stan
(5974) |
| Kerry, As I
have said before, almost everything in life is a tradeoff between
time and money...and most of us HSMs have more time than
money and there *is* the challenge! I would love to see a copy
of the plans when you can get to it. Mario (5975) |
| For small
through hole lathes, the easiest home brew style is the one with a
nosepiece that presses against the face of the collet to clamp, as
is done on 5C H/V fixtures. Stan, Pardon my ignorance, but you lost
me on this one. " The nose piece" (of what) "presses against the
face of the collet" (front face?, back face?,) "as is done on 5C
H/V fixtures" (what's an H/V fixture horizontal/ vertical, as in
rotary table? If so, still can't visualize it!? Mario
(5976) |
| Mario;
There are horizontal/vertical 5C collet holders for use in with a
mill or in special fixturing. Imagine an angle plate with a tube
mounted perpendicular to one of the interior faces that is bored for
the 5C collet body and taper. Mount one face to the table and the
collet is horizontal, mount the other face and it's vertical. Sort
of useful for certain jobs when mounted on a rotary table. Put a
thread on the outside of the tube, and add a nosepiece (internally
threaded to match the external threads on the tube holding the
collet) that has a hole about 1.125 inches in diameter in it. This
threads down over the tube after the 5C collet is inserted. The
nosepiece tightens against the front face of the collet, pressing it
back into the tube and closing the collet. The edge of the nosepiece
hole that bears against the collet is chamfered to allow the collet
to compress rather than bind/gall to the edge of the opening. While
not as pleasing (or easy on the collet) as pulling from the rear,
pushing from the front provides the same action. As the little H/V
fixtures can be mounted with the collet facing up, there isn't a
convenient way to pull from the rear. Page 165 of the Enco catalog
has a picture (in the unlikely event my brilliant prose is less than
clear :-) )in the lower right hand corner, their model number is
235-6085. You can view it online at:
http://www.use-enco.com I think
Eagle Rock makes a nice air actuated one of these that appears to
have an air driven threaded ring that is internal, rather like a
more conventional 5C chuck. The price is quite a bit higher than the
simple manual H/V fixture however. Stan (5978) |
| Stan, Your
prose is more than clear....it's my thick head that's muddy! Now I
know exactly what you are talking about....even before looking at
the ENCO catalog! My problem was that I was trying to envision a
lathe chuck, not a milling fixture. If I finally understand, you are
saying that you can adapt the same kind of clamping arrangement to
an adapter that screws on to the lathe spindle, to hold a 5C collet
on the lathe spindle axis. That DOES sound simple to make! Mario (5979) |
| Mario; You
have it exactly. Make a length of 2 inch or so shaft to mount on the
spindle, bored for a nice fit to the register and threaded 1 1/2-8
or whatever your particular spindle nose thread is. Drill a tommy
bar hole or mill flats next. Now mount the length of shaft onto the
spindle. Drill through the shaft, bore the 5C body clearance (watch
the end of the bore, it's easy to overshoot and mangle your spindle
bore) and taper. If you leave an extra 1/4 inch or so of length to
the adapter body, you can face a bit off if you bore the taper
slightly too deep, otherwise offer up for fit with a collet often,
as a minor overshoot on a 10 degree taper translates to the collet
moving back towards the spindle by quite a bit. Cut an external
thread of some reasonably fine pitch, say 20 TPI, for 3/4 inch or
so. Unmount the adapter from the spindle using the tommy bar hole or
wrench flats (now you know why I mentioned making these early in the
process), and mount up your 3 or four jaw chuck. Make a nosepiece.
Add tommy bar holes 90 degrees apart and the whole deal is done with
one exception. Carefully drill and tap for a setscrew in the
appropriate location for the 5C keyway in the body of the adapter.
Deburr carefully where the setscrew hole breaks into the bore. Grind
down the tip of the setscrew for a nice fit in a 5C collet keyway.
thread in the setscrew until it just comes into the bore, and
install a 5C collet. Advance the setscrew until it just starts to
bind on the collet. Back it out a tad, and check with several
collets. Run another setscrew down on top of the first one and
tighten to lock the setscrew in place, or use a good grade of
loctite and let cure fully before putting the tool into service.
Project done. If you can do without the ability to pass through
stock, you just make the adapter and a drawbar. As a 5C drawbar
won't fit the through hole of a smaller lathe, you make adapters to
thread into the internal threads in the rear of a 5C collet, or buy
cheap collet stops and use the part of the stop that threads into
the collet. Match the drawbar threads to whatever method you choose
and you get to skip two threading steps, but abandon the ability to
use the pass through capability of 5C collets, at least up to the
through hole size of your spindle. If you want to be finicky and
make a really nice bit of tooling, you can bore the 5C body hole a
few tenths tight, and lap to final size. Done well, the feel will be
wonderful. A small brake hone with fresh stones can do a good job.
If you haven't done picky honing, read up on it, it's somewhat easy
to create a tapered or bell mouthed hole if you goober up the job.
Stan (5981) |
| Stan, That really is pretty straightforward. Good advice about
watching the spindle nose, and I like the idea of honing. I have a
brake cylinder hone, *and* a brand new set of stones! I think this
is my next project. Mario (5984) |
| The collet
system that I came up with is a positive stop style. This means that
once you thread the collet in the spindle adapter the collet does
not move. There is a threaded sleeve that fits on the out side of
the spindle adapter and that is used to apply pressure to the taper
on the collet by a left hand internal threads. all you do is thread
the sleeve back toward the spindle insert and thread the collet in
place then thread the sleeve forward to close the collet. done. Now
I don't claim it to be the best design or the most accurate. but for
what I need it will work until I can get a bigger lathe and a
Kennedy collet closer. I would say build it from the best steel you
can afford and maybe make the sleeve out of A2 and harden so the
taper won't wear out. So ho do you post with an attachment?
Kerry (5985) |
| Kerry That
sounds a lot like something Ty Hoffer tried last year and had a lot
of concentricity problems with it. Should take at look at his
drawings and comments on his web page before putting to much work
into it.
http://warhammer.mcc.virginia.edu/ty/7x10/collet-chuck.pdf (5986) |
| Kerry, An
interesting alternative. Now I'm going to have to make a decision;
which one to make. I'll have to give this some thought to see which
one is easiest to make and which would suit my needs best. Mario (5987) |
| I read
the concept over again and then went and looked at Ty Hoffers
similar concept. Then I went back to the books and looked at the Pat
Loop design and three others. The Loop design is just plain better
in all ways to any other 5C nose mount ever published. It has
absolutely guaranteed accuracy, is simple and easy to make
especially if you use commercial needle thrust races instead of his
machined in ball thrust setup. One thing that must be maintained is
absolute location of the taper the collet seats in and the Loop
design is the only one that does. (5989) |
| Jim, Where
can I find a copy of the Pat Loop design? I searched the files but
found nothing. Also did a Google search but only found references to
magazine articles (non of which I happen to have) Mario (5990) |
| Mario This is
the original magazine issue. PiM Jun-88 4 LOOP, PAT Make Your Own
Collet Chuck It also appears in Metalworking 1 from village press
for about $35 from them or on Ebay JWE (5992) |
| Well I did
look at that design and it is close but now I see why he had
concentricity problems there is nothing to locate the outer sleeve or
nose piece. He is relying on the threads to locate the nose piece.
This would never work because the threads would need to be so
accurate the the slightest bit of dirt would foul them. But if you
had a straight section after the threads .0005 undersize then the
sleeve then you got it. I'll draw it up and post it in the files
section I never said it would be easy to make either. But if you
watch what your doing it will work and be as accurate as your
spindle. Kerry (5993) |
| Here is a picture
of a chuck advertised recently in Model Engineers Workshop. It has a
nut on the front, that pushes the collet back into the holder to
lock. In the photo section. Pete (5997) |
| Mod of Ty's 5C
collet chuck |
| Went and looked at
Ty's concept and I modified it a bit. The collet closer is split
into 2 parts and the spindle mount is extended. My suggested mods
are: 1) extend the spindle mount nose so the 'mount' holds the
entire length of the collet straight shaft. 2) the threaded 'nut' is
shortened and a straight smaller diameter unthreaded section rides
on the 'mount' 3) the 'collet closer' itself also rides the 'mount'
and is forced to close the collet by the 'nut'. I put the drawing
into the Photo area under the name: Ty's_5C_collet_chuck_modified
Ty's original 2 piece design is the lower half of the drawing while
my modified 3 piece is the top half.
Bob (5994) |
| I posted the
collet chuck sketch. It's not dimensioned but you'll get the point.
Kerry (5995) |
| 5C Collet
Chuck? |
| Saw this 5C collet
chuck in a Smithy ad and was wondering if this design is any good,
and, if it would be a quick/cheap way to get 5C capability on my 9"
model A. No idea what the T.I.R. would be, though. The text says it
mounts to the spindle flange, so one could probably machine a 1-1/2
8TPI adapter flange easily. Comments? Paul R. (7219) |
| Might be
good. Since you'll have to make a backplate for it, you could make
it adjustable so you could dial in the TIR if the collet chuck isn't
what you want without it. Rick K. (7220) |
| Paul, I made
a collet adapter for 5-C collets, threaded 1 1'2" x 8, for my 9"
South Bend lathe from the book, "The Shop Wisdom of Philip Duclos,"
p. 44 or the same article is reprinted in the magazine, "Projects in
Metal," Feb. 88 issue p. 12. It is quite easy to make and includes a
draw bar. Due to the simple design you can not hold long work pieces
because you can not protrude through the spindle. The advantage is
that you have 1 1/8" capacity vs. 1/2" capacity with the standard 9"
South Bend 3-C collet arrangement. I now have both and it is great
to have 5-C capability on the lathe along with the 5-C holding
devices on my milling machine. Neil B. (7221) |
| Paul I get a
strange feeling this is made similar to the one that one of the guys
made a couple of years ago that wobbled all over. I still like the
one in the early PiM by Pat Loop of all the designs I have seen to
date. JWE (7222) |
| Neil This
looks interesting; went to the website, found the article in the
index but couldn't find any way of ordering it. Did I miss something
or is it unavailable ? Lew (7224) |
| Yup, Neil,
I've got the HSM and PIM books and know the article you are
referring to. I may make one of those, but for through-spindle
capacity, you can't beat a front-closer. I'm still wondering if this
particular one is any good. Paul R. (7225) |
| New England
Brass and Tool [among others] sells either a Bison or a Buck 5C
collet chuck direct-mount to a 1.5-8 spindle, with a scroll in it
like a 3-jaw. About 280 bucks last time I checked. A hundred more
for set-tru type. (7227) |
| Paul The Loop
design is a front closer and if machined on the spindle will be more
accurate than anything else ever done. JWE(7229) |
| That would be
Bison brand: http://www.brassandtool.com/ Prices you mention are
without backplate, which for the Set-Tru is $120. Rick K. (7230) |
| Paul, If you
look at the Smithy web site, the 1324 and 1340 lathe spindles are
D1-4 cam lock. The mill spindle is R8. Could not find anything on
the 1220. Cannot tell by the picture in the ad how it mounts. Would
probably require you making some sort of interface if you went for
it. I think there are better alternatives. Fred (7233) |
| James How can I
obtain a drawing of that design? Clint (7234) |
| Clint This
guy always has them up for sale on Ebay or you can get it from
Village Press. This is the one that has the Loop closer and some
other neat stuff. Over the last couple of years I have gotten all
but two of the books a couple every year as presents to me. JWE (7237) |
| JWE, The one
you're thinking of unscrews the taper part to close the collet. It
looks like this one bears down on the front of the collet to force
it into the fixed taper. Yes, you are right that the Pat Loop front
closer is the best HSM version. I'm reluctant to spend ~$300.00 for
the Bison at this point, and was curious about the (gag) Smithy.
Paul R. (7239) |
| James OK, I
have that one. I did not know that was the drawing you were talking
about, I have had that book for 6 months and just the other day had
time to sit and look thru it, seen the collet article then.
Clint (7240) |
| Lew, Give me
your address or Fax number and I'll either mail or fax you a copy.
Neil B. (7241) |
| The
only problem is Village Press never continued the Metalworking
series books. There is only the one. I have it and also the 7
Projects books. I am a prolific gatherer of the printed material.
Fred (7250) |
| Fred Then how
come I have #1 + #2 + #3 + seven JWE
(7253) |
| James I sure
would like to find 2 and 3. Clint (7260) |
| James,
Actually I think you misinterpreted my e-mail. The Metal Working
volume, of which the produced only one, was from the best in
Projects in Metal for the years 1988-1989. The Projects volumes were
the best of the Home Shop Machinist of which there are 7. The first
one printed in 87, the last one in 97. I too have them all.
Fred (7262) |
| Fred Are we
talking about the Home Shop Machinist - Metalworking series? There
are volumes 1 through 3. Which one should I start with? John (7264) |
| Fred;
There are 3 volumes in the Metalworking series, volume one is from
1988 and 1989, volume three is from 92 and 93. Volume two is around
here somewhere or at a neighbors, but I'll take a wild guess that it
covers '90 and '91 ;-) These volumes are in addition to the current
7 volumes in the Projects series and the six Shop Wisdom series
(three of Rudy Kouhoupt, one of Frank McLean, one of Phillip Duclos,
and Two Shop Masters - the final compilation of Frank McLean and
Phillip Duclos work). The October/November issue of Machinists
Workshop shows the Metalworking series at the bottom of the center
column or page 48, so all three volumes are still available.
Stan (7265) |
| Enough
already ;-) I've got the 7 HSM plus the three PIM. Here's the first
page from volume 3. Paul R. (7266) |
| Yes, that is
the book. I do not know that I can really recommend any one over
another. I only have volume 1. Since the books are what the
publisher considered the best of Home Shop Machinist during those
periods and since I have all the magazines I never got any more. If
you do not have the magazines that cover those periods then either
or all three would be a good buy. They are $39.00 each from Village
Press. Fred (7267) |
| Stan, I
stand corrected. Since I have all the issues of the magazine I did
not get Metal Working past volume 1. Fred
(7268) |
| Clint The
same link I gave you yesterday and check his other auctions or once
again Village Press, in stock and ready to ship on your order from
all locations. JWE (7276) |
| Paul, I
threw the Smithy chuck in the trash about a year ago, and have since
been using the Bison which is a real pleasure. Reluctant to say much
more in a public forum, other than you get what you pay for. Feel
free to email me direct for more info. Regards, Al
(7277) |
| John All
three if you have the money, otherwise starting with one all three
and then all seven of the projects series. If you do not get them
you will never forgive yourself. (7278) |
| Al,
If you're talking about the currently advertised collet chuck, no need
to say any more. I guess I'll continue with my plans to make the Phil
Duclos drawbar closer to start with, then maybe work on the Pat Loop
front closer someday. Interesting and stimulating discussion on this
one. Thanks P.S. I'm glad I have the seven "Projects" books as well as
the three "Projects In Metal" ones. I seem to be looking through them
all the time. I hope they come out with more for those of us who got a
late start with HSM and MW! Paul R. (7281) |
| James How do
you rate these as compared to the Shop Wisdom books. I'll put them
all on my Xmas wish list but I don't think my significant other will
spring for them all at once. John
(7293) |
| John They are
on the same level as got to haves. I bought all the VP books except
for two of the shop wisdom ones 4 at a time when I could. Then I
found and bought a complete collection from an estate of Live Steam,
HSM and PiM/MW from start to the end of 1999. This keeps me supplied
with material when needed as soon as I can finish the index files so
i can find things. For my ME collection I have a fairly good working
set of indexes now from 1939 to 1999 and can usually find things
there fairly rapidly. Now I need to finish up the other indexes so I
can find things in them. (7297) |
| James, Would
not the article index on the HSM web site work just as well for you
and save lots of work in the process? I find the ability to search
by subject, author, or issue pretty easy. Fred (7298) |
| Fred Have you
used my Model Engineer index with its search by category and author,
by author and title or keyword search on title field. The comment
field will also allow me to mention anthology books that the article
is included in as well. They are using a very simple flat file
system that must be laid out as to how it displays while mine uses
Microsoft Access which is fully relational. It really is like the
difference between a bicycle and a car in performance. The one I am
working on combines Modeltec, Live Steam, HSM and PiM/MW and will be
a single database where you will be able to find all articles by a
certain author or all articles in a defined category. (7299) |
| 5c collet stop |
| I had always thought that the internal threads were
used for some kind of alternative draw bar. Now that I know how they
are used, I have to have one. Does anyone have a drawing or picture
of a stop to fit 5c collets that works really well? Or are they all
as simple as I can imagine, just a threaded plug with a threaded
rod/lock nut down the center? Ed (11478) |
| The current
Enco catalog has several models ( pics) of 5C collet stops ranging
in price from $6 for a simple solid adjustable to $18 for a
universal set which converts to Ejector type. Bernard (11481) |
| Yep pretty much
that simple. Threaded plug with tap hole in center and lock nuts and
don't for get to make some pieces that fit on the end to add support
to parts with large through holes. Kerry (11483) |
| Bernard The cheap
one is what most production shops use and is solid and reliable.
The$18 one is a bad joke for a collet stop but does make a nice
paper weight if you can keep it from rolling off the desk. I have a
simple drawing of one I designed and we use in 4C collets on one of
our custom production machines with a custom air closer. These
piston air closers are what I am planning to replace with nose mount
3C lever closers later this year operated with air cylinders to cut
weight and reduce size. JWE (11485) |
| South Bend - 5,
Collet 1" to 1/64" |
| I have come
across original collet set for South Bend Lathes. Collets are marked
as "SOUTH BEND - 5" Sizes are 1" to 1/64", individually packed in
plastic box. Unused. I would appreciate if you guys can help me with
current trading value for the above. Poi
(12950) |
| It would
be helpful if you identified the type of collets you have. 5C, 3C,
6K etc. The price can vary. I'm not sure if South Bend made/sold 5C
collets. I think the 5Cs would fetch the least around $5-7.50, maybe
$10 on a very good day. There are other makers and import 5C collets
that drive down the price. If 3C the price I would ask is around
$10-15 per collet. I think dealers get $15-18 per collet used
condition. Its about the same with 6K. I haven't found anyone
making 6K collets except on special order (read big bucks). I have
bought more than a few off E-Bay. They are mainly metric. Some I got
for under $5, others between $10-15. I think I paid $75 or so for a
set of 8 6K collets used condition in fractional size. Tom (12951) |
| The collets are just marked "SOUTH BEND - 5" and then the size. The
plastic case has got stamps from South Bend. This stuff must be
about 25 to 30 years old, am not very sure. Please how do I figure
out the right type. Poi. (12954) |
| Measure
the diameter of the body. It should give a good indication of type.
On the Logan website there are specifications for dimensions for the
various types of collets. I do think SB made some 3AT and such. If
the body diameter is roughly 1-3/8 inches (not too sure, but say
over 1 inch) then its probably a 5C. Tom (12956) |
| You can
compare the dimensions of the collet to:
http://loganact.com/tips/collet.htm
Since these are marked "5" and are sized from 1" down, I suspect
they are 5-C. BTW, the body of the 5-C is 1.25". Scott
Logan (12960) |
| The
"South Bend 5" is definitely a 5C collet. Many of the collets
supplied by SB with my SB heavy 10 when it was new in 1957 are
marked "South bend 5", and interchange exactly with later collets
marked 5C, including those from other suppliers. Your guess at the
age may actually be a bit low. I would guess 40-50. I would agree
with Tom that something in the $5 range is as good a guess as any.
You can get some idea by checking Ebay "completed sales", searching
for 5C collets". You may have some trouble getting $5 x the total
number of collets you have, since buyers may expect some discount
for buying the whole set. Of course if you try to sell them
individually, some will sell and others won't, or at least not for
the same price. The plastic boxes add some value. I have seen people
selling those without collets for perhaps $1 each or more. It is my
understanding that SB's collets were in fact made by Hardinge. If you
can confirm that the Hardinge name should add a bit of value. I
would say 5C in the description, not just 5 (many search for "5C
collets"), and if you can confirm it, say something like "South Bend
5C collets by Hardinge", to catch those who search for Hardinge as
well. In the text mention the boxes. Frank
(12974) |
| For the most
part collets are marked with the manufacturer's name, the type, and
the size. I say for the most part because there are many different
manufacturers out there and some are made by the individual
machinists. I bought my 9C with 12 collets. They were made by at
least five different manufacturers - likely six as one is completely
unmarked. All of the 11 marked collets have both the type and size
on them. As for type markings, my group includes 1A, 3, 3C, and 3SB.
I haven't tried any of them yet but they all apparently fit. The 1As
are all about 1/8" shorter than the 3s and there are also minor
variations in length in each group. I also have a set of import R8
collets for the mill-drill. I purchased these as a set and all of
them are marked with the size and type. If you have any unmarked
collets and no way to match them to a marked one or a collet
adapter, then Machinery's Handbook (and other sources) list tables
of the various collet series and their specs. The 26th Edition lists
three pages of collet specs. That's more than I will ever want to
know about collets. Paul A. (12997) |
| 5C Collet
question |
| Not having a collet closer or chuck for my SB 13 yet but
having acquired some collets, how do you tell if they are 5C, 3C,
etc? Mike (14793) |
| See:
http://loganact.com/tips/collet.htm Scott
Logan (14795) |
| They are
generally marked (etched) on the face along with the size. 5C
collets are 1.25" diameter. Measure the spindle bore of your lathe
to determine what size collet you can use. JP (14798) |
| 5C collets and
10 Heavy |
| I got my
wife to take me to our BusyBee store yesterday (that's a metalworking
store here in Canada). I don't what got into her but I had to see
some doctors in the city of London and she just let me go nuts in
the shop afterwards.:-). I got about $1200US in goodies, that's
unheard of for her .Anyway I got a super deal on some new 5C
collets($6 each) or so. So now I will have to find a way to put them
into my spindle for the Heavy 10.I don't have any info on these
things but did have a chance to use some at work for a day so know
what they can be used for. They were great to hold the rod I was
turning there. (my boss won't let me run the lathe anymore because of
my medical problems:-( ) My wife was so impressed with how I did
that one day she suggested I get my own metal lathe and that is how
I ended up here. Anyway I think I need a proper sleeve for the
spindle and a drawbar? The collets have a 1.25"X 20 thread .I think
I know how a drawbar works but could use some of the groups guidance
AGAIN ha ha. This will have to be cheap since I blew everything at
the store. They don't carry the drawbars or anything for a Southbend. One other thing, I found a micrometer stop on an old
scrapped out lathe at work and rescued it. It fits my 10" with just a
bit of fiddling around. I hope to clean it up and paint it today. I
think I will paint it red so I remember it's there:-) I'm going to
tap the apron on the carriage to take some nice oil cups I rescued
as well. They are the ones near the top of the apron on each
end. Right now there are just brass tubes sticking out there where
they were damaged I guess. Is there any reason I shouldn't drill and
pipe tap them for the new cups? I will use a proper 3/8"pipe tap. I
know there is a small extender tube on the inside wall of the apron
and will attach those to the new cups before threading them in as
well. Tom(16532) |
| Looks like you owe the lady a night out and breakfast in bed for a
week. The collet attachment consists of a spindle nut, sleeve and
drawbar. The spindle nut is to remove the sleeve when finished and
to protect the threads, the sleeve adapts the spindle taper to the
5C collet profile. This is a precision cut part and a bit pricey.
Same parts for most size laths in this family, heavy 10, 13 etc. The
drawbar is a tube 1 3/8" OD with the collet matching threads cut
internally on one end. Scott Logan may sell this part. Drawbars are
different lengths for different machines. The other end has a thrust
bearing and either a handwheel or lever assembly. You can find the
whole setup used from time to time. Someone on this list had a
complete setup for sale a while back. I paid $200 for mine
(handwheel type) but I have seen them for less. Oilers are usually
1/8" pipe thread (3/8 actual) or they can be a press fit. If you use
threaded extender tubes don't use the galvanized ones use plain iron
or brass. JP (16533) |
| JP, I
will have to keep checking the stuff on ebay I guess. Just so I know
just what to look for what is it likely to be called? I am very
pleased with my wife as well. Tom (16554) |
| Grizzly 5-C
collets |
| Anyone on the list
ever purchase a 15 piece 5-C collet set from Grizzly Tool? Off hand
I can't recall the sizes. If so, what's your overall opinion of the
quality? William E. (19785) |
| Here's my 5C collet
story. I needed a collet set but don't like buying the Chinese stuff
if I can avoid it. However, a full set of "real" collets (Hardinge
or Royal) were out of my price range. So I got the brain storm to go
mid range and bought a set of Bison collets as their chucks are not
too bad. However the Bison collets were a disappointment. Several of
them were too tight in my collet closer, and measuring them showed
them to be a little out of spec. It turns out other Bison users have
also had this problem. In addition, the run out was marginal on some
of the collets. Enco was pretty good about taking them back so I
decided to try a set of the Enco "house brand" (Chinese) collets.
Since they were so much cheaper and on sale, I decided to get the
complete 64 piece set. They turned out to be ok, they fit the collet
closer better and the runout wasn't too bad. Two of them out of the
set had nicked up threads but Enco replaced those with no hassle.
For the few sizes I use a lot I got Hardinge collets, but its nice
having a full set and I'm using them even more than I thought I
would. So I recommend taking a took at the Enco sets. I have also
heard people being happy with the Grizzly sets. Paul
(19786) |
| William, I
haven't purchased a SET, but have purchased 7 or 8 of the individual
5C collets from Grizzly. They have all been good for the price, but
a light wire brushing of the threads was needed on several, there
were slight burrs and rough spots on them. TIR is well under a thou
on all the ones I have, I think all are well under half a thou. I
checked them once around 6 years ago, liked what I saw, and never
wrote down the exact numbers. I think one had a burr caught in one
of the compression slots, might have been a different brand though.
Stan (19789) |
| 5c collet
adapter or chuck? |
| By luck I picked up
a full set of 5c collets. I presently use the 3c system on my 1947,
9"X48" SBL Model A . Wonder if I should buy a Bison chuck or is
there and easier way on the pocket book to go?
(22587) |
| Since
your spindle is too small to accept the required drawbar, your best
bet, and perhaps your only choice, is to use a front mounted chuck.
In my opinion, the best of these, considering both cost and quality,
is the Bison. Both a standard mount and an "Adjust-Tru" type
mount for maximum accuracy are available. Scott
S. Logan (22589) |
|
http://lathemaster.com/EAGLE%205C%20COLLET%20CHUCKS.htm
He also carries an "adjust true" Bison style clone as well. He
claims .001 TIR for this chuck, with Asian 5c's the one I bought
from him is under .001 and I'm very satisfied with it for the price.
Mark (22597) |
| There's one
shown in Home Shop Machinist this month, its a kit. RC (22598) |
| Metal Lathe
accessories, on the web, has a kit, plans and castings that you
finish. Price is easier on the wallet than a finished one. All of
their accessory kits are for the 9" SB lathe and can be made on one.
JP (22605) |
| In this issue
of The Home Shop Machinist they show the basics to build the MLA
collet chuck. Bob (22606) |
| I finished my
5C collet set up |
| I
made a 5c Collet setup for my south bend 14" it works great. I still
need to make a nice hand wheel for it, not sure if I will use a nice
piece of cherrywood or make it out of aluminum, I have been able to
draw the collet in fine with the hub. I paid $40.00 for the backing
plate the rest was stock just taking up space. It took about 4 hours to
cut the collet sleeve, but it is dead on. (25722) |
| Outstanding job ! I
have been wanting to do something like that for my 13". Dee (25723) |
| NICE JOB! It
deserves a cherry hand wheel. Bruce (25726) |
| I agree too, very
nice! Did you harden the adapter at all? Jim (25741) |
