| Moglice? (Jun 19, 2001) |
Bolts & Steel supply for central
NJ (Jul 17, 2004) |
| Questions About Steel Usage
(Feb 2, 2002) |
Square Head Bolts (Jul
27, 2004) |
| Turcite? (Sep 14, 2002) |
What Is This Metal Used For?
(Sep 22, 2004) |
|
Material Question (Oct 14, 2002) |
Source for Wrought Iron
(Dec 2, 2004) |
| BDMS? (Mar 4,
2003) |
Dura-Bar / MLA Faceplate
(Dec 22, 2004) |
|
Moglice (May 1, 2003) |
Tuflok Plastic Rivets
(Jan 5, 2005) |
| What
Steel to Use (Dec 17, 2003) |
Source for Copper Sheet
(Jan 11, 2005) |
| 304L stainless (Feb 16,
2004) |
US equivalent to PGMS BMS?
(Feb 10, 2005) |
| |
| Moglice? |
| I
wound on moglice repair stuff at Devitt Machinery with WebFerret.
Looks like they are pushing it for way repairs, not replacing busted
gear teeth though. Bubba K. (911) |
| Questions About Steel Usage |
| I think 12L14 is a
leaded alloy of the low carbon steels. (hence the L designation) The
lead alloy makes the material machine easier and for that reason is
used extensively in automatic screw machine production. I've had no
problem in using 1018 for various projects. I even prefer 1018 for
all my v blocks and angle plates. Rick, I forget what size lathe you
are discussing in this thread but in the past couple of weeks there
has been discussion of this subject. (check back through the files)
I altered my 9" small dial and made the bushing out of 1018. Just
take a final cut with a sharpened tool at higher RPM and slower feed
and then sand. Also, in case my alteration didn't work, (had to
sleeve for a longer shaft for dial/bushing and find bearings at
reasonable $) I bought a large crossfeed assembly. I now have an
extra assembly listed on Ebay. If you are interested I can give you
more info on parts, dimensions, and method of my alteration. Ed
(3052) |
| And speaking of different varieties
steel, would I be asking for trouble if I made a replacement spindle
for my dividing head out of either of these? How 'bout garden
variety CRS, whatever that is? I would like to avoid hardening since
I have no tool post grinder. Does case hardening cause warping? With
reasonable care would a machinable steel last a (my) lifetime of
careful use as a dividing head spindle? The current spindle can be
filed so it isn't hardened. The whole reason is that my dividing
head has a 1-3/4" 8-TPI nose and I'd like to get down to a more
standard 1-1/2" 8-TPI. I could do that to the existing spindle but
the wall thickness of the nose would be about 1/8" at the thread
depth near the nose. Too thin? Could I hard silver-solder a sleeve
inside the spindle to strengthen it up and then bore it out to 3MT
as the current spindle taper is much larger than 3MT? How 'bout just
draw-baring in the center to beef it up? Thanks for guidance in the
materials and strength of materials areas. Paul R. (3053) |
| Paul, I think you
answered one of your own questions: "The current spindle can be
filed so it isn't hardened." Rick K. (3055) |
| Paul For all practical reasons as
long as you are not going to heat treat it use 12L13 as it is so
much nicer to work with. And yes case hardening will cause things to
warp. The only materials that I have found that can be heat treated
with out moving are PH materials like 17-4 that are done in a salt
bath. And what type of dividing head is it as all the B S 0 heads
come with 1 1/2-8 and B S 1 heads use 2 1/4-8. JWE (3056) |
| My dividing head
says: "GULLEDGE MACH. WKS, SANTA ANA, CALIF" It is a 3-1/2 center
height 40:1 ratio with a 1-3/4-8 TPI nose and probably a big B S
taper. Here's a small picture of it. The scale in front is 6" long
for size reference. I had to make the crank handle and second
dividing plate, and had to tear it down to un-gum it, but I got it
for $40.00 and it's in good shape now (except for the non-standard
nose. Paul R. (3057) |
| The thread on steel
selection seems to be getting a lot of attention, especially about
1018 CRS and its use. There have been several good points made about
1018, 4140 and others, but I always select material on the basis of
"form, fit, and function." While it's true that 1018 CRS is "a poor
mans steel" that doesn't mean that it is worthless for projects. On
my small dial alteration to the large for my SB 9" I made the new
sleeve from CRS. I could lay this next to the original or one made
out of most any steel and you would have a hard time telling them
apart. I made some of my first angle plates and v blocks at work out
of tool steels such as H13, 4140, and 6150. After a few years they
all "moved" from the original grind. For several years now I have
used 1018 with a .06 thick case hardening after green grind. None of
my blocks have moved. I made a matched set of 4" angle plates this
way and they are still within the .0001 they were originally ground
to. I attribute this to the lack of internal stresses in case
hardened 1018. During case hardening the steel is put into a carbon
rich bed and soaked at high heat. This "drives" carbon into the
outer skin of the steel, the depth determined by the soak time. In
the actual hardening process this outer skin then has the carbon
necessary for the molecular transformation to produce the hardness.
However, the internal steel will remain soft and not have the
stresses associated with the molecular transformations. High carbon
tool steels, or through hardening as sometimes called, have residual
stresses even with proper cool down and tempering. One member (sorry
I forgot who) talked about his high school shop class hardening HRS
by water quenching. I think you may have had a water quenching steel
rather than HRS. Another member talked about the differences between
HRS and CRS. He is correct about the thickness, etc., but I would
like to expand on his comments. CRS costs less than HRS because HRS
is rolled to thickness under heat. The heat permits the thickness
reduction with the grain moving fairly uniformly throughout the
structure, hence no stresses built up from grain deformation. CRS is
rolled cold (lower heat) and only the outer layer of grains are
compressed setting up the stresses that cause warping if you machine
one side. The cold rolling also produces the smooth finish seen vs
the black scale on HRS. By normalizing and stress relieving before
machining the problems associated with these stresses can be for the
most part avoided. The Machinery's Handbook has excellent sections
on steels and heat treating. If you don't want to invest the $$'s
just to have around the garage, they can be found occasionally at
rummage sales. I have seen several older editions and can never
resist the $2 price tag! I think I have 4 or 5 around now. Ed
(3067) |
| As far as steel for
carburization, 8620 is very good. You will want a low carbon steel
for this hardening process. That's the 20 in 8620(20 points of
carbon). Since you can't temper a case hardened steel (you would loose
the hardness). If you don't temper high carbon steels then they are
brittle. You are assuming it isn't hardened, because you can file
it. This may not be true. It just might not be very hard. Files are
about 60 Rc, if I remember correctly. You can get some steels that
are already hardened. You might look at LaSalle Fatigue Proof. I
think it is hardened, annealed and stress relived. I can't remember
exactly how hard it is. I think it is 1044 steel in a hardened
state. It machines very well. As you machine a steel, you also
impart stress into it. You can stress relieve steel at a temperature
of around 200-400 degrees Fahrenheit. Leave at this temperature for
more than a few hours. Another process might be to chrome the
journals. Chrome is very hard and can be applied to specific spots.
Tom
(3072) |
| Cold rolled steel is full of
stresses from rolling cold. It
will warp when machined as surface stress is relieved. Hot rolled
would be a better choice although needing more allowance for
machining under the mill scale. I would not try to silver solder any
thing on one of my spindles as I would be afraid of that much heat
(dull red heat for SS) John (3107) |
| How about just making a new backplate for your chuck or
faceplate with the thread you need. For that CRS or cold rolled
steel would work great. It seems to me to be a whole lot easier than
the whole spindle. I would guess that there is milling work needed
also. If I were doing it, I would use pre-heat treated 4140. Rockwells around 28 and is considered a chrome moly steel. I am
pretty sure files are rc 65 so anything below around 58 rc can be
filed.
(3200) |
| I was going to make
an adapter for some small chucks, like off my 7x10 or my Taig. The
problem with adapter plates in general is that I can't easily move
work + chuck from my 9" SBL to the dividing head to keep it
centered. Since all of my big tooling (present and future) is for
the SB spindle nose, it would be nice to standardize my shop around
that. Paul R. (3201) |
| Turcite? |
|
What is
turcite? Frank M (6314) |
| It s a material available in thin
strips which are glued to the ways of a machine then scraped till
they are flat. The material is used by machine tool rebuilders as
well as new machine manufactures. Here is the WEB site for Moglice a
similar material that is also available as a castable putty.
http://www.moglice.com
and here is one for Turcite
http://www.boedeker.com/turcax_p.htm
Yasmiin (6315) |
|
Material Question |
|
My lathe came with a South Bend backing plate but no
chuck. I purchased a chuck from Travers thanks to someone's
suggestion from this list, thinking I could just turn down the
existing backing plate. I started doing that tonight, actually the
first time I've tried to cut anything on this lathe. It made a lot
of grinding type noise with a very light cut, and there were no
chips, only fine dust like from grinding. I have not done a lot of
lathe work, and I've never encountered anything like this. Does this
seem normal? Does anyone know what this plate could be made of? Cast
iron or hardened steel possibly? And can I successfully turn it down
to fit my new chuck?
(6650) |
|
Backplates are usually cast iron. The surface everywhere will have a
somewhat porous appearance. Also, you may be using an improper
cutting tool. Be sure to select something for cast iron. If cutting
with carbide; use a C-2 grade. It is normal to produce a fine,
sand-like material from cast iron. The noise and fine dust indicate
to me that your cutter is not right. If not correct; the cutter will
probably show rapid wear. The noise may also be from a non-rigid
set-up. (6651) |
|
I used both a C-2 and C-6 carbide, they both
seemed about the same. I will try it with the C-2 again tonight. The
setup is the standard tool holder from South Bend, maybe I will
"choke up" the tool and holder to have as little overhang as
possible. Do I need a lubricant while cutting?
(6660) |
| I cut
these dry. Have always had good results. I've no idea what you might
use for lube, but I'm sure there is something appropriate. I simply
don't care for the mess. (6661) |
|
Mark, I'd check the center height of the cutting
tool. It might be a tool geometry problem i.e. not enough tool
clearance. Although the 'lantern' type tool holder is flexible, it
does rotate to achieve the center height. This takes away from the
clearance angle. Block or shim up between the tool holder and the
pivot piece if needed. I'd try and keep the tool holder fairly level.
To check the tool center height, get a small piece of flat stock.
Place it between the OD of the part and the tool bit. Not to much
pressure though. The flat stock (say 1/16 thick) should be vertical
when the tool is on center. Also cast iron is a bit touchy on speeds
so check those. I come up with 75 to 100 RPM for cast iron on a 4
inch diameter part. I took the middle on cutting speed of 75 css.
This is for HSS tool bits. With carbide try 200 RPM. I took 275 as
the css. Tom (6662) |
| That was it. I slowed the spindle down to ~ 91 RPM, and it cut
just fine. Next time I'll look for the answer in Machinery's
Handbook BEFORE I post a question here, but it's nice to know the
correct answers are so close at hand.
(6668) |
| BDMS? |
| I was reading the plans to make a tool
post and he uses this as his metal BDMS. I have no I idea what it
is. Can anyone help? Now in the article by Kevin Ferguson on
building this tool post he suggest that in the United States this is
called CRS. He goes on to say that this is a hard material to turn.
He then says that using 12L14 might have been better but I think
this must be a cutting fluid? maybe not then he talks about O1 and
tempering it. Frank
(9618) |
| BDMS (Bright
drawn mild steel) is Brit speak for CRS (cold rolled steel) in the
US of A. 12L14, free machining leaded steel, only comes in rounds
and hexes. Cuts like brass. Use plenty of dark cutting oil when
machining CRS and use sharp tools with top rake. RichD (9619) |
| I have no
ideas as to BDMS, but CRS is Cold Rolled Steel. Its a generic name.
Generally speaking it is a low carbon steel such as 1018 or 12L14.
Its just a way of processing steel. The 'L' in the 12L14 is for lead
that is added to help get a better finish in turning the steel. I
don't think 1018 is hard to turn, but the finish isn't usually the
best. Still it should be OK. I like 8620. It turns good and finishes
good. I never checked the cost. These low carbon steels are hardened
with case hardening by various methods. The outside is hard, but the
inside is still soft. I'm not that familiar with O1, its probably a
tool steel. Tom (9620) |
| Moglice |
| Moglice is a moldable, pourable bearing material
often used to build up worn saddles (among other things). It has
also been used in the manufacture of some new machine tools. More
details at: http://www.moglice.com Scott Logan (10666) |
| Moglice is
one of the premier epoxy like compounds that are used to repair
worn machine tools. you can grind the ways and the carriage, then
make standoffs for the carriage and fill the space. you get not only
a new surface, but one that will be the correct height and will wear
great and be slippery tool this process extends to half nuts too !
you can spray a release agent on the screw, fill the nuts with
Moglice, then after it sets, you can trim the excess and have
re-surfaced nuts. obvious problem is that if the screws are worn,
they will get tight at the ends, or if you did it at the ends, they
will be loose in the middle. Dave (10674) |
| What Steel to
Use |
| I'm enjoying my
South Bend Junior 9 and am beginning to get the hang of it again.
I've been checking out local metal suppliers and am finding things a
bit confusing. The books that I look at show many different alloys
of steel. Most of the metal places have what they seem to
generically refer to as "cold-rolled steel rod" and that's it. They
can't say whether it's 1018, 1045, or whatever. I want to make a
firing pin for an old rifle and the original pin appears to be
hardened. I need to figure out what type of steel I should use,
that's either tough enough to use as is or has enough carbon content
so I can harden it. Any advice on how I might approach selecting the
right metal and asking the right questions of the metal suppliers? Ralph
(15735) |
| Use O1 drill rod
and temper it after hardening. You may not want to bring it to full
hardness for that application. For cold roll the 1045 has more
carbon than 1018. If the supplier doesn't say what type it is it is
probably from Asia and could be anything. Don't bother with that
supplier. A parts vendor I know got a great deal on some screws a
while back from Asia, problem was it tripped the Geiger counter,
they were made from Russian nuke scrap. Sources of metals in small
quantity are Onlinemetals and Metals Express. McMaster has drill
rod, info on it and info on hardening it. JP
(15740) |
| I agree with the
o1. That's "oh" 1, and not a "zero"1. O meaning oil hardening
drill rod. Ray
(15743) |
| Drill rod works
good. What type of firearm are we talking about? If you go cold
rolled,
I'd go 8620. Cold rolled is a generic term for low carbon steel(20
point of carbon) such as 1018 etc. Since it isn't hardenable, they
can form or roll the steel at lower temperatures (i.e. not red hot).
This gives a smooth finish. 1045 would be a hardenable steel. You
would have to draw and temper the steel. To get an even heating of
such a small part as a firing pin, heat up a larger piece of steel.
Place the firing pin on it. It will pick up the heat from it. I
think firing pins need about 800F-900F. I think this is just after
brown to a gray. You will see some old time firing pins a flame or
oxide blue. They harden and temper them, then repolish and heat
again till it turn blue (lower temp). This heating isn't hot enough
to affect the previous tempering. Tom (15749) |
| I keep remembering
stuff. To temper springs and most likely firing pins, make a holder
for some lead. After hardening the piece, put it on a piece of wire.
Heat the lead till oil will flash flame on it. This should be around
800to900F. This is if you do not have access to a heating oven. Dip
the part into the heated lead for a determined time that corresponds
to the size of the part. For a large sidelock spring about 10-15
minutes. I would say 5-10 minutes for a firing pin. More time does
not hurt the part. It will only get so hot. Tom (15750) |
| Ralph; Having done
a little gunsmithing in the past, I would use O1 oil hardening drill
rod. This should be about 1% carbon. Machine the part to where you
want it, heat it to cherry red where it looses it's magnetism,
plunge in ordinary automotive oil. Then polish it, temper to a deep
straw, and plunge in oil again to stop the process. You can get O1
drill rod from Enco, J L Supply, MSC and just about any industrial
supplier. Or if you have a Brownell's catalog, you can order it from
them. Perk (15754) |
| 304L stainless
|
| Does
anyone know of a site or have any first hand experience machining
304L stainless steel. I am going to be cutting and grinding 304 soon
and will appreciate any suggestions. Mike
(17330) |
| 304 is hard and
nasty stuff. Its kind of like 4140 or 4130 at 40 to 50 RC. It will
eat most t15 or better normal cutters for lunch. Using a micro grain
C6 cutoff blade on 303s the blade needed to be sharpened ever 72
hours at a average. With 304 it needed to be sharpened every hour
and we could no longer run the machine unattended 24-7 as we had
done with 303. Inserts TPG222 inserts that lasted 48 hours or more
on 303 needed changing from an hour to hour and a half at the most.
Nasty stuff but some customers want it because it doesn't oxidize
like 303 does until they get the cost sheets for machining the
stuff. Oh, by the way did I say its nasty stuff that makes you
appreciate 17-4, 416 and some other nicer stuff like that. JWE (17332) |
| Its the easiest
stainless to machine, its called free machining because it contains
lead. Somewhat easier to machine than 302 and doesn't get gummy.
JP (17333) |
| I just looked it
up, I was thinking of a different alloy stainless. (17334) |
| When
cutting SS you have to slow your cutting speed way down. If you are
trying to cut it with a band saw your slowest speed is way too fast.
I worked in the food industry for 5 yrs done a lot of 304 and 318
SS. Used a old marvel draw saw with a coarse toothed hacksaw blade
and it would cut through SS tube like a hot knife through butter.
Same with drilling, run bit real slow and you can drill all day with
the same bit. I could drive electricians nuts, they were throwing
drill bits away as fast as they could put them in their drill
motors. Get your bit where you want the hole lean on the motor and
just bump the triger. The bit will melt through the SS. Here in my
shop I have a old champion flat belt driven drillpress with a back
gear in it. When drilling SS or hard steel I put the drill press in
backgear and you can watch the bit turn. It drills right on through
no problem. Like the tread that was running about the young and old.
I'm older and just passing on what I have found out over the years,
and what was passed down to me from old men years ago. Duane (17335) |
| The first
plunge into any piece of SS is always a bit of a tense moment. I
often don't even know what series of SS I'm dealing with, only that its
SS. The slow speed heavy feed always gets me through. Whether I'm
drilling a piece of machinery at work, with a drill motor, or
machining a piece of scrounged scrap on my lathe. RC (17337) |
| Bolts & Steel
supply for central NJ |
| Can anyone
suggest a good place to get raw materials, bar, angle, bolts etc
near Hillsborough NJ? I know further north in Denvill there is
Schaffers supply for general hardware. Are there any lathe / metal
working tool suppliers around ? Right now I especially want to find
thin wall tube 3-1/2" in diameter. I need to finish fabricating the
air intake on a V8 Datsun 240z conversion. Any leads of sensibly
priced 90 degree rubber bends would be handy too, I have seen
expensive silicone ones for turbo installs that cost $60 each! right
now I have used painted drain pipe, but it just doesn't quite have
the cachet I'd like. I did find some stainless steel on the web but
it was not cheep and shipping etc made it hard to justify for 2 feet
of pipe. The pictures of the lathe I picked up last weekend are at
http://www.holmesfamily.ws/lathe/index.htm Mike
(20073) |
| This place is the
best even though it is a ride to Glassboro, NJ. Plan a full day.
Leave EARLY. You will be there until closing at 5 PM. It is about 20
minutes off of Turnpike Exit No. 3. Take Rt. 168 south to Rt. 42
south to the AC Expressway. Exit at the first exit. Turn right, and
follow the road to FAzzio's yard. Prepare yourself for major schwing
time when you see the epics. Be sure to explore all the links. I
have bought all kinds of metal from these folks in person and by
UPS. I have always received fine service, fair prices and a
reasonably dependable turnaround time. All ferrous hardware is $1.00
per POUND. Remember THAT next time you go to HD or LOWE'S and spend
$1.00 for 7 fasteners! The link:
http://www.josephfazzioinc.com/
Matt (20076) |
| Mike, That lathe
looks great. I boxed up your chuck today and will send it to you
Monday. That rear pulley looks a bit large but if it works that's
great. Do you have the belt for the cone pulleys? Paul (20078) |
| Try this place
http://www.shapirosupply.com/index.htm . I've bought steel from them
in the past and they were great.(20087) |
| As luck
would have it, I have a friend who lives just down the road from
there, I will have to go visit him. Mike (20149) |
| I didn't
know there were different sizes, what size is a normal one ? Yes,
but it looks like the moths have been at it :-) I think one of the
big suppliers sell them though, I need to get some actual bits too,
and then make a stand, I was going to weld up some very large cross
section square tube to make a simple frame and then put a thick
plywood table on top.
(20150) |
| Square Head
Bolts |
| I'm looking for
a source for the square-head bolts with the shoulder that are
commonly used on the SB lathes for clamping parts such as the saddle
lock, taper attachment locks, etc. Doing a Google, I can't even find
what these kind of bolts are called. MSC and McMaster-Carr don't
carry them. Thought I'd give the collective wisdom a try before I
called Plaza Machinery. Ed (20224) |
| Sounds like you
could make a couple. gregg (20225) |
| Dog
Point with Shoulder-Square Head Set Screws |
| Boy those are
pricey. Looks like they start at $17 each from McMaster. (20231) |
| Ed; Between my 9"
SB and my 10L, I think I have made about a half a dozen of these.
It's a fairly easy project. The shank is turned and threaded, then
the head is left as stepped affair with two diameters. The smaller
diameter is on the end is milled square for the wrench, while the
larger diameter is lathe filed to a nice contour, leaving the bottom
(bearing surface)flat. A couple can be done as a simple evening
project. Perk (20234) |
| I have made various kinds of nut, bolts,
and other fasteners but I was hoping I could get these at a
reasonable price. Like you suggest, Perk, I'll spend an evening
making up a few of each size. I suppose if I use drill rod, I could
try to harden just the square head so it doesn't deform from the
wrench, leaving the shank more elastic so it doesn't get brittle.
That'll be an interesting endeavor. Just happen to have a whole box
full of different sizes of drill rod. Ed (20236) |
| One big advantage
of 4 sided fasteners over 6 is that they're much less prone to round
over. File your wrench nice and square, then make the heads to
match. No need to harden, methinks. Alan (20242) |
| Had to make
several square heads. In most cases I was able to have or find a
broken head. One I drilled smaller diameter into head and found
black Allen headed cap screw and cut head off and turned a nipple
which I coated with LOCKTITE and pressed into drilled hole. Worked
but not good -as a drilled hole is not neat enough to use for a
press fit. Bore the hole if it is large enough to get the boring bar
into the drilled hole. Another I held square head in 4-jaw chuck and
drilled the small (7/32) as I recall hole in the square head bolt
with tail stock drill and the turned a nipple on a good bolt with
its head cut off -turned so had a 0.001 between OD and ID or so
clearance for braze material to suck up into the joint when it is
heated. then coated with brazing flux- then assembled in lath chuck
and tail stock drill chuck to hold while I heated and brazed which
now looks like an original carriage lock. I vote for this method if
you have the broken head. Darrell (20246) |
| What Is This
Metal Used For? |
| I
have come across a short rod (1,25" x 13") of a bronze type of metal
with "Bearium" writen on it. I'm assuming it's a bearing material of
course. It doesn't look the same as some bronze rod I have that has
an oily feel and I'm sure is for sleeve bearings. Does anyone
recognize the name? What would I use it for in the home shop? Tom
|
| Here's the
whole Bearium story.
http://www.metaltekint.com/Bearium/ Bob |
| There are many
bronze alloys and bearing bronze alloys. 13" is the stocked length
sold at bearing stores. If the surface is not porous looking,
although it may be rough, it will be solid bearing bronze of tin of
aluminum alloy. The "oily" stuff is "oilite" (R) sintered bronze
bushings. It can be had in sticks and plates. Use very sharp edged
tools to machine. RichD |
| Bob, I didn't even
think to do a Google search. I thought I was dealing with a type of
metal and not a made product. It looks like I should save this for
that special project. Thanks for doing the search for me, I'll try
doing my own next time g Tom |
| Rich. I was
wondering the best way to machine it. Tom |
| Source for
Wrought Iron |
| I'm looking for a source for wrought iron to build
some ornamental iron work. Any ideas? If no wrought iron is
available at a reasonable price I'll use locally available mild
steel, probably a better choice anyway. I also want some steel
balls ( insert desired pun here!!) for the same ornamental work.
What I'm looking for would be about 3 or 4 inches in diameter 1 - 1
1/2 inches diameter. It is for decorative work so I'd like them to
be hollow (again, insert pun here) so as to be not too heavy. I'm
not sure, but I think the hollow balls of any material will be hard
to find.
Rick
(22478) |
| Good luck finding
it, where are you located? The 'wrought iron' decorative objects
commonly available here are actually A36 steel. For the spherical
objects you quest try a place that deals with pipe handrails. The
steel supplier I deal with has quite a few different clamps and end
pieces for making pipe racks and railings. JP (22481) |
| I don't
know if they can/will help, but there is a place right around the
corner from me that does ornamental iron work, and they might be
able to guide you. Steel Heart 208 W. Front St. Harvard, Ill. 60033
Contact: Gretchen Peczkowski Phone: 815-943-3465 Fax: 815-943-3467
- Scott Logan (22482) |
| Rick, come
on over to the wrought iron group I co mod.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ornamentiron/
if this link doesn't work send me an email
aametalmaster@y... Wrought iron is my little business on the side. Bob (22485) |
| Look at
http://www.hooverfence.com/ornamental/postcaps/bc1.htm
This is
just one of many sources for ornamental iron stuff. Do a Google
search for "ornamental iron parts". Mario (22510) |
| That's right up the
road from me, that's where I used to buy my parts. Bob (22511) |
| Rick, Today most
people do not realize that there is a difference between wrought
iron and mild steel. Too often the term wrought iron is used as a
description for railing and architectural trim, rather than a
material. Even after the availability of cheaper and stronger steel,
wrought iron was often used because of its corrosion and fatigue
resistant properties when compared mild steels. The production of
true wrought iron ended in this country with the closing of the A.
M. Beyers Company of Pittsburg Pennsylvania in the late 1950's. It
was available from England, and supposedly from India (very
questionable quality) for many years (at least into the early
1970's), but I do not believe there is a current source. Look around
your area for an old house with a wrought iron fence in disrepair
they would like to get rid of. There are more of them than you might
think, as true wrought iron is hard to repair with modern methods if
one isn't familiar with the material. It does not cut well with an
oxy-fuel torch, and arc welding requires a different technique than
steel for good results. Old bridges, old railroad equipment and old
piping are also a good source. Look for black rust not black paint.
Black rust that protects the underlying material is one of the
hallmarks of true wrought iron. A civil war iron clad really was an
iron clad. In fact ships, locomotives, railroad rail, and
practically everything else that was ferrous and not cast in that
era and on until the 1890's was wrought iron. Rich (22516) |
|
While
visiting a friend last Saturday I saw an old wagon tire, (i.e., the
steel band on a wagon wheel) lying on the ground. It was split along
the side in some places revealing the grain - wrought iron.
Greg (23888) |
| I used to be a
wheelwright and carriage builder in my working days. It's true that
almost all OLD cart/wagon tyres (English spelling) were made from
wrought iron, but from earlish in the 20th C, over here at least,
they began to use steel. The way to tell the difference is to look
for the so called "shut" joint, which was fire welded (sweated)
together...if joined like that it will be wrought iron. An arc or
gas weld means the material is almost certainly steel. Len
(23893) |
| Interesting info.
I've noticed tires which are still lying around my place which have
what I would call a lap joint. The edges are feathered and forge
welded. I think that's what you are referring to. Stuff does seem to
last forever, tho. The tires here have been outside since about two
days after God created the universe and they still haven't rusted
away. I don't make knives, but it seems wrought iron would be great
for them. Greg (23894) |
| I'll bet it
wouldn't hold an edge. I also seem to remember that the ductility
(flexibility) is not so great. (23895) |
| Yeah, that's the
joint I mean. feathered out about 15 or 16 times the thickness was
the old rule, so a 1/4" thick tyre would be feathered off about 4",
and the two ends brought to weld heat and hammered together. On the
knife query. I had a leather strap splitter on which the cutting
blade broke in half, and I made a replacement from an old file. Once
ground and honed, it rarely needed sharpening. Not my idea, many
blacksmiths here made bill hooks (sort of like a broad knife-like
chopper, with a curved over hooked end) from used shoeing rasps. Old
fellas I've talked to reckoned this was the best steel for cutting
instruments of all kinds, and usually free! Might be worth a try for
a knife? Len (23897) |
| A couple of smiths
up here make knives. They hammer out the steel, fold it back over
and hammer it out again many times. They are real finicky in the
fire quality and heat. When they are done, and it is a lengthy
process, you can hack apart a steel 55 gallon drum with a sword and
not have a nick in the blade They also don't go cheap either.
JP (23902) |
| Not much by way of
experience here, but, from what I have read heard an excellent
material for knives edge tools in general is a sandwich of wrought
iron for toughness steel for edge holding characteristics forged
together. Old time smiths probably used this method because steel was
very expensive relative to wrought which was mostly dug out of the
bog and sometimes referred to as bog iron. joe (23904) |
| When they do this,
they are orienting the steel grain structure to best resist the
cutting forces. The higher level of working at the edge give a finer
grain for better toughness. The heat has to be right. Too cold and
you overwork the material, making it brittle. Too hot and the grain
can realign, losing all the work you've done. The steel is called
damascus after the town Damascus in Syria. The local iron had
impurities that limited how hot it could be when worked. By
coincidence, the working temp band was the right temp to manipulate
the grain structure. What was originally thought to be superior
steel was actually poor steel better processed. Bill
E (23908) |
| Dura-Bar / MLA
Faceplate |
| C.I. is wonderful,
but messy to machine. Offering small chunks of Dura-Bar would be a
great resource for the group. I can see using it for face-plates,
backing-plates, handwheels, flywheels, pulleys. Of course it would
have to be worth everyone's while -- cost effective for hobbyists,
and profitable for Scott (or whoever) to sell. At 0.26 pounds per
cubic inch, shipping raw chunks of metal is gunna cost, I'll bet.
Rough calc for a 9" dia, 1.5" thick round is about 25 pounds if my
math is right! Please do look into this, Scott, and let the group
know if it might work out. Paul H (23307) |
| Gotta relate a
story. I still laugh at it. When I was about 19, I worked in a shop
in Trenton NJ, Horvath Tool or some such. Anyway, we were making a
bunch of cast iron rings. about 24 dia, 24 high, hollow and tapered
like stepped funnels. I think these were to hold screens for a
filter or something. I was doing the OD on a vertical boring
machine and the guy on the other machine was doing the ID. Funny
guy. First time I had worked with a black man and based on him, I
couldn't see why people were racist... anyway... Cast iron is dusty,
dusty stuff. We got covered with the dust. Lunch rolled around and
we went to wash up. He starts washing and then starts acting all
nervous and jumpy.. " ah....ah.. it's coming off !.... there gonna
make me sit in the front of the bus !..." OK, it make ME laugh
anyway. Dave
(23309) |
| Paul, I'm still
working on some prices for the larger sizes, but I can give you
something to mull over. I should have pricing on 9" slugs soon. The
weight on 9" round is approx 18 pounds per inch. We use 6-1/2 Dia
Round G2 DuraBar, saw cut 1-3/8" long for the chuck backs for the
Logan Lathes. If anyone wants them, the price is $24 each. Shipping
weight is approx 15 pounds each, and we can ship UPS anywhere. I do
not have these on our online store, so if anyone wants to order,
call, email, fax etc. Reference our Part Number CIR-20801. - Scott
S. Logan (23311) |
| USPS will ship up
to 70 lbs by priority mail to US address for $7.70 if it will fit in
one of two sized boxes as follows. . Ship Priority Mail Flat Rate
Boxes for only $7.70. . The inside dimensions for the two boxes
available are 11" x 8.5" x 5.5" and 13.625" x 11.875" x 3.375".
That's a pretty good chunk of Cast Iron. John (23314) |
| About shipping, I
ship my files to Boggs tool in CA for sharpening. The amount of
stuff you can fit into the priority flat rate envelope is amazing.
The postal workers usually give me funny looks. $3.85 USD if it fits
into the envelope. if it BR 5.5" BR Mike
(23316) |
| Based on a
request from Bob, I have prices for the 9" Dura-Bar. One piece, 9"
Dia., 2" Lg., price is $65.95. If one individual needs or wants 5 or
more pieces, the price is $47.60. Note that these are approx 35
pounds EACH. Delivery should be less than a week for any of the
sizes quoted so far. I will be placing an order next week for some
material, so if anyone wants to place an order for these sizes or
something else, please let me know ASAP. Scott (23319) |
| One more comment- A
"few" years ago, I worked for a small medical company that made,
among other things, halo braces for broken necks and meters that
monitored blood flow in reattached body parts (fingers, arms, etc.
As you can imagine, these devices needed to be get to the hospital
fairly quickly. We never used USPS because it was a lot more work
for us. A company that is willing to ship USPS is really doing you a
favor, in my opinion. At the time, I drove a bright yellow Dodge
Charger 440 Magnum with black stripes and would occasionally push
the speed limit on local deliveries. Never got pulled over but
always wondered what the police would do if you were delivering an
emergency medical device. I started at this company as a machinist.
The halo braces were first made out of Delrin, stainless, and
aluminum with helicoils. At the end of a "delrin" day, I would have
a pile of shavings as tall as the mill table. The rings around the
head were made from 1/4 by 3/4 6061 aluminum. I would round the
edges on the mill then bend the hoops around wood forms. They were
sent out for heliarc welding than 20 holes were drilled and
helicoiled 1/4-28- up to 1000 helicoils a day. Later we converted
the ring to carbon fiber reinforced epoxy and the hardware to
titanium. These we drilled and tapped directly. A carbide tap would
do about 2 rings before it was too dull. When I left, we were
throwing away 30 taps a day. We tried TiN but the issue wasn't
hardness, the material was abrasive and the Tin would be gone in a
few holes. We used graphite because it wouldn't heat up or spark in
a magnetic resonance imaging machine. The carbon fiber had enough
resistance to not heat themselves but conducted enough to keep the
titanium pins screwed into your skull from developing a charge. If
you are interested, there is one of the braces for sale on E-bay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=19264item=5545392354rd=1ssPageName=WDVW A patent on an earlier design
is here that gives some background:
http://freepatentsonline.com/4541421.html
They used to go for $1200 new so that is quite a deal ;-) This one
is missing the headpins but I imagine they didn't clean up too well.
Lathe content- the carbon fiber rings were made by winding
continuous carbon fibers "wet" on aluminum mandrels. We used an old
Hendy gearhead lathe to spin the mandrels. After curing, we cut the
back section out to allow surgical access. We used one of those
sub-$200 cutoff saws and threw them away every few months. Kinda
wish I'd kept one now. Bill
(23350) |
| Tuflok Plastic
Rivets |
| I'm looking for a retail source of regular
and screw-type Tuflok plastic rivets. These rivets are reusable
rivets; regular Tuflok's are push/pull insertion and removal,
whereas the screw-type push in, but screw out.
http://www.itw-fastex.com/catalog/004.php
http://www.itw-fastex.com/catalog/005.php I've found many companies
that sell them wholesale or in large quantities ($100 minimum, etc),
but I'm looking for much small quantities. Dave
(23753) |
| Have you checked
McMaster? They have just about everything. I think their slogan
should be "If we don't have it - you don't need it". Alex
(23754) |
| Dave, Most
automotive supply houses sell them. Jap cars use them by the
bucket full. Sometimes they are in the hardware section, sometimes
in the "Help" section- the rows of funky parts on red cardboard
backs. Our local Pep Boys had the best selection I found. The aren't
cheap. Bill
(23756) |
| Source for
Copper Sheet |
| Is there a
source for copper sheet in Northern New Jersey? I am planning a
project similar to Norm Abram's (New Yankee Workshop) gardener's dry
sink. I am sizing up the job, getting a materials list, and I want
to know if I can get the copper locally.
George (23898) |
| Check out roofing
contractors. They use copper for flashing on high end jobs. Glen
(23899) |
| I have bought
copper flashing at Home Depot. JP (23903) |
| US equivalent
to PGMS BMS? |
| Many UK plans call
for PGMS, precision ground mild steel, and BMS, bright mild steel.
Enquiries at the local stockists just get me blank looks. Are there
US equivalents? Bernard R (25038) |
| PGMS =
polished ground mild steel. A US manf designation. not available
from all distributors BMS = bright mild steel = CRS = cold rolled
steel. Pickeled and cold finished. Alloy 1018, etc HRS = hot rolled
steel = as rolled, with black scale, not pickled. Alloy 1018, A36,
etc RichD (25039) |
| Rich, Isn't PGMS
equivalent to drill rod here? George (25040) |
| PGMS
might be replaced by Ground and Polished steel, which is commonly
AISI 1215. BMS is usually compared to AISI 1215 or 12L14. FWIW,
Silver Steel is Drill Rod. - Scott S. Logan (25041) |
| George, More
correctly: PGMS = GPMS (US) Ground polished mild steel and other
alloys Silver Steel = Drill Rod (US) annealed plain high carbon tool
steel rounds. (25045) |
| The Model Engineers
Handbook is the de facto standard for all UK HSMs, in it is the
reference to Bright Drawn Steel. The following is the relevant
chapter. "The majority of model engineers purchase their supplies
the the bright drawn condition. In this state the steel has very
different properties from those listed in the reference books where
the material is usually in the 'hot rolled' or 'normalized' state.
The effect of bright drawing whether from the hot rolled or
normalized bar is to reduce the ductility - often quite severely -
and to increase the Ultimate and Yield strength of the steel. The
effect is greater in the smaller sections. In all cases where
ductility is important, and especially when any cold bending is to
carried out, it is recommended either that 'black' bar be used,
(machined to size if need be) or that the work be annealed before
forming." Thanks to all those who responded to the earlier post.
Bernard R (25059) |
