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Lathe - Micrometer/Carriage stop

 
 

 

 
 
Carriage lock info needed (May 18, 2001) Micrometer end stop usage (Jun 10, 2003)
Carriage Stop Designs Solicited (Feb 20, 2002) 9"/10K SB Thread Stop Construction (Sep 11, 2003)
Please ID this carriage stop (Feb 27, 2002) Help Identifying Micrometer Stop (Dec 3, 2003)
Bed Mounting bracket for carriage stop (Jul 2, 2002) Micrometer carriage stop identification (Mar 2, 2004)
Micrometer stop (newbie) (Jan 3, 2003) Carriage Stop Question (May 27, 2004)
Logan, Sheldon, or SB mic carriage stop? (Jan 11, 2003) 10L Carriage Stops (Dec 17, 2004)
Is there a Carriage lock on a 9" workshop? (Feb 16, 2003) Heavy 10 carriage stop (Dec 22, 2004)
 
Carriage lock info needed
I realize that I am missing the carriage lock to my apron/saddle. From the parts book, I think I need 28 PT210NK2 Lack Screw 29 AS62 NK2 Lack can someone who has a lack confirm this? I am tempted to simply make one. If you could also provide info on how the stock one works and/or dimensions of part I would greatly appreciate it. dennis (659)
It's just a little roughly square piece with either a step milled on it or a pin attached (I forget which) which is pulled up against the bottom of the front way and saddle by a screw that goes down though the hole in the front top of the saddle. Should not be too hard to make one that fits. Stock screw has the typical SB square head for the little wrench that comes with the machine. Which size lathe is this for? Chris (662)
Who just posted the pic's of the lathe ? maybe they can snap a shot of the lock and post it. (unless that was you ?) Dave (663)
Its for a 9" Model A, Under Mount Drive. Unit Code stamp on the saddle are "S-102NK Y21 C" The part Numbers in my book are incorrect, CE3455. It lists it on page 17 as #35: Eng. Saddle Assy. The part numbers and descriptions I got were from another website, I cant remember which. (John Wassers's perhaps) are there dowel pins or similar that keep it aligned? dennis (664)
The saddle lock can't be removed without partially removing the apron due to a clearance issue, but I think this should be enough information to fabricate one. The following is from a 9" model C (plain apron) but if memory serves my 13" SB (which is equivalent to the 9" model A, feature wise) is about the same. The lock is a rectangle 1/2" high cut to fit between the right top corner of the apron and the front of the feed race. It has a pin on the right side, probably 3/16" or 1/4" in diameter which rubs on the front of the way. On the left side (towards the center of the apron) it is lifted towards the saddle by a hole threaded for a 5/16-18 bolt. The bolt measures about 2.6" long 2" not counting the head, with the about 1" of the length threaded. The head is 3/8" square to match the supplied wrench. Hope you can make one from that, Chris (665)
Further investigation reveals that the carriage lock is not simply rectangular. Rather the right front corner is notched away. This leaves a tab on the left side which fits a pocket on the apron, and is what prevents removing it without taking the apron most of the way off. ASCII art is always risky, but here goes _________ | | Where T is the 5/16-18 hole and P is the pin | T _P_| |___| -- Chris (666)
Henry, I think I promised you info on the carriage lock about a month ago. I'm glad you were able to get it in the mean time. I have yet to tear down the carriage and apron -- sorry. I still have that little piece I promised you that looks like it might be a carriage lock off a 9" but I didn't want to send it too you until I was sure of what it was. It's still yours if you need it and if I can determine if it is in fact a carriage lock off a 9" SB. Paul R. (668)
Henry, Paul et al: yes I would still like a picture, dimensions and/or drawings of the carriage lock. I would ideally like to fabricate the part as much as possible before taking the apron apart. dennis (669)
Carriage Stop Designs Solicited
I need to make a new carriage stop for my 9" SB and thought I'd see if anybody has any designs they'd like to share. My plan is to make use of a micrometer head I happen to have available. I've reviewed the designs in the HSM Projects and Metalworking books and will probably to some sort of hybrid clamping arrangement based on the published designs. Paul R. (3334)
Every time I see the price of a SB micrometer carriage stop I think about building one out of an old micrometer myself, it can't be that hard. Randy (3340)
Please ID this carriage stop
Could anyone of you look at the photo links below * picture no longer available* and tell me what lathe this carriage stop was made for? I have been using it on my South Bend Heavy-10 (10L) but the screw does not hit the pad on the carriage. It works, but I believe it was built for an 8 inch, 9 inch, or light 10 (10K) lathe?? The distance from the center of the top of the "V" to the center of the stop screw is 1-1/4 inch, the length of the stop screw is about 4-3/16 inch, the length of V-way is about 2.0 inch, and the dial moves the stop screw .125 inch per dial revolution. (3424)
I can't tell you what it's for, but I can tell you what it isn't for. It's not for a 10K, so likely it isn't for the 9" either. The micrometer carriage stop for my 10K has the dial mounted in a vertical slot in the center of the body, and the threads for the non-rotating spindle are never exposed. Perhaps it belongs to a different make or a clone. Raymond (3438)
The one thing that can be determined from those pictures is that that stop is fairly old. Look at the head of the setscrew, it was carefully finished ,the brass screw head is also an old style. Scott Logan is probably the man who can ID the thing. It doesn't match any catalog pics that I have seen. RC (3440)
The micrometer stop clamps onto the front vee way. The carriage bumps against it as you move it to the left. You can use is with a clutch-engaged powerfeed, as long as you don't tighten the clutch too much. Jon (3777)
Bed Mounting bracket for carriage stop
Where does this mount on a Heavy 10? Is it to allow the Micrometer carriage stop to be placed closer to the headstock? These brackets seem to have 5 holes in them. What are the holes for? George (4901)
George, It is mounted on the bed, "V" up and out, using the two holes found on the bed between the headstock and the gearbox. Most heavy 10's have these holes. One can then mount the Micrometer Carriage Stop, without base plate, on the "V" of the bracket to provide a stop when doing collet work, or anything else close to the headstock. The three, threaded holes provide some adjustment range to position the stop for your work. Joe (4913)
Joe, Great description. Great picture. I've been trying to figure out how to design an adapter (and the micrometer stop) for my 9" SBL but I didn't get how the stop would avoid the QC gearbox. I've seen the pieces before, but you pulled it together for me. I didn't know that you would take off the clamp to bolt the stop to the adapter plate. Quite simple once you see it. Paul (4915)
I've just acquired one of these beauties for my Heavy 10. Err. . . where does it mount? It appears to mount near the headstock with two screws into the V- ways. If so, do you remove the bracket from the bottom and screw the carriage stop into one of the three screws? My carriage stop screw doesn't fit those three holes, but my screw might not be original. Also, what is the purpose of the ground flat then? George (5039)
Joe, Thank you so much! Very appreciated. I did guess right. Wonder why they have that ground flat part though? Did they cut up reject lathe beds for them? George (5053)
Micrometer stop (newbie)
I have a micrometer stop and don't know what size lathe it fits. How can I find out? It measures 1.875 from vee to centerline of shaft. Will this fit a 13" sbl? (8457)
If this is a SB micro-stop, it should have numbers/letters on both the main cylinder and the clamping plate. Post these and I will reply with the lathe it is made for. Bill (8458)
Look over the carriage stop and see if you can find the Unit Code. It should be on the left hand side, on the round cover plate. The last letter indicates the size lathe it fits. Codes like "MCS 100 T", the "T" is for thirteen inch lathes. Other suffix codes are: "N" - nine inch, "K" - 10K, "R" - Heavy Ten, "F" - 14 1/2 inch, "H" - sixteen inch. I hope this information helps. Webb (8459)
There also is a 1200 rt3 on stop and 1201r2 on btm clamping piece. (8461)
It sound like your Carriage Stop is for a "Heavy Ten." Webb (8465)
Logan, Sheldon, or SB mic carriage stop?
I have a carriage stop that came w/ my SB 10L, but it does not hit the "pad" on the carriage as a proper carriage stop should. I have installed this carriage stop on a friends SB 10K and it fits perfect. Snug to the ways and hits right on the carriage "pad". But I don't believe it is a SB carriage stop. A person told me it may be a Logan or Sheldon carriage stop. Quality and fit and finish is very nice as is typical of American made components. Even though it didn't hit the pad on my 10L I have used it for the past 15 years and it has worked flawlessly and consistently. I now have a proper fitting stop for my 10L now and wish to sell it but I would like to identify its maker before it goes up for sale. Mark (8639)
Nope, not a Logan. Scott Logan (8640)
Thanks Scott. Is anyone aware of a Sheldon lathe forum or listserve where I might ask of its origin? (8641)
Mark, the Sheldon group is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sheldonlathe/ Johnny (8646)
I don't think its a south bend either. They are a cylindrical form, from what I have seen. I have seen that stop before in my lathe surfing, but I don't know where. By the way a south bend stop for the 9 10k fits on the Logan 9b.It wont go up past the gearbox on the Logan, but it does fit the bed. RC (8666)
Is there a Carriage lock on a 9" workshop?
I have a 9" model C. Is there supposed to be a carriage lock on this model? There's a hole on the right side of the carriage just in front of the bed that looks like it could maybe be for a clamp or something. Just seems like there should be a way to lock the carriage in place for facing/parting. Mark (9343)
28 PT210NK2 Lock Screw 29 AS62 NK2 Lock Nothing fancy, a piece of plate and a screw would do since you have the hole. Okey (9347)
Mark; Yes, there should be, the two parts (bolt and clamp block) are missing on many old lathes. I need to make the clamp and a nice square head bolt for my SB9 as well. As you figured, it mounts in the open hole directly behind the right hand machine screw that secures the apron to the carriage. Stan (9348)
These come up occasionally on ebay. I've got a good picture that I downloaded to use as a pattern for the one I made. When I find it I'll post it. John (9352)
Yes, the 9" has a carriage lock. before you go looking for one, make sure yours is not loose in there and only missing the screw. you will probably need to remove the apron. search in the archives. (I feel like a bastard saying rtfm but I guess that's what I am saying). I asked the same question a couple of years ago and someone was kind enough to post a dimensioned sketch. I can't remember who it was, and I don't have the jpg anymore. Look for instructions/tips on apron removal too. It was easy enough to make with ordinary tools. I think I used a piece of a odd casting and drilled and tapped a hole. Filed a bit and got a reasonable lock. I used a regular unf hex bolt for mine. the purists will cringe, but use whatever works in the meantime. dennis
(9360)
I posted a photo of a carriage lock to the photo section. It is named SB9 Saddle Lock John (9365)
Micrometer end stop usage
I've just bought a SBL Workshop 9B, circa 1942. It is in great shape generally, slop in the compound slide but there are many suggestions from the forum of how to sort this. My question is about the micrometer end stop it came with. I think it is original, it is the exact same as the picture on page 99 of the Lindsay reprint of the 1942 edition of 'How to Run a Lathe'. The stop consists of a single knurled graduated screw with a zero mark scratched on a machined flat on the body of the stop. Now this is fine for one rotation only, normally a micrometer has series of graduations which are exposed counting the number of turns from zero. This doesn't, is there a bit missing? The knurled graduated end is fitted in a keyway is sprung loaded, so can be moved back forth by about 3/4 of an inch or so. Really dumb questions, but this is not a micrometer as I know it. I thought it was incomplete until I spotted the picture in the book. Also in the HTRAL book, many of the turning operations are illustrated using 'dogs' to drive the work between centers. The lathe came with the slotted plate shown, but no dogs. Can't find these for sale anywhere (in the UK). I'm guessing that this may no longer be the best practice for turning most people now use a chuck plus tailstock centre, is this so? Jon (11887)
You will find dogs still in common use for turning between centers which is more accurate than holding one end in a chuck. If you have trouble finding dogs you can build your own simply enough. Sooner or later you will need lathe dogs. Steven (11891)
Nothing is missing on your carriage stop. You have to count the turns yourself.50 thousandths per turn. Most of the time when you use the micrometer stop it doesn't involve that many turns. I have used it to take off amounts greater than .050 on occasion. The trickiest thing when using the micrometer stop is getting the zero point. The slop in the micrometer threads makes it difficult to work from zero on the dial. It seems to work more accurately if you lock the stop down and dial it up to the carriage, rather than setting it to zero and try to lock it down against the carriage. I parted off a few .010 washers the other day using the micrometer stop, and had only one scrap. You can make the so called clamp dog very easily from steel square stock. The notch in the center of each piece is simply filed out. As someone already said turning between centers is the most accurate. RC (11900)
9"/10K SB Thread Stop Construction
There was a 9"/10K SB thread stop recently on E-bay that I was interested in and was planning to bid on. But I started looking at it and realized that it would be very easy to construct (the one on E- bay eventually sold for $108.50!). I'm planning on using a piece of nylon plastic that I have (that machines extremely well). If anyone has an actual SB thread stop I have a few questions. What size is the gib screw that holds it to the dove tail? What size is the screw that stops the cross slide? And does the screw that stops the cross slide line up with the hole at the end of the cross slide (it doesn't look threaded, but I only took a cursory look)? I realize the size of the screws is not that important, but I'd like to use the same size as on an original part. (13891)
I would like to make one also - your idea of using nylon is great! Perhaps some kind person could post a quick sketch of the original, with dimensions? Frank (13895)
Here's an idea get an 1 inch micrometer [ about $10 bucks off eBay] and cut off the the bottom. Make a block that slides on the front V way of the lathe bed with a clamping bolt on the bottom of the bed. Attach the micrometer spindle on the block. Now you've got a really accurate threading stop. mn (13896)
The only problem is that the stop works the other way. It causes you to feed the cross slide back to the same non dimensional point every time after backing out to return to the starting point. You can do the same thing on the dial but you need to remember the setting where with the stop it is automatic. You could make these things out of a small piece of steel or aluminum for a buck or so and the set screw in the side of mine is 1/4-28 and the stop screw is a 1/4-20 just long enough to give a 1/4inch gap when it is locked into the cross slide.  JWE (13897)
David, my thread stop is in 2 peaces. there is no gib screw. There is a bolt that joins the two pieces together. The split is off set to one side of the hole that the stop bolt goes through. This tightens the stop up to the gibs, off set on the other side of the hole is a set bolt that goes down on the top of the gib housing that draws the thread stop up again the gibs. The bolt hole on the thread stop lines up with the treaded hole on the end of the cross slide. Mine fits a 21 in SB. The smaller ones may be made different. Shouldn't be to hard to make. Duane (13899)
I've attached a picture of the thread stop that was being sold on E-bay in the photo section of the forum. It has a scale under it to give a general idea of the dimensions and gives an idea of the simple construction. Seemed so simple to build that I didn't even try to bid on it (there's another one on E-bay at the moment without the stop screw with a beginning/"Buy It Now" price of $100. Dave (13900)
Don't forget the brass insert that's under the setscrew. If you run the point of a regular setscrew into that dovetail slide you will be looking for someone with scraping skills to repair it, so your cross slide will work again. RC (13958)
RC, You're right. I was thinking of that also. I'm going to try to run a parallel cut to the dovetail about 1/16" thick that I won't drill/tap. I'm hoping the plastic will be flexible enough that it will allow the set screw to push it against the dovetail. Otherwise I'll make the dovetail longer and cut a separate gib. I've ordered a 60 degree dovetail mill to try to make construction easier. Depending on how it works out, I may make some extra ones and offer them to the forum. I'm new to this and want to make sure they look "professional" vs. amateurish. Dave (13960)
I went looking for one for my heavy 10 and found 2 different clamping styles. One uses a set screw for the 9/10K and the other is 2 pieces and the screw clamps the assembly to the dovetail. Is this a workable solution for you? You could always use a brass or plastic tipped set screw to protect the ways with the first approach. JP (13961)
JP, Someone else mentioned that style. You wouldn't have a picture of the two piece style would you? I was also thinking of using a nylon screw to push against the dovetail. I'll experiment and see what works best. Dave (13962)
I think I followed the links (first one) and it was shown under the 10" accessories. nylon (13964)
Dave, The SBL exploded view shows a thicker area at the 'stop screw', this is not visible in the pictures you were sent to. Presumably this rear boss helps in keeping the part from rotating. JP (13971)
Help Identifying Micrometer Stop
I have a SB Lathe Bed Micrometer stop with the following info stamped on it. On pin end is MCS 102T and stamped in body is 1200 RT3. Can anybody tell me what size machine this fits? Ron (15326)
Heavy 10. Rigrac (15333)
My heavy 10 micrometer stop has MCS-102R on the end, not MCS-102T. For other parts, R is the normal designation for parts for the heavy 10 (except parts unique to the large spindle bore, which use an L). In a similar way, T corresponds to 13". My body casting has the same 1200-RT3 cast in, but that sounds like the casting is suitable for both the R and the T (i.e. both 10" and 13"). The body casting could well be machined differently for the 10" and the 13" applications. So my vote is that the one you have is for the 13", not the heavy 10, based on the MCS-102T. Frank (15335)
A side note. There is an adaptor for using that stop on the larger lathe. The piece has a section of prismatic way on it to clamp the carriage stop to and a clamp to fit the bed. SBL trivia 101. RC (15340)
Ron, The Micrometer Carriage Stop you are trying to identify (unit code: MCS 102T) was originally for a Thirteen inch lathe. The last letter in the unit code (i.e. the "T") identify it as for a Thirteen inch lathe. Having said that, this carriage stop is identical to the Heavy Ten unit Except for the bed clamp. The bed clamps carry the part numbers: PT1201R2 for the Heavy Ten and PT1201T2 for the Thirteen inch model respectfully. Webb (15423)
Webb, bought one on speculation hoping it would fit my 13". You have verified that I made a good investment! Ron (15424)
Micrometer carriage stop identification
I have a South Bend carriage stop that I bought for my 10L. It clamps up to the bed alright but looks to be too small in the length. It doesn't quite reach the round flat on the side of the carriage. It looks short by about a half an inch. I looked at several pictures online at the 9 inch and 10k stops but they appear different. Mine has the clamping bolt off to the left side of the knurled wheel. Anyway some help identifying it would be great. If it is for my lathe then I'm happy. The markings are as follows. Round end plate has MS-103N along with the South Bend stamp. Body has ONK2 on the bottom and BP on top. John (17540)
Any info I have has Suffix N or NK for 9" and 10K South Bends. Ron (17541)
Ron, I kind of thought it was for one of them. Only deal is the pictures that I have seen of the 9 inch stop has the knurled ring on the left side. That's facing the stop while its mounted. I don't know, I haven't seen one in person. Maybe someone with a 10k or 9 inch could help. John (17544)
My South bend parts manual shows thumbscrew for 9" and 10K on right side when standing in front of lock when mounted on lathe. It also shows thumbscrew on the right for Heavy 10"-13"-14 1/2"-16"-16/24" and 17". Knurled Adjusting Ring has knurl to left for all sizes. Is it possible someone had unit apart and installed adjusting ring backwards? I would think unit would still function as normal no matter which way Knurled Ring was installed. I can scan both items and send to you if required. Ron (17545)
Sorry, my description probably wasn't the best. Thumb screw for oil, which is knurled, is on the right as you are facing the machine. The Knurled adjuster is in the center of the body as with a heavy 10 and larger. I have seen the 9 inch with the adjuster only on the left side of the body. That is what knurled "ring" I was talking about not the oil cap. John (17547)
Carriage Stop Question
I've always wondered about the use of a carriage stop. If I'm turning towards the stop with my friction feed can I just let it run into the stop or am I just heading for a train wreck? I have a south bend 9" A. (19319)
Train wreck. (Immovable object, unstoppable force...) Your clutch, your ways, your apron gears/splines, your leadscrew, the gears upstream... (whichever yield first, probably the clutch) do not need this kind of special "honing". Think of the clutch as the clutch in a pickup truck, not an automatic transmission. Loosen the clutch and do the last .1 or so by hand. Or so Old Emmett taught me. Using two hands, you can get smooth at this. After a while , you'll appreciate why other lathes (and later SBs) have a toggle lever instead of the screw knob. Dave (19320)
You know that isn't so strange a question at all. I was actually wondering almost the same thing after my clutch saved me from a bad crash g know it isn't there to just save the gears but it sure does in a pinch. Tom (19328)
I use a dial indicator clamped to the ways. I made the bracket by hogging out a chunk of aluminum, actually I used a shaper. The bracket is simple to make, the ways are 90 degrees and have a 1/2" face. A hacksaw and file can be used to make one. Make a paper template and then cut out a 1" thick piece of Aluminum or Delrin to match it. The force against the bracket is very low, only the spring pressure and weight of the dial indicator. The SB micrometer carriage stop is intended to be run up to by hand, just like the threading stop for the crosslide. JP (19334)
Sounds like my thoughts on the process were correct. I tested the process of lightly tightening the friction screw and all went well (hand turning the spindle of course) a little more pressure on the friction nut and TRAIN WRECK! I'm going to work on my two handed shuffle. How about a one way bearing on the friction nut with a release leaver running up on the stop. JJ (19338)
10L Carriage Stops
The recent string about carriage stops prompted me to take a look at eBay where I found the following item: (dead link) The seller says it came off of a 13" lathe and clearly it must have. He indicates it might fit a 10L which got me to thinking. It may be an optical illusion because of it's overall size, but this one looks like it is narrower than a regular 10L mic stop. Then I also thought back to when I got my plain 10L stop, It had the clamp turned around and I remember reading someplace that this was the way it was used on a 13"! Any thoughts on this? Could it be narrower than a 10L stop? Would it fit a 10L? Roy (23149)
Yes it was on a 13" I was at the auction where he bought that lathe and I was the runner up bidder. It does look narrower then most I have seen. The lathes at this particular sale had some odd parts on them. This same lathe had a steady rest with it, that clearly was not correct for it. I have a feeling the auctioneer just put stuff together with what he thought looked right. (23152)
It looks just like one is got off an older 10L. It is narrower. It has been sitting on my desk for about 6 months as I keep intending to ebay it. Ed (23153)
Heavy 10 carriage stop
Wondering about a fair price for a micrometer carriage stop for a heavy 10, and if anyone is selling one? George (23334)
$100 - $125 is fair price ill sell you a micrometer stop for $100. fred (23338)
 
     
 

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