Lathe - Headstock



Headstock configuration/speed range (Dec 19, 2000 ) Headstock bearings (Sep 13, 2003)
Headstock spindle (Oct 16, 2001) Checking the Headstock? (Oct 23, 2003)
What are these holes for? (Jun 2, 2001) Headstock shims (Oct 25, 2003)
Modifying 9" Bench Lathe to Accept 10" Heavy (Feb 10, 2002) SB 10K var spd slowing down & bushing area warm/hot (Nov 2, 2003)
Torque value for 1918 13" SB headstock (May 18, 2002) SB 9 headstock taper size question (Nov 29, 2003)
Adjusting 9A Headstock Bearings (Jun 11, 2002) Heavy 10 Headstock Bearing Adjustment (Dec 5, 2003)
Head stock Bearings Seized! (Jun 22, 2002) Hvy 10 headstock question (Dec 30, 2003)
Should I beheadstock my lathe? (Jul 22, 2002) Headstock Bearing Question (Jan 10, 2004)
Headstock center (Aug 20, 2002) 13" headstock bearing worn (Jan 29, 2004)
Headstock centers for a 10L (Sep 5, 2002) Installing bushings (Jul 2, 2004)
10L headstock adapters (Sep 17, 2002) Cone pulley section getting warm? (Jul 18, 2004)
9" head stock (Oct 6, 2002) 13" Southbend Headstocks (Sep 21, 2004)
Extra headstock hole? (Nov 8, 2002) 9" Headstock rebuilding? (Nov 7, 2004)
Headstock gearing for Heavy 10 (Dec 3, 2002) Headstock (Dec 17, 2004)
Headstock setup (Jan 29, 2003) South Bend Small Bore Heavy 10"? (Dec 19, 2004)
Headstock spindle bearing clearance 1928 9" (Jun 16, 2003) Shim stock? (Jan 30, 2005)
Headstock parts - I'm confused (Jul 9, 2003) Bore size of a 14 or 14 1/2? (Feb 16, 2005)
Headstock configuration/speed range
Does anybody have a 9" SB with a similar configuration? My 1941(?) "Precision Model A" headstock has Timken roller bearings and no back gear (as seen from the attached photo). Nothing hangs off of the two ears on the headstock casting. With the headstock 3-step cone-pulley along with another 4-step jack-shaft on the floor-mount pedestal I get 12 speeds. The jack-shaft and motor were cobbled together from pillow blocks and a non-reversing repulsion motor. I'd like to re-engineer the power train starting with a TEFC 1 HP induction motor and possibly add a two-step pulley setup off the motor shaft in order to get the equivalent of a back-gear. Spindle speeds? I'd like to end up with 25-2100 RPM. I would imagine the roller bearings could handle the high speed safely. Flat belt? has anybody purchased a belt and cement from SBL? Others? Cost? Is it worth machining v-belt pulleys and getting rid of all that flat belt stuff? I read/heard that flat belt slip is a good safety factor if you should crash your cutter into the chuck (or whatever). Paul R. (10)
I put one of those on my machine in 1977 when the leather belt went south. As I remember the cost then was about $50, I do not know what it would cost now. That belt is still working fine with no problems except the safety slip today. Sure saves the machine on crashes. For another option I would use the same belts from McMaster-Carr that I am using on the Burke mill, but you will have to take the head apart to fit it. (11)
Never heard of a factory South Bend with anything but bronze bearings and a back gear. I think they did away with the bronze bearings in the last 20 years. (12)
Yea, that's got me kind of confused. Timken roller bearings are cool, but where did they come from? Could I have a non-original headstock? When I receive what is supposed to be the manual for this lathe I might learn something. I'm thinking, though, that the parts diagram I got from James Early might be all I get, and that DOES NOT show my HS configuration. Strange but wonderful. I also have yet to see any mention of "Precision" in the lathe title e.g. mine is "South Bend Precision Lathe Model A" without "Workshop" as some of the lower-end ones were. Also, since my serial number (101025) is in the range of: "The earliest records show that lathes were numbered sequentially, beginning with 700, in July, 1910, and ending with 186,514 March, 1947" -- (from SBL web site) SBL must be correct in saying that my lathe was first shipped in January of 1941. Paul R. (13)
Paul, I checked with a local electrical supplier and there are a number of nice little AC frequency drive which will give you a variable speed control with any 110/220V AC motor. It will also give you reversing capabilities and they are about $200- 300 dollars. You can do away with all those counter shafts and just still with one speed. Here is a list of some of the Brand name drives. Allen (14)
Interesting idea, and I was considering using a 3-phase motor and vari-drive I could get for under $100. The problems are torque and price. At lower spindle speeds I'm not convinced that there will be enough torque to machine large workpieces using a vari-drive. Gear reductions should provide more torque than the flat belt can transmit w/o slip. BTW, who is using flat belts (leather or other) on their lathe? James Early recommended (I believe) High-Speed Rubber Belts from McMaster-Carr, page 827 for $0.26/inch pre-made. Any thoughts from anybody about that? I called SBL and they want over $100.00 for a 3/4" x 53" belt and cement kit. Yikes! Paul R. (15)
I have been told that using a AC Drive, you will not loose any torque at the high or low end of the scale. I will get some detailed information on this and post it after Christmas. Jim (16)
Headstock spindle
I need to flush the bearings in the head stock. do you have to remove the head stock spindle to do this? if so how do you remove the spindle I tried to but I did not want to force it. (1879)
South Bend calls them "bronze boxes". That particular part I haven't tried to order yet, but I've been told there is no part you can't still get. Failing that, anyone with a serviceable lathe ought to be able to make new bronzes...but I'll be surprised if that part isn't still available from South Bend. The hard part would probably be line-reaming to size after installation. Unless the journals are out-of-round, out of true [off-center], or badly scored, I myself would try to stick with working in bronze if at all possible...truing those journals may require the services of a crankshaft grinder would be where I'd start looking. Lurch (1921)
I've been following this thread and have a few questions. When you speak of the headstock bearing journals I'm assuming you are referring to the line bored head stock casting and the bearing caps themselves? If so, what would cause the journals to go out of alignment in the first place? Chris (1923)
The headstock casting holds the 'bronze boxes' [SB parlance for split bushings]; 'journal' refers to the ground-and-micro-polished bearing surface on the spindle itself. I'm questioning whether replacing the bronze split bushings in the headstock casting would require line-boring and/or re-shimming them after installation...maybe not, maybe South Bend holds their tolerances tight enough it's a bolt-in job. If the spindle itself requires rework, that's a horse of another color. From the original post, it **sounds** like he has a scored journal on the spindle and the attendant bushing damage on the headstock. Why else would anyone be asking about how to rework a journal? (1932)
What are these holes for?
I have a 1935 9 inch model c. I am wondering what the hole in the headstock below where the back gear rocker shaft is for. There are three holes , one is for the spindle, the other is for the back gear, and there is one hole about 3/8-1/2 dia sorta in between for the other two. there is another hole on the carriage about 1/2 inch past the degree markings on the compound and the the right about an inch. Looks about 3/8 inch and 3/8 deep. Gerald (767)
I'm not completely sure of which holes you are referring to, but I think I know which ones you mean. If I follow you, you are referring to the hole that is in the headstock in the the rear casting web that projects towards the back to form the support for the backgear and its shaft and eccentric handle. This is the hole that is drilled and tapped straight down from the top directly between the rear spindle bearing and the rear backgear eccentric. If I have identified the same hole you are asking about, this hole is for a stud for mounting a bracket for the quick change collet attachment. Now, for the other hole. If I follow you correctly, this hole is in the cross slide and is drilled and tapped straight down from the flat ground surface behind the compound swivel. This hole is for mounting the optional milling attachment. A picture of the holes in question would help me in identifying then. But I think I got it right. Webb (781)
Webb, but I don't think either of these holes is taped. That does explain the hole on the carriage but the one in the headstock is a horizontal hole like the eccentric for the back gear and the spindle hole. It is sorta in between both of them. Gerald (782)
Webb. I was curious about the tapped hole for the collet closer. I'm going to use it to mount a simple spindle indexer someday. Anybody using the extra hole on the tail stock casing near the nose and lock (originally for center grease) for anything? I've seen an example of using it to hold a small swivel-tray like at the Dentist for holding your calipers, etc. Paul R. (784)
Paul, Since my HS days I always remember the white lead grease we had in the the small hole in the tailstock. Stuff is probably outlawed now, but have not ck'd. I am using regular lithium white grease with a little light oil to dab on the center. Someday I may get a live center, but never had that luxury in HS, so trying to stick to what this old guy remembers. big tom (786)
Modifying 9" Bench Lathe to Accept 10" Heavy
I was reading on the Lathes.uk site about certain 9" lathes being modified for a Heavy 10 headstock to gain the advantage of the "huge" 1 3/8" spindle bore. After some thought, I decided this might just be the perfect set-up for me. I'd like a bench mounted lathe, don't need a great amount of power, but I think I will need the larger spindle bore. A real 9" Toolroom. Would this modification really be worth the time, trouble and expense to gain .625" capacity. Has anyone performed this modification or any modification which would result in a larger spindle bore for a 9". (3169)
I would imagine the supply of heavy 10 headstocks is limited, but I keep thinking it would be nifty if there was a kit available to build a native-5c spindle for the SB9 with ball bearings to permit high speed operation with carbide tooling. I'd be tempted to suggest eliminating the countershaft too, taking advantage of cheap modern inverter drives. Problem is, every time I start down this thought path I end up replacing more and more, until all I'm mentally keeping is the bed, and then I realize it would be good to replace that too. Chris (3172)
When I got my 1941 9" model A, it had a headstock with Timken roller bearings for the spindle (same 1-1/2, 8 TPI nose). I thought that was really cool until I found out that since it did not have the counter shaft and its associated back-gears, I had a lot of belt slippage when trying to turn heavy stuff really slow. It might be okay if I installed timing or V-belts on the spindle. I bought a regular 9" headstock so I have the use of back-gears. I have since installed a 1-HP VFD setup on the lathe (love it!) and might explore the timing or V-belt option someday. Depending upon available bearing space, I might even be able to open it up to a larger spindle. I've attached a picture of the rear view of my roller bearing headstock. Paul R. (3173)
I wasn't able to find the description on the lathes.uk site, nor have I seen this done. I think it sounds like an interesting idea and project. Some of the details I would consider are: -How would the underneath of the 10" headstock have to be changed to fit onto a 9" bed? (I think the spacing of the v-ways is different) -Increasing the height of the tailstock, steady rest, follow rest, to correspond with a higher spindle axis. That is, unless you were to grind off the bottom 1/2-inch of the 10" headstock... -Details of interfacing the headstock gears to the leadscrew/gearbox assembly. Some modification would be necessary. I have seen Heavy 10's parted out on eBay because of worn beds, so I think that the 10" headstocks would be available. Likewise, I believe there are many old "workshop" 9-inch lathes that have unworn beds because they were never used in heavy production. So, your idea sounds promising. Jon (3174)
Would it be possible or simpler to bore out the bearing journals to fit the Heavy Ten Spindle in the 9's headstock? I don't know what the journal diameter are on the Heavy 10's. Just a thought. Tom (3177)
If you flip the heavy 10 headstock over, indicate it level, and mill off enough material to make it flat, [that is get rid of the v-way grooves], how close would it be to just the right height to fit on a 9-inch bed after the new grooves are cut? pretty darn close I bet. (3178)
Torque value for 1918 13" SB headstock
I just found out from LeBlond that my 13" SouthBend was made in 1918 and no parts are available for it! I have decided to make an extra spindle and bearings for it. The bearings are split at the same point that the headstock bearing caps come off. I was wondering if anyone out there knows where I can find a manual for a machine this old and would this information be included in it? JKM (4249)
I have a 1929 SB13, finding info isn't exactly easy! The South Bend booklet "Keep Your Lathe In Trim", AKA bulletin H-4, covers bearing adjustment for split bearing headstocks. The target is 1 to 2 thou clearance for these bearings. After doing the work on mine, I verified the clearance with Plastigage (auto parts store have it, if they look at you slack jawed, they aren't a good parts store!), oiled, and ran the lathe a mid speed while feeling the caps to verify they didn't get hot. Using a bar in the spindle, indicate the movement as close to the bearings as you can when lifting up and pressing down with around 100 lbs of force. The bar should be sized to give you about a foot of lever to pull and press on. End play is in the 1 to 2 thou range also, it is adjusted via the threaded split collar on the outboard end of the spindle. If you don't have the special SB taper tooling, might I suggest you make the new spindle to some standard taper? Perhaps even forgo a MT, although a short MT4 is close, and make the spindle to take collets? R8 would give a pretty good range and good fit within the spindle dimensions, the stock through hole is 1 inch, so R8 is right in the ballpark (.996 I think.) I'm guessing you also have the fun little 1 7/8-8 spindle nose? I've considered making a new spindle with a 2 1/4-8 nose that will take R8 direct in the spindle a few times. Might just do it one day! Stan (4252)
Adjusting 9A Headstock Bearings
Is there a way to adjust the bearings on the 9A headstock? How is that done. Can bearings be replaced if worn? Marv (4550)
This topic comes up from time to time. Check in the archives. I posted information on this a long time ago. If you go the message number 843, you will find a couple of downloads with the basics on spindle bearing checking and adjustment I posted back then. I hope they will answer your questions. If not, do a search on "spindle adjustment" or "spindle bearings" and you should get a lot of threads to check. As to replacing the bearings: that depends on whether you lathe's spindle bearings are bronze (replaceable) or cast iron (not replaceable). Webb (4552)
Well, I have tried SB's WEB site, but I can find nothing on adjustment of the headstock bearings. At least there is no clear path to such information. Any one have any direct links? (4558)
Head stock Bearings Seized!
Well, to add insult to injury, the bearings on the head stock seized to the main shaft today. I had been topping up the oil cups and they did seem to require periodic filling, but the bugger had a grand mal anyway. If I unscrew the two bolts on the top of the head stock so they are loose it will turn, but it is stiff and requires some effort. Marv (4718)
Sounds like it is time to take it out back and shoot it in the head (stock) with a .45 Mike (4728)
Actually a .5625 (9/16) box wrench is the weapon of choice. Loosen it up to .001-.0015 clearance. The procedure is in the files or database of this group. It needs room for the oil. RC (4729)
Should I beheadstock my lathe?
The heavy part of my 13" machine is down to the bed, the headstock (still attached), the legs, chip pan and the motor. Life would be much easier if I took the headstock off to finish cleaning it and then paint it - but I'm worried - will I screw up the alignment when I put it back on? Should I or should I not remove the headstock from the bed? Jeff (5296)
Jeff; The headstock aligns on the vees, I've certainly never had any problem putting one back on the same way it came off. If this is an old lathe, just watch out for any shims. There should not be any, but you never know who compensated for wear. You're more likely to run into this old units with the split bronze spindle bearings, sometimes a person who didn't know about the shimming of these to align the spindle would try to get things in line via shim stock. Stan (5297)
Headstock center
The pieces conspicuously missing from my 9in Model A when it arrived was a center for the head stock. The spec on the South Bend site says it is MT2 but the hole is obviously bigger than the tail stock which is also supposed to be MT2. Dead centers are not expensive, but I don't want to buy one that does not fit. Can anybody clue me in? Flash (5896)
Flash; Pretty good bet that it's a MT3. I've noticed several places where the spec sheet calls out MT2 for the head and tailstock tapers, no idea why. Every 9 incher I've seen is MT3, certainly mine is. Stan (5897)
No. 3 Morse Taper. I just bought one for $7 new from RTS machinery on eBay. James (5898)
The head stock spindle is a # 3 and the tail stock is # 2. Clint (5901)
The original setup includes a #2 morse taper center and a sleeve that adapts it to the #3 morse taper in the spindle. By using this scheme they put the lathe dog closer to the faceplate. Many machines that have changed hands are missing the sleeve. Look through the "stuff" that was with your lathe, it may be there. A good fresh drill shank adapter will do the job, if you cant find the original. RC (5903)
Headstock centers for a 10L
What kind of adaptor do I need to mount a center in the head stock of my 10L? My lath came with a collet closer installed. I removed that and figured out that the spindle diameter and thread is 2.25, 8 tpi. I got a small drive plate with the lath which screws on, but so far I haven't seen an adaptor or a center that will fill that big hole in the spindle. Also what taper number is the tail quill? (6211)
You need a proprietary SB part, or it's equivalent. The spindle hole is about the size of a Morse #4 1/2 or Morse #5 taper, but the taper per inch matches that of a Morse #3. The part you need is an adapter from this proprietary taper to a standard taper, either Morse #2 or #3. You can wait for one to come up on Ebay (which they do from time to time), call one of the suppliers who resell old lathe stuff like Dave Sobel or Dave Fiken, or I believe I remember that Scott Logan (yes, that Logan) mentioned that Royal makes something which fits. You can find Scott at www.loganact.com or www.lathe.com  Since the adapter is unique, I wouldn't expect it to be cheap from any of the above. Assuming your collet closer is the factory part, it's outside taper is this same proprietary taper. The tailstock taper is a standard Morse #2. Actually, if you have the collet adapter, you may be able to buy a 5C center (which should be cheaper, as a standard part) and use that when you need a headstock center. Frank (6232)
This is what I did: I bought a "Morse taper sleeve," in size MT2-MT5, from Enco for $10.99. The model number is 214-8025, available from www.use-enco.com I stuck this in the spindle, and it fit snugly, but with several inches of unwanted overhang. There has been some discussion about the actual internal taper of the 10L spindle, and what the dimensions are. You can check the archives of this site. My 10L was made in 1944, and its spindle has the same angle as a MT5 taper. If you are concerned about whether a MT5 item will fit properly into your spindle, then check the measurements on your own machine. For the protruding portion of the sleeve, I adjusted the taper attachment and turned down the sleeve so that would maintain the same angle, reducing the diameter just enough so that it would eventually be able to fit close to the tip of the spindle. If you don't have a taper attachment, you can use the compound slide, since you only need about 2 inches of travel for this operation. Check the angle with a dial indicator attached to the toolpost, set at exact center height. Then I removed the workpiece and turned it around so that I could turn down the portion of the sleeve that had been previously inserted into the spindle. I think I jammed something like an old drill bit into the MT2 portion of the sleeve, chucked the drill bit into the lathe, and used a tailstock center for support of the other end of the workpiece. After I turned the inside part down enough, the piece was finished. Now I can put the piece in the headstock, and insert the same MT2 dead center that I use in the tailstock. I hope that this makes sense and that it is helpful. Jon (6235)
Did I hear my name? Actually, it is we who make an adapter, not Royal (Royal makes the collet adapter). If you (or another newbie) is interested, give me a call on Monday. Scott Logan (6237)
I guess I expected a simpler answer. You gave me some good options to think about. If I choose the 5C collet center, would I need the adapter for anything else? David (6241)
10L headstock adapters
A spindle adapter has just come up on ebay that may be just what I'm looking for. (See original post on 9/6/02)Can anyone tell me if this is the adapter for the threaded spindle or the other style? The item number is 1768291466, and is listed under lathe + south bend. they give the part number as CL 205L. Also if anyone has a tumbler assembly for a single tumbler 10L gearbox for sale, I would be interested in hearing from you. Mine was broken and brazed, so I would like to replace it. Might be interested in the whole gearbox. David (6380)
Dave, I always mix them up do you have the Light or Heavy 10" ? I have a spare tumble reverser for my Heavy 10". Dave(6381)
The parts book says this is correct for a 10L with 1-1/16" collet capacity to convert either a threaded or long taper spindle to 2MT. A different part number is given for the cam lock spindle. Anthony (6382)
Anthony, that's what I needed to know. A question to the group. How often do you turn between centers as opposed to collets or 3 or 4 jaw chucks? I know this varies with the type of work a guy does, but I would appreciate your thoughts. David (6386)
My lathe is the older style with a single lever at the bottom of the box. Dave D (6387)
9" head stock
I am putting my 9 together for the first time from parts and pieces. the head stock has no shims under it and the tail stock is low. Mike (6575)
Mine was like that, I put a shim between the two tailstock castings (it took 15 thou to get it level with the headstock). (6585)
Extra headstock hole?
On some 10K headstocks there is an extra hole, keyhole-shaped, bottom center in the front, with what looks like a clearance in the casting for either some sort of control shaft to pass through...or perhaps it's a gutter for oil draining off the headstock bearings? My 9 don't have it. What is it? (7080)
OK, it's for the belt-tensioner shaft. Can someone describe how that works? My old 9 has the linkage off to the side and up above. (7081)
I'm not sure, but I think some 10ks had a belt tension-release lever going thru that hole. Frank (7082)
Yep, that's what it is, is a belt-tensioning shaft...but my parts book doesn't shed any light on what is behind the headstock and whether the countershaft casting is different. (7085)
Frank is correct. Some 10K's (as does mine) have a Key shaped hole in the front of the headstock casting. I did look on E-Bay as there was a headstock with bearings for this. There is a long rod with a large knob at its end. On that end there is the large diameter and a short length of a smaller diameter. You push the rod back and slip the smaller diameter down into the slot. This creates the belt tension. The tension is adjustable by turning the rod (threads at the other end). Some 10Ks had something like the 9's, but the rod had a knuckle in the linkage to disconnect the tension. Look at e-bay item 1784083641. It has this linkage. Tom (7086)
Lurch, The counter shaft for these 10Ks is a bit different. Look again at the E-bay item. The upper or leg is curved a bit. The motor sits behind that casting on a plate that swivels for adjustment. Guess who needs that plate and has a bid on that item. Tom (7087)
The what's the long lever in the picture for? Or is the eBay item different from what you're describing in the first half of your post here? I bought that headstock by the way, which is why I'm asking these questions. (7088)
I guess what I am asking is on the system that comes through the headstock, how does the far end of the stepped rod tie into the motor mount plate? Could I duplicate this function just by making the stepped rod and turning my countershaft support around so a bearing surface faces the headstock? I need to get over to the place selling that motor support plate to look at this [it's local to me]. I ain't gonna snipe you on the motor plate, no sweat. (7089)
Lurch, There is a clevis on the other end towards the motor plate. Remember that the motor sits in back instead of in front on the 9's. The one on E-bay isn't like this. I think it attaches to the headstock where the 9 does. I know there was a manual from the army online that showed this. It didn't show the one through the headstock. Still look at it and will see that the upright leg is 'C' shaped to some extent. If you want send me your address and I'll rough sketch it for you. Tom (7090)
Lurch, http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/page7.html Go to this website. Its Tony's UK lathe page. It shows the knob at the front. If you look at the bottom picture real close you will see the clevis. If this don't help, I'll take some pics of mine. Tom(7091)
Looks like the clevis just ties into an ear-with-a-hole on the plate. Shouldn't be hard to rig something up that will work with mine then perhaps a piece of stock under the motor mount bolts with a bend at the end and a hole? Oh yeah--there's a hole in the headstock about 5/16 or 3/8 dia, drilled from the top, right behind the small spindle bearing--doesn't show in Tony's site--looks to have been spot-faced--what goes there that a 9 doesn't have? (7092)
Lurch, Do you still have the e-bay item number? Maybe I can see what you are talking about. I thought the lever collet closer fit both 9 and10Ks. Tom (7094)
Lurch, You and Superman have better eyes than mine. You could surmise that the lathe on Tony's UK page doesn't have this hole, but there is a cover over the spindle on the 10Ks. I had to go back home and look at both of my lathes. The 10K only has pip marks in that area. The one headstock belonging to my 9 C I suspect had the lever closer at one point. There was a bracket included with it. It does have the hole in that location. I screwed in a brass stud that was in the parts box and slide the bracket over it. I did loose the bid on the drive unit, bummer. I did win a bid on a bull gear though. Tom (7127)
Headstock gearing for Heavy 10
I powered up my new (old) 1954 heavy 10 lathe tonight. I immediately began to play with the QC gearbox. I found out that with the gear arrangement between the spindle and the gearbox input, I cannot get the correct threads. The QC chart says the spindle gear should be the 40 tooth gear. It doesn't say what the idler should be or the gear that feeds the QC gearbox (what I would normally call the leadscrew gear). I am currently using the 100 tooth gear on the metric transposing gear as the idler. Someone with a Heavy 10 please answer the following; what gear should be on the spindle? what gear should be on the shaft powering the QC gearbox? what should be in between them (the idler)? Perk (7743)
Perk I have a 1957 heavy 10, so that should be very similar. I believe yours should be the 2 lever, wide range gearbox (as is mine). You refer to the 40 tooth gear as being on the spindle, but I believe you mean the stud gear. It is driven by a gear which is in turn driven by one of the reversing gears, which in turn are driven by a gear actually on the spindle. The 40 tooth gear you mention is correct for the stud gear. The screw gear (on the input shaft to the QC gearbox) should be 56 tooth. The tooth count on the idler shouldn't matter (since it is both a driven gear (by the stud gear) and a drive gear (driving the screw gear). However, I believe the tooth count on mine is 72 teeth. With a 40 tooth stud gear and 56 tooth screw gear, you should get the correct threads, even using your 100 tooth gear as the idler. Frank (7745)
Frank, I will be trying this again as soon as I get a chance (darn work interferes with my life!). I will set up the gears as you say and let you know how it works. By the way, my heavy 10 lathe as you suggested has the two lever wide range QC gearbox. I have never had a QC before. My 9" is a model B standard change gear with power longitudinal and crossfeed. Perk (7753)
Headstock setup
What are the specs for bearing to spindle clearance for the L10 and how is it set up?? being a split sleeve encapsulated on the spindle other than disassembly how do we check clearances between spindle and ID of brgs. and OD of brgs. and the brg.caps on the drive and chuck end of spindle? Is this a simple lift check or some type of shim/plastiguage pinch check? stirboy (8998)
Look at the attached file under the "CHECKING THE HEADSTOCK." Webb (8999)
Webb, thanks for the spec on the lift check. Will be no problem. Thanks for the attachment. Stirboy (9005)
Headstock spindle bearing clearance 1928 9"
The army manual didn't mention the tolerances for headstock bearings so here's a question. I just had a scored spindle ground, hard chrome plated then reground and microfinished. I'm ready to align bore the old bearings which are scored but undersized for the new shaft journals. (Using my mill) My intent is to bore to -.0005 to -.001 then gradually hone to size. Just trying to figure out how far beyond journal diameter to go. Jim (12035)
Jim, It's my understanding that up to .001" clearance is acceptable. That's .002" on diameter. This is for the oil film. Testing the spindle stationary, specs show .0015" deflection is about right. The real test is running with the **correct oil** at mid to high speed. It will get warm, but not hot. If you want to go faster, more clearance is needed. RichD (12041)
Rich, that was what I needed. I'm surprised that the spindle is actually allowed that much slop. Just thought that the specs would be tighter since a thinner oil than automotive journal bearings use was being used. Jim (12046)
Jim, I naturally would hit the low end of the fit first, then test with your oil. Oil has to have room to flow, or you seize up. Temperature at running speed will tell you when all is well. Warm, but not to hot to touch. RichD (12059)
Headstock parts - I'm confused
I'm restoring a 9" model A purchased as a bit of a basket case at an auction. "Restoration" means to me degreasing, painting and replacing any obviously required parts. So far, I'm still working on the headstock. I've read a WHOLE BUNCH of posts in the archives on the subject, stared at the SBARMYLATHE pdf and at a page from the exploded parts diagram in the genuine manual for my machine. I notice three discrepancies between what I SEE and what I've read. 1. The spindle does not run in "plain cast iron" bearings, but does in fact run in bushings pressed into the headstock. They are about about .050" thick and made out of bronze ( I assume .. based on the color ) 2. There is no "second" shim stack, only a single shim ( front and rear ) 3. There are small V grooves in the front and rear of both "bearings", just outside of the bushings, about a size suitable for accepting a snap ring. Instead of a snap ring, though, the front had plastic ( nylon? ) rings, roughly V shaped in cross section, and split ( for installation, I guess ). The rear also had the grooves, but no rings. It DID seem to have a piece of felt on the backside. ( maybe it was felt .. maybe it was just grunge .. it disintegrated in my hands when disassembling things ) Here's my questions. 1. Are the bushings normal or an retrofit ? 2. I guess I'm going to need the laminated shim stacks, right ? 3. Are the nylon rings stock or a retrofit ? And should there be such rings on both the front and the rear bearing. Alan (12604)
Alan, Here's my answers. You have a later, more desirable (IMHO) bronze bearing headstock. Consider yourself lucky unless the bronze bearings are worn. There should be a spring loaded felt in the bottom that has contact with the oil cup for lubrication. More on this in the answer to 3. There should also be two screws in the back which pull the expanders in and tighten the bearings to the bore. While you have it apart, remove the oil cups, flush out all passages and blow out with compressed air. No, your current setup is correct. If you need to adjust bearing "crush" the single shim can be filed. Not an easy job. such rings The grooves should be empty. They are oil return passages. As oil gets wicked up by the felts and is pushed out either end of the bearing it goes into the groove and drains back to the reservoir (fed initially by the oil cup) to later be wicked up by the felt to continue the cycle. Sounds like some dross (cr*p) got stuck in there. The bearing won't move unless the expander is loose and does not need any retaining ring. The only way to get the spindle back in past the spring loaded wicks is to push the wicks down and then hold them with a wire inserted through the oil drain hole. Remove the wire when the spindle is in a position to hold down the wick by itself. Peter (12652)
Peter; A few follow-up comments. I'm not completely sure that's what I have. There is no adjuster piece of the sort shown in the SBARMYLATHE manual, and no screws. There is a split bushing, apparently pressed in, and apparently adjusted in the same manner as a "conventional" SB. Moreover, the bushings have been drilled to ROUGHLY match the various holes in the headstock casting, but the "rough" is the operative word here .. surely doesn't look like SB quality work. Are the various oil cups pressed in or threaded ? I'd like to remove them all, from all the pieces of the lathe, and do a proper clean, but if they're pressed in, I think I should leave well enough alone. OK, I'll reassemble without them. Ahh, oil drain hole ? Not sure where that is. Alan (12661)
Alan, The headstock oilers should be threaded RH. The oil drain holes are just above the oilers. Glen (12664)
For oil cups on the front of the headstock, the oil drain hole is immediately above the oil cup, about even with the cup lid. Looks to be about 1/8" dia. Look at the group's homepage photo. Barely discernable is a small black dot. Looking at pix on the Lathes UK site, not all SBs had oil cups on the front and not all that had them on the front had the drain holes. The last photo on this page also shows them, sort of: http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/index.html  Rick (12665)
Headstock bearings
How about using these same bearings for the rear "inner" thrust bearing ? ( With a suitable spacer as well, I suppose ) The bearing that came with mine has one race made of metal, as expected, and one made of nylon ! that's kinda trashed. Astonishingly, it still works, but obviously it has to go. The eBay price for these bearings is ridiculous. I still haven't been down to the local bearing shop yet. Alan (13928)
Stick to the stock ball race original bearings, as their load capacity is higher. Most of the thrust on the spindle is in their direction. My OEM thrust bearing lasted fifty years. Cylindrical Needle Roller type thrust bearings really exist to fit into tight places. Unless the rollers are tapered, which these thin ones are not, the outside of the roller is moving faster than the inside. Thus, there has to be some skidding, and this is at the cost of service life and load capacity, and the reason they should not be loaded to Zero Lash. Leave a few tenths. (13931)
Checking the Headstock?
I have a 9" SBL Cat# CL344ZD SN 40591NKR9. I think it shipped from SBL in May 1957. I have used the lathe for over a year and have found it to provide excellent performance for me. I recently found a SBL document regarding checking the headstock bearings. It says to place a dial indicator on the top of the spindle as close to the shoulder as possible. Place a piece of bar stock through the spindle, force the spindle down then lift with about 75lbs. They indicate that more than .001 movement should be corrected by removing a slice of a laminated shim. Both large and small bearings are tested in the same way. I found my lathe to have about .0015 movement in both bearings. My lathe has one large Allen bolt at the front and two smaller screws at the back of each bearing. It looks like the shim(s) is/are below the Allen bolt. What do the two rear screws do? My lathe has been working fine for me. Do I need to fix this? Will it cause bearing wear if not corrected? If correction is necessary are there any concerns regarding shim removal? Tom. (14586)
I would leave it alone at .0015 and it cutting excellent for you. The small screws are for the bearing expander and the larger ones hold the bearing cap down. If you have to tear down the spindle for other reasons then readjust the bearings. It takes a bit of time. JP (14592)
Headstock shims
Acting under authority of the "Too soon old/Too late smart" provision, I pulled the spindle on my 14.5" SB with no regard for where the shims came from. It "seemed like a good idea at the time" to split them equally on each side of the bearing caps although they were originally all on one side. I just don't know which side. Now that the thing is under power, all seems OK. The question is: What, if any, problems might I have caused? WD Smith (14611)
The shims are supposed to be equal under each cap on a bearing within 1 shim. Check the play in the bearings with an indicator. I believe it should be around .001" with 75 ft-lb lift. The last person in there may have unknowingly set it up that way. You probably fixed it. JP (14612)
SB 10K var spd slowing down & bushing area warm/hot
My SouthBend 10K lathe variable speed has started slowing down and the bearing area at the headstock gets warm/hot. The belts are new and the tension seems correct. I've tried to oil it, but need to look into the manuals further on . I know it has a bushing (not bearings?) There's no slop or play in the headstock, that I know of. Have you seen this before? Its definitely that front bushing right at the nose of the spindle. I don't know how its lubed? The whole "pillow block" get warm/hot and when I undo the tension to the belts and undo the gears to the spindle and try to move it by hand it hard to turn until I get it going some. Its like the bushing is too tight on the shaft, but it doesn't feel loose or rough, just too tight and not easy to turn. ?????? My first instinct is "Duh the bushing is going bad, but there's no roughness when turning the spindle by hand after I get it going by hand and it loosens up a little, there still is some force needed to do this. Lee (14733)
Sounds like the bearing adjustment is too tight. Assuming a 10k is similar to a 10L there is adjustments on the bearings. Place a shaft on the spindle lift up with a dial indicator on the spindle. It should move between .0007 and .0014 if it does not move its too tight. If it does move ok maybe something got in there. (dirt, grit or aluminum etc) I would not use it in that condition.(14735)
Heat in the bearings means either of two things- lack of oil or misadjusted bearings. bearings over time have a tendency to loosen, not tighten. I would suspect oil might be the issue. Using an oil that is too thick can have similar effect. Make sure you use the proper oil. Before I'd start messing with bearing adjustments, make sure that your oil galleries and returns are not plugged up by old gummy oil. This will involve removing the spindle and felts to do properly. Read the maintenance manual and search the archives for others who have done this, don't forget about the expanders. The 10K is not the same as the 10L. It is like the 9" lathes. Any instructions you find for 9" will work on your lathe. dennis (14736)
I think you've hit it with the lubrication issue. I've only used this lathe a handful of times since I bought it a year ago. It looks like the lubricant cups and wicks are missing. What an idiot I've been I assumed those holes were for some attachment that wasnt included. I hope I haven damaged anything yet. - Lee (14743)
Do you guys know where I can find the replacement cups and wicks for this. And what lengths are the wicks? Lee (14744)
I used a plastic syringe to inject spindle oil into the threaded holes where the cups are supposed to be, and oil squirted back out the smaller "angled" holes just above them. Is this an overflow port or an aid to getting a vacuum to help the pull the oil up thru the felt to assist the capillary action? Also does the felt wrap around the spindle in the bushing slot? Could someone give me a wonderful graphical description of how this lubrication gets into and around the bushing :-) ? After putting oil up there the spindle freed up quite a bit while hand turning it. I hope I got enough warning before damage was done. I'll dissect it in a couple of weeks when time permits. Lee (14749)
The 10K is very similar to the 9". There are several holes in the bottom of the journals. In the middle is a largish hole, from memory about 3/8" the felt wick is in this hole. There is a reservoir which leads to the oil caps, which you don't have from your pictures. There are two angled holes at the front and rear of the journals which lead down into the reservoir. There is a round groove just at the edge of the journals. The small holes are in the bottom of this groove. Oil is transferred, by capillary action to the spindle. In rotating it works its way to the round groves where it is collected and runs back into the reservoir by gravity. The wicks are kept in contact with the rotating spindle with springs. The wicks also act as oil filters removing any crud which finds its way back into the return holes. The wicks are available from Leblond. There is a link to them under "links" I paid $11 in February. Part # sbpt207nk1 Shipping and handling was $14.91 but I also ordered a new spindle thrust bearing. The Oilcaps are PT2676nk1. You may be able to get those less expensively from McMaster-Carr. You should take this opportunity to clean the reservoirs and all the holes. The tow holes above where the caps should go are used when inserting the spindle You need to compress the spring loaded felts and insert a rod to keep them compressed. I use small drills but paper clips will work. (14761)
There is a manual on the internet http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2001_retired_files/sbarmylathe.pdf You need Adobe Reader. Its a big file. If you are on a dial up connection it will take a Long while. This gives you the assembly drawings and the part #s Jim B. (14762)
You are keeping the GITS spindle oil cup filled with spindle oil and is it using the oil ? That is no plugged? Darrell (14765)
SB 9 headstock taper size question
I've recently acquired a 9 inch model A in fairly nice shape - but the accessories it came with were a bit scattered (since the original owner has passed on). The SB catalog I've got (6601) says the headstock and tailstock tapers are both MT2 - but I'm not buying it. The tail is indeed MT2, but the headstock is considerably larger - and I'm guessing it is an MT3 (but I don't have anything with that taper to test it with). Can someone tell me if MT3 is correct for this headstock (I'd really like to know before ordering a center for the faceplate)? By the way, the serial number ends in NAR9, which I'm deciphering as a "Standard" hole / taper in the shaft. Carl (15267)
The spec sheet shows .938" large opening and .602 taper, a #3 morse is .938" and .60235 taper. JP (15269)
Carl, most lathes came with a spindle sleeve adapter, to reduce the spindle hole down to the center taper size. (15286)
Heavy 10 Headstock Bearing Adjustment
Would like a little input here on a problem I have. At the risk of sounding a little bit like a hack here is what happened: I was happily turning away when my belt began to slip and the headstock spindle began to seize. I realize now, that I had been seeing symptoms of this for the last couple of weeks (belt slippage on start up). It was easy to trace the problem to the headstock bearings. I decided to remove the cap screws, lift the bearing caps off, and take a look. I examined the spindle shaft through the split in top of the bearings and found it to look almost new. Doesn't look worn at all. Later (and here is where my brainfart became obvious) I checked the FAQs and found the procedure for replacing and adjusting the headstock bearings in the 10L through 16" lathes. Reading this, I realized that since I did not remove the bearing expander screws first like I was supposed to, I must have pulled the expanders through the split in the top of the bearings. I then replaced the caps and tried to carefully tighten up the cap screws. I realize now of course that I must have been compressing the expanders down on top of the bearing split. I knew something was wrong when the spindle began to seize, so I didn't tighten it up much (give me credit in that I HAVE LEARNED NOT TO FORCE THINGS!). I am at work now, but I plan on trying to reassemble the spindle this weekend and follow the correct procedure to adjust the bearings. I think now that all I had to do to begin with was adjust the expanders to open up the front bearing a little. Heck, I didn't even know their were expanders in there! Do you think I have permanently botched up the bearing? Is there hope for me? Perk (15361)
All is well. I thought I would follow up in case anyone else got into this kind of fix. I got back into the bearings and found the expanders and the surfaces they bear against to be in good shape and not distorted as the result of pulling them through the bearing slot when I lifted off the bearing caps. I cleaned everything up and made sure the oil holes were clear and then proceeded to carefully reassemble according to the instructions from the files. I used a retaining clip pliers to spread the bearing slot and install the expanders. Their was plenty of spring to do this. Once together, in terms of bearing adjustment, I found that with no expansion on the bearing the spindle was pretty much locked up and wouldn't move. This surprised me and confirmed that the problem in the first place might have been a simple adjustment of a quarter turn or so more expansion on the front bearing. Those bearings are an amazingly close fit to the spindle surfaces. I adjusted both the front and rear bearings so they just turned freely and no more. Then I did the test with a bar in the headstock and 75lbs. of downward pressure and found the movement on the dial indicator to be about .0005". The specs said it should be within 0.001". Got everything back together and it seems to run like a top again. Two things are important here; Read the FAQs if you plan on adjusting your headstock bearings. If your spindle seems to be turning hard or is seized up, try adjusting the bearing expanders first before disassembling the bearing caps. Hope this might help someone else in the future. Perk (15400)
South Bend lathe company had a bearing adjustment plate that was attached to the inside of the belt cover for this very reason. I have only seen these on several heavy 10's that I have owned. I'm sure they would also work for the other models with this style of headstock. I have these plates, along with several others remanufactured, and available for sale. This particular plate can be viewed on ebay, item number 2580056799. Randy (15422)
Hvy 10 headstock question
I have checked the bearing clearance on my hvy10 and found that in the area directly opposite the tool bit that I have more clearance, around .002-.003 which I guess indicates that the spindle bore is a little out of round. I don't think removing shims will help, should I just live with it? It is an early machine that does not have the replaceable bearings? I am sure that I am not the only one that has faced this. (16093)
If it cuts fine consider leaving it alone, otherwise adjust the bearing using the shim pack by following the directions in the parts manual maintenance section. First check to insure the spindle bearing bolts are all tight and then test it again with a bar in the spindle and 75lbs of force, first up and then down. Have an indicator on the spindle close to the bearing. Do the same to the rear bearing. .001" to .002" clearance is good. The takeup nut is adjusted hand tight and then backed off 3/8", a little more if it causes the spindle to drag. JP (16096)
Headstock Bearing Question
I've been following the recent thread regarding oil leaking past the headstock bearings and finally got up the courage to remove the bearing caps on my 9" Junior. The bronze bearings and spindle look quite good (I've been fanatical about refilling the oil cups). However, no felt anywhere. The oil cups are dead center on top of the bearing caps. There is a groove across the inside top of the bearings with an oil hole in the center. What has me stumped is that the groove is so shallow, the felt (if that's what's supposed to be in the groove) would have to be paper thin. Ralph (16445)
I think the parts manual is in southbendlathe_pix. It should show what is supposed to be there. JP (16450)
I believe the oil scheme on my 405 is similar to your 9" junior. I have up loaded a picture of the rear journal oil felt slot and the felt I just removed from it. I am not sure what you mean by "so shallow" These slots measure 3/16 wide by 3/32 deep. I found a company on the Web. DURO FELT PRODUCTS #6 WHITE ASPEN CT. LITTLE ROCK AR 72212. They sell a round felt product designed as oil wicks for old overhead fans. It fits perfectly in my slots. The part # was WICKS 3/16 diameter x 36 " long. It cost $4.50 including shipping. I needed to leave a "tail" hanging out of the journal so that the spindle would not drag the wick backward with it. The spindle compressed the round wick so that it conformed to the rectangular slot. I looked at McMaster's but I never found a felt that I thought would work. They come in sheets and you would need to cut the sheet to a thin strip. Perhaps its possible with a good paper slicer but I didn't think I had the skill or patience for it. This may or may not be the same as or similar to your 9 junior. I have posted the picture to http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/groups/sblinfo . This was just taken using a MINOLTA DiMAGE-7 in the macro mode. It was initially 1.955 Mb. I compressed it Adobe Photoshop to its present 89Kb. I will remove it tomorrow . Jim B. (16451)
Ralph: For what it's worth, the 9" Junior that I used to own had no felt in there either. I kept the bearings oiled, and the spindle always spun like it was mounted in butter. Kim (16457)
What do you mean by a "tail", and where would it hang out? I'm a little bit puzzled by this. (I am on the verge of compressing some Duro-Felt wick in my New Model 82 bearings.) Duro-Felt is a nice outfit to deal with, BTW. The oilgroove in the Model 82 headstock bearing measures .110 wide by .065 deep, so in my case, a 1/8" wick is probably more likely to give satisfaction. It seems soft enough to compress to these dimensions without problem. The bearings on this lathe have the machined (not chiseled) groove on the upper half. On the lower half of the bearing, there are some sort of "divots" or "chamfers" cut out to spread the oil laterally. On the lower half of the left bearing, this chamfer continues to the right, thus allowing a wick to protrude from the journal and service the thrust bearing. Are these what you mean by "tails"? I agree that there is a possible issue with the felt being dragged about by the spindle. It certainly sounds similar to my model 82, a contemporary of the JR. Could you send me this picture off-list, if you are reluctant to post it on a more permanent basis? I could find no pictures at the sblinfo group, and the URL referenced points nowhere. I am seeing "GROUP_CHECK" error at this list's photo section at present. Dave (16470)
By a tail I meant that you need to cut the wick longer than you need. Put the wick into the groves so that it just at the rear of the journal. Hold onto the "tail" as you feed the wick into spindle into the journal. If your rear Journal is the same as the 405 You need to leave tails on both ends since they will need to wrap into the vertical grooves. The excess on the front and rear can be cut off after the spindle is "Home". (16472)
I am not sure what you mean by "so shallow" These slots spindle round The slots are rectangular, approx. 90 thousandths wide by 25 thousandths deep. The slots stop about 1/8 of an inch before the edge of the bearing on each side, so there's no way to leave a tail hanging out of the journal. (16491)
This sounds like an oil channel to me! JP (16492)
13" headstock bearing worn
I've been playing with an well worn 13" (1950s vintage) lathe, I have two of them and the better of the two is in pieces waiting to be painted. It will take a while before I get time to finish so in the mean time I have The well worn copy set up to use (bought it for the tooling mostly, plan to sell or part out when all finished). I've checked the spindle slop as shown in the SB book and have adjusted it, problem is if I get it any tighter than about .003 the bearings heat up and get tight. When I got this lath it had been abused for some time, the wicks were missing and some light scoring on both journals. I can accept that this may be the best that this lath is now capable but thought Id run it by every one and see if there is any better ideas. If I tighten everything as tight as I can and still get the spindle to turn it will cut to better than .0005 per inch but have to turn slow and cant finish more than 1" of cut before the spindle tightens up. With the bearings loosened up I'm lucky to get .002 per inch of taper smaller as I get near the headstock). I find it cuts better with a heavy chuck than with collets and I assume with the light cuts I'm taking the heavy chuck keeps the spindle from moving so much. What got this all started is trying to turn down some 1 1/4 w-1 stock to 3/4 so as to fit my R8 collet on my mill. I was hoping to be able to hold better than .001 for 1.5 inch or so. I'm not much of a machinist yet so any advice would be appreciated. I'm using mobile spindle oil and have cleaned out all galleries and installed SB wicks. I've tried heavy cuts (.040 or so as apposed to the .005 usually used as final cut) but between the spindle drag and the power required for the cut I'm at the edge of slowing the motor while cutting. I'm feeding about .005 per rev and using positive insert carbide and getting good finish for the most part as long as it doesn't chatter. The scoring on the journals seems slight and does not measure more than a thou. I have adjusted the wedges several times but don't seem to see much change with that. Roger (16906)
This might be a bit jerry rigged, but if the taper is consistent, then maybe turn the stock between centers or in the chuck or collet and with a center in the tail stock. If you offset the tailstock a bit, you would be cutting a taper. This might correct the taper your headstock is imparting. If you have a taper attachment, you could use this instead. I would cut stock in say 12 inch lengths and maybe touchup the part with a file. This is a lot of work, but that's what you have to do sometimes with worn equipment. Then cut the 12 inch stock to the length needed. Maybe not the best, but worth a try. Tom (16907)
Installing bushings
I was taught somewhere or someplace that to install an oilite bushing you make a "pusher" as a short stepped shaft. Make the smaller part the size of the shaft you are going to use. the larger part the OD of the bushing. Press in the bushing with your press or whatever you have. The ID of the bushing will shrink from the pressing operation, then ream the ID to the dimension you need. Turning an oilite bushing on the lathe may harm its properties by "smearing" closed the microscopic pores that provide the oil. As my memory lies to me a lot I think this information is included in the catalogs of various bushing manufacturers, but don't guarantee it. John (19870)
You are correct about the 'pusher plug'. The same thing is used with seal installation tools. The small shaft on the plug should be a little smaller than the bearing ID so when the bearing is compressed it will not lock on the plug. The mounting hole should be a few thou smaller than the bearing OD and the tool should be .01 smaller than the bearing ID. The bronze is not all that soft so smearing is a non issue with a sharp HSS boring tool or reamer. Don't use heat during installation as it draws the oil out of the bearing. JP (19873)
Cone pulley section getting warm?
I noticed that running my 9A with the back gear engaged the flat belt cone pulley section of my spindle was getting warm after about 2 - 3 minuets of running. Not too hot to touch but just warm to the touch. I've loaded it with grease and checked and tried to load more into the oil port but it still gets warm. Am I experiencing a failure warning or is it normal for the cone pulley to get a little warm? The bearings journals are cool to the touch just the cone pulley section. With the bull gear unlocked the pulley section will spin by hand with resistance but no more than I would expect using grease lube. I've also check the flat belt tension and adjusted it to very light and still get the heat though I can't go too light with the tension as then I can't cut a thread. I'm using the recommended grease, which is synthetic brake grease with graphite that others have recommended. I truly hope that I'm worried over nothing. JJ (20081)
Its possible that you are getting a minute amount of slippage between the belt and the cone, not enough to effect you machining but enough to generate a little heat. I have seen this in web handling rolls in the photographic industry. Which step on the cone are you running on? the smaller the wrap angle that you use the more slippage you can expect to see. I am not saying this is it, but it is a good possibility. Chris (20084)
I have a 10K in good shape and use the factory Teflon grease. Have found that running it for a while, especially with it in high back gear it will get a little warm. Remember, there is a small clearance between the step pulley and the spindle and a large surface area. This necessitates a low viscosity lubricant. Trying to force in more lubricant will certainly not help. Just follow instructions, it doesn't take much. Ed P (20085)
JJ If the cone pulley has been lubricated with the incorrect grease it is possible that, over the years, it has hardened and blocked up the distribution grooves so that most of the bearing area is not well lubricated. A long time ago I found this on one of my lathes, either a Pools or a South-Bend but I can no longer remember which. The area immediately under the feed port was clear but the distribution grooves were filled with a friable semi-solid, presumably grease after 30 or so years of oxidization. A bit of lubricant was able to force through but clearly this was barely sufficient to prevent seizing. After cleaning, re-assembly and proper lubrication the pulley ran cool. Clive (20090)
I agree with Clive, I just ran my 10K for an hour in back gear and it ran cool to the touch. I cleaned and relubed my lathe 2 months ago. I lubed with the proper Teflon grease from McMaster-Carr. Bob (20091)
There is an asterisk on the chart noting that the back gear should not be used to run at that speed. The old charts omitted that configuration with the warning printed clearly, the new one uses the asterisk and a footnote. I would also agree with Clive that it wouldn't hurt to make sure the bearing is getting full lubrication. I don't use the grease because I don't use the back gears that much. I just fill the thing with 30 wt oil when I do use them. That avoids the residue issue that accompanies grease. Grease is oil with "soap", when the oil has gone the soap remains and isn't really a good lubricant. Any time you increase the viscosity of a lubricant for a given bearing there will be more heat generated. If the lubricant becomes pressurized the heat will also increase. The lubricant must flow freely in the bearing. RC (20114)
13" Southbend Headstocks
Is the headstock with the older 1 7/8"-8 spindle and the 2 1/8"-8 spindle are interchangeable on the same bed? In other words can I upgrade from 1 7/8"-8 to the the newer spindle by simply changing the entire headstock? Dann (21006)
I just finished the same conversion on my 13 inch . You will need the 2 1/4 headstock casting , spindle, flat belt, end gear cover and reverse gear lever assembly. Don't tighten the headstock too much or the spindle will not move. Yes it fits ,mine is running with a 2 1/4 inch spindle much better design with thrust bearings for both directions. (21007)
9" Headstock rebuilding?
Is there anyone that rebuilds/re-bearings 9" headstocks? At one time I read that there was an outfit that bored the casting and pressed in bronze bearings but cant seem to dig up that info again. Tj (21820)
Miller Fabrication in the links reworks the 9" headstocks. Paul (21823)
On a 13 inch SBL with a 4D1 spindle, to remove the bull gear which way do you put it in the arbor press? Also where is the best place to put a marks so I will line it up the way it came off. I have the manual on it. Also why is it so hard to get a 3 MT spindle sleeve and face plates? Leeg (23155)
The shaft should remove toward the tailstock, so the chuck end will be down. There should be a keyway in the bull gear .Bob(23156)
South Bend Small Bore Heavy 10"?
Are there any members out there with an "early" (and I don't have a clue how early that would be ) Small Spindle Bore Heavy 10" South Bend? I have been told there is such an animal but have never seen a post relating to it. If Yes then please contact me off group so I can verify some sizing on the Spindle. Ron (23218)
What is the Bore size on a standard heavy 10"? Thomas (23219)
Thomas: Large Bore ( or as you say "standard" ) Heavy 10" has about an 1-7/16" Bore while the Small Bore has I believe about an 1-1/16" Bore. Ron (23221)
I think they reference Large bore and Standard. A letter "L" in the serial number is for the large bore as I understand it. I don't think the term small bore is used for this model. JP (23223)
Ron I checked the bore in my S.B and it is the 1 1/16.Let me know what you need and I will see if I can help you. All the numbers on the lathe are SN. 178095 with LQR on the back way UB103 The number on the index plate is Qcg101. The lathe was bolted to a one inch plate steel and as far as I can find out always has been. Thomas (23224)
Ron, I have a heavy 10 with a 1 7/8 8 spindle thread and a 1 inch through bore with a #3 MT. The table in the SB FAQ lists the specks for this type of spindle. My lathe is a 3- bed with a slide gear and a one lever QC box. Catalog # 8199ZF and bed # 356RKR7. Is this the info you are looking for? Ray (23226)
Shim stock?
I spent the day recommissionning another lathe. I picked up an unmarked, yet Atlasesque (Is that a word?) lathe for a song. It's been good to have the SB to assist in fabrication and cleaning for the other machine. I still need to turn some new spinners for the compound and cross slide. The amazing Zamak (Read as pot metal.) did not fare so well over the years. I was buttoning things up and started doing checks on the alignment. The centers are out by .062+ up and down. I need to raise the headstock. (Thank goodness!) Would 1/16th CRS be appropriate for this application? Do I need a different material? I planned to slip a piece under each side of the headstock, but keep the ways clear for the saddle. All my SB accessories and tooling swaps over perfectly. I NEED 2 lathes, don't I? Can someone post a link to the rebuilding machinery book that is most popular here on the list? Mike (24441)
Why don't you lower the tailstock instead? Kevin (24442)
You should definitely lower the tailstock. If you raise the front of the headstock, you will turn taper when you make a facing cut. The tailstock must have something wrong, since the headstock probably ( ? ) never moved. .062 is quite a bit. Shim the back of the tailstock? Bernie (24443)
Mike you are talking shimming up the headstock evenly right? .062 on each way should work. If you just shim the rear of the tailstock when you drill a hole the drill will run downhill. An even shim should work. Bob (24444)
Yup, I understand that if I tilt the headstock, it would be bad. I need to check the effect on the gear train in retrospect. I plan to do a total headstock raise. Yup, the .062 is a lot. nearly 1/16th inch. I'm not sure why it doesn't line up. The Atlas doesn't appear to be as well made as my SB, and I suspect this is the way it has been all the time. Mike (24448)
A possibility is that the tailstock has been changed at some time... Personally I'd rather do an alignment on a tailstock than the head, have you checked what shimming there is on the tailstock? Bernard R (24449)
I would suggest that you do not shim the head stock. You are asking for trouble. If the tail-stock is high mill the base off where it splits. If it is too low shim it up. If I were you , I would not mess with the head-stock at all. Bruce (24450)
I'll look at it more over the week. No rush. I have a good lathe. The tail seems to be untampered, and has no shims. However, it may have been a replacement. I may need to do some milling. Have to get my mill home first. I need the weather to thaw so we can move it without killing someone while loading, If the headstock lift doesn't foul my drive train, that may be a more easily achievable option with my current technology. I'll think on this more. Mike (24453)
Mike, Over the weekend my brother, who is in the PM department of GM, and I were having a conversation about the project on my 1922 9". Something I did not think of, he told me was the first step in setting up the lathe. When I move the bed to the new table I'm building, he stated to set a dial indicator on the mounts and make sure it does not move when bolting it down. If it does move, shim it until it does not. I'm not sure if this even applies to your problem, but its an easy check. This would probably be more for twist or flexing, but something to think about. Steve (24460)
Steve, This is why we level the lathe, you have the first step, the next is to use a precision level to check for bed twist and modify the shim packs accordingly. Also, floors move, even concrete floors are flexible. JP (24462)
Bore size of a 14 or 14 1/2?
I have a chance to look at a 14" South Bend. It's a drive, and may not be worth my while at $2000. However, if the spindle bore is over 1", that may improve the attractiveness. What is the bore on one of these. Mike (25267)
According to my '63 Catalog, the 14-1/2" SB has a spindle bore of 1-3/8". Scott S. Logan (25268)
Mike: If it is 14" and not 14-1/2" then it is a newer Variable Speed Model . Really square looking as compared to the older 14-1/2". Spindle Bore is at least 1-7/16" and it takes 5C Collets. I have seen a few but only in pics....a member on this list just got one and did have pics posted....think it was Wayne Makowicki. I think most of them or at least the three I have seen all had Camlock Spindles. I have a Handwheel Closer for a 14" with DI-3 or 4 Camlock Spindle available. It ( The lathe) would be something I would buy if it is not bagged out for that kind of $. The two others I have seen fetched over $4000. Ron (25269)
Yup, 14 1/2" Thanks for the specs. Mike 3/8". BR Mike (25274)
Mike: If it is 14-1/2" they came in two different bore sizes. One is 1-1/16" and takes 4C Collets and the other is 1-3/8" + and takes 5C Collets. Ron (25275)
Per Spec Sheet 7324 in the files section, seems there were two sizes for the 14-1/2" lathe. 1- (25276)
The spindle bore on my 14 is 1 58". John (25281)
I bought a 14" and it has a 1-1/2 bore with a d1-4 cam lock spindle, some came with a d1-3 and 1-3/8 bore. It sounds like you are looking at a 14-1/2. (25283)

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