| Faceplate
(Nov 3, 2001) |
How much should a face plate
cost? (Jun 7, 2004) |
| Face Plate questions (Jan
20, 2002) |
9" Face plate blanks (Dec
19, 2004) |
| Face/adaptor plate for 9" Junior? (Mar 15, 2003) |
Why are faceplate blanks
slotted? (Dec 29, 2004) |
| Faceplate question (Nov
18, 2003) |
9" faceplates (Dec 29,
2004) |
| Faceplates (Jan 21, 2004) |
Face plate info (Dec 30,
2004) |
| Face Plate Question (Feb
12, 2004) |
Faceplate Question (Mar
16, 2005) |
| Max diameter of a SB9 face plate
(May 19, 2004) |
|
| |
| Faceplate |
| With my South Bend
9" I got a 7 1/2" diameter faceplate I can't use; it appears to be
for a lathe with a 1 1/4x8 spindle thread; no through-hole. Minor
diameter is 1.100. Will try to get a pic of it to email. Does anyone
here have a use for it? (2068) |
| The 1-1/4 x 8 Tpi is a spindle
size found on larger wood lathes. Chris (2069) |
| Face Plate questions |
| What is the
difference between a face plate and a drive plate?, I know there is
something that has T-slots milled in it for clamping. but I don't
know what it's called (I'm REALLY new at this) All I know is I don't
have any of them. Matt (2841) |
| That is the faceplate, A chuck
back plate is similar but sized to fit your chuck. There are also
drive plates for use with drive dogs for turning between centers
that are about the same size as a chuck back plate but with a large
open slot to engage the dog. JWE (2844) |
| Is it possible to use a face plate for
turning between centers instead of a drive plate (I'm cheap,
actually its more like my WIFE is cheap GGG Scott, how much are your
face plates going to fetch? Matt (2845) |
| The one with the T
slots is sometimes called a fixturing plate, those are generally
more massive than a regular faceplate. the regular faceplate is
close to the swing size of the machine and has holes or slots
through it. A driveplate is a smaller diameter, and generally only
used to drive a dog for between centers turning. Any of these plates
can be rigged to drive a dog, or to drive the work directly, by
putting a hole in the end of the work and a bolt in the plate. Just
depends on what yer up to that day. RC (2851) |
| Face/adaptor
plate for 9" Junior? |
| Wanted to run this
past the more experienced on the list. My 9" Junior has a 1.5"x8
spindle and came with a 3 jaw SBL labeled 3 jaw 5" chuck # 6005
mounted on a back plate. Reading the English machining books, they
seem to recommend having a faceplate, as large as the lathe can
handle. Not seeing the need for a new faceplate and with the
scarcity of used machine tools in this part of the Shenandoah Valley
of VA, I came up with this possibility: Get a piece of aluminum
plate 1/2" to 3/4" thick and mount on the back plate. Instead of
slots for mounting castings, etc., drill tap a series of mounting
holes in a 4, 5, or 6 prong starburst pattern. Since eBay
occasionally has cheap identified aluminum vs. what my scrap yard
has, which would be better - 2024 or 6061 grade? Thinking of either
5/16-18 or 3/8-16 NC for the tapped holes. Bob (9769) |
| If you are
suggesting taking the chuck off the back plate every time you want
to use a faceplate and attaching an aluminum disc to the backplate,
I would advise against it. Be thankful that your chuck runs true and
don't mess with it this way. Just my opinion. Faceplates are not
very expensive. Try the used machinery dealers. Or, if you want to
to use a chuck backing plate, maybe you can find a junk chuck and
salvage the plate. If you buy aluminum, you probably won't save a
whole lot over a face plate from a used machinery dealer. Scrapyard
aluminum should be fine - if you can drill and tap it, it'll work.
Look at scrapyard aluminum carefully - a lot of it is industrial and
still has the alloy printed on one side. An aluminum faceplate isn't
a bad idea - I've made sacrificial aluminum faceplates, that I
screwed onto my regular iron one, and find them useful for small,
special work but I probably wouldn't want to turn a heavy casting on
just aluminum. That's a gut feeling - maybe someone else who knows
more can comment about this. Hey - how about getting a piece of iron
scrap plate from the yard and have them cut it small enough to fit
your chuck. bore and thread it for your spindle, turn it round and
face it off and use that instead of risking your nice chuck? Frank (9772) |
| Bob, it depends
on the temper of the material.2024 has a yield strength of 10,000psi
2024-t36 has a yield strength of 50,000,6061 has 10,000 YS while
6061t6 has a YS of 39,000,you will probably find 6061-t6 more
available as it is pretty common. I would not worry a whole lot about
what grade of aluminum you use unless you plan on welding it. Scott (9773) |
| Bob Last time I
made a faceplate I used an old car flywheel. I made a spindle nose
adapter with a spigot matching the hole in the centre of the
flywheel and a small bolting flange. Counter sunk socket screws
fixed the bits together. Ran very true even before and I faced of
the front in the usual manner. Being UK based I managed to find a
suitable diameter flywheel, just had to cut the starter ring gear
off. I'm told US cars tend to be a bit bigger so you might have to
operate on the flywheel first! If you are going to cut slots the
pure starburst pattern is is not the best for Home Shop use. A more
useful pattern is half starburst (ie two horizontal across the
middle, one vertical and two in between at 45 degrees) with 3 or 5
parallel vertical slots on the other half. The parallel slots are
especially useful for fitting an angle plate (either normal or Keats
type) making mounting many difficult bits far easier. Also good for
special purpose fixtures. If you drill holes do them to an accurate
pattern and keep a note of what it is! Threaded hole faceplates tend
to accumulate specific hole patterns for special jobs. Different
threads helps sort out similar sized patterns. I got in a right
muddle through not doing this! If you are going to drill holes you
really need to do them in situ with a milling/drilling spindle. A
clamp to hold an electric drill on the topslide at centre height
makes a decent substitute for a proper spindle. Clive (9783) |
| Faceplate
question |
| I have a Southbend 183C (14 1/2" X 36")S/N 119521. I
found out it was manufactured April 28th, 1941 and shipped to a
naval yard in San Diego. What I am having a hard time locating is a
faceplate that will fit the lathe so I can use lathe dogs. The
spindle size is 2 1/4" X 6tpi. Can anymore point me on the right
direction to purchase one? I might have another option. I do have a
faceplate that doesn't fit the lathe and has a 1 3/4" hole. Why
can't I bore the hole and re- thread it? Corey (15059) |
| You could check out
this ebay item:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2572876612category=25297
Looks like probably the right one? John (15060) |
| Also look at
2572878449. It states "2 1/8 hole" That would be about right for the
minor diameter. According to HTRAL the double depth of a 6 tpi
thread calculates to 0.216. Jim B (15068) |
| Jim, I verified it was the right one and won the auction. Corey (15096) |
| Faceplates |
| I saw some mention
of faceplates the other day, and last night got my BusyBee Winter
specials. (BusyBee is sorta the Canadian Grizzly). 6" cast iron
faceplates threaded 1.5"-8 are on sale for $65.00 CDN, which is
under 50 bucks USD. That's not a bad price, but I'm also thinking ..
why wouldn't a guy just make his own ? I may find out why not, as
I'm in the process of doing exactly that, having last night finished
off the 1.5"-8 "test bolt". But it doesn't seem that hard. Thread a
piece of 2.5" round mild steel, 1.5" long. Bore appropriate 1.5"dia
x 1/4" spindle locating recess. Face flat. Thread it onto the
spindle and turn the outside edge nice and round (important) and
face the other side flat (also important). Take a piece of 5" or 6"
round, 1/2" or 3/4" thick. Face flat, and bore a recess about 3/16"
or so deep to NICELY match the OD of the threaded piece created
above. Bolt and dowel (or weld) the two pieces together. Face the
other side (previously untouched), turn the 1/2" thickness round,
done. In my case, I need to make some adaptors for the other chucks
I have in the house, as the one that came with my SB is too big for
most things and WAY too beaten up, so I have one additional step, to
turn the locating lip for the plain back chuck. But that's all. One
faceplate a night and by the weekend, back in business. Am I missing
something ? A bit of work, maybe, but cheaper AND way more important
(to me), a tool/accessory made by me instead of just bought.
Alan (16688) |
| Mild steel will
work for a faceplate. The advantage to cast iron is rigidity, higher
strength, no galling on the threads and most important - vibration
damping. Find someone around who has a hobby foundry and does cast
iron, or maybe set up one yourself if you want to fabricate your own
'top quality' tooling. JP (16689) |
| Victor
www.victornet.com
has some inexpensive (around $15) unfinished cast iron blanks for
chuck backplates if the dimensions work out. Ed (16691) |
| Good point about
the galling. I make it a point to clean the threads first and plop
a drop of antiseize on them as well. As far as Victor goes, 15
bucks IS cheap enough to attract me, but I can't seem to find them
in their online catalog. Got a hint, or am I just blind ? Alan
(16693) |
| Another thing that
works is to find a mechanical contractor that does industrial pipe
fitting. Get them to order a blank, cast iron flanged pipe flange of
the size you want i.e. 6" or 8" X 2"; what you will get is a rough
casting that looks quite similar to a rough face plate and is way
way cheaper. This is what I use for face plates, chuck adapters etc.
To give you an example: a rough Bison 6"chuck adapter is around
$60can (rubber bucks) a similar sized pipe coupling flange is $18
and if you want real quality a steam application flange is about $2
more and is cast austenitic steel and very fine, similar to
semi-steel that most chucks are made from.
Ray (16694) |
| Alan, I use way
oil, I find anti-seize compound inappropriate for this application.
It was on the 3 jaw when I got the lathe and just held scarf.
Machine Oil won't hold particles, grease and motor oil does. Metal
express has class 40 iron in various shapes and sizes. If you oil
the threads and use a hard fiber washer under the plate where it
shoulders to the spindle you probably won't have any galling
problem. BTW you can get 2 1/4"-8 and 1 1/2"-8 nuts from McMaster
and just weld a plate or fixture to them. JP (16695) |
| Alan, look up
"chuck back plates" in the index. Ed (16696) |
| From the home page
click on "Chucks/Machine Accessories". On the next menu click on
"Backplate, Special Lathe Chucks". The unfinished units are in the
second block down. Jim B. (16698) |
| If you make a
faceplate on the lathe it will go on, how will you test the thread
and alignment surfaces? Unless you: 1.Have a threaded plug the exact
size as the spindle or 2.Do it on another lathe? That would be dicey
at best. I'd think a threaded plug made as close as you can get it
and still fit would be a better choice. Ron
(16708) |
| NUTS .. hmm, why
didn't I think of that ! Alan
(16711) |
| Don't forget to tell
them
that the neck on the plug is .009 over the nominal on a SBL. RC
(16713) |
| Ina Ron Lippard wrote:
Exactly, first thing I did was to make a plug as close to the
original as possible. Frankly, I think I did a pretty good job (just
dumb luck) as the "feel" when threading my stock faceplate onto the
spindle and onto the new plug is about the same. The nice thing here
is that once the raw chuck adaptor is screwed onto the spindle, it
is probably located in very nearly the same place as it will be for
all time. (OK, wear and whatnot may change its location by a degree
or two over time, but not too much more than that) Therefore, when
turning the locating flange for the chuck, that turned lip will be
very concentric with the spindle rotation. Now, the three jaw will
still non-concentric by a bit, but at least I won't be adding to
that error. Alan (16715) |
| RC: Does
this apply to all SBL's, or only the 9" swing models? For example,
would this apply to my 1918 13" swing Model 34? (After reading this,
you can be sure I'm going to start "mic"-ing things that I might
otherwise have taken for granted, which is probably good advice for
any make or model of lathe.) JRR
(16718) |
| Look in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/files/Techinfo/Machine-Specs/sb_7324.pdf JP(16721) |
| You got it Allen.
As a veteran of dumb luck, I can say it (dumb luck) is the realm of
the gods...who have an insidious sense of humor! If I were asked what
part of the spindle is the most important surface it wouldn't be the
threads. Rather the mating faces and that little dia. between the
threads and the shoulder. To get it closer then .0005 is a bit to
hard for the average shop. If your turning a plate for a 3-jaw
chuck, a light interference fit is fine. Most chucks today have an
internal mechanism for truing the jaws. Even older chucks have
these. My old SBL came with a 3-jaw that allows you to loosen the
body to tram in dead-nuts. If you don't have one of these, there is a
way to still true up worn jaws. It appears in an article of American
Machinist circa 1900.I'll dig it up if you like. I check my chuck
when I'm not busy doing other things. I keep a ground piece of very
concentric 1" bar stock in my box. I use this for tramming my lathe
only. I take as much as an hour to get it on dead "0". Then I am
careful not to use the lathe to do any light press work or rough
work. Unless I have to. Ron
(16722) |
| Over the years I
have made several pieces of spindle nose tooling without using a
special plug gage. I use the spindle nose itself. First bore the
minor diameter of the thread then bore and face for the register
depth and diameter plus maybe .0005" clearance. Now screwcut the
threads. When it comes to checking, simply unscrew the chuck with
mounted tooling from the spindle, turn it end for end, and try it on
the spindle. If you need to take off a little more, but it back on
the spindle and take off what you need. It never ceases to amaze me
how many times I have seen the use of a special plug gage
recommended for this job when the above process is so simple,
especially when we're talking about 1.5"/8 spindles. BTW, for 1.5"/8
spindles, is SB unique with a .009" oversize register diameter? I
know that Atlas uses 1.500". Does anyone know what other makes that
have 1.5"/8 spindles use for their register diameters?
Dennis (16738) |
| I assume you mean that the washer is to keep the
faceplate/backplate/chuck from butting right up against the flat of
the spindle, just to the "left" of the spindle threads. Where would
one purchase such a fiber washer ? And any reason not to use a
conventional (thin) steel washer? Like that used with needle thrust
rollers? (17072) |
| Face Plate
Question |
| There is a 6 5/8
FACE PLATE,1 7/8X8TPI on ebay. Item #2594680817. The description
says "It has the corners broke off by the dog cutout but it will not
cause any problems." The picture verifies the damage. Are the broken
corners really not a problem?
(17218) |
| First
make sure it will fit your lathe. I think its for the odd ball
threaded spindle on a heavy 10. The broken off pieces may or may not
cause a problem. Depends on how fast you will be turning. This part
isn't technically a face plate, but a drive plate. A face plate
wouldn't have the cutout. A drive plate is used with a (drive) dog
to turn parts between centers. Still, you can use it as a face
plate. The problem of being balanced can be corrected by bolting on
weight (s) to achieve a balanced part. Even with a good faceplate,
this must be done. Trust me, even at 500 RPM and off balanced part
can really shake a lathe. So, the missing material doesn't preclude
this item from being usable. Just be aware of what setups you will
need this part for. Lets say threading of shafts. Threading (at
least to me) is done at slower speeds in backgear. No problem hear.
Low RPM, not much of a balance problem. I would suggest, that in
this operation that you put something (like wadded tape) to keep the
tail of the (drive) dog against the (in direction of rotation) the
drive plate. This precludes the thread from being out of sink with
the threading dial. THe inertia (of rotation) should prevent this,
but its best not to find out. Tom (17221) |
| The South
Bend Catalogue (3/89) calls these "Small Face Plates" and the
description is as follows: "Heavily constructed and accurately
finished with milled thread for precision fit on lathe spindle. Have
slot for driving lathe dog." The 1-7/8 x 8 tpi. thread is the Heavy
Ten with 11/16" collet capacity (code 10R). As to balance, it all
depends what kind of RPM's you're turning. This shouldn't be a
problem if you are working in the back gear ranges. Also, most the
time I have to mount work on a face plate and have to turn a high
RPM's, I have to set-up counter balance weights anyway. Lathe dogs
will run out of balance a high RPM's anyway. As to this face plate,
I would be worried about the possibility of cracks because of the
rough handling it's received. Webb
(17223) |
| Tom, It's an
oddball thread alright. That's why I try to take a good look at
anything with that thread size. My 1937 13" has that same thread. As
for what I am going to do with it. I'm not quite sure yet. Brand new
to this field, sort of. Used to be a mechanic and later a
transmission rebuilders. Ran a brake lathe or two in my day, but
that's it. I bought the lathe to lighten or repair transmission
parts for racing. I can see wanting to turn a shaft between centers.
I would also like to make my own specialty tools...bushing drivers,
etc. I thought that treading would be a neat capability to have.
After the past several posts on the subject, I think I'll wait till
I get a whole lot more experience under my belt first. The balance
issue never came to mind. I was concerned about the dog not holding
correctly. If it stays inexpensive, I may pick
it up anyway. Given my experience, or lack thereof, it would be a
cheap practice part.
(17224) |
| Webb. I
hadn't thought about cracks. I'll ask the seller and see what he
says. The 1-7/8 x 8 tpi is also the small bore spindle 13's, which
is what I have. Plates" and the description is as follows: precision
fit on lathe spindle. Have slot for driving lathe dog." capacity
(code 10R). This shouldn't be a problem if you are working in the
back gear ranges. Also, most the time I have to mount work on a face
plate and have to turn a high RPM's, I have to set-up counter
balance weights anyway. Lathe dogs will run out of balance a high
RPM's anyway. cracks because of the rough handling it's received.
(17225) |
| Don't fret
to much over threading. Basic threading as most machining is good
setup. Maybe get some experience doing basic turning first though.
As you have been following the threads for a while, you can tell
there are some very knowledgeable people on this board. David really
did a good job of detailing how to pick up a thread. I am sure some
of use can talk you through it when you get there. Also, look around
for some good machinist books. I can recommend any myself, having
learned in a shop environment. Even some of us who have had to make a
living at this have learn a thing or two on this board. So ask
questions. Tom (17226) |
| Most drive
plates I have seen at used machinery places are going for $20 to $40
depending upon condition and popularity. Stuff on Ebay marked
'Southbend' seems to go a bit higher. JP (17227) |
| Max diameter of
a SB9 face plate |
| What is the max
diameter you can safely use for a homemade faceplate for a SB9? I
just picked up a 'machined' plate of aluminum about 2 inches thick
by 9 inches. How much should be taken off the diameter? What
diameter 'chuck adapter plate' should I use, the options are a 4
inch and 6 inch? Both are premade from 'little machine shop'
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=-1110836144 (19137) |
| If the blank is 2"
thick just bore the a hole through the center and thread it to your
spindle. If you can't thread it have a machine shop do it for you. I
wouldn't add a mount plate to the back. I have a 7" faceplate that
was made for my 9" by South Bend. Paul (19145) |
| How much should
a face plate cost? |
| I
have a SB 9" model A. I'm looking for parts. I found a face plate on
ebay, but it sold for $289.75! That's 1/3 of the cost of my lathe!
Could someone tell me what a used face plate in good condition
should cost? John PS. ebay item # 3818482635
(19521) |
| First
of all, that face plate sold for $214.62, not $289.75. Second, this
is not a simple faceplate. The one listed is an elaborate faceplate,
with machined slots and dozens of tapped holes. If this were being
sold new, I'm sure it would cost this much, unless there were a huge
demand, and large lot quantities. As a used item, it seems a bit
high. Do you really need such an elaborate faceplate or something
simple for occasional bolting on of work, and dog-driving? We
manufacture cast iron faceplates that will fit the 1-1/2 x 8
threaded spindles, and I would think they could be had on eBay for
something more like $20-$50. Scott Logan (19522) |
| Sorry, I should
have noted that's Canadian dollars. Still, $20-$50 dollars is a far
cry from $214.00, and a lot closer to what I would be willing to
pay. Bottom line is: I need a face plate. Anyone have one they'd be
willing to part with? John (19524) |
| If all you need is
to drive lathe dogs and do simple clamp setups, a $10 chuck backing
plate can be easily modified. Better to machine it in place on YOUR
spindle anyhoo. I have one of the hard-to-find extra-heavy OEM
faceplates with a zillion holes and slots, about 1 1/4 inches thick,
the used-machinery dealer I bought it from had never seen one like
it but it is OEM or at least stamped with an SBL p/n, like-new
condition, cost me $75. Lurch (19529) |
| That is a expensive but that faceplate is made of a pc of solid
billet steel and not a cast iron faceplate like you typically see. I
sell them typically in the $20-$40 range, such as item 3817759419
they are very common. I don't think you would ever need one like that
one that got over $200. jeff
(19536) |
| John I'm sure
you can get a no name brand one from KBS tools out of the Toronto
area for a reasonable price. I also need one except mine has a D1-4
camlock spindle ! BTW I don't live to far from you. I'm just south
of Brantford ! Mike
(19537) |
| I bought a genuine
South Bend cast iron face plate for my SB Heavy 10, in new condition
on ebay for $37.00. I got a little lucky on this one as they seem to
go normally for about $75.00 to $95.00. Also, Metal Lathe
Accessories sell a beauty of a slotted face plate which is an
unfinished casting for about $100.00. I have one of these MLAs also,
for my 9" South Bend. Perk (19558) |
| John, You can pick
up a semi finished backing plate for a chuck that already has the
bore threaded to 1-1/2 x 8 that is +7" diam for around $66. Size of
Thread: 1-1/2-8 Dia. A: 7-7/8 B: B C: 63/64 Plate Thickness D: 3-5/8
Hub diam. Or you can get a 6" diam cast unfinished for about $15 and
thread the bore your self. Drill and tap to your heart's content,
slot if you want and viola, face plate. And you didn't spend the
family savings on a POS from HIGHBay... Dia. A: 6-11/16 B: 3/4 Plate
thickness C: C D: 3-11/32 Hub diam Hole Dia.: 1-9/64 Even if you buy
a finished plate you're still going to have to witness this to your
spindle and face it off so that each time you mount it, it will be
square, etc. JJ 19565) |
| 9" Face plate
blanks |
| Would anyone in the
group be interested in 9" cast iron face plate blanks? I am going
down to my local foundry to see about a price. Email me offline if
interested. Bob
(23215) |
| Man that must
be nice ! What type of prices do they charge ? Dave (23228) |
| Dave, Yep right up
the street. I have a couple of buddies that work there. I am going
there Weds my day off. They charge by the pound. I can make the
patterns. Bob
(23229) |
|
Bob. If you are thinking there will be a good price break for a
volume order I would like to get on the list for one. If, like you
say, they charge by the pound then it won't make any difference. I
would still like to know what they will run. Marshall
(23230) |
| I have my bonus
check coming, can't think of anything better to spend it on. 1 a
bigger lathe, 2 lots of steel for projects. Bob (23231) |
| I make Wood patterns ? Shoulda asked what part of the country?
Shipping could easily out- price some stuff. Ideas : a fixed, clamp
on carriage as the basis of a CNC clamp on fixture. A channel for a
CNC axis, probably 6" wide, by 10 inches long, by 1/2 thick with the
legs of the channel 1/2 thick by 2 inches. large dia steady rest for
my 9" Great.... now All I'll be thinking about all day is the
possibilities. Dave
(23233) |
| Count me in as interested. I would like to see faceplate
blanks, steadyrest, cathead, traveling steady, toolpost mods,
tailstock specialties ( die holder, live tail, thru-hole types,
etc.) etc. maybe we could get a local ( groupwise that is) to do the
basic machining of the bases and clamps for a batch so that those
without a mill or shaper could enjoy the wealth also. I can do some
clamps but probably not the bases.
(23236) |
Keep in mind, MLA
sells a very nice 8 1/2" faceplate for $45.00.
http://www.sc-c.com/metallathe/index.html
Ed P
(23243) |
| Yes and it is a
nice one, but I don't want the t slots. If they made a flat faced
one I would send in my check today. Bob
(23247) |
| Get your checkbook
out. The Faceplate shown at: http://tinyurl.com/4q96k Is a kit
including a casting, drawings and machining instructions. Metal
Lathe Accessories (Andy Lofquist) will probably be at Cabin Fever
and NAMES. I know he usually sells out all the sets he brings, so if
you want something, contact him in advance, and you can probably
save shipping costs that way. - Scott S. Logan (23248) |
| I don't know what you have against t-slots. They have come in handy
over the years, including those tapped holes. Ed P
(23251) |
| Scott, I may be
interested in Dura bar in smaller pieces for other projects. What
grade iron is it, what sizes and shapes are available? JP (23259) |
| The MLA face plates
are cored meaning there is an unfinished groove in the casting. You
would need to machine away about 3/8" of an inch to get a smooth
front. Which is fine if there is enough meat in the rear. I would
like a price on your Dura-Bar how much for a chunk 2" thick 9" od.
Bob
(23260) |
| Bob, That faceplate
is not machined, so you can eliminate the slots. You will, however,
need to machine the threads, register, etc. George (23264) |
| Before all
this gets out of hand. A. the MLA face plate will not work for what
I want t slots or not the OD is too small. B. I just spoke to the
foundry they are working up some numbers. So THANKS to everyone that
posted to the group. If anyone has any questions please sent to me
offline. Bob (23268) |
| Also, Keep in mind
that the $45 is for the green casting, not a finished part. If you
want a cheap source of CI for a faceplate, consider a dumb- bell
weight or weightlifters weight of appropriate size. Dave
(23273) |
| At one time, he did
offer the 9" cross slide as a finished part. To all those single
tool shops who cannot finish the crosslide it was an option.
Dave (23275) |
| Bob, and all. I
have this MLA T slot face plate. Unless the pattern has changed,
there is no way you will machine away the T slots and have anything
left to make a viable faceplate. This is not an ordinary faceplate
with a thick face. The rim is deep, but the backside is very
hollowed out and hollowed out between the T slots as well. Machining
the face flat and boring the hub and threading and trueing the edge
is all you have to do. Very little else can be done. I surface
ground the face before turning, taking off just enough to clean it
up. Any deeper would destroy the casting for any other use. Max
diameter is about 8.5/8" RichD (23276) |
| Dave, the slide was
offered to be sent to a shop at added cost only for surface
grinding. I have one as well. It was a waste of money as the drawing
dimensions were not adhered to. Finishing was up to the owner as
usual. RichD (23278) |
| Rich, That
is what I thought the slots were rough cast in. My samples were done
today 1 day service plus the first 2 were FREE. Bob
(23300) |
| Bob, The T slots
are very clean. Could almost be used as is, but will probably machine
mine out to match my hardware. I lost track. Samples of what? I may
be interested in a face plate casting. RichD (23302) |
| Bob I hate to be dense but I'm not too good with
acronyms. What is MLA? I just got to thinking that folks like myself
who only have a 9" lathe are going to have one heck of a time
machining our own 9" face plates unless there is a boss of
sufficient size protruding from both sides of the blank that can be
chucked up in our machines, or if only from one side then the blank
would have to be thick enough to turn one on the other side. If my
thinking is off (not unheard of) please correct me. Thanks Marshall
(23313) |
| Marshall, MLA is
Metal Lathe Accessory they make nice replacement parts and project
castings. They are in the links. Yes you are right about needing a
boss, my first 2 I got don't have it so they can't be chucked up in
a small lathe. The next batch will have them. I will need to borrow
my buddies to thread the hole. Once you thread the hole you can
thread it up on the spindle (with a spacer for the spindle shoulder)
and do the backside. Which includes cutting the clearance for the
shoulder. Then turn it back around and machine to your fancy...Bob I
just got to thinking that folks like myself who only have a 9" lathe
are going to have one heck of a time machining our own 9" face
plates unless there is a boss of sufficient size protruding from
both sides of the blank that can be chucked up in our machines, or
if only from one side then the blank would have to be thick enough
to turn one on the other side. If my thinking is off (not unheard
of) please correct me.
(23317) |
| Glad to know I
wasn't too far off. What does it look like these blanks are going to
cost and will they fit into those Flat Rate boxes mentioned earlier?
(23318) |
| The way I always
did it was to first bolt the un-machined face to a smaller faceplate
or drive-plate (or a chuck back) and then machine it to fit the
spindle nose. Place the bolt holes where the slots will end up and
you have no signs of chucking. Finally, screw it onto the spindle
and machine the rim and face. No boss required. If you have a chuck,
you probably have a chuck backplate. If not, chuck up something you
can bolt the casting to and away you go. Paul H.(23320) |
| I made a small face
plate for this purpose for the blank I was going to buy from
McMaster. Good point. Bob (23322) |
| Bob,
I would not want a chucking stub (boss) on either side. Unnecessary.
Clamp the back of casting to a face plate with spacers, face it off
rough, reverse it on the face plate, center up, bore and thread the
center. Now mount it on the spindle thread and finish facing and
turn the edge. To use a a stub you will have to turn it true using a
face plate anyway. RichD. (23323) |
| Interesting. My
problem is I have NO face plate. How can this be done without one
then?
(23324) |
| Is your chuck
mounted with a backing plate? If so, you can unbolt the chuck and
use the backing plate as a face plate. If not, you can bolt
something to the face of the rough casting and hold that in the jaws
of the chuck. Paul H. (23325) |
| If you
have a chuck with removable 2 piece jaws (I wouldn't use a good
chuck) you could drill the plate and bolt it to the chuck where the
jaws go. But I only would do it as a last resort. Or you could
borrow one from a buddy. G (23326) |
| Good idea. Guess I
just didn't have my thinking cap on. (23328) |
| I made a chuck
backplate on a mate's big Harrison from a cast iron blank by
chucking it on the blank's rear spigot and turning just the edge,
then turning the plate around, chucking on the turned edge and then
machining the whole rear, bored the spigot and cut the spindle
thread. I then took the plate back to my model C, threaded it onto
the spindle and machined the front, including in this case, the
register for the chuck, which obviously wouldn't need to be done on
a faceplate, and then 'cleaned up' the edge after the chuck was
fitted to bring the plate to the same size. Not a faceplate I know,
but essentially the same operations. The blank cost me œ18 (say $30)
from Chronos in the UK. It was bloody awful, with lots of very hard
inclusions. Len
(23329) |
| If you don't have a
chuck with a removable back plate or a chuck at all, measure the
length of your headstock spindle and add one inch. Also measure the
ID of the smallest past of your spindle. Go to a plumbing supply
shop and have them cut and thread a piece of pipe that will fit the
ID and length (plus one inch) of your spindle. Likely it will be 1/2
inch pipe, but you may nee to go down to 3/8 inch (or up, for a
large lathe). While you are there, also get a floor flange sometimes
called a waste flange for the size of pipe you had threaded and a
pipe nut, female coupling or cap for the other end. Finally you will
need two washers to fit the pipe. Screw the flange on one end of the
pipe and slip on a washer. Slide it into the threaded end of the
spindle. If the pipe is a real loose fit in the spindle shim it up
by wrapping masking tape around it in a couple places. Put the other
washer and pipe nut, female coupling or cap on the other end of the
spindle and snug it down. Face off the flange and mount your blank
with a couple washers in between to give the tool bit someplace to
go. That will get you by enough to bore and thread the faceplate.
Take light cuts and check to see if everything is still tight after
each cut. Don't expect to get perfect results, but it's how I made
my first backplate for a four jaw chuck thirty years ago. Roy (23331) |
| It seems that
necessity is truly the mother of invention. A bit of thinking
outside the box has yielded several solutions. I am now armed with
enough ideas that I can make one. (23333) |
| The masking tape part scares me. I
would offer that one could buy a morse taper to fit the spindle (NOT
hardened) or even a solid center, again, NOT hardened. That would
make for a perfect fit. With that, one could cut an OD so the pipe
would fit onto it and then cross drill it. Then turn the OD of the
pipe as above. Another step, but one that would add to the rigidity
and would add the solid center one would use for other things
anyway. But, VERY LIGHT cuts would be in order as you say.
Dave (23336) |
| If you can suffer
with a few holes, you can either make a ring as a boss, or bolt it
to your chuck if that has removable jaws. Dave (23337) |
| Dura-Bar G2
is a pearlitic gray iron containing Type A graphite. Gray Iron bars
made to this specification have optimal strength, wear and hardness
when compared to the other gray iron grades. This material is well
suited for applications requiring high resistance to wear and
response to heat treatment. This specification is similar to ASTM
A48 class 40. Tensile Strength: 40 ksi Fatigue Strength: 20 ksi This
is available is round solid from 5/8" Dia to 20" Dia, all slightly
oversize to allow finishing to specified size. It is also available
is cored round bars and rectangles in many sizes. FWIW, we use this
material to manufacture the Chuck Backs for Logan Lathes. Scott
S. Logan (23351) |
| Scott,
sounds like good material for widgets and gizmos as well as chuck
backs. I get the impression that you are piggybacking faceplate
orders on your regular order but you don't stock a wide assortment
of sizes. What sizes do you normally have on hand? JP (23354) |
| Why are
faceplate blanks slotted ? |
| In looking
at my faceplate and others, it seems they are always slotted. The
simple answer is for a dog, but is there a metallurgical one ? will
Cast Iron warp or expand and crack if it was solid ? And, a group
question. for 9 inch owners anyway. What is the ideal faceplate size
? and what is the largest you might ever need ? I am also thinking
about making a faceplate. My original is 6" but I only have one.
the second lathe is without. And if I am going thru the trouble, why
not make it the must useable. Dave (23513) |
| The simple answer
is: They are more versatile. Otherwise; you might have a plate with
500 holes in it, and not a one lines up for the next project.
Joe (23514) |
| A faceplate is a
great tool for mounting irregularly shaped parts to be machined. The
slots are there to bolt the part to the faceplate. Or go to town and
drill holes where you need them. The ideal size faceplate is the
right size for what you are machining. I do have a small one for my
9" SB to use for running a lathe dog. I'm looking for a large one to
mount projects against. Alex (23515) |
| Dave, the SB 10"
has a faceplate style with short slots and a pattern of tapped holes
around each slot. My fav. A thick plate is much preferred as many
are way too thin and when clamping stuff the plate distorts
misaligning the part. I hate that. The MBL casting is too thin,
IMHO, but makes up for it with the very heavy/deep rim. RichD (23516) |
| No, it
doesn't warp or crack for no reason. Cast iron must age. Make a
casting and rough machine it, let it sit for a couple of months and
finish it. Cast iron is very stable and moves less with temperature
than most common materials, this is why engine blocks were made from
it. You can artificially age it with temp cycling in a controlled
oven. Did you ever see the pictures of the piles of castings at the
Southbend plant, they were being aged. Easy way out is to pick up a
chuck backing plate already tapped for your spindle and drill and
tap mounting holes in the face as you need them. By the time you get
it, it will already be aged. Pick up the largest diameter you can
mount on your spindle and leave it full thickness. JP
(23522) |
| JP, Dang! Why
didn't I think of that! RichD (23527) |
|
www.littlemachineshop.com has threaded backs for about 45 bucks + or - I
bought 2 of them for my chucks. The China cast isn't that good I hit
a Pinto bumper when I was turning mine. Bob (23528) |
| Why not mount a
disc the size of your desired faceplate on your six inch faceplate.
you can drill holes wherever you like. Even mount workpiece before
mounting to smaller plate and have room to adjust for true running.
if it don't work out you can use it for something else or you just
might like it so much that you use it for everything. Quick, dirty
cheap just the way I like it. joe
(23530) |
| A disc brake rotor
would work for this application. They are balanced as well.
JP (23532) |
| For work mounting
the biggest faceplate you can swing is best. Needs to be thick
enough to be rigid, I'd say 1/2 inch at least overall with 3/4 rim
about 1/4 wide is a good starting point. I'm told by those who ought
to know that a thicker rim does nice things to the stress
distribution when you bolt things up and, should the mating faces be
less than true, a thicker rim on a slightly thinner plate reduces
distortion relative to a constant thickness plate. Slots are more
versatile than holes but, as ever its the jobs you do that matter.
Most plates these days have a radial slot pattern. Aesthetically
appealing but I consider the old English pattern with vertical and
horizontal slots, usually 4 or 5 vertical 3 or 3 horizontal, much
more versatile. Other things to make when you've done the
faceplate:- 1) Bench set up thingy. Basically a replica of the
spindle nose in a decent size ball bearing carried on a plate
arranged to clamp on bench or in vice with the faceplate horizontal.
Much easier to arrange things and get them running true with the
plate horizontal so that things stay put unclamped rather than
vertical when they insist on falling off. Ball bearing lets you use
a dial gauge to set true. Don't forget a lock so you can unscrew the
plate once everything is mounted (Whooo forgot and had to take every
thing off again to get it unscrewed!). 2) Keats type V block.
Basically a V block on a plate so you can fix it to the faceplate
and hold round things eccentrically. Used to be able to get casting
sets but its not too difficult to modify a standard block or devise
from scratch. Great "now how the blankety-blank do I get out of
this" device for stuff that wont go in a 4 jaw but don't take heavy
cuts. Clive (23534) |
| That
was another option. It would be a simple matter to make a hub and
bolt the rotor into it. The rotor is machined and has a machined
bore. That way, one could mount the larger stuff when needed. I am
thinking of that as a means to hole the large plugs for a large face
plate. Dave (23545) |
| 9" faceplates |
| Here's a pic of my
next project. But I may have to wait until my 16" is home. Here are
4 cast plates I got for samples. They are 9.5" od and a full 2 3/8"
thick 40+ lbs each. I don't know if I will buy anymore they are 103
bucks each. Plus the 5C collet set up my neighbor had in his barn
for 20 years. All I have to do is weld on his tractor tomorrow, nice
trade. Bob (23519) |
| With that little
piece of info I think it is safe to say that you can remove my name
from the list of folks interested in buying one. That is
considerably more than I was expecting. (23521) |
| Robert: Looks like
closer is approximately 11-1/2" long from threaded end to start of
taper from your pic. That would make it for a Heavy 10" not a 16".
Ron (23523) |
| Ron, I may
have to modify it in the length but the price was right. Bob (23525) |
| I
thought he meant that he has to wait for the 16 to be able to turn
the blanks. I would not turn them on my 9" Dave (23546) |
| Face plate
info |
| My old P W 12 X
30 has a D1-5 camlock spindle, and it is difficult to find used
faceplates and chucks for it, most are D1-4 or D1-6. I found a nice,
heavy 8" face plate with D1-5, but it has "T-nut" slots in it. What
are the objections to this type of face plate? Can I still drill and
tap it in some fashion to make it more useable? Wade C.
(23538) |
| Wade, There are no
objections to such a faceplate! The T-nut slots allow for an almost
infinite positioning of mounting bolts and step clamps, thus makes
drilling holes unnecessary. Roy (23557) |
| Faceplate
Question |
| I have a couple of
faceplate for my SB9 lathe and I was wondering if it is normal that
when I screw them on, they don't go very far, nothing close to the
shoulder. The thread seems the same and they came with the lathe so
I assume that the prior owner used them with it. Pat (26157) |
Make sure the
threads are very, very clean. I use a dental took to carefully ease
out any chips or crud from the threads. Eric
(26160) |
| The spindle of
a SBL 9" lathe has a shoulder that is 1.509" in diameter. Faceplates
made for a machine with a 1.500 diameter shoulder wont run up to the
seat on the SBL. Its a good possibility that the previous owner
never even used the faceplates. Measure the bore in the back of the
plate and see if it is able to clear the 1.509" register on the SBL.
RC (26162) |
| I don t think it
is a shoulder problem as it is not even getting close to the
shoulder. It only engages for a maybe 1 turn if that. One thing I
don t know if it matters but the pointy ridges of the threading
(sorry don t know how to describe it better) is pointy on the
spindle but has a little flat part on the faceplate threading. And
as you can see in the pics that I hope will work, for the bigger
plate, even if it could go all the way to the shoulder, it would
bump into the belt tension lever. Both plates screw about as far and
are clean. Pat
(26172) |
| Pat, The spindle is
hardened steel and the faceplates are most likely cast iron. It is
common for the internal thread on the faceplate to have flat tops on
the thread while the spindle shows sharp top threads. What is also
common on used faceplates is to have fine metal chips embedded into
the thread in the cast iron. With oil and dirt added you will never
see them in there but you won't be able to screw the backplate onto
the spindle to the shoulder. You don't know how badly someone else
messed it up by forcing the plate onto a spindle with swarf on the
threads. I use an 'Internal Thread Chasing File' and clean out the
faceplate threads. A little dental pick is about useless for this
job, you need to use some pressure and it takes time to clean the
threads out completely. The part number for the file from McMaster's
is 2616A16. The faceplate should screw all the way to the shoulder
by hand. JP (26177) |
| You can see from
the photo that there is insufficient thread depth within the
faceplate, to allow it to screw on all the way to the shoulder.
However as it only goes on one turn I would NOT recommend toy use
THIS faceplate on THIS lathe. I would guess that the faceplate is
not specifically for this lathe. You may be able to improve the
situation by making and using an adaptor that WILL fit on the
spindle and will allow correct fitting of the faceplate on its
threaded end. (26189) |
| They just don t
fit. I've tried everything suggested to find out why and I am now
reasonably certain that this is a pitch (Diameter?) problem. The big
plate is stamped SouthBend and LFP100N. It is 7 5/8 diameter and has
a 1 5/8 diameter thread. I know the thread on the spindle is 1 «.
The smaller plate has no markings and is 5 1/8 diameter and 1 «
diameter thread. So I imagine that the bigger thread on the bigger
plate automatically rules out that one but the smaller is the same
diameter. Guess I'll just have to keep an eye on ebay. But since I
am just starting out, the chucks will keep me occupied for a while. Pat (26203) |
