| Moving the lathe to the basement
(Jun 4, 2002) |
Getting a new lathe (Aug
7, 2004) |
| Gotta move a Bridgeport
(Jul 5, 2002) |
Lifting Heavy 10 (Aug 14, 2004) |
| Moving SB13 (Feb 28,
2003) |
Moving a 10k (Sep 22, 2004) |
| Lifting lathe (Sep 4,
2003) |
Protecting ways from rust in
transit (Nov 1, 2004) |
| Moving a Heavy 10 (Sep 9,
2003) |
SB 9" proper moving?
(Nov 27, 2004) |
| Moving a sb9 (Apr 20,
2004) |
Moving the OLD SB 16"
(Dec 21, 2004) |
| Getting it home (May 12,
2004) |
Moving day (Jan 25,
2005) |
| Moving Lathe (Jul 4,
2004) |
Moving my 9" (Feb 1,
2005) |
| |
| Moving the lathe to the basement
|
| I have a 10"
Southbend Quick Change Gear Lathe 8187-A (I believe is the Heavy)
which I would like to move into a basement. To make the move easier
I had planned on taking the legs and base off the bed. I expected to
find 4 bolts holding the base to the bed. I can see what looks like
the two bolts under one end of the headstock which connect the bed
to the base. As for the other (2) bolts...are they up inside the
base covered by something? I seem to remember some machine
manufacturers would blend in putty and spray over joints in their
machine casting. If anyone has a suggestion I'd like to hear it.
I've got an old SB manual but it doesn't get into the detail of the
casting.
(4463) |
| I've been taking my Heavy 10" apart
and test fitting cleaned pieces for the last 4 months. Pictures of
the pieces are in the Photos Section in the Heavy 10 folder and more
pics of the restoration are up now on my site. I can take some pics
of the base castings if you need them. As I recall there are 2 bolts
the hold each foot to the base/cabinet and either 2 or 4 bolts that
hold each foot casting to the bed. The large bolts that attach the
feet to the base are on small tabs and easy to find so I suspect
that you're looking for the bolts that hold the feet to the bed.
Mine was pretty old and beat when I got it and I didn't find any
putty anywhere on it when cleaning the castings. I first boiled
everything in TSP and then cleaned them up a second in several
gallons of carb cleaner. Dave (4467) |
| Gotta move a Bridgeport |
| Just got a great
deal on a nice used Bridgeport mill, so now I have to move the
thing. is it possible to do it with just 2 people and a pair of
rollo lifts and a Johnson bar? The guy has a truck level dock (and I
hope a deck plate) but any advice would be appreciated. I'll be
turning the head upside down to get the CG low as possible of
course, but this thing weighs as much as a small car! Tom (4943) |
| It could probably be done, but
you sure need to be careful they re so top-heavy. Would it be
feasible to rent a small forklift? I used one (2k pd.) to unload
mine. I d padded the forks with old rags tied to the forks and
picked it up under the table; it tried to slide and tipped the back
wheels off the ground for a second or two (fortunately was only
about a foot off the trailer). Scary feeling! Ended up making a
sling from heavy nylon straps to suspend it from above; put pipes
under it while using the forks to take some weight off roll it all
the way to the edge of the trailer then lift it with it almost
touching the forklift boom. I d be REAL WARY of it tipping without
support from above. Another possibility might be an engine hoist so
you could separate it (where the head swings) into two lighter
pieces. Lew (4944) |
| Tom, Be weary of
using an engine hoist. Most of them (at least the ones you can rent)
have a 2 ton capacity. That is with the boom completely retracted.
There are usually four extension points where you can lock down the
boom. 2 ton, 1.5 ton, 1 ton, and .5 ton. I have a Grizzly mill that
weighs about a half ton. With the boom completely extended (to the
.5 ton position) It manages to lift the back wheels of the engine
hoist off the ground. Requires someone standing on it. Unfortunately
I have to extend it that far to be able to clear the machine in
order to lift it. I would suggest checking in your area and see if
there is a heavy machinery mover. He will pick it up, deliver it to
your house and set it down where you want it. Believe me, it will be
money well spent. These guys know what they are doing. Fred (4945) |
| I'm starting to move in that
direction, but being as stubborn as I am I'm still thinking about
the wrecker idea just posted. Tom (4946) |
| The thing about
movers is they know of all the eventualities. We do not. It will
cost a lot more to repair broken body parts or the machine then it
would to have it moved. After all you want to enjoy it for a long
time without any bad memories every time you use it. In comparison
to what you have already spent it is small change along with peace
of mind which has no cost. Fred (4947) |
| Absolutely right. Still have to prove
to myself its not practical though! Tom (4948) |
| I have to move
machines around regularly. I have had one fall over on me. Now I
move machines with a fork lift and / or a pallet jack. I use bars to
get blocks under the machine to lift it. A Bridgeport is a top heavy
beastie. You need to move it with a fork lift as far as you can and
then with a pallet jack and some friends to help you balance it. Run
the knee as far down as it will go to lower the center of gravity.
If things are real iffy remove the head as its easy to take off and
replace. Dumping a machine on its side is a real bummer. Get a
forklift for 125 for the day and have an undamaged machine at the
end of the day. Also an undamaged you. Yasmiin (4949) |
| Tom, I'm not sure if your B'port is
the same size as my Millrite, but if it's in the same ballpark, then
yes, you should be able to move it using the stuff you mentioned.
When I had my mill delivered by a machinery moving company they sent
two guys in a box van with a liftgate. Using some steel plates to
bridge uneven spots and a bit of nudging they got it off the truck,
up the driveway and into its corner in the garage with surprising
ease. Shane (4951) |
| Not long ago I
talked to guy about moving heavy machinery after he successfully
moved my mill. He mentioned that one outfit got a brand new tool for
moving really heavy machines. The tool was basically a hovercraft
type of device that had an outrageous lifting capacity. They did
their first job with it moving some mega monster machine that
weighed in at some ridiculous number of tons. The neat thing was,
they were able to almost effortlessly move something that weighed
scores of tons across the building. Being the first time they ever
tried this, they did have one small glitch. While friction was
reduced to nearly zero, they forgot to account for the physics of
momentum. They had it going just fine, but stopping turned out to be
another matter. The machine was finally stopped by using the
concrete building wall. Unfortunately, the wall wasn't totally up to
the task and perished in its good deed. I just thought you needed to
hear that. (4953) |
| Tom I support the comments about the
safest way being professional assistance. However, if you can
approach the problem methodically, have some feel for handling heavy
objects, and know enough to never be where the machine can fall on
you, you can move it yourself. Rollers work fine on flat, level hard
floor. For anything beyond that, a good strategy is to start by
removing smaller parts. The head, ram, ram mount (on top of the
pedestal), table and saddle are all reasonably easily removable, and
individually weigh less than 200# each. An engine hoist helps with
removing these parts, but all could be managed by two husky guys.
What is left is the base and knee. With the knee completely lowered,
the base is at least reasonably stable, and with the knee weighs
something in the 1100-1200# range. In my case I rented a U-Haul 5x8'
trailer. I bought some 2x10's, and drilled and countersank them
(with big washers) to fit the holes in the base. This gave me a
relatively wide footing to handle side forces. I used an engine
hoist (in the retracted position) to get the base and knee onto the
trailer (which only required a modest lift). I also used cargo
hold-downs to provide side-side and fore-aft stability. I towed it
about 100 miles without incident. Those of you who are sure the
right answer is professional help probably don't want to hear the
part about taking it down the wooden steps into the basement.
Frank (4956) |
| Tom Where
are you located? Might be one of us with a bit of experience that
could help you. Lew (4957) |
| tom wrote: They are usually moved
this way, and the manual shows a drawing with the head upside down.
True, but if you have the equipment to move the 1100lb base, you
have the equipment to move the 1600lb base plus knee, and it won't
be particularly top heavy with the knee down at the bottom. The laws
of physics being what they are, it's pretty hard to find a cherry
picker type engine hoist that has a capability for the tip of the
boom to be longer than the base with the wheels. It would need a
humongous weight on the rear to keep it from tipping. Wait...that
sounds sort of like a fork lift! :-) I'm a little surprised the
owner doesn't have a fork lift, but you'll need a way to lower it
from the truck bed height at your end anyway. Bite the bullet and
rent a lift gate truck - that should give you all the up and down
movement you need. A fold up 4000lb engine hoist will still be
useful for moving it around the shop and occasional
disassembly/reassembly. I wouldn't part with mine for anything. Get
a manual off of ebay. It won't help much with procedures, but the
exploded views are always useful. HQT
http://www.hqtinc.com used to
have an on-line breakout of parts, but their server seems to be
messed up this morning - the "b machine" is what you want there. The
head is held on by the four large nuts you see on the front. Loop a
rope around the head and over the hoist hook a few times, take a
tension on the rope, remove the nuts, and slide the entire head off
toward the front. Have someone steady the head as you do this, as it
is top heavy. You should align (tram) the head on a regular basis
anyway, so don't worry about alignment. The table is removed by
first positioning a small workbench or other flat support to the
right of the mill (I use a heavy metal trashcan with a piece of
plywood on top.) Move the knee so that the bottom of the table is
the same height as the top of the workbench. Remove the x-axis screw
and the two end-plates. Then just push the table to the right onto
the top of the bench. You'll probably need to fine tune the knee
height to keep pressure off the dovetails - the workbench height
should be infinitesimally higher than the bottom of the table when
you slide it off. I wouldn't remove the ram, personally - it not
only has a 1/2"-13 hole in the top for a forged screw-in hook that
is useful for lifting with the engine hoist, it is also essential if
you choose to use a lifting strap. Some folks vehemently disagree
with using the eye bolt, citing the danger of stripping the threads,
but with a new bolt the safe working load of that size is 2,100lb -
with the head and table off the machine, there's a sizable safety
factor. If you're worried about it, use several turns of rope or a
lifting strap under the ram - that's the other common way of lifting
the mill. All this is in the rec.crafts.metalworking newsgroup back
posts, BTW. Above all, plan each step in advance, keep out of the
way at all times, and be careful at every moment, including the
moments when you think you're otherwise safe. With the head and
table off, even falling over won't usually cause more than some
paint damage, but if you're in the way. (4971) |
| I would highly
suggest removing the head from the ram, and also the table. Dave
(4972) |
| Thanks for the disassembly info. I
have a feeling that I'll have trouble finding a liftgate that can
handle 2800 lbs, I figure one of my larger friends can serve as
counterweight for the engine hoist. No way the head can pivot around
that far w/o removing it- its just too tall. (I could remove it and
re mount, but there is no point in that- I'll try to extend the ram
all the way out and try to rotate it again) I was just worried about
gibs or such on the knee. I saw the eyebolt laying around
somewhere. Tom (4975) |
| tom wrote: Where
did you get that weight, Tom? The Bridgeport manual for the 2J lists
2,604lbs gross shipping weight (boxed and braced like you wouldn't
believe), but the net weight of the bare machine is listed at
1,988lbs. Another option is a local flat bed car hauler. They can
drop the mill right in your garage. I just paid a guy a hundred
bucks to pick up and deliver an almost identically sized vertical
band saw - a lot easier than any other option, but then it was
within 25 miles and I left the pickup and delivery time up to him to
schedule in an off-time. If you have a longer way to go, then the
lift gate is probably the cheapest solution - but you may have to
pull the head and table off the mill to keep it under the lift gate
capacity. The smallest is usually ~ kilopound, but you can rent 22'
trucks with a 2000 lb lift gate from several suppliers for ~$80 a
day plus the usual add-ons - at least around here (Washington DC
area.) Not sure what you're talking about here. Unless you
physically remove the bolts and slide in the legs on the normal
"space saver" cherry picker engine hoist, there is no safe way to
use it in a counterweighted, cantilevered mode as you are
describing, and you will most likely exceed its design limits very
quickly if you use it in an inappropriate way. Depending upon the
sum of the moments involved, I doubt whether even a 300 lb friend
will do much to counterbalance a 2,000 lb mill... The thoughts
you're expressing are beginning to make me a bit concerned - if you
or a friend happen to have some structural engineering (or even
basic physics), and know how to do the calculations, then well and
good. We would all hate to read of the sudden demise of a new
Bridgeport owner... The shipping drawing shows the table all the way
back against the column and the motor top almost touching the table
surface. A wood post between the knee and top of the 2J housing
actually provides the necessary rigidity. You have to extend the ram
out far enough to rotate the head 180 degrees to an inverted
position, then crank it toward the column to prepare it for
shipping. WARNING: The worm drive mechanisms on both axes are not
particularly strong - you have to support the head while you are
cranking it around to the new position or risk damaging the gear.
Word to the wise... If you use the eyebolt at its full 'safe rated
tension' like this, you will have *only* the design safety factor,
which is fine _when everything is new_. Assuming 1) you find a hoist
with the requisite safety factor, 2) *if* you don't wish to remove
anything from the mill, and 3) you are tempted to use any older,
untested equipment and hardware, then I would strongly suggest using
a lifting sling rather than the eyebolt. I cannot stress more the
value of researching all the options thoroughly if you want to do it
yourself. Tom, this is an operation which is remarkably easy if you
have prepared for it (including what you're going to do if the mill
falls on its side) but can be disastrous if you have not thought
through every element of the move and vetted your proposed procedure
with other folk's experience. Attempting theoretical heavy moving
approaches and expecting success except through pure chance - well,
that kind of gambling is what the state lottery is for. If anyone is
tempted to do it by ear as they go along - then I would agree with
Fred's original suggestion and heartily recommend getting a
professional to do it. Mike (4976) |
| No worries. (but I was thinking if I
can get the thing on the end of a 30 foot 4x12 and I get ten of us
to jump on the other end, maybe it will just fly into the truck!)
I'm well aware of the consequences and haven't lost a load yet! The
ideal setup will be a liftgate truck, which I will rent if I can
find a suitable load rating. If not, I'll have to disassemble the
machine. Don't worry, I'll have a sling on there as well as the
eyebolt! (or a set of rollo lifts) I can't use a flatbed, because
the dock is so high. I did see a truck the other day in which the
liftgate was able to go a number of feet above the bed of the truck,
that type would be ideal. I think it will be more a matter of
finding the right rental equipment. I see what you mean about
extending the ram out and pushing the table in (X direction) to get
the motor swung upside down though. I'm going to go to the rental
place to check out their stuff as soon as I can. this will be well
planned. I will also be pricing out some machinery movers. I haven't
looked very hard yet but haven't seen anything under about $475; I
can rent a boat load of equipment for that much $$ Gotta get a few
more hands to join in the fun, which shouldn't be too bad. That is
good news any idea how much those individual parts weigh? just
want to know what to expect when they come loose! (I'm guessing 220
for the head and about 300 for the table. The engine hoist will get
used for this, if nothing else. WARNING: The worm drive
mechanisms I'm assuming the gear extends all around, so the head can
go all the way around? I noticed there was some kind of stop at
about 45 deg, is this where the gear ends or just a positive stop of
some sort? Tom (4988) |
| I'm a little late
getting in on this, so you may have moved the mill already. I
recently moved a Tree Vertical Mill with the dis-assembly-engine
hoist method and though I pulled it off it was a bit disconcerting.
My problems started with the 2" nylon webbing strap downs I
bought...The hooks were too large to fit in the D rings of the truck
I rented. So if you are going to do this with a pickup truck like I
did then consider that. And use a lot of the smaller tie downs. My
other problem occurred with flex of the engine hoist itself...in the
final configuration I was unable to fully extend the rear legs and
get it into position, the hoist tipped badly. I used straps to
secure the mill's side to side position (while the hoist secured its
vertical position) by stringing them around the mill and to an
adjacent trucking container (a Tree or other sturdy object would
work as well) that way if the hoist let go it would fall straight
down or at least away from the rental truck). I lifted the base/knee
only enough to drive the truck out from under it...I WOULD NOT TRY
TO ACTUALLY MOVE THE MILL WITH THE HOIST. Once I got it to the
ground I placed it on 1" 1/8th wall tubing runners and levered it
into position. I was working alone and it took me a day to disassemble
and unload it (it was placed on the truck by forklift from the
vendor). The roll back wrecker (with a steel bed) option in twenty
twenty hindsight sounds much more appealing. Total cost for my
method was $59.00. I'd pay a wrecker $100 and be happy for the time,
sweat, and worry I'd save. tom (4990) |
| Yes it is possible to move it with
two people, but don't hurry. A buddy and I moved mine on pipe
rollers about 75 feet, took most of the night to get in place but
well worth the effort. What we did is rented a small fork lift for
an hour or so to get it off the trailer. Didn't take that long but
there was a minimum on the lift. A 2X4 was placed between the ram
and the fork on each side of the ram, lifted it to clear the trailer
and pulled the trailer out from underneath. We set it down in the
driveway and basically skidded it as far into the (home) shop as
possible. We then took a bar and raised the front just enough to get
a 4X4 under it and then the back, slid three of four 3 inch pipe
rollers under it and removed the 4X4's. We then took the bar and
inched it into place leapfrogging the rollers as necessary. Even
with the head knuckled under and the table at its lowest point it is
still very, very top heavy so if you do it like we did, DON'T HURRY.
If it falls on you, your grease. (4991) |
| tom wrote: LOL!
Okay, maybe I was just being slightly paranoid, but I was concerned
about your health! :-))) Agreed - and the experience can be a good
one if you are careful. The other side of the coin is not having to
worry about it with a professional, but that's an individual
tradeoff that each person has to make. From an old August 1998
rec.crafts.metalworking post: I agree completely with the above. It
makes you consider each move all the way through because you know
you cannot depend on pure muscle. Just make sure if you have a lot
of help that every person is given an assignment and knows which way
to jump if something goes wrong. A spotter to yell out a warning is
probably a good idea with more than two people. That's pretty close
- figure about 500lbs for the pair. You will get a lot of use out of
the engine hoist in future years, so that's a big plus. Mine was all
of $190 at Price-Costco and worth every penny. The head is actually
doable with two people but it's kind of awkward so the engine hoist
is a good idea. The table only requires one person if you use the
"workbench" approach. Be advised there are considerable differences
in the "4,000 lb engine hoist" market. Get a good one from a
reputable company who values their customers and has deep pockets to
lose - it's an indication they've at least considered liability for
selling some of the substandard stuff that is marketed out there.
Yes, it does go all the way around, in case you want to use it as a
wood shaper. :-) Sorry, couldn't resist the temptation... The four
teenuts run in a circular track in the ram adapter. On the newer
mills there is a stop pin on the left side that must be pulled out
to go from inverted to right side up. My 1968 model does not have
that - must have been an OSHA requirement or something. The manual
sez to push it back in for safety when you've reached 20% of
vertical. Why 20%? Beats the heck outta me. Dunno why they just
didn't give a degree reading, since the scale on the side reads in
degrees...duh...one of those unexplained mysteries of life and tech
copy writers. Mike (4992) |
| Its nice to be able to have the
capability to do it again if necessary. People who use their
muscles at only 170 lbs +/-, I've been doing quite a bit of heavy
thinking lately! The table only requires one person if you I think
I'll still need 2 there. Tom (4999) |
| Moving SB13 |
| I just purchased a
SB13 with a 5 foot bed. My intentions are to remove the motor
cabinet and the legs at the tailstock end, from the headstock and
bed assembly. Am I in for a major headache when I reassemble?
Thought about also removing the spindle/pulley assembly from the
headstock. Just trying to lighten the load. There are two of us
taking this out of a basement.
(9542) |
| I just moved a SB 13" myself. I used
an engine hoist to lift the bed off the base and legs. The bolts to
remove the bed were easy to get to. I did not remove the headstock
as the hoist handled the load just fine. It seemed as though the
headstock would have come off fairly easily had it been necessary.
Of course the belt had to be removed. I hope yours isn't a one piece
job. I then slid the base on to the lift gate of a truck and moved
it that way. The whole job went surprisingly easy for 2 people. If
you decide to lift your bed with a hoist and chain, do be careful
that you don't crush the leadscrew. I put some blocks of wood around
mine to protect it. Of course moving that thing out of a basement
adds a whole new degree of difficulty. In your case I would
definitely remove the headstock and the gearbox. get it as light as
you can. Disassembly and assembly are straight forward. Alex (9543) |
| Lifting lathe |
| If you're fortunate
enough to have exposed joists, you can use either a block-and-tackle
that you can rig yourself or a "come-along". Just make sure the
bolts you use in the joists are strong enough. Set the
block-and-tackle above the bench, put the lathe on the floor next to
it and when you start hauling, have someone pull laterally so the
lathe doesn't crash into the bench. Once above benchtop height,
you're home free. Frank (13780) |
| Moving a Heavy
10 |
| How much does this
thing weigh c/w a SB bench ? How hard is it to take off the bench
and load on truck in two or more pieces? And one more, what make
of chuck is recommended, size and costs ? Mike
(13865) |
| It weighs
about a thousand pounds to move, what works nicely is using a lift
gate truck. I bolted the legs to 4x4s so I could move it on rollers
- pretty easy really As to chucks, really depends on what you are
doing and what you want to spend. If you have to buy a new one, lots
of guys are using bison. John(13870) |
| When I moved my
heavy 10 and cabinet, I unbolted the lathe from the cabinet and used
the garage rafters and a comealong at each end to lift it. the lathe
fit in my Sonoma pickup crossways in front and the cabinet (lifted
the same way) sat in the back. It was a nice and controlled method
of handling both pieces. Greg
(13873) |
| The balance point
of the lathe is approximately at the chuck. If you lift it with a
sling put the straps under the bed. I moved mine by lifting the base
with pry bars to get it onto a couple of planks and then put rollers
(pieces of pipe) under the planks. You have to be careful because it
is top heavy and if the rollers come out of one side first it can
fall over. Having help is recommended. JP (13875) |
| I used an Engine
Hoist and Load Leveller to lift mine before moving out to the van. I
had to take the lathe off the cabinet as the unit was too tall to go
through the van door in one lump. Winding the saddle back towards
the tail stock end got the lathe balance something near central. I
taped some rough carved wood blocks to the sides of the bed just
inboard of the feet to protect bed, lead screw and taper turning
attachment from the lifting chains. I padded the lifting chains
before passing them under the bed just inboard of the feet and tied
them back to the feet. After unhooking the belt and undoing the
holding down bolts the engine crane lifted it off the bench sweet as
you like and a few turns of the leveler adjuster got it nice and
flat. With the lathe off moving the cabinet base by pry-bar, rollers
and planks was easy. I always take some extra timber to fit cross
braces front and rear to the planks so that everything stays
together, much more civilized. If you are at all unsure of the
surface you will be moving over its worth obtaining some cheap
plywood to make a roadbed. Having some hefty castors on hand I
usually knock up a timber base "skateboard" trolley for moving things
like lathes out to the van after taking them off the bench. Keeps
the weight close to the floor which is much safer. If you are well
prepared the job goes easily and safely, if not you can get well and
truly stuck, or worse, drop it. One of the big, high lift, hydraulic
trolley jacks can be handy too (Northern Tools do one at a not too
silly prices, vastly superior to the usual small things sold for
home mechanics and well worth the money if you do your own
servicing). Smallest crew is three, two do the work whilst the other
watches for things getting out of shape and advises or dives in to
help straighten things up if necessary. Clive
(13882) |
| As others have said
the weight is about 800-1000 Lb depending on bed length, etc. Others
have given lots of advice for moving it mostly assembled. There is
another overall approach if you are willing to spend just a little
more time. You can break the lathe down into a pile of significantly
lighter pieces quite easily. Take off the tailstock (just slide it
off the end). Temporarily disconnect the leadscrew tail end bearing
and run the carriage/apron right off the end as well, being careful
not to bend the leadscrew. Put the leadscrew bearing back, just to
hold up the leadscrew. In the underneath drive, slide the
countershaft part way out to get the belt loose. Now take the
bed/headstock off the table, and the complete underneath drive out
of the table. This set of parts is carryable (one at a time) by 2
ordinary people, and can be put in a van, station wagon, etc, and
you can also carry them down stairs to the basement reasonably
easily if that's where you want to put it. There are no difficult
realignment issues on reassembly. This also gives you a chance to
look things over a bit more carefully and scoop out some of the
chips and goop likely stuffed everywhere while it is apart. Frank
(13883) |
| If I take the lathe off the base is it
possible to get the belt off the motor and out of the base with the
lathe? Mike
(13884) |
| I have the Heavy 10
that has the desk type base. It was easily picked up with a regular
rental engine puller (aka cherry picker). However, the hoist would
not raise it high enough to load. I simple broke it into 2 parts and
moved the crosslide to the tailstock end for balance and loaded it
in 2 pieces. The base was then similarly loaded. Both parts were
loaded and easily carried in a 1985 Mitsubishi pickup (not the most
heavy duty truck in the world). (13885) |
| I think this
will be the trick here. I have a GMC van and the doors are only
about 46" high. And the dealer said he would help take it apart.
Can't complain about that. Mike (13886) |
| Lots of
good suggestions have been made, but here's a few alternatives. Got
any friends with a pickup truck? 1 pick up + 1 engine crane = nice
easy move. Ask a few local towing firms if they have any experience
moving lathes, and how much they would charge. A roll back and an
experienced driver can do some very slick stuff. Put the lathe on a
pallet made of two layers of 3/4 ply and 4X4's, and secure it to the
pallet well. Makes winching on and off the roll back much easier and
safer for the lathe and the people involved. You'll probably still
need an engine crane for final positioning, although rollers and
Johnson bars can do a lot of moving. We've moved 15 inch lathes in a
shop with floor jacks and movers dollies, but it takes 2 people who
have worked together and some pieces of thick wood to pull it off. A
sense of humor helps when doing this. Rent a pick up or the smallest
U Haul box truck you can find and an engine crane. Save the van
interior and have an easy time securing tie downs. Use the
ratcheting style of hold downs, one end of each secured to the
lathe, the other end to a tie down. If you intend to overhaul this
lathe, an engine crane that sells new for under $200 is a good
investment, cheaper than renting one several times. Around here I
think the rent on a crane is $35 a day. Once you have one, you'll
find all sorts of used for it. Stan (13889) |
| If you are
going to use a strap under the bed to lift it you should block with
wood around the leadscrew so you don't bend it. Walt
(13892) |
| Frank, I
didn't do it that way. I had a tandem axle trailer with a winch so
loading was no problem.... but it almost caused one. I needed a
"lathe in a hurry" so I didn't want to do any more than necessary to
get ths thing in my shed and making chips. The 1/8" thick, 4" square
chunks of falling 60 year old falling paint made some sort of
cleaning necessary but my "quick and dirty" cleanup didn't quite go
as planned. Every layer of paint I removed revealed more hidden
problems. I suddenly understood why it was so cheap. The guy who
sold it to me did exactly as I thought, and was told, I should do...
"just move it in and use it." I very nearly did. Mostly, wanting to
get rid of a huge chip pan (about 4 feet by 8 feet) caused me to
remove the legs. Doing that told me why the guy thought the bed was
worn out. Most of the bolts were loose and the 14 gage chip pan was
between legs and bed in some places but not in others. I also found
the tailstock legs had been broken and welded about twenty coats of
paint ago. The more I found, the more curious I got about "what
else?" I wound up stripping it to the bare bed and along the way, I
found the headstock clamp almost ready to fall out on one end and
barely snug on the other. I found thick layers of gunk between
mating surfaces and enough 50 year-old swarf to share a few ponds
with each of you and still keep plenty for myself. I just posted
some photos of my adventures under "Mediasmith" in the SB photos
group... including one where my shirt got too close to my Miller
Falls 9 inch hand grinder. I think this old lathe is gonna scrub up
real good. All of the problems I have found would cause enormous
operational problems but they can all be fixed by cleaning and
proper reassembly. I feel very comfortable I will wind up with a
much better machine than both the seller and I thought I bought. Had
I not followed the trail to the end, there is a very high
probability I would have faced some very expensive repairs in short
order. Do yourself a favor and take Frank's advice. I wish I had.
WDSmith (13898) |
| Moving a sb9
|
| I am looking to
purchase a SB9 Model A with the under motor mount and the attached
stand. I am trying to find out how much it weighs before I do this.
Also, if anybody has moved a lathe before, I could use some ideas. I
need to move the lathe about 10 miles. I know I can take it apart
and do it in pieces and this may be a good idea as the lathe needs a
new paint job and some minor work, but I have been using this lathe
for about 10 years and I know it pretty well. If I don't have to
take it apart I would prefer not to. Any ideas as to the best way to
move the lathe. Mark
(18533) |
| I have a 10L (heavy
10) on a similar bench with 6 drawers and two doors. I removed the
4 bolts holding the lathe to the bench along with the pin in the
flat belt. The tail stock can easily be removed also. The lathe was
then movable by one person sliding it on a 2x10 board. To move the
bench you can remove another 4 bolts then get the underdrive off.
Then the bench is movable. The idea is to work smart and hot hurt
the lathe or yourself. I had to move mine to my basement. It was
loaded onto my pickup truck with a overhead crane. Joe R (18535) |
| 1000 lbs with the
steel cabinet. We moved it via a rigging company that had a forklift
and a tilt flat bed truck and they only charged me about $50 as we
only had to move it about a mile. I have moved it around in my
garage by myself by putting it on small pieces of round stock and it
moves fairly easy. Norm
(18536) |
| Attach the legs to
two stout 2x8' using the bolt holes in the bottom of the
legs/cabinet mounts. Use round stock (1" approximately) to roll it
around. Aim the round stock in the direction you want the lathe to
move. Use leverage NOT muscle. Do you need to go up or down a flight
of stairs? Let me know and I'll advise. Eric (18537) |
| If you
simply disconnect the belt and unbolt the 4 bolts at the feet, 2
people can lift the lathe into a truck. Its the cabinet with
countershaft and motor that is the heavy part. (18539) |
| Rent an automotive
cherry picker that is either tow behind or breaks down. Use it to
pick up the lathe in one piece and put it in the bed of your pickup.
Drive home, stopping by the auto parts store for spray gunk and them
detour by the (used to be called) quarter car wash. Been there done
that with a heavy 10 in a 1/2 ton Mitsubishi pick up. Its really
quite easy--just be sure to double check the necessary lift height
to get into the bed of the pickup. (18540) |
| You can take off
the tail stock by sliding it off the end. You can usually take the
saddle off by cranking to the end of the rack (may have to take off
the right hand lead screw bearing) and that should lighten it up a
bit. Warning, lathes are top heavy so be careful when lifting it. I
moved mine by bolting timbers under the feet and having four people
do the lifting and moving (Lucky I have four strong young grandsons
near by and one grand daughter to cheer them on.) (18545) |
| I will strip down what I can and then will load the lathe
on a low bed trailer. Some body suggested a U-haul motorcycle
trailer. It has some bars on the sides that will accept some hold
downs. I have a few weeks to prepare for the move. Mark (18581) |
| Getting it home
|
| I am
going to inspect a south bend 10" heavy in the next couple of days
and if it's not a heap of rust I'll probably buy it. This size lathe
is new to me and the "A Newbie's Guide to Resurrecting a Lathe"
chapter on getting your baby home isn't available yet; I am looking
for suggestions on how to get this baby home! Do I just bite the
bullet (checkbook) and hire a rigger or what do I need to
rent/construct to do the job on my own? Paul (18998) |
| FWIW, 1 Ask the
present owner if he has any suggestions or can advise on a local
transporter. he may have a favorite or a method you haven't known
about. 2. make sure you have an ample supply of comealongs ( 2 or 3
at least) skids or planks ( 3 or 4 at least, better to have 6-10)
some chain binders to secure the load ( not over the ways, thank
you) and then a battery drill with a few dozen 2-3" decking or
drywall woodscrews and a few 2x4's is often handy to arrange
blocking. also nice to have a short sharp saw handy to trim these to
fit snug locations for blocking. a little ingenuity can snug this
machine into a pickup bed so it can hardly shift using these items.
3. the machine can be taken down into smaller parts if you have the
time. if you are going to refurbish it anyway you can take a passel
of digital pics while dismantling and use these for re-assembly
instructions. there are a goodly number of odd-shaped parts that can
take a picture ( or a few thousand words) to explain their fit so
this is a handy method. 4. take tools for dismantling, rigging,
securing with straps, and for snugging up items for travel.
Manhandling this beast is a fast prescription for a hospital visit,
even with a good crew of longshoremen to do the lifting. use the
machines to do the work, brainpower to do the thinking. human
muscles are just along for the ride and to set up the cribbing and
blocking. hope you have a happy and safe trip, and the new baby
comes home smiling and ready to get to work. Paul (19000) |
| I got my 10L (heavy
ten) into my basement by taking the lathe off the desk, removing the
tail stock and chuck and slid it down a 2by12 plank through a
window. The desk was actually heavier, for that I removed the six
drawers and motor drive assembly. But that was 25 years ago and I
was 25 years younger. More recently, maybe 10 years ago, I took the
lath only out the same way to have the bed scraped. If your getting
it from a shop, ask if they have a overhead crane, that's how I got
mine on my 62 VW pickup truck. Once home I raised it by a chain
attached to the garage door header and drove the truck off then
lowered it gently. Find some big friends and a trailer. Just secure
it before moving off. Joe R (19006) |
| If you are new to
home machinist world, There is an interesting web page to read
before you bid. http://www.mermac.com/advicenew.html It is a guide
on how to assess the condition of a lathe. It is well written. Now,
if you buy it and plan on a complete overhaul, then buy Machine tool
reconditioning. Chapt 26 is an exhaustive description of lathe
re-construction that includes a good section on lathe alignment. Guy
(19009) |
| Where does one get
this book you mention? I did a search on Google and didn't come up
with anything with that title. (19010) |
| Machine Tool
reconditioning is advertised in Home Shop Machinist. It is sold by
Machine Tool Publications 935 Holley Ave St-Paul Park Minnesota
55071 651-458-1540 Once in a while, I see copies on ebay. Guy
(19013) |
| Paul Getting your
heavy 10 home is the simplest thing in the world. Just talk to the
local garage that has a wrecker. Tell him where the lathe is and
where your workshop is. Also, tell him to avoid putting his straps
around the leadscrew, so as to not bend it. He will lift it, strap
it crosswise behind his wrecker, and put it down right where you
want it. You don't need millwrights, riggers, etc. It weighs 1200
pounds and is top heavy, so observe the usual precautions. Harold
(19027) |
| Paul; You will no
doubt get lots of ideas from the list as this subject seems to come
up fairly often. I have moved a number of machines in the small
class(500 to 1000lbs.)including my SB Heavy 10, and here is what I
have settled on. After several moves which required complete
disassembly and reconstruction, I finally bought a shop crane (also
known as an engine hoist) on sale from Harbor Freight for $149.00. It
has turned out to be one of the best investments I have made. This
will allow you to make the lift of the entire machine. An additional
accessory for the crane that is useful is a load leveler which
simply allows you to adjust the load laterally to balance evenly.
This device sells for about $25.00 also at Harbor Freight, and is
particularly useful on a load like a lathe that concentrates weight
on one end. Shop cranes can also be rented in most cities. I use a
low 4X8 ft. open trailer similar to those you see people hauling
lawnmowers on. Even if I had access to a truck, I would still use
the trailer for reasons I will explain. If you don't own or have
someone to borrow a trailer from, you can rent from U Haul. The
combination of a LOW trailer and the engine hoist will allow you to
lift and move amazing amounts of weight (for a homeowner). If you
use a pickup truck, the load will be so high, you will need a
forklift or gantry crane to get it out of the truck. OK if you have
one, but most HSMs don't. Now what you do when you get it home
depends a lot on your shop access and where you want to put it. The
ideal situation is a walkout basement you can back your trailer up
to, or a garage shop at the same level of the driveway. If you have
steps going to the basement it is a little more difficult. A Heavy
10 with the pedestal base, could be moved into your garage and
disassembled for a piece by piece move to the basement using a
refrigerator dolly. Those with the big pressed steel cabinet style
underneath drives are bulky, and the cabinet with the drive weighs
300-400 lbs by itself. If the lathe is of this type, and you have a
basement move, you want to consider this. This may figure into your
decision to buy. All of us have done these moves and it is an
adventure at first. After a few moves, it almost becomes a
standardized procedure. Plan carefully, and go slow. Perk (19028) |
| When I got to the lathe, the first thing I
found wrong with it was: it was sold! Does one need track shoes to
purchase a lathe? g Still, they let me inspect the lathe anyway.
Using Dave Mermac's article Helpful Tips on Evaluating a Lathe, I
determined I probably didn't want to buy it anyway; at least not at
the price offered. It had been cleaned up, but the ways looked in
places like the lathe had been secured for transport with tow chains
and when doing the carriage movement test, I only got 2 inches of
movement from the head before binding tight, and 26 thou backlash on
the crossfeed. Maybe just sour grapes, but combined with no tooling
and only a 3 jaw, I thought, "they wanted too much, anyway." Well,
back to the want ads; if you all know of a 9"/10" for sale within a
few hours of Pittsburgh, let me know. I know the Chinese need to eat
too, but I can't quite bring myself to buy a 9x20 from them. Keeping
the track shoes by the door! Paul
(19044) |
| Paul, A guy on this forum was just telling me he had a 10" for sale. He
is in Cleveland and his username is Tracy(19045) |
| Yes,
I do have a heavy ten for sale and I live in Cleveland, OH. I don't
have any tooling for it though. I have a five inch chuck but no
backing plate. This might well be the first project for a new owner.
I have two of them that is why I'm selling one. Is anyone interested
in a complete original fluid cooling pump device from south bend for
one of these machines? (19050) |
| Take heart, there
are a lot of SB 9's and tens out there. All kinds of conditions so
you may have to sift thru the data often to find just what you are
looking for but there is still a fairly active market in them. One
thing unfortunately becoming more common is the speculators are
buying them up and selling off parts and accessories separately,
they make $ doing this and the leftover parts still sell for
something. Paul (19051) |
| Here is something
note about this type of hoists if you should consider moving other
machinery with them. About 3 weeks ago, I used my Chinese hoist to
move my newly acquired Van Norman mill into it's little corner of my
garage. I first had to modify it with wider socket attachments for
it's removable legs since the original configuration was too narrow
to fit around the mill's base. This might be something to consider
when buying one of these hoists if you plan on moving anything that
requires lowering within the space afforded by the hoist's legs.
After I modified it, I was able to easily get the hoist where I
needed it over the ram of the mill in order to center it and I had
room to pivot the mill as well. However, there was another problem.
The hoist's factor of safety is ONE! I removed the motor from the
top of my mill along with the mounting plate and the over ram. This
should have brought the weight of the mill very close to 2000 lbs. I
used the hoist's 2000 lb (I needed the boom length at this setting)
setting and it promptly buckled at the jacking point. Not only that,
there was elongation at the boom's outer tube tip where the
extending part of the boom telescopes. I ended up having to
triangulate the boom with a piece of pipe and some of the world's
most expensive (if you think steel is expensive where you are, try
living in a remote west TX town) steel strap. I did manage to move
my mill after doing this but afterward, I found the hoist's base had
started to buckle as well. So be weary about the claimed capacity of
these types of hoists. In the end, I would have saved time and money
had I just rented a proper hoist. Ramon (19093) |
| Ramon; Your message
is interesting. I have wondered what it would be like making a lift
near maximum capacity with my Chinese hoist. Well, I think you have
answered that for me. So far, I have only made lifts up to about
1000 lbs. Knowing what you experienced will help in planning future
purchases and moves. Perk (19094) |
| I would always
derate any Chinese (and most USA made)
lifting/jacking/pulling/pressing devices to 50% of rated. In the
case of an engine crane, you need to worry about marginal stability
as well as marginal strength if you overload it. Once you have one,
you will be surprised at how much you use it so buy the biggest one
you can move and store. (19095) |
| Ramon, we used one
of those Harbor Freight cranes in disassembling our 16" SBL. It did
came in very handy. However, when lifting the bed (which is only 6
feet long) I was nervous the whole time we had it up in the air, as
we were also using tow straps from Harbor Freight. Now, after
reading your post, I'll probably be even more nervous when it comes
time to lift (and move) that bed again. Thanks for the heads-up.
BTW, do you have any pics showing the damage to your crane and how
you beefed it up? (19096) |
| Ramon: Check your
boom figures. On mine it is 4000# when shortened as far as it can
go. When extended out its farthest, which is what I think you said
you did, mine has only a 1000# limit. It is a Princess Auto Unit (Offshore for sure). Ron (19099) |
| Ron, My boom has
clear (if overly optimistic) labels on the appropriate holes for
setting the telescoping part of the boom. There was one more
extension that would have given me another 18 inches or so but the
setting is like on yours at 1000 lbs. Ramon (19124) |
| I'll get some pics
and post them on the photo section sometime soon. I'll also break
out my mechanics of materials book and analyze the scenario. Now
that I think about it some more, the boom was some 15- 20 degrees up
from vertical so the perpendicular load on the boom must have been
even less. Ramon (19125) |
| Moving Lathe |
| I may be
getting one of these tomorrow, and was wondering what the easiest
way to lighten it up to move it? What can I remove and how do I do
so? I have done some searches and not found any information. Ray
(19893) |
| If it's a 9"
SB you're asking about, it comes apart remarkably easy and into nice
bit-sized little chunks. Examine the tailstock first .. slide it off
the back of the ways. See the plate that locks it into place ? There
are two similar plates holding the headstock on. 9/16" socket with
FINE feed ratchet (not a lot of room to rotate), done. The leadscrew
should be obvious to remove, with or with QCGB installed. Remove it
next. Two large bolts up front hold the cross-slide to the apron,
with two more small ones "in back" under the ways. Even being old
and feeble, I was able to get mine out of the second floor of the
factory where it had been abused for years, into my wagon, all using
the PITIFUL and EMBARRASSING excuse for tools I keep in the back of
the car. Then into my shop for serious cleaning and up onto its new
bench, all single-handed, Alan (19897) |
| If you remove the
tailstock, chuck and headstock you can leave the qc box and
leadscrew and it can easily be moved by 2 people although I can and
have carried the remains alone. This presumes the rear drive is, of
course, off. (19903) |
| I ended
up with a single owner 9" Model A lathe with many of the original
boxes - but no paperwork. It needs cleaning and I have been looking
at the parts list and they show shims under the head stock. Where do
I find information on aligning this when I get it back together?
Ray (19907) |
| Getting a new
lathe |
| They come in
different bed lengths. Mine is a 4.5 foot overall width. It's heavy
so put down a piece of plywood or you'll bend your car. Mine is a
desk model and the desk and under drive motor is very heavy. Three
bolts takes the motor off my desk though. Your cast iron pedestals
may be lighter and are definitely smaller. Be very careful lifting
it with a sling to not bend the lead screw. Joe (20377) |
| Kevin: I do not
think it will fit! Rent a U-haul. Gary (20378) |
| If you separate
into 3 basic assemblies: pedestal, lathe and legs, it should fit
easily (looks like you have a 3-1/2 ft bed) with your seats down.
But, will you have help loading? If not, the problem is that the
pedestal and lathe assemblies are each too heavy for one person (at
least for me). When disassembling the pedestal, the tough part for
me was driving out the tapered pin holding the big pulley on - it
required heat, penetrating oil, and muscle. Only then could I take
out the counter shaft/motor mount. If you need to lighten the lathe
bed, everything comes right off easy enough, but I had trouble with
the QC gearbox. I had to grind some screwdriver bits for a perfect
fit, soak the screws with penetrating oil for a few days, before
whacking them again with the impact screwdriver. BTW, if you don't
find a link in the drive belt, you will have to cut it. If you
decide against (or don't have time for) a full disassembly, and are
by yourself, I would say you'll need a small cherry picker, in which
case the hoist AND your lathe will probably NOT fit in your
explorer. The best way is to rent/borrow a small, low trailer.
Loading is a snap, and even if you need to bring a cherry picker you
can load that on the trailer too, or easily take apart and put it in
the Explorer. Jeff (20379) |
| I did what Jeff is
basically saying - broke the heavy 10 down (I got it from work) into
its basic assemblies and four workmates (we're not spring chickens!)
manhandled it onto my small trailer. The other end was easy as I
backed the trailer into my garage and chainblocked it off. The
pedestal (the single heaviest piece) I put onto a knocked up trolley
(chip-board on castors) to enable moving it about for overhauling,
cleaning and painting etc. It all went very well and I now have a
superb reconditioned lathe. Dave (20383) |
| That's pretty
funny. I think your first problem is you will be very near the load
capacity of your Explorer, much less beign able to fit all of that
inside. Better check on the nearest U-haul trailer rental place.
(20395) |
| Kevin- I think in
theory it wont be a problem, but in reality it will be a pain. Be
sure to bring at least one other helper. The pedestal base under the
headstock weighs several hundred pounds alone. It is a huge pain in
the rear to disassemble any of the innards of that base. (motor,
countershaft). Other then that, the rest will come apart very fast
and be manageable by 1 person. Jeff (20396) |
| Well, I got it
home. We ended up taking it all apart. We still had to use a
forklift to get the base into my Explorer. That sucker is heavy!
Once I got home, I used a little hydraulic lift table to wrestle it
from the truck to the ground... Here are a few pictures of the
experience:
http://www.kgregg.com/lathe/LatheInTruck1.jpg
http://www.kgregg.com/lathe/LatheInTruck2.jpg
http://www.kgregg.com/lathe/GetLatheOut1.JPG
http://www.kgregg.com/lathe/GetLatheOut2.JPG
http://www.kgregg.com/lathe/GetLatheOut3.JPG
http://www.kgregg.com/lathe/LatheOut1.jpg
http://www.kgregg.com/lathe/LatheOut2.jpg
http://www.kgregg.com/lathe/LathePieces1.jpg It's back
together now, but i don't have a permanent spot for it yet... I also
need to wire up a 220 outlet and wire the lathe up for reverse. Once
that's done, I think I'm set. I have one other question while I'm
thinking about it. On my Taig, the saddle uses brass gibs. Looking
at the saddle on the SB, it doesn't appear as though it uses any
gibs. Maybe that explains why the bed is worn? Why does the cross
slide use an insertable gib and the saddle doesn't?
Kevin (20404) |
| Thank you for
sharing those pix with us - Quite a haul! I found them very
interesting. frank (20407) |
| I forgot to mention
that the explorer has an upgraded suspension. Seemed to pull it ok
and didn't sag. (20409) |
| I learned
something. I have a 1/2 ton pickup and have been shopping for a 10.
Now I know if I can break it down into three main pieces I can
manhandle the thing home. (20416) |
| Yesterday, a good
friend of mine was checking out my new f350. He knows nothing about
cars/trucks. He was looking underneath and asked me why there were
rubber bumpers on the frame above the rear end. I told him, "that
when those touch, that's how you know when it's full". Jeff
(20417) |
I transported my
heavy 10 (all parts) in my 1985 Mitsubishi 1/2 ton pickup (202,000
miles ) with no problem whatsoever.
(20420) |
| I have put
them whole into 1/2 ton pickups! No need to break it down. Jeff
(20422) |
| I recently bought a 13" SB that weighs about 1700 pounds. I
rented a trailer (3500 lb axle) for $18. Bought two, 10' long 2x10s
for ramps, and brought along two teenage boys, a wire come-along,
chains, ropes, etc. Plus, what was indispensable - a pinch bar,
crowbar, and pipe for levering the beast around. We supported the
2x10 ramps with some bricks, then pulled it up the ramps with the comealong. No problem. Did not disassemble anything. Much easier
when I got it home - just pulled the trailer into my shop under the
one-ton lifting beam and chain hoist, lifted it, drove the trailer
out from under it. So, get the weight, the size, and figure out your
method ahead of time. Ed (20436) |
| Can I remove the
slide and tailstock from the bed, then remove the motor/drive from
the bench, then the rest of the gearbox/headstock/bed from the bench
and load all of these in a pickup bed? Will they be light enough for
a couple of guys to manhandle? Brian (20482) |
| Brian- that is
exactly how it is done. a couple of tips: bring a box of gallon zip-loq
type bags, a socket set, and a couple of adjustable wrenches, LOTS
AND LOTS OF RAGS and maybe a chip brush. if you have never done this
before, grab a digi-camera or disposable 35mm jobber and take a
whole lot of pics. it may seem senseless, but take pics of
assemblies BEFORE to take them off. Take ALL 27 pictures. You will
be glad you did later if you need them. True story: at the great
boys tech auction/cast-iron free for all of '03, 2 of us stripped a
vertical drive 9" junior on legs with nothing more than a chi-wanese
crescent wrench, and a Leatherman tool. Truck was 25 feet from the
lathe. Nothing more, nothing less. Took 30 minutes in and out. dennis (20487) |
| Brian The question
depends on something . The two guys. If you are young and able to
lift fair amounts or old f... like me and want as light as possible.
The last one I moved in a pickup bed we pulled the bed from the
cabinet and took off the tailstock. Then we backed the pickup up to
the edge of the cabinet and slid the bed onto the bed of the pickup
off the cabine bed. Worked very well and not a lot of lifting to do.
We then tilted the cabinet on its end and with one end up in the air
backed up to it and then lifted the other end and slid it in beside
the lathe bed. (cabinet was a little tricky because of being so big
and awkward but not bad). Must admit to unload we had a chain hoist
in the ceiling there. And I have done them the complete disassembly
way also it is just easier if you don't have to but this is just an
option. Grumpy (20492) |
| Brian, I just
recently moved my 9. I removed the tailstock, cross slice, saddle,
then I removed the headstock and the gear box, leadscrew and the
bed. I left the motor in the base. Me and a buddy lifted the base
with motor into the back of my minivan. No problem. I did however
use ratchet type tie downs to make sure the base did not move during
transport. A pickup is a little higher, but a lot of people on this
list have used a pickup to move their lathes. If the bed is too
high, rent a low trailer the type used by the lawn guys. That is a
lot lower than the bed of your truck. Mark (20493) |
| Grumpy, That was
kind of what I was thinking. We can get furniture dollies under the
thing and roll it to the door. Remove the tailgate from the truck,
remove the tailstock and carriage, then remove the lathe from the
bench. "Just" swing the lathe off the bench onto the truck bed and
work it in, and then as you suggest horse the bench in. One thing I
found was by running my hand under the chip tray, is that it appears
to be sheet steel, not anything light. We have access to a forklift,
but I have a real aversion to just honking that thing up under the
ways, or grabbing it under the table and doing damage just because I
didn't want to take it apart. Brian (20517) |
| I too wouldn't lift
under the chip tray, it is sheet metal and is likely to bend and
cause the whole thing to slide (disaster!) one way or another. That,
or the relatively small bolts that fasten it to the pedestal might
possibly pull out (the balance point is nearly under the chuck,
meaning those two little bolts would be carrying almost the entire
lathe). Nothing wrong with carefully placing the forks above the pan
and below the bed, and gently lifting. Jeff (20519) |
| I have lifted a
3500 lb Rockford lathe with a tow motor. I put 2" x4"s under the bed
with one right next to the headstock. This kept the forks away from
the leadscrew and feedscrew. The wood helps to keep the lathe from
slipping and metal on metal would be hard to stop once it started to
slide. It shouldn't hurt the lathe and as stated above the balance
point is right next to the headstock with the tailstock and carriage
all the way on the opposite end. Be very careful as big lathes are
very top heavy. Paul (20521) |
| I brought home my
heavy 10 in one piece on an appliance dolly set at the motor end. We
lifted the tail end to the balance point and took it slow and easy
from a loading dock into a box truck and then from the box truck
down the ramp into my garage. No worse than a piano. Ray (20525) |
| Lifting Heavy
10 |
| Is it proper
or reasonable to lift a heavy 10 using an eye bolt and block under
the bed at the headstock ? (20527) |
| That should
work just fine as the bed will support the entire weight of the
machine. I would use a hardwood block and make sure it wont slide
back and forth under the bed. Paul (20533) |
| When I moved mine
it was with a nylon strap around the bed at the balance point (at
the chuck) with a block of wood next to the leadscrew so the strap
would not put side pressure on it and bend it. JP (20534) |
| Moving a 10k |
| I would like to
move my 10K (underneath motor) down to the basement, but that means
stairs. This is a heavy piece of equipment. I was wondering if
anyone has any words of wisdom regarding hauling one of these down
stairs? I hoped that I could simply remove the lathe from the base,
but the belt is one continuous loop (not laced), and can't be
removed from the headstock (there's a bar under the spindle) or the
drive cone (the yoke surrounds it entirely). Short of cutting the
belt, I don't know how to remove the lathe from the base. I could
remove the motor to help lighten it, though re-installing it could
be a back-breaker of a job. Ed (21009) |
| I moved my 10"
heavy down a set of straight stairs. Your lather weighs about 1000
pound, but certainly no more. Some questions: Can you access the
area under the stairs to add supports to the strir frame members? If
so you can add vertical supports every 16" to brack the structure.
Add a length of plywood down the stair case, tie the machine to a
heavy object and let it slide inch by inch down the ramp. As you get
toward the bottom you will notice that the back end of the lathe
will want to hop down the last couple of feet and slam against the
floor. Use some 4x4 and 2x4 material laid crosswise to "ease" the
machine on to the horizontal floor. I am in VA and if you are near
by I'd be glad to come over and assist. Our machinists club often
calls on me to help out. Eric (21012) |
| The lathe itself is a light 10, and probably weighs about
300lb, but the stair has a right-angle bend. And it's in a house, so
there isn't much in the way of heavy things to tie off to. If I can
find a place to get a belt from that is not outrageously expensive,
I may just cut the belt, dismantle, and carry it down in sections.
Ed (21014) |
| You can remove the
spindle with little effort. This allows the belt to be removed. The
two screws on the journals should be loose and the threaded
retaining nut on the rear must be removed. Tap the spindle out with
a soft hammer or a wooden block. Place something on the ways to
prevent a booboo, As you remove the spindle the oil wicks will pop
up. There are small holes in the jounals just above the oil ports.
Wires inserted into these holes can be used to keep the wicks in
please when you reassemble. As long as you have the spindle out clean
the wicks and the oil reservoirs. If you haven't added the roller
thrust washer modification to the back of rear journal now would be
a good time to consider doing it. Jim B (21016) |
| Disassemble the
lathe, put 2x 12's on the steps, slide the lathe down the steps on
Styrofoam. Use a rope and have at least 2 guys holding the rope.
Dolly the parts to your new location. It is much easier going down
than up! Paul (21018) |
| Jim, His lathe is
an underdrive model, There is a casting rib between the
belt. Bob (21019) |
| Yes, the headstock
itself is cast with a longitudinal support beneath the spindle,
which I discovered AFTER removing the spindle... Looks like I may
have to cut the belt. Anyone used these glued belts? Are they
pricey? do they require specialized equipment to install, or just
the glue and a clamp? Ed (21020) |
| I moved my 10k
underneath drive by just cutting the belt and moving base and lathe
separately. Changing motor a royal pain but not a real back-breaker.
Frank (21021) |
| If you have to cut
a glued one, you can always lace it back up or add a clip. (21023) |
| I have a bunch of
the alligator crimps for belts about 12" long. If anyone needs a
couple I'll cut them to 3" and send them out FOC. Email me off list
with address. If you are going to glue it back, you need to cut a
scarf line I believe, where you are cutting an angle not only in
plane with the belt, but also tapered across the belt. I'm pretty
sure this would give the best glue surface. Paul (21024) |
| Having just
struggled moving in a mill of about the same weight/dimensions my
advice would be to dismantle all that you can. Especially the motor.
Then I would rent an appliance dolly. These have a roller belt at
the base of the back that rolls along the corner of each step so
that you don't have that large change in the direction of force as
the wheels go off of each step. They also usually have straps built
into them and stand at least 6' tall. I would move the table and
lathe with it on its side, the bottom against the side of the dolly,
gear/motor side down. As a 3-person project, two at the top and one
at the bottom, it should work well. I am assuming less than 500#
weight and everyone in reasonable good condition, though. If you
wish to cut the belt assuming that I don't screw up the installation
of a belt that I have on order I should have extra alligator clips
left over that I'd be happy to send to you at cost. Gene
(21030) |
| I moved my heavy 10
in one piece including tail stock using a good commercial appliance
dolly. We put the dolly under the motor end, tightened one strap
around the motor pedestal and one around the bed. We lifted the tail
end to the balance point and four of us moved it down the ramp ( two
young bulls, a manager and myself). Very doable. Ray (21032) |
| Think about putting
a 4x4 across the door jambs use padding to protect the wood. Use a
rope block to the lathe the end of the rope can go down the stairs
this will let the person on it stay back around the corner and out
of harms way. It does not take a lot to control it but one H..... of
a lot to stop it if it will go around the turn it should not be a
lot of trouble. Just don't get between it and something solied you
are the softist thing there . It can be done. Tom (21036) |
| Just put some
tape around the belt to hold if fairly tight to the casting, being
very careful not to kink it in any place. After all it already is a
perfect fit! (21037) |
| Cut the belt. Lots
of info in the archives, files and FAQ. Suppliers listed in many
places as well. dennis (21039) |
| Protecting
ways from rust in transit |
| I will be shipping
a heavy 10 in a wooden crate by ship to Moscow Russia. I am
concerned about the salt in the air while at sea causing rust. I was
wondering what you folks would recommend to put on lathe ways to
protect them from rust. Would it be bad/wrong to put something like
bearing grease or even Vaseline on it for transit? Obviously it
would not be run like this but just for the ride in the crate.
Something thick like that, that I can smear on with my fingers to
the unpainted surfaces. I know whatever I use will be a pain to
clean up/off but it is better then rust. Jeff (21624) |
| Jeff, Cosmoline is
an old paste that's used to protect metal, usually on guns for long
term storage. RIG is a light grease that is used for long term
storage on guns. Might check into an airtight container for
shipment. That is what a company I work for used to ship equipment
from Germany to the US, no grease or other protectants used. Might
use some type of grease on the bare metal parts, then a VIP strip
and use the shrink wrap film around the whole lathe. Tom (21625) |
| Only experience I
have with anything like that is cosmoline. Never used it on a lathe,
but it keeps old guns in good condition. Jeff (21631) |
| Jeff, buy an
aerosol can of LPS-3. This stuff works! RichD (21633) |
| Not sure if you can
get Cosmoline today anymore. Southbend recommends grease for a lathe
in inactive storage. What Lycoming does on aircraft engines just
before international shipping is to put a plastic bag over it and
evacuate it (they also use a preservative oil). My guess is if you
coat the bare surfaces with grease and then put a thick plastic bag
over it and attach a shop vac to remove excess air you could
probably get a fair level of protection for shipping through
questionable environments. A clear bag will help going through
customs. JP (21634) |
| You can buy
Cosmoline from Brownell's, a gun smith supply store.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/Home/default.aspx Good
luck with your shipping. Chris (21635) |
| CRC soft seal.
Torfinn (21636) |
| I knew about cosmoline but had no idea how/where
to buy it. I will try the gun smith place. Jeff (21637) |
| Jeff, I have heard
that Boshield T-9 is a good protectant. It is suppose to protect
steel from flash rust for up to six month's. It was developed by
Boeing Aircraft. Grizzly Industrial carries it. You spray or wipe it
on, and it dries to a wax like film. Jeff (21638) |
| McMaster-Carr
http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=1947 Also
the manufacturer, Houghton
http://www.houghtonintl.com/ Scott Logan (21639) |
| Cosmoline is the
most common type used. there are some industrial ones made also but
they may be unavailable in small quantities like this. I would
suggest you look at a commercially available type such as a wire
rope spray lubricant. this stuff goes on with a solvent base and
when the solvent evaporates, there is a very tenacious and thick
film of a very heavy grease. its not easy to get this stuff off -
must use solvent of some kind. It is made to lubricate wire winch
line and open gearing for cranes and winches, available at many
industrial tool and parts shops and probably a lot of auto parts
places also. This stuff is sticker than STP and heavier than Crisco,
I have no doubt that it would do the trick. I would also do the
plastic wrap or the bag thing and make sure there is NO paper
against the metal unless you are using the properly treated paper.
regular paper will make the metal rust, even if it is oil treated,
because of some of the hygroscopic acids left in the paper
attracting moisture and other volatile corrosives. Jeff (21640) |
| Jeff, I've had good
luck spraying wd-40 on my mill to prevent rust. when it dries, it
looks bad but no rust and another spraying wipe-down brings it back.
George (21648) |
| I haven't shipped
anything with a set of ways before but my Chinese mill arrived with
all the ways covered in a kind of brown paper soaked in grease or
oil and then totally covered in that awful thick grease. I just had
to find the end of the paper and peel it up to see a nice rust free
way. The awful grease wasn't on the metal ways at all. Unfortunately
it was all over everything else. Tom (21664) |
| SB 9" proper
moving? |
| I went ahead and
bought the lathe and mill for $1600 and would like to know how to
properly move a SB 9", 3.5 foot bed. There will be 2 AVERAGE guys
moving it out of a small bed room shop. One more thing is that the
lathe is mounted on a wooden cabinet and I wanted to know hoe to
level it, should I shim the base cabinet or just the lathe, because
this is going in my garage and the floor is NOT level. also the
lathe its self has leveling screws on the feet. zkling3
(22331) |
| You can easily
remove the headstock and the tailstock. I have then carried the bed
and saddle myself. With two people its a breeze. You want to get any
twist out of the bed. Level per se is not that important. There are
several methods to do this by turning a bar or measuring against a
bar with on indicator. I did not find them satisfactory and bought a
precision level. These run about $70. Start by leveling the table.
Check the ways to be sure they are not damaged. they should be
smooth and even on the top. Put the level on the ways near the
headstock. Do not bolt the bed on the tailstock end. Adjust the
headstock end or the table for a good level. Be sure the level
condition occurs with the headstock bolted down tightly. If the
bubble is off note how far it off. Move to the tailstock end of the
lathe. Again be sure the top of the bed is in good condition. Place
the level on the tailstock end. adjust the end with screws or shims.
Tighten the tailstock end of the bed after each adjustment. If the
headstock was not quite level match the tailstock to it. With a
wooden bench check this every few weeks until the wood acclimates
itself to your shop. Jim B. (22332) |
| Take the tailstock
and compound off, move the saddle down towards the tailstock end,
and two regular guys should be able to move it. That's how we did
mine. You move the countershaft separately. (22333) |
| Moving the OLD
SB 16" |
| I
won the auction for the SB 16" that James had offered here earlier.
I have some questions at first about moving
this lathe. According to the 1918 Catalog the 16" lathe runs around
1800 lbs. My idea is to rent a moving van with a lift gate to move
the lathe. Question. Anyone happen to know the lift capacity of a
lift gate? Anyone use furniture dollies or similar to move a lathe?
To place the lathe on the dollies I was thinking of using either a
jack or an engine hoist to lift it onto the dollies. Looking for as
many suggestions as possible from people with experience moving
these items. Rick (23242) |
| Lift gate capacity:
Call the local dealer that makes the truck. The folks who rent it
may not (as I have observed in the past) have any idea. I rented a
24" U- hall Ford and the gate easily handled a 1500 pound DoAll.
Please note that when you raise the gate off the ground the gate
will FIRST move to the REAR and then up. Be sure your load is
completely clear of the gate before moving it off the ground.
Furniture dollies: Check the weight capacity, remember the large the
wheel the faster the dolly will go. I suggest (if possible)
attaching two 4x4 or 4x6 under the lathe and then roll it around
with 1" diameter steel pipes. This is how I have been doing it for
quite a number of years. If you do lift the lathe from overhead
consider lifting it a two points so as not to "flex" the bed. I live
in Northern VA and if you are near by could offer added help. A
Johnson Bar (Long HEAVY wood handle with a metal tong and 2 steel
wheels attached, is VERY helpful. Go slow, use mechanical advantage
NOT muscle power. No more than 3 people should be present. More than
that and you end up with lots of "great" ideas....too many cooks
etc. Eric
(23244) |
| Rick, A good
thought might be to bring a small assortment of wrenches and
sockets, a good flat screwdriver, a dozen of those latex 'surgeons'
gloves, some old newspaper, and a few milk crates. In just a few
minutes you can remove the motor assy from the headstock, the
headstock from the bed......slide the tailstock off (wipe the ways
down and lightly oil first)...then remove the rear leadscrew
bearing, loosen the back side carriage bolts and run the carriage
right off of the bed. Replace the leadscrew bearing. Put the items
in the crates and wad with some old newspaper to protect. In all
reality the motor and carriage are quite big but now you've reduced
the machines' weight by almost a third and its no longer so top
heavy. The bed will still need to be securely lashed down in
whatever vehicle you bring....don't run any straps or chains over the
ways unless you protect with wood blocking. I've moved two big
machines like this and it worked well. You will need a
helper....biggest one you can find. Tj (23245) |
Tom, My thoughts
exactly. Jeff suggested taking a disposable camera as well, and some
baggies. The bed comes off pretty easy as well, but as you say, with
what you have listed he is going to get the weight off the top and
down pretty quickly. Brian
(23254) |
| I was planning on
using my digital camera so I can record how it came apart and the
moving event as well. I have a large memory card installed so I can
document it toughly. Rick (23257) |
| Rick, I moved a
Bridgeport mill using a hydraulic lift gate truck with no problem (I
think it was 2000-2500 lbs). The furniture dollies may? be too light
for this application, but you can roll a machine on pipes or bolt
casters to the feet/angle iron/etc and move it. George (23262) |
| I would suggest
skipping the lift gate and the van idea. I doubt it is doable.
Problem one will be that the lathe is longer then the lift gate is
wide. So best you will be able to do is lift one side, not much
help. Problem two is most liftgates that I have run across on
rentals and on my own truck for that matter, do not travel straight
up/down. They are slanted down and away from the truck, making it
very difficult to lift strangely balanced/top heavy items. Not to
say there are not liftgates that are suitable for this out there.
The ones with the rails on the sides of the truck doors, are nice
and move straight. The tuck-under ones are not so.. I would rent a
trailer instead. Lift the machine with an engine hoist and drive the
trailer under the raised machine. Do not try and move the engine
crane with the lathe raised. This past summer I loaded a 14-1/2"
south bend into the bed of my F350. I took one look at my options
for securing it and tying it down and decided to completely dismantle
it on site and take it in parts instead. Way to top heavy and high.
Sliding something like that into a van is going to be really tough..
A truck where you can load it on a dock and use a pallet jack to
pull it in, is the best option, next would be the trailer.
Jeff (23265) |
| Not long ago I
moved my 9" from storage to the house. My friend also had one to
move. I realize that ours are smaller but we used a low utility
trailer and an engine cherry picker. Since these are very top heavy
I laid mine down on it's backside with no problems. I kept it near
the end of the trailer and when we arrived at our destination we
just let the legs of the stand hang off the end and stood it back up
quite easily by hand (two people).
(23267) |
| Good point about
the lift gate length/width. Had not thought of that very important
consideration. Eric (23270) |
| I have a heavy 10
parts lathe currently sitting on a couple of HF dollies. Every time
I look at it, I wonder about the wisdom of this. No way for a 16"
lathe. Go with the pipes. Ed
(23272) |
| Looking at another website showing
the moving of another lathe approximately the same age and the input
of the group I rethought my plan. I have a 1991 Jeep Comanche pickup
with the standard rear bumper hitch 2" ball. If I rent/borrow a
trailer, my towing capacity is 5000lbs. Max tongue weight about
1800lbs. What if I were to disassemble the lathe and place the
headstock, carriage and motor assembly into the bed of the truck and
the attach the lathe legs and bed to 4x4 posts fitted with heavy
wheels and roll it into the trailer and fasten it there?
Rick (23277) |
| I tried bolting
castors onto my 5ft 13"....it isn't no way to go, the sheer
weight restricts the castor free movement, and the thing takes
unexpected sheer-offs. The top-heaviness was a bit alarming. I
jacked the thing up again and unbolted the castors. We shifted it
into my shed with 2" pipe rollers under the motor end, and a
hydraulic trolley jack under the leg end, just barely lifted. We
moved it with crowbars, steering round the various corners using the
trolley jack. Len
(23279) |
| I did the same
thing with a similar 13". The castors on the tailstock end were
fine, but on the heavy headstock end they made it about 10 ft before
they were both bent out at 45 degree angles and completely useless
with wheels that no longer turned! the sheer weight restricts the
castor free movement, and the thing takes unexpected sheer-offs. The
top-heaviness was a bit alarming. I jacked the thing up again and
unbolted the castors. We shifted it into my shed with 2" pipe
rollers under the motor end, and a hydraulic trolley jack under the
leg end, just barely lifted. We moved it with crowbars, steering
round the various corners using the trolley jack.
(23280) |
| Rick, the other
guys can help with the weight/dimensions. I have a Heavy 10 tube
frame bench/underdrive. I took off the headstock, tailstock, taper
attachment, carriage, and the bed, and myself and the seller were
able to groan the bench and drive into my pickup bed (with the
tailgate off). We did roll it to the truck on furniture dollies. I'm
thinking if you do the same, you could roll the bench out to the
trailer and with some help could raise it up enough to get it onto
the trailer. The rest should fit into the back of the Cherokee.
Maybe take some 2 x 10's or 12's if the trailer does not have a wood
floor, but the furniture dollies should support the bench and
underdrive unit. You 16" owners can correct me. Is the 16" bench
much heavier than the 10? Brian (23281) |
| I'm inclined to
agree with Jeff that the lift gate approach may not be the best way
due to probable size problems and the geometry of the gate movement.
Also I'm none too keen on a lot of field stripping either because
you loose the chance to see exactly how it is now/was when last
used. If you are going to repair or refurbish its a great help to
carefully assess exactly how things are now before deciding what to
do and the order of play. As its a plinth under the head-stock /
legs under the tail-stock configuration inexperienced moving in one
lump runs a serious risk of snapping the tail-stock legs off.
Frankly its not the best of ideas to move it on its legs anyway
unless the whole thing is bolted to a substantial skid. I'd unbolt
the bed and lift it off with an engine hoist, leave the saddle and
tail-stock on so you can balance it by moving the saddle along 'till
it hangs level. Then drop it onto a "4-bar gate" configuration
pallet of adequately sized rough timber (4x4?) with the centre bars
spaced to receive bolts or big square head wood screws through the
bed fixing holes. Put the outer bars 2 to 3 ft apart so the valuable
bits can't tip over. If you are feeling flash fix some hefty castors
on underneath so you can roll it along. Castors are essential if you
can't get the trailer or lorry up to the shop door, pipe rolling
round the side of the house into a back-yard workshop is hard on
patience and bystanders ears. Last time I was involved in a job like
this we built the frame actually on the lathe drip tray so we never
had to lift the complete bed any great distance from safety. We just
stepped it up on timber "bricks", lifted slightly and slid the long
timber bars in moving one brick at a time. Having built the "gate
pallet" we fixed proper lifting eyes and hoicked the whole thing up
onto a lorry with a HiAb but using the engine hoist to drop it on a
trailer would have been just as effective. Building the gate on the
lathe also allowed us to drop it onto two hefty timber supports
whilst we manhandled the legs, drip tray and plinth out of the way.
Knocking up a pallet on castors for the head stock plinth is not a
bad idea either Its less work than it sounds 'cos its all straight
forward stuff (except for the actual unbolting) which can be pre
planned and mostly pre measured. Don't forget the baby chain-saw and
battery drill/driver! I can assure you from unhappy experience that
a 16" lathe makes one heck of a bang if it goes over and welding the
apron back together afterwards is seriously unfunny. snip
(23282) |
| Guys you have not
lived till you have moved one of these 16" or even the 14-1/2" south
bends for that matter. Especially if it is the underdrive style with
the cast pedestal base. The base/bed alone weighs more then a heavy
10. You 9 and 10" guys have no idea. We are talking about a
tailstock that is well over 100 pounds. The apron alone is about 100
pounds. The quick change box from a 14-1/2 is about 100 pounds. The
stuff is heavy!! (23283) |
| I dunno, Jeff, I
was field stripping my Heavy 10 and unthreaded the 8" three jaw and
reached up under it to keep it from landing on the ways when it
unscrewed... Yup. You got it! That SO%$ *(^^*%*( is heavy!
To paraphrase the old joke, it does not take long to get an 8" three
jaw chuck up off your thumb after it sandwiches it between the chuck
and the bed!
(23284) |
| I guess that is why
my old boss had a piece of broom stick to shove through the spindle
to the tailstock. Saved a bunch of fingers. JWE(23298) |
| I put a 2x4
or other wood on the ways that is the same height as the chuck. the
heavier the chuck, the closer I try to shim it. Personally, I would
rather have a D1 cam-lock as you tighten it separately from moving
it. Dave
(23299) |
| A piece of
carpet in the bed of the truck will help. Lay the bed on the carpet
upside down then place all the other parts around it. I use plastic
buckets for the smaller items, that way I can put the bolts with the
subassembly they came from. Sometimes the bolts in old machinery are
not interchangeable even though they are the "same" thread. Big coffee
cans can be used to segregate the bolts that go with the larger
subassemblies. You may find some square headed bolts in bad
places, like holding down the headstock, so if you have 8 point
sockets take them along. Otherwise you may end up needing to use two
adjustable wrenches as a "West Virginia socket set" to get those
bolts out. Rob
(23304) |
| Rick, I would pass
on an enclosed moving van. Rent the lowest open trailer you can
find, preferably without sides. Narrow is good too. If one location
only has dock-height loading, you may have to used a big truck but
I'd still hold out for an open one. Removing parts is a great idea
but, short of sledge-hammering the bed into tiny bits, you will
never reduce that large of a machine to the point where it can be
easily handled. You are probably better off spending the time to
prepare the lathe and find/procure/prepare moving equipment. If your
remove anything, remove protruding handles, guards, etc. They are
basically irreplaceable, quick to remove, and easy to damage. A
broken or bent handle will remind you of your carelessness every time
you use the machine. Bring long 4x4s, a drill, carriage bolts, nuts,
washers, and a saw and put skids under the lathe before anything
else. This is especially important for a lathe with cast iron
pedestals. We had an old Lodge and Shipley fall over once when the
pedestal cracked. Five pounds of nickel rod solved the problem. We
skipped skidding since it was a very long lathe and we though we
were "experts." Live and learn. The skids need to positively tie the
pedestal and legs together to be effective. If you can get a low,
open trailer, cribbing may be the best way to get your machine off
the ground. This requires a couple of bottle jacks, some long
timbers to pass under the lathe, and a bunch of short timbers. 3 ft
4X4s work the best- light enough to carry, long enough for
stability, and a good thickness. I have seen people use cinder
blocks but they can collapse, they are too short, and there is no
place to put the jacks. If the ground is soft and/or uneven or if
you are using a dock-level truck, longer, bigger cribs would help. A
thorough person would use carriage bolts to pin the layers together.
You build the crip up to just under the height of the machine using
two timbers for each layer, alternating directions. add a center
timber one or two layers below where you need to start lifting. This
timber needs to be at right angles to the beam under the machine and
off to one side of the crib. Under the machine, run two longer
timbers strong enough to hold the machine. A 4x4 is too weak but you
could bold a second one under the main beam- you can kee this one
shorter so it isn't over the jacks. Tie the two lifting beams
together so they can't rotate off your bottle jacks. Use the jacks
to lift the cross beams and add timbers to the crib. Because the
jack is off to one side, you can slip a center crib timber next to
it. As you move up, the jack position "zig-zags" since the next
center crib timber can't pass through the jack. Access and limited
handling are the key hence an open, low trailer. Also, load the
machine head forward or else the trailer will be too tail heavy and
fishtail down the road. Bill (23306) |
| I own and have
moved, that is my wife and I have moved, three old 16" swing, eight
foot bed lathes. They can be moved in a pickup, but a two axle
trailer is safer. This is how we did it: Using the holes in the
lathe feet, lag screw 10' 4 by 4s to the legs (running along the
length of the bed). Use an axel jack to pick up each end in turn so
that you can place pipes under the 4 by 4s, then roll/slide it any
where you need it (use several pipes and move them as needed to keep
at least 3 under the 4 by 4s at all times). Use an engine hoist to
set the tailstock end us on the trailer (carefully support the
headstock end with an axial jack so that the end can be rolled onto
the trailer. Move the engine hoist to the headstock end, place pipes
on the trailer under the 4 by 4s at the tailstock end, and after
moving the engine hoist to the headstock end, lift the lathe until
it is lined up with the trailer bed. Now using the pipes and engine
hoist, roll the lathe to the center of the trailer. Use a crow bar
or the axial jack to remove the pipes, and secure the load for
travel. If the lathe has a motor mounted and pulleys mounted above
or behind the headstock, they should be removed to make the lathe
more stable. The tailstock and carriage can be moved as needed to
make one end or the other lighter as needed. Big lathes are heavy
and moving them this way is inherently hazardous, but it can be
done. If you have safer options, you should use them. (23332) |
| Rick, I just moved
a 16" SB. It was very easy. After making several phone calls to
local firms that had boom trucks I found a guy who manufactures and
sets large concrete waste water management tanks. He charged me $200
including tip to move the machine from purchase location to my home
and set it in front of my garage. This price also included moving a
Bridgeport Mill at the same time. The operator was very skilled and
patient. He let me position the slings and approve the lift before
raising the equipment too high off the ground. He also made complete
stops before making any turns once out on the road. We only had a
few miles to travel. I have pictures of the move. I will scan them
in and try to post them on this site. John (23362) |
| Nice, what company
did you use to move it? Rick (23365) |
| Yep, when you hire
the pros to do it, it can't get much easier. (23367) |
| What I took away
from this is that there are lots of small businesses out there that
aren't in the "machinery moving" business but have the equipment to
make it easy. I was wondering about the lathe lift though. It wasn't
clear what kept the lifting straps from shifting and it looked like
things could go bad in a hurry if they did. Ed (23372) |
| Nothing like the
right tool for the job! But lets face it, a rig like that costs as
much an hour as many pay for their entire machines, myself included!
Roy (23376) |
| Rick, Again these
people are not riggers they set concrete tanks and are a local
company, Delaware/Maryland. A rigger could charge thousands for this
same task. We replaced the 16" SB at work with a Haas CNC lathe. The
riggers charged $1500 to move the new machine from the loading dock
to the machine shop. This did not include leveling or hook up. About
a 20 minute task. (23380) |
| I think I just may
hold the record for longest move of an old SB 16. I acquired mine
from Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard a while back. I decided the easiest
way to get it home (which was Hawaii at the time) was to disassemble
the machine as much as possible. We took everything apart we could
except for the motor out of the foundation. All fit neatly into the
back of an old van although the van wasn't too thrilled about the
deal. The machine unfortunately lay in my garage untouched in pieces
for quite some time. When I left Hawaii, the movers were less
thrilled about moving this old machine than the van used previously.
However, I used my chiseled physique (all 130 lbs of me) to show the
movers exactly how to haul the pieces to the truck and crate them. I
think my couch ended up on top of the apron. Long story...well...not
really short, my lathe is now happily reassembled in it's new home
in Charleston, SC. I have done smarter things in my life, but I did
manage to reassemble the entire thing without assistance (except for
my wife's valuable input-"that looks heavy"). It takes a little
extra work, but even a 16 can be moved relatively easily if
disassembled. Jim (23475) |
| Boy did you hit
that on the head. I have a 13" add about 500 pounds for the 16".
Most people have no idea how much weight you can move rolling it on
rollers like pipes. Forget the lift gate and get a trailer low as
you can get it. Most U Hauls 5 by 8 can take such a load with no
problem. The biggest problem is finding a host that can lift a lathe
because of the balance. But if you look around you will find one
where the pedestal won't get in the way of the legs of the hoist.
Years ago I worked for Allied Van Lines for a while. We moved heavy
machines across grass even snow by laying down plywood and rolling
it across sheet by sheet. Don't know how much weight we were moving
but it was a lot. One other thing the closer your lathe is to the
ground less chance of it being dropped. Don't take it apart unless
you have no other way a 13" and up is NOT the same as something
smaller. (23495) |
| I grew up moving things with pipes and pinch bars. I
recently moved a Bridgeport mill about my shop by myself using only
pipes. Frankly, I'm inclined to believe that the only limit is the
weight the pipe will take without crushing. The biggest trick is
getting an edge up high enough to slide the pipe under it. Pinch
bars and crow bars usually work, put a block behind and under them
to act as a fulcrum. Same old story, use your head instead of your
back. Greg (23503) |
| I have both a 14
1/2" and a 16" SB and hauled both using a 5 X 8 U-haul trailer (one
from AL to MD, the other from PA to MD), unloaded them with a 3 ton
shop crane from Harbor Freight, and moved them into my basement over
grass/dirt using thick walled cast iron (gas) pipe/plywood all by
myself. So it can be done if approached thoughtfully. I highly
recommend having an extra set of hands if they can be had. Keyth (23575) |
| Moving day |
| I moved my 10K into the house where its warmer. Also got my
grand daughter a sled at the same time. I just shoveled some snow
down the steps into the house and pushed it down. Now it can all
melt. Bob (24286) |
| Bob, I thought you
were kidding about this when you first mentioned it. Glad it worked
out ok for you. Just don't try this with your 16-incher. BTW, I read
the posts online so I'm not able to view your pic. Could you email
one my way? Arne (24296) |
| My father would put
boards over his stairs and use his lawn tractor to slide the
machines down the steps. We had to carry them all out and it sucked.
Paul (24316) |
| Moving my 9"
|
| I have a
problem and I would like for a consensus of opinion from the group.
Next Sunday I will be traveling to Victoria to pick up my 9" SB
Toolroom lathe and its associated hardware. The only vehicle I can
get for this move requires that I lay the lathe on its side. It is a
cabinet model with under drive motor. Is placing it on its side for
a three hour journey OK? What support should I be providing and
where? Once I get it into my shop what should I be doing before I
put it back into operation. Dennis (24574) |
| I think
your post got lost in the shuffle, so I will give my 2 cents. I
don't think laying the lathe on its side will hurt anything. With a
cabinet model, I would think the chip pan would support the lathe
and keep it off the floor, even with a taper attachment. I think I
would take the tailstock and the collet holder off the bed and maybe
tighten the carriage lock bolt a bit. You might want to drain the
oil from the carriage reservoir, there is a drain plug on the
bottom. The headstock reservoirs will be a little hard to drain with
out a suction gun or a syringe, but with the lathe on its side with
the oil cups up, maybe it wont leak that much. It would be a good
idea to lay something under the lathe to catch any oil that does
drip. Once you get it home, a good cleaning and a look over for
damage or repairs it needs, would be good. Then fill the oil
reservoirs and oil the rest of the lathe and make some chips. See
how it goes from there.
Chris. (24698) |
| Chris, I was also thinking of bringing some blocking with me to hold
the whole unit off the floor of the van. Padded blocks under the
various castings and cabinet parts. I want to minimize the chance of
breaking anything. Dennis (24702) |
| Dennis, I keep a
stack of 2 x 10 chunks cut to around 2ft long. They are car ramps,
cribbing, lathe way protectors, and anti-weasel devices all rolled
into one. I also have kept all of my daughter's old comforters.
Nothing says manly like a "My Little Pony" bedspread protecting your
new machine. When I moved my machine, the back cabinet pedestal was
a bit loose and provided a momentary scare during the unload. You
may want to check this or attach skids. I'd remove or tape up the
spindle covers and tighten the carriage lock as well. Bill (24704) |
| Chris et al, I got
my lathe home today and it survived the trip intact. I even got a
couple of old comforters and blankets to place the lathe into. We
nestled it in the bed of the vehicle and supported all the non
critical places to protect the critical places. I will be borrowing
a precision level early next week to do the initial setup. I will
send some pictures to the list once I have it all back together and
looking like an operable lathe. Thanks to everyone who sent me ideas
on moving and blocking. I too appreciate the knowledge on this list
and wished there were another like it for my Arboga EM825 Milling
Machine. I did get a copy of the operating guide and a copy of the
book "Running a Lathe" which was published by South bend. The seller
had a collection of stuff that he gave me to go with the machine. An
oiling chart and three one quart cans of oil for the various oiling
ports. A speed chart for various types of steel A bunch of small
tools fabricated for specific job functions on the 9" lathe and an
open offer of help whenever I need it. Dennis (24927) |
