| Collet closers (Sep 30,
2001) |
Draw Bar Adapter; What Do You
Think? (Aug 24, 2003) |
| Collets and collet closers on the
S.B. 9" (Nov 27, 2001) |
Handwheel drawbar (Oct 11, 2003) |
| South Bend 10K Drawbar
(Apr 20, 2002) |
13"
SB Handwheel Collet Closer Sketch (Oct 20, 2003) |
| Lever collet closer 10K
(Apr 25, 2002) |
Drawbar dimensions needed (Dec 5, 2003) |
| Collet Drawbar Handwheel
(Aug 22, 2002) |
Heavy 10 collet closer question (Jan 13, 2004) |
| 3C Collet Closer (Aug 24,
2002) |
Instructions
for Handlever Collet Closers? (Jan 25, 2004) |
| Hand lever collet closer info
(Dec 17, 2002) |
Hand Lever Collet Closer Attachment? (Mar 26, 2004) |
| Collet Closer question
(Jan 6, 2003) |
Lever collet closer instructions (Aug 29, 2004) |
| 9" SB Drawbar Thread (May
18, 2003) |
10k
collet closer: no sleeve in spindle end? (Sep 14, 2004) |
| 9" lever collet closer
(May 22, 2003) |
Lever collet closer bracket? (Oct 11, 2004) |
| Collet Closer (Jul 3,
2003) |
9"
collet closer (Nov 14, 2004) |
| Collet Closer Compatibility
(Jul 12, 2003) |
Handlever Collet Attachment (Jan 2, 2005) |
| Lever closer problem
(Aug 4, 2003) |
|
| |
| Collet closers |
| Does anyone
know of plans to build a handwheel type, or even lever type collet
closer for the heavy ten? Any place they can be purchased for less
than the going rate of the Royal? Greg (1683) |
| The inside threading is a bit nerve
racking, but just take it slow. The 5c should be easier as you can
see inside the larger hole more easily. I believe that heavy 10 has
a 5c spindle nose so that solves that problem. The easiest part to
make is the cap, I made mine out of brass and made it
oversized to allow for easier tightening. If you make the handwheel
and the cap about the same size it facilitates tightening
ergonomics. You can knurl the cap easily if you use brass. The
drawtube on mine started as 1/2" schedule 80 pipe. Using this
material gives you something to work with as it has a thick wall.
Black pipe is also very easily machined. Check the id and od of the
larger sizes to see if you can cut it to fit your application. Try
to find a piece that's not rusted since you will probably have to
turn the diam down over the whole length (messy if rusty).
RC (1697) |
| Check out the
ones Grizzly offers for their 12 and 13" lathes. From the catalog
they look as if they could be fitted to any lathe with a 5MT spindle
with a little work. Also check out the Enco catalog I remember they
offered them at a very good price at one time. (1711) |
| Collets and collet closers on the
S.B. 9" |
| Is it possible to install
a collet closing arm in the headstock of the South Bend 9"? Also,
would 5C collets fit? I have a 1978 with the power feed, almost all
accessories, and the hinged geartrain cover (how would I install a
collet closing arm over this?). Bilal (2265) |
| It is certainly
possible to install a drawtube-handwheel type closer that rides
in/against the back of the spindle bore. I don't know about the
lever type. These are for small 3C or 3AT collets. To use 5c's you
can get a spindle nose mounting chuck (see
www.brassandtool.com )
that will tighten the collet with a key like other lathe chucks. You
get the full 3/4" spindle bore open this way, but you loose a few
inches of bed since the entire collet length is outside the spindle.
Chris (2266) |
| Bilal, I thought
they made a collet closer lever type for these lathes. I keep
forgetting to look at my catalog at home. There are some collet
chuck (??) that attach to the front of the spindle (as noted in a
previous post). I think Grizzly sells one under the Bison Brand. It
should be made in Poland. My limited experience with products made
in the former East Block is basic stuff, but very good quality. They
would probably be your best bet for 5C collets on your lathe. I have
heard of someone adapting a Heavy Ten's spindle to a Light 10. I
don't any more than that, and it might be and Urban South Bend
Legend. Tom (2326) |
| Tom, I'm
currently the high bidder on Ebay on a set of 3C collets as well as
the tube and handwheel attachment to use them with on my lathe (9").
However, if I got the collet chuck that both you and Chris pointed
out to me, I'd be able to nearly quadruple my stock diameter
capacity, in addition to being able to turn square and hexagonal
stock, due to being able to use 5C collets. I'm regretting bidding
on the 3C collet and accessories now because I would have had
money that could have gone towards the chuck. Anyone want to outbid
me and take it off my hands before the auction closes (24 hours or
so)? I'll take it if it closes with no other bids, though. It's item
number 1671231517. Bilal (2328) |
| Bilal, There may be
some hex and square collets in the 3C size. Hardinge list them in
their size capacity chart. I think they would be special order
though. You might call Plaza Machinery or Meridian Machinery.
Tom (2332) |
| Tom, It looks
like I was outbid by nearly $70.00 on the 3C collet kit just minutes
before the auction ended. So...it appears as though I shall be
purchasing the Bison threaded 5C collet chuck from
www.brassandtool.com in the near future. Bilal (2340) |
| South Bend 10K
Drawbar |
| I have a 10K and
have the 6K Collets, however, I am in need of a drawbar. Anyone have
an extra or know where I might get one? Could anyone make one for
me? (3988) |
| Sobel and Plaza
sell handwheel collet closers for about $150, plus or minus $25
depending on condition. There's a guy on Ebay who makes kits of
various sorts. The link below is for the tube alone. I think it's
threaded and you just need to turn a few thou off the diameter and
attach a handle. It sells for $15, and although this auction is
closed, another will surely appear soon, or just use Ebay to send
the guy a message to ask him.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=1719729070 (3989) |
| The fellow on e-bay
does not have his threaded, I can not thread yet! I still need
assistance. How do I contact Sobel and Plaza? (3990) |
| I don't know for
sure, but this looks like it is just a piece of pipe/tube. I don't
see any threads, or any indication that it is threaded in the
auction description. (3991) |
| Plaza Machinery is
listed along with other dealers at:
http://lathe.com/machinery_dealers.htm
Scott Logan (3994) |
| Sobel Machinery
(ask for Dave Sobel) in Closter NJ or Meridian Machinery (ask for
Dave Ficken) in Farmingdale NY (4008) |
| Lever collet
closer 10K |
| All this talk about
collet closers got me excited, but from what I can see no one
currently makes one for the 10K. Do you guys know if there ever was
one for the 10K, South Bend or otherwise? William (4054) |
| I have a
lever collet closer for my 10k - Try Dave Sobel (4057) |
| Collet Drawbar
Handwheel |
| Has anyone removed
the Hand wheel from their drawbar? It is pinned on with two opposing
short pins that look to be peened over on the outside. Getting to
them to drive out from the inside might be possible with some sort
of staking tool, but it doesn't look easy. The only other way I can
see is to grind down the ends and then drive them in to the hollow
center. Dean (5938) |
| I haven't
taken mine apart but I'd be amazed if it wasn't a taper pin in there
just like all the others on the machine. Look closely at both "pins"
and see which one is smaller and drive it out from that end. Dave
(5939) |
| They are tapered
pins that are smaller on the inside of the tube. You should be able
to get punch in the through hole and knock them out. You can then
press the tube out. I have gotten that far on mine. I am planning of
fabricating a new tube as the threads on mine are stripped. Ed
(5947) |
| 3C Collet
Closer |
| I got the lever
closer the other day that I bought on Ebay. Picture attached broken
down. I will be drawing this up and building a test one over the
next couple of weeks. Once I have it all worked out I will post
drawings and instructions at mlathemods of how it comes out.
Compared to others I have seen this old SB design is very simple and
reliable. The only problem I see is that four parts need to be
precisely machined with matching angles and then heat-treated to
where a file will not mark them. Probably RC 55 to 60 which is
pretty hard. One of the nicest parts of this design is no fancy cams
and followers to make and break. The closing and opening function is
handled by balls as from a ball bearing and matching tapers on three
pieces and a sleeve that pushes them down into the taper or releases
them. My design when finished will work the same as theirs but will
by slightly changed first to thread onto the 7x or 9x spindle.
Second it will be much altered in attachment point and construction
of the lever. I am looking to make the main piece of the lever from
aluminum plate with tube for the handle much easier to make. The
drawings when finished will show optional ways of mounting for the
7X, 9x and SB 9" machines. JWE (5962) |
| JWE, All I can say
is "WOW"! I'll be eagerly following your progress reports. This is
better than HSM. Are the four parts that need to be heat-treated
something that one could case-harden at home, or are we talking
sending 'em out for hardening? I will have tool post grinding
capability soon, though. Sounds like a cool project. Thanks for
sharing your efforts/experience with us, oh, and I think one of
those small pieces just rolled under the table. Paul R.
(5964) |
| Paul I will find
out on that as I go. The ones for the special machines here at work
are going to be made from at least O1 drill rod and heat treated and
baked to stress relive. I will be doing this because they will be
doing about 2000 machine cycles every 8 hours of operation and I do
not want them constantly failing like the straight air piston units
we are using now do. I am losing more than an hour a day replacing
bearings and seals in our current ones. These mechanical one will
still be ait operated by a air servo cylinder off the same controls
that operate the old ones. With some discrete alterations for more
simplicity and easing the work involved in maintenance I should be
able to recover several hours of work a week on these machines. The
making the drawings and maybe parts and/or complete units available
to the groups is a side benefit of something that had to be done to
improve out production output. The big car companies have come back
again asking for price reductions right when material and power
prices are up. Never fails. JWE (5966) |
| James W. Early writes: I got the
lever closer the other day that I bought on Ebay. Picture attached
broken down. I will be drawing this up and building a test one over
the next couple of weeks. Once I have it all worked out I will post
drawings and instructions at mlathemods of how it comes out. James,
I saved your message and the photo, hope to get a copy of your
drawings when they're done. Do you have the parts sheets and
instructions on the Collet Closer? If so, any chance you could scan
them and post them by message as you did with the photo? The
information would make the photo more understandable.
Anthony (5998) |
| Anthony I was not
sure so I looked at the SB parts book I have this morning. It covers
the taper attachment, the milling slide, the bed turret, all the
stops and steadies as well as the grinders but not the collet
closers either drawbar or lever. JWE (6003) |
| Hand lever
collet closer info |
| I am in the process
of cleaning up and rebuilding the hand lever collet closer from my
Model C and installing it on my Model A. It looks like there were
some caps of some sort between the set screws and the bushing ,
where the handlever pivots. They were already gone when I got it 30
years ago. I would like to fix it up but I have no idea what should
be there. Does anyone have the parts break down for this? Also my
model A headstock is not drilled for the closer, is there a drawing
showing where and what to drill? I have probably not explained this
well. I can post pictures is it helps clarify the question.
(8061) |
| I think I
have what you are talking about. I got a handwheel closer and part
of a lever closer. The lever closer is of no use to me. If it is
what you need you can have it. It has the oil cups with spring
covers like you describe as missing. Post a picture and I'll see if
what I have is a match for yours. If it is you can have for the cost
of shipping. Jim (8063) |
| Steve I have one of
mine apart right now making drawings of it prior to redesigning for
home manufacture. I can put up some pictures next week and the
drawings will be done in a couple of weeks of the SB unit. It will
be a couple of months before the drawings of my redesign will be
ready. JWE (8071) |
| Steve
writes: I think I have what you are talking about. I got a handwheel
closer and part of a lever closer. The lever closer is of no use to
me. If it is what you need you can have it. It has the oil cups with
spring covers like you describe as missing. Post a picture and I'll
see if what I have is a match for yours. If it is you can have for
the cost of shipping. James, In response to Steve Obert's request
you stated the above. If he can't use it or if there are parts that
he has no use for I'd be interested in *any* parts to this lever
collet closer that you're willing to part with. Please let me know
your thoughts on the matter. Anthony
(8087) |
| Jim, Please give me
a holler before you give that lever closer away. I need some parts
for mine (not the caps) and would be willing to pay you for it if it
has what I need. I'd give the other guy what he needed gratis.
(8091) |
| Steve, Check this
site and see if this is a picture of what you have.
www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/page9.html
If not, email me your street address and I'll send you a copy of
what I think you have from my parts catalog. At least then you will
know all of what you need and what the parts are called. bug (8095) |
| Collet Closer
question |
| I have a handwheel collet drawbar that is too
long to fit my lathe spindle. The length from the threaded end until
the taper where it draws tight against the end of the spindle is
11.25". It is too long. At first when I got it I thought there was a
part missing so I put it away for a while and didn't think much of
it until I needed it. I am now convinced it is not for my 9" lathe.
A 10" or bigger perhaps? It does thread into the 3C collets. I have
include the two pics. One is just of the drawbar itself. There are
no numbers or markings on it what so ever. It does not appear to be
homebuilt. Is this perhaps a collet attachment for another lathe? If
so any idea? Anybody want to buy it?
Alex (8545) |
| When I bought my
9", it had a collet closer like this (too long) and the previous
owner just made a sleeve, and it worked fine. Bob (8547) |
| I thought of that,
but I cannot tighten the collets as they will not fit through the
spindle sleeve correctly. They go in it but somehow the sleeve won't
allow them to be drawn tight. Alex (8548) |
| I really don't know
if the collet closer or the spindle sleeve is incorrect. (8549) |
| Alex Do you have
just the drawbar or a sleeve that adapts the spindle taper (MT3?) to
the collet? Lew (8550) |
| Lew, I have the
closer, sleeve, the big nut to protect the threads, and a few
collets. The sleeve does have the little key to keep the collets
from turning. It is hard to tell but it seams as if the taper inside
the sleeve to close the collets is too steep? Hard to tell unless I
could compare it to another one. Alex (8551) |
| Alex It sounds as
if you have a setup for 1A collets and got 3C collets with it. They
both use the same drawbar and cone spacer but the adapter has a
slightly different taper and the 1A collets are .300 shorter than
3C. (8552) |
| Alex The closer
tube should pull the collet tight just screwing the closer to a
collet outside the headstock if my understanding is correct of how
it works. I may be wrong. I recently bought a Logan that had a 3c
drawbar, 2 adapters (one fits the spindle but the other doesn't t) so
I haven t had a chance to try it. Had what was expected to be a
minor surgery today; they informed me when I came down January 2 for
the pre-op consultation I wouldn't be able to even drive for 2 weeks
so lots got put on the back burner! Hopefully someone else can shed
some light? I may be facing this also. Lew (8553) |
| Alex I'm new to
this collet info but it seems to be rather common practice to just
put a spacer bushing between the closer knob the spindle outboard
end to take care of extra length. Anyone else that can steer me
correctly if I'm wrong? Lew (8554) |
| JWE, I haven't
looked at my collet stuff for a while here. I just went and looked
at it again after you brought up the idea of the sleeve being for
different collets. 2 sleeves did come with it and I just found the
one that does work correctly after rummaging around for a bit. Thank
you for helping me to answer what the other collet is probably for.
I have never heard of 1A collets. Any advantage or disadvantage to
them? Or just a different size? Since I looked at it real close the
drawbar seems to have been cut in two at some point and a longer
spacer brazed in to make it longer. A smaller tube was placed inside
the drawbar to have something to hold it together. This seems to
have reduced the max diameter of material that can be used inside
the bore of the drawbar. At worst I have this one for a pattern and
parts to make another drawbar of the correct size and bore. For now
I will make that spacer and it should work for now. My collets say
"precision" then "3AT" then the size. Any idea who made these? What
does 3AT stand for? Alex (8555) |
| Alex, Is the thrust
collar/bearing assembly with it? If missing that would explain the
'too long. (8556) |
| I know of no thrust
bearing. I have all the parts the SB parts book shows except for the
spanner wrench. It is a handwheel drawbar. I have the draw bar,
sleeve, the big nut to protect the spindle bearings, and of course
the collets. (8557) |
| Lew If he has a 1A
nose piece and a 3C collet it is flat not going to close even with a
spacer. First things first get all the pieces correctly identified
and then sort out what he needs. (8559) |
| Alex 3AT are a
slightly larger collet than 3C but smaller than 4C. 1A collets are
the same in almost all ways to 3C but .300 shorter on length with a
slightly different taper. There are a lot of different sizes of
collets out there and some of them only slightly different in one
dimension but keeps them working with parts designed for another
setup. I ran into the 3C/1A thing about 25 years ago when I went
looking through some used machinery dealers for more collets. I
bought 10 3Cs from one shop and threw them in the back of the car
and went to another shop down the block and found a dozen more with
a couple of square and hex ones included. Well guess, I got home and
cleaned the crud off them so I could read the sizes and low and
behold the ten batch were 3Cs and the dozen batch were 1As. Well I
went and made another nose piece for the 1As and just kept them
together, but I also measure and read the ID tags before I buy
anymore. JWE (8560) |
| JWE Would a 3C
collet fit in the sleeve I have? My sleeve appears to be a perfect
fit for the 3AT collets. I see Meridan Machinery is selling 3AT
collets. I am not too far from Sobel Machinery in New Jersey. I
should stop by there and compare my collets and sleeve to what he
has to determine for sure what I have before I spend any money on
something that may not work. I have enclosed a pic I have just
found. My collets look like the one on the far right. Would the
second from the right be a 3C collet? Alex (8561) |
| James I feel
there s a good probability I'll learn from this discussion also! Lew (8562) |
| Perhaps someone
from the atlas_craftsman group can confirm this--wasn't 3AT the
collets used with the 3MT-spindle Atlas lathes [witht eh appropriate
adapter] and 3C with South Bend? Just a wild-a$$ guess--I wonder if
the "AT" in "3AT" refers to "ATlas" and the "C" in "3C" refers to
"Cataract" [the former name of what is now known as Hardinge, one of
the biggest colletmakers]? From machinery's Handbook, 25th Ed.,
p.966: 3C and 3AT have: 1] virtually the same thread [.640x26 vs
.637x26] 2] different body diameters [.650 vs .687] 3] different
lengths [2.688 vs 2.313] 4] I think they're different tapers Taper
specs aren't covered in the book. By the way a 1A specs out the same
in the book as a 3C except .125" shorter at 2.523". You might drop
an email on colletking@h..., he may have more info. ats
workholding's website [www dot atsworkholding dot com] lists all "C"
collets [5C, 16C, 25C] as having a 10-degree closing angle [20
degree included angle] and "J" collets [2J, 3J, 22J] as having a
7-degree closing angle [14 degree included]...they don't say what
the taper is on a 3AT. (8563) |
| I'd guess the 2nd
from the right is a 3C; you suppose the others are Morse or B S?
While we're at it on collets, anyone ever heard of a B3 collet [NOT
a 3B]? My new [old] Bridgeport "H" head uses these. I've never
heard of them. Yes I did get a set with the head...then again I've
never heard of an "H" head...looks just like a C-head. (8564) |
| Alex Looks right.
My 1A collets look like the 3C but are the same length as your 3AT
and the closing angle does not as far off from the 3C. My 1As to
tell the difference you need to check the length. I would go down
with a mic or caliper a sample and the closer nose piece all to make
sure you get the ones you want. These three are so close in size to
each other and yet incompatible with each other I find it hard to
understand why they did it. (8566) |
| Why not make a
bushing to fit between the left end of your spindle and the
handwheel end of your closer to fill the gap? Just my thoughts. I
use collets whenever possible, and I think you would be ahead for
using them too. Tom (8572) |
| 9" SB Drawbar
Thread |
| Before I
consider buying more seriously a MT3 Quick Change Collet Set from
Grizzly (they currently have a set on sale with 8 collets, arbor and
spanner wrench for $149.95 [normally $169.95]- stock number H2690),
I wanted to confirm the thread on a 9" SB drawbar. Is it 1/2" X 13
thread? I don't have the drawbar yet, but I do have the lathe nose
and 3C collet adapter coming (through an E-bay auction).
Dave (11189) |
| You mention MT3 and
3c adaptor- the two systems are not interchangeable. The 3c system
uses a drawbar with an oddball internal thread, a fine pitch thread
that is slightly larger than 5/8" major diameter. A morse taper
collet uses a drawbar that has an external thread. The 3mt collet
could be used directly in a 9" spindle, but not with the 3c
adapter
fitted. Dave (11190) |
| I guess I'm
totally confused. I'm wanting to be able to do two things. First, I
want to be able to use my lathe to mill (using a Palmgren milling
attachment I already have). I know that I have to use a mill holder
to hold the mill, and the other end fits into what I thought was a
regular SB drawbar. I also want to be able to use collets in my
lathe, and I thought that 3C was the size that was normally used.
I'm learning this step-by-step, and obviously I missed something. At
this point, I don't what I'm even asking. Dave (11191) |
| If you use, lets
say a 1/2" 3C collet to hold your fly, facing or milling cutter, it
will be more rigid [less overhang]. Harbor Freight has the 3-MT, E/R
collet holder you want, on sale almost weekly for $16.99. I have
been satisfied with them. If you haven't dealt with them before,
here's a tip. Skip the free shipping, and have the order go
UPS. Guy (11193) |
| Guy the
plain 3MT collet will be better yet, so you have at least three ways
to use a collet for holding in your lathe. (11196) |
| Dave There is
another company that has them for $60 for a set of 7. It is
www.LittleMachineShop.com
max (11203) |
| Are you guys
talking about the same ting ? the LMS collet set goes for $129, but
it only goes up to 5/8 the Griz set goes up to 1 inch. but, I don't
think they are the same collet sizes.
http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=18446
$119. US but the sizes are not listed. Dave (11205) |
| That's funny the
one in the pic is an R8 collet adapter. Kerry (11210) |
| MT3 collets and
endmill holders typically have 3/8"x16 internal threads into which
an external threaded drawbar fits. Due to this an MT3 collet has no
thru center hole, and cannot hold long stock that would otherwise
need to extend inside the spindle more than an inch or couple. They
are good for holding end mills and short stock. These would work for
your milling needs. 3C collets are hollow, as is the drawtube and
can fit up to 1/2" dia stock fully thru the spindle. Very nice for
working on long shafts/bar stock, reducing wastage of remnant ends
from multiple short pieces as needed working with MT3 collets. The
SB9" spindle taper is MT3. An adapter is necessary to us 3C collets.
It would work for holding end mills, however, I would think it
better to use only a single insert, that being an MT3 collet or end
mill holder. Use of a 3C collet would have 2 inserts between the
spindle and end mill. MT3 collets are self holding, 3Cs, self
releasing. I am not sure how well each holds, but my guess is the
MT3 might hold better for an end mill. Some feel end mill holders
are more secure for holding end mills than collets. In a collet the
end mill can work its way out. The set screw of an end mill holder
is thought to keep the end mill from moving. MT3 collets would
likely be a cheaper alternative than 3Cs. For holding end mills, you
don't need as many sizes, the collets are cheaper, easier to find
and there is no need for the more expensive 3C spindle adapter,
thread protector and draw tube. These latter items can cost a couple
$100, depending on what you get and how badly you want them.
Conversely, you can make a drawbar for MT3 collets/endmill holder
from 3/8x16 threaded rod and a nut/washer - cheap. As for overhang
and rigidity, I agree that using a collet vs an end mill holder
would be more rigid due to less overhang, but I suspect there would
be very little difference between an MT3 collet and 3C collet. Rick
(11219) |
| Rick, Excellent
explanation! That was what I needed! Gotta spend some
slow time and digest what you wrote. Dave (11227) |
| 9" lever
collet closer |
| Well, it would seem
that I got Ebayed. I bought a partial 9" SB lever collet closer that
I thought would replace the broken parts of the one I own. What I
got looks like a newer type that was made more cheaply. It seems
like it might work but I have no idea if all of the parts are
present. Did SB make more than one lever closer for the 9/10 light
lathes? The one I have is 40/50's vintage. Any info or pictures
would be greatly appreciated. I can't post pics but I can email
them. (11328) |
| My parts list shows
a new style and an old style. Some of the differences were in the
method of takeup on the left end. Dave (11330) |
| According to the
parts books I have there are a early and late model on the closer. I
do not know if the two closers I have are early or late but they are
both the same. I am planning on making a similar one for the 7x10 and
9x20 lathes next year that will be parts interchangeable with the
style I have. What parts are you missing for yours as they might be
easy for you to make yourself on your lathe. I have most of the
drawings close to finished for the major parts to mine. Posting pics
to the list is an email function for everybody. Yahoo does not
provide a way to include pictures when posting from the site only
when you respond by email can pictures be included. JWE (11333) |
| The parts book says
that the early style closer uses a single adjusting nut. The final
tension adjustment on the collet is secured with a thumbscrew that
passes through the side of that nut. The later style uses a pair of
knurled adjusting nuts. The pair are set against one another, acting
as "jam" nuts. Other parts of the assembly look similar. Dave
(11338) |
| Please email me the
pictures you have and I will compare them with my catalog. If you
got a South Bend attachment there would be a code number stamped on
it. Have you found that? Rose Marvin (11354) |
| Collet Closer
|
| Does anyone know if
this will fit my lathe? I have a 1920 Model 45 - 18" the hole
through spindle is 1 3/8",Taper in spindle is #3MT.the item in
question is SOUTH BEND LATHE 16" HANDLEVER COLLET CLOSER Item #
2542612068, it can be seen at this url:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2542612068category=1272 Terrance
(12444) |
| Can't
help with your specific question, but you might want to double check
your lathe dimensions. The large end of a MT3 taper is a tad shy of
one inch, not sure how you could have both MT3 and a 1 3/8 inch
through hole. Stan (12446) |
| Stan, I know its
not a #3Mt, that is what the spec sheet from SB says, it does indeed
have a 1 3/8" hole I know that for sure, I assume there must be an
adapter that you have to stick in there first or they screwed up and
were referring to the taper of the tailstock. In any case here are
the specs from the sheet: Model#45-E; swing over bed -18 1/4";length
of bed 8';dis between centers 55"; hole through spindle 1
3/8";diameter of spindle nose 2 5/8x6th; taper in spindle Morse No 3. Terrance (12455) |
| Collet Closer
Compatibility |
| I
have a 1929 9" Junior. I'm looking at adding collet tooling, and saw
this ebay auction (#2543898654)...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2543898654category=1272 . I believe that this should fit my
lathe, but are their any GOTCHAs? I checked the FAQ and the spindle
nose, headstock hole, max collet, and spindle taper seem to match.
But I'm a little nervous because there is less documentation on the
Junior, and some of it makes the point of how dissimilar it is to the
9" Workshop. Jeff
(12654) |
| I can't help you
with info on the Junior, but if I were you I'd be verifying what
collet type the closer uses. His listing doesn't say what size/type
the closer set is, and the only reference seems to be to the collet
set listed separately. Is that a 1-A size collet, or is that a
reference to how good the set is? Is there a 1-A sized collet? The
collet closer looks just like the 3C closer I have, but the taper in
the spindle adapter could easily be different. One thing to check on
the difference between a Junior and a SB9" might be the length of
the spindle, from spindle to gear end. The drawtube for a 9" might
not fit a Junior if the spindles are of significantly different
lengths. I ran into this after obtaining an expanding 3C closer
recently, whose draw tube is too short for the SB9". It wasn't
advertised as fitting an particular lathe, so it was my mistake in
not checking. I've made it fit by making an extender. Rick (12655) |
| Jeff It should fit
all things considered. If the closing tube is to long just make a
washer to fit between the handle and the spindle adapter at the rear
or even make a different length part for there. On mine I use 2A, 3C
and 3AT collets with different nose pieces and the same drawbar with
washers to make up the difference in length between the collet
types. (12657) |
| Lever closer
problem |
| I have a 9A with a
lever collet closer installed. I can't fully engage the back gear
lever to use the reduced speeds because the closer arm interferes
with the travel. Is this normal or do I need something that I don't
have?
(13150) |
| QBox, Are you
saying your lever is pointing to the BACK of the lathe? If it is, it
sounds like it just needs to be flipped over. Remove the bolt that
is holding the unit in place and flip it over so the arm/lever is
sticking out toward you. Philip (13163) |
| No, the collet
closer is installed properly. The part of the closer known as the
yoke bracket prevents the back gear lever from completing its full
travel thus causing only partial engagement of the back gears. It's
all factory SB stuff so I'm puzzled. Anyone else? (13164) |
| Suggestion: take a
picture of the interfering part and post it here. there are a number
of folks with this type of closer and they would be the ones who
might be able to see what the problem is. this is apparently too
arcane a problem to visualize without some graphic aid.
(13239) |
| Draw Bar
Adapter; What Do You Think? |
| I haven't cut
threads on a lathe since I went to a course in Alaska for 6 weeks.
Since then I experimented and cut some 1.5"-8 tpi onto some plastic
and now I have a nice plug to keep the threads clean on one of my
chucks. Tonight I was thinking that I wanted to use my collet
drawbar (with 5/8"-26 tpi) with a morse taper end mill holder that
I've seen come with 1/2-13 and 3/8-16 drawbar threads. Not having a
morse taper end mill holder to see if my what I was thinking of
would work, I set to work. I turned a piece of steel with 3/8"-16
threads on one end, 5/8"-26 threads in the middle and 1/2"-13
threads on the other end. Since I figured that the adapter would
space out the drawbar away from the spindle I made a spacer out of
plastic to space out the handle end of the drawbar. I have no idea
what length the spacer needed to be, so I just made it figuring I'll
trim it to size when I get a end mill holder or two. The thought of
operation is that the spacer would be placed on the drawbar, and the
appropriate threaded end mill holder end would stick out with the
5/8" threaded end inside the drawbar about 3/8". The end mill holder
would be threaded on through the morse taper end of the spindle and
the drawbar tightened to draw the end mill holder into the morse
taper. Again, I don't have a end mill holder (yet) to check it out,
but it sounded good enough to rough it out. It may not work, but it
gave me a bit of experience cutting some external threads. Dave (13568) |
| You
cant see what's going on inside that spindle when your tightening up
on the collets. You could possibly drive that adaptor to the end of
the internal thread and jam it. If you make two separate ones each
with a shoulder to stop the 26 pitch thread, you will get some
practice threading to a shoulder, and protect the drawbar from
possible damage. I just make up separate drawbars for everything,
but that's why my place is so full of stuff. I think it might have
something to do with a fondness for making handwheels as well. Rob
(13586) |
| Handwheel
drawbar |
| Does anyone have
info on collet closers? Picked a collet assembly and it doesn't fit.
There is about 1.2" between the drawbar and collet sleeve when
installed on a Heavy 10 threaded spindle. The drawbar is 14.12" long
and the unit code is HW-102L. The spindle length is 13.75" long. The
pin in the drawbar is real soft and the bearing housing is stuck on
the drawbar. There are holes for a spanner wrench but the parts list
doesn't show threads at this end. How does it come apart? JP
(14374) |
| Contact me off
group and I can send you a scanned parts diagram later this
afternoon. Am just leaving to pick up a Handlever Collet Closer for
a Heavy 10 this morning so I can compare your lengths to the one I
am picking up. Yours takes 5c Collets correct? Ron (14379) |
| JP My heavy 10"
lathe's spindle is 13.687" long overall (using vernier calipers with
the rear cover off). My handwheel collet closer (code HWC-102L) is
11.5" (meas with a scale) from the end with threads to the beginning
of the taper which abuts the rear end of the spindle. This is a
circa 1957 threaded spindle, model CL8187. I can't help on getting
it apart. I've never had mine apart. I have a parts list, but
apparently so do you. Frank (14385) |
| Frank, your
drawbar is an inch longer than the one I have. Looks like I got the
wrong one. The 'soft pin' I mentioned comes out like babbit. I
wonder if that's how someone locked it place. The parts list calls
for a pin. I would have expected the 10" lathe to have the shortest
drawbar. Does anyone have a drawbar for a 13" and if so how long is
it? JP (14386) |
| JP The L at the end
of your unit code implies to me it is also a 10L (i.e. heavy 10")
part. I would expect a drawbar for a 13" lathe to end in T. I'd also
expect the 13" to have a lot longer spindle (as you implied). I
suspect that one of the other heavy 10 arrangements like the L00 or
the D1-4 camlock has less protrusion at the front than the threaded
spindle and therefore a shorter drawbar. Frank (14389) |
| Frank, The
alternate spindle type crossed my mind after my last post. I did get
the drawbar apart with a press and cleaned it up. I think I can move
the tube forward the inch I need by making up an extension for the
back. I bought the collet closer from Sobel right after I got the
lathe and he told me to check it because after a week I own it, now
I know what he meant. I finally got the lathe cleaned up and
operating. When I took the apron off I knew it was going to lead to
more work. I wound up tearing down and cleaning up and repainting
everything except the QC gearbox. Rewicked everything checked the
spindle clearances and changed the repaired Bull gear. Now to make
some chips. JP (14393) |
| 13" SB
Handwheel Collet Closer Sketch |
| Looking
for someone with a Handwheel Closer for a 13" SB. I would like to
build my own but require a sketch with dimensions for it. I have the
Spindle Sleeve and the Thread protector so I only require sketch for
actual Closer Tube. Any help would be appreciated. Ron (14506) |
| Do you have a
small or large bore in the spindle of your 13". Mine is the small
bore variety, if that works for you I can measure mine for you.
Wayne (14507) |
| Wayne: I have a
1.412 Bore and as far as I know in 13" Swing there is only one
spindle size bore. I know the Heavy 10 has two different sized bores
and also takes 5C collets the same as the 13". What sized bore is
yours? Ron
(14509) |
| Ron There were
definitely two spindle bores in the 13" family. In 1942 SB sold only
the small bore (1" bore) 13", with catalog number 113 (or 8113). The
same lathe and model number appears to be the only 13" lathe for
sale in 1949. In 1942 the only SB lathes with the 1 3/8" spindle
bore were the 16" and the (heavy) 10" (even the 14 1/2" had a
smaller bore, 1 1/8"). By 1952 the 13" lathe was model CL145 (or
8145) with 1 3/8" spindle bore. The 1942 13" looks just like the
1952 version except for the single lever gearbox on the former, not
like the early 13" lathes. Somewhere between 1952 and 1957 the CL175
13" emerged, with the 3 step rather than the 4 step flat pulleys of
the CL145. Frank
(14513) |
| Frank: Thanks for
the info on early 13" SB 's. Copy of parts list I have which is
dated 1965 makes mention of only 1.375 Spindle bore but also shows
13" with only Two Lever QC Box. Obviously my info does not go back
far enough to know of some of these differences. Ron
(14514) |
| Ron, Mine is
smaller than yours, about 1 inch. Uses #2 collets, 11/16 max.
diameter. My lathe is older. I could make a sketch of mine and you
could scale it to fit if you like. Wayne (14517) |
| Wayne: Thanks for
the offer but I think I will hold out until I see if someone with
the correct one for my machine posts. There has to be someone out
there with one for the large bore spindle. I remember bidding on one
on Ebay about 5 or 6 months ago but bowed out when it got well over
$150. If not I have the collet collar and will soon have a few 5C
collets so I can install one and take measurements from end of
installed collet to end of spindle. From that point to actual
Handwheel I don't think is that critical so I can probably just use
some common sense on the rest of it. Ron
(14518) |
| Ron I have a 10
heavy that I am working on. i plan on making a collet wheel 5c
closer for it. I have drawn up plans in solid works (solid Model) I
have not finalized them or made it yet so I can't send them or post
them yet. I will once there done Kevin W (14545) |
| Kevin: I currently
have a Heavy 10 Handlever Collet Closer that will be for sale
shortly. Heavy 10 Closers, either Handwheel or Handlever are too
short to fit my 13" 60's vintage SB. I could probably customize the
Heavy 10 Handwheel Closer to fit my 13" by making a longer barrel as
well as a new Lever Bracket but I hate customizing perfectly good
equipment that might be useful to other members. Ron
(14560) |
| I have a 13"
handwheel closer and will make a sketch and send it to you. I may
take me a few days to get it done. I just got the rest of the pieces
together and some collets, it seems to work out real nice. I
actually have 2 of the 13" SB but one has almost no tooling. I have
the best of the two striped and taken apart and when I get time I
plan to get it painted and reassembled. I haven't yet decided what to
do with the well worn one. I may just part it out if there seems to
be enough interest. The ways are well worn as is the crossfeed nut.
Otherwise its not too bad of shape. I do have a toolpost grinder
that I have yet to use, so one thought is to set that up on the worn
lathe but space is getting to be a problem and if I need to grind
something it will need to be as accurate as I can get. Send me your
email and Ill send you my phone # if you need any info in a hurry. I
get busy and the computer gets what's left of my time. Roger (14603) |
| Drawbar
dimensions needed |
| Does anyone
have the dimensions for the drawbar for a 9" SB Model "A" lathe. The
lathe came with many 3c collets the collet sleeve but no drawbar. A
friend gave me a drawbar from a very old Clausing 13" lathe.
Fortunately it also used 3c collets. I only have to shorten it.
Jim
(15363) |
| Its easier to make
a sleeve to space if out of the spindle. I measure 10.5 inches to
the smallest part of the taper. This is on a 9C but all spindles are
the same. Jim B. (15365) |
| Correction: All
later 9" spindles are the same. The earlier 9" (405) are shorter.
The 10K is the same as the 9" Jim B. (15367) |
| The drawbar already has a sleeve on it. I'll just
make another of the appropriate size. Jim (15374) |
| Heavy 10
collet closer question |
| I've been told I
need a "long gear" to make my lever collet closer work. Is this so,
and does anyone know where one may be found? Dan (16506) |
I have that
gear (Spindle Reverse Gear in Parts Manual Part # PT980L1 ) for one
that I have. Can't tell you where to find one ( Almost all Heavy 10" Handlever Collet Closers are sold WITHOUT this piece. Don't know if
they get lost or people that pick up this stuff at auction or
wherever don't realize that they need this piece also.) but can make
a sketch if you need it . Ron
(16507) |
| Instructions
for Handlever Collet Closers? |
| Does anyone have
any SB instructions on installing and using the Handlever Collet
Closers? I have a 13" SB and would like to have a copy of same but
even a set from a smaller or larger machine would go a long way
towards helping me understand how they work. Ron
(16809) |
| I made a drawing of
a Atlas handlever closer mechanism a couple days ago. It doesn't
include the hand lever but, if you want to build one, you would just
have to modify the dimensions. The action mechanism would work on
any machine. Format is AutoCAD 14. If required, I can save in DXF or
make a pdf document. Meanwhile, if somebody on the group has a
sketch of the South Bend design, I would like to compare the
differences. In a far future, I plan on building one for my South
Bend 10K. The exploded view in the part manual is less than anything
useful, except for the part name. Guy (16814) |
| I now have 13" Handlever Closer working properly. Thanks.
Ron (16818) |
| Hand Lever
Collet Closer Attachment? |
| On the Hand
Lever Collet Closer Attachment for the 9/10K lathes there is a Yoke
Pin (stud) that attaches to a "bracket". The complete attachment set
does not include the "bracket". The stud has a 3/8 dia thread. My 9A
has no visible place to screw this stud into. Would a person having
this attachment installed please advise me what the stud and bracket
situation is all about? A pic? I'm wondering is this was a factory
installed option, thus my "threaded stud hole" was not ordered by
the original purchaser. The cat number for the attachment is also a
mystery as none of my info shows a HLC105N. RichD (18011) |
| My 9 inch C
has a circular area about 1 inch diameter, milled flat, about 1/32
inch deep, about 3 1/4 inches behind the front spindle bearing clamp
screw. This is on top of the left spindle bearing housing portion of
the main headstock casting. There is a smooth stud threaded into a
hole in the center of that flat. A cast, reverse curved arm fits
onto that and extends out to go between the forks of a yoke at the
rear of the handlever casting. There is another pin that drops into
that joint for a pivot. Of all the parts drawings I have, I'm sorry
I don't have that one. The drawings I have for the headstock do not
show a hole in that location. Steve (18027) |
| Steve B., others have given me similar info and a pic to show the hole. I have
lots of SBL "forms" and catalogs, but not a word is said about this
little detail. Also, not all headstocks have the front cap screw
pinch bolt to measure from. I'll go with the 3.25" from the front
bearing cap screw. Next problem, how to drill tap the hole
without removing the headstock? Drag a drill press up to it, turn
around the floor base, level everything up and do it? RichD (18028) |
| Rich, Don't forget
the flat spot around the hole. Do you have the arm that goes onto
this pin and connects to the hand lever? Steve (18049) |
| Stephan, I am
buying the unit from "Rigrac". So, I needed the info to make
sure it was correct for my machine and then where the arm hole went.
On of SBL's little mysteries. Is there a drawing? I will wait till
it gets here to fit it up. It looks like attempting to drill tap
with a drillpress dragged into position will be the first trial.
RichD(18050) |
| Rich I bought a 3C
lever set some years ago for my 9 inch model A and everything fit
directly to the machine. The hole was there for the pivot pin and it
was even threaded under the paint so do not go drilling holes until
you are sure it is needed. My machine is a 40s USN surplus model
that was purchased in the late 50s at an auction at the Long Beach
shipyard. I have two of these units as I am making drawings from the
extra one so I can make units to fit other machines such as 7x and
9x lathes that have 3MT spindles. JWE (18052) |
| JS, I'm pretty sure
there is no hole there. The area is a rounded over section of the
headstock casting. The spotfacing would surely give it away. In the
process of marking out the spot, anything premade will show it up.
RichD (18054) |
| Ron, if you are out
there, please contact me. both of your email addresses bounce. "
Rigrac" (18176) |
| On the Hand
Lever Collet Closer Attachment for the 9" lathe there is a spindle
pin (part 17) in the spindle gear shown in the form parts list. Also
a slot is in the closer clutch sleeve (part 16). Do these two parts
(pin and slot) engage with each other? I have received a refurbished
Closer from Ron (rigrac) and in addition to there being no pivot
stud hole on my lathe (9A) the closer sleeve (part 16) does not
slide over the spindle gear shoulder which has no pin (part 17)
installed. Would a person having this attachment installed please
advise me that the pin is indeed on the gear and engages with the
slot as it slides over the gear shoulder. Does the sleeve bear
against the sides of the gear teeth? A picture of this detail would
sure help. Ron, the unit arrived safely and she's a great looking
job. RichD (18454) |
| Whooee! All is
well. Ron's 9" collet closer is now on a lathe that was never set up
for one. The sleeve was sooo close to slipping on. It would be a
perfect press fit if needed. The closer sleeve and the spindle gear
shoulder were found to be hardened. :-( Now what? So, I took a hard
flat Norton India stone and while running the lathe, honed the gear
shoulder to a perfect fit in the sleeve in a few minutes. Then I
took out the spindle (gear is cut into it, solid) and set up in the
Bridgeport mill, found the center of the shoulder and drilled with a
1/8" carbide short drill. When it came thru into the bore I thought
I sensed an increase in hardness. Next was a cobalt .185 drill. It
went dull at the hard inner core, but was just a sliver short of
coming thru. It occurred to me that this would a good retainer for
the pin. I was able to ream 3/16 with no trouble to the hard spot. A
short piece of dowel pin pressed in finished that. Just like
factory. I removed the head stock and set up to drill/tap the 3/8
stud hole in the drill press. Spotfacing the 1" diameter was head
scratcher to find a tool big enough, but the solution was an old 4
flute end mill found to have an end recess that was plugged with a
bit of brass rod and turned to a pilot for the tap size hole. The
lips were ground flat across the end first. The closer is assembled
and running sweetly now. I'll take a pic for the files. Thanks Ron.
It's a good'un. RichD (18507) |
| Lever collet
closer instructions |
| Here is paper on
how to install the lever collet closer on a 10L to 16" lathes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/hutchwood/coldrasblcolletrevisesouthbendcollet.jpg
(20702) |
| Sorry, even with
pasting the link back together, I can not get into your photo album
to view. Jim (20704) |
| Same
here. Worked this morning, but not now. Here is a TinyURL for
reference: http://tinyurl.com/697a4 Scott
Logan (20705) |
| Try this link:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/hutchwood/closersbl.jpg
(20710) |
| Richard, by any
chance is there a 9" version of this drawing? RichD (20715) |
| 10k collet
closer: no sleeve in spindle end? |
| In a 10K, does a
collet fit right into the spindle taper without a sleeve? Looking at
the Army manual posted in this group, the 10K collet closer parts
list shows no sleeve. (The 9" page does show sleeves-- part #
AS795N1-- for both handwheel and lever type closers.) My son and I
are still figuring out the 10K we recently acquired, and last night
was the collet closers. The lathe came with both the handwheel
closer and the new-style handlever collet closer. All the parts
appeared to be there except the sleeves I expected to see to receive
the collet in the nose end of the spindle.
Steve
(20906) |
| The 10-k is
a bit unique, in that the spindle serves as the collet driver, and a
separate closer is not required. Look closely at the mouth of your
spindle, and you should find a small block of steel protruding. This
is a "key" which fits in a groove on the 6-k collets to drive them.
Joe (20907) |
| Joe, That explains
it. Now that you mention it, my son did point out this key to me as
we were trying to figure it out. Steve (20910) |
| The 10K has a
little
nubbin or tit sticking out of the taper in the spindle bore. The 6k
collets have a small projection that fits right into that and you
suck them back with the handwheel. It all works very smooth, just be
certain there's no crap in the spindle, on the collet or on any of
the threads, either on the collet or on the handwheel. I use a
little brass brush the size of a toothbrush to make certain the crap
is off and a drop of oil is a good idea. It's a nice system but the
collets have become hard to find. I'm missing 3 in in 1/32 series
and would like to complete the set so if anybody has any extras, I
would appreciate hearing. You will really like the 10k - the extra
swing comes in handy and parts are no problem. It seems to be very
sensitive to twist so I make certain it is level, check it every
once in a while and you'll be able to do fantastic work with it. Frank (20915) |
| Lever collet
closer bracket? |
| I have a lever-type
collet closer mounted on my model C; well, it isn't actually mounted
so much as its just hanging out in the spindle because the mounting
bracket is among the missing. Assuming that a replacement would be
harder to find than the lochness monster, is there anyone in the
group with a mounting bracket that would be willing to make me a
rough sketch with measurements? From the pics in the army manual it
looks simple enough but I cant gauge the dimensions from the pics.
Tj (21266) |
| Mounting
bracket? There really isn't one. Do you have the curved swinging
link with a 1/2" hole in the end, the other end is attached to the
lever/yoke? If so, that's all there is. A shouldered pin/screw goes
in the hole and threads in to a tapped hole in the headstock. This
tapped hole is only added to lathes ordered with the accessory. If
you are missing the tapped hole, you will have to add it. Been
there, done it. RichD (21268) |
| Rich, I should have chosen my words more correctly. What you
are calling a 'swinging link' is the part I'm missing. In the photos
it looks like a lazy 'S' shaped bracket. My lathe does have the
tapped hole in the headstock but the link and pin are missing. I'm
sure I could make something up, but was hoping to get a look at an
original before digging in. Tom (21269) |
| Tom, OK, the
distance between the holes in the link is 6" the yolk hole is 5/16"
and the anchor pin hole is 1/2". The vertical distance offset from
the bottom of the yolk end to the bottom of the anchor end is
1.7/16". The anchor end is 1.5/16" tall. Make the yolk end a good
fit between the jaws. The link horizontal thickness varies from 7/8
at the yolk end to 1" at the anchor end. The anchor pin is a 1/2" x
1.3/8 slotted headless shoulder pin/screw with a 3/8-16 x 1.3/8
thread. The headstock casting is drilled 3/8-16 and spot faced 7/8"
dia 2.1/4" distance rearward from the spindle centerline. That
covers most of it. RichD(21270) |
| I think
I have one at home. Got it with a lathe. I was saving it to find a
collet closer with out it. I'll have to figure out a price. I think
I have the brass stud for it also. Tom (21273) |
| Rich, Thanks for
taking the time to make careful measurements. I should be able to
make the correct part from that. What I'll probably do is make a
wood mockup and have one cast in Si Bronze. Tom (21274) |
| Tom, the underside
is hollow with the walls 1/8" thick. Rich (21281) |
| TJ: I have one and
would be happy to sketch it for you but I can't get to it for a
little bit as I have a rather involved job taking place at home that
will take a few weeks. I made one for a 13" Handlever Closer for my
own lathe but have since sold it. I might still have a sketch for it
at work which would give you an idea of how I did it. I would offer
to send the 9" Bracket to you but I am in Canada and it gets too
involved with shipping and Customs. Contact me off list for more
info. Ron
(21290) |
| 9" collet
closer |
| Purchased a 9'
Model A and it came with the collet closer. But it looks like that
I'm missing the actual parts to mount the collets. Does anyone have
or know where I can find a diagram or picture of the set up?
(21961) |
| You need two pieces
along with the drawbar and collets. The first is a spindle nose
protector. This protects the spindle thread and is used to remove
the second piece which is an adapter that mates the collet to the #3
morse taper in your spindle. There is a pin in this adapter that
keeps the collet from rotating while in use. Email me at, mg dot bug
at verizon dot net and I'll send you some photos. I have both the
lever and drawbar type closer. Bob (21965) |
| There is an auction
on Ebay of the two parts you seem to need. There are pictures of the
parts that would help you understand what you are missing. The
auction number is 3853208621. Bob (22004) |
| Handlever
Collet Attachment |
| Can anyone describe
for me the adjustments you should make to a mounted handlever (mine
on a 10K) so it "works" correctly? On my new-style attachment, there
are two knurled pieces at the end (the left end as you face it)....a
stop nut a lock collar, both with set screws. It appears you have to
position them with respect to one another, then lock them in place
so that when you throw the lever, the clutch assembly presses the
clutch sleeve against the spindle to tighten everything down. The
lock collar also has a sliding pin whose function I have not yet
figured out. My pin seems worn (peened) so it may not work as it is
supposed to. My problem is I can't seem to get everything positioned
on the attachment so it works correctly. It is either too loose, so
the collet is not drawn tight, or else too tight so the lever won't
work at all. I have searched high low for some written instructions
on these lever attachments but haven't found any.
(23647) |
| You place
closer into machine and loosen set-screw in knurled collar closest
to the rear of spindle ( or closest to body of Closer) . This will
now allow the tube running through the Closer to spin which will
start to draw in Collet. After some drawing in of collet move the
Yoke Lever to its locking position. Too tight will not allow collet
to close on work piece.....too loose will not close tight on
workpiece. Once you have collet closing properly on workpiece then
make sure this inner collar is pulled back up against outer collar
and then tighten up set-screw. Tube is now locked to or "held" to
the Closer Body which itself is keyed to the rear of the Spindle not
allowing tube to rotate separately from the Closer. As far as the
"pin" you speak of I need a little more info on where that pin is.
There are at least two pins that you can see in this Closer so I
need to know which one it is you are talking about. Ron (23648) |
| You've given me hope that I can perhaps get this working.
From your description, the inner knurled collar (between the
outer-most knurled collar the closer body itself, what the parts
list calls a "clutch yoke cone") is loosened via the setscrew until
the collet is partly threaded into the far end of the draw tube and
the collet begins to close on the work piece. Then the two collars
are brought together the set screw re-tightened to lock the two
together, making both collars act as one....turning together. Is
this correct so far? The pin which I cannot figure out runs through
the rim of the sliding "lock collar" (the inner collar, the one with
the set screw) and the pin is about 1/8" dia. x 1" long. It is
simply labeled as a "pin" on the parts drawing. The pin slides back
forth easily in the inner collar and appears to want to fit into a
matching hole in the outward-facing rim of the "clutch yoke cone".
My hunch is that this pin is supposed to link the two pieces (inner
collar yoke cone) together on a permanent basis. The pin would seem
to transmit turning torque as all three are locked together as one:
outer collar, inner collar (now set-screw tightened) and yoke. What
does not seem right on mine is that the pin seems too short to be
able to span the gap between inner collar yoke (looks like it would
have to be more than an inch long to do that), the end of my pin
seems worn, and the diameter (1/8) seems a little small to transmit
torque generated as the attachment turns under load. If this pins
is, in fact, supposed to permanently span the gap between collar
yoke, maybe my pin is now too short because of wear needs
replacement. Wish I could turn my words into a picture to show you.
Could you view a simple .gif diagram if I emailed it to you? Steve
(23657) |
| I have a 9
inch with the handlever collet attachment. I occasionally go through
the same hassle, where the lever does not want to "snap" into the
left-most position, when tightening work in a collet. In a nutshell,
once the outer knurled piece is adjusted for proper amount of collet
draw-in, the sliding collar and its pin must line up with the hole
in the right-hand part. Then tighten the thumbscrew. I don't know a
specific procedure, but make a few adjustments until the handlever
snaps comfortably to the left, and goes all the way to the right
with the pin in the hole in the right hand piece. One function of
all this seems to be to keep the collet from unscrewing when
tightened and the spindle is turning. Steve
(23659) |
| Steve: See if I have this correct: When you finally bring
together the two knurled "collars" lock them together as one with
the set screw, the 1/8 dia. pin (about 1" long?) then runs over to
the hole in the yoke piece, in effect spanning the gap between the
two assemblies (collars yoke) and thus locking all together as the
entire attachment turns. Correct? Steve (23662) |
| Steve: I know
exactly which pin you are speaking of. I have a fully functioning
closer at my fingertips as I type. Its function is solely to stop the
tube from spinning when it is locked up with the setscrew to the
outer collar although it could be said that it does transmit some
torque back to the Closer body.. It should just be slightly shorter
in distance than the inner ring when it is pushed up against the
Closer body. Have you got the collet to close with the correct
gripping force on a piece yet? Try small adjustments perhaps a
1/2 a turn at a time. Maybe you are adjusting it too much one way or
the other in any one try. Ron(23663) |
| Ron. I
think I have it now. That pin of mine is OK and about the length you
indicated. When everything is correct, the set screw tightened the
lever thrown, there is just enough of that pin sticking out so it
will engage a shallow dimple or depression in the yoke cone. The
energy transmitted between the two is dependent on that very shallow
contact....pin to dimple. Not very much but just enough. I have been
able to draw a collet tight on a piece (but not consistently up
until now) and now that I know the correct sequence of doing things,
I should be able to get every thing to work consistently. You're
probably right. I need to make very small adjustments since it seems
there is a small range of positions where everything "works" -
almost a "sweet spot" - and anything outside this means it won't
work. This should end a lost of frustration for me. I've never had
any experience with collets before but I think that I will like this
system after a little practice.
Steve
(23668) |
| Steve: That
pin should be fixed in the Yoke Cone! Is yours not attached to the
Yoke Cone but in fact sliding with the inner collar? That is not
correct if so. Let me know. Ron (23669) |
| My pin is
loose in my sliding "lock collar", not fixed in the yoke cone. From
what you just said, this is incorrect. (23670) |
| Steve: You
got that right! This is probably why you are having problems with
tightening. This cannot be repaired without having to disassemble
the whole closer due to the fact that the set screws ( 2 IIRC ) that
are in the outer collar are covered by the inner collar so they
cannot be gotten at. Ron (23671) |
| Sounds like I
have a disassembly repair job ahead of me. One of the parts lists I
have lists that pin as 1/8 x 15/16 and it looks like it is a
straight pin, presumably hardened tool steel. Do you know if it is a
press fit in that cone yoke, pressed in from the outside? From your
earlier message, you said it should protrude just short of the lock
collar when that collar is joined up (with set screw) to the outer
collar. That would mean the sliding lock collar would engage that
protruding pin only when the collar's set screw is loose from the
outer collar and the lock collar slid over towards the handlever
body. Is this on-track?
(23673) |
| Steve: Let me
explain again as you seem a little confused. This pin, which is
hardened, is pressed into the yoke collar about 3/16" and does enter
from the outside of the yoke housing. It does not protrude into the
area where the split Yoke Bushing is ( the hole is blind and will
not allow that ) but does stick out 3/4" when pressed home. It
length allows it to stay engaged with the inner collar at ALL times.
It should just be a little short of not passing through the inner
collar when that collar is AGAINST the Yoke Housing. I will send you
a digital pic off group if that might help. Ron (23675) |
| I think I see
it now: 15/16 long pin, press fit into 3/16 deep blind hole from
outside of yoke cone, leave 3/4 protruding, with lock collar
permanently sliding back forth on that protrusion. Lock collar
remains "attached" to yoke cone via this pin whether slid right to
tighten collet or left to be set-screwed up against outer
collar. (23676) |
| Don't know
which Steve your are writing to, but thank you very much. I have had
my lathe since about 1968, and for a long time never had a problem
getting the collet closer to set up just right. That is probably why
I never really knew what the collar and set screw were supposed to
do. Until I started having trouble and had to get the hole lined up
for everything to work properly. I know the pin is now loose from
the yoke cone -- will have to see what is going on there. Another
question, on the subject of collet attachments: Is there a way to
open the collet while the spindle is turning, to reset the position
of the raw workpiece, without having the collet unscrew itself?
Steve (23690) |
