| How do you get it apart?
(Feb 28, 2001) |
Spindle disassembly procedure?
(Jul 1, 2003) |
| Hand wheel question (Mar
28, 2001) |
QC Gear assembly (Jul 8,
2003) |
| Total disassembly required
(Apr 16, 2001) |
Apron disassembly question
(Jul 12, 2003) |
| Removing tapered pins from axles
(Apr 20, 2001) |
Spindle Reassembly Advice
(Aug 6, 2003) |
| Removing Compound Rest
(Jun 1, 2001) |
Difficult Spindle Disassembly
(Aug 11, 2003) |
| Pre disassembly questions
(Jul 18, 2001) |
Horz. Drive Unit Countershaft
Removal (Sep 8, 2003) |
| 10L apron disassembly
(Nov 20, 2001) |
Location of shift gear pin?
(Sep 12, 2003) |
| Disassembly of SB9 saddle/apron
(Jan 8, 2002) |
SB crank handles (Oct 1,
2003) |
| Carriage disassembly (Jan
16, 2002) |
Removing Cross Slide Dial
(Oct 13, 2003) |
| Disassembly complete
(Jan 17, 2002) |
10L
Handwheel and Ball Crank Removal (Nov 1, 2003) |
| Removing Cross Slide Handle Nuts
(Jan 28, 2002) |
Clutch removal question (Nov 3, 2003) |
| Getting Feed Screw Bushings
Loose (Jan 30, 2002) |
Removing bull gear (Dec 14, 2003) |
| Heavy 10 drawbar disassembly
(Apr 24, 2002) |
Removing spindle of a 9"? (Dec 16, 2003) |
| Removing Counter Shaft Taper Pin
(Apr 26, 2002) |
Removing a 10K headstock? (Dec 16, 2003) |
| How to Take your Compound Apart
(Jun 3, 2002) |
Assembling head stock (Dec 18, 2003) |
| QC Gearbox Disassembly
(Jun 16, 2002) |
Removing compound rest from a Heavy 10 (Dec 31, 2003) |
| How to remove carriage handles?
(Jun 30, 2002) |
Back gear removal (Jan 9, 2004) |
| Remove worm from apron?
(Jul 1, 2002) |
Removing compound rest from cross slide (Jan 23, 2004) |
| Spindle Removal: Folly or not?
(Jul 2, 2002) |
Remove crossfeed handle and crankhandle (Mar 1, 2004) |
| Removing tool post holder
(Aug 20, 2002) |
Dismantling Cushman Chuck (Apr 1, 2004) |
| Cleaning new lathe (dismantling)
(Sep 1, 2002) |
Dismantling the Cushman 5"- 3 jaw chuck (May 2, 2004) |
| Chuck removal question
(Sep 2, 2002) |
Taking the lathe assembly off a base Heavy 10 (May 30,
2004) |
| Motor mount removal (Sep
9, 2002) |
10
k Spindle removal (Jun 10, 2004) |
| Removing Apron on 9" Model A
(Sep 26, 2002) |
Taper Pin Removal Help (Jul 8, 2004) |
| Dismantling Heavy 10 Tailstock
(Oct 26, 2002) |
Removing lead screw - 9A
(Aug 5, 2004) |
|
10" Compound Rest Screw
Removal (Oct 30, 2002) |
Removing Handlever Collet
Attachment (Aug 19, 2004) |
| Spindle removal (Nov 11,
2002) |
Heavy 10 disassembly
(Sep 29, 2004) |
| Dumb Disassembly question
(Dec 15, 2002) |
Apron Disassembly (Oct
10, 2004) |
| Removing stuck screw
(Feb 2, 2003) |
9" Dismantling (Oct 25,
2004) |
| 16" SBL motor removal?
(Feb 19, 2003) |
QC knob removal (Nov 27,
2004) |
| Removing compound (Apr
5, 2003) |
Gearbox assembly-disassembly
woes (Nov 28, 2004) |
| Removing Motor Mount Plate SB
13 (Apr 20, 2003) |
Removing handle on Saddle
Compound rest (Dec 6, 2004) |
| Hand wheels (May 4,
2003) |
South Bend 9" spindle assembly
(Dec 26, 2004) |
| Half-Nut Lever (May 7,
2003) |
Compound rest removal?
(Jan 6, 2005) |
| |
| How do you get it apart? |
| I am trying to
remove the shaft that supports the 2 quick change tumblers for the
quick change gear box. It seems to be held in place by a blind .125"
pin. There seems to be no extension of the hole on the other side to
drive the pin out. Is there some clever way to remove this pin? I
would rather not take a chance driving the shaft out as I am afraid
I will break the cast cover. I also don't have a hydraulic press
yet. The next question is: How does one disassemble the spring
loaded pin in the tumblers? This new one is corroded and needs some
clean up. Does anyone have any spare parts for a horizontal drive
assembly? I need the large (10") pulley and shaft. Is it possible to
use a 2 step pulley with the horizontal drive? I would prefer to go
for the extra speeds.
Jake (287) |
| There should be a through-hole
for the taper-pin. It "kisses" a groove the QC lever shaft to retain
it. You should be able to tap it out with a drift punch from the
bottom/back of the casting. It may be flush, or covered with
paint/grease, but at least on the two castings I have for the QC its
there. About the handles; I've been trying to figure that one out as
well. I've got both the older, non-knurled, as well as the newer
knurled lever styles. I want to tear 'em down for cleaning/painting.
Paul R. (288) |
| The knurled knobs on the gear tumbler levers are attached to the the
detent pin by a tapered pin. These pins are then cut off and filed
flush with the surface so that they are all but invisible to the
eye. If you look very closely at the top of the knob just above the
knurled section, you may see the ends of the pin. If you need help
in locating the ends of the pin, look at the center hole drilled in
the top of the detent pin and you will see (sometimes) the pin
passing through the hole. This will give you a clue as to where the
ends of the tapered pin are. If you just want to paint the levers, I
suggest you use some soft steel (or black iron) type wire and twist
it around the lever just under the knob while you are pulling out on
the knob. If you pull out on the knob all the way and locate the
wire up as far as you can, the area will be normally covered when
the knob is at rest and will not mar the results of the paint job.
You can mask off the knurled knob and the end of the detent pin when
painting. I only suggest this because it is easy to mar the knobs
while driving the tapered pin out. Webb (289) |
| I did locate the pins. They were
well hidden. The pin in the quick change box was a bear to find. I
finally tried to drive the pin in a little farther and it started to
show up on the opposite side. I wasn't sure if it was a taper pin or
not. Luckily it was .125" inch all the way. The pin on the tumbler
was easier to find, once I knew it was supposed to be there. Jake (299) |
| Hand wheel
question |
| I need to turn a
new handle stud for my tailstock hand wheel. How
is it attached? Is it pressed or threaded? Mel (419) |
| I am
assuming that you mean the machine (crank) handle on the hand wheel.
It is pressed in. It has been so long since I had one out I don't
remember the diameter of the stud but I think it is .251". Webb (421) |
| Total disassembly
required |
| I have recently purchased a used heavy 10 South Bend lathe.
Apparently, this was dropped on its front side during shipping and
now requires complete disassembly as some important castings are
broken or possibly bent. What I would like to know is how people
have assembled their heavy 10's. What was the order of parts removed
and in what order were they replaced? Do some parts (like sleeves
and the pins that hold them to the shafts) need to be destroyed to
disassemble some portions of the lathe? I find that I cannot remove
pins from two sleeves on the leadscrew and long pinion inside the
gearbox. Can these really be "punched out" with a tapered flat punch
or pin punch? I have taken most of the parts off that need to be
removed and replaced. One thing that worried me was that I severely
bent the leadscrew when I removed the gearbox and drive gears. The
apron casting was broken, so I pulled that off after I removed the
leadscrew end bushing. The leadscrew was already bent as a result of
being dropped. I was going to get a new leadscrew along with a new
end bushing for it. How can you reassemble the
gearbox/apron/leadscrew/end bushing without bending the leadscrew?
What tools will I need for this and can it be done by one person? I
plan to have the bed reground, scraped and tested. The bed could
have been bent as well for all I know. Or, maybe a new one is
cheaper. I'm planning to file a claim against the shipper since it
was damaged during shipping. I have pictures of all the broken parts
before I took them off. The lathe worked before it was shipped. It
was extremely dirty and did need a thorough cleaning anyway. Jim
(525) |
| To be frank, the cost of a new lead screw
will be more than another good used lathe. I would recommend that
you find another Heavy Ten and use this one for parts. Possibly you
could find another parts lathe that has the parts you need to fix
this one but that is going to be a "being in the right place at the
right time" kind of a deal. I hope the shipper's insurance doesn't
mind you tearing down the lathe before they have the opportunity to
see it. Anyway, the tear down procedure I use (in condensed format)
is: 1) Remove Tailstock, 2) Remove End Gear covers, 3) Remove
Headstock, 4) Remove right hand Lead Screw Support, 5) Remove
Carriage Assembly (by sliding the whole thing off the right hand end
of the bed), 6) Remove Quick Change Gear Box w/ Lead Screw, 7)
Remove Lathe Bed from Base Casting and Chip Pan. This leaves
everything is nice subassemblies you can overhaul separately. If you
haven't obtained a copy of the parts breakdown for your lathe, I
would contact South Bend Lathe and get one. This will give you
exploded diagrams and part numbers and an idea of how each sub
assembly is put together. There are too many nuances to cover them
all in one posting. Webb (526) |
| Jim, I just
finished the process you are starting. Please take Webb's advice and
get a copy of the parts breakdown book from South Bend. Not only
does it provide good drawings of all sub assemblies for the lathe,
it also includes some excellent step by step procedures for taking
certain sub assemblies apart. The book only costs $35 and a
lubrication chart is included. This book is especially necessary if
you need to take apart the headstock for any reason. It does give
instructions for removal of the apron and lead screw. Good luck with
your project. I tend to agree with Webb that you may want to get a
second one and use this one for parts. By the way there is someone
parting out a Heavy 10 on e-bay right now. Karl (527) |
| Removing
tapered pins from axles |
| How
do you remove tapered pins from axles? Can you just knock them out
with a pin punch by hitting them on the straight end? I have a bunch
of these pins to remove and I don't want to have to destroy the
sleeves to remove them. It seems almost impossible to remove them
from the leadscrew part and I have to take the sleeve off to remove
the leadscrew from the gearbox. It does not say anything in the
South Bend catalog about how to do this. Jim (547) |
| At least on my
9" Model A SB I've been able to tap out tapered pins by using a pin
punch and hammer on the small end of the pin. Comes right out. Also
goes right back in. Paul R. (548) |
| I agree with Paul,
I took all mine out the same way. Some times you need to "Come on to
her" a little, but they will come out. I did fine that it is hard to
tell the big end for the small end sometimes when there is lots a
paint. Rule of thumb is the small end will always be on the bottom
so if it works loose it will not fall out. However, the pin which
holds my lead screw to my gearbox is a roll pin or sometimes called
a split pin. They can come out from any side but they have thin
walls and you really need the right size pin punch to get them out.
Jim (549) |
| Removing
Compound Rest |
| Trying to remove
the compound rest from my Heavy 10. I believe there are two "clamp
shoes" underneath the setscrews in the saddle that you loosen to
turn the compound rest assembly. I can't get these clamp shoes out
of the holes. The set screws are obviously easy to remove. How do
you remove the clamp shoes that bear against the compound rest?
Don't know if they're brass or not, but I've had no luck putting a
magnetic pickup in the hole to pull the shoes out. The shoes are a
real close fit in the holes. George (763) |
| Those
shoes can be difficult. Especially when old oil and cutting fluids
have turned into varnish effectively glued them in. The best thing
to do is to remove the set screws completely and soak the whole
cross slide and compound assembly in kerosene or mineral spirits for
a day or two. Then, remove the compound from the cross slide by
clamping the cross slide and lifting up on the compound. A "rocking"
motion while lifting will help seat the shoes back into the cross
slide casting. Once the compound is off, the shoes can be pushed in
towards the center and out of the casting via the hole exposed by
the vacated cross slide. After you got it apart, clean out the
holes, oil and reassemble.
Webb (764) |
| Webb, I've
got some WD-40 soaking in the holes. Someone on RCM mentioned that
the shoes have probably mushroomed which is likely. Funny how
nothing is ever as simple as it should be. George (765) |
| Once the compound
is out as described by Webb, you can simply put the setscrews back
in and use them to push the shoes out into the central hole. I swap
my compound in and out fairly frequently, going between the compound
and a solid spacer for the BXA toolholder, and exercising them like
that makes the removal easy after a while. It *IS* possible to get
the wedge on the end rotated 180 degrees from normal and ding the
mating cylindrical dovetail, making removal difficult, but the
setscrew would be further out in that situation, not flush with the
casting. It only occurs when the shoe is sticking in the bore, since
normally it will self adjust to the dovetail as you push it into
mating contact. Mike (766) |
| Which model
lathe are you trying to get the carriage off? I just went through
this last weekend. it sounds worse than it is. mine is a model a.
this is what I did. First I would suggest blocking up the apron so
it does not bear any weight on the leadscrew or rotate away from the
ways when you disconnect it from the saddle. obviously, make sure
that the half nuts are disengaged and the power crossfeed selection
is in neutral. There are 2 screws that hang the apron from the front
of the saddle. On mine they are large fillister head screws in
counterbored holes. If you remove them, you will disconnect the
apron from the saddle. The saddle has plate underneath the ways at
the back. There are 2 bolts back there. If you remove them and the
plate, then you can remove the saddle by lifting it straight up and
off. Then you need to remove the lead screw bearing/bracket at the
far right end of the ways. There are 2 fillister heads screws in
counterbored holes as well. Remove that and you can then slide the
apron off to the right. Note the position of the keyway on the
leadscrew. The worm is hollow and has the key that engages the
leadscrew. The apron and saddle are not too heavy, but are rather
unwieldy. I was very careful in handling them. Reassembly is the
reverse of disassembly. dp (838) |
| Pre disassembly
questions |
| I am
going to attempt disassembling the headstock this weekend do do a
couple of things: 1. remove and service the qc gearbox. the screws
for the gearbox are obstructed by the headstock casting. is this
normal? I am considering grinding a bit of the casting away so I can
remove the gearbox in the future w/o removing the headstock. 2.
remove and clean/service the backgear spindle. I do not wish to open
up the spindle and bearings. I am hoping to remove it as an
assembly. From looking at my parts book, it is not clear what has to
come off first. Are there any hidden gotcha's that anyone has run
into? The lathe is a 9" model A. dennis (1116) |
| If you can get at
enough of the screw heard to turn it (which can often be quite hard)
you might be able to drop the gearbox off the underside of the bed
as you loosen the screws, so that the screws never rise up to
interfere with the headstock. This is just a guess though, as my 9"
is change gear and the clearance issues on the13" QC lathe I'm
familiar with are certainly different than on the 9". Chris (1117) |
| If all you are
really trying to do is remove the QC box, you should be able to
loosen the two clamp nuts on the underside of the headstock and
slide it out of the way. I don't think you can remove the spindle
without having to reset the bearing preload. The backgear should
come right out without having to mess with the spindle. As for the
obstruction by the casting, I have plenty of room. OTOH, mine is a
rear drive, if you have an under drive I can see where it might be
in the way. BTW, have fun with the gearbox ;-) (four pins, 22 gears,
and a smile.) Frank (1143) |
| 10L apron
disassembly |
| I want to
take the apron apart on my SB 10L to have a look and clean out the
swarf and nastiness that is probably lurking inside. Any tricks to
the disassembly? Is it pretty straightforward? I have the manual to
aid me in getting it all back together. Just thought I'd ask those
who may have gone here before. (2203) |
| If this lathe has
power feeds you will need to either remove the leadscrew first or
run the apron off the tailstock end of the leadscrew after removing
the bracket that holds it at that end. On lathes without power feeds
you may be able to just pull the apron forward with the half nuts
all the way open (this work on the 9" model C at least). In other
words, it takes two people... one wields the giant screwdriver on
the apron-saddle bolts, while the other holds the apron to take the
load off the leadscrew. (When we took my 13" apart, I held the apron
while a friend removed the screws. Then I walked it down to the
tailstock end while he removed the leadscrew bracket, then he held
the leadscrew while I slide the apron off of it. I put the apron
down without spilling the oil and reinstalled the leadscrew bracket
before he got tired of holding it). Christopher (2204) |
| Disassembly of
SB9 saddle/apron |
| I'd like to take
the saddle/apron apart for cleaning. What do I need to know/do to do
this? I see two flathead screws on the upper outer corners (too
tight for my forearms) but there must be more than that with all
those gears/drives in there? Rick
(2600) |
| Those two
screws you mention have to come out. They hold the apron to the
saddle. I used one of those handheld impact screwdrivers to loosen
the screws. Tap lightly with support under the apron edge!! It
didn't take much - just a little more force than I could get with a
screwdriver. I guess to be expected for a 62 year old lathe. This
removes the apron from the saddle. Now remove the leadscrew bracket
from the right side of the bed and slide out the apron past the
leadscrew being careful not to move the leadscrew beyond where it is
with its bracket in place. Otherwise you might bend it at the base
of the gearbox. Also loosen the screw which locks the saddle in
position. It is fairly simple - once you have it apart it is obvious
how it all goes back together. This is the way I took mine apart -
if anyone has a better way I'd love to hear it.
Alex (2602) |
| What about
the worm on the leadscrew that drives the powerfeed? It is keyed to
the leadscrew, so does it just run off the end of the leadscrew (and
reverse in re-assembly)? Rick (2603) |
| Yes the key from
the worm just slides off the leadscrew. Pretty straight forward. The
key was worn on mine. I replaced all I could in the apron while it
was apart - new key is fairly easy. Alex (2604) |
| Do you mean
gears, or what on the replacement? I'll find out how bad mine are
when I get in there, I guess. Sounds straight-forward enough. Rick
(2605) |
| Replaced the key,
gasket and I believe a bearing, it was about 8 months ago I did
this. There was a lot of dirt inside - even if you don't plan on
replacing anything it is still a good idea to take it apart to clean
it. I still have it apart....waiting for the factory to regrind the
bed for my lathe. Also the halfnuts are worn quite a bit. The
December 2001/January 2002 issue of Machinist's Workshop has a good
article on how to rebuild halfnuts if you are interested. Alex
(2614) |
| Alex, Now where
could I get a copy of the December 2001/January 2002 issue of
Machinist's Workshop? I'd like to rebuild the halfnuts on mine, worn
down as they are. Does Borders or Barnes and Noble carry this?
Bilal(2636) |
| They probably carry
it. I have a local magazine/smoke shop that has just about anything
in print. That is where I get mine. The basic procedure is to build
a jig to hold them, braze to build up what is worn, then run a tap
through to make the threads. Alex (2637) |
| Carriage
disassembly |
| I'm in the process
of disassembling my carriage. I have the crank off, the feedscrew
bronze nut off, the graduated collar locking screw out and the
cross-slide itself off completely. The leadscrew won't come out and
the graduated collar won't turn on the leadscrew. From the parts
book it looks as if the collar should pull off, the bushing unscrew
and the leadscrew should slide out at this point. Am I missing a
fastener, or is the thing just seized? (2759) |
| If you are taking
the crossfeed apart. On my Heavy 10, the set screw at top is only to
cover up the oil hole. I THINK on mine the hex section on the
crossfeed behind the dial you just unscrew it from the casting. I
did not take the dial or the handle off. The whole thing came out
together. B.G. BTW the nut can be bought from SB and the screw and
dial assy Dave Sobel has... if you need. B.G. (2762) |
| I keep hearing of
Dave Sobel, but I know not how to get hold of him...I was going to
do the shop-rat fix with acme stock and nut from McMaster Carr...do
you have Dave's email? (2763) |
| I don't think Dave
even owns a computer! Nice guy, (most of the time) very fair to deal
with, no 800 number, no website, no credit cards, cash or check
only. If he doesn't have it, he will know someone else. Dave Sobel
(2765) |
| Lurch, I didn't
see any mention of removing the ball crank handle. Or are you trying
to remove the cross feed screw as an assembly. If you are trying to
remove it as an assembly, the bushing is right-hand threaded into
the saddle casting. The way I have removed them is to take the
saddle, with the cross feed screw, off the lathe and clamp the
bushing in a well padded vise with the screw and saddle pointing
straight up (I use lead but leather works too) and unscrew the
saddle from the bushing. Then the cross feed screw assembly can be
disassembled by unscrewing the special nut on the end that retains
the ball crank handle. This requires a screwdriver like tool that
has a notch cut in the center to clear the threaded hub of the cross
feed screw. The ball crank handle can then be removed by gently
tapping it off. There is a 1/8" diameter pin used as a key to
prevent the handle from slipping on the shaft. This pin may fall out
as you remove the handle. The graduated collar is removed next.
Loosen the set screw (small dial) or the thumb screw (large dial)
and slide the dial off. Under the screw, there is a small brass disk
called a "shoe" that prevents the screw from marring the shaft.
These fall out and can get lost if you are not careful. All that is
left is the bushing and the cross feed screw and they slide apart
from this point.
Webb (2766) |
| I didn't
miss anything a bath in penetrating oil won't cure I guess. (2767) |
| Disassembly
complete |
| Well, it's apart.
The threaded bushing that screws into the cross-slide [which looks
to be homemade, drunken threads, tool marks and all], the crank and
the graduated collar are salvageable although I'll probably make new
ones just because the rust pitting that's been wire-brushed off is
ugly. However, I did find a part not listed anywhere in my book [big
surprise--this assembly is full of them but I'm used to that being
as my lathe is pre-fire]. It's a flanged bushing, 3/8 ID x 1/2 OD by
.885 overall length. The flange on the end is the same OD as the
thrust bearing and it installs flange-towards-thrust-bearing...or
should I say flange-towards-where-the-bearing-should-be--I'm
assuming there's supposed to be a thrust bearing at both ends of the
fat part of the leadscrew. The bushing [which also looks homemade]
goes over the leadscrew and through the graduated collar. It was
cross-pinned to the leadscrew. The leadscrew is trashed anyway...the
threads are 1/2-10 Acme at each end and 60-degree "V" in the middle
with a sharp edge on the "V". My guess is at one time leadscrews
were 3/8 OD on the crank end and later ones were 1/2 OD and this is
a conversion kit from small dials or a Frankenstein setup with
possibly a collar from some other size or brand [maybe a Heavy 10
collar?]--the number stamping is a different size and font than the
other 3 SB collars I have. Oh well, at least the carriage casting is
good, no wasp-waisting on the ways I can tell...and I got it for a
price that I don't mind too much that the rest of the assembly's
junk. (2768) |
| So now the only
question remaining is whether I can replace the leadscrew and nut
with OEM for less than $60...the cost of a length of precision lefty
Acme rod and a nut from McMaster-Carr. I figure I could just bore
the splined part of the old leadscrew to a loose press-fit on the
Acme rod...http://pages.cthome.net/errol.groff/ has an article on
doing this because a leadscrew and nut were quoted from SBL at about
$1200 he says...has anyone here on the list tried this? (2769) |
| Its really a matter
of accuracy. The McMaster Carr stuff isn't ground and accurate to
tenths over a foot. There are vendors that sell lead screws and I
believe their price would be around 300 but you would have to
machine it to fit your lathe. Yasmiin(2770) |
| .009/ft is their
spec. Who sells ground leadscrew stock? (2771) |
| I changed my small
dial cross slide to the large dial when I rebuilt my 9" SB. You are
correct in that there should be thrust bearings in this assembly.
But if yours appears to be homemade the stack up may not be correct.
The large dial screw has a different overall length and the gear
drive area is shorter. The extra length is on the 3/8 dia shaft end.
There is a thrust bearing between the collar that screws into the
casting and the flange where the 3/8 dia. meets the gear drive. The
second fits into a recess on the opposite end of the collar and the
busing pinned to the 3/8 dia. S.B. quoted a price of $70 per bushing
but MSC has thrust bushing with the same dia. for about$5. However,
the S.B. brg is .25 thick and the MSC is .281 thick. I bought my
large dial assembly from Meridan Mach. and altered my small dial
assembly to a large dial. FYI~ my understanding of why the small and
large dial assemblies are different lengths is due to the set back
from the carriage required for the clearance over the larger dia
when the saddle is cranked out. Ed (2772) |
| Brian, You might
call Plaza Machinery. He sells a section of crosslide leadscrew for
I think $25. He also reconditions (ie sleeves or replaces the
threads for a cost). You might also look at the nut. They should
cost $35. Remember the nuts are different depending on if you have a
taper attachment or not. The previous dimensions on the bearing are
correct .250 vs. .281. I bought some INA bearings and ground them
down on a surface grinder. You could modify the housing itself. It
would need to be shortened at the threaded end and the bearing
recess on the other end would have to be depend. There is a collar
as you described on my 10K. (for some reason I was think lead screw
on your first post). If you check back a few weeks someone mentioned
that some of these collars are pinned (both cross leadscrews I have
are), some are not. There seems to be some variation on pin location
between the two I have. Talking to Plaza Machinery before, a press
fit work good. I would put in some Loctite too. .001 press should be
fine. You could soft solder or silver solder it also. If soft
soldering there should be .001 clearance. Not more than that though.
The trick with soft solder is to flux or apply the solder to both
parts before assemble I'm blanking on the correct term). Then
assemble. I usually heat up the bigger part during assembly, and
feed is more solder till the joint fills up. Tom
(2773) |
| MSC has some acme
threaded rod specified for 2 thou per foot. Still not perfect,
probably fine for most cross slide or compound uses, maybe OK for a
leadscrew, unless you use the lathe to make quite long threaded
sections that require really tight specs. Stan (2774) |
| Now we are getting
picky again. The acme threaded rod that McMaster, Enco, J L, MSC and
others have is as good as you are going to find anywhere and
probably better than you could cut yourself. Everybody gets to
concerned about dial graduations and how accurate they are when they
are "FOR REFERENCE USE ONLY". That is why GOD made micrometers and
calipers to measure what you are doing. We recently here at the shop
rebuilt two milling machine tables on all three axis with McMaster
supplied threaded rod and they work about 500% better than the old
worn out ones that were in the machines. The variation in pitch on
these threaded rods is way less than half the tolerance between the
rod and nut anyway. JWE (2775) |
| I forgot
about the large dials using the ball thrust bearings (like the Heavy
Ten's). I apologize if my instructions were confusing. They would
have been correct for the small dial type. I concur with the opinion
that the commercially available Acme screw stock is good enough for
your application. Considering all the variables in machining
(clearance between nut and screw, spring in the work, etc.) they
will be accurate enough. I would check on Plaza's screw stock. He is
the only one I know of that has 7/16" x 10 t.p.i. Acme screw stock.
Did someone mention that he has replacement nuts too? Anyway, Good
Luck and keep us posted on your progress. Webb (2777) |
| Yes, he has
replacement nuts. I did purchase one. I believe the price was $35.
As stated before, specify if your lathe has a taper attachment (or
possibility that the saddle is taper attachment ready) or not. There
is a difference in the two. I figure Webb already knows this, but
others following this thread might not. He also, has other products
available, like a treaded end sleeve for the collet closers. I need
to get one myself. Tom (2778) |
| My neighbor across
the street brazes and solders for a living and owes me a favor so
that's covered. Just to complicate matters further, talk about TOO
MANY choices, while I'm searching leadscrew stock I found a deal on
a new OEM SBL leadscrew, nut, graduated collar, bushing, bearings,
the whole shot except the crankhandle itself, all new-in-box for
$300. So I sent that guy a check. AND ordered the leadscrew stock
and nut. That way if I screw it up I'm covered, and if I don't screw
it up I KNOW I can get my money back out of the OEM parts. A couple
weeks' interest on $300 at savings-account rate is awful cheap
insurance. By the time this is done I'll be able to spend a few
bucks on a headstock and bed...and have a complete second lathe to
trade in on a Bridgeport! (2779) |
| "Tinning" is the
process of coating the workpiece with solder before assembly. Also,
I would use a rosin flux rather than acid flux or "No-Korode"
paste...the "No-Korode" paste is actually zinc chloride-based, which
any leftovers draw water from the air and break down into
hydrochloric acid and whatever else. Does Plaza machinery have a
website? Brian (2780) |
| Brian, That is the
term I was looking for. I don't think Plaza has a website. The ph#
is 802-234-9673. I don't think he does credit cards, I believe I've
always had to pay be MO. The nut was $37.50. (2781) |
| I agree
with you. I was only mentioning that a tighter tolerance was
available. You will surely have a thou or more free space in a
standard nut/threaded rod setup. Given the import lathes tendency to
use metric threads and imperial collars, the error introduced will
be far less than the error you work around if you have an import
lathe. I know, this is the SB group, and I have 2, but plenty of
folks (including me) have an import lathe as well. You should be
able to dial in a 15 thou cut and reduce diameter by 30 thou to
better than a thou. 9 thou or 2 thou per foot error isn't going to
matter in this application. Trying to hit final spec by dial if
you're turning a one inch shoulder on the end of a 8 inch workpiece
just isn't reasonable in most cases anyway, although the better the
screw the better your odds of not missing by a mile :-) A 9 thou per
foot error on a leadscrew could pose a problem if you were single
pointing 2 inches of 40TPI for use in a micrometer adjustment
mechanism, although in reality the odds of hitting to better than a
thou over 2 inches seems unlikely in a home shop, merely due to the
expansion of the stock created by the heat of cutting. At least for
those of us without flood cooling. The lead screw will only be at
the manufacturers accuracy at 68 degrees, or whatever temperature
precision lead screws for high end lathes are specified to be used
at, as the leadscrew will expand or contract a bit as ambient
temperature moves around anyway. The half nut will average out the
miniscule thread to thread variations from oil/dust/manufacturing,
but a progressive gradual error in pitch would be replicated in the
final work. As you say however, for the vast majority of work it
just doesn't matter. If you replace a badly worn screw with a
reasonably decent new one, the results are almost sure to be better
than what you had before. Stan(2782) |
| Brian, If it helps
you any, take a look in both the files and photos sections. There
are folders there containing drawings an pictures of the crossfeed
bushing and graduated collar I made for my 10K. My lathe was
originally equipped with the large dials, but I made mine even
larger. There is also a text file that explains the whys and all of
what I did. Feel free to contact me if you need more info.
Raymond (2785) |
| Its really a matter
of accuracy. The McMaster Carr stuff It is a boring job, but
telescope makers lap screws to high accuracy to create mounts to
follow the earth's rotation. Put some lapping compound between screw
and nut and screw it back and forth many, many times. Then lap in a
new nut to fit the improved screw. (2790) |
| I think I can top
all you guys on crosslide screw replacement. Some time ago at a
machine shop auction in a small farm town I saw a great shape 13" SB
QC lathe with a 7' bed. It had everything including a lever actuated
5C collet closer. It had only a few bidders that dropped out early ,
because it had a power turret and production style crosslide.
Needless to say I stole it. I knew I could replace the crosslide
with a standard SB one and get a standard SB tailstock which with
careful shopping I got at reasonable prices . The fly in the
ointment was the crosslide nut was shot and I did not buy the pricy
screw assy. Got ripped off by Babin scam on what I thought was a
bargain. ( moral, only buy from known legit dealers) I thought I
could use the production crosslide screw assy but found it hat a RH
thread instead of a LH needed. Decided to fabricate the whole
assembly except for the large SB dial , crank and thrust bearing I
had, and a section of LH MSC acme screw stock. Machined the CI
housing to clone SB's. Attached the acme LH part to a newly machined
first part including cutting the gear section to drive the power
cross feed. Machined a new clone bronze nut threaded with a
commercial acme tap. Bottom line is I have a very nice 13" SB at a
total reasonable price and can use the power turret and or crosslide
if desired. It was also a fun project. Walt
(2791) |
| Could automate that
process pretty easy; couple limit switches and a couple latching
relays but isn't that what apprentices are for? Chuckle (2792) |
| Brian, Usually,
"CI" is the acronym for "Cast Iron." I take it from context that is
what is meant here. I have made a cross slide screw for a SBL 9"
Model A long ago. I made it with a "fatter" thread to compensate for
the wear in the nut. I also had to cut the integral gear on the
screw. Old war stories from long ago. Webb
(2794) |
| Removing Cross
Slide Handle Nuts |
| I want to disassemble the cross slide and topslide feed screws for cleaning and checking wear, etc. Maybe also
to replace with larger dials. First I need to figure out how. I see
the slotted "nut" but the shaft it screws onto protrudes and
interferes with using an ordinary straight slot screw driver. I can
envision getting a cheap screwdriver and grinding out the center
portion so it can be used. Is there some other way to do this? Also,
to unscrew the threaded dial bushing from the slide casting, there
is a hole at the bottom. If I had the suitable spanner wrench (which
I'd have to make), it would be easy. What other methods can be used
to unscrew this bushing, please. I've used Kroil on the threads
already to "unfreeze" them, but nothing that I've tried works. I of
course have not used the channel-locks as I don't want to bugger
them up. Rick K. (2970) |
| I'd go for a big
screwdriver with a slot... maybe even make one if you have access to
an anvil and a way to get some drill rod up to forging temperature.
You will probably need to harden and temper it. Haven't gotten mine
off yet, but here's a random idea. Measure the OD of boss right
behind the collar - the place where you want the spanner to go will
be a little smaller, but take the larger dimension. Go to your local
hardware store and buy a hex nut with a major diameter slightly
smaller than this. Bore the nut so it can slide over the bushing.
Drill and tap a hole for a cap screw that will fit the spanner hole.
Turn the nut with a big wrench. For a variation, you could probably
cut enough of the nut off to be able to put it on the smaller
diameter part of the bushing without having to go over the large
part. Might or might not work, but the nut will be under $2 and it
should take about fifteen minutes to adapt. Chris (2971) |
| There's an article
in the Aug/Sep 2000 MW, "Tyro's First Lathe, part 2" that discusses
removing/repairing parts of the cross feed screw assembly. Another
one's about reworking the nut/screw. Contact me off list if you need
the details. Paul R. (2972) |
| Paul. I get
the mag and will look at it again. I thought Tyro's first lathe was
an Atlas 6", so it surprises me that its relevant, but I'll check it
out. Rick (2973) |
| No access to an
anvil, so I'll probably modify an existing large screw driver. Good
idea on the hex nut. I was eyeing the box end wrenches at the store
earlier, thinking on how I could make a spanner wrench from one. A
half- or 2/3rds nut opened enough to fit over the OD might work,
especially if the other half were "placed" in the socket prior to
"wrenching". Rick K.(2975) |
| Well, I'll be go ta
.... Look at that, all the very things I wanted to know about. Maybe
this is where I thought it had been "discussed already".
Paul. (2977) |
| Cool, Rick, Now
when you take it all apart, can you carefully measure an unworn
section of the lead screw and verify what it is? Also, I've yet to
tear down my cross and compound feed, so hearing what you actually
had to go through to get it all apart would be great! Paul
R. (2978) |
| Maybe this is of no
help but on my Atlas and as I remember the SB we had in the
laboratory were the same. Behind the dial there is a hex nut, the
handle is held between that nut and the slotted nut in the handle. A
thin wrench can screw that nut towards the casting which loosens the
slotted nut to remove easily. John (2979) |
| Interesting. I have
both (SB 9 Atlas 10) sitting side by side and I don't see much
similarity, at least externally. SB has the round bushing with a
spanner type hole, slit nut on the handle mount. Atlas has a hex
bushing next to the casting, solid hex nut on the handle mount and a
hex nut between the handle and grad. dial. Rick (2981) |
| A strap wrench
should work. Sears in the last few years sell them. I got at a flea
market an old one in good condition for peanuts because no one knew
what it was. It has a fabric belt that contacts the object. Walt
(2984) |
| Snap-On and the
other tool trucks sell a very EXPENSIVE screwdriver with a slot
already ground in it if you prefer that ;-) What if you put a pin in
the spanner-wrench hole and apply torque to the pin? Or a two-piece
split collar the same nominal ID as the OD of the bushing, then put
the vise-grips on the collar? (2985) |
| One of the funniest
parts about working on these old beauties is figuring out how to get
it without using brute horsepower or billions of dollars. Make tools
do the work, find new ways to use the noodle first and the tool
sense will come. mine mine usually come apart grudgingly but just
fine with a pair of hard steel scissor points ground flat, and held
in a crescent wrench or small vise-grip to prevent twisting and
resulting slashing of the fingers. these machines are designed to be
maintained for their lifetime, not the once-and done methods of
today's disposable economy. if you decide to make the screwdriver
with the cutout - use one with a hardened steel blade as others will
have little strength when ground thin and may bugger up the slot if
the nut is tight or the points are not sharp and square to the slot.
I have used this kind of driver a fair number of times so it's not a
lost item when this job is completed -as the guy at the head of the
classroom said - " you will see this material again". (2986) |
| I made a tool from
a short piece of 1/2 inch CRS rod with a center hole drilled to
clear the threads of the screw. I milled off two notches in the face
of the rod leaving two perjoggins to fit the nut slot. I cross
drilled a hole to accept the chuck pins from my Sherline and heated
and quenched it to harden. It works very nicely. To remove the
bushing from the casting I used leather to pad the jaws of my vise.
The strap wrench would probably work, but I forgot to ask for one
for Christmas. Glen (2987) |
| Brian: I have used
the 3/8" drive screwdriver bits, I just take my Dremel and notch the
center and they seem to hold up good. Randy (2988) |
| Make a tool to do
the job of removing the slotted nut. You can do it several ways.
Your method of grinding away on a large screwdriver is OK. If you
have a mill, make a tool to fit the slots, cut out the center, and
mill a hex head on the other end. I think I made mine to fix a 3/8 6
point socket. Nice control with a 1/4 inch small ratchet and socket
over the adapter. If you don't have a mill, you could drill a
clearance hole in the center of a piece of drill rod (better yet
steel hex so you can use a socket), then grinding to a nice fitting
tool. If you didn't use hex stock, cross drill for a handle. On the
9 inch lathe I rebuilt, seems to me that I just grabbed a piece of
drill rod that was a nice sliding fit in the hole on the dial
bushing. Once the screw and dial were removed, I just used this bit
of rod as a tommy bar. It's been nearly a year, but I think that's
how I did it. No signs of vice grips or any other low class methods
being applied. Stan (2991) |
| I was thinking the
very same thing about making a tool to fit the slots that could be
used in a ratchet. I have a mill so can do it. Rick K.
(2992) |
| I'm attempting first to use a split hex nut with a
pin inserted to fit the hole in the bushing. I found large brass jam
nuts at the a "real" hardware store and have bored one out to 0.935"
to fit the bushing dia of 0.930", split it and am ready to drill for
the pin. I'm pretty sure it will work just putting the two halves of
the nut back together over the bushing and turning it with a wrench,
but I'm toying with the idea of hinging the split nut, with the
hinge point being one of the peaks on the hex. This would require
milling away half the thickness of the corresponding two nut halves,
drilling both and tapping one. Would keep the two halves together
for future use, which should be almost nil, but what the heck, its a
"project", right. Got another nut to use for the compound bushing.
Rick K. (2993) |
| Rick, the way
I did it - take a screwdriver and a hammer. Gets the nut off post
haste, but the resulting day and a half making a new nut hardly
makes it worth it. Frank (3060) |
| Getting Feed
Screw Bushings Loose |
| I made a hinged
"spanner nut" for loosening and tightening the feedscrew bushing
tonight. Worked very well. Got both loose, but by that time it was
late enough I didn't do any cleaning, etc. Had an aborted first run
at the hinged nut, but split the nut first, which made it difficult
to drill the holes and mill the hinge recesses, due to trying to
hold odd shaped pieces. Second try, held the nut in the mill vise,
located center, drilled the holes, milled the hinge recess, then
split the nut. Much better. For a view of some photos, try this
link, Go to the Photos root site,
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/lst Then click
on the "FeedScrew Bushings" folder. Rick K. (3006) |
| Nice work. I notice
the little oil hole in the top of your cross slide at the front,
appears to be threaded. Mine isn't. Is it supposed to be? I though
this was an oiler hole for the cross-slide feedscrew bushing. (3009) |
| I haven't a
clue. It didn't come with a screw in the hole I hadn't noticed that
it was threaded. Might have to get a screw to put in there. Wouldn't
be much to thread yours, etc. Rick K. (3011) |
| Very nice work,
Rick, and unique too! The "OIL" hole in mine is not threaded, and it
looks like it might even be plugged up. I would imagine that SB
might have put a slotted set-screw in there to keep out the bad
stuff. What year is your lathe? Mine's a 1941. Paul R. (3017) |
| Mine's a 1937, so a
slotted setscrew for a plug may be a later addition. lurch (3018) |
| I completed tonight
a notched driver for removing the feedscrew handle nuts. Made it
from drill rod, milled the hex flats using a rotary table, turned it
around, milled the screwdriver sides with a 1/2" end mill offset
from centerline 0.030" on two sides, leaving a screwdriver of 0.060"
thickness in the center, then rotated it 90 deg and notched it with
a 1/4" end mill. Worked slick. The nuts were not very tight. Cleaned
up some rough surfaces and made new brass binder shoes. Cosmetic
cleanup of caked crude, etc will be done later. Photos added to the
same folder. Rick (3026) |
| Heavy 10
drawbar disassembly |
| The threads of my
5C collect closer are gone so I am going make a replacement tube. I
am wondering if there is a trick to disassembling the current
assembly. The hand wheel fitting appears to be attached by two
tapered pins, driven through from the outside and filed flush. While
I can see the ends in the interior of the tube, I don't have
sufficient access to punch them out. I am planning on drilling them
out but want to make sure there isn't a better way before I do.
Ed (4046) |
| I think I
managed to punch mine through from the outside or something. I
remember disassembling the parts to be a real pain. And then I
didn't get the threads right. Someday I'm going to start over, and
do it completely from scratch with a larger diameter handwheel.
And will build something like a cheapo 3-jaw chuck into the
handwheel to help center long pieces of thin stock that otherwise
tend to whip badly. I'll also find a way to make the length of the
drawbar adjustable as my various collets don't all have quite the
same thread clearance, and I'll be able to correct for wear in the
tube that way. Of course that is just the tip of the iceberg with
regard to what I'm going to do someday. Chris
(4047) |
| I recently acquired a South Bend Heavy 10. One of the accessories that came
with the lathe is a JFK (brand) lever type 5C collet closer. The JFK
seems to be similar to a Royal collet closer and is nicely made; JFK
company is in Sun Valley, CA, on the outskirts of Los Angeles.
Anyway, in my search for knowledge about the closer, I found that
among the spare parts that JFK sells is new draw tubes, already with
the female thread to accept the 5C collets. The other end has a male
thread that is meant to screw into the lever-end of the device. They
sell the draw tubes (28" long, I believe) for $60. Perhaps these
draw tubes could be cut to length and adapted to your wheel-type
South Bend collet closers without too much trouble. Could be worth a
phone call to JFK to find out. Their phone number is (323) 875-0636.
Dale
(4048) |
| I work 10
minutes away from the San Diego IMS so I hope to be able to just
pick up some tubing. If not, Aircraft Spruce lists 1-3/8",0.120 wall
seamless 4130 tubing for $5.19/ft. I don't think it should be too
hard to cut the threads for these on the lathe. Does anyone know
which grade of steel the factory used for this sort of thing?
Ed (4049) |
| Removing
Counter Shaft Taper Pin |
| Anyone got any tips
or secrets about removing the taper pin holding the countershaft
motor pulley to the countershaft? I've obtained a 2-step pulley but
cannot get either the original or the new one free of their
respective shafts. (Shaft with the 2-step is pretty badly scored up,
not something that looks good to use). Just looking at the taper
pins, there is a protruding end, what seems like the larger
diameter, and a recessed end. Assuming the recessed one is the
smaller dia. of the taper, I've pounded on it with a drift punch,
but no sign of movement. They are taper pins, right? Rick K.
(4090) |
| The best way get them off if the pins won't come out is drill
out the shafts and make new ones i have made many replacements for
other people out of drill rod. (4092) |
| You
answered a question hadn't asked yet, that being, is drill rod a
suitable shaft material. I have some on hand of the right dia. I
hadn't considered drilling out the old shaft, but I could do it if
necessary. Rick. (4093) |
| How to Take
your Compound Apart |
| Chris, If you
want to take the compound apart on your 9 inch SBL, here is what to
do: 1) Remove the compound from the cross slide, 2) Remove the
compound screw assembly from the upper compound casting, 3) Back out
the gib screws and remove the gib, 4) Loosen the set screw in the
lower casting that locks the nut for the compound screw, 5) Insert a
screw driver between upper and lower compound castings and push the
nut down through the lower casting enough to allow the upper casting
to slide off. With the gib removed, you get just enough clearance to
do this. I hope this is clear enough so that you can get your
compound apart. Webb
(4437) |
| QC Gearbox
Disassembly |
| I'm stumped.
I've been successful at fully disassembling my 187A, Heavy 10 expect
for one component, the QC change gearbox. The gearbox is mostly
disassembled, except for the lead screw speed gears (specific
terminology unknown). I noticed that there was a cross pin in a hex
shaped "nut" on the lower axle, which I was able to drift out
without too much difficulty. However, I am unable to unscrew or
drift out the axle assembly from the gears mounted on it. As far as
I can tell, the lower gears need to be removed prior to the upper
gear assembly. Is there anyone out there who has done this before
who could point me in the right direction?
(4623) |
| I don't know
if this applies to your style gearbox, but on the single arm/top
lever style used on the old SB lathes there are tapered pins that go
through the root of some of the gears and shaft. The only way to
find them is to clean out the roots of all the gears with a dental
pick in most cases as the gunk is hard and well packed down there.
Took a while to figure this out on my '29 SB13. Stan (4628) |
| I cleaned off
the gears, but I was not able to see any other taper pins other than
the one in the hex "nut. Does anyone out there possibly have a
exploded diagram of the assembly? (4655) |
| How to remove
carriage handles? |
| Can anyone tell me how to remove the pins and crank
handles from the saddle and compound rest? I have the split head
nuts off, and the handles are loose, but I cannot pull them straight
off, nor can I coax the little pins that keep them from spinning to
come out of their holes. I am afraid to use a puller on them, as it
seems the pin may be tapered to keep the handle from coming off?
Scott
(4862) |
| I
can't tell you if it's acceptable practice or not but when I removed
mine I gave 'em a solid tapping with a small brass hammer. I've also
used a roofing hammer brass drift G saying I told you to do it. The
pins stayed in the handles when I got them off ( used a squirt of
penetrating oil also ) and while I never bothered to examine them
closely I don't believe they were tapered. I think they're just
small diameter carbon steel. I suppose if ya wanted to you could
center punch them drill 'em out but you'd stand a good chance of
hitting either the handle or shaft as well if not really careful.
Use a puller on it anyways and put some brass shim stock between the
puller jaws and the handle to keep from marking it. A sheet of
aluminum would work also. Dave (4863) |
| The
pins are in effect "round" keys. It may require a little extra force
to get the cranks off the shafts but you are going in the right
direction. The pins are 1/8 dia straight and fit tight in the seats.
I had the same trouble over a year ago in my rebuild. Ed
(4864) |
| I got the handles off, without incident, just a little
tapping with a light hammer. Very strange, they would move a
sixteenth of an inch toward coming off, then stop, which caused my
to suspect there may be a taper somewhere. I just got a parts manual
on Ebay which should be coming this week - I imagine that will help
clear some of my questions up as well. Scott
(4866) |
| Every one of these I've ever seen is just a simple straight
piece or fairly soft small (3/16 or smaller) round stock. You can
use a puller, or gently tap the end of the shaft while pulling on
the handle. Don't mushroom the shaft of course, if they're really
tight it's probably just a bit of oil varnish gluing things
together, or a burr. Unlike some of the import lathes, I've never
run into anything on a SB that isn't logical. Not always obvious,
but always logical. There wouldn't be a benefit to tapering these
pins, just the downside of jamming things tight. I have noticed that
when people replace these pins, they sometimes make them a tad long,
and the ends burr up when they tighten down the handle. This can
make pulling a handle sort of fun ;-( If it gets really snug, don't
overlook wooden wedges to press things apart without causing damage.
I've made a few from maple for odd jobs just like this, where even
the small CalVan 2 jaw puller just won't fit. Stan
(4867) |
| Scott, The
pins are about 1/4" long, and are not tapered. Hold the
Acme-threaded screw vertical, handle down, and see if light taps on
the handle will dislodge the pin. Often times dirt, grease, oil or
rust will hold them. Go easy, or you risk damage to the threads at
the end of the shaft. Don't rest the threaded end of the shaft on
anything hard, as it is quite soft. Joe (4899) |
| Remove worm
from apron? |
| Any advice
for removing the worm from the apron on a 10L. Are those collars
threaded? Right or left hand threads? I made a couple of spanner
wrenches but no luck so far. Joe
(4876) |
| I had my 9" apron apart and the collar was threaded right hand.
I don't recall having a problem unscrewing it. Glen (4879) |
| Now that I think about it,
I believe that there was a pin that goes through the key, the worm
and the collar. Pull out the key and the collar should unscrew. Glen
(4880) |
| The pin
was the problem. I had to browse the parts manual to find it.
(4881) |
| Joe I've
never tried it on my 10L, but SB Form 992C, dated 4/5/65 (which
describes updating a knob clutch to a lever clutch) says the
following, somewhat reworded to account for not having the
associated figure. Remove the half nut gib and half nuts Remove the
key (which engages the lead screw) Mark the position of the collars
holding the worm gear (to allow returning to original position on
reassembly) Drive out the 2 pins (where the picture shows them
apparently in the threaded collars, at right angles to the lead
screw) Unscrew both collars (no mention of LH) Remove bushing (shown
behind collar at half-nut end), being careful to avoid tearing felt
wick Remove apron worm By the way, the screw at the center of the
knob clutch (it you have that rather than the lever) is LH. Frank
(4895) |
| Spindle
Removal: Folly or not? |
| I have a perfectly
running spindle. Should I remove it just to clean and repaint the
headstock or is this just stupid and asking for trouble? Joe V.
(4907) |
| Well, I wouldn't say
"stupid" but I think yes, you are asking for trouble. Mask
everything off very carefully, and leave the spindle in place. Scott Logan (4908) |
| Joe; I
guess the question to ask is what lathe do you have? A workshop C
with solid bearings is a piece of cake to pull. An old 13 with split
bronze is easy, but count your shims and get things back as they
came out. On some other lathes this can be a bigger deal. Sometimes
it comes down to which is more of a hassle - masking and painting
around things, or tearing down and getting things back in line.
Stan (4911) |
| Removing tool
post holder |
| How do I remove
the tool post holder, I am trying to clean up the 9" and have not
figured out how to dissemble all the apron parts. Clint
(5888) |
| Start
by removing the feedscrew from the compound, you need to do this
before you remove it to take advantage of having it attached to the
machine as an anchor, you may have to really torque the thing to get
it off. Once you have the feedscrew out then go ahead and remove the
whole compound. There are 2 setscrews that hold the compound to the
apron and removing them will allow the compound to come off of the
saddle. Loosen up all the screws and remove the gib. Drive the round
brass feedscrew nut out the bottom of the compound assembly and
*now* you can separate the 2 halves of the compound. Clean, repaint
and assemble in reverse order Dave (5889) |
| I finally was
able to get the screw out of the CR Top, the nut is stripped out,
now I still need to separate the CR top from the swivel, the only
way I see to do this is get the nut out. What is the trick to remove
the nut, since it is between the top and swivel and there is not
enough room to drive it inward? Clint
(5948) |
| It
comes out to the bottom. JWE (5949) |
| So are you
saying that it would be better to use a prybar and get in between
the two pieces and try to pry it out or is there another trick to
get it out? Clint (5950) |
| Like
Dave said this morning use a fairly large screwdriver and make sure
you take the retaining screw out first. See attached drawing, item
54 is the lock screw that retains the item 55 feed nut. Once that is
removed it should push out to the bottom fairly easy. JWE (5952) |
| JWE Thanks,
that is what I wanted to confirm, I am wanting to confirm every
thing that I do this first time that I tear it down, as the guy that
was helping me, stripped the nut somehow, so I am going to be sure
that now more mishaps will happen. Clint(5960) |
| Clint, I hate
to be retentive but I've already told you twice how to get it out
spray it with penetrating oil turn it back and forth until it
loosens up then use a small pry-bar or a large flathead screwdriver
to push it down thru the bottom. Pictures are attached. Dave
(6009) |
| Dave If you
will look at my previous post, I said that I had already got it out.
And that the threads are messed up, I will need another brass nut to
replace this one.
Clint (6010) |
| Clint, I
haven't played with it but I wonder if you could use something like
JB weld to create new threads. I wouldn't want to price one thru SB
but on the other hand it shouldn't be too hard to turn a piece of
brass to the same dimensions and then new threads into the plug.
Dave (6011) |
| Dave I think
this nut could be repaired if I had something to chase the threads
with, somehow this nut has a messed up end like someone beat it with
something I even tried screwing the screw back through it and could
not. I bought this saddle/compound off ebay. UPS broke the handle
off the main crossfeed screw also, I am thinking of putting a screw
through the handle on that repair. What do you suggest for me to use
to chase the threads with? Clint (6014) |
| Cleaning new
lathe (dismantling) |
| I just got a new
(old) lathe, and I want to clean it. Is there anything I can damage
taking it apart? Are there any difficult to reproduce settings or
adjustments I can alter taking it apart? Is there anything I should
pay special attention to? The lathe is a South Bend 16", model #
117-E.
(6114) |
| I just got a booklet called "Keep Your Lathe in
Trim" written by South Bend in the 40's. It's published by
Lindsay. It seems to address adjustments of belts, bearings,
tailstock, etc. There is also a "Lubrication Chart" and a
"Installation, Operation Maintenance Parts Manual" from South Bend.
They cover things like removing the spindle pulleys back gears from
the headstock. I suppose they would be available from Leblond
www.leblondusa.com.
If you follow their too brief procedures for disassembly I don't
think you can hurt really anything, but some of the adjustments may
be real time wasters. Hence some thought might be order before
tearing into it. Still you have to get things apart to clean paint.
My 9" Model A is apart for stripping and painting so I haven't had a
chance to try the adjustment stuff. I'm new at this so some wiser
folks no doubt have better thoughts. You must really feel great to
have a 16 incher online. Mike
(6117) |
| For the most
part you are pretty safe dismantling things. Actually you can
dismantle everything and get it back together, but in some cases
with some fussy adjustment procedures, as Mike mentioned. If the
spindle bearings in the headstock appear to be in reasonable
adjustment, a good way to limit the likelihood of precision tweaking
is to leave the spindle bearings in the headstock alone, and not
disassemble them. Everything else is reasonably easy to get back in
reasonable adjustment. If you also leave the headstock clamped to
the bed you eliminate another place where adjustment is critical
(but not hard, unless somebody has put in some shims or some such).
You are pretty safe dismantling the carriage, apron, compound, QC
gearbox, gear train from the spindle, back gears, belt drive system,
etc. It is probably good practice to mark everything so you get all
the parts back in the same relative position, even where they are
symmetric (like gears), just so all the wear patterns are preserved.
Frank (6125) |
| I don't know
this particular model, if it is one with split bearings in the
headstock, keep track of the number and locations of all shims. Get
Ziplock bags and a sharpie marker, and put the paper shims that may
be between the bearing halves and the castings in individual bags
labeled for location, and the same for the shims between the bearing
caps and headstock casting. If this has a top lever style QC
gearbox, there are several tapered pins through the roots of the
gears on the shafts, to find them you'll likely need to scrape the
crud out of the roots of all the gears. If you aren't going to
repaint, don't tear down the gearbox if you can help it, there are
some spring loaded detents to keep track of if you do. Put all the
gears and spacers on a wire in the order they come off the shafts in
the gearbox to help keep things in order. Stan (6126) |
| Chuck removal
question |
| I still
cannot seem to remove my 3 jaw chuck. I have had my lathe only a
couple of weeks now and I think the last owner really over tightened
it. Its so tight, I'm not sure if I'm turning it in the right
direction because it won't move in either direction... I lock my
spindle from turning, insert a chuck wrench into one of the holes,
and tried "whacking" it with a rubber mallet in the direction the
chuck would normally turn as if it was cutting. Still, it won't
turn, now what? Philip (6127) |
| Put a 10 inch
crescent wrench on one
of the the jaws and smack that . You are certain I assume that the
chuck screws on? One of my lathes has sets screws that have to be
loosened before the chuck is screwed off. A few times I have had to
really get rough with my lathe to get the chuck off. Steel hammer
against a long crescent wrench. Never done it before but some guys
open the jaws of the chuck out a long ways. Align a wooden board to
jam between one of the jaws and the backside ways of your
machine. With the backgears of your machine engaged and spindle
rotation speed at maximum slow .Jog the spindle in reverse
direction. I aint recommending it , but something will give.
Alphawolf45
(6129) |
| AlphaWolff45,
You where right about the set screws. At least I think you were, or
I just whacked that chuck a LOT harder. I saw 3 hex screws on the
face of my 3 jaw and I just loosened them a turn or two. Then
inserted the bar between the jaws as you described and whacked away.
It worked great! Philip (6137) |
| Motor mount
removal |
| I found a
reversible 1 hp motor to put on my lathe. This motor does not fit
the hole patterns on the motor mount. This is a lathe with the motor
mounted in a heavy cast compartment below. Heavy 13 it may be
called. I would like to take the motor mount plate off to drill it
for the new holes. This plate pivots from the rear on a 3/4 inch
hinge pin that is accessible through a hole in the side of the
compartment and through the open door on the right side. There is a
small shoulder on the right and a tapered point on the left so it
needs to be pushed through from right to left using the little hole
in the casting to get at it The trouble is I cant get the pin out.
It is not rusty. I can turn it about 10 degrees and move it in and
out about 1/16 on an inch. IT gets tight when I try to tap it out. I
can find no grub screw or circlip in it anywhere. I don't want to hit
it too hard for fear of breaking the cast ears that the pin goes
through. It acts like there is some kind of keeper on the pin but I
can find none. Jim(6259) |
| Might be a tapered
pin and your pulling on the small end?? Or striking the large end?
I'm not familiar with the particular details, I'm just taking wild
guesses! Anthony
(6269) |
| I had the exact
same thing with my heavy 10. I took a piece of 1/2" plate and made
an adapter plate. I drilled, tapped, and countersank holes to bolt
the plate to the stand, and to mount the motor to the plate. You can
move the mounting point for the motor front to back so the holes
don't overlap, as long as you clear the sides of the cast iron
compartment. This was easier than it sounds.
(6270) |
| The more I think about it, I realize
that there has to be some kind of keeper on it. Yup I am hitting on
the small end :) Ill get the halogen search light out and a wire
wheel on a die grinder and go all over those cast lugs and try to
find it again. I couldn't imagine that they would put a big hinge
pin in there and expect it to stay with no securing method. My
neighbor has an electronic camera Ill try to get some pictures. If
all else fails the adaptor plate idea is good. Hitting it any harder
than I have already would not be very wise. Ill call that place
mentioned a couple days ago with my serial number and find out more
exactly what I have. As close as I can get now is that it is a heavy
13".
(6272) |
| Jim; My
neighbor redid his overhead drive SB15 a while back, the motor mount
is on a large pin. It seems there were painted over pins or set
screws in one of the two castings to secure the pin. It might have
been just one setscrew or pin in one of the four ears the pin runs
through. His lights are off, so I can't run over and check tonight,
but I'll try to get over there Wednesday and see if I can see how it
was secured or if he recalls the details. I know it took us a while
to find some of the things holding stuff together or the order
things had to come apart. Sometimes it was a bolt through the
casting that passed through a groove in something else. In one case
a leg bolt had actually been installed, then another hole was
drilled for the overhead drive that cut partially into the first
bolt, then the second hole was tapped, so there where partial
threads parallel to the shank of the first bolt. That one took a bit
to sort out! Such weirdness can make these old beasts interesting
eh? Stan (6276) |
| I
found the setscrew in it yesterday. It was around behind right where
I thought it should be. My brother found it in 5 seconds feeling
around the back of the lug just after I told him where it should be.
(6294) |
| Removing Apron
on 9" Model A |
| I have a SBL 9"
Model A that I'm giving a new paint job and am beginning to disassemble
to clean parts. I've removed the saddle and compound with no
problem. Anyone know how to remove the apron? Doesn't seem to want
to lift off. Is there some "key" magic part that needs to be
removed first? I'd like to remove it in order to do a thorough
cleaning, but I'm kind of stymied for the time being. Would it be
best to paint in-place? Jim (6467) |
| You have
to remove the tailstock end leadscrew support, make sure the
half-nuts are disengaged and then slide the apron down to the end
and off the lathe. Dave (6468) |
| Dave, just what I needed. I was afraid I was going to have to remove
the gear box. The two lead screw support screws were right in front
of me, but I didn't see 'em. Kind of a relief!
Jim (6470) |
| Dismantling
Heavy 10 Tailstock |
| I'm in
the process of cleaning up a South Bend Heavy 10 lathe. I have the
tailstock apart with the exception of the collar that I believe is
pressed into the back of the quill hole. It is a knurled part with 3
zeros stamped into it. Can I drive this out with a hammer and a
piece of aluminum, or by chance, is it pinned or threaded in?
(6794) |
| Threaded;
Right-Hand. Use a strap wrench. (6800) |
| If you are
talking about the collar behind the wheel, I think that will be
threaded Clint (6808) |
| I've got an
early heavy 10 in bits myself - if we are talking about the same
thing mine is a threaded small casting and includes a hexagon. The
part I'm referring to is between the rear of the main tailstock
casting and the handwheel (supports the handwheel spindle) and
simply unscrews (on mine anyway). Dave (6810) |
| I removed it by unscrewing it. Somehow with all the
layers of paint it just was not obvious to me how it was installed.
(6840) |
| 10"
Compound Rest Screw Removal |
| I'm into
the tear down of a newly acquired Heavy 10 so that it can be cleaned
up and repainted. I have the compound rest partially apart with the
swivel removed. I would like to remove the screw but I'm not quiet
clear on how it is assembled. In the solid collar behind the movable
micrometer collar I see a hole, but it does not appear to have a set
screw of any kind. Do you grab hold of this with a strap wrench and
turn it out (RHT I assume)? Is it pinned anywhere? Can you leave
the handle and micrometer collar assembled when removing the screw
(as an assembly)?
(6882) |
| The
hole is for a spanner wrench. You unscrew the bushing to remove the
whole screw assembly (RHT), then you push out the nut from the
inside with a screwdriver or bent prybar. I think there was a
setscrew for the leadscrew nut, too. Glen (6883) |
| Spindle
removal |
| I have a precision
Mod A Cat #344ZN Bed SN 16530NKR7 , underdrive. First, I need a nice
42" bed. The one I have has approx 0.023" wear on the carriage ways.
Any help appreciated. Second, given the amount of bed wear, how do I
tell if the saddle is worn beyond salvage?? Third, the other parts
seem good. I do have a click and slight drag that seems to be from
the spindle thrust bearing. How do I remove the spindle to access
this bearing? I have the lock ring off of the rear of the shaft and
there is some movement but it seems that the bull gear is preventing
the shaft from sliding out the front.
(7160) |
| On mine I
took the lock ring off and loosened the bearing cap bolts and drove
the spindle out towards the tailstock with a block of wood and a
hammer...the bullgear was the culprit. The bullgear is a loose
pressfit on the spindle on mine...made worse by 70 years of crud. On
my Workshop 9 the key for the bullgear sits deep enough in teh
spindle it clears the bearing. I understand on some you have to
slide the spindle a bit one way then the other then pull the key
then drive the spindle out the rest of the way. At least that is how
it was explained to me. (7161) |
| Dumb
Disassembly question |
| I
recently picked up a milling attachment for my 9" Workshop. It was
suggested to me to come up with a way to mount it in place of the
compound rest swivel. However, a quick look at the lathe didn't
enlighten me as to how the compound rest swivel was held onto the
lathe. Are the two screws that lock the rotation of the compound
rest also what holds it in place? Or is there some other bit that's
keeping everything together? I figured I'd ask before I started
tearing stuff apart, on the off chance that there's some kinda
psycho alignment that has to be done or something like that. Again,
my goal is to get an easy quick way to swap the milling attachment
on and off the lathe, keeping it as low as possible and preserving
some way to rotate it to line it up perpendicular to the chuck axis.
Mark
(7999) |
| You've
got it. Just back them off about 1/4". The screws push on a wedge
shaped rod that bears on a v groove in the compound swivel. You
might have to jiggle the compound a bit to get the rods to back off.
John (8000) |
| The
compound swivel has a dovetail plug that drops into a bore on the
cross slide. The two square head bolts press on bits of shaft with
beveled ends to lock the swivel. To remove, you have to back out
the square head bolts enough to allow the beveled bits of shaft they
bear on to clear the swivel plug - a bit less than 1/4 inch. Just
loosen them up until you can wiggle the swivel up and off - no
hidden surprises or unexpected tricks needed. If the compound hasn't
been off in a long time, old oil varnish can interfere with the bits
of shaft sliding back to clear the dovetail, if you run into this
remove the square head bolts completely, squirt in a little WD40 or
kerosene, and wiggle the compound a bit while pulling up. Once the
compound is off, push out the beveled shafts and clean things up so
you don't have the same hassle next time. Stan (8011) |
| Removing stuck
screw |
| I want to remove
the apron and clean and oil it. There are 2 large screws on top.
There are stuck hard and fast. What are some techniques to getting
them loose. I know this is mechanics 101 stuff but that's where I
am. Currently I have the following thoughts. 1. BIG screwdriver with
square shank for use of wrench-assist results: nill. in fact some
slight damage to slot (which seems unusually shallow). 2. Take big
screwdriver and hit it real hard with hammer (while it is standing
straight up in the slot ) and then try to turn. result: nothing 3.
Continue to soak with penetrating oil result: painted top. may need
to use blade to scrape out paint to let oil seep into screw edge
4.Take cold chisel and try to rotate screw by hammering while point
of chisel is off center. result: nothing 5.Take heavy soldering gun
and heat screw and hope it will expand and contract at different
rate then rest of metal and perhaps loosen up things. Perhaps put
ice on it to cool it rapidly. (OK probably screws up hardness,
temper, etc. ??) results: have not tried yet. 6.Use a screw
extracting "bit" (any techniques here?. I can imagine having the bit
broken off in the screw or jammed in it and sticking up like a
little flag pole. Guess I need to center punch the slot, drill a
hole, and then use extractor (which I have never used before).
results: have not used yet. NOTE: Are these top-of-apron screws
common and easy to replace or are they like all the SB stuff and
worth their weight in gold. if you can find them?) 7.Use one of
those tools I saw in Home Depot that you hammer and it hammers on
the screw and turns at same time. result: have not bought that tool
yet 8.Be happy with never seeing the inside of the apron. 9.Take C4
explosives. Hugh
(9047) |
| My
machinist brother-in-law swears by the sprayable Navel (sp?) Jelly
to loosen up frozen bolts and screws. He says spray it on, let it
soak for a day or two (be patient), and voila. I have used the
impact screwdrivers, and if it is really stuck, they will just tear
up the slot. I would try everything else first. I'm guessing that
the apron has never been off since new, and you have rust in the
threads ("time-weld"). I would also slide the carriage off, and
spray the edge where the saddle and apron join. Bob
(9048) |
| PS: When you
get it all back together, put something on the threads (like an
anti-seize) to prevent the problem in the future. bob
(9050) |
| Option seven
(impact driver) is a good way to go - if your screws are standard
they are actually deep so need the crud digging out. I've had my
apron apart recently (the whole lathe in fact) and and a hammer type
impact driver was invaluable. Dave (9051) |
| Those screws
are supposed to be in there tight, but it seems that its too tight.
do you think it might be paint that has glued everything shut? try
paint stripper or brush cleaner to penetrate. I don't think
penetrating oil would soften the paint. Carb cleaner might do it
too. hand held impact would be the way to go. option 7? dennis
(9052) |
| Hugh C4, Hmmm, I've had a couple frozen ones that that would be tempting.
Just this past week I took my apron off for a look-see on swarf
build-up and was surprised how badly the slot on those two screw
heads had gunked up since last inspection (about 10-12 mos). That is
a well machined screw and has a good size slot when cleaned out, so
get an icepick or something and get that paint and packed grease/oil
out. Then, I agree on having to use an impact driver, will probably
take that much oomph to break loose. Anyway, that tool is nice to
have around the shop, and they are cheap enough. I also agree on
removing the apron assy from the bed and get it on some blocks or
some sort of jig so you can get a solid base to work from and not be
whanging on your lathe bed. bill (9056) |
| I just went
through this a couple of weeks ago. I ended up using "7", the hand
impact driver. I removed the entire saddle/apron assembly by sliding
it off the right hand side of the bed before doing any pounding.
Once I got it apart, it was clear the root problem was paint gluing
the screw in place. If I were doing it again, I would start by
letting a pool of paint stripper sit on it for a couple of days. I
was planning on stripping mine anyway though. I found 4 oil points
that I hadn't even suspected under the paint. Ed (9063) |
| Hugh; I
made a driver bit to fit mine from drill rod using the mill. You
could grind the flats if you don't have a mill. I put a hex end on
mine so I could press down hard on the back side of a ratchet while
I turned the screw out. Without a mill, I'd grind a pair of flats
for a large adjustable wrench, and use a large clamp with a block of
wood under the apron to hold the bit firmly in the slot. Get it
moving maybe an eighth of a turn, loosen the clamp slightly, repeat.
No beating, torching, or other unpleasantness required this way.
I've also ground a giant screwdriver that was handy to fit the
slots. It won't break the screws loose, but it makes quick work of
the job during annual teardown. The important thing is to have the
screwdriver faces parallel and snugly fitted to the entire slot,
rather than the loose undersized fit you get with a smaller
screwdriver that has the normal tapered faces. Think clock makers or
gunsmiths screwdriver on steroids :-) My neighbor ground a drag link
socket to fit the apron on his 15 incher and used an air impact
wrench. Hand driven impact tools tend to apply a lot of force into
the screw. Air impact wrenches tend to turn and hammer
counterclockwise rather than hammer into the work. For varnished in
smaller stuff a cordless impact gun is pretty handy to use, but
expensive if you don't already have one. Stan (9072) |
| Hugh,
First, soak it with one of the penetrating oils, naval jelly or the
like. Second, thoroughly clean the slots in the screw so the driver
can bottom. Third, which ever screw driver you use, make sure that
it is a good tight fit in the slot, if necessary grind it to make it
fit also make it slightly concave so it won't try and ride out as
you apply torque. If it's really stuborn an air impact wrench works
better than the regular hammer type. Bernard (9104) |
| I have to
disagree on this one. The hammer type WILL stay in the slot. The air
impact wrench will come out and mess up the slot. Bin there, done
that. Ed (9105) |
| Ed, One of
the interesting things about groups are the different experiences.
I've used both methods in the past, the impact type before I had the
air tool, with the air tool I usually adjust the regulator for
minimum torque and work up from there. Which ever tool you use, the
key with slot screws is having a well fitting blade without rounded
corners. Bernard (9107) |
| 16" SBL motor
removal? |
| It is now
time for me to have my motor rebuilt on my 16" SBL. I have labeled
all my wires, dropped it down from its perch, and now I find it will
NOT fit through the little door on the front OR the two smaller
vents (one on the left one on the right) just beneath the gear box.
This lathe weighs over 2000 pounds and dropping the motor through
the hole in the bottom (base) would require me lifting the lathe up.
I don't see that happening. If anyone has done this, or knows how to
do the task, please let me know. Philip
(9407) |
| Philip,
The only other way I can figure getting the motor out might be to
disassemble the motor in the box. If you are replacing the motor
maybe cutting the shaft off would help. I have lifted heavier with a
good RR jack and blocks. Of course, be very careful if lifting is
your plan! Jeff (9409) |
| You could do
that, however, how you get the new motor in? Jim (9410) |
| I would suspect
that newer=smaller
(9411) |
| Two gear through up.
(9422) |
| Jeff, I am
going to have my old motor rebuilt, therefore cutting it up is not
for me. I may try disassembling it but then I will have to
disassemble the freshly rebuilt motor as well, and then reassemble
it once its back inside the stand. What's a RR jack?(9423) |
| Jim, I may
have to take it apart, its seems as though its a lot safer then
picking up the whole lathe. I think I would have to raise it about
12" because the motor is about 10" in diameter.
(9424) |
| Philip Is the
part of the cabinet that contains the motor a separate piece? If so
you could unbolt it from the lathe, lift the lathe an inch or so and
remove the pedestal. With good blocking and a small hydraulic jack,
2000 lbs wouldn't be than hard to lift. John (9425) |
| John, I think
you are right! I CAN unbolt the lathe from the massive cabinet, this
way I would only have to lift the bed off the cabinet, and NOT lift
the entire lathe 12 inches off the motor! I will look around the top
of the cabinet for bolts to see what I can find. I will let you
know. I think you might have solved my
problem. Philip (9427) |
| I
should have been clearer. I'm referring to a railroad jack. They
usually have a real low pickup point 1 or 2 inches from the ground.
Therefore with a good prybar and short block, you could get the
lathe to jack level with one lift. Its a relatively simply idea.
lift a couple of inches and block, lift a few more and block. Oak
blocks are nice, but I've lifted 6K lbs + with good quality pine 4x4s
and 6x6s. Take your time and be careful if this is what you do. Have
somebody help you with the work. It is possible to lift great
amounts of weight this way to much higher elevations than 12". Any
lifting or rigging is always dangerous business. If you don't feel
safe about it don't do it. Jeff (9430) |
| I am
pondering something related - and have been looking at the Harbor
Freight Cranes.. I have seem some interesting variants on what
these things can do. A crane and adequate 4x4 should do most of
the trick. Safety was my number one concern on this. There are
front end loaders and bobcats that can be rented to. jr
(9480) |
| I
just wanted to thank everyone for suggesting ways to remove that
weak motor I had from my SB. Like I said, I did NOT want to have to
lift the entire lathe over the motor. Since the motor was to BIG to
fit through the door, I just disassembled the motor into 3 main
parts instead. I was even able to increase the Hp up to a 2 Hp (up
from a 1 1/2 Hp) while still maintaining the correct motor RPMs.
Philip (9561) |
| Removing
compound |
| Can someone tell me
how I remove the compound from my 9" model B. I thought by removing
the two set screws, I could just pick up on it and it would come
right out, but it won't budge. Al (10099) |
| You talk about two
set screws. I don't know about a model B. I have a C, but looking at
a parts blowup, it doesn't show two set screws. I have a single
square headed screw on the side of the cross feed. This pushes on
something called a shoe which fits into a tapered grove on the base
of the compound. If you back off the screw and the shoe does not
release the compound will not come out. The drawings I have don't
show two set screws only a single screw holding the cross feed.
There does not seem to be a difference between the B and the C. (10117) |
| I had an old 405Y
(similar to a C) which had one set screw, and upgraded with an A
carriage assembly, which has two. In both cases, the screws drove a
"dog" with a bias cut face against the tapered "plug" which sits in
the cross slide. My first question is: Does the compound swing or
rotate when you loosen the screws? If not, you probably have a rust
or "gunk" seizure problem which might be cured by light sideways
tapping with a non-steel mallet. If that doesn't free it up, I would
liberally squirt any of a number of penetrants around the bottom,
let it sit for about 24 hours, and whack it again. During this time,
you might crank the cross slide completely off the gibs (away from
you as you look at it), turn it upside down, and squirt it from the
bottom side. You might also discover another problem. If the
compound rotates, I would guess that those "dogs" have become
frozen, and I would give them the penetrant treatment after removing
the two set screws. You might also put a brass drift in the set
screw hole and give them a light tap to free them up. I sometimes
have difficulty removing my compound because the tolerances are so
tight. It helped to run a file lightly around the edge of the
tapered plug, and oil it before reassembly. Much easier now. I
suspect that the likely culprit is rust or crud, and when you get it
apart, you should clean it and oil it thoroughly before reassembly.
I would also run a stiff brush through the setscrew holes to clean
them up, as I have a feeling this is where your problem lies. I
would also see if the dogs are cruddy, and clean them up with a wire
brush, and oil them thoroughly before putting them back in. They
should move freely. Bear in mind that they have to be oriented
correctly to work. That is, the "sharp" edge should be "up" so that
it mates correctly with the plug. When you get this apart, you
should see immediately what I am talking about if this description
doesn't make sense. One other thing: I have seen compounds where the
plug that seats in the cross-slide has been broken off and either
drilled and bolted back on, or brazed together. Either one of these
"fixes" could be causing you trouble, and if this is the case, I
strongly recommend shopping for a used compound. They turn up often
on ebay. Bob (10119) |
| Al, I will give a
try. The 2 big set screws only release pressure on the brass plugs
behind each set screw. If these are "glued" in place by old
grease/oil you will have to remove the crosslide, turn it over and
saturate the bottom area of the topslide boss with penetrating fluid
while turning it back forth . Also pour some in each setscrew hole.
Eventually the topslide boss tapers will shift the plugs out
allowing the boss to slide out. Mineral spirits will probably do ok
or carb cleaner. RichD (10120) |
| Loosen the two
square head bolts that secure the compound. You have to take them
almost all of the way out, or just remove them completely. There are
bevel faced pushers under these screws that lock the dovetail base
down. Once the screws are removed, with some wiggling, the compound
should come off. If it gets loose but won't come out completely,
squirt some kerosene/WD40/something safe on paint in the screw holes
and under the compound, let sit, and try again. Sometimes old oil
and grunge hardens up enough to keep the puchers from retracting far
enough to completely release the compound. Stan(10121) |
| Take the two set
screws out (there are two shoes in the hole and they are stuck, so
spray PB or Liquid wrench into both holes. Then use your
rubber/plastic hammer to give it a medium lick on all four
directions. When it comes off, get the shoes out and coat them with
lubriplate grease or some other lube so they stay free in the
future. Darrell (10122) |
| It seems clear that
my brass plugs must be stuck. I'll lube, rotate, and use some gentle
persuasion on it. Al (10124) |
| I have a heavy 10
or 10L as it is sometimes referred to. It has two set screws at
aprox. 45 deg. each side of center facing toward the rear of the
lathe. They have a ramp on the front that has to be backed out so
you can see aprox. 1/4" of the set screw to clear the compound
tapered stud mount. Stefan (10126) |
| Removing Motor
Mount Plate SB 13 |
| Anyone know off the
top of their head how to remove the motor mounting plate on a SB
13"? The front is attached by a bolt that adjusts pulley tension and
the rear is hinged on a large pin. I don't see anything holding the
pin in place but light tapping with a hammer isn't moving it. Do I
just need to use a larger hammer? I'm replacing the 3 phase 1hp
original motor with a 110 1.5hp motor and I need to tap new mounting
holes in the plate. Worst case I could do it in place but it'll be a
lot easier if I can get the plate off. Sam B. (10307) |
| I haven't looked at
the machine, but from what I see in the exploded parts diagram in
the SB service manual, there may be a set screw located at the rear
of the left boss on the countershaft casting. Maybe that will help,
but remember that sometimes a little info is worse than none at all.
(10309) |
| I take it this is a
underdrive unit? Couple questions. Do u plan on belt replacement?
Will your replacement motor fit in space allowed? This may be a
good time to rebelt. stirboy (10310) |
| Mine had a setscrew
holding the hinge pin in. Reaching through the left side door you
should be able to feel this setscrew on the backside of the lug that
holds the pin. I had problems finding mine because it had a coating
of crud covering it. (10324) |
| Hand wheels
|
| How are the knob
that projects from the hand wheels fastened? are they pressed in or
screwed in? Does anyone have a method for disassembling them without
destroying the wheel or the knob? (10787) |
| It appears that you
are writing about the handle that projects from the rim of the
handwheel. If that is the case; they are usually a press-fit into a
blind hole. The hole diameter is most often 1/4". It may be greater
on some of the larger wheels. It is fairly easy to "guesstimate" the
hole center location on the back-side. Drill a small hole, and use a
punch to remove the handle. If desired; the hole can then be drilled
through. Another way is to make a wedge-type tool, and drive it
between the handle and rim. bmurray63 (10789) |
| Half-Nut Lever |
| I have been
following the Model A drive line correspondence with interest. On
mine the half-nut lever is off the machine but I do have it,
however, it does not seem to want to go back into it's hole, the
spring dentent is there and I can see that it should fit through a
gap. Anyone got a neat idea about this? Keith (10871) |
| You need to loosen
the screw that backs up the spring that pushes the pin into the
lever detent groove. (In the house that Jack built). Glen (10872) |
| It occurs to me
that the "detent" you are talking about may be the interlock pin
that keeps the half nuts and the clutch drive from engaging at the
same time. Make sure the crossfeed/longitudinal feed lever is in the
neutral or center position and push the pin out of the way. Glen
(10873) |
| Spindle
disassembly procedure? |
| I've been removing
things ( and boiling them in a TSP solution to degrease and paint
strip ) and am now at the point where I need to disassemble the
spindle. I've removed the covers, back gear stuff and rear threaded
ring. I THINK that the only thing holding the spindle in place is a
key in the bull gear, and so I THINK all I have to do is press/whack
the spindle out. However, this is sorta the heart of the lathe and
so before I do something, is this the appropriate procedure? Alan
(12412) |
| Yes, (a shoulder
on) the spindle is a light press fit in the bull gear. There is a
key in there too, but it does not affect the press fit. You'll also
find a spring-loaded wick in each bearing, at the underside of the
spindle. When you re-install the spindle, you can hold these wicks
below the surface of the bearing bores by inserting stiff wires into
the bearing breather holes. (12413) |
| QC Gear
assembly |
| Someone please send
me a photo of the gearbox assembly. I've had it to bits and am not
certain I have it right. Have put the Headstock assembly back
together. Why the fiber washer behind the split nut? Is the oiler on
the front top left of the gear case a push fit? It is broken but
does not want to unscrew. Any suggestions? (12569) |
| The fiber washer is
supposed to run between the headstock casting and the split nut - it
keeps the oil from slinging out (although the groove in the casting
should do this. Also, it lets you take up the split nut to get the
proper lateral spindle adjustment. Recently there has been a trend
to discard the washer and replace it with needle bearings - there's
been a lot of discussion on this list - I did it and it it is a
SUPER idea! Lathe runs much smoother. check the archives - I forgot
who discovered this but he's a genius! Frank (12571) |
| Can you tell us the
number and brand of bearing you used, please? Gary P.(12572) |
| I don't have the
info here, but it is a needle thrust bearing from McMaster Carr -
check their website - and you buy the race and the thrust plates
separately. the whole sandwich fits very nicely. As I said, there's
a lot in the archives and the part number is listed there, I'm sure.
I would have to go back and look through last year's invoices. There
is only one that fits. Frank (12574) |
| Apron
disassembly question |
| I need to disassemble the
apron on my 9" model A. It's WAY too filthy to even consider using. I'm now at the
point where I have to remove the worm gear, only the worm itself (
appears to ) interfere with simply driving out the gear and shaft,
etc. But I can't see any other way TO get it out it's like the
gears were set in place and the apron cast around them! Alan (12658) |
| I
have been in exactly your situation. There is a pin which retains the
threaded lockring which prevents the worm from traveling
tailstockwards. I assume you have removed it and unthreaded the
lockring. Keeping the worm gear still, "thread" the worm tailstockwards
by turning it. The worm gear should come right off now, maybe with a
little persuasion. Another fun little feature is the longitudinal/cross
feed selector quadrant. It will often appear to be impossible to remove
due to the part of the casting which holds the worm shaft itself. Grind
a little off the interfering side of the quadrant if you encounter
this. Don't grind the apron casting as that face needs to remain a flat
surface and is difficult to do a good job with hand-held tools. The
casting tends to warp over time. Peter (12659) |
| I've figured it
out. There _was_ clearance. The protruding shaft was slightly
mushroomed, making it _appear_ as if the worm was jamming on the
gear. Sure hope it all goes back together. Alan (12660) |
| Spindle
Reassembly Advice |
| Could someone tell
me the right way to reassemble the spindle assemble on a 9" SBL.
Every time I try to slide the spindle through the large bearing -
through the bull gear, cone pulley and trust bearing into the small
bearing - the spindle catches on one or both of the oiler springs
and drags the spring into the bearing. I have to be doing something
wrong! (13217) |
| There is a tiny
hole in the side of the casting just above the oiler facing you.
Push the spring and felt down and push a piece of wire in this small
hole to hold down the springs. Then install the spindle and pull out
the wire to release the springs up onto the installed spindle.
Alex(13218) |
| No, just failing to
use a stiff wire through the drain hole to keep the spring down. If
you don't have drain holes, use the oil cap holes. Shove the wicks
down as far as you can and hold them. Then pull out the wires when
the spindle is in place. Peter(13219) |
| See the two little
1/8 diameter holes just above the oilers on the front? Compress the
felt/spring down into its well with your finger, and pass a 1/8 pin
or piece of wore through the little hole. After the shaft is
assembled into the housing, pull out the pins and the felts pop up.
That's what those "Nostrils" are for. I wondered, till I got one
head apart. (13222) |
| Difficult
Spindle Disassembly |
| I have a SB 9A that
I'm trying to get the spindle out of so I can install V-belt
pulleys. I've disassembled spindles before and have had to do some
tapping to get the spindles out and back on, and the headstock the
V-belt pulleys are coming off of was no different. My headstock
won't budge. There does not appear to have been any movement
whatsoever, even with more than light taps. I don't want to hammer
on it hard. I don't recall hearing about any quirks to this before
and I can imagine a bull gear being a tight press fit, but this
seems like more than that. About the only thing I've thought of is
to try heading the cone pulley and if I could think of a way of
simultaneously cooling the spindle bore, I'd try it. Rick (13309) |
| Not sure about
heating the cone pulley, but you can cool the spindle bore by
putting small chunks of dry ice into it. cork one end with a rag or
plug and stuff little pieces down the other with a ramrod. Smaller
chunks the better. Frank (13312) |
| Rick, Things almost
never come apart as they should. My spindle was stubborn too. Some
good penetrating oil wouldn't hurt. Put a block of wood on the end
of the spindle and tap it wit a hammer. If it doesn't budge just
keep whacking it harder. I had to hit mine pretty good to get it
out. Alex (13318) |
| Horz. Drive
Unit Countershaft Removal |
| I trying to remove
the countershaft from a horizontal drive unit. I loosen up the flat
belt pulley and the locking collar but the shaft won't come out. It
spins freely. What am I missing. Jim (13834) |
| Mine had 60 degree
points on the set screws and two screws each on the pulley and I
think the collars, too. Remove the screws completely to be sure they
clear the shaft. Use a drift and a big hammer. Glen (13835) |
| Location of
shift gear pin? |
| I have spent eons
of hours looking for the location of the little %$#@!* pin that goes
through the gear shift lever on my model A, 9"X48, 1947 SBL quick
change box. I've tried acid, filing, heat, ultra violet light, even
light tapping and no results. Maybe Rose has heard of a way to
locate and drive out this pin? (13917) |
| I am assuming that
you are referring to the pin that holds on the knob that you pull
out in order to shift gears. On the two lever (tumbler) gearbox
models, if you look at the outside end, there is a center drill
hole. If you look in that hole, you can often see (barely) the cross
pin. You may need to clean the crap out to see it. This will help in
locating the ends of the pin. The pin is a tapered type, so you will
still have to figure out which way to drive it out. I think the
single lever type are similar. Webb
(13918) |
| That pin in not
tapered, it is a straight pin. At least all the knobs that I have
disassembled have been. The parts list also shows it as a non-tapered
part. If you are careful you will be able put the same pin back in.
The suggestion to look in the end is a good one, that is what I had
to do to disassemble mine. Keep in mind that the knob will only fit
back one way and should be kept with the shaft that it came off of
as the location of the hole for the pin will vary widely. (13920) |
| My mistake. It is a
straight pin (1/8 x 7/8"). Steve is also right about the orientation
on the knob in relation to the tumbler pin. I apologize for the
incorrect info. A senior's moment I suppose. Webb (13921) |
| SB crank
handles |
| I am in the process
or cleaning and refurbishing a 10K sb lathe. Having trouble removing
cross feed and compound feed crank handles. Is there a special tool
to do so. If yes, where can I get one. If no then how. Vinny (14227) |
| Probably is a
correct tool but where you would get it from I have no idea. Try
taking a regular flat blade screwdriver the same size as the screw
nut and relieve the center with a disc grinder or bench grinder so
you clear the screw thread. Buggers up screw driver but you now have
a new " tool " for your SB. Ron (14228) |
| Ron: I had a sneaky
suspicion that is what I would have to do but though I would ask.
Vinny (14229) |
| We made a proper
tool to fit the nut slots on the mill, but you can make a perfectly
good substitute from a proper-sized screwdriver. Then, with the
little nut removed, just tap the handles off with a small mallet. It
is actually best to remove the complete screw with a strap wrench,
hold vertically, and tap down. The handle drives the screw via a
small 1/8 th pin. Sometimes it will tend to bind, and make for a
very stubborn removal. Just proceed slowly; with lots of patience.
The screw is very soft, and will damage easy. So, be cautious and
slow. Joe (14230) |
| I am going to try
to fabricate the tool for removing the crank handles today. Thanks
for the answerd to my query. Will let you know of my adventures in
making the tool. Here are more ?'s. Is it worth putting on a filler
( and what type) on to smooth the surface of my SB before I paint
it. I noticed that most people use a spray gun to apply the primers
and finish coats. Can one of there airless paint sprayers be used
instead. What type of primer paint would be recommended. Also where
can way wipes and the felt wicks that go in the slots for the same
lathe be had. Vinny (14241) |
| I used industrial
urethane enamel paint on my machine, its solvent resistant, low
price and easy to apply. Felt wicking can be had from Leblond,
precut for a couple of bucks a piece. They have a $35 minimum. You
can get the SAE F1 or F3 felt material from McMasters. You have
wipes on the saddle and tailstock, wicking in the apron and in the
spindle head. You will need a couple of sizes of felt rope and a
couple of sizes of felt strip. At least on the CL187, not sure
what's on the other models. JP(14243) |
| Built the tool for
removing the crank handles from an old screwdriver last PM. Works
like a charm. Vinny (14257) |
| Removing Cross
Slide Dial |
| I want to take my
cross slide dial off and shim it as I've got some slop there. I got
the slotted screw/nut off, but am not sure where to go from there. I
see a pin running longitudinally (parallel) to the threaded shaft,
but not sure if it's a press fit or what. I assume brass shim stock
will work. Is there any guidance on how much "slop" is allowed (fore
and aft movement)? Dave (14405) |
| Dave, That pin is a
key, it comes right out when you pull the handle off and taps back
in afterwards. Not sure of the clearance in the thrust bearing but I
have no perceivable slop on my lathe on these bearing. You can get
shim washers of various thicknesses and sizes for shoulder bolts
from industrial supply houses already punched with no burrs. JP
(14406) |
| Dave, messages
9950, 9955, 9959, 9972, 9993, 9999, 10057 make up a thread titled 9"
Cross Slide Slop Diagnosis Help "PG Offline" makes it easy to search
out such as this. Johnny (14410) |
| I understand what
folks are saying but how does the handle come off? I hesitate to use
anything with any force (spell that hammer). I will still have some
slop with the feedscrew, but I hope to eliminate a bit through the
handle/dial. Dave (14421) |
| Undo that small nut
that holds it on - you will need to grind something to fit it. Then
pull and/or pry the handle off, that small pin will either stay on
the shaft or come off with the handle - don't lose it!!! That handle
comes straight off the shaft. It won't go easy, you are probably the
first to remove that thing since it left the factory. Alex (14422) |
| Dave, I did the
same thing a while back. I came close to making a 'puller' to remove
the handle. BTW, I didn't shim the dial thou. If your REAL careful
you can take the play out by cutting the appropriate amount of the
appropriate shoulder of the shaft. This is a good opportunity to
make an expensive mistake. Use caution. Larry (14423) |
| Dave, Once the nut
is off you just pull, sometimes it takes a tug or two. If it won't
come off, squirt in a bit of kroil, karosene, whatever you like to
loosen up old oil varnish, wait overnight, and try again. Usually
does the job. If that doesn't work you can put pieces of wood behind
the arms of the handle and use a two jaw puller. An extra pair of
hands can be real useful if it comes to this. A length of cord
looped around the handle with a weight on the end can be also be
used, in the same manner as a slide hammer. If the assembly is off
of the lathe, you can put the nut back on far enough to protect the
threads, hold the assembly between your knees, pull up on the
handle, and tap on the nut with a brass hammer. A bit awkward, but
it works. The nut being partially on also helps you keep the main
part of the assy from dropping when the handle pops loose. The more
of these tear downs you so the more oddball tricks you find. Stan
(14424) |
| Use a hammer and
brass punch, aluminum rod works also. If you need weasel wizz to
loosen it get some 'Break Free CLP' from your local gun shop. JP
(14427) |
| I used a center
punch in the center drilled screw. I held the assembly by the handle
with the screw hanging down and tapped the punch until the rest of
the stuff fell down. I caught it between my knees before it hit the
floor. Glen (14433) |
| BTW, I didn't shim
the dial thou. If your REAL careful you can take the play out by
cutting the appropriate amount of the appropriate shoulder of the
shaft. This is a good opportunity to make an expensive mistake. Use
caution. I did "make" a puller for the cross feed handle. I used a
large washer (9/16") and slotted it about 5/8" wide to slip behind
the center ball of the handle. I filed the edges round so it
wouldn't leave marks. Then my small gear puller could easily pull it
off. I have saved the washer for the next time. I think a slightly
smaller washer would also work well on the compound handle but I
haven't needed to disassemble that one yet. I added standard 3/8" x
5/8" shim washers to take out the play. I purchased an assortment in
cold rolled steel and a package of .020" brass ones from McMaster. I
put the washers on the feedscrew before reassembly so they are on
the inside, not between the graduated dial and the casting where
they would make reading the position harder. They seem to fit there
as if it were planned that way. I used one brass shim for better
bearing properties and made up the rest with the steel ones. Paul A.
(14466) |
| Thank you for the
info about removing the cross slide dial (and on the shims). I'm
going to order the shims and get back to trying to get the dial off.
Dave (14476) |
| 10L Handwheel
and Ball Crank Removal |
| I have a SB 10L and
I'd like to remove the handwheel and ball cranks from the carriage
for cleaning and repainting, but I'm not sure how to do this. There
seems to be some strange nuts on the ball cranks that have to be
removed. Looks like they'll need a special tool, like a flat bladed
screw driver with a notch in the center of the blade. And is that a
tapered pin I see holding the carriage handwheel on its shaft?
What's the best way to remove the ball cranks and handwheel to avoid
damage to them?
(14727) |
| Take a screw driver
and grind a slot to fit the nut, if you are speaking of the round
pin in the handwheel, be careful as you pull the handle off, the pin
will come off with it and is easily dropped. Clint (14730) |
| Been there done
that. Knoch a screwdriver is the answer for the ball cranks. and Yes
it is a taper pin. they come out very easy once a little loose.
Watch out they don't go flying. (14734) |
| I got all of the
ball cranks and handwheels off without a hitch. They're all cleaned
up and I'm experimenting with rubber coating them right now (that
liquid tool dip stuff). (14740) |
| I came upon the same problem a couple
of months ago. I found a B D set of three nut driver tips for the
interchangeable screwdrivers, "the most popular sizes". I bought
three of the sets on sale at Wal-Mart for about a buck each,
figuring they were good for making special tooling. The 5/16" size
was about right for the SB-9 nuts. About a minute scribing lines on
it and about 4 or 5 minutes with the Dremel and an abrasive wheel
and I had a perfect driver for these nuts. And it stores in minimum
space as it does not have it's own handle. Much cheaper than a whole
screwdriver. Paul A. (15062) |
| Clutch removal
question |
| I'm restoring a 16"
x 8' South Bend from about 1930. This is one with bronze insert
bearings in the headstock and a single-wall apron i.e. the works are
mostly exposed. Aside from a slipping feed clutch, she runs very
well. I want to get the clutch out so I can find out why it slips.
My question is this: Can I pull the clutch without removing the
apron? I ask because the apron is massive and currently don't have
equipment to handle the weight. Tom (14752) |
| You may be
able to remove the tapered clutch disk from the threaded shaft /
knob by removing the cotter pin and unscrewing the knob. To remove
the worm wheel with the tapered female portion of the clutch
required that the lead screw worm be removed from the apron, maybe a
few other bits and pieces as well. I haven't had my single wall 13"
apron apart in a while, when I was working on it having the entire
apron on the bench was a lot easier than trying to do things in
place. Stan (14755) |
| In that case,
I'll make arrangements to remove the apron. Sounds like less trouble
than what I had in mind. Tom (14767) |
| Removing bull
gear |
| I have a 9" SB and
want to remove the bull gear, how do I do this. I removed the rear
adjusting nut, loosened the 2 bearing adjusting bolts and do not see
any other items needing removal. But I don't want to beat on the
back end of the spindle if more needs to be loosened. (15594) |
| I recently tore my
9" SB apart. You are almost there. I used a block of wood on the end
of the spindle and beat it out without any damage. The spindle is
stepped so once you move it about 1.5" it should slide out without
any other resistance. Also the bull gear is keyed on the shaft. Soak
both sides of the bull gear with penetrating oil before you start
beating. Mike (15595) |
| In addition to
those comments, be careful about what you do while the spindle moves
in the bearings. If you are not careful, you could damage the oil
wicks that are pushed against the spindle with springs. Once it
moves to the right, don't try to move it back to the left. spindle
removal is a relatively simple operation. My SB 10K is currently all
in pieces, but in order to avoid damage to the spindle I remove it
only when I need to do work on the headstock. Next time I remove it,
it will be for the paint job and wick replacement. Guy (15600) |
| I
used some wood and the hammer all came apart fine. I don't like to
use the hammer without being sure every thing is ready. The shaft
looks good some light scoring on bearing surfaces but very light. I
will now need to get a new bull gear. (15603) |
| Removing
spindle of a 9"? |
| Before I run my new 9c, I
would like to know if in fact those felts are there, and the oiling
system is up to par. I also bought a better cone pulley for the
lathe, and if I ever want to install it I need to remove the
spindle. I suspect on my lathe that grease was used on some parts
rather than the recommended oils. I would like to be able to inspect
the bearings, and oil reservoir. Is there any way to check this out
without removing the spindle? The spindle is smooth, but stops as
soon as I stop applying rotational force to it, It probably helps to
have a chuck on it to act like a flywheel no doubt. I ordered How to
run a lathe by SouthBend, should be here in a few days, does anyone
know if this information is in that book? (15685) |
| I have removed the
spindle on my 9C several times times. Here goes. 1) Remove the nut
at the rear of the spindle. This is normally used to take up
longitudinal plat. If your Lathe has a solid thrust bearing behind
the nut consider replacing them with roller bearings. Available from
McMaster Carr for less then $5. Search the archives for the part
#s. 2) Loosen the cap screws on the forward and rear bearings. 3)
Remove the covers over the bull gear (front) and the back gear
(Rear) 4) There is nothing holding the spindle in place now. The
bull gear is on a key. With a little force or tapping with a rubber
mallet or plastic hammer or a metal hammer with a block of wood the
spindle sill come out. Be careful, the spindle will clear the rear
journal first. Try not to let the spindle fall or let the bull gear
scratch the front journal. The felts will "pop" up as you remove the
spindle. You will need to compress them and hold them in place with
stiff wires through the small holes just above the oil caps. I use
small number drills to do this. If the felts are crappy consider
replacing them. If you can clean them OK. There was a thread a few
weeks ago=go about making your own if the springs are still there. I
would rather replace. For all their simplicity they are very
sophisticated. To replace reverse the order. Mark the position of
the keyway on the front of the spindle with a magic marker. Mark the
position of the key slot on the bull gear. You will need to align
these and knowing where they are makes it easy. This is not a big
job. Just use a little care. Jim B. (15695) |
| Removing a 10K
headstock? |
| I have got all the
parts on hand or on the way to upgrade my horizontal drive B model
10K to an A. I even found that the third hole is already drilled and
countersunk in the ways. I was going over the process this evening
to make sure I had everything when I discovered that the headstock
needs to be removed in order to get that third screw in its hole.
The parts diagram shows a bolt and a stud hold the headstock on the
ways. My question is how do you get to them? If you tell me to
unmount the lathe I am going to kick myself as I just spent a full
day getting the ways dead level. (15705) |
| Look underneath the
ways at the headstock end, you will see two clamp that are against
the bottom of the ways, there is a bolt at each one, use a long
wrench to reach in and take them loose But I may be wrong, I do not
think you have to remove the HS to put the QC bolts in, I didn't
have to on mine but in case, you for sure shouldn't need to loosen
up the whole bed. Clint (15706) |
| The 10K is very
similar to the 9". You need to break the nuts loose first. A long
thin box or combination will do this. This is one case where a deep
offset wrench is not good. It is difficult to turn the nut very far
with a long wrench. I then switch to a stubby combination. This
gives more turning room particularly on the front nut where the ways
restrict motion. Jim B. (15709) |
| Assembling
head stock |
| I am putting my
head stock back together 9" SB. I had to use the hammer and a wood
block to remove. How much of this is normal for putting spindle back
in? (15769) |
| I was able to push
mine back in MOST of the way using the tailstock. Tighten down
tailstock, place block of wood between tailstock ram and spindle,
turn tailstock crank to drive spindle in. But towards the end I had
to pretty much beat the heck out of the wood block with a hammer,
just like getting it out. It just doesn't feel good having to do
that, does it. Make sure you hold the wicks down with something like
a stiff wire through the oilers or vent holes so they don't get in
the way of the spindle. John (15770) |
| I used a hammer and
block of urethane to take my bull gear off. I used a threaded rod
through the spindle and piece of pipe over the spindle to press it
back on. Make sure the key and slot is aligned or it can be a real
pain in the butt. JP (15771) |
| Removing
compound rest from a Heavy 10 |
| I just purchased a
Heavy 10 off of ebay I need to remove the compound rest from the
lathe. Any idea how I do this? (Why? I also bought a Phase II tool
holder and need to take the compound rest to a friend to mill the
base.) John (16105) |
| No you don't. The
slot is 1" the Tee is 9/32" high. Give yourself .02" or so of slop.
There are 2 Allen screws to lock the rotary motion of the compound
with pins behind them. Loosen the screws about 1/2" or so then rock
the compound while lifting. If the compound has not been taken off
for some time you will have to remove the cross slide and tap the
back of the compound mounting post with a soft faced mallet. The
cross slide will walk right off the end of the lead screw without a
problem. The Phase II tool post mounting stud is a little long, you
will need a 2" fender washer under the tool post. JP (16106) |
| Back gear
removal |
| I tried to remove a
back gear from a 9 inch SB headstock the other night to no avail.
Couldn't get the pin holding the inboard eccentric out. One of my
manuals shows this being a taper pin. Is it? (16385) |
| IIRC it is a taper
pin. Glen (16386) |
| I put the taper
pins in my lathe. They are on the top when the back gears are
disengaged. You should be able to remove them with a small punch
from the bottom side. Jim B. (16416) |
| Removing
compound rest from cross slide |
| I want to inspect
my compound rest, well, I really want to take apart the compound,
clean up ways, and inspect the thread. IT will not unscrew off, It
moves to its extents and stops. I didn't dare force it any more,
thinking there's a trick or part that needs to come out. I see a
round plug on the bottom, and a screw in the front by the handle, I
took out the screw, but the plug didn't fall out. Is there a trick to
this? (16767) |
| Yes, there's
a trick. If I remember right, you need to unscrew the bushing from
the casting to get the feed screw to come out of the brass nut and
then push the nut out through the hole it sits in from the inside.
Use a flat bladed screwdriver to wedge it out. I think there was a
setscrew in the casting holding it in place as well. The plug you
see is actually the nut. Glen (16770) |
| This is how my SB
9" model 405 works. This is an early SB ( and yours may be a little
different. The feed screw is attached to the compound with a
threaded adapter. This has a Hex on it. Before removing the compound
from the cross feed loosen the screw. I am not sure if there is a
set screw but I don't remember one (I am at work not at home) Now
remove the compound from the cross feed. Unscrew the attaching nut.
This will allow you to totally unscrew the compound drive screw from
the nut. The round plug you refer to is the top of the drive nut. I
believe it is held by a set screw. I don't remember where the set
screw is. Loosen the set screw. You need slide the compound to a
point where the drive screw nut is accessible from below the
compound. You may need to loosen the gibs or remove them. The set
screw may have galled the nut but with little effort you should be
able to remove it. Once removed the two parts will slide apart. The
Drive screw nut keeps the parts from sliding apart and it will hit
both the front and the rear. Jim B. (16773) |
| That darn bushing
is not coming off the compound casting. Also I discovered that my
dial does not freely spin when you undo the setscrew, there's some
burs I need to remove off the screw. So How do you remove that darn
bushing? Do I need a special spanner that wraps around it with a key
that goes in the little hole? I made a quick spanner for removing
the handle nut. The faces are rough between the dial and the
bushing, so I think I should reface them just a hair on my other
lathe. I'd like to be able to clean up the burs as well on the other
lathe. What I don't get is that the Leadscrew itself should unscrew
from the nut right? My leadscrew will not unscrew all the way. I
should at least be able to pull the compound off with the screw and
bushing still on it. Weird. (16775) |
| Bill: If it is like
my 13" SB then the housing that the screw passes through unscrews
from the compound. Ron (16776) |
| Bill: this may
sound harsh, but if you really don't see how it comes apart, then
take it easy and back off until you understand what you are doing.
there is info in the faq on where to get parts descriptions and
manuals. Please look at it and get the files. are you trying to
remove the cross slide or the compound? your subject suggest one
thing and your description is of another. which is it? if you have a
model C, you have a power cross feed. 1. what lathe are you working
on? is it the same as in the pictures you posted? 2. There is an
assembly number stamped on the saddle/cross slide/ compound. what is
it? in lieu of that pot a picture of the saddle/cross slide
combination. 2. Do you have a regular or taper equip't cross slide?
3. The 'bushing' you are referring to IS the top part of the cross
slide nut. assuming that you have a regular cross slide, I recommend
that you loosen the screws that adjust the gib so you can put some
slop and shake the cross slide. Remove the center screw in that
bushing. That screw locks the nut in the bore. once you loosen it,
you have removed the physical force that locks the nut in place.
liberally spray the bushing and the hole with kroil, liquid wench,
etc... this is to soften the years of oil, swarf, junk that is now
holding that nut in place. Give the whole thing a shake or two to
try and rotate the nut in the bore and break it loose. if not, let
it soak. if you are trying to remove the compound, there are two set
screws that drive pins into the dovetailed spud that is the bottom
of the compound. Remove those setscrews, they are in the rear of the
cross slide, and spray penetrating oil in there. Give the compound a
wobble to loosen the pins. It will come out, be patient. dennis
(16778) |
| Model 9" C's do not
have a power crossfeed. I am talking about the compound. The bushing
that screws onto the casting, I would like to remove it, so I can
take apart the compound. Also though, I would like to know how the
compound comes off the cross slide. Perhaps I'm confusing you
because what I am doing should be a very easy task, but there might
be some burrs on the parts that are making my job much harder, and
having me wondering if there is some trick. This is my first South
Bend lathe. I don't know if these parts should just easily come off,
because mine sure as heck are not. I'm not gonna give it too much
worry, I'll just use it as is, but there is some rust on the ways of
the compound, and I need to reface the dial and bushing so they
don't bind, and I need to remove some burrs off the screw where the
dial rides on. My cross slide is in excellent condition, and the
previous owner even installed a zero backlash nut on it, the cross
feed screw shows no wear. (16780) |
| Bill, sorry model
C's have PLAIN apron. the compound has a circular boss, with a
dovetail cut into the side. Think inverted barb on the spud. that
dovetail it in effect trapped by the two setscrews that are at the
rear of the cross slide, at about 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock looking
down on the compound from the front. The set screws drive pins with
a 'slant' cut to bear against the dovetail. They are usually stuck
in place with years of gunge. Like I said soak and shake. it will
loosen. it would probably help to have the cross slide on the
machine to give you better leverage. dennis (16781) |
| Dennis, yes, the
screw that locks the compound for the angle. My lathe is missing a
screw and pin, so I only have one on the 10 o'clock position.
Bummer, I just ordered some parts from Leblond. (16782) |
| You need to remove
the leadscrew. You do not need to remove the handle to do this. the
lead screw is held in a bigger screw/bushing which threads into the
casting. This should have a hex on it near the casting. unscrew this
from the casting. I used an adjustable wrench . Then the lead screw
will unscrew from the internal drive nut. The set screw which
secured the nut on to the cross feed casting may have raised a ring
on the boss which fits into the casting. You may need to tap very
lightly, with a plastic hammer to unstick it. I found that spindle
oil helped. The nut/boss will not come out if the leadscrew is still
in it. The screw/bushing in which the leadscrew passes retains the
leadscrew. It needs to be removed to extract the lead screw. If you
still have problems I will disassemble mine again and send you a
picture. Jim B. (16783) |
| Yes, Except that my
compound is missing that hex that holds it on, and the dash on the
bushing that you use with the Dial is torqued to the right. SO this
tells me that the idiot who owned it before me probably lost the
screw, and over tightened it to keep it on? Of course I don't know
how long ago this happened, the lathe is from 1941. I think I'm
going to need some kroil on this part as well, or just leave it
alone. I stuck an Allen wrench in that hole to use as a lever to
unscrew the damn thing. My Allen felt like It was going to break
before the busing came loose. The hole where the screw went is
already deformed out of shape, so I suppose I'm not the first to
want to remove it. When you say a light tap, a light tap on what?
(16786) |
| Bill, Neither of my
SB compounds have hex bushings, they both have a hole for a spanner
wrench like yours. I was able to get one apart using a tommy bar
from my little Sherline chuck. The other was banged up like yours. I
was able to remove it by wrapping a piece of leather around it and
clamping it (the bushing) in a vise. I then twisted the casting and
it finally did come loose. Removing the compound assembly from the
saddle is like Dennis says. You do have to unscrew the "ten o'clock
and two o'clock" screws quite a long way so the tapered spud can
push the shoes into their holes far enough to clear. Does the
compound at least swivel on the saddle? Can you set the compound
angle, I mean? I think the light tap Jim is talking about would be
on the nut itself once you have extracted the feedscrew. Glen
(16793) |
| A pin spanner would
help. I used a punch that fit in the hole to remove the bushing. It
did mangle the hole a bit though. the You need to remove the bushing
first, then unscrew the feed screw. After that, loosen the set screw
that holds the brass nut in the swivel base. Remove the gib, then
reach up in the cavity and push the brass nut out. The 2 castings
should now come apart. Nate (16803) |
| Remove
crossfeed handle and crankhandle |
| I have slack in the
handles and would like to know how to remove them. Is there a
special tool? Would like to put in brass shims to take up the slack.
Is there a better way? david (17525) |
| The ball
crank handles are held in place with a special nut. It is slotted
and profiled to fit the handle. A large screwdriver, notched in the
center, will unscrew the nut and the handle can then be removed.
There is a pin that will fall out when the handle comes off, so make
sure not to loose it. Shimming isn't the way to remove slack in the
feed screws. In the files section are some instructions on fitting
screws. These were written on fitting new screws but are just as
applicable to refitting old screws. Somehow, I cannot post the direct link to the
instruction sheet. But I can post the link to the folder that
contains the instruction sheet. Go there and click on:
"SBL_Crossfeed_Install-1.jpg"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/files/Techinfo/Cross-slide/
|
| Webb. I can make up
the screwdriver and follow the plans. David (17528) |
| Dismantling
Cushman Chuck |
| I'm trying to take apart a 5"
3-Jaw Cushman scroll chuck to clean and lube it. This is an "old"
one, of course. I've got the backing plate off (witness marking it
first), the jaws out, and the pinion gear removed. At this point, I
am stalled: there appears to be two main assemblies now, an inner
and an outer shell. These *appear* to be held together by three
capscrews and a pin, accessible once the backing plate is removed.
So the question is, are these parts pressed together, and if so what
is the drill to unpress them, or is there a surprise awaiting me?
It's getting a Kroil dose right now. I don't want to beat it apart
with a large hammer if I can avoid it. Is it worth it to continue
disassembly, if my goal is simply clean-n-lube? Dave (18112) |
| Home Shop
Machinists magazine had an excellent article in the Sep/Oct 2001
issue, p. 58 entitled, "Scroll Chucks - Their Care and Repair. Neil
B. (18115) |
| Dave: I just went
through the exact process you are. Are you sure the pinion gear is
removed? There is a small setscrew that holds it in place. I removed
the three cap screws that you refer to and left the pin alone. I
removed the setscrew for the pinion gear (just to be clear, this is
what you put the chuck key in to adjust the jaws), but the pinion
gear wouldn't pop out. The pinion actually holds the two pieces of
the chuck together. I heated the chuck in my kitchen oven at 350
degrees for twenty minutes, dropped the chuck on a flat steel plate
(banged the outer surface, where the back plate fits on the plate).
This process caused the pinion gear to come loose. Once the pinion
gear came out, the two halves separated easily and the scroll plate
was exposed. Took the whole thing apart, soaked in simple green,
cleaned, oiled and white lithium greased and put back together.
Accurate, clean and the jaws move freely. The two halves are a very
close tolerance fit, but they are not pressed together like a Jacobs
drill chuck. Shawn (18117) |
| Yes, this piece
came out, having removed the set-screw pin, I lodged a screwdriver
blade in the socket and teased it forth from the chuck. I can look
in its orifice and see the back of the scroll. Thanks, Shawn; you're
telling me what I had expected and hoped to hear. Just so it's not a
shrink fit or something else weird like that. I'll try teasing it a
bit more, maybe a few love-taps here and there, maybe lever around
with a dowel rod in the pinion socket. If that doesn't do it, I'll
bake it for a short time, which should expand the outer shell first.
Dave (18123) |
| Dave, I loosened
the three bolts to just above the countersunk holes then taped them
back in with a hammer. This separated the two 'halves' without
leaving any nasty digs in the chuck. Larry (18125) |
| Yes, I thought of
that but didn't know the state of the screws -- were they corroded,
etc, and because I wasn't at the time aware of exactly how the
innards were arranged. So I ended up slamming the chuck into the
wooden workbench top a few times, noticed progress, repeated the
treatment, and saw more progress. I finally pried it apart by
beating (with a 4oz hammer) an ancient 1/4" sharp wood chisel into
the now-slightly opened seam between the halves, accessible in the
central bore. Came right apart. In future, I would recommend using
instead of a metal chisel, a sharpened wedge of hardwood (or maybe
aluminum), although I did not raise any burrs myself, that was
because of good luck. The chuck's parts are now bathing in kerosene,
awaiting a thorough cleaning. Amazing what can lodge in those hidden
recesses, kinda like opening an Egyptian tomb. The whole process was
doubtless made easier by a liberal application of Kroil, the miracle
penetrant. This broke the seal which was due to a bit of rust in the
joint. By the time I got the chuck apart, the rust had been
completely softened and could be wiped out with a rag. Thanks to all
who contributed to my soon-to-be shiny "new" chuck. Dave (18129) |
| I suffered the same
problem with an "ancient" English Pratt 8" 4 jaw.. couldn't for the
life of me find out how to get the back plate off. 4 bolts in the
face.. fine.. then nothing. No opposite thread visible, no other
"hidden" bolds/screws to be seen... a 3 day soak in Kerosene and an
application of my favorite penetrant CRC 5.56 .. and I drove a thin
stainless steel knife blade between the backplate and the chuck body
with a large rubber mallet. Took a bit of effort but the rest of it
was a dead easy task after that.. Those Poms sure knew how to make a
nice "press fit" in those days. On the topic of the three jaw, again
my only experience is with Pratt. Once the backplate is removed,
with the inner plate removed to expose the back of the scroll gear,
there is little reason in my mind to go any further.. all the
components are viewable and can be cleaned/inspected/greased before
reassembly. Garry D (18223) |
| Maybe I should add
this for benefit of the Google/archives -- my other 3-jaw is a
Skinner, and its dismantling was straightforward. The backplate for
the Skinner had "pusher" holes, but they were for a different size
screw, no problem. Once the backplate is off, 6 cap screws were
revealed. Undoing them, the chuck split in half, right along the
axis of the pinion gears. Things were real obvious after that. Dave
(18225) |
| Dismantling
the Cushman 5"- 3 jaw chuck |
| I recently
purchased a South Bend 9" lathe. It came with the Cushman chuck,
which I am taking apart to clean. The backing plate is off, but I'm
not sure how to proceed. There appears to be a locating pin, which I
do not know how to remove. Should I heat the outside, in the hopes
that the inner plate will just drop out? Also, after it is cleaned,
is there a specific grease I should use upon re-assembly?
(18780) |
| I went through this
around 1 April, if you search the archives. hmmm, I still have the
thread on disk -- I will send it to you off-list. In short, you
remove a small set screw holding the pinion gear in, then tease the
pinion gear out; the pinion gear is part of the "Chinese puzzle".
The two halves are then held together out of habit... see the stuff
I'll send you. There are a couple of ways to proceed. This is a
Cushman 3-Jaw scroll chuck, I assume. Grease? Some use lithium
grease. I use way oil. Is grease required? Dave (18808) |
| I have been told
and also read on a number of occasions that the only lubrication
should be oil. It seems that over time grease will collect swarf and
other matter and impair functioning of the chuck. Bill (18814) |
| Taking the
lathe assembly off a base Heavy 10 |
| I am taking one
very tired heavy ten from LA to South Bend Indiana to get a factory
rebuild. I have a 3/4 ton cargo van and the opening is barely big
enough to fit the lathe minus pallet but not much more. I had
thought to talk the bed/drive assembly off of the base and putting
it in a crate and then taking the base and chip pan and legs as
three distinct assemblies. Question is: is it as easy as the eight
bolts, take loose the drive belt and lift away with my dad's engine
hoist? My very good friend who I am doing this for is having the
drive rebuilt so everything is going to SBL. Evan (19375) |
| I pulled a H
ten apart (off the cabinet) this summer to load and haul to a buyer
about 100 miles. The only problem I could tell you is if you have a
glued together belt it will need to be cut and replaced. This old
machine happened to have a pined belt and was no problem. Made the
job a lot easier. A cabinet next to a pickup bed will slide off and
right in without a hoist, but would make life much easier. Grumpy
(19382) |
| If you have a
spliced belt you can reasonably easily pull the countershaft under
the table and free the belt (which goes with the headstock and bed),
still allowing you to separate the lathe from the table. I don't
remember if others mentioned that the carriage comes off trivially
by temporarily disconnecting the far-end leadscrew hanger and just
sliding the carriage off the end (carefully). Also, the complete
drive assembly comes out of the table pretty easily. Combine all of
these and you have a set of easily manageable pieces without a not
of dismantling work. No cranes (Chinese or otherwise) needed. Frank
(19385) |
| 10 k Spindle
removal |
| I need to remove
the spindle of my 10K. I tried once by loosening the two collar
bolts, also the screws that hold the bearing inserts and removed the
adjustment collar and washer. I then tried by hammering from left to
right with a wood block between the spindle and hammer to no avail.
The spindle would not budge. The only thing I did in the process was
miss-align the washer seals of the collar bolts. Wayne (19576) |
| I just went
thru this 3 weeks ago to put a belt on my 10K. Put the 4 screws back
in the bearing inserts they don't need to be removed. Remove the nut
and washer, and with a lead hammer drive the shaft toward the
tailstock. The bull gear is what is pressed on and when it is slid
over the whole shaft will fly out. I was told a good idea is to
clamp a length of 1/2" bar up in the tailstock chuck and insert in
the spindle hole to keep the shaft from dropping down on the ways.
It should move with 5 or 6 good hits then slide out. If you need to
remove the bull gear. I scribed a line in the paint thru the cam and
shaft to make it easier to line up. Bob (19577) |
| Taper Pin
Removal Help |
| I'm trying to
remove the taper pin that holds the large drive wheel on the shaft
of the horiz. drive unit. Thus far all I've tried is to punch it out
with a flat tip punch but it will not move. I don't think I have
peened it but in case I have would one suggest drilling it down a
small amount or filling/grinding? JJ (19984) |
| The pin on mine
wouldn't budge either, and I stopped when the end looked like it was
beginning to peen. I heated the pulley hub thoroughly with a torch,
doused the pin with WD40, and it tapped right out. Jeff (19986) |
| JJ I have fashioned
a small press / screw type devise to press them out in the past or
just a punch and a big hammer . I like the press set up better. If
you are going the wrong way they can give you fits but you should
not have to drill they will snap with the right blow. I think the
pressing action is better on all the surrounding parts. If you do
use a hammer and punch line up the punch on the right side just
smaller punch than the pin and smack it seriously . Small light
blows will peen over the pin . I have watched beginner gunsmiths
actually make a nail out of a pin from the wrong kind of hammer
action. Wouldn't think something so basic could be so hard to
operate. Grumpy (19987) |
| I have had the same
experience with solid blows and a good short pin punch that won't
buckle. One solid tap will shift it then follow with a long pin
punch to knock it thru. RichD (19989) |
| I hate to force
anything, but I do use a hammer. Either heat it up and give it a
good smack, or heat it lube it, then re-heat and smack it. As for
Ali bad a$$, yeah people can change. But in this current climate of
corp. greed it seems unlikely. It'll be just a matter of time before
we hear yet another horror story. The closer you get to the fire,
the better chance there is for rapid warming. According to physic's.
Ron (19990) |
| Once you have made
sure you know the small end from the large end, the best thing to do
is to center punch and drill a shallow hole in the center of the
small end to fit the tip of a straight punch. The hole and punch
should be as large a diameter as the pin will allow. Then place the
punch in the shallow hole and give it a good wack with a hammer to
break it loose. Doing it this way eliminates the tendency to peen
over and mushroom the small end of the tapered pin, which then
creates a self defeating situation. When it is out, either replace
it with a new tapered pin or make a new tapered pin (on the lathe)
to fit. All tapered pins are machined to a standard taper of 1/4"
per foot. If you are not fussy, you can probably also reuse the old
pin. If you have already mushroomed over the small end of the
tapered pin, file it or grind it down flush with the surface and
start over as above. It has worked for me! (19997) |
| Just took a little
under 2 hours to get the blasted P.O.S. out. I ground off the penned
part and drilled a 3/16 pocket in the small end and pounded on this
with using a 3/16 drive pin punch no movement. Alas heat is the
great mover. I heated it up till the surface grease was smoking and
pounded. Finally it gave way. These wheels are made of aluminum (I
didn't test it with a magnet but this stuff is really soft). The
different metals are reason for the sticking. On reassembly I'll use
some molly lube to keep things separated... Thanks guys for all the
input and suggestions they were all right on. Heat it up and pound
the pi%^ out of it.... OBTW don't even think about using an air
hammer. JJ (20001) |
| Removing lead
screw - 9A |
| Is it possible to
remove the lead screw from a 9A without disassembling the quick
change gear box? Denny (20347) |
| I believe you
have to remove the gear box from the lathe but you don't have
disassemble it. Remove the two screws that hold the gearbox in place
and slide everything out to the left. Then you can turn the gearbox
upside down and remove the nut on the left end of the lead screw.
You might be able to remove the nut by working from underneath the
lathe but it's probably not worth the effort. John (20348) |
| You do have to
remove the gearbox from the lathe, then you can get access to the
nut that holds the shaft in place and slide the shaft out. Dennis
(20357) |
| I've looked at the
screws that you mention, but it looks like I'll have to remove the
headstock to get at them. Is that right? Denny (20376) |
| Removing Handlever Collet Attachment |
| I am a new owner of
a Southbend Model 9A. This machine is in great condition and is all
set with the handlever set up for collets. I hope this does not
sound stupid but I am not sure how to remove this. Having no
instructions for this machine I am starting my search here. I see
how most of it comes apart but do not want to force anything. Does
the spindle get tapped out to the left? Chris (20592) |
| After
unscrewing the pivot pin in the headstock casting, the entire unit
will slide out of the spindle. There is a small pin in the end of
the spindle tube that engages with the attachment and may be a close
fit, but should pull off even if a tug is needed. RichD (20596) |
| Rich your
instructions were perfect. You were right when you said it might be
a close fit. A little pull was all that was needed. Chris (20622) |
| Heavy 10
disassembly |
| I am finishing
taking apart the innards of the under-drive components of the
headstock pedestal end of my Heavy 10L. I removed the under-drive
Westinghouse motor today, along with the 3 phase box on the back of
the pedestal. I am now working on removing the cone pulley and other
components. I am having trouble with the knurled hex knob, which is
used for adjusting the tension of the cone pulley. There is a small
steel pin which retains the hex knob. I used a drift punch and tried
to knock this pin out. I have only managed to budge it a hair. I
have soaked the pin with penetrating fluid, and it still won't
budge. William (21146) |
| If it's a taper
pin, you have to be careful to knock it out from the small end and
then with a stout punch and a single dead blow to knock it loose.
Check the parts list to see if they call out a "taper pin". I had a
10L once. Wish I still had it. Rich (21147) |
| I just got finished
restoring my heavy 10, and yes this is a taper pin. That particular
pin wasn't difficult to remove, however, other ones were. I tried
soaking some of them, but in the end, I had to get a bigger hammer.
The hex knob is something that you could heat up with a torch and
not worry about damage. (21153) |
| William, South bend
used tapered pins in a lot of applications, give it a few taps in
the other direction see if that works. Taper pins usually pop right
out, once loosened. Jim (21160) |
| I finally removed
the taper pin on the hex nut used for adjusting tension on the
under-drive cone pulley. I am now onto the final phase of
disassembling the heavy 10. I am going to removed the cone pulley
drive pulley/shaft. It looks like there are two Allen wrench type
set screws, retaining the cone pulley to the drive shaft. I have
already removed the two hex nuts at the end of the cone pulley drive
shaft. With the two set screws removed from the cone pulley, I
believe I will be able to removed the drive pulley/shaft and cone
pulley. Looks like a gear puller would help dislodging the drive
pulley shaft? On removal of the underdrive cradle, do I tap out the
cradle shaft? Also; with the motor plate, do I tap out the motor
plate shaft for removal? William
(21188) |
| There is one set
screw holding the motor plate hinge pin at the left rear. I backed
that screw out and the shaft taped out easily.(21196) |
| William, You can
pretty much forget removing the motor platform! If it is like mine
(I no longer have it) the pivot shaft bearings are poured in place
trapping it. The countershaft will just slide out and if it was like
mine there will be 4 deep grooves worn in it because nobody ever
poured oil into the bearing lube cups. This is a steel/iron bearing.
I was surprised to find the iron casting with NO wear. A new shaft
fit perfectly, oiled'er up and it is still running today. Is yours
the big iron box casting under the headstock with belt release lever
on the front? Single lever QC? Pullout Thread/feed gear? RichD
(21197) |
| William, There is
no need to remove the cone pulley from the shaft in order to
disassemble the underdrive. It is more work than it is worth. I used
duct tape to protect the surfaces that press into the end bearings,
and sandblasted the cone pulley and the shaft. Once I reassembled my
restored heavy 10, I had to adjust the cone pully, and it was kind
of a bear. (Rotating it and hitting it with a dead-blow hammer) Join
the "SouthbendLathePix" group, and look at my pictures under "CW
HEAVY..." folder. There is a picture labeled, "underdrive", and you
can see where I painted (and duct- taped) the pulley shaft. You can
click the picture to get a super zoomed view. (The file is kinda
big) If you still have trouble, or need explanation, I will keep my
eye on this thread and reply if need be. (21200) |
| William; Chris is
right. It took a 5-ton hydraulic puller to break the large pulley
free on my 13" (Yes, I removed the taper pin first). I bent up the
3/4" screw on my manual puller before I borrowed the hydraulic unit.
There's a lot more risk of creating damage when tearing this
assembly apart than there is advantage. The only reason I can think
of to take it apart is to replace the bearings. Of course, this is
all hind-sight. I took mine all the way apart because I'm A-R and it
sure does look nice with all those individual pieces separately
painted. Ed (21201) |
| Apron
Disassembly |
| I am trying to
dismantle a 9" model C apron. Does anyone have a step-by-step
description? The army instructions look as if there is a pin holding
the handwheel in place. The pin on my unit looks as if both sides is
a "head". Neither looks smaller and both look like they are slightly
flared. Do I just pick one side and start hammering it out or what?
Gene (21238) |
| I don't have a step
by step instruction. But did the same thing in the last little
while. There are taper pins holding the handles together. Somehow
you will have to find the smaller diameter before you start. Mine
looked similar, but one is definitely smaller. Mark (21240) |
| Looked at 2
different aprons that I have ( A and a C ) the little end on both of
mine are the end that is closest to being flush with the hub of the
hand wheel...the big end sticks out more that the little end.
(21244) |
| Here are the
step-by-step instructions for the next clueless person. This is for
the 9" Model C. I will use the following diagram for item
number/names: (dead link) 1) What looks
like grunge hanging off of the end of the gear (56,67) is part of
the oil wick. It is supposed to be there g 2) The handwheel (1) is
directly connected to the pinion (15). First remove the ring (15)
around the end of the pinion (15). Yes, in the diagram the ring
doesn't have a unique number. 3) The gear (56, 57) will now slide
off. This gear is composed of two parts that look like they are
pressed together. Unless you are replacing part of it I would just
leave it as one assembly. 4) The handwheel (1) is attached to the
pinion (15) by a pin (3). On my unit I couldn't tell which was the
top and which was the bottom of the pin. From other comments this
appears to be common. I just picked one side and started gently
tapping on it. When that didn't work I picked the other. Two taps
and the pin fell right out. The fit on these machine is made to a
tight tolerance. The handwheel may be tough to get off. It is cast
iron, though, so hammering could shatter it. A gear puller would be
best. I had a hammer with a rubber handle and used the handle to tap
on the handle until it had slid off enough to allow me to get
something underneath it to pry it off. 5) The pinion (15) will
probably require to hammering from the front to knock it out. It
slides out with hammering. 6) The stud (58) is the cylinder with the
wick that the gear (56,67) was attached to. That is removed by
hammering from the front. 7) Note that the top half nut has a hole
in it for the oil to flow through. This will need to be on top when
you reassemble. 8) Next is the only part on my unit that actually
came off with- out hammering. The two screws (50) that are the pivot
points for the half nuts (51) are held on by the nut (40). On my
unit the nut was easy to remove and the screws and half nuts just
fell out. 9) The cam handle (61) is held on by a spring loaded pin.
On the top of the apron is the screw (59) that holds the spring (60)
and the pin (43). Remove all three of these. On my unit the pin had
been broken. Perhaps somebody tried to remove the cam (61) without
removing the pin (43)? You'll probably have to turn the apron upside
down and tap on it to get the pin to come out. By hammering on the
backside of the cam handle (61) it will come off. 10) I did not
remove the oil tube (23) and the oiler (5). I don't know whether or
not they are screwed on or pressed on. If you are painting like I am
just tape them off. To reassemble just follow the procedure
backwards. Be sure and make sure that the half nut with the oil hole
is on top! If anyone sees any flaws in this please let me know. I
would like to see it in the files section once the errors have been
corrected. Gene (21245) |
| 9" Dismantling
|
| I've just about got
my 9" C torn apart. 2 items are giving me some trouble and and I am
asking for advice before doing some damage. 1) The bolt that goes
from the top of the bed down into the bracket for the leadscrew by
the head is frozen. I've soaked it in penetrating oil and the thing
will not budge. The ones on the foot side came off fairly easily
though... My next step would be to take an impact driver to it. I'm
not too fond of swinging a 4# hammer at the bed but can't think of
anything else. Any ideas? 2) The chuck faceplate is stuck to the
spindle. I've gone so far as to using a 4' bar prying between the
nose of the faceplate and one of the mounting bolts. All I did was
shear off the bolt. I've got a complete headstock replacement as all
of the gears on the old one are chewed up. It looks like someone
tried engaging the back gears with the lock pin in place. Many
times. But other than the gears everything else looks to be in good
shape and so I prefer not to ruin anything lese - especially the
spindle. My thought here is to lock the faceplate in a vice and take
a pipe wrench to the pulley. But doing this puts all of the force
through the lock pin. I am afraid that will shear next. The only
other thing I can think of is to remove the pulleys and apply the
pipe wrench to the spindle itself. Chewing it up in the meantime.
Any better ideas? Gene (21525) |
| #1 I have had good
success with a 12 Volt drill and a screw driver bit. The drill
torque seems to break the screws loose easily. #2 Try heat on the
faceplate. Try to heat sink the spindle. Use water or ice to keep it
cool. If all else fails machine it off. Jim B.(21530) |
| I take a lot of
these apart and run into the problem in #1 often with the tailstock
leadscrew bracket and into the quick change box. The other ones that
are often tough to get out are the ones that go through the carriage
to the apron. I can always get them though with the following
methods that I use in this order. 1)They just come out normal with a
screwdriver. 2)I Use the largest bladed screwdriver that will fit in
the screw and that has a square shank.. I put a long wrench on the
screwdrivers shank and use the palm of one hand to push down on the
end of the screwdriver into the screw while use my
other hand to turn the wrench. This works 95% of the time. 3)I use a
snap-on hand impact driver that I have and a rubber dead blow
hammer. Usually one hit to it and it turns it that initial fraction
of a turn that I can then just take it out as normal. Have never
hurt anything doing this except perhaps the screw head itself if it
pops out of the slot. One thing I like better about Logan lathes,
they put those parts on with regular bolts to the face of the bed
rather then those screws through the top. Jeff (21532) |
| Gene, try and get
something expanding down inside the spindle bore from the back, and
use this to grip the spindle from the inside. Then, if it slips and
you do damage, it is less likely to affect the spindle's function.
But don't go near the Morse taper. Also, _soak_ the faceplate/nose
threads in WD40 for days beforehand (eg immerse in oil bath if
you've withdrawn the spindle from the bearings). Tim (21539) |
| Try soaking in
brake fluid I have found it good for soaking stuck -parts in. Thomas
(21552) |
| QC knob
removal |
| I need to remove
the pin that holds the knob on the tumbler of a 9" qc. The portion
of the plunger that holds it in gear is broken off and I need to
replace the plunger. I have tried many different approaches to drive
it out, from a small punch used freehand to a homemade jig to hold
the punch in alignment. Even a threaded bolt with the end turned
down to use like a press in the same jug. I have even tried it from
both sides in case it was a tapered pin. I can't get any movement.
Marshall (22326) |
| As you
already have a guide jig made, how about drilling it out? If you go
slightly oversize a roll pin could be used when you put it back
together. You will likely have to grind the roll pin flush or cut it
slightly short prior to installing with an abrasive wheel unless you
can find one the correct length. Stan (22327) |
| On mine,
it appears that the pins are tapered. I would expect that.
Unfortunately, once you have beat on them, it's hard to tell which
end is the bigger. Drilling undersize to allow collapsing the pin
then punching out may be the only option. RichD (22328) |
| Stan and Rich, that
is definitely a good option. I do have to disassemble two knob units
to get one completely usable tumbler. I also have a couple that I
could practice on without worrying about the outcome. (22329) |
| On all the knobs
that I have disassembled ( gearbox and apron ) the pins were
straight. On some of them it was pretty hard to find the pin but
once located all came out with a punch. (22335) |
| I finally had to
drill the pins out. It wasn't as pretty as I would have liked but
did get the job done. My primitive setup was somewhat less than
precision but the end result is a working lathe again. Marshall
(22339) |
| Gearbox
assembly-disassembly woes |
| I have a heavy 10
that is almost put back together. The only part that isn't finished
is the QC gearbox. This is the older single tumbler type, and I have
a problem figuring out how to assemble the upper gear shaft. The
shaft with the cone gears is simple since all of the gears are keyed
and you simply push the shaft into the housing with all of the key
ways lined up. The upper shaft (the one with sliding gear that is
actuated by the top lever) is a mystery. The sliding gear fits over
a key in the shaft, but the other gears don't have a key slot so you
can't just push the shaft through from the side like you can with
the other one. Once the shaft is in the housing with all the gears
on, there doesn't seem to be a way to put the key in. To disassemble
the unit, I had to grind away the key with a dremel a 1/4" at a time
until I could slide the shaft through the other gears. I assumed
that once I had everything apart and cleaned up I would be able to
figure out the trick to putting it back together. Well, I don't seem
to be as smart as the feller who figured it out the first time.
Anyone out there that has done this before? I know I didn't describe
it very well here, but if you have had a single tumbler gearbox
apart you probably know what I am talking about. Brian (22348) |
| I can't
speak to the Heavy 10 but my 13" (1946-vintage) with single-tumbler
gearbox should be similar. All the gears on that shaft have internal
keyways that fit over the key. The keyway on the gear to the "right"
of the sliding gear is intended to have a felt wick inserted in the
keyway. I tried to assemble the gearbox with the wick already in and
then put the keyway in but I couldn't get it to work either. The
only way I could figure out how to get the wick in was to stuff it
in from the end after the shaft was assembled in the gearbox. Ed
(22358) |
| Ed, I think that is
probably the way to go. I kind of suspected that I would have to use
the felt slot to clear the key, and then figure out how to stick the
felt in later. Since I haven't made a new key yet I didn't get to
try that yet. I wasn't too sure that felt would go in after the
fact. Someone ran this poor bugger without oil a few too many times.
I have to turn down the ends of the shafts a little, and make some
new bushings before it all goes back together. Brian (22366) |
| Removing
handle on Saddle Compound rest |
| I am trying to
remove the handle from the cross slide. I removed the threaded
chrome cap from the center, now according to the exploded parts list
there is a nut and a pin which is against a flat part on the main
screw. It seems like this pin must be removed before the nut can be
turned. The pin is flush with the nut and there is no room to grab
it with pliers.
(22594) |
| The handle just
pulls off and the round pin will most likely stay on the shaft. At
least that's the way my 9" works. (22599) |
| South Bend 9"
spindle assembly |
| I got a 9" workshop
lathe that my buddy was in the process of restoring but he lost
interest and gave it to me to finish. I reassembling the spindle.
Question: since my friend forgot does the take up washer go next the
the ball bearing race or next to the take up nut. He gave my the
parts list but it does not show how it fits in the headstock. Jim
(23438) |
| The takeup washer
goes next to the takeup nut and outside the headstock casting, the
bearing goes inside between the headstock casting and the pulley.
Walt (23439) |
| Compound rest
removal? |
| I have been
cleaning the lathe (9" model a) from gears to tail stock, and am now
on the most difficult, the carriage. Well first my question is how
can I get the carriage off of the apron, I know of the 2 little
screws, but problem is that one screws will not budge, I have soaked
it with a solvent, Can't think of it off the top of my head) that
has soaked through every thing so far; I even used a small hand held
manual impact driver and it bent the bit about 90 degrees. Second,
there are small metal particles in the way wipers felt, should these
be replaced, if so, with what. Now what has really got me stumped,
is that I can not get the compound rest off of the compound rest
swivel any suggestions? (23784) |
| On the compound
even when you remove the screws there are pins at the ends of the
screws that go into the tapered base. So those pins will need to
come out about 1/4" for the compound to lift up. Remove the screws
and squirt some oil or WD 40 back in there. Keep working the
compound upwards it should come loose. Bob (23788) |
| I had to drive mine
out with a soft faced hammer from underneath the first time, even
after the penetrating oil. Now that it is cleaned out it lifts out
properly. For a penetrant I use 'Break Free CLP' available at most
gun shops and from McMaster-Carr. JP (23795) |
| Use SAE Type F1
felt available inexpensively from McMaster-Carr. Buy a sheet of it
in the correct thickness (about 1/16", I think). Way wiper felts
should be replaced frequently. For my frequency of lathe use, about
once or twice a year. Ed (23809) |
| I soaked the
screw about 3 times, letting it sit for about 15 minutes, went to
use the impact on it and 3 blows, and the impact bit breaks. I
thought then maybe I could then drill it out, no such luck. My only
other thought is to use a Dremel tool with a cone type of grinding
bit, but I am always hearing how bad grinder dust is for ways, etc.
(23835) |
| Patience, Break
Free 4 times a day for 2 days, better quality impact bit would also
be in order, think Snap On Tools. If the head is trashed then use a
carbide drill and an easy out, again think Snap On Tools, more
patience. If you can still get a grip on the screw and don't mind
trashing some paint then use localized heat on the block that the
screws mount into from a fine tipped torch. If someone used locktite
on those screws at some point in time then heat will help to release
it. JP (23836) |
