| Lathe milling (Apr 7,
2001) |
Milling adapter travel? (Oct 15, 2003) |
| Milling on the lathe (May
30, 2001) |
South Bend 7" shaper (Oct 21, 2003) |
| Milling in the lathe (Oct
17, 2001) |
Would this milling att.work on a 10K? (Oct 29, 2003) |
| Flycutters (Dec
17, 2001) |
Shaper attachment for the lathe (Dec 24, 2003) |
| Milling attachment (Mar
3, 2002) |
Grizzly mill attachment (Dec 25, 2003) |
| How Do I Mill with a 9" Lathe?
(Jul 19, 2002) |
Milling attachment (Feb 11, 2004) |
| SB Lathe Milling Attachment
(Aug 29, 2002) |
Milling attachments (Apr 5, 2004) |
| Potts milling (Oct 30,
2002) |
Holding end mills (Apr 7, 2004) |
| Potts attachment (Nov 29,
2002) |
Milling attachment (Apr 17, 2004) |
| Milling attachment options?
(Dec 11, 2002) |
Milling attachment (Jul 16, 2004) |
| Milling attachment (Dec
30, 2002) |
Milling on the lathe (Jul 17, 2004) |
| Spindle adaptor holding
milling cutters? (Mar 12, 2003) |
How
do you hold a milling cutter? (Nov 22, 2004) |
| 9" vs. Heavy 10 Milling
Attachments? (Mar 20, 2003) |
End
mills (Nov 23, 2004) |
| Milling in a Lathe (Apr
26, 2003) |
Safe milling on the lathe
(Dec 3, 2004) |
| Endmill holders (Apr 29,
2003) |
End Mill Sizes (Dec 11,
2004) |
| Old milling table? (Jun
20, 2003) |
South Bend Mills? (Dec
31, 2004) |
| Milling attachment (Aug
27, 2003) |
End mill (Mar 15, 2005) |
| SB 9" milling attachment
(Oct 1, 2003) |
|
| |
| Lathe milling |
| Paul, do you
have any pictures of your milling set up? my 9" doesn't have a
collet, but It does have a #3MT so I was thinking of putting in an
end mill holder for some of the operations. Dave (491) |
| All I've got so far is a 3/8"
to #3MT end-mill holder and some end mills. No milling adapter yet.
I do use a Taig milling adapter on my 7x10, though. For now I just
jig up something to hold the work piece on the compound. I'm going
to try a rt. angle block to move the compound to vertical and see
how sturdy that is. Paul R. (492) |
| Milling on the lathe |
| I have a
project where I need to bore a lot of aluminum blocks in tandem
with a tube. Unfortunately, this cannot be done with the 4 jaw. Has
anyone make a milling attachment for the cross slide ? Mine is a 9"
workshop (model C) Also, any recommendations on using a boring head
in a MT3 in the headstock ? Dave (748) |
| I have always used the regular
SB one that came with mine when I got it. If you can not find an
original (There have been several on Ebay recently) get the castings
from metal lathe. They have a lot of very nice goodies in casting
form for the SB lathe. The first one I plan to get is the t-slotted
cross slide as I have wanted one of those for over 20 years since I
saw his drawings in ME.
http://www.sc-c.com/metallathe/index.html
Here is a picture of my 9" A taken while setting up the milling vise
using the face plate for reference. JWE (749) |
| That is really
a great site. It's also great that the cross slide can be supplied
finished, for those of us who don't have a mill (yet) In review, the
T slot cross slide might be all I need for my hole boring project.
With a clamping fixture and shims I could get what I need pretty
simply. Dave (751) |
| I don't know if this helps or not,
but I think South Bend shows one in " how to run a lathe" so there
might be one around. I was kind of wondering this myself, as I have
seen them advertised in a few places (Grizzly, and Brownells). Matt (762) |
| Milling in the
lathe |
| For interest of all
I have just posted some pictures I took this morning of some
different setups and tooling in use on my Model A doing facing and
milling on an adaptor to fit 3/8x3/16 material in a 3/8 square 5C
collet for a production job I am doing on the CHNC1. This adaptor
will allow easy insertion and removal of the parts in production.
JWE (1889) |
| What's the
purpose of the paper when setting up? (1894) |
| Jordan When you
drag a thin piece of paper of known thickness between the cutter and
the part or location surface you know then exactly where the cutter
is in relationship to where you want it to be. Using a known point
you can zero your dials at that point and then move directly to the
desired dimension using your dials. and then star cutting. JWE (1895) |
| I use a variation
on this, I wet the paper with spit and stick it to the surface. With
the cutter turning, I advance the part to the cutter. The cutter
will move the piece of paper off the surface. At that point, the
cutter hasn't touched the part. Paper is roughly .005 thick, so your
cutter is .005 away from the part or surface. Tom (1902) |
| Flycutters |
| Is there any reason
I could not use 1/2 shank flycutters in a collet on my lathe in
conjunction with a milling attachment I recently purchased? Tim Q (2459) |
| That should work
fine. Just don't use a drill chuck to hold it. if not a collet, use
and endmill holder. Somewhere I saw a drawing of an flycutter which
basically looked like a square boring bar that was held in place by
opposite jaws of the 4 jaw. Other two kept the bar from rotating.
dp (2462) |
| Dennis, What is
an endmill holder? - for those of us that don't own a collet set!
Bill (2465) |
| Milling
attachment |
| Has anyone ever
considered mounting a Taig milling attachment to the compound on
their lathe, I've been looking at these on the net but I've never
seen one in person. Would this work! The prices that SB milling
attachments have been fetching is scaring me. Matt (3502) |
| It would
work, but for small parts. I have looked at milling for awhile too.
I was looking at taking off the compound welding up a couple 1/2
inch plates to create a vertical surface, then using one of those HF XY tables, just the vice and upper dovetails. Much larger capacity.
I'm not sure of the quality (rigidity) of the XY table. or if there is
enough meat on the XY to remove the lower section. Dave (3507) |
| I was kind of
kicking the idea around because the Taig attachment sells for 50
bucks new (not even close to what the SB one sells for) and I'm a
tightwad. I have some other ideas in mind, including a retrofit of a
armature lathe column that I have run across, but the Taig seems
like it would be the easiest. Matt
(3510) |
| Dave and Matt The
Taig unit would be about right for a 7x10 lathe or smaller. For the
SB and other machines its size or a little larger I would recommend
the casting sets from Metal lathe. While I have never bought or used
any of them myself he has gotten rave reviews for at least 20 years
in most of the major magazines and from buyers. I have never heard
anybody put them down. And he has a friend that will do the
machining if you want but the price goes up drastically from what I
have heard. For others that want to build their own I have an
article with drawings by the great ETW from the mid 60s that can be
built from simple to complex with a dividing head and or a milling
spindle in it. This could but put up in files either on the SB group
or another one as it is a good and useful project article. JWE 3511) |
| Matt, I picked up a
Palmgren 250 milling vise off of Ebay for about $150.00. I actually
use my lathe more for milling than turning, (I should have picked up
a mill as my first machine I guess). I looked at a friends SBL
milling attachment but it did not have the capacity of the Palmgren,
nor the outrageous price tag either. I have thought about the
versatility of having a "T-slot" compound as sold in kit/casting
from Metal Lathe. I think that would be the nuts! Tim Q
(3514) |
| The other option
I'm working on, involves a spare compound [about $40 on eBay], a
gusseted angle plate from any of a number of suppliers [about $10],
some channel stock [or a small machinist's vise] with a t-nut, and a
hole-with-a-couple-plungers in the vertical leg of the angle plate
[just like are in the cross-slide to lock the compound from
rotating]. If you look closely at the OEM milling attachment, that's
basically what it is, design-wise. Overall cost is about the same as
the Taig attachment. (3515) |
| That's what I
did sort of. Actually, I turned a circular dovetailed piece to fit
the attachment in place of the compound. It sits a little low but
other than that it works ok. Taig's method of fixturing the
workpiece doesn't impress me, but the price sure is right. Someday
I'll make a spacer for under it or a t-nut to put it on the
compound, one or the other. (3516) |
| JWE, I looked into
the casting sets, because they are VERY cool (there is LOTS of cool
stuff there) , the price is right if you can do your own milling,
but if I had a milling machine I wouldn't be looking for the
attachment GG think the quote I got from them for the milling of the
T-slot cross slide was around $200, so it is kind of out of my
league right now. (I still want one of those) Going to get some spare
money soon and am thinking about getting a Taig or Sherline
mini-mill (any comments 1 way or the other?) so I may just skip the
whole idea anyway. Seems to me that someone could make some money by
machining the milling attachment casting kits and selling them on
E-bay, there seems to be plenty of interest, judging from what M.
attachments have been going for. Please post your plans, they sound
interesting. Matt (3517) |
| Matt The Sherline
is really tiny and of limited use except for very small items. The
Taig is better but still a very light machine. For my own use the
smallest production machine I would consider is the drill/mill HF
sells for $379 and some say it can be had with the right code for
$299. If that is to small the next up is the RF20 and then the RF30.
The 20 is a very nice small mill and can do about any thing you will
need to do in a hobby setup. The 30 now is a brute both in size and
capacity. I was after my boss for a year or so to get another mill
so I could do tooling work when the Bridgeport's were tied up on
production jobs. Well he bought two of them and two days later there
were production jobs on them. So I brought down my 30 for a while
and now he wont let me take it back home cause the whole shop is
using it for making various tooling bits. Lots of people will knock
the little HF drill/mill but I know several who have them and while
limited compared to a larger machine they are far more capable than
a Sherline or Taig and cheaper also.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42976
JWE (3520) |
| I did more or less
the same thing to mount a Taig headstock to my cross slide to make a
grinder attachment. The Taig headstock is just the right height to
match up with the center of the SB 9" spindle when seated flat on
the cross slide. Taig sent me a piece of the dovetail extrusion to
mount the headstock to my home made circular dovetail. A DC motor
from a tread mill from E-bay and a light dimmer switch with a full
wave rectifier completed the project. I have a Sherline lathe/mill
and a similar set up would work with the headstock from this
machine. You would have to make a block to raise the headstock 3/4"
or so to match the SB lathe spindle center height. The spindle speed
might not be high enough for grinding without the high speed pulley
option or your own custom pulleys. Glen (3531) |
| The Palmgren 150 is well suited
to a small lathe like the 9"SBL,or Logan 9B.Its not as heavy as the
250.The wrinkle is they have discontinued it, or so I heard. You might
find one N.O.S somewhere or a good used one. Give McMaster Carr a
try. RC
(3532) |
| Matt, I have a set
of the Metal Lathe mill attch. castings (about half finished), and
in his included machining guide he machines the whole thing on a 9"
SB. You need a faceplate and some sort of angle plate mounted to the
crosslide (I already have his T-slot slide), but it is possible to
do without a milling machine. I would recommend the T-slot crosslide
as a MUST have! I don't see how anyone ever got anything done
without it. You can do a lot of simple milling with just an angle
plate bolted to the crosslide. Frank (3537) |
| How Do I Mill
with a 9" Lathe? |
| Do I need some
specific accessories to mill some small parts with my lathe? I am
familiar with the desirable SB Milling Attachment (don't have it).
What else do I need to look for? Besides a Mill I mean. Can I just
chuck up a cutter and go? How does one mount a vice? I have two
tapped holes in my compound rest. (5212) |
| You've got the
idea. the milling attachment is basically a vise that mounts
vertically where the rest would normally go... it has the ability
to be raised and lowered, pivoted on the table and rotated on its
own axis, thus allowing you to position the work which is held in its
jaws and any position related to the lathe spindle... you then place
a milling cutter in the spindle [using a collet is best} and use the
carriage dial and the vise dial to move the work. (5213) |
| An interesting
source for all sorts of superbly designed, high quality 9" and 10K
accessories is Metal Lathe Accessories in Pine Grove Mills, PA.
Minor "challenge" being....they come in kits of very detailed plans
and raw castings, and you get to make them yourself. At least 15
years before I had a lathe, I built the SB milling attachment to use
on a mill-drill for turning and taper turning, exactly backwards
from it's intended use. Also built a couple of the straight edges
for scraping, and the surface plate (these have been discontinued).
Still have kits for the boring head, T-slot cross slide, T-slot face
plate, and some others. They are straight forward enjoyable
projects, and the iron castings and the plans are first class.
http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/ smt (5228) |
| SB Lathe
Milling Attachment |
| Does anyone know if this ebay item will fit my Heavy 10?
Chris
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=1760259569rd=1begin666eBayitem1760259569
(6056) |
| I am not sure, but
I know that the Heavy ten is quiet a bit different from the 9".
Clint (6057) |
| Chris, I looked at
buying one last year and remember that there is a different diameter
"cone" (I forgot the actual term) on the bottom of the base that
secures it to your compound. One fits the 9" and the other the 10". I
personally found Palmgren 250 V milling attachment better. It's
capacity is much greater and that's what I bought. You can also find
them cheaper on Ebay than an actual South Bend. This is of course
unless you want "all SB equipment". Tim Q
(6060) |
| Tim, No, I don't have a preference for the attachment to be a
SB. My preference is for it to be the most rigid and robust. Do you
find your Palmgrens to be fitting this criteria? Chris (6073) |
| Chris, I'm a novice
myself and have only worked in Aluminum so far but that said I have
found the 250 V Palmgren to work just as I needed. I didn't have a
mill (just recently purchased an old Bridgeport, refurbishing it
now) and the Palmgren did all I asked. It's not for huge projects
but has about double the capacity of the SB and I don't have to take
off my compound to use it! It uses the lantern tool post (which I
don't use for anything else, bought a Phase II tool holder) to
secure it to the compound. I cut a piece of 1/2 X 1/2' steel about 4
inches long and fit this thru the lantern tool post holder. This
steel bar clamps down on top of the two legs of the milling
attachment to secure it down. I could have purchased the SBL
attachment but was double the cost used and the capacity issue. I've
seen the Palmgren on Ebay go for anywhere from $100.00 to $175.00.
The SB's I've seen go for around $400.00!! Tim Q
(6075) |
| Tim, that seems
like an awful lot of weight and mass hanging off of a lantern tool
post. I'm surprised that rigidity is maintained. I will keep my
eye's open on ebay for the Palmgren but I think I'll fabricate a
mounting system to mount directly to the compound. By the way, I
have entertained the idea of utilizing (with modifications) that
$69.00 'Compound Slide Milling And Drilling Table' (Model#
AX201-2826) sold by Enco and MSC. It's too bad that it doesn't
rotate. Chris (6076) |
| Potts milling
|
| A) Does anyone
own/use a Potts milling attachment? B) Comments on it, do you like
its performance? limitations, irritations, recommendations etc...
C) Has anyone seen these on e bay used for sale/does anyone have one
for sale in the group? (6892) |
| The Potts
attachment is all right but I like the Westbury one better. Castings
for both are available from Working Precision Models.
http://www.wokingprecisionmodels.co.uk/
JWE (6896) |
| Potts
attachment |
| Anyone here ever
heard of a 'potts universal milling attachment' such as is offered
by working precision models?
http://www.wokingprecisionmodels.co.uk/
the darn thing has me stumped. I understand a cutter goes in the
collet, drive is applied to the big pulley, the two small pulleys
are for belt routing if needed, and the leadscrew moves the milling
head up and down the column, but just HOW the heck does the darn
thing attach to the lathe and where does it get drive from? that
wooden display base in the photo doesn't really say squat about how
it mounts. Is it meant to mount in conjunction with another
accessory? I could see how it might be for gear cutting and the like,
if you put the gear blank on an arbor between centers and attach
this doohickey to the cross slide...but then how do you accurately
index the spindle and the workpiece? I could see if it were meant to
go in place of the overarm on a small horizontal mill to turn it
into a vertical mill...or this widget and a dividing head and
tailstock all together on a t-slotted table would make a dandy
gearmaker but they specifically state it's for a lathe. I just
don't get it at all. (7629) |
| In Ancient times,
say about 1930 they used to put a long wooden pulley parallel with
the lathe say about 2 feet above the bed and running on a long
spindle supported at both ends drive things like the Potts from
that. The pulley was itself driven from either the electric motor that
drove the lathe via a second step on its pulley or a separate motor
or if really ancient the treadle that your lathe user worked to get
the lathe to go round. pp
(7634) |
| I have seen this
thing and write from memory. It is described in one of Guy Lataurd's
"Machinist Bedside Readers". From what I remember, it is
basically a
type of milling attachment that fits on the slotted cross slide of a
Myford lathe (quite British). It seems that British model engineers
have taken milling in the lathe to a high level of refinement, while
most Americans just buy a mill. When mounted to the cross slide, it
provides vertical adjustment. Horizontal adjustment is provided by
the lathe cross slide. It is a round column type of arrangement.
with a vertical lead screw and handwheel. The attachment can be use
two ways. First you can use it to hold the workpiece and run the
cutter from the lathe headstock. It can also be used to hold a small
independent milling spindle while the work is held in the chuck or
faceplate. When used this way, the Brits have power supplied to the
spindle from an overhead belt arrangement. I think the gadget was
sold as a kit with castings. I am not sure if it was ever sold as a
completed fixture. Perk (7636) |
| I can dig that. How
do you suppose they lock the spindle [either the lathe spindle or
the attachment's spindle] if that's where the workpiece goes? (7637) |
| Milling
attachment options? |
| What are
some good, inexpensive milling attachment options for a 9" Workshop?
Say $100 or under. Every now and then I need to machine something,
and I'm wondering if I'm better off getting a milling attachment for
the lathe or getting a cross slide table for my (reasonably heavy
duty) drill press. Mark (7893) |
| Mark A C note is
not likely to get you milling very well. I just responded to a
similar question on the Atlas Craftsman group. I have been all over
the board on milling. Started with a Sherline, got a milling
attachment for my 6" atlas, got a milling attachment for my 9" south
bend, got a slotted cross-slide for my 9" south bend, got a
Benchmaster horizontal mill, got an Asian mini-mill, and then got a
South Bend Heavy 10 that came with a milling attachment. Milling
attachments on a lathe just never seem to have enough movement to
make the cuts where you want them. Sometimes they work but more
often than not they don't. They have enough power and can do good
work but only if you can make the movements you want. After all my
fooling around, I would recommend an Asian mini mill. It is really a
good little machine and well sized to complement the 6 to 9 inch
lathes. They run about four to five hundred dollars and are
available from Grizzly, Micro Mark, Harbor Freight, and Homier. I
got mine from Harbor Freight for two reasons. First, the Harbor
Freight version comes with an R8 Spindle Taper. Second, I could pick
it up locally since we have a store here and save about $60 in
shipping. Between this mini mill and my horizontal mill, I seem to
have plenty of capacity, but I could get along pretty well with just
the mini mill if I had to. Perk(7895) |
| I've already
trashed one drill press that way. The quill and spindle bearings
are not designed for the side-loads milling puts on it. (7896) |
| Milling
attachment |
| Does anyone know if
the milling attachment off a 9 inch model B machine will work on a
Heavy 10 k machine? I am going to sell my model but want to keep the
milling attachment to use on my 10 inch lathe. This milling
attachment is like new and they are hard to come by! John
D.
(8359) |
| I think you may be a
bit confused. A "Heavy 10" is not the same as a "10-K". According my
1963 catalog, the same item (CL2680NKME) is used for the 9" and the
10-K. CL2680RME is for the Heavy 10. Scott
Logan (8361) |
| Thanks for the
information. I will check my part numbers. I do get confused with the
machines. I came into a lot of SBL machines and attachments and I am
trying to figure it all out. I also ran across a old SBL catalog
while looking thru information I have. This catalog looks to be from
the 60's,I have two different ones. (8363) |
| The 10k is not the
heavy ten (8366) |
| I found out for
sure I have a heavy 10!I have two, an older pedestal model and a 1960
heavy 10 that I thought was the 10k. John (8368) |
| The heavy 10
attachment has a bigger spigot on the bottom...it should be possible
to make a dual-tapered [inside and outside] split bushing to use a
9/10K attachment on a 10L cross slide.
(8372) |
| I have used-once
Taig milling attachment with the spigot on the bottom already for to
fit a 9/10K compound. since i got an SBL milling attachment it's
surplus to my needs. $60 plus shipping. lurch (8599) |
| Has anyone used a
4" Palmgren milling attachment on a 9" SB and can offer any advice/
help, or pics as to how they mounted it? Okey (8611) |
| The Palmgren
attachments, which have the two tangs sticking out the back, set up
with the two tangs on either side of the lantern toolpost, held down
by a tool bit or piece of barstock stuck through, and clamped by,
the lantern toolpost. Lurch(8613) |
| I use a Palmgren on
my 10k. I take everything off the lantern holder, put the legs of
the Palmgren over the lantern post, put a 3/8 inch tool bit thru it
and tighten up. the Palmgren is nice, but you have to be very
careful that there is no slack in any of your gibs and you can only
take baby cuts. A quick way to approximately square up the Palmgren
vise is to put a plate into the headstock spindle and push the
Palmgren vise front up to it, then clamp down on the lantern. For
most work I do, this is square enough. If you want to get real
fussy, use a dial indicator. I found that the degrees stamped into
the Palmgren are quite accurate. Nice little unit.
Frank (8615) |
| I had a 21/2"
Palmgren and it was really to big for the 9" lathe. I returned it and
got a 1 1/2" Palmgren. Its about all the 9" lathe can
handle. Unfortunately the 1 1/2 Palmgren is out of print, from what I
heard. RC (8617) |
| That really was my
concern RC. This is a brand spanking new Palmgren that came to me
from my father in law's shop when he passed away several years ago,
and has never been used. I think he may have intended to use it on
the old Hendy converted line shaft lathe that is still in the old
shop building. Doubt if I will ever get around to resuscitating that
old beast, so I was considering using this Palmgren on the SB, but
the 4" really appears to be too large for the 9"SB, hence my
original question. Anybody out there that has a SB milling
attachment and a set of collets etc that they might want to trade
for this big Palmgren? I think I have just about every every
attachment for the SB except the milling attachment, collets, and a
taper attachment. Okey
(8619) |
| Does anyone in the
group have any experience or comments on the milling attachment for
the 9" SB at
http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/index.html
? As far as I can tell from the description of the castings there,
it appears that one would need the ML-5 and the S4382A milling base,
plus the acme nut for a total of around $150 plus shipping. Just
curious if anyone has gone this route. Okey
(8672) |
| I bought a
set of the MLA castings from someone on this list and got the
leadscrew and nut from another most generous member of the list. You
only need the milling base if you also plan to mount the unit on a
T-slot cross slide. The basic milling attachment casting set mounts
in the compound spigot hole. The base plate has a spigot hole and
can be bolted down on the T-slot cross slide. I just finished my
T-slot cross slide so I guess the next project will be the base.
Glen (8676) |
| I don't
mill on a lathe, but Andys' castings and instructions are first
rate. He's one of the good guys if you choose to go this route. If
you're going to Cabin Fever Andy will be there. Stan
(8678) |
| I haven't gone this
route and it looks like a nice item. However, it isn't cheap
especially considering your time. If it is just the milling
attachment you want and not the fun of making one, I suggest a
Palmgren. I use one on my 10k and it is nice. Frank (8680) |
| Andy had an
operation Friday for a detached retina and will not be at Cabin
Fever. He is greatly disappointed about this, not the least because
many of his customers seem to only want to buy "on-site." I have
been trying to get him on the net as I think this will help his
business. I believe we will be getting there once he recovers. Kim
(8685) |
| Sorry to hear about
Andy. I always like to stop and chat with him at the shows. I can
also understand folks wanting to see what they are getting. When you
see his castings, you know just how nice they are. As for him being
online, he is.
http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/ The Milling
Attachment is shown at:
http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-5.html
Scott Logan (8688) |
| Scott: Andy has a
web site, courtesy of a friend I think, but he does not have a home
computer, cannot answer email, and cannot monitor discussion boards
such as this. Part of this is his personal resistance to
technological change. However, I think my wife and me are going to
get him fixed up to communicate electronically just as soon as he is
back on his feet. On doctor's orders, he cannot spend more than 30
minutes at a time standing up until his retina is healed. Kim
(8699) |
| Spindle
adaptor holding milling cutters? |
| I was
looking over the print for a draw bar style collet for holding
milling cutters in the lathe spindle like the one in Popular
Mechanics article July 1948 for my simplex 13"/20"x74" floor mounted
gap bed lathe (similar in design to the heavy floor mounted
SouthBend). This lathe has an open threaded nose spindle. The
spindle measures around 1 and 13/32" to 1 and 7/16" inside diameter.
According to the drawing, the milling cutter holder of the draw bar
collet is fitted to the spindle with a Morse taper shank. The one in
the drawing was designed with a #2 morse taper which according to
the article had be made for a 10" lathe. My question is does the
lathe spindle supposed to have an adaptor made with a morse taper
bore for holding such a device? If so what are the dimensions for
such an adaptor? Is there an adaptor of this type in the spindle of
heavy SouthBend lathes for holding morse taper shank tooling? The
print and Popular Mechanics article for this device can be found in
the files of the Shop Tools Yahoo Group under tooling for the lathe, MillCutterCollet.pdf. Rush (9743) |
| The way I do
it is with a Number 5 MT adapter in the spindle bore with a
fabricated drawbar tightened at the back of the spindle. Supposedly
the SB 13 with the big spindle has a proprietary taper (about 4-1/2)
but mine seems to have a taper that matches the MT5. The adapter
does stick out quite a bit. I tried one adapter that didn't have a
drawbar. DON'T DO THAT!! If you make a heavy cut, the spiral flutes
will pull the adapter right out of the spindle. I found that out the
hard way. Before I did this, I tried using end mills in my collet
holder. This didn't work; the mills would end up turning inside the
collet. I couldn't tighten them enough to prevent this. (9757) |
| 9" vs. Heavy
10 Milling Attachments? |
| Is the only
difference between the 9" Milling Attachment and the Heavy 10
Milling Attachment the size of the spigot that fits into the
compound? If I have a 9" lathe and find a 9" base, could I use the
Heavy 10 Milling Attachment?
(9836) |
| According to my
1960 SB catalog -- Milling attachments for 9 - 10K / heavy 10 vert.
feed 3" / 3" vise holds 1 1/2" / 1 3/4" jaw depth 1 3/16" / 1 5/16"
jaw width 3" vs 3 1/2" ship'g weight 13# / 25# 1960 SB price $56 /
$70 I'd bet the bases differ by a lot more than the spigot. You
could try making a new base. I always found on my 10K that the
offset between the vise and the spigot was excessive. I made a new
base from a piece of 6 x 6 x 3/4 angle and finished both faces of
the vertical leg so that the vertical slide can be mounted either
over the spigot or on the outside, as original. Works like a charm
and is much more satisfactory than using the SB offset base.
(9841) |
| No. Looking at Form 939C it gives the base for the 9" and
10K as PT825NK2 and the base for the 10L as PT825R1. The saddle
assembly for the 9" and 10K is given as AS826NK1 while that for the
10L is given as AS826R1. The slide on the saddle (called the vise)
is also differentiated. Many small hardware components are
interchangeable between the different versions but the main castings
appear to be larger for the 10L compared to those for the 9" and
10K. If I have a 9" lathe and find a 9" base, could I use the Heavy
10 Milling Attachment? I don't know how difficult it would be to
adapt the 10L components above the base to fit onto the 9"-10K base.
Anybody out there with both the smaller milling attachment and the
one for the 10L who can speak to this question? Anthony (9844) |
| Milling in a
Lathe |
| I have a 9" SB that
I've recently gotten and am having fun with. I'd like to buy a
Palmgren milling attachment (Enco has the cheapest I've found for
$192.95) for several projects I have in mind. But I'm trying to
figure out how to use the mill tools. I don't have a collet closer,
but (as you probably already know) the spindle has a 3MT. I was told
my a machinist acquaintance that the milling tools wouldn't work
well in the 3-jaw chuck as the tooling would tend to want to spin in
the chuck. So short of getting a collet closer (future purchase) is
there another alternative (maybe an adapter that will go from the
#3MT to fit the collet); or is chucking the tools in the 3-jaw
acceptable? We're strictly talking light hobby use, and I'm
definitely in the learning mode. Dave
(10469) |
| Most 3-jaw chucks
have a run out of a few thousandths and this is too much for
milling, especially in a small lathe. I have a 10k which is
basically a 9, and use a Palmgren. It works for very light cuts but
you have to be very careful that everything, including the gibs are
nice and snug. If I were you, I would get collets before the
Palmgren. Maybe someone else has specific experience with holding
end mills in a 3-jaw chuck. Frank
(10470) |
| You can buy Morse
Taper end mill holders from Enco, KBC, MS Supply even Harbor
Freight. They are bored for each individual size of end mill and are
not that expensive. I recently trued up my 3 jaw by grinding the
jaws in place and it does seem to hold the milling cutters properly.
You do have to snug up the chuck. The 4 jaw chucks usually have
textured jaws which give a better grip, but you have to use a dial
indicator to center the mill. max (10471) |
| Go with the end mill holders. Get the
kind that use a drawbar. It's really easy to make a tightening bar.
The mill holders have a set screw that retains the milling tool by
the Weldon flat; no worry about the tool or holder coming apart and
digging into the work. You also have to have the lathe tight too.
Play in the cross slide, etc. can make a mess of things if the tool
digs in. Keith
(10472) |
| Thank you for
the excellent advice. I looked in my Enco catalog and found the end
mill holders that were mentioned. I'd love to make a drawbar (plus
it would give me experience with machining threads), but I don't
have a clue what one looks like. I found some of the Enco end mill
holders that are used with a drawbar, and some can be used without
and is equipped with a tang (for 3/8" and 1/2" shank mills) and are
reasonably priced, as was mentioned in one of the replies. I'll keep
looking for a collet closer, or plans for a drawbar, but in the
meantime I'll order the morse taper end mill holder when I order the
milling attachment. When I bought the lathe, it came with what I now
assume was the initial steps in building a drawbar. Someone took a
piece of 5/8" mild steel rod about 19.75" long and started threading
the end, though they never finished. There was a dead center in the
morse taper in the spindle, so I just used the rod to pop it out.
Now I'm wondering if there was a bigger purpose in life intended for
it.
(10473) |
| Dave I don't
wont to spoil your pleasure with your lathe Be very carefully with
milling in the SB9 The Nut from the crossfeed isn't very strong I
learned by experience I Ruined mine with a few mistakes when I was
milling in the wrong way so i learned that you must push against the
rotation off the mill when you do this wrong the material goes to
the mill by it self and way to fast! causing heavy force on the
crossfeed nut a ruined the thread in it before you notice.
Bert (10475) |
| You can also get
plain MT3 collets. I find them much more handy than dedicated
endmill holders. Yes, drawbar is as simple as a long bolt that would
pull the collet or endmill adapter into the taper. you will need
threads at adapter end to match collet/holder. I think 3/6-16. Other
end will need to have some way to bear against the spindle. there is
a catalog scan in the files section. I don't know if it shows
anything like it. Anyhow, what I did, at the time I was LAZY, was
use a piece of 3/8 all thread. I turned a 'washer' with a spigot to
align into and bear against the spindle. Set up collet with endmill
to close against, used the washer and double nutted a rod coupler on
the right place. Basically a REALLY long bolt. No its not pretty and
the purists will scold me but its simple and it works. dennis
(10476) |
| I'm getting a darned good idea of what folks are saying. I found a
simple drawbar set-up for a mini-lathe similar to what I believe
Dennis was mentioning
http://www.homestead.com/tool20895/drawbar.html
But it gives me an idea of the general working principle of the
drawbar. I definitely see a milling attachment in my future
(probably my Father's Day present from the kids!). And thanks for
the warning....one of these days I'll get the nerve to take the
crossfeed apart to see what makes it tick. I've got a bit of play
and I'm thinking the t-nut is a bit worn. Not sure what they cost to
replace, but will contact Rose eventually and find out.
(10477) |
| All the drawbar has
to do is to keep pressure on the taper and not bend when you hammer
the taper out. If you want heavy duty, take a bar just under the
bore ID and tap it for the threads you will need on the holder. The
large diameter will not flex or bend like all thread. Dave (10478) |
| I have two draw
bars if you would be interested in one of them. (10482) |
| There's a nice
picture in "How to Run a Lathe" that illustrates this. Worth looking
at. Frank (10485) |
Check to see if the
play is about the same all along the excursion. It is is, then the
nut is worn. Usually, however, the play is more near the center,
where most turning is done. In that case, the screw is worn also.
Often, just replacing the nut makes a big difference. I think there
are aftermarket nuts available. Does anybody make slightly undersize
aftermarket nuts? Frank
(10486) |
| Still waiting for
the book the copy is return to sender at request a couple off pages
are blank but mostly I start reading when its to late. Bert (10487) |
| A small amount of
end play can be recovered or minimized by ensuring that dial collars
are closely adjusted to the bushings. Len (10488) |
| Endmill
holders |
| With all the recent
talk of milling on the 9" Southbend, I'm thinking of giving this
milling attachment a try. What I need is a recommendation and
suggested source for a set of Morse taper endmill holders and
drawbar, (or the holders, and I'll make a drawbar). Okey
(10599) |
| These are pretty
common items and Grizzly has them and you can make the drawbar
easily. If you don't want to use just all-thread, you can use a
larger dia shaft and tap or thread the end. Dave (10618) |
| I've had a similar question at the
original poster... Would something like this set from Grizzly do the
job?
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=H2690 Mark
(10624) |
| BusyBee tools in
Canada has a stub arbor on sale. The taper is hardened but the stub
is not. Would this be appropriate for making an endmill holder, or
do you need to have the whole thing hardened? The info is as
follows: "Item No:B460 MT Arbor With Straight Stub We have specially
ordered these for applications where regular tapered and hardened
arbor cannot be used. However, the straight shank portion is soft.
Hence, they can be machined to adapt for special applications. Taper
portion is hardened and ground. Taper end is threaded to fit 3/8" x
15 TPI drawbar" I think the drawbar thread is a typo as their flyer
lists it as 3/8 x16. John (10625) |
| I don't know what
size lathe you have but the unit you show has a MT8 taper. That's
big. The SB-9's are MT3. You should be able to get just an end mill
holder MT3 to 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 or whatever. I have one for my drill
press I got from ENCO years ago. The set you show is a full collet
set, It's sort of an overkill. The draw bar you talk about is also
an overkill. It need not be hardened. (10632) |
| MSC has
them.... http://www.mscdirect.com/IWCatSectionView.process?Keyword=Y
RestartFlow=t Merchant_Id=1 p_section_Id=1137 Section_Id=1137
p_product_type_Id=676 ShowProductList=t p_att_type_id_0=29060
p_att_value_id_0=200133 p_search_flag_0=1 p_att_type_id_1=11536
p_att_value_id_1=305848 p_search_flag_1=1 SelectedAtt.length=2
pbegin=0 pcount=15 NameVector%5B0%5D.Name=Shank+Taper
NameVector%5B0%5D.Value=3 NameVector%5B1%5D.Name=Taper+End+Type
NameVector%5B1%5D.Value=Drawbar+End NameVector.length=2 View.x.x=111
View.x.y=19 But they aren't cheap! Webb
(10633) |
| It looks like it's
a MT3 mount adapted to fit MT8 collets. Dave (10638) |
| I bought 4 of these
and the drawbar is 3/8 x 16. Glen (10640) |
| Mark, The end that
goes in the lathe is MT 3. The collets are MT 8. Glen (10641) |
| Whew ! Guess they
are not ! LOL, I think I'll go with the under $20 version that
someone suggested from Grizzly.
http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/pages/462.cfm?
Okey (10647) |
| You can also get
these and mt3 collets from
www.LittleMachineShop.com (10648) |
| Old milling
table? |
| I have just bought
a neat little old 10" diameter milling table. It's hard to make out
the manufacture but it looks something like Palmgren? Has anybody
ever heard of a name something like this and if so what country
would this be. (12169) |
| Palmgren made a
milling attachment. You can check them out at
www.palmgren.com
Rose Marvin (12171) |
| Palmgren was an old
line US manufacturer is Chicago or Detroit or some place like that
where cars have snow tires. Like some other names, I think the name
has been co-opted and is used on Chinese stuff. (12172) |
| Palmgren also makes
a variety of rotary tables, which sounds like what you may have.
Frank (12173) |
| Probably Palmgren.
If it weighs around 55 pounds (light for a 10 inch table), and has a
40:1 ratio rather than the more common 90:1, it almost certainly is
Palmgren. US made, a bit light for milling arcs and such in steel,
but fine for dialing a setting, locking the table, and drilling or
plunging. Stan (12180) |
| Milling
attachment |
Is anyone
interested in a milling attachment for a 10" south bend? There is a
guy on another list that has one for sale. Mike
(13627) |
| I wish I could get
one for my 16 inch SBL. Keep me in mind if you should ever find one.
Philip (13628) |
| Phillip, there was one listed on Ebay a few weeks ago for a 16" SB. I think
it may have been a group member, I think named imasteamer or
something like that. Check to group registry and give him a yell. He
deals in lathe parts. (13631) |
| Thanks for
the references I'm the guy who deals in used machinery and tools
imsteamer21@h... 914 720 5523 cell 9am - 10 pm est fred ps i have a
16" sb milling attachment $325 + shipping (13633) |
| Fred, No
problem. This stuff is getting hard enough to find, let alone when
people don't try to help with your search. I will be looking for
some items for my 1948 9" South Bend Model "A" w/48" bed before
long. I will give you a holler and maybe we can do some dealing.
BK (13635) |
| BK, you can buy a
new one through Mc Masters. Duane (13637) |
| Duane yes you
can buy a new milling attachment from McMaster Carr but it isn't the
same, either in appearance, quality or weight 1) not original sb and
probably Taiwanese 2) is held in place with a wedge and is MUCH
lighter duty than the sb - the sb weights around 100 lbs Taiwanese
weights around 25 lbs 3) the sb replaces the compound and has a male
tapered stub which is identical to the compound and is held extremely
rigidly unlike the copy which is held rather loosely 4) depends on
the quality of the work you want to do and also if you want original
sb remember you get what you pay for cheapness begets junk Taiwanese
= JUNK. fred (13640) |
| Fred You are
absolutely right about the quality of the old SB milling attachments
and getting what you pay for. I've used a Palmgren brand for my
10-inch for about 2 years. I think it was still USA made, but I hear
that Palmgren is going to Taiwan their stuff very soon. Anyway, the
Palmgren milling attachment is OK, sort of. I used it a lot and
learned patience by taking very small cuts. It is fine for light or
occasional use, but a milling machine it ain't. If I had to do it
over again, I think I would go with SB but the price difference is
big. The Palmgren is certainly not junk, and you can do serious work
with it, but you have to be very tender when you use it. Frank
(13648) |
| Fred, in answer to
what you have said about mill attachments. The one in McMaster
(looked like) the one I have for my SB lathe. I am quit sure mine is
a SB and came with the lathe. It probably weights around 50 or so
lbs. You take the tool holder out, rocker wedge and washer off, The
attachment sets on the compound around the tool post, and you put a
tool holder back through the tool post and tighten up on the post
bolt. That fastens the attachment to the compound. Why I say it
probably came with the lathe, I dug through 30 to 40 years of rotted
roofing and trash and found probably everything that came with the
lathe when it was new. According to Rose and the lathe number, my
machine was made in 1920, shipped to Magnolia cotton oil mill here
in Arkansas where I got the machine from. It is a SB 21in x14ft.
Price $250.00 used. It runs most ever day and does a better job than
some I have ran in local machine shops. And yes, junk is junk and
most everything that comes off of the Pacific rim is junk.
Duane (13650) |
| Why not get one of
the casting sets from Metal Lathe. They mount the same as the
factory one does and is as well designed as it is if not better.
They also have the only decent T-slot cross slide kit on this side
of the pond. JWE (13657) |
| SB 9" milling
attachment |
| Anyone on the list
using this milling attachment (see URL below) for the SB 9"? I am
wondering how it compares to the attachment made by South Bend,
which seems to go for ridiculous prices on Ebay. What's you overall
impression's with fit and finish? TIA! Milling attachment URL
www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-5.html
William (14224) |
| William, This is a
rough casting kit that you finish yourself. Fit and finish depend on
how good of a machinist you are. They advertise this kit as a
project to do on a 9" lathe. I did most of the work on my lathe, but
I cut the dovetails on a milling machine at work. It was a great
learning experience for me to make the milling attachment. I bought
a little Clausing milling machine right after I completed the
project, so I really haven't used it much. If you are going to do
it, buy a carbide dovetail cutter. I killed an HSS one and ended up
buying carbide to finish the job. Glen (14225) |
| I spoke with the
guy about it a month ago. You also need the base, sold separately.
It is made for his cross slide as well, not the Southbend one. The
price gets to about $200 plus shipping before you are done and you
get rough castings and plans. You have to supply all of the other
stuff like leadscrew and nut, buy a dovetail cutter etc. The cost
can get out of hand real quick. I had thought of machining up a cast
iron angle plate and mounting it between the cross slide and
compound for a milling attachment and holding a small vise in the
tool slot with Tee bolts. If you have to machine something up then
this is the cheap way to do it! JP (14245) |
| Milling
adapter travel? |
| What is the
vertical travel of the SB milling adapter? JP (14439) |
| From the SB
1963 catalog Milling Attachment for 10" Catalog #CL2680R Vertical
Feed 3" Cross Feed 5 7/8" Vise Holds 1 3/4" Jaw Depth 15/16" Jaw
Width 3 1/2" (14457) |
| South Bend 7"
shaper |
| I am in the process
of rebuilding a 7" South Bend shaper and need some miscellaneous
parts. I have contacted LeBlond and Mermac and neither seem to be
much help. A friend of mine obtained some parts several years ago
from a company called Schwartz (Machinery?). If they are still
around I do not have a current telephone number. Does anyone have
any info on Schwartz or other sources for parts? Greg
(14540) |
| I have a few NOS 7"
shaper parts. vise handle, feed ratchet, a gib, etc. Also have a
"mostly complete" 7" shaper that I'm either going to fix up, part
out, or sell as-is. What do you need? You can direct e- mail me at:
lathemill@j... (14556) |
| There is a group on
yahoo called metal shapers, its run by Scott Logan. There are some
fellas on there that have a lot of info on shapers of all sorts. RC (14573) |
| Would this
milling att. work on a 10K? |
| I'm wondering if I
could adapt the ENCO (Phase II) Compound Slide Milling Drilling
Table that is on sale for 67.95 to my 10K via some kind of angle
plate on the cross slide.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPAGE?PMPAGE=Specials/201-2826
Also, what is the general technique for squaring a milling
attachment? Thanks for all the good stuff I get here! Gene
(14657) |
| Take a look in the
photo section, squaring against a faceplate and operating a milling
attachment is shown. JP (14659) |
| You may be able to
adapt it to work but that table is designed for a drill press. I
have one just like it. My opinion of it is it not worth the time to
adapt it. The lead screws have more backlash than my 55 year old
lathe . It looks like quality but its not!! It is possible to make
it better but you would need to make all new leadscrews and nuts.
and machine the dovetails square. If I were you I would look on
e-bay or even ask people at this sight if they have a a older
milling attachment they are willing to part with at a reasonable
price. I bet you get something worth using for the same money. Like
I said earlier I have one if anyone offered me 50$ I would take it
in a heartbeat. I would feel bad though knowing I sold some one such
a piece of @#$%. its nothing more than a drill press vice that
moves. There is nothing precision about it. (14667) |
| Shaper
attachment for the lathe |
| Some have milling
attachments for their lathe, how many people have shaper attachments
for their lathe. Check it out at the bottom of the page
http://www.lathes.co.uk/seniorshaperplaner/
JP (15928) |
| JP Now that is
interesting! I wouldn't mind figuring out how to build one of those. Clint (15929) |
| No problem. I
suppose you could use an old backing plate and some ball end joints.
Get an old saddle or make one up, it doesn't move. The picture is
pretty descriptive, a little imagination an you can start making
linear chips. JP (15931) |
| Here's another:
http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Keyway_Slotting_Attachment.html
Jeff (15932) |
| I found this
interesting one on the net.
http://www.duwaynesplace.com/hand_shaper_project.html Shaper
attachment for the lathe. (15933) |
| That's the Adept
Shaper. Kind if amazing what ingenuity was at work 50 to 100 years
ago. Look for the Urick Metal Master for an odd combo machine. There
is a Yahoo group dedicated to this one as well.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Urwick_MetalMaster/ JP (15934) |
| For a better
picture.
http://www.btinternet.com/~sylvestris/metalmaster/MM2.htm (15936) |
| There are several
ideas for making an attachment of this type at mlathemods2 in the
shaper folder. JWE (15937) |
| JP I have been a
member of that group for a long time, and yes, my plans are to build
it, next year I hope. Clint (15938) |
| Grizzly mill
attachment |
| Has anyone
here tried one of these on their lathe? It looks like it may be more
versatile than the Palmgren.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G1080 George B. (15939) |
| Looks very similar,
maybe less overhang. Enco has the Palmgren unit for about the same
money or a few bucks less. Metal Lathe Accessories has a kit for a
real nice unit, you get the castings and plans. JP (15941) |
| Milling
attachment |
| What is the best
milling attachment for a 9" B model lathe? How does the
original
South Bend stack up with a after market attachment. The South Bend
model has been going for 175$ to 275$ on ebay. Is this price about
right? Gary
(17185) |
| I have used a
Palmgren on my 10K for some years. It's OK, but you have to take it
real slow and take very small cuts. The Z movement is a big pain the
rear. I would suggest getting an original if you can. Frank
(17214) |
| I also have a
Palmgren attachment, which I use only occasionally, for light
milling. I really don't think lathes are the best choice for
milling, and it can be hard on the lathe. That said, on my 9" SB, I
also have a lever, double-tool cross slide. I use that with the
milling attachment and dog it down with a steel bar over the
attachment base and two bolts and tee nuts, which gives a very rigid
mount. There is a small step in the base which I can set against the
face of the cross slide. Steve
(17217) |
| Milling
attachments |
| I've never before
tried to mill anything on the lathe before, but for small jobs, I
figured it's a lot more cost efficient than finding and acquiring a
large vertical mill. So, I jumped in and bought a milling attachment
off of ebay. Next, I'm going to order some end mills... anybody have
any experience in this area? Do I just chuck up the mills in the 'ol
3 jaw and have at it? Or is it preferable to use some sort of
holder? I'm buying just the HSS mills, not carbide. Kaipo
(18218) |
| I once had a
sears/atlas 6" lathe with a milling attachment. It had a mill holder
that resembled a collet setup that went through the spindle. The bit
was held in place by a Allen screw in the piece with the taper that
fit into the head stock. Joe (18220) |
| Best to use collets
to hold end-mills. Also, make certain EVERYTHING IS TIGHT. Any play
in the milling setup may lead to disaster. I've done lots of milling
with my 10k and a Palmgren attachment, but you must take very light
cuts. Finally gave up and bought a Clausing vertical mill. Anyway,
you will find the milling attachment very useful for the occasional
light milling job. Go slow! Frank
(18221) |
| A 3
Jaw chuck can have several thousands of runout. The spindle in a
SB-9 (I am assuming a 9) or a 10K for that matter is almost MT3. (I
believe its a section of a MT-3). There are MT3 to end mill
adapters, If you have the SB spindle adapter that makes it a MT2
there are MT2 to end mill adapters. (ENCO and others) These are held
into the spindle with a shop made draw bar. Usual thread-all, a
washer and a nut. They have a set screw to hold the end mill in
place and run very true. I have a single MT2 to 3/8 end mill
adapter. I use it interchangeably in my drill press and with an
adapter in my SB-9 lathe, although infrequently since I do not have
milling adapter yet. Jim B. (18224) |
| Jim, Does your
drill press have a thru -hole in the spindle to allow a draw bar to
hold the adapter in the press? Mine does not. Out of sheer
desperation I've tried to run a milling cutter in the drill press
from time to time, but the taper wouldn't hold against side loads.
C (18226) |
| I just chuck the
end mill in the old 3 jaw, and go to work. (18227) |
| No it does not. The
MT2 adapter I have is of the threaded variety. I made a "Tang" to go
into it. I remove the chuck with the tapered tool against the tang.
Insert the adapter and then "press" it firmly into a block of wood
on the table using the Hand levers on the spindle. It has never come
loose and I have always had to use the remover against the tang in
order to get it out. Jim B. (18229) |
| I have limited
experience with this, but I have used a Palmgren milling attachment
on my 9 inch SB. It has a forked base, designed to be held onto the
compound rest by a bar through the slot in the tool post. I found it
was fairly springy. I was fortunate that my lathe also came with a T
slot cross slide. I had better luck with the T-slot cross slide and
two bolts holding a bar down across the legs of the attachment base.
That is rigid enough for my work, and there is a ledge on the bottom
of the attachment base that can sit against the side of the cross
slide, giving additional bracing. As to chucking milling cutters, I
use the 1/2 inch collet. A Assume a real mill collet keys on to the
cutter, which the lathe collets obviously do not. Again, I am doing
light work - I don't think it is a good idea to attempt heavy
milling this way. I need a lot of rigidity with everything gibbed
down fairly tight. This includes making sure the work is also
secure. Steve
(18232) |
| Kaipo, If you have
a 9" SB the spindle should be 3MT and there are mill holder adapters
for this taper, they are available from Enco. Milling on a lathe is
a pain in the butt, but it can be done. It puts more wear on the
cross slide screw than lathe turning does. I use the M2AL mill bits
because they are cheap and last longer than HSS whenever I can. A
rigid work holder is key, you can get a kit from Metal Lathe
Accessories which works well. JP (18233) |
| One more thing I
forgot to mention, move the cross slide so the cutter cuts into the
stock rather than dragging the stock into the cutter. JP (18235) |
| I just upgraded my
little Taig milling adapter to use on my Heavy Ten. It looks like
it's on steroids now. I just put my cutters in collets and use light
cuts. So far it seems to work great. I would be a bit concerned using
a 3-jaw due to the runout but it would work if it wasn't too
bad. Like others have said just go lightly and give it a try. Tom
(18245) |
| Holding end
mills |
| southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com
writes: mills in the 'ol 3 jaw and have at it? Or is it preferable
to End mills in lathe chucks are bad news. Jaws on the chuck are
probably hard and the mills are hard and they don't grip very well.
Mill will tend to be pulled out and into the work causing bad words
to issue from your mouth and wrecked work or cutters. There are
milling holders and draw bars available. The tool holders have a set
screw to grip the milling cutter on the flat and the draw bar to
hold the adaptor tight into the taper of the head stock.
(18276) |
| I'm just
a beginner. I have about 30 odd endmills and not one has a slot/flat
on it. I find an er32 collet chuck quite adequate for holding them
tight.. even during the heaviest of work. Garry D (18289) |
| Hmm, ever ask
yourself why they make r8 collets when the only r8 tapers you ever
see are in tool holding spindles. (18292) |
| Hmmm, don't think
any of my several hundred end mill cutters have a flat on them
except for the original flat maker, Weldon. Sure its a added benefit
but my Bridgeport (O.T.) uses Universal Acura flex collets.
Universal claims to have no pull-out with their collets and I have
never experienced it. I have also used the ER variety of collets
without problems. The DA collets have had a bad rep. for holding but
again no probs here. I have never used the TG collets but they also
have a fine reputation. As for R8, I don't know. But I have a
Cuttermaster end mill grinder that uses 5c collets and no slippin
there. I wonder if users have a tendency to under tighten the collet
nut (if used). The manufactures have guidelines for tightening the
holder and it may surprise some people how much torque is actually
needed. As for draw bar type(R8/5C) collets clean surfaces always
help. John.
(18298) |
| I have been
watching this thread with interest. I have to say that in all my
years in machining, I've never had a cutter do what has been
discussed here. I have used R-8's,5-C's,and Jacob's without ever
having a spin or turn-out with a milling cutter. I will agree that
the set-screw type holder does give better results when hogging out
heavy stock. Not because of the set-screw exclusively. But by the
additional meat around the nose of the holder as well. It makes
perfect sense to act like a battleship when you need to. Heavy
action requires heavy response. (inject your favorite historical
anecdote here). Some of the better drill companies ,like the
original Silver Demming) mill 3 flats onto their drill shanks. The
reason is obvious. They don't spin. Same idea goes for round boring
bars in a lathe, grind a flat the length of the shank. I cant my
bars up about 10 degrees so that when I set them, they are always
slightly tipped above level. Of course there are exceptions to what
I just said. The day I used a 1" S D, (it was a knock-off) made by
the Tie-one-on Co. Stuck the drill in the T-lathe I was running.
Brand new drill, began drilling. And went into the reamer-business. Yep, the
silly rice drill managed to twist straight resembling a reamer! Wish
I still had that piece of junk to show what cheap really is.
Ron (18312) |
| Milling
attachment |
| I was
wondering if anyone knows where I could find plans to build a
milling attachment for my 9" Southbend? I know I could buy one but
I
like to build things and this would be a great little project.
chuck
(18480) |
| This may not
be what you have in mind, but take a look. Castings available.
http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-5.html (18481) |
| I was fortunate to
get a 5/8" end mill with my SB9 that had a MT3 shank. I have used it
to mill flats on a boring bar holder I made for the lathe and found
that it worked very well. I found that it cut best when the work was
moved rear to front while cutting. Only problem was removing it
after I was done. I used two six inch studs from my 3/8" clamp set
joined with a coupling nut and with another coupling nut on the end
for a broader striking surface. Pushed it through he HS bore and
tapped lightly on the rear of the shank. If I had to buy more
cutters, I would either get them with the MT3 shanks or with a 1/2"
or smaller straight shank and hold it in a collet. Paul A. (18504) |
| Milling
attachment |
| I'm about to
buy a model a 9x24. I'm new to metal working but am a working [too
much working ] builder, woodworker etc. I'll mostly be learning for
a while. I'd like to be able to mill as well as turn. I have limited
$ and space so I'm considering a milling attachment. [Palmgren] The
alternative given my space and budget would be a Chinese mini mill.
A used mill would be nice but I really don't have space. So what are
the + and - of lathe attachment vs. Mini mill. David (20058) |
| I have a
10K and I am having a slotted cross slide made now. From what I have
read in a Home Shop Machinist article this is the way to go. You
just need to make a few parts and buy some #3MT end mill holders. I
have all the attachments made just waiting for the slide to be
delivered. Bob (20062) |
| Milling on the
lathe |
| I have used the
Palmgren attachment on my 10k and it is OK, but you have to take
very small cuts. It is not as stable as the original SB attachment,
but half the price. I have done some very accurate work with it.
Give it a try and you can always sell it, which you can't with a
Chinese mini-mill. Palmgren has started making its stuff in Taiwan,
but Joe at Plaza Machinery bought the last of the American made
Palmgren milling attachments so go to him if you want a good
casting. Nice guy. Important thing - when you use a milling
attachment, make certain all the gibs are good and snug and there is
no play anywhere whatsoever. And take baby cuts. Have you checked
out the footprint of the Clausing 8520? I'm space limited, too and
was just able to squeeze one into my shop (I put the table saw on
wheels, which helped) The Clausing is awesome! Frank
(20066) |
| I have used a
Palmgren on my Atlas and there are two things to watch. One is of
course you have a stack of slides holding the work. (carriage on bed,
cross slide on carriage, compound on cross slide, then the Palmgren
clamped onto the tool post.) As one of the others said, take baby
cuts only! Tighten all gibs firmly (like not moving hardly) The
second thing is that normal endmills are self feeding and an endmill
held in a chuck is not secure and can slip forward and dig in,
ruining your day and your work piece. My solution (not the best
probably) was to save up my pennies and got a "minimill" from Harbor
Freight, but had to change out screws and nuts for true 1/1000 inch
graduations on the dials. (The original had 16 TPI screws, so
although the dials were marked in 1/1000 there was 0.0625 left over,
this made me ruin a gauge I was making)
(20067) |
| How do you
hold a milling cutter? |
| I've had a
South Bend 9" lathe for a couple of years now and recently bought a
milling attachment to go with it. Not sure why, frankly, but it just
seemed neat to have the capability to machine all kinds of parts and
not only round ones. But here's the problem: how does one hold the
milling cutters when using the milling attachment on a SB lathe? I
understand that one should not hold the milling cutters in a normal
3 or 4 jaw chuck. Something I read in the past suggested that the
cutters can sometimes get loose and do nasty damage to nearby people
or things. A guy I talked to noted that milling is an "impact"
procedure that requires more secure way of holding the cutter than a
3 jaw chuck. Someone else suggested using collets and a draw bar
(not sure which size or type to get if I go this way) but the guy
who described milling as an "impact" procedure didn't recommend
collets. Just to give you the full story, I called South Bend and
they sent me to another company where the guys didn't know what to
do. But they recommended this group.
(22199) |
| Collet
holding is the only option to grip an endmill in a lathe. BTW,
lathes are really not the machine to do milling. The milling
attachment has got to be the worst idea for an attachment I have
ever seen. Perched up there on the compound with several mechanical
joints to maintain stiffness is just asking for an accident. If you
do attempt this, use sharp cutters, light cuts and never climb mill.
Staying with small cutters and many cuts is best. RichD (22202) |
| I used
collets for the short time I did milling on the lathe. I just got a
milling machine so that will be a thing of the past g pretty good
service using a 3/8" milling cutter in a 5C 3/8" collet. Tom
(22203) |
| Simplest
answer is to get a cheapy Chinese endmill holder on a suitable morse
taper shank. As you will most likely only be doing small work its no
great hardship to standardize on one shank diameter and use end
mills with flats on the shanks (or fit flats to screwed ones). 1/4
or 6 mm shanks seem to have a useful range of sizes and, in UK at
least, can often be bought in special offer sets, usually 3 flute
end mill / slot drills, at economic prices. You will need to make a
draw-bar to hold things in place. Alternative is to start with blank
end arbors and make proper screwed holders with a transverse grub
screw to lock the cutter in place. That's what I did mumble mumble
years ago before cheapy Chinese was even heard of. Ambitious folks
make a proper screwed shank collet type holder, nice but lots of
work. Despite RichD's entirely correct strictures there are
occasions when a relatively large cutter can be useful. 1 inch (ish)
shanks can be held OK in a normal chuck. The rotating mass of the
chuck helps stabilize things and reduce the impact effects. Normal
collets are not completely satisfactory as the end mill will tend to
pull out unless the collet is done up well tight. Hard steel does
not hold hard steel well and, frankly I'd rather not lean on my
workholding collets that hard. Clive
(22204) |
| You will learn more about using a lathe for it's primary
purpose here then almost anywhere else. Now about milling on a
lathe. In essence, it IS a workable attachment if you keep to soft
materials. I remember my dad's milling attachment for his 6" Atlas
lathe. Back in 1952 engineers and other suburban's were diving into Mechanix Illustrated Encyclopedia. The articles covered such things
as this milling attachment, basement Rec rooms and plywood
campers. This little rig would sit proudly on top of your lathe so
when your buddies came over for a bar-b-que and Schlitz you could
see the envy in their eyes. Then you went to use it. The first chunk
of steel that introduced itself to into your fore arm (a great
opportunity to try out that metal detector you just finished!) let
you know this thing will NOT do up a new boiler for the Andrea
Doria. Unless you got the patience of a clam on Prozac it was pretty
much a boat anchor. You can use a cutter in a 3-jaw chuck if you make
a solid holder with a set screw. Taking light cuts is an absolute.
If
you insist on cutting steel keep in mind that the part will take a
LONG time to complete. Simple physics says that all those flex points
will do just that. Flex in ANY machine tool is bad. This rig has like
6 of them. On the other hand, if your a model-maker and need something
that can do small work, it is close to indispensable. It's big brother
is a close second for the almost useful award. The Smithy is
advertised as the only thing you need for the machine shop. Of course
their going to say that, their try'n ta sell these buggers! Again,
for
small work, they are great. But don't try single point threading. It's
all a matter of getting what you pay for. Although lately just about
anything from off-shore is using that caveat as a mandate for just
plain bad products. Personally I think they sent a bunch of
bean-counters who flunked abacus-101 to design school. Now there are
some guys here that can machine rings around me and will take that
rig of yours and start mak'in gold out of wooden nickels. Which just
goes to show ya it's the man not the machine .However to quote a
local curmudgeon, "Ya cont make chicken soup out of chicken s**t! So
yes, you can use this thing if you take light cuts and take your
time. My dad has built die sets on his Atlas. I began my
apprenticeship using it. Ron
(22205) |
| You can get "End
mill adapters" from "Victor MachineExchange" A 3/8" holder with a #
3Morse taper will cost you about$20. Larry (22208) |
| Or, as an exercise, you can do what I did -
machine one. Cut the taper between centers with the tailstock
offset. JUST enough tailstock range on my 9A to handle a Morse 3.
Used the headstock spindle itself with some prussian blue to check
the taper - had to adjust a couple of times to get it right. Bored a
3/8" hole and then added a #6 grub screw. I ground a small flat on
the one cutter I currently have for the screw to seat onto. I added
a drawbar, too - just a 1/2" rod with 3/8 x 16 screw thread on each
end plus a custom "nut" for the spindle end. A piece of threaded rod
would work too... It's good practice :) Then again, for $20, maybe
it's better to just buy one :) I've used it a few times - no issue
with the mill holder, but as has been said, the milling attachment
itself is just not as rigid as one would like. I over-tightened the
gib adjustments on the cross slide and compound slide while milling,
which helped a bit. Keeping the cuts very light (maybe 30 to 60 thou
depth and a .002 feed) works, but the mill vise still moves a little
- very disconcerting. Someday, I'll get a nice bench mill, but for
now, this works.
(22209) |
| Check out
Ebay # 3855401269 NO.2 MORSE TAPER END MILL HOLDER [854] I believe
this is what you are looking for. Need to use a mt3 to mt2 spindle
adaptor for the headstock or cut down a tanged mt3 to mt2 adaptor.
ay need to thread the end to accept a drawbar. I have NO affiliation
with this seller. Have bought several items from him in the past,
and he seems to be a very good person to deal with. BK (22210) |
| Here's a
set up I made for holding the 3MT x end mill size milling adaptor.
There is a nice write up in the Sept/Oct 1994 Home Shop Machinist on
milling with the lathe. I have another Yahoo group with more milling
pics if anyone would like to join. Click on my profile for the pics
and the group link. Bob (22211) |
| Grizzly has 'em for
about $16. http://www.grizzly.com/ Glen (22213) |
| I want to thank all
of you who responded to my question. I don't want
to wear out my welcome but If you don't mind I'd like to ask a
further question or two just because I didn't understand everything
you wrote. As far as I can tell there are two answers to my question
about how to hold a milling cutter. One is to use a collet, even
though this is imperfect because collets can slip. The second is to
use an "end mill adapter." I gather this is something that I would
stuff into the taper hidden behind the chuck, if I could get the
chuck off (I'll look at the postings to try to find the answer to
that one). Both of these solutions apparently require a draw bar of
some sort. I think I get the general idea--seem to remember
something that went through the headstock or whatever you call it
that screws into a collet (or the collet screws into it) on the
right hand side of the head and can be tightened up with a round
handle on the left. Those who recommended an end mill adapter, which
is apparently different from a collet, seemed to suggest that a very
simple homemade draw bar would work with it. From these answers it
sounds like a no. 3 Morse taper end mill adapter is the way to go.
Cheap and simple? Is that agreed? (I'll leave the exercise of making
one for a later time) And if it is, is there anything else I need to
know about the draw bar? How do I tighten it on the left end
(through the head) side of the lathe? I'm sorry to be stating all of
this in such imprecise language. I haven't worked with collets or
done much with lathes since high school. Eric (22228) |
| What I did was buy
a morse taper end mill adapter from "airgas" with a threaded end for
drawbar. Then I just bought some threaded rod from the hardware
store and used it with a large washer and a wing nut on the other
end of the spindle. you have to pick a certain diameter for the
shank of the end mill. I has worked well. Eric (22229) |
| I'll throw in one
more idea, I haven't tried it but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Buy the end mills with a flat and a half inch step down/up shank.
Make your own adapter which would have a small flange on each end to
prevent endwise motion that you could hold in your 3 jaw chuck . The
adapter would have to be longer than the jaws of the chuck and also
put in a pretty good sized setscrew in the adapter that would hold
the end mill on the flat. I have milled aluminum in my lathe with
just the end mill held by the 3 jaw chuck using really light cuts
(guess I was lucky). Norm
(22230) |
| So, Based on the
above cautionary threads on milling on a lathe, I'm thinking that
flycutting in a lathe is akin to jimmying a screwdriver around in
the nearest light socket? Brian
(22245) |
| There was a good
article in The Home Shop Machinist about flycutting on the 9 10K
lathe. I studied it for hours and then decided to go ahead and get a
T slot cross slide and make a tool block for flycutting with a 4 jaw
chuck. The author milled a large box parallel with good results. I
haven't had time to flycut anything but the milling I have done
turned out great. Bob(22250) |
| That is the
funniest thing I have read all day :-) You are correct I think.
Tom (22255) |
| End mills |
| Seeing as how the
topic of holding end mills has come, I'd like to jump in to request
help finding end mill adapters: specifically B S#9 5/16 and 1/4. I
have an old horizontal mill that has a B S# 9 taper to the arbor.
Alan
(22225) |
| #9 B S are either
very scarce or very expensive. When I looked for them they were
both. Turn your own and drill and ream 1/2" . Many mills under 1/2"
can be purchased with !/2" shanks. This was the least expensive
option I found. (22227) |
| Safe milling
on the lathe |
| Briefly, you can
square up stock on the lathe. If you have a 4-jaw chuck or face plate
with straps. Once the piece is faced on 6 sides, it is easy to shift
the work to do precision hole work. Ron (22513) |
| Throw in a good
carriage stop and you can turn out duplicate parts, "milled" in your
4 jaw chuck. RC (22517) |
| Works real nice to
square up rough cut blocks. Then i take them one more step with my t
slot cross slide and end mill holder in the spindle and mill nice
slots. Bob (22537) |
| End Mill Sizes |
| I recently
bought a MT3 taper, 3/8" end mill holder from Grizzly, and a couple
of brand new 3/8" carbide end mills off of ebay. Either the holder
is too small or the end mill shaft is too large (about .002"-.003")
because the mills won't go in the holder. Is there some tolerance
specification on either the mill or the holder that I should have
been aware of? Any way to make these work? Wade
(22780) |
| Ream the hole in
the piece of Chinese junk. JP (22786) |
| Take your
trusty calipers and mic both places. If they are both China maybe
then maybe both to blame. My MT3 1/2 German holder is snug with USA
end mills. I have to tap them in and out. Bob (22790) |
| Any way to Check
both and figure which is wrong and see if it can be replaced. I
would bet it is the end-mills and that's why they were on e-bay.
Since they will fit into a collet, you can still use them, but it's
not as nice as the holder. If you want to change the holder, I would
assume the ID is hardened so it would require grinding. If you do
grind it larger it is a one too part as you will probably never find
more oversized end mills. And if that is the case, I would also
grind some racing stripes on the OD to you will always recognize
this as a modified tool. Dave
(22791) |
| Bob, The end mills
are about .377" at the shaft, just enough to make them unusable. The
holder is exactly .375. Thank you for your advice. Wade (22799) |
| Dave, Yes, the
inside of the holder is hard as a rock, I've discovered. The mills
themselves appear to be a couple thousandths too large, so I will
try to replace them with another brand. Wade(22800) |
| How about
jigging a dremel as a toolpost grinder and knocking the mill shanks
down a thou or two? (22803) |
| Good idea! How
would you go about chucking up the "business end" of the end mill? I
could try this. Wade (22805) |
| I don't think a
Dremel will cut the carbide shanks. Bob (22807) |
| You could try and
heat the holder with a heat gun or oven and gain the several
thousandth's that way, but you're on your own getting it back out.
Paul (22820) |
| Dave, If you're
looking for an interesting project, why don't you set up one of
those end mills between centers (if there is a center at the bottom)
and jury rig a Dremel, or other type grinder on your tool post (I've
heard of folks doing this with a 4" angle grinder!!!) and see if you
can take a few thou off the shank. Don't forget to cover EVERYTHING
on the lathe and use a vacuum to suck up the grit...it is not
healthy for the lathe. Mario (22835) |
| With a 'mounted
point' grinding wheel-on-a-shank i mean. aluminum oxide will cut
carbide...er, won't it? (22839) |
| I could try this.
If it was a regular milling cutter, the center on the end might
still be intact. for end-mills, the typically lose the center when
they grind the end. But, unless you have a means of getting the
alignment perfect, all you will be doing is making a mess. If you
bought enough to make it worth the investment, buy another holder
from ENCO and open it up. A Dremel can grind the ID, but you will go
thru a bunch of grinding bits. They are also cheap at Enco. Get the
largest that will fit inside of the bore. Dave (22842) |
| South Bend
Mills? |
| I just wondered if
anybody out there knew if SB ever made a mill or any other
machinery? (23601) |
| Mills, Yep we had
them in trade school a whole row of them. Bob (23603) |
| Yes, SB made
vertical mills, somewhere in size between a Bridgeport and a burke/millrite,
as well as drill presses and a 7" shaper. Unfortunately, Tony's
lathe mill website does not have any pictures. I've seen several
examples of the mill and drill presses on eBay. Jeff (23604) |
| They did make
shapers for one thing. Len (23611) |
| Yes, I have a
vertical mill that they made in the 1960's similar to a Bridgeport
in size. Later they made a heavier duty Vertical mill. Len
(23614) |
Take a look at this
and see if they list what you are looking for in the mill section:
http://www.southbendlathe.com/ Jim
(23615) |
| They still make
mills. Check their website. (23616) |
| End mill |
| Using a 5/8" end
mill in my 9" SB I can only cut a maximum of 0.025" at each pass.
Any deeper cuts /speed produces loads of chatter. Is this the max I
can expect to cut using the lathe as a mill? Tony
(26076) |
| I think the lathe
set up lacks the rigidity to do really heavy cuts. My suggestion is
to find a really good friend who has an extra Bridgeport mill that
needs a new home. Then you go get it and put about $100 into it and
then you have a nice M head Bridgeport to call your own. Oh, wait,
that's what I did. Mike (26078) |
| Not having done
this exact cut on a 9" I cannot say with certainty, especially since
you are not telling us the material you are cutting. However, I
would recommend the following: 1. The material should be mounted as
rigidly as possible. For example, if the top slide is involved it
should be removed or at the very least locked down. 2. If the cross
slide is being used to advance the material then it should be
checked to make sure it is properly adjusted. 3. The headstock
spindle bearings clearances should be checked. Ed P
(26081) |
