Lathe - Paint



What paint to use?  (Feb 7, 2001) Part temperatures (May 13, 2003)
Paint colors on early models  (Jun 17, 2001) Powder Coating (Aug 4, 2003)
South Bend Paint Colors (Jun 20, 2001) Southbend colors (Sep 15, 2003)
Paint (Aug 1, 2001) Urethane Enamel (Oct 3, 2003)
Lathe color  (May 15, 2002) Painting the change gear plate? (Dec 9, 2003)
Paint questions & height problems (May 18, 2002) Paint help needed (Apr 5, 2004)
Painting and Bondo questions (Jun 14, 2002) Repainting 1945 SB 9" Model A (Apr 22, 2004)
Painting lathe (nickel plating) (Oct 1, 2002) Paint questions (May 8, 2004)
To paint or not to paint (Nov 13, 2002) Suggestions for paint? (Jun 17, 2004)
Lathe Paint (Feb 9, 2003) Paint (Aug 17, 2004)
Best paint for lathe (Apr 24, 2003) Paint specification (Nov 16, 2004)
SouthBend Paint code/formula (May 6, 2003) Best Paint EVER (Dec 5, 2004)
Powder coating and colors (May 12, 2003) Question on color (Jan 29, 2005)
Paint options (May 12, 2003) Primer on SB? (Mar 3, 2005)
What paint to use?
I need some recommendations on type/brand of paint to use on my 9" SB. I am going to take off the old stuff and am looking for good choice to repaint. Also is there a special primer I need? Do I need any primer? David (196)
I used a Tremclad Rust paint on bare metal. It works real good. You can see my lathe in some earlier postings. I took mine down to bare metal chemically first. Very happy and seams very durable. Tibbits also makes and industrial machine paint that works very well. Jim (197)
Paint colors on early models
I have started to strip the paint off my old 10" SB sn 1180. Under a coat of grey, a coat of red, and a coat of green is a layer of filler mixed in with black paint. I think that the factory paint was the black or the green. If anyone knows what color South Bend used for these early lathes and what the DuPont paint number crossovers are I would be very happy to here from them. Also, does anyone know what was used in with the black coat of paint as filler? Carl (886)
I was going to ask the same question. I have a 9" Jr. Catalog 22-YC, s/n 37819 which had several layers of paint applied to it, the top layer being a hideous lime green latex that had been applied by brush. After stripping a few components, I found layers of green, beige, red, grey, and black. I corresponded with Tony Griffiths of www.lathes.co.uk fame, and he indicated the early lathes were indeed black, and by around 1930 had switched to grey. I'd like to restore it as closely as possible to its original condition, but I'm not sure black would be my first choice. Mike (902)
I once owned a '32 or '33 9" Junior that had original, gray paint. Kim (906)
South Bend Paint Colors
All the South Bend's I've seen (made from the late thirties on up) were painted a gray-green color. This color would vary in the amount of green from year to year with the newer models being more gray. The last couple decades were just gray. Many moons ago, I had a Duron paint dealer match the color I had on the back of an NOS SBL faceplate and had him mix me a batch in their industrial "Duraclad" paint. This was a very good match for the early SBL's (late 30's to early 60's). This paint is offered in a catalyst formula but only in gallon quantities. "Duraclad" is also available in a non-catalyst form in quart quantities. Sherwin Williams also makes a excellent industrial catalyst baser paint. It is called "Polane" (I think). Actually, you would want Polane HS (High Solids) BUT this paint must be used with respirators and good ventilation. Webb (914)
Does anyone have any information on the original color of paint used on a 1940 model 10L. If so where might I find some. I sent an e-mail request to a lady at South Bend but she never answered me, funny how customer service has different meanings depending on which company you are dealing with. Larry (1246)
I don t know what the original color was but if it resembles the old gray Ford tractors TSC (Tractor Supply Company) has some of the best spraying paint I've ever used. It only comes in tractor colors plus black and white (to my knowledge) but it s an old fashioned enamel that thins with mineral spirits and lasts a long time. It s a lot easier to spray without runs than most paints, also comes in spray cans (which are great for touch up but don t cover as well as the regular enamel sprayed with a gun). It s only about $18 a gallon; MUCH cheaper than regular car type paint. We re in the Laundromat business and I've painted washer fronts and dryers with the International Harvester white which almost perfectly matches Maytag almond. Have also used the black on trailers, red on gumball machines, etc. I have even painted a truck with the IH white; looked pretty good. Bought a can of the Ford gray last week for my Bridgeport mill I m restoring. Their website is http://www.tractorsupplyco.com  and I think they have a store address listing on it. (1248)
Here is a trick Stan and Mike use at Strojny's Implement Co in Marshfield WI when they use the old gray tractor color to spray 9Ns and 8Ns. Stan says they fill the "std" spay cup up and add about 3/4" of lacquer thinner. Think you want to them pour out and mix thoroughly, or guess this prior to pouring into the cup. Yes I know it's a mineral spirit based paint, Stan claims it flows better and they get better results than just thinning with spirits. I have painted several tractors using the lacquer thinner and it comes out very nice. I have not tried it without the lacquer, so have no comparison. I have not painted my SouthBend nor gone over it and cleaned it yet, will some day do this, but the fact of the matter is my memory is etched with this lathe from High School and it always had many coats of machine gray on it. I cannot envision it look like a factory model, so I may very well finish it in "High School" style even when I clean it. That is scrape it down good, but not too good, because those HS students only did but so much scraping. Then paint it or better yet hire a couple HS students to drop by and do it. this will get the drips and runs and brush marks authentic looking. You younger guys may not appreciate this but its a reflection on the many great times I had in shop using the old SouthBends. big tom (1252)
This kind of reminds me of the paint jobs on the machinery at work, for years everything in the plant was kind of an olive puke green, now they have switched to baby blue, it really looks good considering they didn't clean the grease and oil off the presses first, now it's baby blue, green camo pattern. Long live Maytag! Matt (1253)
Lathe color
I recently bought a 1927(?) 16"X72" SB lathe. It has about ten coats of badly damaged paint (including the operating surfaces). Can anyone tell me the original factory color? At present it's a light pea green and rust. The paint is badly beat up and I believe I can see at least one coat of black and a darker green. The rusty parts are responding to kerosene and Scotchbrite. I took it mostly apart to move. Might just as well make it a little closer to original. Before I take the paint stripper to it, any landmines? Jerry (4231)
The paint is Machine Tool Gray. I got this from Ralph ?? at South Bend. When I called requesting some information about my newly acquired 9A I was told to speak to Ralph, no last name. The comment was, "everyone knows Ralph. He has been here over 40 years". He informed me the paint can be obtained from Sherman Williams, Kelly Moore, etc. I do not think you want to take paint stripper to it. If any imperfections were filled with anything (i.e. bondo) you will empty those depressions and fissures and have to fill them again. Fred (4232)
I use aircraft stripper for the large parts, and strip the pieces that will fit in a large pan or pot with hot TSP solution. I have been unhappy with the chip and stain resistance of Rustoleum paints, seems the formula changed several years ago. My neighbor just did his late 20's era SB15 with a modified urethane enamel from Davis, obtained from the local Duron dealer. Nice hard paint, chip resistant and no staining so far. The interior of my SB13 and his SB15 beds were painted with Krylon Rust Tough yellow (by brush from a can), this paint sets up hard and shiny and hasn't chipped or stained so far. You might be interested in the strip and paint sections of the lathe restoration found at: http://www.dimebank.com/FrankenLathe.html  POR15 is also a very tough paint, I may use it on the next repaint. The black filler used on these lathes is TOUGH! Sandblasting doesn't really touch it, so I smooth any rough spots with a wire cup wheel in a right angle grinder, fill any really rough areas with Bondo or spot putty, then prime. Sand between primer coats, then spot putty to the extent patience and your sense of aesthetics requires. The color coat is the easiest, provided you've created a good surface to flow it on. When you mask, get a box of 100 single edged razor blades. You'll dull them quickly as you trim the tape to give nice results, on a SB13x7 you probably go through 50 or 60 blades. Use good masking tape, not no-name stuff from the local dollar store. 90 percent of the finish quality occurs before the first coat of color is applied. (4233)
FYI- Most paint manufacturers have a "machine tool gray", but this is just a generic term, like "navy blue", or "pea green", and not a standard color. Paint of this color name varies quite a bit from brand to brand. On the other hand, they are all a medium-tone gray, so if you're just wondering whether to use gray or green or blue, then any company's "machine tool gray" will be close enough. I have machine tool gray from 3 different manufacturer's, and none of them are very close to the gray on my SBL lathe (which has clean original paint). Most off-the-shelf machine tool grays are much more bluish, whereas the SBL color has a more muddy tone. I talked to Joe at Plaza Machinery recently, and he said they have paint which they matched exactly to SBL gray (or got the formula from SBL, I forget) for repainting. I don't know if they sell it, but he might give you the formula. (4238)
If you are looking for machine gray and want an exact match it is real simple. I think even sears can do it but I know if you go to any reputable auto paint supply store they nearly all have a computer match machine. You simply take something off the old girl that is nice and new looking like a hidden undamaged or worn bolt head with good paint , They scan this part somehow in their computer machine and you tell them what type of paint that you want to use and they make you a quart or what you need. The cost isn't all that bad if you want the original color . It is amazing what they can do with computers even in paint stores. Jim (4241)
The paint Plaza Machinery sells is darker than what I have found at the True Value store. It is also a bit expensive, $8 a can if I remember right. I would prime and paint the machine with paint from the hardware store, then do the final coat with the stuff from Plaza if you go this route. Think about 2-3 cans. Maybe more. They do make a spray can that you can put regular paint into. If you went with a mixed paint from a hardware store. It gets pressurized, probably from a common hand pump. Then use as a regular spray can. Look at Eastwood Automotive Supplies. Tom (4263)
Paint questions & height problems
I'm getting ready to paint my Heavy 10" castings and need some advise. What's the best way to clean up the gears shafting ? Any reason I couldn't use a brass wire wheel on the grinder or just use a brush clean by hand ? Will using the buffer to polish the shafts cause any problems ? Everything was cleaned and primed with a self-etching primer and now I'd like to put some color back on it. If I can do this without buying a compressor paint set I sure would like to. Does anyone make a quality paint available in spray cans ? If buying mixing the paint is my only option I suppose I'd get one of HF's HVLP rigs. Anyone gone that route ? If I can though I'd like to just open the windows and paint it in place along with the cabinet. It was *so* difficult getting everything where it is now that I just cringe at the thought of moving it again. That's why I was thinking a HVLP setup would be best to use in place if spray cans aren't an option. The original SB Gray is just expensive when purchased thru them right ? Or is it a legally protected color like Michigan's State Police Blue ? It would be nice to have an original color but I just really want something that looks good. OK, those were my paint questions. Now it gets a little more complicated. When I got the lathe cleaned up for the first time the first thing I discovered was that the ways had been ground. The serial number at the end of the bed is gone without a trace. It' an early lathe with a single lever QC gear box. The headstock had a number of brass shims under each side and the tailstock was gone. I've picked up another tailstock but I need to figure out how to get it to the same height as the headstock. Just remove the shims ? It can't be that simple can it ? Dave(4243)
If you want the machine gray which I hate myself just run down to HD or whoever is handy and get some Krylon in light which is very close to SB or dark which was used on some of the early machines. JWE (4244)
I have been using the Krylon heavy duty spray paints and love them. The dark gray is MSCDirect Item # 02512291 and they have a light gray too (don't have the # handy). I tried their accupro brand paint and tried to save a few bucks and that stuff is real c%$p! It took weeks to get hard (probably could have baked it I know). The Krylon has been a much better product all around. www.mscdirect.com Bill (4245)
Painting and Bondo questions
My latest two questions concern finishing. I've completed two parts, namely the Upper Guard and the Thread Dial Frame, but I'm wondering if I finished them properly. I first removed all the grime and paint, mostly with paint stripper and "oil eater" solvent. I then cleaned them up with a wire brush wheel on the drill press. Next I primed them with a Plasti-Kote Industrial primer, then painted with a Plasti-Kote Machinery Gray spray paint. The paint looks nice, but the rough casting is still very, well, rough. Should I have put a coat of Bondo on everything first, then sanded, then painted? The original (several layers of) paint was so thick that I think it filled in most of the pits and grinder marks, but it's possible there was filler involved that may have been removed with the stripper. Also, I've read other posts talking about these fancy-sounding "industrial coatings.. blah blah" where some even take an oven to cure them. Is this necessary? Is my Plasti-Kote 3-coat paint job going to hold up or should I strip everything again and use a "professional" coating? I'm only 3 parts into my painting, so there's still time to change my technique. Jeff (4593)
I'm restoring a Heavy 10" a 9" Model A and recently painted the 10". I looked into the "industrial coatings" which are primarily 2-part epoxy type paints and didn't go that route. The paint and spray gear were too expensive. However I did cough up the bux at the PPG paint store for a quality zinc-based self etching primer. After that I took JWE's advise and bought some Krylon paint in spray cans at Wal-Mart. I stripped everything twice, first I boiled it all in a TSP solution and then went back and did everything a second time with a bath in chemical stripped. I didn't see anything that looked like bondo but who knows. I laid down probably 2 or 3 good coats of primer on everything and then 3 to 4 coats of Krylon on top of that. I got pretty good results. Attached are the before after paint pics. More pictures are in the group photo section in the Heavy 10" folder and the most of what I've done is up on my website. Dave (4598)
Dave, It looks nothing short of fantastic! I wish you were located in Southern California. I'd bribe you to come over and help me with my 9" model A. It works pretty good, but I've still got two shades of grubby gray and I'm not happy with either ;-). I like the idea of the cabinet below the lathe. My 9" has the cast iron legs and a full-length pedestal for the horizontal-drive motor. A lot of wasted space! I think I might look for a bench-mount motor pedestal and weld up a sturdy bench for drawers, etc. Thanks for sharing your work with the group. Very inspiring. Paul R. (4599)
I liked your WEB site and your pictures. I will be interested in hearing about the durability of the finish over time. I hope it will be good as I am using spray bomb a lot. With Krylon you get a wide range of colors. I have been using Hammarite smooth finish colors. Not too many colors available. You can also get any color made into a spray bomb at the auto paint store. I have heard for about $ 75 you get 3 spray cans. I have yet to try it. When you used steal wool your ways there might be an easier way. I use Oxalic acid on things like ways. It's sold as wood bleach in a powered form at the local hardware store. You mix up a paste and paint it on the ways. It dries to yellow like color and then you can take it off with steal wool. I usually use the 3M pads but it's the same result. Then you can polish it. Oxalic acid doesn't etch the metal like Naval Jelly which is hard to get a decent finish on after use. Anyway your Southbends look great. Yasmiin (4600)
The machines were filed with lead in those days. Nasty stuff so you want to get rid of it. I worry about lead dust some and find nice ways of disposing of the lead to be not as available as one would like. I have to drive about 25 miles to a toxic disposal site. I try to scrape what I can of in up and put in into a container for that some day trip to the disposal site. Yasmiin (4601)
Dave, Your machine looks great! It sounds like I'm headed in the right direction, except I'm curious about the surface finish of the parts. I've got maybe 2 or 3 coats on an aluminum casting (the upper guard over the rear headstock spindle) and the paint looks great, but you can still see every detail of the casting. I wonder, were the originals smooth? If so, the rough spots must have been filled with something - either a filler under the primer or just lots of paint. What about your finish? Do parts look rough or are they smooth? Jeff (4602)
Jeff, I attached several close-ups of the finish to give you an idea. The first pic actually has some primer showing thru and could use a couple more coats. I didn't go wild with it because when I got the lathe you'd have sworn the previous owner was a housepainter by trade, the paint was 1/8" thick in some places. Where the casting were very rough the surface is still pebbly. A couple more coats of paint would probably make a difference. If you apply several coats of a good primer that will get you started and then you could add several coats of color on top of that and your surface should come out pretty nice. It's not going to look like hand rubbed lacquer but I think you'll be happy with it. If you start with clean and bare castings you could probably go with several coats of primer and color without putting too much on there. Another thing you can do is spend some time cleaning up the castings themselves with fine sandpaper or even rubbing compound. If you can smooth out the castings themselves you'll need less paint to fill in the surface. I just cleaned everything up and applied the primer and paint, I wasn't going for the Myford look or anything, but some time spend sanding down the castings will yield impressive results ( note that the operative word there was *time* ). Overall my finish is pretty smooth but you can see places where it could have been better. Dave (4603)
Yasmiin, I use Hammertone colors for some of my other stuff and you're right a hammertone gray would have looked great on the machine. I was on a roll though and didn't want to spend the time or the money, it's close to $10 a can for the good hammertone colors and I can't get them locally so I have to order, wait pay shipping. Durability was my main concern also, the paint was recommended by several on the list so I figured I'd give it a shot. I'd hate to have to repaint it but if I did I'd go with a hammertone shade instead. I went to a PPG store specifically to inquire about getting the paint I wanted put into a spray can and they didn't do it. I have gotten automotive paints done that way before, I had several of my trucks painted and after the first one found that it was a good idea to have them take some paint from the batch that the truck was painted with and put it into spray cans for later on. The only part of the ways I used steel wool on was the very end where the serial number was supposed to be. For the bulk of the work I sprayed the ways with penetrating oil and then rubbed them down with a plastic scuff pad and then did it again with Eagle-one metal polishing cloth ( is that stuff cloth?). Once I had the oxidation off I left it alone. Dave (4604)
Paul, too bad you aren't closer, I'd trade. My machine originally came on a pedestal legs and I like the look better G because I came across it first. I'm getting ready to start painting the 9A soon. I got caught up in another project that's almost finished and then I'm going to start on the 9". I need to finish it anyways because I want to trade it for a shaper or another machine. Dave (4605)
Dave, WOW $ 10 per can? That's outrageous. I think I pay about $ 36 per case of 6. I don't get any mark off for buying a case but I end up using that much on a machine sometimes and I hate running out esp. with that all coats need be applied within 30 minutes of one another deal. Also I have had at least one color disappear on me part way through. I work on more than one machine at a time. I seem to be always waiting to find some piece. I have a Schaublin 70 in two shades of green right now. I am wondering if these colors will be affected by things like cutting fluids or what ever. I guess time will tell. I know the Hammarite Black has lasted on the wheels of my van for a year now and they still look good. Yasmiin (4606)
Just a quick update. I put my part back in my "spray booth" (a cardboard box with a fan and furnace filters behind it) and gave it a heavy coat of paint. That seemed to do the trick. You can still see some casting detail, but it's much less obvious. I guess the trick is to use a bunch of paint (gotta get some more of the same batch) or to smooth the casting from the get go. At $6 per can, I think I'm going to go with the heavy paint. I'll be posting pictures pretty soon - I'm currently using Yahoo's web service to view/post to this group, so I can't attach files. I'll try via e-mail and send some along. Jeff (4616)
I just had to reply to the thing about the lead , I'm a keen shooter and bullet caster , now there is a lot of bad information about lead but the fact is the best way to get lead poisoning is to walk down the street , air borne lead from auto exhaust is the best way to pick up lead in the body other than to suck on a lead fishing sinker like it was a boiled lolly, I've been bullet casting for about 14 or so years [ I cast on a weekly basis so I'm handling it a lot ] and get checked for lead every year and am always well below what is considered normal levels of lead in the blood , but what I wanted to say is if anyone wants to get rid of lead the best and easiest way is to contact the closest shooting range and tell them that you have lead to give away and they can usually put you in contact with some bullet casters who will come around and pick it up as long as there is enough to warrant the trip . David (4617)
Well a thin coat of bondo will do the job. That's what the manufactures do. Yasmiin (4619)
What I call lead is a putty that has a heavy lead concentration. As to lead poisoning, the problem is the dust which is created when sanding some of these parts that haven t been stripped. I am trying to build a down draft table to collect the dust. The other is the lead in my dip tank. There I am trying to put in a filter and pump. It still leaves me with a disposal problem. (4620)
Dave, when you first displayed the first picture a while back I wondered just how you would do it. I would have walked after seeing it if it were me. What a fantastic after picture. Is it even the same lathe? Got the CD last week, works great. Ben (4624)
Yes , now I understand , and you are right , airborne lead is the easiest way to ingest lead , on the cast bullet forum some time back some one was saying about taking Vitamin C to fix high lead levels in the blood stream , don't know if it works or not but may be worth trying as a safeguard in the mean time , after all it can't hurt . I understand that some states in the US have rather extreme laws regarding the disposal of lead , is your state one of them ? David (4626)
Ben, I would have walked too if I'd seen it before buying it I figured I could take the loss and start looking for another or just consider it the price of tuition and start learning. The help and suggestions offered by the group made all the difference. I'm trying to get my website admin to post the updates on the Heavy 10" and some other projects as well. Glad you got the CD, I hope you can find something on there that interests you. I'm going to start on a couple projects from the disk soon, specifically a couple of the steam engines. I'm about 1/2 finished with Vol. II. Dave (4632)
Yes we do have strict laws in Washington state but the Federal laws also apply. Dumping lead in any state would bring the EPA down on you at some point. I am a business even though I keep more machines than I sell. As such, I am subject to inspection at the city level. I do know the EPA was out here years ago and supposedly said the place was so contaminated from a furniture stripping business that the owner couldn't have employees in the building. I am in the process of covering the floor and insulating the walls both to save on utility bills and to seal in the possible contamination. Yasmiin (4633)
Painting lathe (nickel plating)
I would like to get opinions on painting the SB 9" would I want to paint the wheels and handles? The lathes that I have, if the wheels and handles were ever painted it is all wore off. Do you guys paint them? Any body got any pics of their painted lathes I could take a look at? Clint (6515)
Just an opinion but don t paint the handles. This is despairingly called the fuller brush pint job. Instead polish them up nice as this is the way they came from the factory. This is of course the part where the hand touches. The shaft of the handle would be painted. You can tell the difference as the casting won t be smooth where you paint. You can also wax them or spray them with dry lube if you have a damp environment where corrosion / flash rust would be an issue. Yasmiin (6517)
I never paint them - I love the smooth metal feel during use. And the way they look but that's just personal. Frank (6518)
Clint, Take a look in the Photos section in the "Heavy 10 restoration" folder I have pics there of the Heavy 10" that I have. I'll also try to put up some pics of the 9" that I also stripped and refinished. Dave (6523)
Yasmiin OK, I kind of thought that, I think that I might chrome plate the handles, what would be the opinion on that? I have a plating hobby shop What other parts do you think would enhance the lathe by plating? Clint (6524)
I would nickel plate, as South Bend did. Neil (6525)
I would be all for plating them. As the other post says nickel was the plating choice of the period but I would use chrome today. You can plate with nickel if you want to be exactly correct but chrome may be easier to get done and a good chrome plate will endure longer and not oxidize like nickel does. Polished nickel and chrome have very similar appearances. I have trouble finding such things as nickel plated screws and I often substitute SS or chrome plated ones. I also use chrome plated handles that are available from tool suppliers like Ried when I can t find an original. I find the result to be very satisfactory if perhaps not historically correct. Yasmiin (6532)
Other parts to plate? I find that there are a few that might look nice like other small handles, cover plates, etc. However, we don t want the machine to look like a 57 Chevy so I wouldn't get too carried away. Yasmiin (6533)
Yasmiin You may be a little confused. Chrome is a protective coating for nickel, when you see a chrome plated part it is nickel with a chrome finish. Sort of like clear coat on paint. When you nickel plate something you can leave as is, like guitar trim, etc. in the case of bumpers, auto trim, etc. the nickel gets chrome to protect them from the elements Clint (6537)
Yep I stuck my foot in that one. I had never asked for nickel but I see that is is a step in the plating process. In any event I like chrome and I see no reason why any but the purist would have problems with using it. But then I have about 15 1890 1940 instrument lathes and I just can t see repainting them all grey, how boring. Someday I will be labeled as the restorer with extremely bad taste. Yep, I am going too get my purple paint and go do a Monarch 10-EE in burgundy, Yasmiin (6538)
Just a word of caution about nickel-plating knobs and wheels - some people develop contact dermatitis and become very sensitive to nickel. Frank (6539)
Yasmiin I like your suggestion on the nickel/chrome plated handles, I have a friend that did that and it looks extremely good, some of the more modern as well as the AA lathes had chrome handles. I think that is what I am going to do. I want them sharp looking as well working well. Clint (6545)
Frank Yes, this is true some people have allergic reactions to nickel. I think that this maybe due to the different types of nickel plate, chems. used, etc. not sure. however, I have not had any signs of this problem as I plate with nickel and am around it regularly, I will more than likely chrome plate it anyway because of it getting used all the time, and the nickel just being a plate, and the chrome will be a strong protective covering, I might even test using the hard chrome covering ( same as used on crankshafts, other shafts) on one to see how that looks. It will be an interesting project by at the least. Clint (6546)
Clint, I ill look forward seeing to a picture. Yasmiin  (6550)
I kind of like True or Royal Blue myself. JWE (6554)
I almost like that better than the Old Ford Blue I am using on one, I was planning on doing the 2nd in hammered gray, but now you have my wheels a turning. What shade Red is that, is it Just Red? Clint (6561)
JW I got some of the old Ford blue and started painting lathe # 1 with it, I will take a picture of some of the pieces I have already painted and show them. I will also do a piece in hammered gray color I got from Home Depot and show it. It is a lighter colored gray than what I have been seeing. Clint (6562)
Better yet, look at this group's homepage folder. I have pics there of the Heavy 10" that I have. I'll also try to put up some pics of the 9" that I also stripped and refinished. despairingly called the fuller brush pint job. Instead polish them up nice as this is the way they came from the factory. This is of course the part where the hand touches. The shaft of the handle would be painted. You can tell the difference as the casting won't be smooth where you paint. You can also wax them or spray them with dry lube if you have a damp environment where corrosion / flash rust would be an issue. to paint the wheels and handles? The lathes that I have, if the wheels and handles were ever painted it is all wore off. Do you guys paint them? (6584)
To paint or not to paint
I have a 1949 SBL A 1947 and a whole shop full of old Beaver, Rockwell, Stanley and others. I never have painted one of them. I love the old patina that develops over the years. As I sit running my old lathe I see where others before me have rested there arms over the guard and it is worn the paint down to the steel. Real eye candy and stimulates the imagination. I may be wrong but to me this all just adds to the character of the machine. My chum, (who sandblasts and paints everything) says I'm nuts but I just can't help the feeling I get out of running my hands over a nice old well worn machine. (7218)
I would have to agree as long as the paint on it is decent, if it is a lousy repaint, I would have to sand blast and paint. Scott (7226)
Once I got all the old oil varnishy scum off mine the paint was gone too so it's problematic. "Wipe it down with oil and leave it be" works for me. (7228)
I agree 100 percent, I have a 100 year old lathe of unknown origin that is now painted with 30 wt turbine oil. The old iron has a character to it that is only found in those old machines. To cover it up would be a crime. My 1942 workshop lathe has most of the paint that SBL put on it but there are also these worn spots which will remain so as long as the machine is in my possession. Removing the heavy layers of paint from old machines is a messy job, but its worth it. If you find a machine with just factory paint on it, cover the worn spots with 30wt and admire it. I keep a rag saturated with 30wt oil in a coffee can to use on all my tools. Unless you are in a very bad climate this is all you need to prevent rust. Even with paint you still need the 30wt to protect the unpainted parts, so mop the whole thing with 30wt and enjoy. RC (7231)
Does any one ever produce any items with these well painted machines. Phil (7245)
Phil; Whenever I can get into the shop! Mostly repair parts and specialty tools for obsolete tractors, old cars (which these days seems to mean anything made more than 10 years ago!), and outdoor power equipment. Add in assorted tooling, a couple of steam engines, working on a hit and miss, parts for other machines, and just general "need something to fix... sorts of stuff. There's usually a bit of swarf and oil around, in spite of the paint jobs :-) But then I enjoy the restoration process and like a nice paint job. All comes down to taste. I use my surface grinder that hasn't been torn down for a repaint, although to my eyes it needs a nice paint job. Maybe in the spring. Then again, by the time an old machine gets to my shop, someone has usually done a lousy repaint on it, so it looks worse than a nice old machine mostly in original paint! Stan (7257)
I guess they are able to produce but it's like my chum who gets me to do most of his machining as he is too busy painting his lathe and all the rest of his tools. Can't blame him though as I imagine the flying swarf landing on fresh paint is bad for the PR. This chum has $$$ to burn and a big beautiful shop. It's just loaded with old tools and machines that all have several coats of ( pretty ) paint. Our old farm museum in town here is just the opposite. They have standing orders. NO PAINT. Wonder why that is? (7263)
The gently worn old machine with the lovely patina, Fine, beautiful, leave it alone. The old machine that was abused, neglected and repainted with a brush by some teenager without any appreciation for the work. A shitty paintjob, who could live with that? One of the pieces of literature for South Bend admonishes the operator or owner to keep the machine cleaned and looking nice because then others using the machine would treat it as a better piece of equipment than they would an old ugly, poorly maintained machine. By the way Phil, I Use hell out of my machines !! Just have a couple weeks breathing room here and am repainting an old ugly as hell lathe that was just as likely to have ended up in the scrapyard if I hadn't got it. I doubt that anybody with any self-respect would have left this machine in it's as found condition. Alphawolf45 (7274)
Lathe Paint
Still searching for the paint source for the original puke green lathe paint. The author of a lathe restoration site reported a fellow told him it was either Pittsburgh or Fuller O'Brien Light Grey Machine Enamel. Can any members out there confirm that? Al (9190)
SB paints tended to wander a bit in shade over the years. If you want a traditional "machine grey" that has a touch of green/blue to it, see if any of the local paint stores can get Blue Ridge Industrial Coatings Machine Grey. The local ACE in Front Royal, VA has some of their stuff, I think they are a regional maker, but you might get lucky. Have you called LaBlond and asked for the Sherwin Williams paint number that matches? I think SB got their paint from SW and Pittsburg over the years, maybe I'm not remembering correctly. If you have a color card that is what you want, the local Duron dealer should be able to mix a batch of modified urethane enamel to match. Just use the Duron or Parks red oxide primer, NOT the white primer from the Duron modified alkyd enamel family. The white is available in an acrylic or an oil base, both don't built very well, nor do they seem to give the strong chip resistant finish that these paints give when used over the red oxide primer. Stan (9192)
Best paint for lathe
Restoring a Southbend 9: lathe and would like to know the best paint to use that will hold up the best for me. Bill (10393)
I like the tractor enamel TSC (Tractor Supply) sells; it s a plain old fashioned enamel that only comes in black, white standard tractor colors. I've always used the Ford gray on my machines but may get wild use Ford blue on my new to me Lagun mill. Sprays real nice without runs, etc., seems to hold up well, thins cleans up with plain old mineral spirits, sells for about $20 a gallon with spray cans available in matching colors to touch up the inevitable dings that come along. Just fits my 60 year old state of mind! Lew (10395)
I used Old Ford Blue on one and the new Ford Blue on another lathe On another SB I used Hammered Dark gray from Home Depot. Clint (10408)
Some weeks back there was a pic posted of a virtually new "old" model A in original paint. I don't know how well that had reproduced in a photograph, but I printed it and touted that round local paint suppliers until I got a very close match. This was a make (American origin I believe) called "SPRAYCOTE" and the color was Willow. Len (10409)
GREEN!! Sorry about that but I can't stand machinery grey, everything gets painted leaf green. I've been using standard Krylon spray cans, it looks good but doesn't stand up very well. A catalyzed enamel or urethane from an auto parts store would probably hold up better, but they are expensive. The trick solution would be to have the parts powder coated, that should stand up to about anything. Jeff (10411)
Southbend Paint code/formula
Eric, Would you be kind enough to post the SouthBend paint code/formula for Benjamin Moore Industrial Coatings. I'm assuming this is a grayish green color. I'm sure a number of us would like to have this info. Al (10819)
First a clarification on the color. I called Rose at SB/Leblond and asked her if she knew any paint color formulas historically used on these lathes. She stated the lathes were painted either gray or green. Upon dismantling and cleaning my SB 9, I am certain the paint color on mine is original. As far as I know, this is the color they used at the factory on the day mine was painted. It may not match other models. I took a part to my local Benjamin Moore paint dealer and the put the part under a color analyzer, and the following is a dead match to my color. The paint is Benjamin Moore Urethane Alkyd Industrial Enamel tinted as follows: M22-3B + OY-4, BK-28, BB-2, GY-4, WH-1X Per Quart. It really looks like battleship grey to me. I'm not sure, but you may be able to spray this paint on, thinning it and using a gun. Last night I pre-brushed a very light coat of mineral spirits onto the compound casting and then flowed a coat of paint with a brush. The mineral spirits helps the paint flow and eliminates brush marks. It takes a little practice. This morning when I went out to the shop the piece looked like a factory finish. The threading dial on mine is a different color than the rest of the lathe, It is more of a greenish grey color as Al mentioned. This possibly may be the greener color Rose spoke of. I have this formula as well and will post it in the morning. A quart of this paint runs in the 7-8 dollar range and should be enough to do an entire machine. Eric (10823)
About spraying industrial finishes. If anyone here has ever use frazee aeroplate then you will know the viscosity I'm talking about. It is about the same as un thinned house paint. Kinda thick to be spraying but it can be done you just need to use a spray gun wit a large orifice size. I won't get detailed here because all paint guns have differing tip numbers but get one from your supplier that will spray the thick stuff and you'll have little to no problems. you can use the stuff straight out of the can or if need be thin 50/50 with the recommended thinner for the brand of paint you use. Most oil base paints like mineral spirits. Kerry (10835)
Al: I'm sure there is a lot of good paint that could be mixed to the South Bend color, but you aren't likely to get it at your local paint store. I HIGHLY recommend the paint that South Bend sells, already mixed to the proper color. This stuff is amazing -- it flows on well with a brush (as long as temperature and humidity are not too high), and it covers like no other paint I have used. It also dries hard and resistant to oils, which are the characteristics you are not likely to find in off-the-shelf enamel. As a matter of fact, I am using South Bend's paint right now on a Rivett lathe, and I like it so well I am going to order more today. Kim (10847)
Kim Is the paint SB (or now LeBlond) currently sells the older green-grey, or the newer "mostly grey" color? I have a 1957 with original paint which I believe to be the green-grey (I am red-green color blind), and I would like a small can of touch-up paint which flows out nicely when brushed on. If you are (or were) matching paint on a SB with original paint, could I ask the vintage? How bad (in price) is the smallest can SB sells? Frank (10874)
Frank: It is a rather dark gray. As it happens, my South Bend is 1957 vintage, also, and this color matched the original perfectly. Maybe they used two colors. The paint is about $21 for a quart. Rather pricey, but the stuff covers amazingly well. I have put two coats on a lathe and cabinet and still had paint left over from a quart can. Also did a full-size milling machine from primed bare metal with less than one quart. One coat will cover a similar colored paint base; two will cover anything you have. Kim Steiner grey, or the newer "mostly grey" color? I have a 1957 with original paint which I believe to be the green-grey (I am red-green color blind), and I would like a small can of touch-up paint which flows out nicely when brushed on. If you are (or were) matching paint on a SB with original paint, could I ask the vintage? How bad (in price) is the smallest can SB sells? (10895)
Kim, 20 dollars a quart, that's 80 dollars a gallon! If someone who has the exact paint and will paint a 4" x4" flat piece of metal with it....let it dry and them take it to a Sherwin Williams store they will read it with a computer scanner which will tell them exactly what the formula is for the type of coating one wants it in. Get an exact match Name the color whatever you want then Every S W store in the country can mix it. An Oil base Industrial Enamel usually sells for around 25 dollars a gallon and they do sell quarts and if that sounds like too much trouble if you would send me a sample The next time I am at SW I will be glad to have the color read and Then we will have it. Mike (10906)
Kim, I have a 1959. I like what I'm reading regarding the SB paint. What is the best method to degrease/clean the parts prior to paint? Matt (10918)
Yes, I know the local paint store can do that. I've been there and done it . . . and been disappointed with a painted surface that does not hold up well to normal machine wear, oils, and solvents. Again, I am not saying that there are not other suitable paints, but after several trials and errors I am now using South Bend paint for all my machines – even though I would sometimes prefer a different color than battleship gray. After spending dozens of hours reducing a machine to its smallest parts, cleaning, degreasing, replacing bearings, rewiring controls, masking, priming, and painting, the $10- 20 cost per machine of good paint is an absolutely inconsequential consideration. If you want to do touch-up, then take a small part down to Sherwin-Williams and have them match it. But if you are really doing restoration, then I suggest getting a professional's advice on paint formulation (not color) for the intended use. Or just do as I do and buy with confidence from good old South Bend (and I have no connection with the company). As far as cost, I might add that I have been having a professional do the painting on the old cast iron fans that I restore as a hobby, and the cost of that paint is $31.45 per PINT! Apparently, good paint costs good money. Kim (10927)
Matt: I use a variety of methods depending on practicality. For the milling machine I did in the middle of winter last year, my only alternative was to wipe and rinse it down repeatedly with mineral spirits. I followed that with a couple of liberal wipes with acetone (with a face mask on), and the paint seemed to stick well. I often use Simple Green, especially for small parts in my ultrasonic cleaner. But for big stuff, if you can get outside with a hose, nothing beats a scrub brush and tri-sodium phosphate (TSP), available in powder form at hardware stores. It is amazing how TSP can take grease off and leave a paintable surface with no further preparation. Kim (10929)
Matt, I use mineral spirits and a Scotchbrite pad or a sponge with a Scotchbrite pad on one side, like you can buy at Walmart. On really caked on grease use mineral spirits and a brass brush. After everything is clean, I blow dry all the parts with compressed air, and do a second wipe down with mineral spirits. On rusty stuff, you can use naval jelly with the brass brush, or WD40 + brush. Don't leave the naval jelly on for too long as it can turn machined cast iron black. Eric (10932)
Kim, I think my intention was lost in the transmission. For starters lets not assume that because the paint is expensive that it is better .Secondly Sherwin Williams is a multinational company which after reading the formula for color could and will mix an exact match. After the formula is obtained anyone wishing a quart or gallon would be only as far as their local SW store for a fresh quart . I was educated as a Chemist and have been a Painting Contractor for the last 25 years. Mike (10946)
After talking up South Bend paint for the past couple of days, I have to pull back some. I just received my new can today from South Bend, and it is different. At least it smells different, and it came in a different can (Sherwin-Williams, no less). Not only that, but the tint is slightly different (lighter gray), and just when I am in the middle of painting my Rivett! All bets are off until I learn about this stuff over the next few weeks. Kim (10956)
Kim, Like I said in my original response Oil base paints are being phased out even for industrial applications. The new VOC laws are changing the paint industry. (10958)
I have an airplane and have repainted various sections using various types of coatings. Folks, let me assure you that the prices that the various manufacturers ask for their products, like South Bend, are extraordinarily reasonable compared to any aircraft certified part (close tolerance prop bolts-nineteen bucks apiece-and you need six; 2 aircraft spark plugs per cylinder at fifteen to eighteen dollars each) and turbine parts are higher by several multiples. Paint, like Dupont Imron, will cost you several hundred dollars per gallon of paint, activator, and the appropriate additives; my airline employer will use up to a couple of hundred pounds per airplane getting that pretty corporate paint scheme on. I know everybody's financial situation is different, and part of the fun is matching the paint on the bottom of a sixty year old carriage at your local DuPont, PPG, or Sherwin Williams supplier, but if you ask me, too, the price that SB wants for their paint seems more than reasonable. By the way, the two part paints that you see on show cars and custom choppers at the auto show-the kind that looks say green from one angle and blue from another-can set you back up to FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS a unit, which is a gallon of color and usually a gallon of activator. Bill (10965)
This last can of paint from South Bend is still oil-based. It just doesn't smell like the stuff I had gotten from them before, which had an odor quite unlike most enamels. Kim (10973)
William, I know that some of the High Tech coatings can be quite pricey (Epoxy etc.) but, what we are talking here is Industrial Enamels and like I said South Bend does not make their own Paint and if "we" could get the mixing formula SW or any national paint company could mix it as needed without sending to Lebond and waiting. Mike (10975)
Kim, The smell is probably due to a change in the vehicle (Solvent used )It originally probably had Xylene or M.E.K. wicked smelling but, dried fast. (10976)
If you can boil them in lye that will get just about every bit of grease off the parts. Kerry (10977)
Bill had mentioned the high cost of good paint and he's right the figures he give for Imeron are on the ball and any photochromic colors are beyond most peoples budgets. and this is just the paint then you need someone who know what the hell there doing to achieve the top results with the top quality paint. But not to hammer any one we are talking a machine tool here that gets greasy and dirty with metal and other materials all over it in the form of chips. So in my experience Frazee areo plate is a top notch finish for machine tool's. A lot of the machine tool I painted six to eight years ago are just now showing signs of wear. If you are in and are that has a Home Depot they have Areoplate on the shelf for around $15.00 per gallon and will mix it to any color. It is not the best but it will cover a machine, it sticks well with little prep work, and it lasts the best thing is you don't need to know much about paint to use this stuff. If you've painted your house inside or out then you can paint with this stuff. it's ready to use out of the can to brush or roll or if you have a spay gun that will shoot thick paint then go for it other wise you will need to thin it with mineral spirits to allow it to shoot from spray guns that only handle auto type finishes. other then that there are no additives like activator, hardener, clear coats, special thinners. All I'm saying is get as close to the color you want as you can get and get the best paint you can. Oh and it works great on the bottom of boats that will be stored on a trailer (nothing replaces antifouling bottom paint) I painted my 16FT aluminum skiff about five years ago and the paint is still on it no signs of blistering and the only places it has come off is where I forced it off by hitting something... Rocks, docks, missed the trailer up over the fender, beaching it so the wife can use the head. can you tell I like the stuff. there's nothing like finding a product that work so well on so many different things and cheep too. Kerry (10979)
One question that pops into my mind is why not powder coat ? getting the color is not that hard, and the finished product is VERY hard. are there problems heating (baking) the metals when drying (cooking, sealing??) the paint ?  (10986)
Boil them in Lye!! Man alive....Be careful !!Lye will dehydrate the hell out of skin (dissolve) blind you and the fumes are toxic. There are just too many better cleaners on the market to chance that. Mike (10987)
My understanding is that SB merely put out a bid for paint from the various suppliers every year or so when they needed restocking for production, and the winning bid was the official SB paint until they put out another one. Only in the last few years or decade would I assume that a new company's formula would be easily matched to some standard, and I imagine in the thirties to the fifties it would be not a big deal to be off several shades. I imagine that a person going down to their industrial supplier to computer match a sliver of undamaged paint on their old lathe could hit that shade perfectly, something the entire coatings industry couldn't do at that time! Bill (10988)
Kerry, I can't agree more. I've shot Imron twice and I will never do it again, unless I have a remote air supply. These paints are isocyanates and they will kill you with their fumes. A lathe can be beautifully and I mean beautifully, painted with a brush. Bill  (10989)
And taking an undamaged sliver of paint from a (say) 1950 lathe takes no account of fade, or chemical damage from lubricant suds, and maybe even cleaning solvent effects, over a number of years. Old paint seen today, even from an 'underneath' or hidden area, is hardly likely to be the shade as originally applied. Even a boxed example, that never saw the light of day until the present, would likely have seen chemical aging and slight color change, particularly if the the paint base were organic, eg, linseed oil. I used a photo that was posted here a few months ago, of an oldish unsold lathe, to get a color match to paint my own, but only as something to identify with, rather than in the knowledge of an authentic match. Most of my working life has been spent as a carriage builder/restorer and wheelwright, and I've seen old paint from all sorts of trapped and concealed areas and seen it vary enormously on the same vehicle. It just cannot be relied on. Be happy with what suits you and your perceptions of how it might have been. Len (10990)
I didn't think my original post about the color of my SB-9 was going to raise such conversation. As far as I am concerned, I am fussy and want to be just as authentic as the next guy. Really, who cares about weather the paint is an "exact match" or is the finish as good as a custom motor cycle paint job like you would see on American Chopper (Discovery Channel)? These lathes are tools that when purchased and used in machine shops, the user didn't care what the darn thing looked like. And if I put my self at the South Bend assembly plant in 1946, and I'm in charge of painting, the can of paint I use today isn't going to match the can I am going to used next week, It is 1946 after all. On the bottom of the bed on my 1947 SB-9 there are paint drips all along the bottom. Bringing an old machine back to factory specs is not a science. The paint finish was not that great to start with, and no special paint was probably used, just oil based enamel, and it was probably slapped on with a brush. The bottom line is we all own South Bends because they are well made, heavy, precision machines, better than what we can buy today. Eric (10994)
Yep boil them in LYE!!! you think that stainless steel your machining is any safer or what about the fumes from cutting oils. It will work just don't use to much in the water and be careful. But you are right there is a bunch of stuff out there that will get the metal clean. But I like chemically clean on an old machine that has had years to soak up oil. (10999)
Ah yes But I do care what it looks like I won't use a machine unless it's gray, Machine gray. No green just gray. Any shade will do but these are my personal choices Bridgeport gray, South bend gray, Hardinge gray, Colechester gray, Brown and Sharp gray, Lagun, Gorton, Cincinnati, and my all time favorite BATTLE SHIP GRAY. Kerry (11000)
Caustic soda , sodium hydroxide, lye, whatever you want to call it, IS safe, provided that safe practices are used. Info on those is all over the web, and easily got. Stripping of old pine furniture etc in large tanks of weak cold caustic soda solution, followed by fresh water soaking and then air drying, is a common practice in the antique trade here in the UK. I used it a lot in my time in the carriage trade, for steel and iron parts as well as timber. It certainly does shift embedded oils in metal. I found it unsuitable for hardwood dipping. But, for general degreasing prior to painting, don't you chaps over the pond have "Gunk"? That's a commonly available solution here in UK, used in the auto trade, for engine degreasing etc, which works very well and is water rinsed. Len (11003)
Kerry, do you, drive a Gray Car? Just curious. There are a lot more choices now than 50 years ago. In some ways, less choice. Not a bad thing, either. I don't want a leaded paint, and can avoid that now. There are epoxies, two part paints, powder coating, and lots of other choices. It seems that the group could come to a general consensus - and a general set of choices. Does not have to be just one choice, mind you. We all experiment. Some have even argued to "leave the natural patina" be. I have a SB 16" I want to work on in June - and have not heard a consensus answer. Dave Audette's web site and his actual work on a Heavy 10 influenced me as to a practical way of doing things... but what do other people think? Seems like some UK types ought to mumble their thoughts here. I find some of their sites and work amazing. Clockmakers and old equipment restorers have produced some mind boggling work. So how do I and what color do I paint my poor SB 16"? My daughter thinks Corvette Yellow (powder coat) - as a two part paint solution. I like Gray, when done well. But it is color and technology.. Jerry Robinson FYI... I don't think that when the SouthBend staff was making paint decisions in 1943 that they were thinking about their machines being such prized and useful items 50+ years later. But may be we all think that way now.... so If I want this to be in good shape for 50 or 100 years from now, then what is the right choice today? It is more than a shade of Gray. Let's do this right. (11004)
Anyone suspecting that the OEM paint is lead-pigmented? This can explain the shift in colors as the machines age. Titanium dioxide pigments do not shift, like the old lead carbonates, in the presence of sulfur. Funny story from the PVC Industry: In the early '60's some lead pigments were still in use in plastics. The real reason lead was hastily abandoned was not environmental: Light-colored drivers' seats in cars were infamous for demonstrating the old sulfide test for lead. "Driver Exhaust" would in the course of time leave dark permanent stains in the upholstery in the center of the seat. (I worked at Tenneco Chemicals at the time.) So one wonders if the colors that are being matched would be different in a machine whose life did not include Sul-Flo cutting oils, etc. (11005)
Actually no so I guess I will use a machine that's not gray. Opps. Powder coating would be fine and is one of the most durable and best looking forms of paint out there I just don't have that kind of cash. And no place to DIY Kerry paint, other a find equipment solution. being 50 but of cycle along and own on sentences. (11014)
If there is a local metal group where you are at, it might not cost so much. HF has these $70 kits - and paint is out there lots of places not that expensive, it seems. I don't have a lot of know how here, but it seems you could piece together every thing needed for about $100 - and the help of some friends. Don't have to invent or buy everything yourself, either. There might be others willing to split cost - could be they want to do this too. I do things at weird times and want stuff for the long term - only reason I bought some my own powder coat tools. I have some car parts needing painting, so know there is a lot work ahead for me. Jerry (11022)
Kim- Let me see if I can explain away some of the difference. South Bend Lathe bought the gray enamel in large quantities, obviously to paint machines with and sell to customers. LeBlond buys the same paint but it comes in small prepackage cans. We use the same Sherwin Williams part number but we buy it from a different vendor. I will guess that is why you are noticing a difference. I cannot talk about the smell since I have never bothered to smell any. Sorry if this has caused problems for you. It is not our intent to change from what South Bend offered. Please let me know if I can be of any assistance. Rose Marvin (11099)
Rose: Thank you for responding. If you are saying that you are selling the same formulation of paint that I purchased a years ago, then I am glad to hear it. My impression upon opening my new can was tentative, and my nose is certainly fallible after 30 years of smoking, but I felt an obligation to send up a caution after telling everyone how good your stuff was. Frankly, even if your paint was no better than off-the-shelf enamel at the local paint store, I would still be inclined to patronize South Bend/LeBlond because you are a valuable resource to those of us with "recycled" South Bends, and I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP YOU IN BUSINESS. For the same reason, I tend to buy from our locally owned, independent hardware store rather than Lowe's and Wal-Mart. Kim (11139)
Powder coating and colors
Anybody think about powder coating their units? Dave IS safe, provided that safe practices are used. Info on those is all over the web, and easily got. Stripping of old pine furniture etc in large tanks of weak cold caustic soda solution, followed by fresh water soaking and then air drying, is a common practice in the antique trade here in the UK. I used it a lot in my time in the carriage trade, for steel and iron parts as well as timber. It certainly does shift embedded oils in metal. I found it unsuitable for hardwood dipping. the pond have "Gunk"? That's a commonly available solution here in UK, used in the auto trade, for engine degreasing etc, which works very well and is water rinsed. (11026)
Regarding colors, WoodDragon pained his 9" wild sci fi colors and it looks great. Unfortunately, his site is under revision so the pic is not available. If you really wanted to stay SB Gray, I would bet you can get the colors matched.. My question is on baking all the parts. how hot do you need to get the paint ? Dave (11027)
Dave. I don't see what the big deal is about paint. I used Rustoleum Smoke Gray and IT matched the paint on my SB9C perfectly. I wasn't about to spend big bucks just to match factory paint. As long as the paint looks good and holds up who cares what brand or color is used? I too am one of those people that believe all machines should be painted gray. It just looks nicer in a shop when everything matches. Bill C. (11028)
I am not trying to restore a machine back to factory specs. There are mods that I think make it a tool, not a piece of history. there are others who find great satisfaction in 'factory fresh' condition. big dials poly vee belts QC tool post VSD DRO Quick clamp tailstock these are on my mods list. paint color does not have to match for me, and I found that there are some nice (grey) powder colors available. When the chips start polishing the carriage I enjoy the cleaning effect but know that it would remove most paints. I don't have that happen often, but on a finish cut, I just wait until the cut is done. Dave (11033)
Dave. That's why I chose to use the Rustoleum because it is fairly inexpensive and when some of the paint gets chipped I just touch it up a bit. Now if I were to just have the lathe setting as a show piece I would then get the factory finish as close as possible. I realize there are individuals that are sticklers when it comes to getting something looking like the original. It's each individuals choice. Bill C. (11034)
I have 2 lathes, an A and a C the C is in pretty good shape and the A has suffered thru at least 2 paint jobs. being an old gov't lathe, it was subjected to the if it don't move, paint it attitude. Needless to say, I plan on a new paint job. I'm leaning towards power coat as it give me an excuse to get the tools. : ) color is another matter. not sure what that will be. probably the handles/levers will be Red or something, moving parts one color and safety parts another. Then the rest some colors that make it look cool. Dave (11038)
Thinking about breaking tradition myself (in my old age; older than the psychedelic era). Have a couple of new old machines; thinking about painting them Ford tractor blue instead of Ford tractor gray. I use TSC tractor enamel; good old fashioned enamel that sprays better than anything else I've ever used, thins cleans up with mineral spirits. No fancy reducers, accelerators, retarders, etc, about $20 a gallon! Real durable, too. Does a good job of baking on in the central Texas summer sun. Just comes in black, white, and tractor colors though. I spray it with a spray gun; spray cans also available to use for touching up the inevitable nicks scratches. Lew (11049)
Paint options
I stopped by the Porter Paint/PPG paint store this afternoon to pick up supplies for my latest honeydo list. They mentioned they had a great two part epoxy which could be tinted to match almost any color and would even encapsulate tight rust spots. They also mentioned that epoxies chalk outdoors, so for outdoors, one would best put a two part urethane over the epoxy to protect it. (The urethane does not encapsulate the rust adequately). They can also provide powder coats in hundred pound orders! They did mention that two part paints are only sold to contractors. Interesting, but I think only very young members of the list have to think about using epoxy. Mike W (11053)
I'll bet most will be glad that this is the last I will say on the subject of painting....so here goes....Epoxies, Powder coatings, Activated Urethanes....all fine coatings but, lets remember we are painting tools that are to be used and maintained and part of maintaining is the periodic repainting with the same basic coating that the factory used in the first place....a readily available industrial maintenance coating not some high tech space age paint that calls for a fresh air mask or baking. Clean up your machine every so often and when needed repaint it. Mike  (11056)
Mike, I have one lathe from '32 that got one coat of paint from the factory and has been cleaned over the years. the other from the 50's looks to have gotten 2 coats, one to match, one looks like it was to cover the dirt. There are places like the carriage and tailstock, that will be abused horribly with tools and chips, but with little concern, the rest of the lathe will never need 2 coats. I am on the side of point of view rather than firm belief. I think that if painting the lathe gets me the powder coat gun... great ! If I just wanted it to look nice, I'd buy twice the paint I needed and keep the can for touch-ups. I think the bottom line is to decide what method you like/want/need and do that. I bet there are lots of guys who are asking "are you gonna paint or make chips"? Dave (11063)
Part temperatures
Really? this would mean that a 'greenhouse' could be make pretty darn large and set in the yard to do the baking. heck, a couple reflectors and you could easily get 400 degrees. another "Why didn't I think if that" solutions Dave (11062)
I found this site useful for real stuff and Info. I am not affiliated with them. http://www.eastwoodcompany.com  --jerry (11069)
Dave I would hate to say how many valve covers and slot car motor cans I have done in wrinkle paint that way over the years. JWE (11077)
I guess I just assumed the powder coat was some extremely special high-tech stuff. Seems that all it is is some 'plastic' than needs to melt to seal. Dave (11078)
Powder Coating
Steve, I was wondering if you do your own powder coating? If yes, did you buy the kit from the Eastwood catalog? I want to start powder coating and I was wondering how it works for you. Philip (13148)
Yes, I do my own powder coating, I started with an Eastwood kit and the old oven from the house. I now have a 42 inch wide industrial oven and am using a gun from Columbia Coatings. I still buy a lot of my powders from Eastwood. I have been very satisfied with the whole powder coating process. Coating castings does take some extra work as grease and oil tend to come out of the castings if you are not careful. It sometimes takes a couple of sessions in the oven to get all the oil to come out. Steve (13167)
Steve, Is it possible to powder coat hinges? I make my own hinges for wrought iron work and was wondering if the powder coat would cause the hinges to lock up or maybe even bind... Also, what do you like about the Columbia Coatings gun as opposed to the Eastwood gun. Which gun would you suggest I get? Philip (13193)
You would have to mask the bearing area and coat them before you assemble them. Usually holes are masked with silicone plugs. The powder will not get into the the hinge bearing area but might bridge over the 2 parts of the hinge. The Columbia gun ( same as Harbor Freight ) is a gravity feed vs the Eastwood with a siphon feed. Either will do the job but I am getting slightly better results with the Columbia gun. The Eastwood gun seems a little easier to clean and uses a pretty standard cup ( the Eastwood powders now come in the same cup which is real convenient just screw it on and go). (13194)
Southbend colors
As far as I know the only standard colors Southbend ever had for its lathes were black (on very early lathes) and a number of shades of grey. Some Southbend lathes with original paint look green because of a oil film build up over the years. Gary(13979)
Some while back someone posted a picture of a brand new, but vintage SB lathe, discovered unsold and in storage all its life. That lathe looked pale greenish grey in the photo. I scanned the pic and got the color closest to that when I painted mine. I like it, whether original or not. Len (13984)
I understand the "purists" point of view, although I definitely hate the SouthBend gray color. I think I'm going to go with the color scheme that another SB user posted on the Chaski boards. Here's the link to the "9/11 Red, White Blue" Shaper by Joe Guidry, What a gem!: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Metal_Shapers/ (13998)
Urethane Enamel
Could someone tell me if urethane Enamel can be used in a Wagner Power Painter and If so what dilution? Vinny (14268)
Go to the Benjamin Moore paint website and ask them. They are quick to respond and are very helpful. I used their M22 base high gloss paint. JP (14281)
Having been a Painter for the past 25years and using and buying a multitude of Painting equipment have found that Wagner machine will only work if the material being sprayed is thinned to the point that the paint is ruined. If you are set on spraying the Urethane Enamel go and rent or barrow a Graco . Mike (14283)
Painting the change gear plate?
The brass plate on my "new" QC gearbox is faded to the point that it is unreadable. The lettering is still raised a little but the paint is about gone. How would you go about repainting it without covering up the lettering? Is there a restoration specialist that does this? (15444)
Yes, there are restorers that do this for cars etc. but the prices are HIGH. I received a bid of something like 800.00 for a far simpler plate on my 44' Harley. Do a search on data plates, id plates and similar. (15445)
I think one of our SB board members makes these plate. Might check for availability. Also, check the used dealers, Sobel, Plaza and Meridian, they may sell used ones in very good condition. Tom (15446)
Here are a few options: In the Photos section, there's a guy who sells reproduction plates. His stuff is on eBay also. Another option is to look in the phone book for outfits that make bowling trophies, awards plaques, etc. If you provide them some original art or images, they can print it on a brass or aluminum plate (don't know how many colors though). The other option I like is to make your own decals, the type you soak in water and slide off, just like the ones in plastic models. You can buy this special paper and print them out on your own inkjet printer. So if you can you use Photoshop or PowerPoint, or if you have a good jpeg or tiff image, you can just print your own, up to 8 1/2 x 11. Jeff (15447)
Yes, Randy sells the replacement plates, he is a member right here. They are only about 35.00. Clint (15448)
You can make your own plate look pretty good by first cleaning it up as best as you can. Then scanning it at high rez and then repaint the images silk screened areas in a photo shop like program. Then print it out on film, the water transfer or sticky backed type and put it over your original. Its the same principal as the silk screening they did originally and keeps your original stamping intact. You might try the heat transfer sheets but I haven't tried these myself on metal. For best results a photo quality ink jet or dye sub printer is needed. On a boat I put several coats of clear over the decal just to be on the safe side. (15450)
I have successfully repainted these with this procedure: 1. Clean and polish the plate with fine scotch bright. 2. Paint the plate with enamel paint, painting over the lettering. 3. Saturate a piece of poster board or cardboard with lacquer thinner. 4. Rub the face of the plate gently against the poster board to remove the paint from the raised areas to expose the brass lettering. 5. Spray on a light coat of clear lacquer or polyurethane. It might take a couple attempts to get the hang of it, but it can be very successful. It doesn't work well if the plate is badly bent or dented. Jim (15452)
I bought one of these plates for my 9" model A QC box. Very nice, well done piece of work. I haven't yet figured out how to get the old one off though, so it hasn't been installed yet. Anyone have tips on getting the old screws out? One very minor nitpik on the 9" QC plate, there is a typo where a feed rate of .180 was printed as .108, as I recall. Doesn't bother me, but maybe would bother someone more persnickety than I am. John (15454)
I am in the process of rebuilding a 10K lathe. I bought from Randy a new plate, nicely made. In order to remove the rivets, I used a very small screw driver (Like those found in sets in one dollar stores). With a hammer, I inserted the screwdriver between the rivet and the plate. It moved it upward slightly. Then, I used a pair of wise grips to pull them out. The rivets are still usable. This damaged slightly the old plate, and the screw driver. Guy (15457)
I use a Magic Marker. (15458)
In some cases you can get behind the rivet, for instance on the end cover, if so then a small punch will drive it out without any damage. I have also used a very sharp chisel and tapped on it from the outside. All you need to do is move the rivet slightly and it will move enough to remove with pliers. It is actually not a rivet but a screw of sorts the threads have a high feed. I have replaced the rivets with stainless torx screws scrounged from hard drives. Later South Bends had the plates held on with regular pop rivets. (15460)
John I did not notice the error in the plate feed rate on the one I got, I need to take another look and get back with Randy about it I would suggest drilling out the old pins that hold the plate, Randy sent me new pins with my plate. Clint (15461)
Be careful! if you drill out, Randy's pins don't necessarily fit the old holes. I tried Randy's pins. They are fine for the oil chart that fits the belt cover on my SB 10K. On the gear box, it is another story; the pins are slightly larger on my gear box. Randy's pins won't fit there. Guy (15464)
I have had luck in using a small pin punch and driving them out from the backside. Drilling them out can elongate the hole and require a larger new pin. If they are in a blind hole I have sharpened a small cold chisel (similar to a wood chisel) and grind a small notch in it with a Dremmel type burr. Think of a 'cats paw' nail remover with a flat back in miniature. You can sometimes grab the head with a pair of nippers with a flat face like the nail pullers the horseshoers use. Diagonal wire cutters with a flat ground back will also work, just be careful you don't cut the head off the pin in the process of removing it. Twist and pull, the drive pins are sometimes spirally fluted. If all else fails, drill and tap a new hole and use screws. JP (15476)
Paint the plate and wipe the paint off of the raised letters with solvent dampened cloth pulled tight over a flat surface like a paint stick. Only wipe it once per cloth wiper because the second wipe will put paint back on the letters. You may need more than one cloth wiper. Touch it up after the paint dries with 'bright boy' (grit impregnated rubber) by hand. If you mess up on the first attempt you can just wipe off the whole plate while the paint is wet and start over. Don't get too persnickety with the wiping off of every ding and edge, the bright boy will take care of that. JP (15492)
Paint help needed
I'm using Ben/moore M22 industrial paint. Brushed on not thinned. The listed dry time is 2hr to touch (I'm at 8) But my concern is how long does this paint take to become hard and durable ? It's easy to scratch aft 24hr. (drying environment at 70 degrees F). Adam (18199)
Even automotive paint with a hardener added takes time to harden. Handle gently for a month or so. Joe R. (18200)
Add sunlight in an enclosed area to raise temperature above 150deg for about 5 hours. JWE (18202)
I am still in the process of restoring my Heavy 10, and I am using M22 Benjamin Moore paint. 90% of my parts have been painted via conventional spray. During the winter months, I had a ventless propane heater in my shop, which drove the humidity to 90%+. It would take days for the paint to dry to the touch. Now in the spring, I can paint a part and 10 hours later I can grab and move the part without worry. If you read the data sheets for the paint, I believe that they specify that the temperature be at least 5deg above the dew point. (You will have to do the math to see if your temp/humidity meet spec) After my chip tray had been painted for 5 weeks, I scratched it without too much effort. (accidentally) Be patient. I believe that this stuff is very durable, and will take time to cure. (18204)
I found that I need to get the paint warmer. I was drying in the garage. This is heated but not warm. Moving the parts into the furnace room improved the situation a lot. I baked some of the smaller parts in the oven at 175F for 20 minutes (When my wife was out. This also helped. I am sanding (180 grit) the primer before the final coat and the baking was on the primer. After a few days in the furnace room (This is where my lathe is) The paint seems OK. Jim B. (18205)
Repainting 1945 SB 9" Model A
Does anyone have the paint and color data for repainting this lathe. Previous posts have listed Benjamin-Moore M22 Industrial enamel, but not the color. (18565)
Color number 3418 (18568)
Here is a link to some pictures of my rebuild job. I used the same color that J.P. stated (Benjamin Moore Color #3418) Click on the "Assembly" photos to see the painted parts. This way you can decide if you like the color or not. *pictures no longer available* (18571)
Chris, Looks great! I'll be painting my SB 9 next month and have been searching the forum for tips. How did you prep and apply the paint on your machine? TJ (18572)
Paint questions
I have searched the archives looking for paint info. and have seen the references to Benjamin Moore M22 #3418. Exactly what color is this? My lathe 9" Model A from the fall of 1960 is painted a green color, a sea foam, kind of like the early Mercury outboards. Is this the original color? I was under the impression that the original color was a battleship kind of grey? Mark
3418 is gray. Sort of a medium gray. I have a gallon. I seem to remember that Rose, from SB, once mentioned that if you bought a batch of lathes you could have them in any color you wanted. There was an earlier SB color which was a green-gray but not seafoam. I recently acquired a Burke #4. It is/was gray over green over gray. Perhaps there was a Machine Shop interior decorator going around at the time painting things green. Jim B. (18942)
When I worked on submarines they would paint each coat with alternating colors, grey and light grey. This would allow them to verify complete coating of each coat. Maybe they hired an inspector from the Navy. JP (18948)
There was a greenish grey on some lathes. I was the one who came up with the 3418 color. My lathe had oil soaked paint and it was a bit greenish in places but I took off a handle and cleaned it and stripped off the surface paint and then matched the color to the paint chips. It may not be a perfect match but it is very close to the original color of my lathe and the urethane enamel is good in an oily environment. JP (18949)
Mark, The color from B.M is a cross reference to Dutch Boy 367. Mike (18953)
I bought a beautiful 16" Rockford at an auction. It had the regular grey paint, but underneath it was BRIGHT YELLOW! I remember my Dad telling me that in the 70's some motivational idiot told GE to let each person paint their machine whatever color they wanted to increase productivity. It made the machine their own little piece of artwork. Be the machine, caress the machine, love the machine. He thought it was goofy and I still do. I still have to strip all the yellow paint off that Rockford. Paul  (18954)
When I bought my SB 10K, it was painted green (over light grey) The previous owner had done a "nice paint job " in order to make it attractive. With the exception of bed ways, everything was painted. Everything includes the chuck, dials, handles, tailstock sleeve you name it, it was painted. Fortunately, it was badly painted and on many parts that were regularly in contact with oil, paint lifted off very easy I am in the process of re-building it. I sand blasted everything that I could, including the bed. (after coating the machined surfaces with duct tape) I got some Benjamin Moore paint made up. I ended up with a light grey that is of a slightly lighter grey than what I could use as reference color from the original parts. (color is looking good to me) For my Craftsman lathe (that is still mostly on its original color) I got a almost perfect match. (difference is that the finish is glossy) It is very useful for paint touch ups I found a SB thread dial (deadly cheap, couldn't afford to leave it in the store) It has many chips of paint that lifted off, but the color is green (some sort of olive green) and it seems to be the original color from the factory. The thread dial looks new (if you make abstraction of the paint job) In the same box, I found a light grey idler gear 80T I have seen some SB machines painted some sort of battleship grey. (actually darker) (18961)
Don't know about the original color of your 1960 model, Mark, but my Lend-Lease 9B gets painted with grey floor paint. It's about the right grey, slightly flexible and stands the oil, abrasion etc. very well, being designed for such things. Rob. (18965)
Suggestions for paint?
I know the subject of paint has been discussed before, especially the B.M. M22, but has anyone found a decent off-the-shelf paint that's suitable for lathe use? After tearing down my SB 9 model A, I started repainting some parts using Rust-Oleum professional series spray paint and found the results to be marginal. It works OK on parts where the entire surface is coated, but on other parts such as the carriage assy where quite a bit is masked, durability is marginal. Perhaps there is a better coating I could brush on and still get a decent finish? Tom (19684)
Make sure you use a commercial metal etching primer under the paint. It gives a good bond to the metal and is made to protect the adhesion of the paint. Paul (19685)
I brushed the M22 on my lathe. I used the Benjamin Moor primer first however. The downside is the cost ~$22 per gallon and it only comes in gallons. I purchased 8 empty quart cans at HD ~$1.25 each and emptied the gallon cans into the Quart cans. This stops the can-in-use from going bad. I stripped all parts in the "electrolytic stripper" first. Then wirebrushed them and then wiped them down with paper towels and solvent. I applied one coat of the BM primer. (M-4 I believe. The local BM man tinted the primer to match) On the parts were the sand marks showed I sanded lightly, sometimes filling the roughness with body filler (no not epoxy, the primer based filler that comes in a tube). If I filled I used a second coat of the BM primer. Sanded lightly (100/120) grit and then brushed the final coat on. I note a significant difference in the application of the BM during the warmer months as opposed to the cooler months. I did my SB-9 in the February time frame. My Garage is somewhat heated. ~65 degrees. The parts needed to be moved into the cellar to dry properly and they would take a day or two. The application was sticky. I used the same paint on my New-Old Burke #4 (not quite the same as the original color but for $22 close enough). This is a work in process. On a warm day the paint flows very well, Runs are minimal and it dries quickly, to the touch in 2 to 3 hours. One quart has done the Burke and most of the SB-9. I still have a lifetime supply. Jim B. (19688)
Thanks to all who answered my recent question regarding paint. Since the rust-oleum method does not seem to be working (not as durable as I would have liked), I decided to head over to the local B.M dealer and ask for a gallon on M22 in South Bend colors. The young fellow behind the counter gave me a blank stare. What exactly should I have asked for? Tom (19828)
Tom, Sherwin Williams manes SB's paint. (19829)
I used BM M-22 paint color #3418. I have some pics posted if you want to review the color before making a decision. I also used M-06 Primer. (Highly recommended) I used a conventional suction feed gun to paint most parts. I used model paint brushes on the smaller parts. Thinning was not required for either method. If you still have trouble, reply to this message, and I will dig up the invoice from when I ordered the paint. (19830)
Where are you located. When I got my (required) gallon of each, I separated it into quart cans to reduce the problem of skimming over. I have used less than one quart on my SB-9 and My Burke #4. If you are in NJ you can have a quart of each. Jim B. (19832)
S-W can also match BM's paint using BM's numbers. I painted my 10L over twenty years ago with S-W's paints and it still looks like the day I put it on. I didn't use primer and sprayed it all. There's no chips or discoloration. Joe R. (19836)
Urethane Alkyd Gloss Enamel, deep base M22 3B, color# 3418 separated it into quart cans to reduce the problem of skimming over. I have used less than one quart on my SB-9 and My Burke #4. If you are in NJ you can have a quart of each. (19837)
I know that this is over a month old but, I found paint at a Tractor Supply store that was wonderful. They have machinery gray in two shades, dark gray and a light gray. I tried the spray bombs but I didn't like how solvents reacted to the paint. Just wasn't durable enough for me. So I bought it by the quart and used their hardener with it. What a finish! I sprayed mine with a small imported touch up gun that you can purchase for under $40. The paint and hardener are inexpensive. Just be sure to wear a mask when spraying. You probably would have good results if you brushed it on too. Brian (20191)
That's nice. How about a brand or manufacturers name, part number (even paint has that), etc. Fred (20192)
I'm stripping, cleaning and painting a 13" SB lathe that I just bought. On Saturday I bought "Tractor and Implement" red oxide primer, generic gray finish, and enamel hardener at Tractor Supply. They have two brands, one is Valspar and the other is BPS (I think). I bought the BPS. So far, I've just sprayed primer, thinning with a little naphtha, cleaning up with mineral spirits. The primer sprays well and doesn't seem to want to sag. I've read elsewhere that this paint works well on machine tools, has good oil and solvent resistance and that the hardener helps. I cannot personally attest to this but we'll see. Note that once you add the hardener, you've got about an eight hour shelf life on the mix. Drying time seems to be about 3 hours to the touch. There's a decent selection of colors, some generic ones and others to match specific equipment - like "Massey Ferguson Gray". About $21/gallon, hardener is about $10. Ed  (20217)
I just bought a heavy 10. The machine is in good shape but the paint is flaking in many small areas. I do not want to strip the paint but what I am considering is to wire brush and then use spot putty to fill these areas before repainting. Is this practical ? What seems to cause this spotting ? I don't see any marking as if the lathe has been hit repeatedly. Has anyone found a machine grey in an aerosol spray enamel? (20554)
This is entirely practical. Over at one of the vertical mill groups, one guy who used to work for Bridgeport says this is exactly what they did when refurbishing machines. Other handy tools are a random orbit sander and a "scaler" (like an air chisel with several 1/8" wire fingers). I'm using a combination of everything where it makes sense for me (scaling, sanding, blasting, and stripping) on my 10L. Also, you might want to use a good respirator/dust mask, as I would bet the original paint is lead based. Jeff I do not want to strip the paint but what I am considering is to wire brush and repainting. Is this practical ? (20557)
I wonder if one of those products that makes new paint adhere better to previously painted surfaces would be worth considering? I've used the stuff in my home when painting over enameled window trim, (I thin it was Ban-O-San) and it works great - good adhesion to a formerly shiny surface. but never on a metal tool. Anybody got experience? Frank (20558)
Paint specification
I have just acquired a 9" C - 1940 vintage - and want to undertake a ground up renovation. I have encountered a problem with the paint finish. The commercial systems of primer/undercoat/ filler/ finish are subject to minimum orders large enough to paint a small ship and some are not supplied to non-commercial organizations for safety reasons (maybe we might sniff it) Could someone suggest a suitable system in basic terms - ie no trade names - so that I can find a local supplier here in the UK. Christopher (21999)
I have used Urethane Alkyd Gloss Enamel made by Benjamin Moore M22 base color 3418. Its not the original paint but the color is pretty close and it stands up well to solvents. You can sniff it if you like but it won't do anything except make your nose grey. Available by the pint just like Guinness. JP (22000)
Best Paint EVER
....Would be one that would stand up to Acetone. I like using acetone as a degreaser and deoiler because it works so quickly and leaves no residue. But if not removed quickly from the painted surface, it will remove the paint. Do any of you know of a paint finish that would stand up to acetone? (22579)
Epoxy would be the most resistant. Repeated use of acetone will eventually break it down along with your skin and lungs.
Sherwin-Williams Prolane-T definitely does. I just used it on same. RichD (22583)
I've used Polane-T in the past on the job. The only bitch is it has an isocyanate catalyst--READ and FOLLOW the safety precautions, I did permanent damage to my body working with the stuff...I think all the really bulletproof paints have an isocyanate catalyst...Polane-T, Lenmar, Imron to name a few. Lurch (22584)
Lurch, I don't use it (apply), I engrave supplied al panels that have been painted with it. The wash to remove excess color filler is acetone. No effect to the painted surface. RichD (22585)
Why not change solvents? Acetone will mess with your liver is extremely flammable and expensive. Mineral Spirits work as a fine solvent for grease and oil and most oil base paints will stand up to it. Mike (22588)
Question on color
Did south bend ever paint its machines green [olive]? all that I have ever seen are gray, of course I haven't really been into this machinery long. I have a 10k and there's not a speck of gray anywhere. not trying to be nitpicky, just wondered. (24405)
My '42 9" is that olive color. This is the OEM color. An old machinist dubbed this a variant of 'machinery grey". Mike (24406)
My 1952 13" SB seems to have been painted green originally. It has been painted gray the next 2 times that it was painted. The final paint job was done with a brush, and the not very well done as far as runs and brush hairs go. On the other hand it is protecting the surface of the machine pretty well. Nick (24408)
My 1940 10L has Military Zinc Chromate primer at the bottom, with green next, followed by a poorly done gray on the top. Since it is a War Baby, shipped to the U.S. Army in 1940, I am assuming it was shipped primered and green, then somewhere in the dim, foggy past since, someone got tired of looking at that green and hit it with gray. Brian PS: Someone here has pics of one they restored that is green with a black bench. Nice looking combination. (24483)
Primer on SB?
I am derusting my overhead drive for my SB and wanted to know if primer is recommended before finish coat? What is the best match for the original SB black? Was it flat or gloss? Who's paint has best resistance to lubricants and oils? Anyone happen to know the original color for the master-drive? Rick (25705)
I had an acquaintance once that was a professional industrial painter. He worked his life in various types of plants, painting behind the millwrights and pipe fitters. He once said, "Less paint, More primer". He would then explain that "less" could mean quantity or quality. He further griped that the specifications he had to follow, required a top quality paint, say, an oil based enamel for cast iron or forged machine surfaces. The spec also required similar high end quality in a primer. He claimed that, in his experience, if you apply a good paint to a clean surface, properly coated (not too thick per coat / not too thin) and allow it to cure under the recommended conditions, primer is a waste of time and money. I use Rustoleum spray paint for my "junkyard" welding projects. Since I am less than fastidious in the cleaning / coating / curing process, I usually use the "rusty metal primer" on black iron, followed by the final color. I live in Southeast Texas, so whatever I do is going to rust pretty quick if not careful. I just use thicker stock to allow for the ravages of corrosion! ;-) I note that the SB 9A I am cleaning up has a good amount of the original paint here and there. It is ALL good old US Navy, Haze Grey! Being a former Marine, I MAY paint mine OD Green ! Jerry (25706)
I used to repaint blood-cell separators. The polyurethane isocyanate-catalyzed epoxies we used [Lenmar and Sherwin-Williams Polane-T] stuck to the steel just fine, bulletproof stuff; after 24 hours even a beadblaster had a difficult time with it, if rework was needed we stripped it back off with 40-grit and LOTS of punctuation marks...but over any kind of primer they never did cure completely and we'd end up stripping the entire workpiece with a putty knife and lacquer thinner and redoing it. If you use one of these paints, do NOT take the warning on the can about proper ventilation, lightly. These paints are nasty, nasty, nasty...and the side-effects last forever. I have used plain old rattle-can Rustoleum on various motorcycle parts...properly baked, it flows out like glass and is pretty tough stuff. Lurch . (25707)
A subject I know something about.. Which shade of OD Green you thinking. WWII lusterless, KoreanVietnam 24087 Semi-gloss or modern flat CARC green? Check out rapcoparts in your area for Gillespie Paint, considered the best in the military vehicle collector crowd for OD paint. Rick (25708)
YeeHaa, somebody to pester about info! Color-shade does not matter to me. Durability, ease of application and how well/easy oil and chips wipe off without damage, in THAT order is all I care about. You say "rapcoparts in your area" ? Never heard of them. I HAVE heard of Gillespie paints, howsomever. Thanks for the tip. All other details will be appreciated. Old USMC saying: " If it ain't green, it ain't groovy" ;-) Jerry (25709)
RAPCO Parts Company P.O. Box 191 Bowie, Texas 76230 Please phone us Monday thru Thursday 9am - 4pm CST, or you may fax us anytime. Phone: 940-872-2403 Fax: 940-872-3406 With UPS HazMat fees on paint will probably be cheaper to pickup in person. You could use the original Chemical Agent Resistive Coating (CARC) paint so your SB could survive a chemical attack and be usable :-) but I hear its real nasty stuff. Rick (25710)
I use urethane alkyd gloss enamel from Benjamin Moore. Its resistant to solvents, cheaper than Rustoleum and available locally. No epoxy fumes either. Check out their website for recommendations for a primer. JP (25712)
Jerry, that's a SeaBee with a light duty chit. Duane (25714)

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