| Refinishing QCGB data plate
(Jun 7, 2002) |
SB reproduction info plates
(Jul 30, 2003) |
| Data Plate Rivets (Jun
14, 2002) |
Appropriate 9A info plates?
(Jul 31, 2003) |
| Brass Drive Screws (Nov
16, 2002) |
Model B change gear plate
(Nov 13, 2003) |
| New Plate on my Gearbox
(May 4, 2003) |
Brass Plate Refinishing
(Nov 17, 2004) |
| 9in model C index plate
(Jun 14, 2003) |
16" Thread Chart (Feb 6,
2005) |
| Gear Chart Plates (Jun
23, 2003) |
Wall gear chart (Mar 7,
2005) |
| |
| Refinishing QCGB data plate |
| Has anyone tried,
or had any luck, restoring a worn data plate on the QC gear box?
Mine is legible, but I'm wondering if there's a way to add
paint/colorant/whatever in the right spots to restore it to it's
original condition. Jeff
(4494) |
| I accidentally got some zip
strip paint remover on my data plate. I thought I was going to have
a blank plate, but to my surprise it took off all of the layers of
paint that had been slopped onto it over the years and left the red
and black original. It cleaned up the brass, too. I ended up
treating all of the plates with the same stuff. Glen (4495) |
| Data Plate Rivets |
| I need to remove
the data plate from the QC gear box on my 13" SB so I can restore
it. Has anyone done this before? I'd like to get some input before I
proceed on my own. At this point I'm considering either grinding off
the heads or drilling them out. It would be nice to preserve the
rivets, but I'm not sure if that's possible. Jeff
(4577) |
| Just a personal opinion but I restore
a lot of machines but I never remove a plate. Once you have do so
what is there to authenticate the machine? If you absolutely have to
do this then drill out the heads and remove the rivet body. Tap the
holes for button head cap screws of the smallest size you can. A
very small SS button head cap screw looks almost like a rivet. Of
course you could also put new pop rivets in. A tool to do it isn't
that expensive. But think about this before you do it. There is
enough mix and match equipment around without making another
ambiguity. A piece of masking tape is a whole lot easier.
Yasmiin (4578) |
| Most bolt shops
carry the drive screw type rivets like the originals. I buy them in
all different sizes and have used them to reattach name plates. If
you can't get to the back side to knock out the originals or if the
holes don't go all the way through, you can do as mentioned and
carefully drill off the heads. I usually grind a flat on the head
and center punch so I can drill dead center until the head pops off.
The remove the plate and drill the rest of the rivet out. Usually
the same size drive rivet will hold fine. If not you can go to the
next larger size. If you don't have a local bolt shop you can
probably order them from McMaster-Carr or other distributor. Skip
(4581) |
| Jeff, I have
removed and replaced these on several machines. On late manufacture
machines, the rivets were of just "pop" rivets. Earlier lathes used
rivets of the "drive" type. Pop rivets are easy to drill out and
replace. The drive rivets are solid and have a pronounced domed
head. They can be very hard and resist drilling. One of two methods
used to remove these is to gently tap the rivet sideways,
back-and-forth until they loosen some and then grip them with a good
set of pliers and pull them out (twisting them slightly
counter-clockwise as you pull). The other method is to take a Dremel
tool and grind a slot for a screw driver in the head but this
requires a steady hand and nerves. If you choose this method, I
would make a protective piece to cover the plate. A piece of heavy
shim stock with a hole just large enough to permit the rivet head to
pass through would work. Then grind the slot and use the screwdriver
and unscrew the rivet. I say "unscrew" because the shank of the
rivet has a right-hand spiral knurl that grips the base metal and
holds the rivet in. You can get replacement rivets from
McMaster-Carr Supply Co. Webb (4582) |
| Jeff; I'm
answering this before replying to your off list email - I'm not
ignoring you, I just had to do an emergency run to a data center
this week! In almost every case, the holes these screw style rivets
drive into are accessible from the rear of the part. I use an
automatic center punch to drift these out with darn near a 100
percent success rate. The toughest thing on old grungy parts is
finding the darn small hole that will be packed with old paint and
hardened grease/oil. Once you know they are there though, they
usually show up with a bit of looking. Put a hand over the face of
the plate while popping the rivets out, the ones that are slightly
loose like to spring across the shop, and they are hard to find once
they hit the floor! Stan
(4583) |
| Jeff, I've had
the same experience as Stan. In the few instances that I couldn't
find the back side of the rivet, I've been able to twist them out
from the front with a large hemostat. Flea markets yield many
interesting tools. Glen (4589) |
| So the
rivets have a knurled spiral shank? I assume they were designed to
be pounded in - I wonder why they'd bother with the spiral knurl?
Anyhow, I think I better understand what they are, and I guess I'll
first try to find the back of the hole they were inserted into. Yasmiin - I agree that the plates provide identity to the machine,
but my intention is to re-paint and clean up the original and then
put it back. Maybe I'll try turning some drive pins on my little
lathe. Jeff (4592) |
| I guess my biggest
concern is plates with things like serial numbers and specs. I do
some really old machines and if a plate has been tampered with I
become concerned that the machine is what the plate says it is.
These old machines (1880 to 1940 ) can be very hard to identify.
Many builders were using the same castings so you get a head stock
and then you try to identify it. It can be a real challenge. Of
course some of these manufacturers didn't put any identification at
all on their machines. I just got a bunch of stuff that was
supposedly one manufacturer and so far I have identified three and I
still have some mystery parts. Yasmiin (4596) |
| Brass Drive
Screws |
| Where can you get
brass drive screws to attach thread chart diagram and oiling chart
to side cover of SB lathe? (7307) |
| http://www.mcmaster.com/pdf/108/3093.pdf (7308) |
| Check Small Parts
http://www.smallparts.com and Reid Tools
http://www.reidtool.com
Fred (7309) |
| I do not like to
spend money on anything I can make. Since you have a lathe, find an
old piece of brass and presto, before you can write that check out
you can have them made! Tom (7337) |
| New Plate on my
Gearbox |
| I bought on ebay
one of the reproduction plates for on the Gearbox it looks great on
My SB9 A But what kind of casting is the gearbox made off ? I had to
drill 4 holes for the pins (the old ones are still in the casting
without head. With a normal HSS drills you cant bore a hole in it.
Finally I get the job done with a mill from a dentist at very low
speed. (10770) |
| The gearbox case is
cast iron. The front face of the casting has been sanded smooth by
the factory, so that should reduce the chance that you'll drill into
a hard spot. The casting should not be very difficult to drill. The
"pins" are typically #4 drive screws. Drive screws are very hard -
drilling them is not the easy way to remove them. The drive pins in
the gear box are driven into blind holes, so the best option is to
try to lift the head a little with a very sharp chisel (I used a #17
X-acto blade). When the head has moved up maybe .5mm, you can
usually grab the drive screw with locking pliers and twist it out
(drive screws have RH flutes). (10794) |
| 9in model C
index plate |
| I have an old model
c and I need a index plate for it. I am trying to cut 10 threads and
can't find any information on what gears to use. My gear bracket is
a straight one. Roy (11994) |
| When you say the
gear bracket is "a straight one" do you mean it has only one arm, as
opposed to two?. If so, this could be a model 405Y from about 1934.
The threading chart is different for that model. for a 10 pitch
thread it suggests the the lead screw gear is a 30 tooth gear with
no gear reductions or advantaged in between. The spindle is A 24
tooth. The lead screw is 8. 30/24*8 = 10. The later systems with
reversing gears would have a 32 tooth stud gear, with a 40 tooth
screw gear and an 80 tooth idler. 40/32*8 = 10 Jim B. (11999) |
| James, you
hit the nail right on the head, Now I need a 30 tooth gear. Do you
know where I could find one? Roy (12000) |
| Gear Chart
Plates |
| I just wanted to
remind everyone that Randy Phillips has the new Gear Chart Plates
available for the SB lathes, I purchased one a while back and I
cannot tell any difference from the originals, nice item for those
that are restoring Clint (12241) |
| How do we
get in touch with Randy to purchase one of these? Eric
(12245) |
| Here is a link
to an ebay listing he has, email him and let him know that you heard
about them on the SB group
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2540857517category=1272rd=1 Clint (12254) |
| SB reproduction
info plates |
| I see there is a
seller on Ebay, who sells South Bend reproduction lathe info plates.
He has a listing now, item # 2548434139. Anyone on the list every
buy one of these? Does this guy have a web site? W. Sharp
(13052) |
| W. Sharp That is
Randy Phillips's. Yes, I have bought some and they are very nice,
looks original. He is also a god dependable seller I do not know of
a web site for him but he will answer your emails to him. Clint
(13062) |
| I purchased and
just received the lube plate and the bearing adjustment plate for my
10L and they are GREAT! I don't think you could tell these from
factory originals. Dennis (13067) |
| William, I have
no experience with Randy's plates, but from what I hear they look
good. If you will search the archived Posts, Randy tells in detail
about how he had them made and how they differ, ever so slightly,
from the originals. I think his ID here is the same as on
Ebay(dt38k). (13069) |
| William, Well I decided it wasn't very mannerly of me to tell you
about the post but not put any effort into finding it for a fellow
South Bend owner, so I got my Lazy a$$ up and done a couple of
searches and what do you know, found it rather quickly. Go to post
#8697 and I think you will find very good narrative on these plates.
(13070) |
| I recently bought 2
plates from Randy. Quick service, Plates appear to be excellent
quality. As I can't read half the numbers on my original plates a
big improvement. I sent Randy an email in the ebay ask seller a
question with my email to make contact.(13075) |
| Appropriate 9A
info plates? |
| I am interested in
getting the appropriate info plates from Randy Phillip's, for my
South Bend 9" model A, 3' bed, with quick change gear box. I just
picked it up this past Monday, so I haven't had a chance to get the
correct year of production info etc. on it, from the serial #.
Anyone know what are the appropriate info plate/s for this model
lathe? I guess that I would just ask for plates for the model 9A?
W. Sharp (13076) |
| W. Sharp yes, the
QC plate would be the same for the 9" Model A Clint (13085) |
| Model B change
gear plate |
| Anyone know of a
source for a GOOD CLEAR photograph of a model B change gear plate?
Most photo reproductions in manuals are not very clear. Randy
(14957) |
| There is a nice
clear picture in the how to run a lathe book. 56th edition, page 73.
dennis (14958) |
| Chuck I believe
that the model B plate is the same as the Model C Clint (14959) |
| My model B is 1942
vintage and the plate is really hard to read. I have a copy of the
page from the book and that's what I use to set up the gears on the
machine. RC (14961) |
| I have one plate that is in very good condition, for
making a copy. I am not sure which it is, Clint Driggars could be
right, about the B and C charts being the same. It reads at the top,
9" workshop south bend lathe There are 4 gear threads per inch
columns on the left and 4 pictures of the different gear selections
to the stud gear on the right. It goes from 4-480 threads per inch.
The last left column starts with 160, some plates, I understand,
only showed that number though, but mine shows all 5 from 160 to
480. Is this the right one? If I could get 20 solid requests for
this plate, I would have this re-produced. It would take about 4-5
weeks. The cost would be 35 dollars each plus 3.50 for insured
freight. Just let me know at peep38k(at)mchsi(dot)com and if I get
20 orders, I will email each person to let them know they are being
made and an approximate time that they would be ready. Randy
(14962) |
| I bought two plates
from Randy. (model A quick change gear box and the Lube plate for
the same lathe). The reproduction is of excellent quality. Very nice
for those re-building a lathe. Guy (14965) |
| B and C ARE NOT THE
SAME! B has cross feed, C does not. They use SIMILAR change gear
setups for threads. C plate will not tell you cross feeds. 80T
configurations are not the same for B and C. look in a HTRAL book
folks. dennis (14966) |
| Dennis, since you
seem to be the only one so far that knows the difference in these
two charts, can you tell by my description, which one it is that I
have? I would guess that most of us know that a C does not have
cross feed and that the A and B models do. You might explain to the
group how these two charts differ from one another. I think we are
all willing to learn something new. Randy (14967) |
| Randy/Chuck I have
a model B lathe and the change gear setup used is the same as the
Model C. Clint (14968) |
| My edition 56 and
50 ( I have collected 4 different editions ) of How to Run a lathe
has both the c and b plates. They are different because they show
the cross feed and long feed based on using the apron not the half
nuts. In addition the gear set for a b is slightly different than a
c as the b can get the finer feeds using the apron and the c must
use the change gears. I can easily scan them in, just let me know if
you want a copy or where to upload them. (14969) |
| Steve I reckon you
are correct about the feed part, but as far as threading they are
the same I would like to see a plate that shows the gearing for the
feeds I never thought about that part of it. Clint (14971) |
| I
finally found a "reasonable" reproduction of a Model B Chart for
Threads and Feeds on the Web Site
www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/page6.html . This chart ends at
160 TPI. I doubt that it would be suitable for reproducing good
plates. In another OLD catalog, I found the Model B and C charts
side-by-side. They are different as some of the group have noted. In
particular, the Figures for gear set-up are different in Figure 4.
This is probably due to the feeds issue between the powered apron
and the C Model which has to use the clasp nuts. Randy, if anyone
comes up with a good Model B chart, I would pay for one of your
plates. Chuck (14972) |
| If anyone would
like a scan of both the b and c plates let me know. As an aside the
54x8 compound gear is specific to a model C. (14973) |
| Randy I would want
one also. Clint (14979) |
| Steve Thanks for
the scans, and as Steve had previously stated, there is a difference
in the plates, the difference being at the larger tpi ranges for the
power feeds Now, I need a model B plate! Clint (14980) |
| Just let me know at
peep38k(at)mchsi(dot)com and if I get 20 orders U did good. DK
(14981) |
| OK I hope that
there are at least 18 more of us that can use the Model B plates?
Clint (14982) |
| Great idea! Why not
let's start a folder, where photos/scans of the various gear change
plates can be placed. There seem to be several. Then we could all
refer to it for info. An accurate caption would be vital, to
describe which models they are from. We could put them in the
Yahoogroups southbendlathe photos section, or maybe in
SouthBendLathePix (also in Yahoogroups). Jordan (14983) |
| Jordon I just
looked in the SB group photos and there are already several pics of
plates, but they are done individually, I did not see one for the
model B Maybe we should make a folder for them but it would have to
be done in the SB pix group because of space left I will go make the
folder, but it would be up to others to post the scans that have
them Clint (14984) |
| OK, I have created
the Album for "gear oil plates for all SB lathes" in the SB pix
group So anyone with pix/scans of the gear oil plates for any SB
lathes, please post them Clint (14985) |
| Thanks
to Steve Obert, I now have good scans of an B and C gear chart. His
C chart is different than mine in the layout, his says 9" model C
lathe, where mine reads 9" workshop south bend lathe in red, but the
numbers are the same except in the last column where mine shows 5,
from 160 to 480 and his shows one at 160. Here is what I need from
the group. Since south bend made different ones, we need to decide
if Steve's scan's will work for everyone. I also need to know if the
plates you guys want are all one color, or are they a two tone with
some red at the top and all black where the numbers and diagrams
are. Mine has red on the top and bottom boarders and his scans only
have a boarder at the top. I have forwarded these scans to my
nameplate factory with the measurements from my model C plate for
width, height and hole centers. I gave them 3-3/8" wide with hole
centers at 3-3/16", and 6-1/2" tall with 6-5/16" hole centers. If
someone has something different, I need to know this soon. Once we
agree on the plate, which will be brass and confirm the dimensions
and style of design, I can get this ball rolling. I presently have 3
requests for the C model and 4 for the B model. I'll do whatever I
can to help out but you guys have the final decision on what you
want. I don't have either of this style, except for some parts, so I
don't need these but will do my best to get this done. Most
everything I have are A models. The ball is now in your court.
Randy (14988) |
| Steve, I would like
a scan of the "C" plate. Bob (14989) |
| Randy I think I
would say to go with the design that yours show, also I think using
the workshop would be more helpful, since it shows more info Others
opinion? Clint (14990) |
| Randy, The plate
and hole dimensions you state in this message conform to the holes
in my gear cover. Hope you can make these. Chuck (14993) |
| Clint I'm thinking
the same thing. Instead of having a B and C chart, could south bend
have went to this 9" workshop plate, like the one I have? It would
seem that the most important part is having all the numbers for the
threads per inch and the mating gear combinations. With this, the 9"
workshop plate I have should serve for both models in one. What
purpose is served having all the numbers for the revolution of the
spindle? Is this really necessary? I'm not that smart to have that
answer. If you compare the two scans that Steve has shown, the
threads per inch numbers match right across the board with each
other and my plate. My chart goes farther to show the 160,192, 240,
320, and the 480, in the last column which the other two do not.
This seems like these would be very practical to have. Does anyone
have a picture of this plate that can be scanned and shared with the
group? In the B chart scan from Steve, it shows two columns with
several numbers on the right side of the left columns for cross
feeds and long feeds, 6 in fig. 2, 19 in fig. 3, and 1 in fig. 4. In
the C chart in the same area, it reads feeds per REV. only and there
are 9 in fig. 3 and 5 in fig. 4. I'm going to call the nameplate
factory and tell them to put this on hold until we can all agree on
whether this plate can satisfy everyone. Let's all get together and
try to get on the same page. Randy(15001) |
| Randy Where the C
plate is showing the feed speeds, that is feed speed using the
leadscrew, one the B plate, it is speeds for using the power feed
gearing, so there is a difference in the feed charts As long as a
chart shows the power feed gearing speeds with the thread cutting
gearing, that would be needed for the B plates, for the C plates,
the leadscrew feed along with the thread cutting gearing would be
necessary I had never thought of the power feed charts being on the
threading plates till Steve and someone else brought it up, all this
time, I had assumed the C and B plates would have been the same So,
If the plate you are speaking of with the extra gearing/feed tables
shown is for power feed gearing, that would be great, if it is just
for leadscrew feed, then it would nor be original for the b model
Help! someone else jump in on this subject? Steve? Clint (15002) |
| Clint I just down
loaded a picture of my plate in the photo section If I'm
understanding you right, my plate must be from a C model then, since
these numbers match Steve's scan. Now here's one for you. In the
left column of his scan in fig. 4, the feed numbers are .0063,
.0052, .0042, .0031, and .0021. On my plate, they are .0062, .0052,
.0041, .0031, and .0021. What's up with that? Does this also mean
that the B model cannot cut threads per inch past 160, and the C
model can? All I can say is welcome to the south bend guessing game.
Just another one of the amazing mysteries of these combinations of
machines. Randy (15003) |
| Clint In case this
might help, the catalog number stamped on this plate is 415-ZA I
notice Steve's scans have no place to stamp a number or the bed
length. Is your plate one color on brass, or is it similar to mine
in two colors? Randy (15004) |
| The ball is now in
your court. Randy (15005) |
| Randy I
think it is for the power feed? Shoot, you have me on that one
because with the B model, threading is exactly like with the C, just
the power feeds are added because the power feed is thru a different
gear setup, so it is showing us if we have our gear train set to cut
a certain TPI, it shows what the power feed speed is, or it could
mean that by using the power feed with a certain gear set up for
threading, we actually get more options for threading? the added
gears in the saddle using power feed adds a little more fine
threading??? I am no expert at all on the model B, as I have just
completed my conversion to a model B, originally, I had a C and an
A, now I have a B and A I know one thing, on the highest type
setting on the B and using the power feed, it is one slow muther! I
can go have supper during a 2" long turning session! Much slower
movement than I get on the A highest tpi setting I really love
running the B model for turning Hopefully, some others can jump in
on this topic and we can get things settled to what we need It is
getting to sound like both plates are needed between the C and B
models? I would think they would pretty much look the same with the
additional speeds added Clint (15006) |
| Randy I do not have
a B plate, but my C plates are two color, I think that is the way
I remember them, remember, I no longer run the C but have several C
and A gear covers. Clint (15007) |
| The ball is now in
your court. Thanks for your input, Randy (15008) |
| The actual plate on
my model C is different from the scans it is labeled "screw threads
and power feeds English lead screw 8 threads per inch" it also has
the catalog # bed length and "Chart no. 7" on it. It is 2 color red
and black on a brass plate. It stops at 160 threads per inch but
lists feeds to .0021. The lathe was made in 1953 and is all original
as far as I know, I have had it for over 30 years. The model B did
not come with the 54 x 18 compound gear. The power feed on the apron
will give the finer feeds that the 54 x18 gives on the C. That being
said adding a 54 x 18 to a B will let you do REALLY fine feed rates.
Perhaps if the year of the lathe was noted on the scans of the
plates we would be able to see some pattern or evolution. It would
be interesting anyway. (15015) |
| Just
wondering, after the weekend, where we stand on having the plates
made for a model B. Earlier last week it looked like Randy was
moving forward on this, however there was some question of Model B
VS Workshop Model B. Arn't they the same except for the title? Chuck
(15036) |
| Brass Plate
Refinishing |
| Does anyone know of
a method of refinishing the brass nameplates? Mine completely lost
all their paint in the cleaning process. I've tried painting one and
then gently sanding on 400 grit to remove the paint from the high
spots but the plate is not flat enough to get a nice job and I'm
afraid that if I get too aggressive I'll lose the raised lettering.
Anybody got any experience or ideas? Ed in Florida (22036) |
| I did a plate on a
tractor by putting 3 layers of cloth over a piece of soft wood and
wiping the raised letters just after painting. You may have to do
some touchup with a small model brush and/or toothpicks. If you need
a new nameplate check with Randy. Search back through the archives
or look for him on Ebay. JP (22037) |
| 16" Thread
Chart |
| Does
anyone out there knows a reasonable source for a Thread Chart Plate
for a SB16 with Double tumbler gearbox. If no one has any ideas, can
someone shoot me a good digital photo of theirs? I'm tired of
guessing what pitch I'm in. Jim
(24913) |
| Try Ebay
Seller DT38K. Randy is his name. He has several reproduction
plates for sale on Ebay regularly and although I have not purchased
one from him they look real good. I also think he is an active
member of this group but due to work schedule he posts quite
infrequently. I have purchased a complete 13" Taper Attachment from
him privately and his service was excellent. Ron (24914) |
| Wall gear
chart |
| Thanks to
davethegundoctor I have added a metric transposing chart to my CAD
drawn wall chart. The chart had the double lever quick change chart
in large lettering to make it easy to find the settings you need to
cut any of 48 different threads per inch. The numbers came from a
Southbend 9" model A but I believe they are the same as any double
lever quick change chart that does not have 27 TPI on it. Each
18"X24" sheet has a Large quick change chart to hang on the wall
behind the lathe, a small quick change chart for the office, and a
large Metric Transposing Gear Chart for the wall. The price is $10.
for one printed on velum or $20. for one printed on Mylar, and I
will pay for shipping. If interested, E-mail me at
garyphansen@juno.com Gary
(25805) |
| I got my chart from
Gary yesterday. It is just great. I made a little suggest which was
to put his name on it. I think you guys will like these. Maybe down
the road he could do charts for other South Bend lathes that you
have. You sure can see these. David (25855) |
