| Lubricating systems and parting
off (Sep 23, 2003) |
Cooling/lubrication system
(Dec 2, 2004) |
| Looking to Buy Small Coolant Tank
(May 17, 2004) |
Piping for coolant (Dec
30, 2004) |
| |
| Lubricating systems and parting
off |
| Starting with about
zero experience, I have managed to get the parting operation to
work. I was successful only after I started 1) keeping the slot
flooded (continuously wet) with lubricant, and 2) keeping the chip
out of the slot. It didn't seem to matter too much what lube I used.
Casey's Bore Solvent even worked. Most importantly, it was in a
bottle that permitted dripping/squirting into the slot. The "chip"
came out as a continuous ribbon, which I pulled clear. This was a
very manual process. What do others do? What lubricant systems work?
How do you all keep the chips from clogging the slot? (14143) |
| Pulling chips or continuous ribbon
swarf, is one of the most dangerous things to do on a lathe...not to
be recommended! Bad cuts, lost fingers, or even a hand pulled onto
the chuck. Len (14144) |
| I use Cool Tool II
and a 1" brush to keep things going. The brush gives the chip some
encouragement, and delivers the oil at the same time. RC (14145) |
| Does your parting tool feature a chip
breaker on it? Such a breaker which is a small arcing relief from
cutting edge towards back of tool will make cuttings curl tight and
break off . Ron (14148) |
| I use a toothbrush
dipped in a sulpherized pipe thread cutting oil like Ridgid. One dip
with the brush held on top of the cut will due for a 1" crs. It
saves oil and very little mess to clean up. By far the best
improvement in cutting off is the use of a spring tool like
Armstrong. They are very pricy ( check MSC) but cheap on e-bay once
in a while because most people don't know what they are for. The
spring tool I use for thread cutting works great. Walt (14156) |
| Do you run your machine in Back Gear
position at the slowest speed? That is the way I do a cut off and I
use cutting oil applied with a 1 in. paint brush. This takes minimum
fluid with minimum mess. Perry (14166) |
| I appreciate all
the responses to my questions. (I also fully appreciate the concern
for the safety of pulling the continuous chip from the cut. It was a
very tender ribbon, or I would not have considered it, and the
pulling was assisted by a toothbrush. Nevertheless, it was my
concern for this activity that spawned the question.) I was using an
acid brush to apply lubricant. This worked when I was parting 1"
stock. When I parted 3" stock, the brush would not reach into the
narrow slot. I tried a narrow artist's brush, but that did not carry
much lube, and required the uncomfortable practice of delicately
holding the brush down in the slot. I did not have a chip breaker.
The tool was flat. My observation was that rolls of chip would form.
At times they were fairly loose (1/2" dia). Other times the chip was
very tight. In either case, particularly the tight chip, they did
not expel from the slot very well. Can I expect that a chip breaker
will make chips that expel? Does compressed air help? Could a siphon
type spray lube provide both air to move the chip and lube? I assume
you always get a lot of air with a siphon type lube. (14169) |
| I made my own lube pump from a little
pump that was originally in a table-top water fountain, and medical
tubing that has a nice turn-cock valve in it. My suds tray is a 4ft
x 15" plastic tray from a garden centre, originally intended as a
water tray for seed trays. That has a normal sink plug outlet cut at
one end and the suds drop to a can under that where the pump returns
it. Total cost under œ10 (I got the fountain at a car boot sale).
Len (14170) |
| Looking to Buy Small Coolant Tank |
| Anyone know where I
can purchase small (1-3 Gallon) plastic or otherwise coolant tank
that a small submersible coolant pump could be put into? I have an
Atlas MFC mill that I have sold and buyer would like to be able to
use coolant on it. Table is drilled for coolant return. There is a
company on Ebay called thewebworks that has the exact item I need (
EBay item # 3816122730 ) but after reading his feedback it sounds
like not only does he sell items he does not have in stock but he is
also one of the worst shippers on Ebay. Also seems like once he has
your moolah he does not respond to Emails. Ron (19110) |
| I have one that came from South Bend
Lathe. Hutch
(19111) |
| The style tank that
you saw on E-bay was identical as the one sold by Harbor Freight for
cheaper than the final selling price (on E-bay). I tried to find it
again at Harbor Freight for you, but couldn't find it. Have you
considered modifying a 3.5 gallon parts cleaner such as Harbor
Freight's number 38347-3VGA (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?
itemnumber=38347)? You can also find them at auto parts stores. I've
been considering them both for a cheap 4x6 bandsaw that I've
modified. I've read where neither type of tank has a pump that
handles fluids with very much viscosity, so another pump may be
required. Dave
(19120) |
| Update on Harbor Freight Coolant Pump
Kit is that it still is available at $39.99 but is back-ordered
until June 4. Spoke with a person in their Customer Service. Thanks
to all that chimed in with their ideas and help. Ron (19160) |
| Cooling/lubrication system |
| Has anyone set up a
recirculating coolant system and if so, any specific parts or model
and safe coolant for a 10k. In the early '70s I worked a summer as a
toolmaker and I recall that one of the sb's was set up for coolant.
ludwig (22505) |
| On a related
note... Has anyone had experience with a "mister". My FIL suggested
it. He used to run Swiss screw machines. Supposedly, only a small
mist of coolant is used. The unit should be adaptable to any
machine. I'm considering having my BIL keep an eye out for one. Mike
Snip Has anyone set up a recirculation coolant system and if so, any
BR Mike
(22518) |
| There was a big
thread on the mill/drill group that I am on and the general opinion
was that they did work well BUT you need some way to exhaust the
mist from the work area. If you just let it float around it
condenses on everything including the inside of your lungs. Water
would be safe for you but bad for the machinery, and anything that
you add that would aid cooling and prevent rust is not good to
breathe. Mike (22521) |
| I used a mister
with water soluble cutting oil on my vertical mill and didn't like
it. If I was using a vise, it forced me to remove the vise and super
clean it and the table under it after every use, otherwise corrosion
would occur. Also, if you mixed up a batch, after a few weeks of
sitting there, things would grow in it. Compressed air-driven
misters are available inexpensively from ENCO and Wholesale Tool.
Two other problems with the compressed air-driven misters is their
sensitivity to air pressure and contaminants. You really need to
have a regulator on their air supply and a decent wire mesh filter
on the suction line - the one it comes with is too coarse a mesh,
IMO. My opinion? Worth the trouble in a production shop but not in a
home shop. Gave up on it and now just brush normal cutting oil on as
needed or use a pump oiler. Ditto on the lathe. Recirculating
systems are available from all the tool vendors though they seem a
little pricey to me. You can rig up your own easily enough. But you
really have to have a good pan and backsplash to use it on the
lathe, don't you? Ed (22524) |
| I rigged up my own
with a five foot plastic tray that was originally intended as a
water tray for 5 separate seed planting trays. I bored it for an
ordinary domestic sink plug fitting, and had a can underneath. I
used a small water pump from one of those table sized water feature
things. The arrangement worked very well and simply, and the can was
easily taken out to remove sludge and chips. I delivered the coolant
via aquarium air pipe and plastic regulator tap, and had that
mounted on a 1/8"thick brazing rod post stuck in a pot magnet, which
I could shift around to a convenient place to deliver the coolant.
The whole lot cost me less than œ10, ($16) plus the otherwise
redundant pump. Len (22529) |
| I suspect that very
few of us run our lathes hard enough to justify a proper cooling
system so we don't really need volume. Under lighter use having a
small amount of lubricant dropped in just the right place is usually
enough so a simple drip feed from a carefully positioned stalk can
be sufficient. That way we can afford to use pure lubricant avoiding
the mess and biological problems inseparable from pump fed suds. A
can, a tap and some sort of flexi position thingy to hold the outlet
so the drips fall right where the cutting tool is about to go works
fine. One day I'll get round to setting mine up again instead of
brushing'n squirting. True misting systems can be a right PIA. The
stuff gets everywhere. I'd never even though about the health
hazard. A self build variant published several times in the UK model
engineering press working much like a cheap air-brush seems rather
safer and less messy as the droplets are larger and the distribution
region smaller. Essentially a very low pressure air-stream passes
over a small jet fitted to the top of a small oil container with a
pipe leading down into the oil. The thing is set-up to give a very
narrow spray of oil onto the cutting region. Said to work well,
especially when parting off, due to positive delivery of small lube
droplets but the drawing photos suggest that the assembly tends to
get in the way. Clive (22542) |
| My thought was very
similar and like the setup I used in the early 70's with a small
directable nozzle providing a low flow of lubricant directly on the
work piece. there should be very little splatter and could certainly
be built with a pan/reservoir screen and small submersible pump to a
flow control valve. I was wondering if there was an available "kit"
for this vs. assembling the appropriate parts. BTW- I would think
that such a constant flow system would solve the knurling concerns
of the recent posting. Ludwig (22544) |
|
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2226
JWE (22559) |
| I have been looking
through the file section of the SouthBendLathePix page at the H. S.
Howlett article in a 1942 Model Engineer. The story is about
adding a handwheel to the end of a leadscrew but at the end of the
article there is a picture of the lathe with the handwheel in place
that also shows some sort of fluid tank mounted. Looks very
interesting! Does anyone know if that was covered in a previous
article in that series? Roy
(22563) |
| Roy, that link
don't work(?). Here's a link to the file.:
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/SouthBendLathePix/files/
I gather that the author is English and the tank is a a "suds" drip
feed. In 'merican, that's a cutting fluid drip feeder mounted on a
post and having a valve on the bottom that you can attach a tube
positioned over the work to drip onto. Hard to make it out in the
pic. RichD (22564) |
| Rich, Thanks for
posting the working link, I guess pointing to a specific file
doesn't work in a situation where you have to sign in first. I
suspected that it was some sort of drip tank. It looks well made if
a bit cumbersome. I was curious about how the rod holding it was
mounted and thought since the handwheel article was the last of a
series of nine that the tank might have been covered in one of the
previous eight articles. I like reading the old stuff, some very
innovative ideas and even though that article was published in March
of 1942, I'm sure it was actually written before anyone was thinking
of Pearl Harbor. Roy(22565) |
| Piping for
coolant |
| My P W
lathe has a coolant pump attached but no piping to the chuck. There
is a pipe thread port on the top of the pump housing. I guess I can
run water pipe for a ways for rigidity, but I assume the piping that
delivers the coolant to the workpiece should be small diameter, and
perhaps flexible? What is a good setup for the piping that delivers
the coolant to the workpiece? Is it feasible to make a "drip" system
with an in-line valve, and not damage the pump? My lathe manual
recommends lard oil for many types of cutting, and it is available
from McMaster-Carr. Any thoughts about lard oil? It is a petroleum
product, I am told. Wade
(23540) |
| Check into
the lard oil before you buy it. It sounds like the bio-type fluids
we used to use in our shop. They worked fine but tended to get funky
(smelly) with time because bacteria would grow in them. You had to
change them out frequently because they got so nasty. On the plus
side they were relatively cheap and cleaned up easily. Personally I
wouldn't want them in my shop. I would think a little soft copper
would be the easiest thing you could run for the coolant. Most
coolant pumps I've seen have valves in line to adjust the flow. The
pumps are usually rotary vane rubber impeller pumps. The can handle
the back pressure without damage. (23542) |
| Coolant is water
based and needs something that will mix well enough to be carried in
the pumped water. Lard oil goes back before synthetic oils. Lard oil
can be gotten from your local butcher, when you might have to send
away for something different. Today's coolants are lower in cost,
have rust preventatives and such so are much better alternatives.
The smell comes from anaerobic bacteria. that stuff that lives
without free oxygen. aerobic bacterial is that stuff that lives with
extra free oxygen. With the oil sitting on the top and no
circulation, the bacteria thrives. once you turn on the pump, the
air is mixed in and the bacteria starts to die. Some newer oils have
anti-bacteria stuff to prevent it. A fish tank air bubbler will do
the same thing. Bad smelling is not automatically bad use. As far as
the tubing goes, we used to use regular garden hose and copper with
hose clamps. There should be a place on the carriage to which you
can mount an arm to hold the hose. And, your choices are a simple
valve to regulate flow or just let it flood. As far as the pump is
concerned, the pump energy use is somewhat dependant on work
performed. by restricting the flow, the power use will decrease
along with the volume of coolant. Dave (23544) |
| Dave, So what IS
the best all-around synthetic for turning? Milling as well? My
experience with water-soluble oil (from a friend's machine shop)
was that I got a lot of rust on my B'port when I used it in a
mister. Really worked well though. George(23550) |
| Wade, I am assuming
that Lard Oil is an organic oil, made from the rendering of fat from
animals. Brian (23553) |
| Oh yeah, sorry, The
piping you are looking for is a flexible metal type of stuff, and if
I remember correctly Grizzly, HF, and others sell the stuff in
several lengths with a nozzle attached on one end. Brian (23554) |
