| What paint to use? (Feb
7, 2001) |
Part temperatures (May 13, 2003) |
| Paint
colors on early models (Jun
17, 2001) |
Powder Coating (Aug 4, 2003) |
| South Bend Paint Colors
(Jun 20, 2001) |
Southbend colors (Sep 15, 2003) |
| Paint
(Aug 1, 2001) |
Urethane Enamel (Oct 3, 2003) |
| Lathe color (May
15, 2002) |
Painting the change gear plate?
(Dec 9, 2003) |
| Paint questions & height problems
(May 18, 2002) |
Paint help needed (Apr
5, 2004) |
| Painting and Bondo questions
(Jun 14, 2002) |
Repainting 1945 SB 9" Model A
(Apr 22, 2004) |
| Painting lathe (nickel plating)
(Oct 1, 2002) |
Paint questions (May 8,
2004) |
| To paint or not to paint
(Nov 13, 2002) |
Suggestions for paint?
(Jun 17, 2004) |
|
Lathe Paint (Feb 9, 2003) |
Paint (Aug 17, 2004) |
| Best paint for lathe
(Apr 24, 2003) |
Paint specification (Nov
16, 2004) |
| SouthBend Paint code/formula
(May 6, 2003) |
Best Paint EVER (Dec 5,
2004) |
| Powder coating and colors
(May 12, 2003) |
Question on color (Jan
29, 2005) |
| Paint options (May 12,
2003) |
Primer on SB? (Mar 3,
2005) |
| |
| What paint to use? |
| I need some
recommendations on type/brand of paint to use on my 9" SB. I am
going to take off the old stuff and am looking for good choice to
repaint. Also is there a special primer I need? Do I need any
primer? David (196) |
| I used a Tremclad Rust paint on bare
metal. It works real good. You can see my lathe in some earlier
postings. I took mine down to bare metal chemically first. Very
happy and seams very durable. Tibbits also makes and industrial
machine paint that works very well. Jim (197) |
|
Paint colors on early models |
|
I have started to strip the paint off my old 10" SB sn
1180. Under a coat of grey, a coat of red, and a coat of green is a
layer of filler mixed in with black paint. I think that the factory
paint was the black or the green. If anyone knows what color South
Bend used for these early lathes and what the DuPont paint number
crossovers are I would be very happy to here from them. Also, does
anyone know what was used in with the black coat of paint as filler?
Carl (886) |
| I was going to ask the
same question. I have a 9" Jr. Catalog 22-YC, s/n 37819 which had
several layers of paint applied to it, the top layer being a hideous
lime green latex that had been applied by brush. After stripping a
few components, I found layers of green, beige, red, grey, and
black. I corresponded with Tony Griffiths of
www.lathes.co.uk fame, and
he indicated the early lathes were indeed black, and by around 1930
had switched to grey. I'd like to restore it as closely as possible
to its original condition, but I'm not sure black would be my first
choice. Mike (902) |
| I
once owned a '32 or '33 9" Junior that had original, gray paint. Kim
(906) |
| South Bend Paint Colors |
| All the South Bend's
I've seen (made from the late thirties on up) were painted a
gray-green color. This color would vary in the amount of green from
year to year with the newer models being more gray. The last couple
decades were just gray. Many moons ago, I had a Duron paint dealer
match the color I had on the back of an NOS SBL faceplate and had
him mix me a batch in their industrial "Duraclad" paint. This was a
very good match for the early SBL's (late 30's to early 60's). This
paint is offered in a catalyst formula but only in gallon
quantities. "Duraclad" is also available in a non-catalyst form in
quart quantities. Sherwin Williams also makes a excellent industrial
catalyst baser paint. It is called "Polane" (I think). Actually, you
would want Polane HS (High Solids) BUT this paint must be used with
respirators and good ventilation. Webb
(914) |
| Paint |
| Does anyone have any
information on the original color of paint used on a 1940 model 10L.
If so where might I find some. I sent an e-mail request to a lady at
South Bend but she never answered me, funny how customer service has
different meanings depending on which company you are dealing with.
Larry (1246) |
| I don t know what the
original color was but if it resembles the old gray Ford tractors TSC (Tractor Supply Company) has some of the best spraying paint
I've ever used. It only comes in tractor colors plus black and white
(to my knowledge) but it s an old fashioned enamel that thins with
mineral spirits and lasts a long time. It s a lot easier to spray
without runs than most paints, also comes in spray cans (which are
great for touch up but don t cover as well as the regular enamel
sprayed with a gun). It s only about $18 a gallon; MUCH cheaper than
regular car type paint. We re in the Laundromat business and I've
painted washer fronts and dryers with the International Harvester
white which almost perfectly matches Maytag almond. Have also used
the black on trailers, red on gumball machines, etc. I have even
painted a truck with the IH white; looked pretty good. Bought a can
of the Ford gray last week for my Bridgeport mill I m restoring.
Their website is http://www.tractorsupplyco.com and I think they
have a store address listing on it. (1248) |
| Here is a trick Stan and Mike use at Strojny's Implement Co in
Marshfield WI when they use the old gray tractor color to spray 9Ns
and 8Ns. Stan says they fill the "std" spay cup up and add about
3/4" of lacquer thinner. Think you want to them pour out and mix
thoroughly, or guess this prior to pouring into the cup. Yes I know
it's a mineral spirit based paint, Stan claims it flows better and
they get better results than just thinning with spirits. I have
painted several tractors using the lacquer thinner and it comes out
very nice. I have not tried it without the lacquer, so have no
comparison. I have not painted my SouthBend nor gone over it and
cleaned it yet, will some day do this, but the fact of the matter is
my memory is etched with this lathe from High School and it always
had many coats of machine gray on it. I cannot envision it look like
a factory model, so I may very well finish it in "High School" style
even when I clean it. That is scrape it down good, but not too good,
because those HS students only did but so much scraping. Then paint
it or better yet hire a couple HS students to drop by and do it.
this will get the drips and runs and brush marks authentic looking.
You younger guys may not appreciate this but its a reflection on the
many great times I had in shop using the old SouthBends. big tom
(1252) |
| This kind of reminds me of the
paint jobs on the machinery at work, for years everything in the
plant was kind of an olive puke green, now they have switched to
baby blue, it really looks good considering they didn't clean the
grease and oil off the presses first, now it's baby blue, green camo
pattern. Long live Maytag! Matt (1253) |
| Lathe color |
| I recently bought a
1927(?) 16"X72" SB lathe. It has about ten coats of badly damaged
paint (including the operating surfaces). Can anyone tell me the
original factory color? At present it's a light pea green and rust.
The paint is badly beat up and I believe I can see at least one coat
of black and a darker green. The rusty parts are responding to
kerosene and Scotchbrite. I took it mostly apart to move. Might
just as well make it a little closer to original. Before I take the
paint stripper to it, any landmines? Jerry
(4231) |
| The paint is Machine Tool
Gray. I got this from Ralph ?? at South Bend. When I called
requesting some information about my newly acquired 9A I was told to
speak to Ralph, no last name. The comment was, "everyone knows
Ralph. He has been here over 40 years". He informed me the paint can
be obtained from Sherman Williams, Kelly Moore, etc. I do not think
you want to take paint stripper to it. If any imperfections were
filled with anything (i.e. bondo) you will empty those depressions
and fissures and have to fill them again. Fred (4232) |
| I use aircraft
stripper for the large parts, and strip the pieces that will fit in
a large pan or pot with hot TSP solution. I have been unhappy with
the chip and stain resistance of Rustoleum paints, seems the formula
changed several years ago. My neighbor just did his late 20's era
SB15 with a modified urethane enamel from Davis, obtained from the
local Duron dealer. Nice hard paint, chip resistant and no staining
so far. The interior of my SB13 and his SB15 beds were painted with
Krylon Rust Tough yellow (by brush from a can), this paint sets up
hard and shiny and hasn't chipped or stained so far. You might be
interested in the strip and paint sections of the lathe restoration
found at: http://www.dimebank.com/FrankenLathe.html POR15 is also a
very tough paint, I may use it on the next repaint. The black filler
used on these lathes is TOUGH! Sandblasting doesn't really touch it,
so I smooth any rough spots with a wire cup wheel in a right angle
grinder, fill any really rough areas with Bondo or spot putty, then
prime. Sand between primer coats, then spot putty to the extent
patience and your sense of aesthetics requires. The color coat is
the easiest, provided you've created a good surface to flow it on.
When you mask, get a box of 100 single edged razor blades. You'll
dull them quickly as you trim the tape to give nice results, on a
SB13x7 you probably go through 50 or 60 blades. Use good masking
tape, not no-name stuff from the local dollar store. 90 percent of
the finish quality occurs before the first coat of color is applied.
(4233) |
| FYI- Most paint manufacturers
have a "machine tool gray", but this is just a generic term, like
"navy blue", or "pea green", and not a standard color. Paint of this
color name varies quite a bit from brand to brand. On the other
hand, they are all a medium-tone gray, so if you're just wondering
whether to use gray or green or blue, then any company's "machine
tool gray" will be close enough. I have machine tool gray from 3
different manufacturer's, and none of them are very close to the
gray on my SBL lathe (which has clean original paint). Most
off-the-shelf machine tool grays are much more bluish, whereas the
SBL color has a more muddy tone. I talked to Joe at Plaza Machinery
recently, and he said they have paint which they matched exactly to
SBL gray (or got the formula from SBL, I forget) for repainting. I
don't know if they sell it, but he might give you the formula.
(4238) |
| If you are looking for
machine gray and want an exact match it is real simple. I think even
sears can do it but I know if you go to any reputable auto paint
supply store they nearly all have a computer match machine. You
simply take something off the old girl that is nice and new looking
like a hidden undamaged or worn bolt head with good paint , They
scan this part somehow in their computer machine and you tell them
what type of paint that you want to use and they make you a quart or
what you need. The cost isn't all that bad if you want the original
color . It is amazing what they can do with computers even in paint
stores. Jim (4241) |
| The paint Plaza Machinery sells
is darker than what I have found at the True Value store. It is also
a bit expensive, $8 a can if I remember right. I would prime and
paint the machine with paint from the hardware store, then do the
final coat with the stuff from Plaza if you go this route. Think
about 2-3 cans. Maybe more. They do make a spray can that you can
put regular paint into. If you went with a mixed paint from a
hardware store. It gets pressurized, probably from a common hand
pump. Then use as a regular spray can. Look at Eastwood Automotive
Supplies. Tom (4263) |
| Paint questions
& height problems |
| I'm getting ready
to paint my Heavy 10" castings and need some advise. What's the best
way to clean up the gears shafting ? Any reason I couldn't use a
brass wire wheel on the grinder or just use a brush clean by hand ?
Will using the buffer to polish the shafts cause any problems ?
Everything was cleaned and primed with a self-etching primer and now
I'd like to put some color back on it. If I can do this without
buying a compressor paint set I sure would like to. Does anyone make
a quality paint available in spray cans ? If buying mixing the paint
is my only option I suppose I'd get one of HF's HVLP rigs. Anyone
gone that route ? If I can though I'd like to just open the windows
and paint it in place along with the cabinet. It was *so* difficult
getting everything where it is now that I just cringe at the thought
of moving it again. That's why I was thinking a HVLP setup would be
best to use in place if spray cans aren't an option. The original SB
Gray is just expensive when purchased thru them right ? Or is it a
legally protected color like Michigan's State Police Blue ? It would
be nice to have an original color but I just really want something
that looks good. OK, those were my paint questions. Now it gets a
little more complicated. When I got the lathe cleaned up for the
first time the first thing I discovered was that the ways had been
ground. The serial number at the end of the bed is gone without a
trace. It' an early lathe with a single lever QC gear box. The
headstock had a number of brass shims under each side and the
tailstock was gone. I've picked up another tailstock but I need to
figure out how to get it to the same height as the headstock. Just
remove the shims ? It can't be that simple can it ? Dave(4243) |
| If you want
the machine gray which I hate myself just run down to HD or whoever
is handy and get some Krylon in light which is very close to SB or
dark which was used on some of the early machines. JWE (4244) |
| I have been using
the Krylon heavy duty spray paints and love them. The dark gray is
MSCDirect Item # 02512291 and they have a light gray too (don't have
the # handy). I tried their accupro brand paint and tried to save a
few bucks and that stuff is real c%$p! It took weeks to get hard
(probably could have baked it I know). The Krylon has been a much
better product all around. www.mscdirect.com Bill (4245) |
| Painting and
Bondo questions |
| My
latest two questions concern finishing. I've completed two parts,
namely the Upper Guard and the Thread Dial Frame, but I'm wondering
if I finished them properly. I first removed all the grime and
paint, mostly with paint stripper and "oil eater" solvent. I then
cleaned them up with a wire brush wheel on the drill press. Next I
primed them with a Plasti-Kote Industrial primer, then painted with
a Plasti-Kote Machinery Gray spray paint. The paint looks nice, but
the rough casting is still very, well, rough. Should I have put a
coat of Bondo on everything first, then sanded, then painted? The
original (several layers of) paint was so thick that I think it
filled in most of the pits and grinder marks, but it's possible
there was filler involved that may have been removed with the
stripper. Also, I've read other posts talking about these
fancy-sounding "industrial coatings.. blah blah" where some
even take an oven to cure them. Is this necessary? Is my Plasti-Kote
3-coat paint job going to hold up or should I strip everything again
and use a "professional" coating? I'm only 3 parts into my painting,
so there's still time to change my technique. Jeff (4593) |
| I'm restoring
a Heavy 10" a 9" Model A and recently painted the 10". I looked into
the "industrial coatings" which are primarily 2-part epoxy type
paints and didn't go that route. The paint and spray gear were too
expensive. However I did cough up the bux at the PPG paint store for
a quality zinc-based self etching primer. After that I took JWE's
advise and bought some Krylon paint in spray cans at Wal-Mart. I
stripped everything twice, first I boiled it all in a TSP solution
and then went back and did everything a second time with a bath in
chemical stripped. I didn't see anything that looked like bondo but
who knows. I laid down probably 2 or 3 good coats of primer on
everything and then 3 to 4 coats of Krylon on top of that. I got
pretty good results. Attached are the before after paint pics. More
pictures are in the group photo section in the Heavy 10" folder and
the most of what I've done is up on my website. Dave (4598) |
| Dave, It looks
nothing short of fantastic! I wish you were located in Southern
California. I'd bribe you to come over and help me with my 9" model
A. It works pretty good, but I've still got two shades of grubby
gray and I'm not happy with either ;-). I like the idea of the
cabinet below the lathe. My 9" has the cast iron legs and a
full-length pedestal for the horizontal-drive motor. A lot of wasted
space! I think I might look for a bench-mount motor pedestal and
weld up a sturdy bench for drawers, etc. Thanks for sharing your
work with the group. Very inspiring. Paul R. (4599) |
| I liked your
WEB site and your pictures. I will be interested in hearing about
the durability of the finish over time. I hope it will be good as I
am using spray bomb a lot. With Krylon you get a wide range of
colors. I have been using Hammarite smooth finish colors. Not too
many colors available. You can also get any color made into a spray
bomb at the auto paint store. I have heard for about $ 75 you get 3
spray cans. I have yet to try it. When you used steal wool your ways
there might be an easier way. I use Oxalic acid on things like ways.
It's sold as wood bleach in a powered form at the local hardware
store. You mix up a paste and paint it on the ways. It dries to
yellow like color and then you can take it off with steal wool. I
usually use the 3M pads but it's the same result. Then you can
polish it. Oxalic acid doesn't etch the metal like Naval Jelly which
is hard to get a decent finish on after use. Anyway your Southbends
look great. Yasmiin (4600) |
| The machines were filed with lead
in those days. Nasty stuff so you want to get rid of it. I worry
about lead dust some and find nice ways of disposing of the lead to
be not as available as one would like. I have to drive about 25
miles to a toxic disposal site. I try to scrape what I can of in up
and put in into a container for that some day trip to the disposal
site. Yasmiin (4601) |
| Dave, Your machine
looks great! It sounds like I'm headed in the right direction,
except I'm curious about the surface finish of the parts. I've got
maybe 2 or 3 coats on an aluminum casting (the upper guard over the
rear headstock spindle) and the paint looks great, but you can still
see every detail of the casting. I wonder, were the originals
smooth? If so, the rough spots must have been filled with something
- either a filler under the primer or just lots of paint. What about
your finish? Do parts look rough or are they smooth? Jeff
(4602) |
| Jeff, I attached
several close-ups of the finish to give you an idea. The first pic
actually has some primer showing thru and could use a couple more
coats. I didn't go wild with it because when I got the lathe you'd
have sworn the previous owner was a housepainter by trade, the paint
was 1/8" thick in some places. Where the casting were very rough the
surface is still pebbly. A couple more coats of paint would probably
make a difference. If you apply several coats of a good primer that
will get you started and then you could add several coats of color
on top of that and your surface should come out pretty nice. It's
not going to look like hand rubbed lacquer but I think you'll be
happy with it. If you start with clean and bare castings you could
probably go with several coats of primer and color without putting
too much on there. Another thing you can do is spend some time
cleaning up the castings themselves with fine sandpaper or even
rubbing compound. If you can smooth out the castings themselves
you'll need less paint to fill in the surface. I just cleaned
everything up and applied the primer and paint, I wasn't going for
the Myford look or anything, but some time spend sanding down the
castings will yield impressive results ( note that the operative
word there was *time* ). Overall my finish is pretty smooth but you
can see places where it could have been better. Dave (4603) |
| Yasmiin,
I use Hammertone colors for some of my other stuff and you're right
a hammertone gray would have looked great on the machine. I was on a
roll though and didn't want to spend the time or the money, it's
close to $10 a can for the good hammertone colors and I can't get
them locally so I have to order, wait pay shipping. Durability was
my main concern also, the paint was recommended by several on the
list so I figured I'd give it a shot. I'd hate to have to repaint it
but if I did I'd go with a hammertone shade instead. I went to a PPG
store specifically to inquire about getting the paint I wanted put
into a spray can and they didn't do it. I have gotten automotive
paints done that way before, I had several of my trucks painted and
after the first one found that it was a good idea to have them take
some paint from the batch that the truck was painted with and put it
into spray cans for later on. The only part of the ways I used steel
wool on was the very end where the serial number was supposed to be.
For the bulk of the work I sprayed the ways with penetrating oil and
then rubbed them down with a plastic scuff pad and then did it again
with Eagle-one metal polishing cloth ( is that stuff cloth?). Once
I had the oxidation off I left it alone. Dave (4604) |
| Paul, too
bad you aren't closer, I'd trade. My machine originally came on a
pedestal legs and I like the look better G because I came across it
first. I'm getting ready to start painting the 9A soon. I got caught
up in another project that's almost finished and then I'm going to
start on the 9". I need to finish it anyways because I want to trade
it for a shaper or another machine. Dave (4605) |
| Dave, WOW $ 10 per
can? That's outrageous. I think I pay about $ 36 per case of 6. I
don't get any mark off for buying a case but I end up using that
much on a machine sometimes and I hate running out esp. with that
all coats need be applied within 30 minutes of one another deal. Also I
have had at least one color disappear on me part way through. I work
on more than one machine at a time. I seem to be always waiting to
find some piece. I have a Schaublin 70 in two shades of green right
now. I am wondering if these colors will be affected by things like
cutting fluids or what ever. I guess time will tell. I know the
Hammarite Black has lasted on the wheels of my van for a year now
and they still look good. Yasmiin (4606) |
| Just a quick
update. I put my part back in my "spray booth" (a cardboard box with
a fan and furnace filters behind it) and gave it a heavy coat of
paint. That seemed to do the trick. You can still see some casting
detail, but it's much less obvious. I guess the trick is to use a
bunch of paint (gotta get some more of the same batch) or to smooth
the casting from the get go. At $6 per can, I think I'm going to go
with the heavy paint. I'll be posting pictures pretty soon - I'm
currently using Yahoo's web service to view/post to this group, so I
can't attach files. I'll try via e-mail and send some along. Jeff (4616) |
| I just had to reply to the thing about the lead , I'm a
keen shooter and bullet caster , now there is a lot of bad
information about lead but the fact is the best way to get lead
poisoning is to walk down the street , air borne lead from auto
exhaust is the best way to pick up lead in the body other than to
suck on a lead fishing sinker like it was a boiled lolly, I've been
bullet casting for about 14 or so years [ I cast on a weekly basis
so I'm handling it a lot ] and get checked for lead every year and
am always well below what is considered normal levels of lead in the
blood , but what I wanted to say is if anyone wants to get rid of
lead the best and easiest way is to contact the closest shooting
range and tell them that you have lead to give away and they can
usually put you in contact with some bullet casters who will come
around and pick it up as long as there is enough to warrant the trip
. David (4617) |
| Well a thin coat of
bondo will do the job. That's what the manufactures do. Yasmiin
(4619) |
| What I call
lead is a putty that has a heavy lead concentration. As to lead
poisoning, the problem is the dust which is created when sanding
some of these parts that haven t been stripped. I am trying to build
a down draft table to collect the dust. The other is the lead in my
dip tank. There I am trying to put in a filter and pump. It still
leaves me with a disposal problem. (4620) |
| Dave, when you
first displayed the first picture a while back I wondered just how
you would do it. I would have walked after seeing it if it were me.
What a fantastic after picture. Is it even the same lathe? Got the
CD last week, works great. Ben (4624) |
| Yes , now I
understand , and you are right , airborne lead is the easiest way to
ingest lead , on the cast bullet forum some time back some one was
saying about taking Vitamin C to fix high lead levels in the blood
stream , don't know if it works or not but may be worth trying as a
safeguard in the mean time , after all it can't hurt . I understand
that some states in the US have rather extreme laws regarding the
disposal of lead , is your state one of them ? David (4626) |
| Ben, I would
have walked too if I'd seen it before buying it I figured I could
take the loss and start looking for another or just consider it the
price of tuition and start learning. The help and suggestions
offered by the group made all the difference. I'm trying to get my
website admin to post the updates on the Heavy 10" and some other
projects as well. Glad you got the CD, I hope you can find something
on there that interests you. I'm going to start on a couple projects
from the disk soon, specifically a couple of the steam engines. I'm
about 1/2 finished with Vol. II. Dave (4632) |
| Yes we do have
strict laws in Washington state but the Federal laws also apply.
Dumping lead in any state would bring the EPA down on you at some
point. I am a business even though I keep more machines than I sell.
As such, I am subject to inspection at the city level. I do know the
EPA was out here years ago and supposedly said the place was so
contaminated from a furniture stripping business that the owner
couldn't have employees in the building. I am in the process of
covering the floor and insulating the walls both to save on utility
bills and to seal in the possible contamination. Yasmiin (4633) |
| Painting lathe
(nickel plating) |
| I would like to get
opinions on painting the SB 9" would I want to paint the wheels and
handles? The lathes that I have, if the wheels and handles were ever
painted it is all wore off. Do you guys paint them? Any body got any
pics of their painted lathes I could take a look at? Clint (6515) |
| Just an opinion but
don t paint the handles. This is despairingly called the fuller
brush pint job. Instead polish them up nice as this is the way they
came from the factory. This is of course the part where the hand
touches. The shaft of the handle would be painted. You can tell the
difference as the casting won t be smooth where you paint. You can
also wax them or spray them with dry lube if you have a damp
environment where corrosion / flash rust would be an issue. Yasmiin
(6517) |
| I never paint them
- I love the smooth metal feel during use. And the way they look but
that's just personal. Frank (6518) |
| Clint, Take a look
in the Photos section in the "Heavy 10 restoration" folder I have
pics there of the Heavy 10" that I have. I'll also try to put up
some pics of the 9" that I also stripped and refinished. Dave (6523) |
| Yasmiin OK, I kind
of thought that, I think that I might chrome plate the handles, what
would be the opinion on that? I have a plating hobby shop What other
parts do you think would enhance the lathe by plating? Clint (6524) |
| I would nickel
plate, as South Bend did. Neil (6525) |
| I would be all for
plating them. As the other post says nickel was the plating choice
of the period but I would use chrome today. You can plate with
nickel if you want to be exactly correct but chrome may be easier to
get done and a good chrome plate will endure longer and not oxidize
like nickel does. Polished nickel and chrome have very similar
appearances. I have trouble finding such things as nickel plated
screws and I often substitute SS or chrome plated ones. I also use
chrome plated handles that are available from tool suppliers like
Ried when I can t find an original. I find the result to be very
satisfactory if perhaps not historically correct. Yasmiin (6532) |
| Other parts to
plate? I find that there are a few that might look nice like other
small handles, cover plates, etc. However, we don t want the machine
to look like a 57 Chevy so I wouldn't get too carried away. Yasmiin (6533) |
| Yasmiin You may be
a little confused. Chrome is a protective coating for nickel, when
you see a chrome plated part it is nickel with a chrome finish. Sort
of like clear coat on paint. When you nickel plate something you can
leave as is, like guitar trim, etc. in the case of bumpers, auto
trim, etc. the nickel gets chrome to protect them from the elements
Clint (6537) |
| Yep I stuck my
foot in that one. I had never asked for nickel but I see that is is
a step in the plating process. In any event I like chrome and I see
no reason why any but the purist would have problems with using it.
But then I have about 15 1890 1940 instrument lathes and I just can
t see repainting them all grey, how boring. Someday I will be
labeled as the restorer with extremely bad taste. Yep, I am going
too get my purple paint and go do a Monarch 10-EE in burgundy, Yasmiin (6538) |
| Just a word of
caution about nickel-plating knobs and wheels - some people develop
contact dermatitis and become very sensitive to nickel. Frank (6539) |
| Yasmiin I like your
suggestion on the nickel/chrome plated handles, I have a friend that
did that and it looks extremely good, some of the more modern as
well as the AA lathes had chrome handles. I think that is what I am
going to do. I want them sharp looking as well working well. Clint
(6545) |
| Frank Yes, this is
true some people have allergic reactions to nickel. I think that
this maybe due to the different types of nickel plate, chems. used,
etc. not sure. however, I have not had any signs of this problem as
I plate with nickel and am around it regularly, I will more than
likely chrome plate it anyway because of it getting used all the
time, and the nickel just being a plate, and the chrome will be a
strong protective covering, I might even test using the hard chrome
covering ( same as used on crankshafts, other shafts) on one to see
how that looks. It will be an interesting project by at the least.
Clint (6546) |
| Clint, I ill look
forward seeing to a picture. Yasmiin (6550) |
| I kind of like True
or Royal Blue myself. JWE (6554) |
| I almost like that
better than the Old Ford Blue I am using on one, I was planning on
doing the 2nd in hammered gray, but now you have my wheels a
turning. What shade Red is that, is it Just Red? Clint (6561) |
| JW I got some of
the old Ford blue and started painting lathe # 1 with it, I will
take a picture of some of the pieces I have already painted and show
them. I will also do a piece in hammered gray color I got from Home
Depot and show it. It is a lighter colored gray than what I have
been seeing. Clint (6562) |
| Better yet, look at
this group's homepage folder. I have pics there of the Heavy 10"
that I have. I'll also try to
put up some pics of
the 9" that I also stripped and refinished. despairingly called the
fuller brush pint job. Instead polish them up nice as this is the
way they came from the factory. This is of course the part where the
hand touches. The shaft of the handle would be painted. You can tell
the difference as the casting won't be smooth where you paint. You
can also wax them or spray them with dry lube if you have a damp
environment where corrosion / flash rust would be an issue. to paint
the wheels and handles? The lathes that I have, if the wheels and
handles were ever painted it is all wore off. Do you guys paint
them? (6584) |
| To paint or not
to paint |
| I have a 1949
SBL A 1947 and a whole shop full of old Beaver, Rockwell, Stanley
and others. I never have painted one of them. I love the old patina
that develops over the years. As I sit running my old lathe I see
where others before me have rested there arms over the guard and it
is worn the paint down to the steel. Real eye candy and stimulates
the imagination. I may be wrong but to me this all just adds to the
character of the machine. My chum, (who sandblasts and paints
everything) says I'm nuts but I just can't help the feeling I get
out of running my hands over a nice old well worn machine. (7218) |
| I would have to
agree as long as the paint on it is decent, if it is a lousy
repaint, I would have to sand blast and paint. Scott (7226) |
| Once I got all the
old oil varnishy scum off mine the paint was gone too so it's
problematic. "Wipe it down with oil and leave it be" works for me.
(7228) |
| I agree 100
percent, I have a 100 year old lathe of unknown origin that is now
painted with 30 wt turbine oil. The old iron has a character to it
that is only found in those old machines. To cover it up would be a
crime. My 1942 workshop lathe has most of the paint that SBL put on
it but there are also these worn spots which will remain so as long
as the machine is in my possession. Removing the heavy layers of
paint from old machines is a messy job, but its worth it. If you
find a machine with just factory paint on it, cover the worn spots
with 30wt and admire it. I keep a rag saturated with 30wt oil in a
coffee can to use on all my tools. Unless you are in a very bad
climate this is all you need to prevent rust. Even with paint you
still need the 30wt to protect the unpainted parts, so mop the whole
thing with 30wt and enjoy. RC (7231) |
| Does any one ever
produce any items with these well painted machines. Phil (7245) |
| Phil; Whenever I
can get into the shop! Mostly repair parts and specialty tools for
obsolete tractors, old cars (which these days seems to mean anything
made more than 10 years ago!), and outdoor power equipment. Add in
assorted tooling, a couple of steam engines, working on a hit and
miss, parts for other machines, and just general "need something to
fix... sorts of stuff. There's usually a bit of swarf and oil
around, in spite of the paint jobs :-) But then I enjoy the
restoration process and like a nice paint job. All comes down to
taste. I use my surface grinder that hasn't been torn down for a
repaint, although to my eyes it needs a nice paint job. Maybe in the
spring. Then again, by the time an old machine gets to my shop,
someone has usually done a lousy repaint on it, so it looks worse
than a nice old machine mostly in original paint! Stan
(7257) |
| I guess they are
able to produce but it's like my chum who gets me to do most of his
machining as he is too busy painting his lathe and all the rest of
his tools. Can't blame him though as I imagine the flying swarf
landing on fresh paint is bad for the PR. This chum has $$$ to burn
and a big beautiful shop. It's just loaded with old tools and
machines that all have several coats of ( pretty ) paint. Our old
farm museum in town here is just the opposite. They have standing
orders. NO PAINT. Wonder why that is? (7263) |
| The gently worn old
machine with the lovely patina, Fine, beautiful, leave it alone.
The old machine that was abused, neglected and repainted with a
brush by some teenager without any appreciation for the work. A
shitty paintjob, who could live with that? One of the pieces of
literature for South Bend admonishes the operator or owner to keep
the machine cleaned and looking nice because then others using the
machine would treat it as a better piece of equipment than they
would an old ugly, poorly maintained machine. By the way Phil, I
Use hell out of my machines !! Just have a couple weeks breathing
room here and am repainting an old ugly as hell lathe that was just
as likely to have ended up in the scrapyard if I hadn't got it. I
doubt that anybody with any self-respect would have left this
machine in it's as found condition. Alphawolf45 (7274) |
| Lathe Paint
|
| Still searching for
the paint source for the original puke green lathe paint. The author
of a lathe restoration site reported a fellow told him it was either
Pittsburgh or Fuller O'Brien Light Grey Machine Enamel. Can any
members out there confirm that? Al (9190) |
| SB paints
tended to wander a bit in shade over the years. If you want a
traditional "machine grey" that has a touch of green/blue to it, see
if any of the local paint stores can get Blue Ridge Industrial
Coatings Machine Grey. The local ACE in Front Royal, VA has some of
their stuff, I think they are a regional maker, but you might get
lucky. Have you called LaBlond and asked for the Sherwin Williams
paint number that matches? I think SB got their paint from SW and
Pittsburg over the years, maybe I'm not remembering correctly. If
you have a color card that is what you want, the local Duron dealer
should be able to mix a batch of modified urethane enamel to match.
Just use the Duron or Parks red oxide primer, NOT the white primer
from the Duron modified alkyd enamel family. The white is available
in an acrylic or an oil base, both don't built very well, nor do
they seem to give the strong chip resistant finish that these paints
give when used over the red oxide primer. Stan (9192) |
| Best paint for
lathe |
| Restoring a
Southbend 9: lathe and would like to know the best paint to use
that will hold up the best for me. Bill (10393) |
| I like the
tractor enamel TSC (Tractor Supply) sells; it s a plain old
fashioned enamel that only comes in black, white standard tractor
colors. I've always used the Ford gray on my machines but may get
wild use Ford blue on my new to me Lagun mill. Sprays real nice
without runs, etc., seems to hold up well, thins cleans up with
plain old mineral spirits, sells for about $20 a gallon with spray
cans available in matching colors to touch up the inevitable dings
that come along. Just fits my 60 year old state of mind! Lew (10395) |
| I used Old
Ford Blue on one and the new Ford Blue on another lathe On another
SB I used Hammered Dark gray from Home Depot. Clint (10408) |
| Some weeks back
there was a pic posted of a virtually new "old" model A in original
paint. I don't know how well that had reproduced in a photograph,
but I printed it and touted that round local paint suppliers until I
got a very close match. This was a make (American origin I believe)
called "SPRAYCOTE" and the color was Willow. Len (10409) |
| GREEN!!
Sorry about that but I can't stand machinery grey, everything gets
painted leaf green. I've been using standard Krylon spray cans, it
looks good but doesn't stand up very well. A catalyzed enamel or
urethane from an auto parts store would probably hold up better, but
they are expensive. The trick solution would be to have the parts
powder coated, that should stand up to about anything. Jeff (10411) |
| Southbend Paint code/formula |
| Eric, Would you be
kind enough to post the SouthBend paint code/formula for Benjamin
Moore Industrial Coatings. I'm assuming this is a grayish green
color. I'm sure a number of us would like to have this info.
Al (10819) |
| First a clarification on the color. I called Rose at SB/Leblond and
asked her if she knew any paint color formulas historically used on
these lathes. She stated the lathes were painted either gray or
green. Upon dismantling and cleaning my SB 9, I am certain the paint
color on mine is original. As far as I know, this is the color they
used at the factory on the day mine was painted. It may not match
other models. I took a part to my local Benjamin Moore paint dealer
and the put the part under a color analyzer, and the following is a
dead match to my color. The paint is Benjamin Moore Urethane Alkyd
Industrial Enamel tinted as follows: M22-3B + OY-4, BK-28, BB-2,
GY-4, WH-1X Per Quart. It really looks like battleship grey to me.
I'm not sure, but you may be able to spray this paint on, thinning
it and using a gun. Last night I pre-brushed a very light coat of
mineral spirits onto the compound casting and then flowed a coat of
paint with a brush. The mineral spirits helps the paint flow and
eliminates brush marks. It takes a little practice. This morning
when I went out to the shop the piece looked like a factory finish.
The threading dial on mine is a different color than the rest of the
lathe, It is more of a greenish grey color as Al mentioned. This
possibly may be the greener color Rose spoke of. I have this formula
as well and will post it in the morning. A quart of this paint runs
in the 7-8 dollar range and should be enough to do an entire
machine. Eric (10823) |
| About spraying
industrial finishes. If anyone here has ever use frazee aeroplate
then you will know the viscosity I'm talking about. It is about the
same as un thinned house paint. Kinda thick to be spraying but it
can be done you just need to use a spray gun wit a large orifice
size. I won't get detailed here because all paint guns have
differing tip numbers but get one from your supplier that will spray
the thick stuff and you'll have little to no problems. you can use
the stuff straight out of the can or if need be thin 50/50 with the
recommended thinner for the brand of paint you use. Most oil base
paints like mineral spirits. Kerry (10835) |
| Al: I'm sure there
is a lot of good paint that could be mixed to the South Bend color,
but you aren't likely to get it at your local paint store. I HIGHLY
recommend the paint that South Bend sells, already mixed to the
proper color. This stuff is amazing -- it flows on well with a brush
(as long as temperature and humidity are not too high), and it
covers like no other paint I have used. It also dries hard and
resistant to oils, which are the characteristics you are not likely
to find in off-the-shelf enamel. As a matter of fact, I am using
South Bend's paint right now on a Rivett lathe, and I like it so
well I am going to order more today. Kim (10847) |
| Kim Is the paint SB
(or now LeBlond) currently sells the older green-grey, or the newer
"mostly grey" color? I have a 1957 with original paint which I
believe to be the green-grey (I am red-green color blind), and I
would like a small can of touch-up paint which flows out nicely when
brushed on. If you are (or were) matching paint on a SB with
original paint, could I ask the vintage? How bad (in price) is the
smallest can SB sells? Frank (10874) |
| Frank: It is a
rather dark gray. As it happens, my South Bend is 1957 vintage,
also, and this color matched the original perfectly. Maybe they used
two colors. The paint is about $21 for a quart. Rather pricey, but
the stuff covers amazingly well. I have put two coats on a lathe and
cabinet and still had paint left over from a quart can. Also did a
full-size milling machine from primed bare metal with less than one
quart. One coat will cover a similar colored paint base; two will
cover anything you have. Kim Steiner grey, or the newer "mostly
grey" color? I have a 1957 with original paint which I believe to be
the green-grey (I am red-green color blind), and I would like a
small can of touch-up paint which flows out nicely when brushed on.
If you are (or were) matching paint on a SB with original paint,
could I ask the vintage? How bad (in price) is the smallest can SB
sells? (10895) |
| Kim, 20 dollars a
quart, that's 80 dollars a gallon! If someone who has the exact
paint and will paint a 4" x4" flat piece of metal with it....let it
dry and them take it to a Sherwin Williams store they will read it
with a computer scanner which will tell them exactly what the
formula is for the type of coating one wants it in. Get an exact
match Name the color whatever you want then Every S W store in the
country can mix it. An Oil base Industrial Enamel usually sells for
around 25 dollars a gallon and they do sell quarts and if that
sounds like too much trouble if you would send me a sample The next
time I am at SW I will be glad to have the color read and Then we
will have it. Mike (10906) |
| Kim, I have a 1959.
I like what I'm reading regarding the SB paint. What is the best
method to degrease/clean the parts prior to paint? Matt (10918) |
| Yes, I know the
local paint store can do that. I've been there and done it . . . and
been disappointed with a painted surface that does not hold up well
to normal machine wear, oils, and solvents. Again, I am not saying
that there are not other suitable paints, but after several trials
and errors I am now using South Bend paint for all my machines
– even though I would sometimes prefer a different color than
battleship gray. After spending dozens of hours reducing a machine
to its smallest parts, cleaning, degreasing, replacing bearings,
rewiring controls, masking, priming, and painting, the $10- 20 cost
per machine of good paint is an absolutely inconsequential
consideration. If you want to do touch-up, then take a small part
down to Sherwin-Williams and have them match it. But if you are
really doing restoration, then I suggest getting a professional's
advice on paint formulation (not color) for the intended use. Or
just do as I do and buy with confidence from good old South Bend
(and I have no connection with the company). As far as cost, I might
add that I have been having a professional do the painting on the
old cast iron fans that I restore as a hobby, and the cost of that
paint is $31.45 per PINT! Apparently, good paint costs good money.
Kim (10927) |
| Matt: I use a
variety of methods depending on practicality. For the milling
machine I did in the middle of winter last year, my only alternative
was to wipe and rinse it down repeatedly with mineral spirits. I
followed that with a couple of liberal wipes with acetone (with a
face mask on), and the paint seemed to stick well. I often use
Simple Green, especially for small parts in my ultrasonic cleaner.
But for big stuff, if you can get outside with a hose, nothing beats
a scrub brush and tri-sodium phosphate (TSP), available in powder
form at hardware stores. It is amazing how TSP can take grease off
and leave a paintable surface with no further preparation. Kim
(10929) |
| Matt, I use mineral
spirits and a Scotchbrite pad or a sponge with a Scotchbrite pad
on one side, like you can buy at Walmart. On really caked on grease
use mineral spirits and a brass brush. After everything is clean, I
blow dry all the parts with compressed air, and do a second wipe
down with mineral spirits. On rusty stuff, you can use naval jelly
with the brass brush, or WD40 + brush. Don't leave the naval jelly
on for too long as it can turn machined cast iron black.
Eric (10932) |
| Kim, I think my
intention was lost in the transmission. For starters lets not assume
that because the paint is expensive that it is better .Secondly
Sherwin Williams is a multinational company which after reading the
formula for color could and will mix an exact match. After the
formula is obtained anyone wishing a quart or gallon would be only
as far as their local SW store for a fresh quart . I was educated as
a Chemist and have been a Painting Contractor for the last 25 years.
Mike (10946) |
| After talking up
South Bend paint for the past couple of days, I have to pull back
some. I just received my new can today from South Bend, and it is
different. At least it smells different, and it came in a different
can (Sherwin-Williams, no less). Not only that, but the tint is
slightly different (lighter gray), and just when I am in the middle
of painting my Rivett! All bets are off until I learn about this
stuff over the next few weeks. Kim (10956) |
| Kim, Like I said in
my original response Oil base paints are being phased out even for
industrial applications. The new VOC laws are changing the paint
industry. (10958) |
| I have an airplane
and have repainted various sections using various types of coatings.
Folks, let me assure you that the prices that the various
manufacturers ask for their products, like South Bend, are
extraordinarily reasonable compared to any aircraft certified part
(close tolerance prop bolts-nineteen bucks apiece-and you need six;
2 aircraft spark plugs per cylinder at fifteen to eighteen dollars
each) and turbine parts are higher by several multiples. Paint, like
Dupont Imron, will cost you several hundred dollars per gallon of
paint, activator, and the appropriate additives; my airline employer
will use up to a couple of hundred pounds per airplane getting that
pretty corporate paint scheme on. I know everybody's financial
situation is different, and part of the fun is matching the paint on
the bottom of a sixty year old carriage at your local DuPont, PPG,
or Sherwin Williams supplier, but if you ask me, too, the price that
SB wants for their paint seems more than reasonable. By the way, the
two part paints that you see on show cars and custom choppers at the
auto show-the kind that looks say green from one angle and blue from
another-can set you back up to FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS a unit, which
is a gallon of color and usually a gallon of activator.
Bill (10965) |
| This last can of
paint from South Bend is still oil-based. It just doesn't smell like
the stuff I had gotten from them before, which had an odor quite
unlike most enamels. Kim (10973) |
| William, I know
that some of the High Tech coatings can be quite pricey (Epoxy etc.)
but, what we are talking here is Industrial Enamels and like I said
South Bend does not make their own Paint and if "we" could get the
mixing formula SW or any national paint company could mix it as
needed without sending to Lebond and waiting. Mike (10975) |
| Kim, The smell is
probably due to a change in the vehicle (Solvent used )It originally
probably had Xylene or M.E.K. wicked smelling but, dried fast. (10976) |
| If you can boil
them in lye that will get just about every bit of grease off the
parts. Kerry (10977) |
| Bill had mentioned
the high cost of good paint and he's right the figures he give for
Imeron are on the ball and any photochromic colors are beyond most
peoples budgets. and this is just the paint then you need someone
who know what the hell there doing to achieve the top results with
the top quality paint. But not to hammer any one we are talking a
machine tool here that gets greasy and dirty with metal and other
materials all over it in the form of chips. So in my experience
Frazee areo plate is a top notch finish for machine tool's. A lot of
the machine tool I painted six to eight years ago are just now
showing signs of wear. If you are in and are that has a Home Depot
they have Areoplate on the shelf for around $15.00 per gallon and
will mix it to any color. It is not the best but it will cover a
machine, it sticks well with little prep work, and it lasts the best
thing is you don't need to know much about paint to use this stuff.
If you've painted your house inside or out then you can paint with
this stuff. it's ready to use out of the can to brush or roll or if
you have a spay gun that will shoot thick paint then go for it other
wise you will need to thin it with mineral spirits to allow it to
shoot from spray guns that only handle auto type finishes. other
then that there are no additives like activator, hardener, clear
coats, special thinners. All I'm saying is get as close to the color
you want as you can get and get the best paint you can. Oh and it
works great on the bottom of boats that will be stored on a trailer
(nothing replaces antifouling bottom paint) I painted my 16FT
aluminum skiff about five years ago and the paint is still on it no
signs of blistering and the only places it has come off is where I
forced it off by hitting something... Rocks, docks, missed the
trailer up over the fender, beaching it so the wife can use the
head. can you tell I like the stuff. there's nothing like finding a
product that work so well on so many different things and cheep too.
Kerry (10979) |
| One question that
pops into my mind is why not powder coat ? getting the color is not
that hard, and the finished product is VERY hard. are there problems
heating (baking) the metals when drying (cooking, sealing??) the
paint ? (10986) |
| Boil them in Lye!!
Man alive....Be careful !!Lye will dehydrate the hell out of skin
(dissolve) blind you and the fumes are toxic. There are just too many
better cleaners on the market to chance that. Mike (10987) |
| My understanding is
that SB merely put out a bid for paint from the various suppliers
every year or so when they needed restocking for production, and the
winning bid was the official SB paint until they put out another
one. Only in the last few years or decade would I assume that a new
company's formula would be easily matched to some standard, and I
imagine in the thirties to the fifties it would be not a big deal to
be off several shades. I imagine that a person going down to their
industrial supplier to computer match a sliver of undamaged paint on
their old lathe could hit that shade perfectly, something the entire
coatings industry couldn't do at that time! Bill (10988) |
| Kerry, I can't
agree more. I've shot Imron twice and I will never do it again,
unless I have a remote air supply. These paints are isocyanates and
they will kill you with their fumes. A lathe can be beautifully and
I mean beautifully, painted with a brush. Bill (10989) |
| And taking an
undamaged sliver of paint from a (say) 1950 lathe takes no account
of fade, or chemical damage from lubricant suds, and maybe even
cleaning solvent effects, over a number of years. Old paint seen
today, even from an 'underneath' or hidden area, is hardly likely to
be the shade as originally applied. Even a boxed example, that never
saw the light of day until the present, would likely have seen
chemical aging and slight color change, particularly if the the
paint base were organic, eg, linseed oil. I used a photo that was
posted here a few months ago, of an oldish unsold lathe, to get a
color match to paint my own, but only as something to identify with,
rather than in the knowledge of an authentic match. Most of my
working life has been spent as a carriage builder/restorer and
wheelwright, and I've seen old paint from all sorts of trapped and
concealed areas and seen it vary enormously on the same vehicle. It
just cannot be relied on. Be happy with what suits you and your
perceptions of how it might have been. Len (10990) |
| I
didn't think my original post about the color of my SB-9 was going
to raise such conversation. As far as I am concerned, I am fussy and
want to be just as authentic as the next guy. Really, who cares
about weather the paint is an "exact match" or is the finish as good
as a custom motor cycle paint job like you would see on American
Chopper (Discovery Channel)? These lathes are tools that when
purchased and used in machine shops, the user didn't care what the
darn thing looked like. And if I put my self at the South Bend
assembly plant in 1946, and I'm in charge of painting, the can of
paint I use today isn't going to match the can I am going to used
next week, It is 1946 after all. On the bottom of the bed on my 1947
SB-9 there are paint drips all along the bottom. Bringing an old
machine back to factory specs is not a science. The paint finish was
not that great to start with, and no special paint was probably
used, just oil based enamel, and it was probably slapped on with a
brush. The bottom line is we all own South Bends because they are
well made, heavy, precision machines, better than what we can buy
today. Eric (10994) |
| Yep boil them in
LYE!!! you think that stainless steel your machining is any safer or
what about the fumes from cutting oils. It will work just don't use
to much in the water and be careful. But you are right there is a
bunch of stuff out there that will get the metal clean. But I like
chemically clean on an old machine that has had years to soak up
oil. (10999) |
| Ah yes
But I do care what it looks like I won't use a machine unless it's
gray, Machine gray. No green just gray. Any shade will do but these
are my personal choices Bridgeport gray, South bend gray, Hardinge
gray, Colechester gray, Brown and Sharp gray, Lagun, Gorton,
Cincinnati, and my all time favorite BATTLE SHIP GRAY. Kerry (11000) |
| Caustic soda ,
sodium hydroxide, lye, whatever you want to call it, IS safe,
provided that safe practices are used. Info on those is all over the
web, and easily got. Stripping of old pine furniture etc in large
tanks of weak cold caustic soda solution, followed by fresh water
soaking and then air drying, is a common practice in the antique
trade here in the UK. I used it a lot in my time in the carriage
trade, for steel and iron parts as well as timber. It certainly does
shift embedded oils in metal. I found it unsuitable for hardwood
dipping. But, for general degreasing prior to painting, don't you
chaps over the pond have "Gunk"? That's a commonly available
solution here in UK, used in the auto trade, for engine degreasing
etc, which works very well and is water rinsed. Len (11003) |
| Kerry, do you,
drive a Gray Car? Just curious. There are a lot more choices
now than 50 years ago. In some ways, less choice. Not a bad thing,
either. I don't want a leaded paint, and can avoid that now. There
are epoxies, two part paints, powder coating, and lots of other
choices. It seems that the group could come to a general consensus -
and a general set of choices. Does not have to be just one choice,
mind you. We all experiment. Some have even argued to "leave the
natural patina" be. I have a SB 16" I want to work on in June - and
have not heard a consensus answer. Dave Audette's web site and his
actual work on a Heavy 10 influenced me as to a practical way of
doing things... but what do other people think? Seems like some UK
types ought to mumble their thoughts here. I find some of their
sites and work amazing. Clockmakers and old equipment restorers have
produced some mind boggling work. So how do I and what color do I
paint my poor SB 16"? My daughter thinks Corvette Yellow (powder
coat) - as a two part paint solution. I like Gray, when done well.
But it is color and technology.. Jerry Robinson FYI... I don't think
that when the SouthBend staff was making paint decisions in 1943
that they were thinking about their machines being such prized and
useful items 50+ years later. But may be we all think that way
now.... so If I want this to be in good shape for 50 or 100 years
from now, then what is the right choice today? It is more than a
shade of Gray. Let's do this right. (11004) |
| Anyone suspecting
that the OEM paint is lead-pigmented? This can explain the shift in
colors as the machines age. Titanium dioxide pigments do not shift,
like the old lead carbonates, in the presence of sulfur. Funny story
from the PVC Industry: In the early '60's some lead pigments were
still in use in plastics. The real reason lead was hastily abandoned
was not environmental: Light-colored drivers' seats in cars were
infamous for demonstrating the old sulfide test for lead. "Driver
Exhaust" would in the course of time leave dark permanent stains in
the upholstery in the center of the seat. (I worked at Tenneco
Chemicals at the time.) So one wonders if the colors that are being
matched would be different in a machine whose life did not include
Sul-Flo cutting oils, etc. (11005) |
| Actually no so I
guess I will use a machine that's not gray. Opps. Powder coating
would be fine and is one of the most durable and best looking forms
of paint out there I just don't have that kind of cash. And no place
to DIY Kerry paint, other a find equipment solution. being 50 but of
cycle along and own on sentences. (11014) |
| If there is a local
metal group where you are at, it might not cost so much. HF has
these $70 kits - and paint is out there lots of places not that
expensive, it seems. I don't have a lot of know how here, but it
seems you could piece together every thing needed for about $100 -
and the help of some friends. Don't have to invent or buy everything
yourself, either. There might be others willing to split cost -
could be they want to do this too. I do things at weird times and
want stuff for the long term - only reason I bought some my own
powder coat tools. I have some car parts needing painting, so know
there is a lot work ahead for me.
Jerry (11022) |
| Kim- Let me see if
I can explain away some of the difference. South Bend Lathe bought
the gray enamel in large quantities, obviously to paint machines
with and sell to customers. LeBlond buys the same paint but it comes
in small prepackage cans. We use the same Sherwin Williams part
number but we buy it from a different vendor. I will guess that is
why you are noticing a difference. I cannot talk about the smell
since I have never bothered to smell any. Sorry if this has caused
problems for you. It is not our intent to change from what South
Bend offered. Please let me know if I can be of any assistance.
Rose Marvin (11099) |
| Rose: Thank you for
responding. If you are saying that you are selling the same
formulation of paint that I purchased a years ago, then I am glad to
hear it. My impression upon opening my new can was tentative, and my
nose is certainly fallible after 30 years of smoking, but I felt an
obligation to send up a caution after telling everyone how good your
stuff was. Frankly, even if your paint was no better than
off-the-shelf enamel at the local paint store, I would still be
inclined to patronize South Bend/LeBlond because you are a valuable
resource to those of us with "recycled" South Bends, and I WOULD
LIKE TO KEEP YOU IN BUSINESS. For the same reason, I tend to buy
from our locally owned, independent hardware store rather than
Lowe's and Wal-Mart. Kim (11139) |
| Powder coating
and colors |
| Anybody think about
powder coating their units? Dave IS safe, provided that safe
practices are used. Info on those is all over the web, and easily
got. Stripping of old pine furniture etc in large tanks of weak cold
caustic soda solution, followed by fresh water soaking and then air
drying, is a common practice in the antique trade here in the UK. I
used it a lot in my time in the carriage trade, for steel and iron
parts as well as timber. It certainly does shift embedded oils in
metal. I found it unsuitable for hardwood dipping. the pond have
"Gunk"? That's a commonly available solution here in UK, used in the
auto trade, for engine degreasing etc, which works very well and is
water rinsed. (11026) |
| Regarding colors,
WoodDragon pained his 9" wild sci fi colors and it looks great.
Unfortunately, his site is under revision so the pic is not
available. If you really wanted to stay SB Gray, I would bet you can
get the colors matched.. My question is on baking all the parts. how
hot do you need to get the paint ? Dave (11027) |
| Dave. I don't see
what the big deal is about paint. I used Rustoleum Smoke Gray and IT
matched the paint on my SB9C perfectly. I wasn't about to spend big
bucks just to match factory paint. As long as the paint looks good
and holds up who cares what brand or color is used? I too am one of
those people that believe all machines should be painted gray. It
just looks nicer in a shop when everything matches. Bill C. (11028) |
| I am not trying to
restore a machine back to factory specs. There are mods that I think
make it a tool, not a piece of history. there are others who find
great satisfaction in 'factory fresh' condition. big dials poly vee
belts QC tool post VSD DRO Quick clamp tailstock these are on my
mods list. paint color does not have to match for me, and I found
that there are some nice (grey) powder colors available. When the
chips start polishing the carriage I enjoy the cleaning effect but
know that it would remove most paints. I don't have that happen
often, but on a finish cut, I just wait until the cut is done. Dave
(11033) |
| Dave. That's why
I chose to use the Rustoleum because it is fairly inexpensive and
when some of the paint gets chipped I just touch it up a bit. Now if
I were to just have the lathe setting as a show piece I would then
get the factory finish as close as possible. I realize there are
individuals that are sticklers when it comes to getting something
looking like the original. It's each individuals choice. Bill C.
(11034) |
| I have 2 lathes, an
A and a C the C is in pretty good shape and the A has suffered thru
at least 2 paint jobs. being an old gov't lathe, it was subjected to
the if it don't move, paint it attitude. Needless to say, I plan on
a new paint job. I'm leaning towards power coat as it give me an
excuse to get the tools. : ) color is another matter. not sure what
that will be. probably the handles/levers will be Red or something,
moving parts one color and safety parts another. Then the rest some
colors that make it look cool. Dave (11038) |
| Thinking
about breaking tradition myself (in my old age; older than the
psychedelic era). Have a couple of new old machines; thinking about
painting them Ford tractor blue instead of Ford tractor gray. I use TSC tractor enamel; good old fashioned enamel that sprays better
than anything else I've ever used, thins cleans up with mineral
spirits. No fancy reducers, accelerators, retarders, etc, about $20
a gallon! Real durable, too. Does a good job of baking on in the
central Texas summer sun. Just comes in black, white, and tractor
colors though. I spray it with a spray gun; spray cans also
available to use for touching up the inevitable nicks scratches.
Lew (11049) |
| Paint options
|
| I stopped by the
Porter Paint/PPG paint store this afternoon to pick up supplies for
my latest honeydo list. They mentioned they had a great two part
epoxy which could be tinted to match almost any color and would even
encapsulate tight rust spots. They also mentioned that epoxies chalk
outdoors, so for outdoors, one would best put a two part urethane
over the epoxy to protect it. (The urethane does not encapsulate the
rust adequately). They can also provide powder coats in hundred
pound orders! They did mention that two part paints are only sold to
contractors. Interesting, but I think only very young members of the
list have to think about using epoxy. Mike W (11053) |
| I'll bet most will
be glad that this is the last I will say on the subject of
painting....so here goes....Epoxies, Powder coatings, Activated
Urethanes....all fine coatings but, lets remember we are painting
tools that are to be used and maintained and part of maintaining is
the periodic repainting with the same basic coating that the factory
used in the first place....a readily available industrial maintenance
coating not some high tech space age paint that calls for a fresh air
mask or baking. Clean up your machine every so often and when needed
repaint it. Mike (11056) |
| Mike, I have one
lathe from '32 that got one coat of paint from the factory and has
been cleaned over the years. the other from the 50's looks to have
gotten 2 coats, one to match, one looks like it was to cover the
dirt. There are places like the carriage and tailstock, that will be
abused horribly with tools and chips, but with little concern, the
rest of the lathe will never need 2 coats. I am on the side of point
of view rather than firm belief. I think that if painting the lathe
gets me the powder coat gun... great ! If I just wanted it to look
nice, I'd buy twice the paint I needed and keep the can for
touch-ups. I think the bottom line is to decide what method you
like/want/need and do that. I bet there are lots of guys who are
asking "are you gonna paint or make chips"? Dave (11063) |
| Part
temperatures |
| Really? this would
mean that a 'greenhouse' could be make pretty darn large and set in
the yard to do the baking. heck, a couple reflectors and you could
easily get 400 degrees. another "Why didn't I think if that"
solutions Dave (11062) |
I found this site
useful for real stuff and Info. I am not affiliated with them.
http://www.eastwoodcompany.com --jerry
(11069) |
| Dave I would hate
to say how many valve covers and slot car motor cans I have done in
wrinkle paint that way over the years. JWE (11077) |
| I guess I just
assumed the powder coat was some extremely special high-tech stuff.
Seems that all it is is some 'plastic' than needs to melt to seal.
Dave (11078) |
| Powder Coating |
| Steve, I was
wondering if you do your own powder coating? If yes, did you buy the
kit from the Eastwood catalog? I want to start powder coating and I
was wondering how it works for you. Philip (13148) |
| Yes, I do my own
powder coating, I started with an Eastwood kit and the old oven from
the house. I now have a 42 inch wide industrial oven and am using a
gun from Columbia Coatings. I still buy a lot of my powders from
Eastwood. I have been very satisfied with the whole powder coating
process. Coating castings does take some extra work as grease and
oil tend to come out of the castings if you are not careful. It
sometimes takes a couple of sessions in the oven to get all the oil
to come out. Steve
(13167) |
| Steve, Is it
possible to powder coat hinges? I make my own hinges for wrought
iron work and was wondering if the powder coat would cause the
hinges to lock up or maybe even bind... Also, what do you like about
the Columbia Coatings gun as opposed to the Eastwood gun. Which gun
would you suggest I get? Philip (13193) |
| You would have to
mask the bearing area and coat them before you assemble them.
Usually holes are masked with silicone plugs. The powder will not
get into the the hinge bearing area but might bridge over the 2
parts of the hinge. The Columbia gun ( same as Harbor Freight ) is a
gravity feed vs the Eastwood with a siphon feed. Either will do the
job but I am getting slightly better results with the Columbia gun.
The Eastwood gun seems a little easier to clean and uses a pretty
standard cup ( the Eastwood powders now come in the same cup which
is real convenient just screw it on and go). (13194) |
| Southbend
colors |
| As far as I know
the only standard colors Southbend ever had for its lathes were
black (on very early lathes) and a number of shades of grey. Some
Southbend lathes with original paint look green because of a oil
film build up over the years. Gary(13979) |
| Some while back
someone posted a picture of a brand new, but vintage SB lathe,
discovered unsold and in storage all its life. That lathe looked
pale greenish grey in the photo. I scanned the pic and got the
color closest to that when I painted mine. I like it, whether
original or not. Len (13984) |
| I understand the
"purists" point of view, although I definitely hate the SouthBend
gray color. I think I'm going to go with the color scheme that
another SB user posted on the Chaski boards. Here's the link to the
"9/11 Red, White Blue" Shaper by Joe Guidry, What a gem!:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Metal_Shapers/ (13998) |
| Urethane
Enamel |
| Could someone tell
me if urethane Enamel can be used in a Wagner Power Painter and If
so what dilution? Vinny (14268) |
| Go to the Benjamin
Moore paint website and ask them. They are quick to respond and are
very helpful. I used their M22 base high gloss paint. JP (14281) |
| Having been
a Painter for the past 25years and using and buying a multitude of
Painting equipment have found that Wagner machine will only work if
the material being sprayed is thinned to the point that the paint is
ruined. If you are set on spraying the Urethane Enamel go and rent or
barrow a Graco . Mike (14283) |
| Painting the
change gear plate? |
| The brass plate on
my "new" QC gearbox is faded to the point that it is unreadable. The
lettering is still raised a little but the paint is about gone. How
would you go about repainting it without covering up the lettering?
Is there a restoration specialist that does this? (15444) |
| Yes, there are
restorers that do this for cars etc. but the prices are HIGH. I
received a bid of something like 800.00 for a far simpler plate on
my 44' Harley. Do a search on data plates, id plates and similar.
(15445) |
| I think
one of our SB board members makes these plate. Might check for
availability. Also, check the used dealers, Sobel, Plaza and
Meridian, they may sell used ones in very good condition. Tom
(15446) |
| Here are a few
options: In the Photos section, there's a guy who sells reproduction
plates. His stuff is on eBay also. Another option is to look in the
phone book for outfits that make bowling trophies, awards plaques,
etc. If you provide them some original art or images, they can print
it on a brass or aluminum plate (don't know how many colors though).
The other option I like is to make your own decals, the type you
soak in water and slide off, just like the ones in plastic models.
You can buy this special paper and print them out on your own inkjet
printer. So if you can you use Photoshop or PowerPoint, or if you
have a good jpeg or tiff image, you can just print your own, up to 8
1/2 x 11. Jeff (15447) |
| Yes, Randy sells
the replacement plates, he is a member right here. They are only
about 35.00. Clint (15448) |
| You can make your
own plate look pretty good by first cleaning it up as best as you
can. Then scanning it at high rez and then repaint the images silk
screened areas in a photo shop like program. Then print it out on
film, the water transfer or sticky backed type and put it over your
original. Its the same principal as the silk screening they did
originally and keeps your original stamping intact. You might try
the heat transfer sheets but I haven't tried these myself on metal.
For best results a photo quality ink jet or dye sub printer is
needed. On a boat I put several coats of clear over the decal just
to be on the safe side. (15450) |
| I have successfully
repainted these with this procedure: 1. Clean and polish the plate
with fine scotch bright. 2. Paint the plate with enamel paint,
painting over the lettering. 3. Saturate a piece of poster board or
cardboard with lacquer thinner. 4. Rub the face of the plate gently
against the poster board to remove the paint from the raised areas
to expose the brass lettering. 5. Spray on a light coat of clear
lacquer or polyurethane. It might take a couple attempts to get the
hang of it, but it can be very successful. It doesn't work well if
the plate is badly bent or dented. Jim
(15452) |
| I bought one of
these plates for my 9" model A QC box. Very nice, well done piece of
work. I haven't yet figured out how to get the old one off though,
so it hasn't been installed yet. Anyone have tips on getting the old
screws out? One very minor nitpik on the 9" QC plate, there is a
typo where a feed rate of .180 was printed as .108, as I recall.
Doesn't bother me, but maybe would bother someone more persnickety
than I am. John (15454) |
| I am in the process
of rebuilding a 10K lathe. I bought from Randy a new plate, nicely
made. In order to remove the rivets, I used a very small screw
driver (Like those found in sets in one dollar stores). With a
hammer, I inserted the screwdriver between the rivet and the plate.
It moved it upward slightly. Then, I used a pair of wise grips to
pull them out. The rivets are still usable. This damaged slightly
the old plate, and the screw driver. Guy (15457) |
| I use a Magic
Marker. (15458) |
| In some cases you
can get behind the rivet, for instance on the end cover, if so then
a small punch will drive it out without any damage. I have also used
a very sharp chisel and tapped on it from the outside. All you need
to do is move the rivet slightly and it will move enough to remove
with pliers. It is actually not a rivet but a screw of sorts the
threads have a high feed. I have replaced the rivets with stainless
torx screws scrounged from hard drives. Later South Bends had the
plates held on with regular pop rivets. (15460) |
| John I did
not notice the error in the plate feed rate on the one I got, I need
to take another look and get back with Randy about it I would
suggest drilling out the old pins that hold the plate, Randy sent me
new pins with my plate. Clint (15461) |
| Be careful! if you
drill out, Randy's pins don't necessarily fit the old holes. I tried
Randy's pins. They are fine for the oil chart that fits the belt
cover on my SB 10K. On the gear box, it is another story; the pins
are slightly larger on my gear box. Randy's pins won't fit there.
Guy (15464) |
| I have had luck in
using a small pin punch and driving them out from the backside.
Drilling them out can elongate the hole and require a larger new
pin. If they are in a blind hole I have sharpened a small cold
chisel (similar to a wood chisel) and grind a small notch in it with
a Dremmel type burr. Think of a 'cats paw' nail remover with a flat
back in miniature. You can sometimes grab the head with a pair of
nippers with a flat face like the nail pullers the horseshoers use.
Diagonal wire cutters with a flat ground back will also work, just
be careful you don't cut the head off the pin in the process of
removing it. Twist and pull, the drive pins are sometimes spirally
fluted. If all else fails, drill and tap a new hole and use screws.
JP
(15476) |
| Paint the plate and
wipe the paint off of the raised letters with solvent dampened cloth
pulled tight over a flat surface like a paint stick. Only wipe it
once per cloth wiper because the second wipe will put paint back on
the letters. You may need more than one cloth wiper. Touch it up
after the paint dries with 'bright boy' (grit impregnated rubber) by
hand. If you mess up on the first attempt you can just wipe off the
whole plate while the paint is wet and start over. Don't get too
persnickety with the wiping off of every ding and edge, the bright
boy will take care of that. JP (15492) |
| Paint help
needed |
| I'm using Ben/moore
M22 industrial paint. Brushed on not thinned. The listed dry time is
2hr to touch (I'm at 8) But my concern is how long does this paint
take to become hard and durable ? It's easy to scratch aft 24hr.
(drying environment at 70 degrees F). Adam (18199) |
| Even
automotive paint with a hardener added takes time to harden. Handle
gently for a month or so. Joe R. (18200) |
| Add sunlight in an
enclosed area to raise temperature above 150deg for about 5 hours. JWE (18202) |
| I am still in the
process of restoring my Heavy 10, and I am using M22 Benjamin Moore
paint. 90% of my parts have been painted via conventional spray.
During the winter months, I had a ventless propane heater in my
shop, which drove the humidity to 90%+. It would take days for the
paint to dry to the touch. Now in the spring, I can paint a part and
10 hours later I can grab and move the part without worry. If you
read the data sheets for the paint, I believe that they specify that
the temperature be at least 5deg above the dew point. (You will have
to do the math to see if your temp/humidity meet spec) After my chip
tray had been painted for 5 weeks, I scratched it without too much
effort. (accidentally) Be patient. I believe that this stuff is very
durable, and will take time to cure. (18204) |
| I found that I need
to get the paint warmer. I was drying in the garage. This is heated
but not warm. Moving the parts into the furnace room improved the
situation a lot. I baked some of the smaller parts in the oven at
175F for 20 minutes (When my wife was out. This also helped. I am
sanding (180 grit) the primer before the final coat and the baking
was on the primer. After a few days in the furnace room (This is
where my lathe is) The paint seems OK. Jim B. (18205) |
| Repainting
1945 SB 9" Model A |
| Does anyone
have the paint and color data for repainting this lathe. Previous
posts have listed Benjamin-Moore M22 Industrial enamel, but not the
color. (18565) |
| Color number 3418
(18568) |
| Here is a link to
some pictures of my rebuild job. I used the same color that J.P.
stated (Benjamin Moore Color #3418) Click on the "Assembly" photos
to see the painted parts. This way you can decide if you like the
color or not.
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/chris_c_willis/my_photos
(18571) |
| Chris, Looks great!
I'll be painting my SB 9 next month and have been searching the
forum for tips. How did you prep and apply the paint on your
machine? TJ
(18572) |
| That's a beautiful
job, Chris. Look forward to learn how you did it. chris
(18575) |
| Paint
questions |
I have searched the
archives looking for paint info. and have seen the references to
Benjamin Moore M22 #3418. Exactly what color is this? My lathe 9"
Model A from the fall of 1960 is painted a green color, a sea foam,
kind of like the early Mercury outboards. Is this the original
color? I was under the impression that the original color was a
battleship kind of grey? Mark
(18940) |
| 3418 is gray. Sort
of a medium gray. I have a gallon. I seem to remember that Rose,
from SB, once mentioned that if you bought a batch of lathes you
could have them in any color you wanted. There was an earlier SB
color which was a green-gray but not seafoam. I recently acquired a
Burke #4. It is/was gray over green over gray. Perhaps there was a
Machine Shop interior decorator going around at the time painting
things green. Jim B.
(18942) |
| When I worked on
submarines they would paint each coat with alternating colors, grey
and light grey. This would allow them to verify complete coating of
each coat. Maybe they hired an inspector from the Navy. JP
(18948) |
| There was a
greenish grey on some lathes. I was the one who came up with the
3418 color. My lathe had oil soaked paint and it was a bit greenish
in places but I took off a handle and cleaned it and stripped off
the surface paint and then matched the color to the paint chips. It
may not be a perfect match but it is very close to the original
color of my lathe and the urethane enamel is good in an oily
environment. JP (18949) |
| Mark, The color
from B.M is a cross reference to Dutch Boy 367. Mike (18953) |
| I bought a
beautiful 16" Rockford at an auction. It had the regular grey paint,
but underneath it was BRIGHT YELLOW! I remember my Dad telling me
that in the 70's some motivational idiot told GE to let each person
paint their machine whatever color they wanted to increase
productivity. It made the machine their own little piece of artwork.
Be the machine, caress the machine, love the machine. He thought it
was goofy and I still do. I still have to strip all the yellow paint
off that Rockford. Paul (18954) |
| When I bought my SB
10K, it was painted green (over light grey) The previous owner had
done a "nice paint job " in order to make it attractive. With the
exception of bed ways, everything was painted. Everything includes
the chuck, dials, handles, tailstock sleeve you name it, it
was painted. Fortunately, it was badly painted and on many parts
that were regularly in contact with oil, paint lifted off very easy
I am in the process of re-building it. I sand blasted everything
that I could, including the bed. (after coating the machined
surfaces with duct tape) I got some Benjamin Moore paint made up. I
ended up with a light grey that is of a slightly lighter grey than
what I could use as reference color from the original parts. (color
is looking good to me) For my Craftsman lathe (that is still mostly
on its original color) I got a almost perfect match. (difference is
that the finish is glossy) It is very useful for paint touch ups I
found a SB thread dial (deadly cheap, couldn't afford to leave it in
the store) It has many chips of paint that lifted off, but the color
is green (some sort of olive green) and it seems to be the original
color from the factory. The thread dial looks new (if you make
abstraction of the paint job) In the same box, I found a light grey
idler gear 80T I have seen some SB machines painted some sort of
battleship grey. (actually darker) (18961) |
| Don't know about
the original color of your 1960 model, Mark, but my Lend-Lease 9B
gets painted with grey floor paint. It's about the right grey,
slightly flexible and stands the oil, abrasion etc. very well, being
designed for such things. Rob. (18965) |
| Suggestions
for paint? |
| I know the
subject of paint has been discussed before, especially the B.M. M22,
but has anyone found a decent off-the-shelf paint that's suitable for
lathe use? After tearing down my SB 9 model A, I started repainting
some parts using Rust-Oleum professional series spray paint and
found the results to be marginal. It works OK on parts where the
entire surface is coated, but on other parts such as the carriage
assy where quite a bit is masked, durability is marginal. Perhaps
there is a better coating I could brush on and still get a decent
finish? Tom (19684) |
| Make sure you
use a commercial metal etching primer under the paint. It gives a
good bond to the metal and is made to protect the adhesion of the
paint. Paul (19685) |
| I brushed the M22
on my lathe. I used the Benjamin Moor primer first however. The
downside is the cost ~$22 per gallon and it only comes in gallons. I
purchased 8 empty quart cans at HD ~$1.25 each and emptied the
gallon cans into the Quart cans. This stops the can-in-use from
going bad. I stripped all parts in the "electrolytic stripper"
first. Then wirebrushed them and then wiped them down with paper
towels and solvent. I applied one coat of the BM primer. (M-4 I
believe. The local BM man tinted the primer to match) On the parts
were the sand marks showed I sanded lightly, sometimes filling the
roughness with body filler (no not epoxy, the primer based filler
that comes in a tube). If I filled I used a second coat of the BM
primer. Sanded lightly (100/120) grit and then brushed the final
coat on. I note a significant difference in the application of the
BM during the warmer months as opposed to the cooler months. I did
my SB-9 in the February time frame. My Garage is somewhat heated. ~65
degrees. The parts needed to be moved into the cellar to dry
properly and they would take a day or two. The application was
sticky. I used the same paint on my New-Old Burke #4 (not quite the
same as the original color but for $22 close enough). This is a work
in process. On a warm day the paint flows very well, Runs are
minimal and it dries quickly, to the touch in 2 to 3 hours. One
quart has done the Burke and most of the SB-9. I still have a
lifetime supply. Jim B.
(19688) |
| Thanks to all who
answered my recent question regarding paint. Since the rust-oleum
method does not seem to be working (not as durable as I would have
liked), I decided to head over to the local B.M dealer and ask for a
gallon on M22 in South Bend colors. The young fellow behind the
counter gave me a blank stare. What exactly should I have asked for?
Tom
(19828) |
| Tom, Sherwin
Williams manes SB's paint. (19829) |
| I used BM M-22
paint color #3418. I have some pics posted if you want to review the
color before making a decision. I also used M-06 Primer. (Highly
recommended) I used a conventional suction feed gun to paint most
parts. I used model paint brushes on the smaller parts. Thinning was
not required for either method. If you still have trouble, reply to
this message, and I will dig up the invoice from when I ordered the
paint. (19830) |
| Where are you
located. When I got my (required) gallon of each, I separated it
into quart cans to reduce the problem of skimming over. I have used
less than one quart on my SB-9 and My Burke #4. If you are in NJ you
can have a quart of each. Jim B. (19832) |
| S-W can also match
BM's paint using BM's numbers. I painted my 10L over twenty years
ago with S-W's paints and it still looks like the day I put it on. I
didn't use primer and sprayed it all. There's no chips or
discoloration. Joe R.
(19836) |
| Urethane Alkyd
Gloss Enamel, deep base M22 3B, color# 3418 separated it into quart
cans to reduce the problem of skimming over. I have used less than
one quart on my SB-9 and My Burke #4. If you are in NJ you can have
a quart of each.
(19837) |
| I know that this is
over a month old but, I found paint at a Tractor Supply store that
was wonderful. They have machinery gray in two shades, dark gray and
a light gray. I tried the spray bombs but I didn't like how
solvents reacted to the paint. Just wasn't durable enough for me.
So I bought it by the quart and used their hardener with it. What a
finish! I sprayed mine with a small imported touch up gun that you
can purchase for under $40. The paint and hardener are inexpensive.
Just be sure to wear a mask when spraying. You probably would have
good results if you brushed it on too. Brian
(20191) |
| That's nice. How
about a brand or manufacturers name, part number (even paint has
that), etc. Fred (20192) |
| I'm stripping,
cleaning and painting a 13" SB lathe that I just bought. On Saturday
I bought "Tractor and Implement" red oxide primer, generic gray
finish, and enamel hardener at Tractor Supply. They have two brands,
one is Valspar and the other is BPS (I think). I bought the BPS. So
far, I've just sprayed primer, thinning with a little naphtha,
cleaning up with mineral spirits. The primer sprays well and doesn't
seem to want to sag. I've read elsewhere that this paint works well
on machine tools, has good oil and solvent resistance and that the
hardener helps. I cannot personally attest to this but we'll see.
Note that once you add the hardener, you've got about an eight hour
shelf life on the mix. Drying time seems to be about 3 hours to the
touch. There's a decent selection of colors, some generic ones and
others to match specific equipment - like "Massey Ferguson Gray".
About $21/gallon, hardener is about $10. Ed (20217) |
| Paint |
| I just bought a
heavy 10. The machine is in good shape but the paint is flaking in
many small areas. I do not want to strip the paint but what I am
considering is to wire brush and then use spot putty to fill these
areas before repainting. Is this practical ? What seems to cause
this spotting ? I don't see any marking as if the lathe has been hit
repeatedly. Has anyone found a machine grey in an aerosol spray
enamel? (20554) |
| This is entirely
practical. Over at one of the vertical mill groups, one guy who used
to work for Bridgeport says this is exactly what they did when
refurbishing machines. Other handy tools are a random orbit sander
and a "scaler" (like an air chisel with several 1/8" wire fingers).
I'm using a combination of everything where it makes sense for me
(scaling, sanding, blasting, and stripping) on my 10L. Also, you
might want to use a good respirator/dust mask, as I would bet the
original paint is lead based. Jeff I do not want to strip the paint
but what I am considering is to wire brush and repainting. Is this
practical ?
(20557) |
| I wonder if one of
those products that makes new paint adhere better to previously
painted surfaces would be worth considering? I've used the stuff in
my home when painting over enameled window trim, (I thin it was
Ban-O-San) and it works great - good adhesion to a formerly shiny
surface. but never on a metal tool. Anybody got experience? Frank
(20558) |
| Paint
specification |
| I have
just acquired a 9" C - 1940 vintage - and want to undertake a ground
up renovation. I have encountered a problem with the paint finish.
The commercial systems of primer/undercoat/ filler/ finish are
subject to minimum orders large enough to paint a small ship and
some are not supplied to non-commercial organizations for safety
reasons (maybe we might sniff it) Could someone suggest a suitable
system in basic terms - ie no trade names - so that I can find a
local supplier here in the UK. Christopher (21999) |
| I have used
Urethane Alkyd Gloss Enamel made by Benjamin Moore M22 base color
3418. Its not the original paint but the color is pretty close and
it stands up well to solvents. You can sniff it if you like but it
won't do anything except make your nose grey. Available by the pint
just like Guinness. JP (22000) |
| Best Paint
EVER |
| ....Would be one
that would stand up to Acetone. I like using acetone as a degreaser
and deoiler because it works so quickly and leaves no residue. But
if not removed quickly from the painted surface, it will remove the
paint. Do any of you know of a paint finish that would stand up to
acetone? (22579) |
Epoxy would be the
most resistant. Repeated use of acetone will eventually break it
down along with your skin and lungs.
(22580) |
| Sherwin-Williams
Prolane-T definitely does. I just used it on same. RichD (22583) |
| I've used Polane-T
in the past on the job. The only bitch is it has an isocyanate
catalyst--READ and FOLLOW the safety precautions, I did permanent
damage to my body working with the stuff...I think all the really
bulletproof paints have an isocyanate catalyst...Polane-T, Lenmar,
Imron to name a few. Lurch
(22584) |
| Lurch, I don't use
it (apply), I engrave supplied al panels that have been painted with
it. The wash to remove excess color filler is acetone. No effect to
the painted surface. RichD (22585) |
| Why not change
solvents? Acetone will mess with your liver is extremely flammable
and expensive. Mineral Spirits work as a fine solvent for grease and
oil and most oil base paints will stand up to it. Mike (22588) |
| Question on
color |
| Did south bend ever paint its machines
green [olive]? all that I have ever seen are gray, of course I
haven't
really been into this machinery long. I have a 10k and there's not a
speck of gray anywhere. not trying to be nitpicky, just
wondered. (24405) |
| My '42
9" is that olive color. This is the OEM color. An old machinist
dubbed this a variant of 'machinery grey". Mike (24406) |
| My 1952 13" SB
seems to have been painted green originally. It has been painted
gray the next 2 times that it was painted. The final paint job was
done with a brush, and the not very well done as far as runs and
brush hairs go. On the other hand it is protecting the surface of
the machine pretty well. Nick (24408) |
| My 1940 10L has
Military Zinc Chromate primer at the bottom, with green next,
followed by a poorly done gray on the top. Since it is a War Baby,
shipped to the U.S. Army in 1940, I am assuming it was shipped
primered and green, then somewhere in the dim, foggy past since,
someone got tired of looking at that green and hit it with gray.
Brian PS: Someone here has pics of one they restored that is green
with a black bench. Nice looking combination. (24483) |
| This is OEM, not
restored.
http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=837
Mike (24487) |
| Primer on SB? |
| I am derusting my
overhead drive for my SB and wanted to know if primer is recommended
before finish coat? What is the best match for the original SB
black? Was it flat or gloss? Who's paint has best resistance to
lubricants and oils? Anyone happen to know the original color for
the master-drive? Rick (25705) |
| I had an
acquaintance once that was a professional industrial painter. He
worked his life in various types of plants, painting behind the
millwrights and pipe fitters. He once said, "Less paint, More
primer". He would then explain that "less" could mean quantity or
quality. He further griped that the specifications he had to follow,
required a top quality paint, say, an oil based enamel for cast iron
or forged machine surfaces. The spec also required similar high end
quality in a primer. He claimed that, in his experience, if you
apply a good paint to a clean surface, properly coated (not too
thick per coat / not too thin) and allow it to cure under the
recommended conditions, primer is a waste of time and money. I use
Rustoleum spray paint for my "junkyard" welding projects. Since I am
less than fastidious in the cleaning / coating / curing process, I
usually use the "rusty metal primer" on black iron, followed by the
final color. I live in Southeast Texas, so whatever I do is going to
rust pretty quick if not careful. I just use thicker stock to allow
for the ravages of corrosion! ;-) I note that the SB 9A I am
cleaning up has a good amount of the original paint here and there.
It is ALL good old US Navy, Haze Grey! Being a former Marine, I MAY
paint mine OD Green ! Jerry (25706) |
| I used to repaint
blood-cell separators. The polyurethane isocyanate-catalyzed epoxies
we used [Lenmar and
Sherwin-Williams Polane-T] stuck to the steel just fine, bulletproof
stuff; after 24 hours even a beadblaster had a difficult time
with it, if rework was needed we stripped it back off with 40-grit
and LOTS of punctuation marks...but over any kind of primer they
never did cure completely and we'd end up stripping the entire
workpiece with a putty knife and lacquer thinner and redoing it. If
you use one of these paints, do NOT take the warning on the can
about proper ventilation, lightly. These paints are nasty, nasty,
nasty...and the side-effects last forever. I have used plain old
rattle-can Rustoleum on various motorcycle parts...properly baked,
it flows out like glass and is pretty tough stuff. Lurch . (25707) |
| A subject I know
something about.. Which shade of OD Green you thinking. WWII
lusterless, KoreanVietnam 24087 Semi-gloss or modern flat CARC
green? Check out rapcoparts in your area for Gillespie Paint,
considered the best in the military vehicle collector crowd for OD
paint. Rick (25708) |
| YeeHaa, somebody to
pester about info! Color-shade does not matter to me. Durability,
ease of application and how well/easy oil and chips wipe off without
damage, in THAT order is all I care about. You say "rapcoparts in
your area" ? Never heard of them. I HAVE heard of Gillespie paints,
howsomever. Thanks for the tip. All other details will be
appreciated. Old USMC saying: " If it ain't green, it ain't groovy"
;-) Jerry (25709) |
|
http://www.rapcopartscompany.com/paint.html
RAPCO Parts Company P.O. Box 191 Bowie, Texas 76230 Please phone us
Monday thru Thursday 9am - 4pm CST, or you may fax us anytime.
Phone: 940-872-2403 Fax: 940-872-3406 With UPS HazMat fees on paint
will probably be cheaper to pickup in person. You could use the
original Chemical Agent Resistive Coating (CARC) paint so your SB
could survive a chemical attack and be usable :-) but I hear its
real nasty stuff. Rick (25710) |
| I use urethane
alkyd gloss enamel from Benjamin Moore. Its resistant to solvents,
cheaper than Rustoleum and available locally. No epoxy fumes either.
Check out their website for recommendations for a primer. JP (25712) |
| Jerry, that's a
SeaBee with a light duty chit. Duane (25714) |
