| SB Tailstock Dauber (Mar
20, 2002) |
Tailstock Dauber (Sep 20,
2003) |
| Tailstock daub stick (Mar
30, 2003) |
White Lead? (Jan 1, 2005) |
| |
| SB Tailstock Dauber |
| I want to thank
everyone that responded to my Query on the hole on the Tail Stock of
the SB 9" lathe. I never would have thought that up. I have an old
Pop. Mech. book that was put out in the 40's and it shows how to
grind the groove in the Dead Center for a dispensing route for the
Lube, but I still would never have gotten the two together. I copied
a print of the Dauber in the files, and plan to put the Tail Stock
back in original dress. Now what am I going to do with the Chuck Key
when drilling Center holes? I guess I'll have to get a
Machinists Apron and Keep it in a Pocket. Benny (3666) |
| My 9 inch has the original little
brass dauber. I always thought it was a place to put oil that was
ported to the tail stock ram. I will be glad to photo and or measure
it if anyone is interested. Dallas Shell The hole is for the white
lead lube for a dead center. The lathes came with a little (wooden?
Some synthetic? Micarta? whatever) dauber that plugged the hole.
Looked sort of like a cribbage peg with a ball end. The tip that
goes down into the hole was used to apply the lube to the dead
center (3669) |
| I have uploaded a
photo of the original part. I apologize for the resolution, I have a
cheap camera. Dallas Shell (3693) |
| Dallas, I got the picture. Thanks so much. What material was used Brass maybe ? Benny (3694) |
| Here is one. I make
them out of stainless. Hole in the end retains the oil. (3695) |
| Benny, The dauber
is made out of brass, it has a good finish on it so it was probably
turned or if it was cast it was well finished and polished. My part
has probably never been cleaned up, it has a very dark patina like
old brass gets. Dallas Dallas, I got the picture...Thanks so
much. What material was used Brass maybe? (3699) |
| Dallas, I
figured it was brass after reading about it in a 1934 reprint of a
South Bend lathe Manual, but never knew what they were talking
about, as they never showed a picture of it. Now that I know what it
is, I can identify the round knob in about 10 - 15 different
pictures I have of a Tailstock. Thanks for the help. Do you ever
get on 3.963 or 4228.5? Benny (3706) |
| Thanks to Dallas
Shell and the photo that he posted last week, I finally remembered
what the dauber looked like on a SB lathe. The last time that I paid
any attention to and used one with white lead was back in 1969 in a
college machine shop class on a SB Heavy 10. All of the South Bends
that I have had since were missing the daubers, but it didn't matter
because I had them equipped with lives centers anyway and at that
particular stage of my life I was more into function rather that
restoration and function. The only reason that I can remember the
year is that I still have and regularly use my machinists vice that
I made from scratch in that class and on which we had to stamp our
name and the year. As a hobby, I am putting the finishing touches on
the restoration of my old 16/24 SB which I purchased about 6 months
ago and I wanted it to have an original looking dauber so I've been
thinking (usually dangerous maneuver) for quite some time about
making one and modifying it into an oiler as it's dauber was missing
also, but I couldn't remember how the thing was shaped. Armed with
the remembrance of what one looked like and what they were made of
(again thanks to Dallas) I marched out to my shed and whittled one
out on my old 1918 Rivett 608 Lathe and cleaned out the new paint in
the original dauber hole of the SB and filled her with machine oil
and now have something functional that will deposit approximately
.25 cc of oil when and where needed either in a direct stream or
approximately 10 large drops all controlled by the tip of the finger
over the "vent" hole. Someone else in the group had mentioned a hole
in one and most of us have and use very small straws we keep around
the shop for a small one or two drop application of a fluid that
isn't ordinarily kept in a usable dispenser. This modification is
very low tech. and based on the old science class demonstration we
have all had of fluid dynamics / atmospheric pressure of the finger
over the end of the straw pulling the column of fluid out of a
beaker illustration. I know that this is an almost laughable small
amount of oil, but I got to thinking that I wanted it to serve some
function other than being ornamental and sometimes a small amount of
oil is all that is needed, hence the modification. This particular
dauber was made to the specs of my lathe, which has a .406 ID dauber
hole, that is 1.650 deep. Even with a smaller hole that is shallower
as is probably the case on a 9" SB, one can experiment with the stem
OD and ID to come up with something comparable or design one for
their particular oil viscosity needs. I can post digital photos on
the site with dimensions more explanation on drill sizes used etc.
if anyone is interested. God Bless, (are we still allowed to say
that in the US?) Dan 16_24 9" 608 Rivett (low - maintenance) 16/24 x
6 South Bend (low - maintenance) Wife of almost 31 years
(temperamental / high maintenance -1948 model - didn't come with
operator's manual) Note: If anyone locates one (operator's manual
– not wife) I would probably swap both lathes and even give a
little boot.
(3756) |
| Tailstock daub
stick |
| A couple of weeks
ago, I found a scan of the daub stick in the picture files of this
site. I printed out a copy, as it seemed to be a good straight on
shot. Had one of my drafting students measure the print. He drafted
it to that size in AutoCAD, with no regard to sizes, except to the
proportions he was shown. Then he scaled the drawing so that the
location spigot was 1.00 diameter. On returning home, I measured my
daub stick hole to accept .311 diameter. The student then scaled
drawing down by factor of .311. We then dimensioned the drawing, and
made minor adjustments to the features so that everything came up to
nicer numbers. I doubt that South Bend was out to make trouble of
this little piece! The drawing looks good, and I plan to post it as
soon as I have access to it at work tomorrow. What format would be
convenient? It is an AutoCAD DWG file. Dave
(10008) |
| Dave, please make
the DXF available, but save it as R12 as this is the most compatible
to other programs. I use Acad R14 exclusively. A great program. As
an alternative do a screen copy and crop/save as a .GIF in an image
program to 16 colors (2 colors looses too much definition). RichD
(10009) |
| I have a fully
dimensioned drawing of the daub stick, saved in DXF format(140K)
ready to download to our files folder, but I guess it's reached a
30MB maximum. Anyway, I can't download. Any suggestions? (10028) |
| E-mail it to me and
I'll make it available to download from my website, this will work
untill theres a place if anyone wants to see it. The Wood Dragon
(10031) |
| The secondary group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SouthBendLathePix/files/ Has tons of
room in files: 1296 Kb used of 20480 Kb total (10046) |
| Tailstock
Dauber |
| What's a tailstock dauber and what's it used for? Does
anyone know the Acme thread size for a 9c sb? Rick (14075) |
| A dauber is a
gadget similar to the top of a merthiolate/mercurochrome bottle that
fit into a hole on top of the tailstock, and was used to daub
red-lead or white-lead into the pilot-hole you drilled into your
material for the dead-center to ride in. Acme thread? Depends on
which one you mean; the cross-feed is 7/16-10 LH, and the lead-screw
is, I believe, 3/4-8 RH, but would have to check that one. Johnny (14076) |
| A tailstock dauber
is a small pin with a stubby handle on it. Some tailstocks have a
small well bored into them and the dauber sits it it. The well is
filled with a white lead paste (or was it red lead?) that was used
as lubricant for the tips of centers (non-rotating ones). Pretty
convenient to have right next to the center! The white lead worked
pretty well, but they also made a compounded semi-synthetic
tailstock center lubricant that came in a tube that worked OK too. I
don't think that was applied with the dauber. Cool if you still have
a dauber - most were lost Frank (14077) |
| Take a look
at the top picture here:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/index.html
the dauber is the shiny knob at the front end of the tailstock in
the picture. Len (14080) |
| You can see the
tailstock dauber on the pictures in "How to Run a Lathe' in the
first part of the book. My lathe has a lead well screwed into the
headstock by the rear spindle bearing. I found the wire dauber stuck
to the inside of the headstock in the spilled and dried white lead.
I couldn't figure out what the thing (lead well) was until you posted
this message and I cleaned out the headstock and found the wire
dauber. JP (14121) |
| White Lead? |
| Several years ago
at a machine shop auction I bought a "lot" of stuff that included
several large coffee cans and quart jars of what I was told is white
lead. I was also told to hold on to it because it can't be bought
anymore. Can anyone tell me what it actually is, and what it is used
for in a machine shop? (23628) |
| As I remember,
white lead was used as a lubricant. I think the tailstock dauber
cavity was filled with white lead and was used to lube dead centers
when turning stock. (23629) |
| Someone told me it
was very poisonous (?) Tj (23630) |
| We used it for
lubrication between a dead center and the work. (23631) |
| It is lead oxide
and is used as a lubricant. It is somewhat toxic so don't eat all of
it at once. Heavy metal poisoning can make you crazier than you
already are. It is on the EPA Poo-Poo list. JP (23632) |
| I was watching an
old south bend lathe film and they used it as a lube for the dead
center. Can someone tell me what replaced it as the 'best thing to
use now' might be ? Ed (23633) |
| A live center works
pretty well. (23635) |
| I use brake caliper
grease, the black stuff that comes in a small tube. I don't know if
it is the best stuff but it works and is available. JP (23636) |
| We use a product at
work, the name of which escapes me at this moment, but which I will
find out Monday. It is used when using dead centers on our grinders
at work. Think it is Cimcool but not sure. Ron (23638) |
| There is a
substitute for white lead, and it supposedly works just as well as
lead, but for the life of me I can't seem to remember what it is
called. (23642) |
| White and red lead
were common everyday industrial products that have fallen out of
favor for legitimate environmental and potential worker safety
considerations. Both can still be bought (albeit with some searching)
and their risk can be minimal when the hazards are FULLY understood.
I personally would not use a lead based compound anywhere high heat
can be generated (like in a dead center) for risk of fuming. If you
really want to get something nasty into your system, breathing fumes
is damn effective. I wouldn't throw the stuff out either. But hell,
I have a bag of asbestos fibers in the garage that I mix with fire
clay to make a nice refractory for patching flues and about 10 lbs
of mercury that I use to make carburetor balancing sticks for
motorcycle buds. Andy (23678) |
| I didn't use the
white but we used the red lead mixed with kerosene or gas . worked
well for scraping in large vees and flats on big lathes and
grinders. It is nasty stuff maybe it is why I like to see the
steel go round and round. Tracy (23682) |
| at general motors
we used to use the white lead to lubricate hard die inserts for
metal forming when we pressed them into compression rings that kept
the glass hard tools in compression. these were cylindrical parts
that had a one degree taper on them. the white lead allowed us to
press them out later on when required. (23685) |
| Actually, red lead is an oxide; white lead is basic
lead carbonate. Just quibbling. Dave
(23703) |
| As others
have already pointed out, White Lead was used as a high pressure
lubricant. In lathe work, it was commonly used to lubricate the dead
centers. Also, in the auto repair business, it was used to check the
ring and pinion gear contact pattern when setting-up the rear end. I
wish I had some for this purpose. Webb (23705) |
| Off topic, but
maybe interesting to some. When I was at sea on coasters, we used
white lead to lubricate the bottle screws at the bottom of the ships
mast stays. These had to be frequently slacked off to drop masts for
going under bridges, such as those on the Thames to London. Grease
would wash off in seas or spray, but white lead would 'harden' and
remain, and was easily broken free when the the bottle screw was
turned. I shudder to think that we got great dollops out of the can
by hand, and smeared it onto the threads. Len (23722) |
| I'm about to
display my ignorance, but what's the difference between white lead
and old lead based white house paint. Besides the viscosity, I mean.
Could you use the settled pigment in the bottom of an old white lead
house paint can? Of course it's on the EPA poo-poo list. Isn't
everything that works? Greg (23724) |
| I think the house
paint has coloring pigments and other stuff that would make it a
poor lubricant. JP (23727) |
| White lead is
available from chemical suppliers. What we have been discussing is
white lead in oil. White lead is a powder 86.5% lead oxide and 13.5%
carbon dioxide or lead carbonate. It will not absorb water which is
a plus. As far as lead compounds go it exhibits a lower reactivity
in the human body than other lead compounds but is still not good
for you. JP(23728) |
| While Lead oxide
comes in many colors, white is not one of them. There is Black (Lead
suboxide Pb2O), there is Brown ( Lead Dioxide, PbO2), There is the
very common Red (Pb3O4), There is yellow (Litharge, PbO). Most of
the above are toxic by inhalation at 0.15 mg/m3, However the White
Lead is not an oxide. As Was mentioned earlier it is 1) Led
Carbonate, 2) Lead Sulfate or 3) Lead silicate. Its only use is as a
Paint pigment. It is less toxic by ingestion and skin absorption.
All of the above came from my bedside copy of "The Condensed
Chemical Dictionary (9th edition). Carbon Dioxide is either a solid
or a gas at standard pressure. Jim B. (23731) |
| Got my first job in
a machine shop after finishing high school in 1961. We always used
white lead for threading with a die head on an old Acme turret
lathe. I would mix it with just enough cutting oil to make a thick
goo. Brushed it on the rod to be threaded and it would form a thick
coat that would not drip off. Worked great for that type of
operation. Another note. My Pop always kept a can of Red Lead
Paint (that was the title on the can label), to use on anything
metal that needed to stay outside. He swore by the stuff and I never
saw any rust on the old wheel barrow. It was the color of today's
red oxide primer that you find in the spray cans. John (23786) |
