| 9" tailstock feed handwheel
(Mar 22, 2001) |
Tailstock offset (Nov
10, 2003) |
| Tail stock maintenance
(Sep 5, 2001) |
Tailstock clearing saddle
(Nov 12, 2003) |
| Tail stock (turret) (Oct
19, 2001) |
Tailstock taper question
(Jan 4, 2004) |
| Tailstock nut (Jan 31,
2002) |
Tailstock rebuild? (Feb
1, 2004) |
| Tailstock alignment (May
20, 2002) |
Tail stock set-over adjustment
(Feb 4, 2004) |
| Heavy 10" tailstock help
(May 23, 2002) |
Heavy 10 tailstock adjustment
(Aug 22, 2004) |
| Shimming the Tailstock
(Jun 24, 2002) |
Tailstock Spindle Tread
(Aug 30, 2004) |
| Tailstock height adjustment
(Jul 26, 2002) |
Lever tailstock (Sep 1,
2004) |
| Mystery hole in tailstock
(Jul 30, 2002) |
Tailstock Quill Honing
(Oct 6, 2004) |
| Fixing a grooved-up tailstock
spindle? (Dec 17, 2002) |
The tailstock bore (Oct
7, 2004) |
| Thread of the tailstock adjuster
screws? (Dec 23, 2002) |
Tailstock #2MT reamer revisited
(Dec 20, 2004) |
| Need Tailstock dimensions
(Jan 1, 2003) |
Need help on 10L tailstock base
(Dec 24, 2004) |
| Lever operated tailstock for 9"
lathe (Jan 5, 2003) |
Tailstock wrench (Jan 2,
2005) |
| Help in centering tailstock
(Apr 12, 2003) |
Tailstock? off list (Jan
26, 2005) |
| Tailstock centering (Apr
13, 2003) |
Tailstock alignment (Feb
10, 2005) |
| 9 Inch SBL Tailstock Spindle
(May 9, 2003) |
Fix For Worn tailstock - SB 9"
Model A (Feb 13, 2005) |
| Stuck center in tailstock ,10k
(May 29, 2003) |
Tailstock is 0.12 " too low
(Feb 28, 2005) |
| |
| 9" tailstock feed handwheel |
| I
have decided that one of the first things I need ( want ) to do to my
poor old beat up lathe is to replace the ugly brazed on piece of pipe
that serves as the tail stock feed hand wheel. I am thinking I will
cast my own ( just to say I did ) if any one would like to volunteer an
Idea as to how I might make a pattern ( correct from an existing
handwheel ) and somehow transport that pattern to Alaska without
destroying it I would be more than happy to listen. I was kinda hoping
I could come up with a simple way and then impose upon someone with a
good hand wheel to press theirs into a mould for me. possible ?
feasible? just plain stupid? (373) |
| Could you use your own
carriage handle to
make the mould? Or at least a wood pattern in the diameter similar
in design? (375) |
| Dave, I have
been watching dragonpit and that's what lead me to believe that I can
cast my own. No I cant use mine as a pattern, I have just the hub
and some uneven nubs to which a small piece of old water pipe has
been brazed. (377) |
| Daniel, Have you thought about an
aftermarket replacement handwheel? I know KBC Tools has a
nylon/steel one about the right size for about $16.00. As I recall,
other places sell generic cast iron and steel handles that you could
bore for a good fit and a great look. I believe the wheel is just
over 3 inches in diameter and the rim is just over a half inch
thick. Should be easy to track down. Paul R. (379) |
| I'm going to be
making a new one for mine it has a chuck out of the hub. I can
either cast one for you with mine, or if you want to cast it
yourself I'll share my pattern with you. It could be a month or two
before I do it. the one I'll cast will be aluminum. Henry (Wood
Dragon) (380) |
| I have to remember
to finish my train of thought before I hit the send button. the one
I cast will be out of aluminum cast onto a crs center that will have
to be bored out to fit the shaft of the tail stock. or something
like that I think I need sleep. will not be on cam tonight. Henry
(381) |
| Dan, I would
recommend getting a handwheel from someone like MSC, Reid Tool
Supply Company or McMaster-Carr. MSC has a pretty good replacement
for a price cheap enough to prevent most from trying to cast their
own. For example: Part No: 06915045 - 4" 3-spoke unfinished
handwheel - $3.70 ea. Part No: 06916043 - 4" 3-spoke finished chrome
plated handwheel - $10.36 ea. I get the unfinished ones and finish
them myself. These are a little hard to hold in the standard Cushman
5" 3-jaw chuck but the 4-jaw will work fine. Buy two at this price
in case you screw the first one up. They also have machine handles
but you can make that part if you wish. You can contact MSC at:
http://www.mscdirect.com Webb (382) |
| Why don't you
buy one from MSC or somebody and put it on like Southbend? Bob (385) |
| Tail stock
maintenance |
| Now about this
t-stock maintenance. Here is some input: 1.Can you get a new one?
Doing this will also be a tighter fit for the O.D. of the quill.
Thus making a more accurate tail stock. 2.A MT-2 hand reamer is
going to put you back anywhere between $25-$60 from M.S.C. 3. Have
you thought of lapping out the quill? If there are only very small
dings in the bore you may get away with just cleaning them up. 4.
Some wood working tool places sell a clean-out tool that could be
used as a lapping tool. They are plastic and cheap. You can also make
one out of copper or brass. IN general, I would start by doing a
hi-spot check using a magic-marker on your test taper. Just to see
how bad it really is. I'm not sure if holding the reamer in the
head stock will gain you much. The second your reamer gets seated in
the bore, it will conform to whatever the bore is anyway. You only
want to take off the high spots, not re-machine the whole thing.
While your at it, I'd check for the amount of drop between t-stock
and head stock. There is usually some wear on the ways, (and the
bottom of the tail stock). Should you decide to shim this, be sure
to shim it parallel to the ways. That way the t-stock will not be
pointed off at an angle. Ron
(1474) |
| It's not dinged.
It's slightly galled. Probably from a drill chuck arbor slipping in
the taper. (1480) |
| Tail stock
(turret) |
| Here is a picture
(I hope) of my 9" south bend lathe can some one tell me about the
tailstock (make, model) I have not seen one like it before. (1916) |
| What you have there
is a turret tailstock, usually used in a production like setting,
but I've wanted one before when I was doing a project with a lot of
similar parts. What you can do is set up a different tool in each
spot on the tilted round thingy and then rotate them into position
as needed. For example, you might have a center drill, a small
drill, full size drill, reamer, and counterbore. You can simply use
each tool and then rotate the next one into place. It may be
actuated
by a lever rather than a handwheel. If you decide you don't want it,
I'm sure you can sell it for enough to buy a normal one. Looks like
you got a good toolpost, too. Chris (1919) |
| Tailstock nut
|
| Would someone with a 9" or 10K please measure the distance
across the flats of the nut that locks the tailstock to the bed? My
lathe came with what I believe to be the original SB tailstock
wrench, but it's too big for the nut. I suspect someone has changed
the nut for some reason. BTW, the nut I have is 13/16 across flats.
Raymond (3023) |
| The correct wrench
is 13/16". rays (3024) |
| My 1941 9" is
11/16" Paul R. (3025) |
| Raymond; I think
someone changed the wrench, not the nut ;-( My 9 inch tailstock
wrench measures a loose 13/16 between flats on 2 sides, and a tight
13/16 across the third pair of faces. It's a loose fit on the nut.
The nut measures 0.775 +/- a few thou across the flats. This is on a
1939 Workshop C. If your wrench happen to be just over 1.060 across
the flats, it's from a 13 inch. Should this be the case, and you
don't have a desire to keep the wrench, please set a price and
contact me. I'm looking for a tailstock wrench for my 13 inch SB. I
didn't see any at Cabin Fever, and having the original would be
nicer than using a 1 1/16 wrench. For what it's worth, tailstock
wrenches in good shape but needing paint for the 9 inch lathes were
$15 to $20 at Cabin Fever. You might be able to get one from Plaza
Machinery, Sobel, or Dave Ficken. I'm pretty sure Sobel had a few at
the show. His number is 201.768.9645. Stan (3028) |
| I have a 1942 model B. That nut is a heavy 3/4 of an inch, on that particular one. I
have not measured it, but was turning a taper Thursday evening, with
the compound. This rendered the factory wrench unusable. I picked up a
standard (craftsman) 3/4 combination wrench and found it an
extremely tight fit. I only used the open end part to sneak under the
body of the compound, it was tight across the flats, but it did go on
the nut. My Logan 9B28 lathe has a standard 3/4 nut in that
spot, that's where I grabbed the wrench from, but I had to make a new
nut for my Atlas 10 because it had a nut that only fit a strange
"gas cylinder" wrench that came with that Atlas. Check the fit of
that wrench on your gear nuts. The one on my B model fits both the
tailstock and the big nuts on the changegears. That might tell you
whether the wrench or the nut is wrong. RC
(3032) |
| The wrench I have measures ~.93 (15/16) across the flats, but does
not fit on a 15/16 hex nut I have lying around. Perhaps it's 7/8?
Regardless, in the recess of the handle I can make out what I
believe to be the South Bend insignia, and the number "55R1", if
that allows anyone to help identify it. It doesn't seem to fit
anything anywhere on my lathe, so if anybody is interested, let me
know. Raymond (3065) |
| Tailstock
alignment |
| My tailstock on my
10" SBL is off vertically (was off horizontally as well but fixed
(?) a twist in bed). When I put new dead centers in the headstock
spindle and tailstock and push them together there is about a 32nd
inch+ drop of the tailstock center point as compared to the
headstock. I have a lot of wear on the tailstock ways (my first lathe
and all = cheap) that tapers off to no wear halfway towards
headstock spindle. I use the lathe as a mill as well and made my
first part that really needed a centered tapped and drilled hole. I
didn't achieve this. Is there any way to correct this problem other
than having the bed reground? I haven't bothered with a test bar yet
as it's obvious it's off. Tim Q (4258) |
| Tim; Before you
go much further, you might check that the tailstock is low a pretty
consistent amount the entire length of the bed. If it is, life is
easy. If it isn't, pick a point around 6 inches from the chuck jaws
and use that point as the one to get on center. More on this below,
but the math gets sort of long winded, so I'll get to the point
here. If you don't use tailstock setover often or at all, simply
shim between the tailstock base and tailstock body. Brass is OK,
steel shimstock is better if you do much taper work via setover. I
suggest 6 inches as the point to get dead on as variations in
vertical height matter more as the work gets smaller, and you aren't
likely to be using the tailstock to center small work over long
distances. If you do lots of stuff at 3 inches, use 3 inches. Just
pick some point that is a good compromise. If the tailstock is low
over the entire length of the bed this isn't a consideration. The
following is from discussions we had on the Taig group about
tailstock height and how much variation you can live with. This also
applies in the case where the carriage ways are a tad worn, but not
enough to create binding or so worn that the carriage can bang
around in the worn area. The comment about lapping the tailstock
down a few thou isn't the answer for CI parts, the Taig uses
aluminum extrusions for the tailstock. **** Paste of old message
begins **** To a great extent, the effect of a given amount of
vertical offset of the tailstock is determined by the diameter of
the work being done. I worked this out pretty carefully several
years ago while making a fixture to allow me to regrind a badly worn
7 foot South Bend bed in my shop. The answers I got surprised me, to
the point that unless you can rock the saddle or bind it hard over
the range of a travel, I usually give the advice NOT to regrind a
bed, provided there is not a lateral (horizontal) displacement of
the cutter with respect to spindle centerline. A thou in and out of
the cutter gives 2 thou variation in diameter. Not a good thing. An
offset tailstock front to rear (tailstock set over) will give twice
the error in the finish diameter. A vertical offset generates less
error than you would expect. It is a non zero error, but things have
to be pretty far out of kilter before it ruins your day in most
tasks. The original post stated the offset was a few hundredths.
That would be quite a bit. Any chance the post should have said
thousandths? If it is in fact a few hundredths, I'd suggest the
tailstock or headstock are out of spec, or one or both centers are
incorrectly ground. If a few thou, and not a matter of the centers
being off center, ignore it or cut down the tailstock. It won't take
long to do this, I'd think a few minutes at most with some 400 grit
oiled down to the bed, and sliding the tailstock back and forth on
the abrasive would do the job. I'd also ask the method used to
determine the offset, getting a really accurate test of this
requires an accurate test bar held between centers. If you hate
math, here's the bottom line. If the centerline of a workpiece
raises 11 thou over the length of the cut, and the target finish
diameter is 1/2 inch, you'll see a half thou of taper over the
length of the cut. 11 thou is quite a bit of offset. The larger the
diameter of the work, the less a vertical offset contributes to any
taper. If you want to see how I got here, the math follows.
ASSUMPTIONS: 1) If the cutter drops x below the starting centerline,
it has the same effect as the workpiece centerline raising x above
the starting centerline. Simply stated, it doesn't matter if the
cutter lowers 5 thou over 2 inches of cut (worn bed), or if the work
is inclined between centers so that the workpiece centerline rises 5
thou (headstock or tailstock center high). 2) The workpiece is of
large enough diameter, and the cutting edge sharp enough, that a few
thou above or below centerline does not change the cutting angles
sufficiently to result in different cutting behavior of the tool.
Obviously if you have the effective cutter height change by 30 thou
while cutting a 50 thou diameter this entire explanation is
completely invalid, as you would go from cutting to being completely
clear of the work! 3) When determining worst case taper for a given
amount of cutter to centerline vertical variation, the staring point
of the cut is dead on center. This simplifies things a bit, if you
think through the results of starting above centerline, and ending
below centerline, you will end up cutting a very shallow concave
surface over the length, rather than a taper. 3a) The starting
diameter is exactly the desired diameter, so that the distance from
the nose of the tool to the effective centerline of the work is the
adjacent side of a right triangle. 3b) The cutter drop (or rise) is
the opposite side of a right triangle. 3c) The actual diameter
produced is the hypotenuse of a right triangle. 3d) The juncture of
the adjacent side and the hypotenuse is at the effective centerline
of the work. Yes, this means I've flipped the right triangle from
the conventional representation. It's upside down, and the vertical
or opposite side is to the left. 4) The tailstock and headstock
centers are perfectly aligned horizontally, i.e. no taper is being
created by tailstock set over. 5) Flex in workpiece and tooling is
not considered, the work and lathe are perfect, so only changes in
effective cutter height effect the resulting diameter of the
workpiece. 6) Tool wear is discounted. If you have a tool wearing
fast enough to generate significant taper, you have the wrong tool,
and no doubt a very poor finish on your cut! Now dust off old Mr.
Pythagoras, and give this a thought. If the cutter drops one thou
while cutting a one inch diameter piece of work, what is the change
in diameter of the work piece? a^2 + b^2 = c^2 Let a = target radius
of the work (0.5 inches, or diameter / 2) Let b = cutter vertical
drop, in absolute numbers, i.e. always positive as it will always
result in an increase in diameter, assuming the cutter setting in a
above is dead on center at the starting point of the cut (assumption
3a). Let c = the actual radius of the cut workpiece, or actual
diameter / 2. Quick check with no vertical variation in cutter
height: a = .5000, b = 0 .5000 ^ 2 + 0.0000 ^ 2 = 0.2500 SQRT
(0.2500) = 0.5000, therefore diameter (c) is 1.000 inch. No
surprises so far. Now, lets introduce 1 thou drop: Again, a =
0.5000, b = 0.001 0.5000^2 + 0.0010^2 = c^2 0.2500 + 0.000001 =
0.250001 SQRT(0.250001) * 2 = 1.000002 diameter or if you prefer,
two millionths of an inch over target. Now do it for 1/4 inch
diameter: 0.1250 ^ 2 + 0.0010 ^ 2 = c^2 0.015625 + 0.000001 =
0.0156256 SQRT ( 0.015626) = 0.125004, ( times 2 for diameter)
giving a diameter of 0.250008. With this rather windy set up, lets
figure out how much the cutter has to drop to generate a half thou
error for a 1/2 inch target D. c = 1/2 Actual D(0.5005), or 0.25025
a = 1/2 Expected D (0.5000) or 0.2500 c^2 - a^2 = b^2 0.25025 ^ 2 -
0.2500 ^ 2 = b^2 0.062625 - 0.0625 = b^2 0.000125 = b^2 0.011183 =
b, or simply, the change in effective cutter height has to be about
11 thou to generate a half thou error in a target diameter of 0.500.
Repeating the exercise for a one inch diameter show that the cutter
height must change by just over 15.8 thou to generate a taper of
half a thou. Stan (4260) |
| Tim, Shim if you
must. A quick alignment check that I use often is to mount a dial
test indicator in a collet or chuck at the head stock end and sweep
the id. of the tail stock hole, or od. of the tail stock center ,or a
short piece of round stock if using a drill chuck. You can quickly
see and correct alignment problems with this method. I like a
Federal indicator with the ball mounting stem ( fits right into a
1/4" collet ). If your careful ,you can dial the horizontal to with
in + - .0005". Your on your own with the
vertical. Shim, regrind, scrape? If the vertical is too far off you
will get oversized holes if using a reamer without a floating holder, same for drilling. Steve
(4268) |
| Heavy 10"
tailstock help |
| I'm ready to
reassemble the tailstock for my Heavy 10" but still need to resolve
the Mystery Ring issues first. When I disassembled the tailstock I
found a brittle black ring in there that resembled a leather washer.
After looking at everything a second time I'm thinking now that it
was a piece of felt wicking placed there to help with oiling and
lubrication. It was found in the rear of the casting close to the
oil cup so it would make sense. Can anyone confirm this ? I'd like
to get it back together but don't want to leave out the wicking if
it's supposed to be there. Where can I get some or what should I
use. I have several scraps of green felt left over from relining a
tool chest, any chance it would work if cut to dimension or is it a
special felt that's used for oil wicks ? does anyone have photos of
the motor installation in an underdrive cabinet ? I have a the
cabinet and drive assembly but no motor. I also need the belt
tensioning handle for the front of the cabinet if anyone has one.
I've posted more pictures of the tailstock parts. I've gotten the
headstock, tailstock, back cover, bed and feet all painted. Hoping
to get it put together soon G Dark Ford Blue that I may use on the
9A. I was going to trade the smaller machine for a shaper but
haven't found one yet, might paint it while I'm looking. I've even
thought about painting it black like the old machines, might look
good. Any help with the tailstock would be greatly appreciated, I'm
holding off on the reassembly until I know more about the wicking or
washer or whatever it is. Pictures of the tailstock in question are
in the Photos section in the Heavy 10 Restoration folder. Dave (4302) |
| I think your
"washer" may be the buffer that goes on the screw. Prevents the
quill rear-end from smacking metal when the quill is drawn all the
way to the rear. (4303) |
| There are
different grades of felt, available in various thicknesses. Have you
tried to clean the old one with carburetor cleaner or brake parts
cleaner? I was able to clean and reuse my 45 y.o. Logan wicks. Ken
(4305) |
| David, The washer on
older machines was made of leather. Newer machines used a synthetic
rubber washer. As others have commented its a bumper stop. If you
need a parts break down, with part numbers contact me off list.
Steve (4309) |
| Shimming the
Tailstock |
| My Hercus 9A clone
came with a non-matching tailstock that was too low. I thought
shimming it would be an involved and tiresome operation. It wasn't,
it was very quick and I now have a totally accurate and concentric
tailstock. Check it out at:
http://steammachine.com/hercus/page6.html
Charlie (4733) |
| Nicely done,
Charlie, and an interesting web site. I hadn't thought of using a
ruler to rough-check the alignment of the head and tailstocks,
although I do use a ruler for setting cutter height. Very clever.
Paul R. (4736) |
| Tailstock
height adjustment |
| The center of the
tailstock on my new/old 10 heavy appears to be about .040" lower
than the center of the headstock spindle (checked using a "precision
ground" point from work in a collet and my shiny new live center in
the tailstock). I know how to adjust the tailstock from side to
side, but how do I adjust it vertically? It has 2 full-size shims
totalling .020" in it already, do I just add more? David (5392) |
| Yep. You can see
how I did it at:
http://steammachine.com/hercus/page6.html Don't forget to check
to see if there is any difference in height between the barrel fully
retracted and cranked right out. You may need to put a slightly
thinner shim at one end to compensate and bring it dead level.
Charlie (5438) |
| Where is the best
place to get the correct color paint for the SB lathe? Any one know
what to ask for? Clint (5443) |
| Charlie, thanks for
the reply, and nice site. I enjoyed reading about your problems
(sorry!) and learned a thing or two as well. Hope you will keep
updating it. David (5472) |
| The
Jacobs model 50 chuck and set of rubberflex collets arrived OK, and
I've used a couple of them just in testing. Unfortunately I've been
unable to go into the workshop much at all in the last 3-4 weeks and
so haven't taken any pics or updated the web page. I'll let you guys
know when I do. Charlie (5478) |
| Mystery hole in
tailstock |
| I'm
trying to figure out the function of the vertical hole (and bump-out
in= the casting) in the front of my tailstock. I've got quite a bit
of SB literature, and some pictures show= the hole empty while
others show something inside – what looks like a spherical
head on a pin of= some sort. Does anyone know what this is? I
suppose it could be a convenient place to store= your center drill,
but I can't find mention of this feature anywhere. Jeff
(5473) |
| Back in the "olden
days" when most turning was done between solid centers, the hole
held a dauber and oil for handy oiling of the center held by the
tailstock quill. It just consists of a small handle, with a pin, or
stem, protruding. The stem picks up the oil. The handle is usually
shaped like the handles on your various control
wheels, tailstock, carriage, etc. (5474) |
| Well I'll be... you
know, that actually makes sense - like most of the other parts of
my SB lathe! Pardon the cliché, but "They just don't make 'em like
they used to"! (5479) |
| It wasn't for
oil. White lead was used as the lubricant. White lead will
lubricate under high contact pressures. Ken :-) (5504) |
| Fixing a
grooved-up tailstock spindle? |
| The tailstock
spindle on my 10L is in pretty bad shape. Looks like it has had a
lot of "spinning within" :(. Nobody wants to sell just the spindle,
and the rest of the tailstock is OK. I thought of trying to bore it
out to 1" and inserting a MT2 sleeve, but I don't think there would
be enough material around the sleeve. Another thought I had today
was to face about 0.1" off of the front and recut the taper a touch
further. Sort of "pushing the taper further in". Any
comments/suggestions? My 10L has a taper attachment - anyone think a
newbie would have a snowball's chance in hell of pulling this off?
Think a "real" machine shop would be willing? Wallace
(8065) |
| I think you
have the right idea with fixing the one you've already got. Why not
buy or borrow a MT2 reamer and clean up your existing tailstock ram.
C (8067) |
| Wallace; I've
cleaned up quite a few rams and spindles with MT2 and MT3 finishing
reamers. I think an MT2 finishing reamer is around $35 or so, it's
been a while since I bought mine. Lots of oil, firm pressure,
advance the ram an inch or so to be sure not to hit the end of the
tailstock and screw, and lock the ram so it doesn't chatter on you.
Never turn a reamer backwards, you'll ruin the reamer and may damage
the taper socket. You could face off the end of the ram IF the
tooling seats too deeply after cleaning up the taper. Don't worry
about getting every pit or scratch out. Once the center seats with a
nice plonk sound and when firmly pressed in requires the ram to be
retracted to eject the center I consider the job done, even if the
taper socket isn't "factory new pretty." Stan (8069) |
| Wally, Why not get a
MT2 reamer and before you clean-up the old one make a new one. That
way if the reaming of the old one is not to your liking at least you
will have one .And while you are at it check your head stock for
galling( scoring) and buy an MT3 to clean-up that one as well. (8070) |
| I have bored the taper in the tailstock spindle of an 1890's lathe,
without a taper attachment. The taper was Jarno, and I could not
purchase tooling. I read through some old books and found that i
could make a bushing with the same thread as what was in the
tailstock barrel. I then threaded the solid bushing into the end the
barrel and drilled a center hole into the bushing. This was also
made on the same lathe. I the placed the barrel on a center in the
spindle with a dog. The dog is clamped to the piece and then rope is
used to VERY TIGHTLY tie the barrel onto the live center. The other
end of the barrel is placed in the center rest. The center rest is
adjusted as close as possible to the correct offset for your
particular taper. A boring tool is used and very light cuts are
taken inside the barrel. after a cut is taken, put chalk all over a
taper plug gage or accurate taper-shank drill, this is then pushed
into the barrel and turned 1 revolution and then pulled out. Look at
the shank or gage, if the taper is accurately cut, all the chalk
should be evenly rubbed off. If it is not, adjust the center rest in
the correct direction and take another cut. Repeat until taper is
accurate (all chalk is rubbed off evenly). As this is my only lathe,
I had no other way to cut the taper. This process is very
time-consuming and requires great accuracy. It would be easily done
in a similar manner using a taper attachment. Nick
(8076) |
| Rather than
use the taper attachment, a better way would be to ream it out to
clean it up. You can get MT2 taper reamers in rough and finish
versions, if it's as bad as you say you'll probably need both. One
word of warning about using reamers, NEVER BACK THEM UP! You're
virtually guaranteed to get a chip between the relief of the cutting
edge and the work piece you're reaming. As there is *no* support for
the cutting edge on the forward side you will almost certainly chip
out the cutting edge by the force of the chip wedging between the
work piece and the back side of the cutting edge. To extract the
reamer, continue to turn it forward as you are pulling it out of the
bore. Put a center in your spindle to support the back of the
reamer, slide your tailstock towards the headstock until most of the
clearance has been removed, lock the tailstock to the bed, then,
while turning the reamer by hand, advance the tailstock spindle by
using its hand wheel. When you think you might have taken out the
grooves pull out the reamer (remember not to reverse it) and check.
No harm in doing this early, it's easy to take another pass. Keep in
mind that a reamer of this sort requires a heavier force than you
might think so if at first it seems to just be skipping over the
surface try again with more end force. Repeat the process with the
finish reamer. Keep in mind that during this process you're trying
to remove the minimum that will give satisfactory results. When
you've finished cleaning up the taper and before you cut anything
off the end of the tailstock spindle, insert a good MT2 adapter to
check the fit. You want it to properly without requiring a lot of
force to seat it, it should resist turning and being pulled out by
hand, and it should not seat so deeply as to cause problems. If all
of these parameters are met leave the length alone. If the adapter
sits uncomfortably close to the mouth of the spindle bore, shorten
the spindle by the minimum that solves the problem. The other
possible problem is that the adapter will not sit sufficiently
deeply to cause a problem with the feed screw knocking it out before
you want it to. If so you may need to dismantle the feed screw and
remove a bit from its forward end, remember, the least amount to
solve the problem. Where are you located? Anybody on the list that
has the necessary reamers that's willing to loan them out? Anthony
(8089) |
| Thread of the
tailstock adjuster screws? |
| I just got a 9"
model B and it is missing 1 of the 2 adjuster screws. I think I am
going to make a new one. Does anyone know what thread that is?
Jamie (8225) |
| Jamie The adjuster
screws for what? Clint (8230) |
| Clint: did you ever
get either a factory manual or the PDF army manual? I think that you
would find it invaluable in your learning. Scott Logan posted either
a link to the army PDF it or posted it to the files area. you can
always look at John Wasser's pages online. Jamie: are we talking
about the setover screws? I think that they are the same 12-28 or
14-28 that have been recently discussed for the saddle/compound.
Chances are you are going to have to scrounge or make them. dennis
(8233) |
| The side to side
adjusters to center the tailstock. I was hoping that they were 1/4
20 or something that I could easily find. Are they some weird
thread? Jamie (8237) |
| Have you got a
parts break down. If not I will try to look the up when I go out to
the shop later Clint (8238) |
| Jaimie, I was
about to run downstairs and measure the thread on my tailstock
setover adjustment screws when I reread your post. You have 1 of 2
if you are only missing 1 of 2, or am I missing something? Glen
(8246) |
| Glen, There are
2 setover screws in the tailstock and I am missing one of them. Are
all or most SB screws a funny thread size? I need a new knob for the
power switch too so I wondered what thread that is. I was able to
get a 1/4-20 nut on there so I thought that was correct.
Jamie (8250) |
| My tailstock has
5/16-18 thread set-over screws. Nothing odd about that. (8252) |
| They're just
regular dog-point setscrews. I think that's what they're
called--where the point is flat and a little smaller than the minor
diameter of the threads. (8255) |
| Jaimie, I apologize
for the sarcastic sounding reply last night. I have been around my
in-laws for 4 days. What can I say? The setover screws are like
Lurch says, 5/16 - 18. The drum switch knob is 1/4 - 20 on my unit.
SB may have used several vendors for the switches, but 1/4 - 20
would be a real good bet. Glen (8256) |
| Need Tailstock
dimensions |
| The 9" SB I bought
came without a tailstock but it did come with a raw CI casting. I'm
going to try to make a tailstock out of aluminum before I try
working with the CI. I've taken a look at a lot of pictures on eBay
and have a pretty good understanding of what needs to be done. But I
do need the dimensions of the quill and what thread is the adjusting
screw is? I also haven't been able to determine how the key to stop
the quill from turning is arranged. John (8431) |
| John, My SB 9A TS
has 5.125 long 1.060" dia barrel with a 3/16" full length keyway on
the bottom and the rear thread is 1/2-10 tpi acme. The casting has a
key on the bottom of the bore 1" in from the left end. It appears
like it seats in a 5/16" drilled hole, but there is no clue how this
hole was drilled from inside. There is no corresponding external
patched hole and a look inside above the key shows no patch so it
must have been from below in the rib under the neck which has rough
grinding marks showing thru the paint. I can shoot pics if needed.
RichD (8433) |
| Rich I've
saved quite a few pictures off ebay. Like you say it is not apparent
how the key is installed. Anyone have any good ideas? What is the
size of the keyway? On the pictures it looks about 1/16". I'm also
assuming the 1/2 acme is left hand. One other question. Does the
plug/bearing on the right hand end screw into the tailstock or is it
pinned? If it screws in what are the threads? I've finished the
pattern for the base and will be casting in aluminum this weekend.
The pattern can also be used for the final CI base. I haven't
decided whether to make the aluminum tailstock look like the SB part
or just make something that is functional and easy to cast. John (8436) |
| John, Yes the
thread is LH and the key/keyway are 3/16" . The bushing for the rt
end of the screw is threaded 1.125-16 tpi and the wheel is taper
pinned to the end. There is more . Will send later. Rich (8438) |
| I have several
tailstocks here; one of them there's absolutely no way to tell,
another one looks like the hole was drilled up from underneath then
plugged and ground so the plug doesn't show, the third has a bigger
flat pad where the hole would be on the bottom, kind of a 'web'
between the metal around the ram bore and the metal forming the
vertical support...definitely 2 different casting patterns although
other than that pad they're the same, not a radical difference like
a 9 vs. a 10K casting. My guess is they took a drill through for the
pin and then one of those needle nose right-angle milling heads [like
a quillmaster I think they're called] to mill the key slot
inside...or maybe a slotting head? If you're making your own, and
the purpose of the key is to stop the ram from rotating, does it
have to be on the bottom? Or, if you drilled down through the top,
you'd have your key hole and your oiler hole both with one drilling
operation. (8439) |
| Lever operated
tailstock for 9" lathe |
| Does
anyone have a drawing or parts breakdown for the above? I would like
to build one for my South Bend and can't figure out the spindle from
the picture in the catalog. I'd be happy to pay photo copy and
mailing costs if anyone can help. Hugh (8510) |
| Hugh I have several
articles dealing with tailstock mods posted here including two that
illustrate hand lever operation.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mlathemods/files/TailstockMods/
JWE (8512) |
| A fellow at the
place where I work has one of those things that he doesn't want. I
will send you his email adress tomorrow.Its on my desk at work. RC
(8521) |
| Here is a link to a
scan of an article in Popular Mechanics from the late forties or so
describing how to fabricate a lever:
http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTools/lathe_projects/tailstock/lathetailstock.jpg
(8523) |
| Help in
centering tailstock |
| I recently changed
my headstock. I am trying to center the tailstock to the headstock I
inserted a MT3 to MT2 adapter into the spindle. I inserted a MT2 to
3/8 end mill holder. This (conveniently) takes the adapter on my
test indicator. The tailstock has a "dead" center in it. I can
adjust the left-to-right with the two tailstock adjusting screws. It
appears that the tailstock is about 0.007" low. Is it permissible to
use brass shim stock?. It there some other way to adjust it? Am I
missing something? Is the procedure ok? The "How to run a lathe"
Book sees to tell you to just adjust to the points on two centers to
line it up. This seems to be very inaccurate. Especially with my
eyesight. I would need a 50 power microscope to get within a few
thousands. Jim (10170) |
| Jim, Stick a
magnetic indicator stand to a face plate or the face of a 3 jaw
chuck screwed onto the spindle. Set up a DTI to bear on the diameter
of the center in the tailstock (or the bore). Rotate the HS spindle
by hand to show how the TS is aligned. Interposing shims between the
TS bedplate and the body should work ok. RichD (10171) |
| Jim, You can put a
piece of flat metal between the points of your centers and the
misalignment will show up by the way the metal deflects. It kind of
magnifies the alignment errors. If it were not so late I could
probably give you the amount of deflection on the end of the flat
stock depending on the distance from the centers, sines and tangents
and stuff but you get the idea. Shims are OK. A microscope and
sewing needles works, too. Glen (10174) |
| Tailstock
centering |
| I bought a 1944
model A and have been fighting one problem after another. I have
reset the spindle bearings, replaced a bushing in the gear box etc
etc etc. I am now down to two problems if someone can help. #1,
tailstock center is lower than the headstock. I shimmed it up and it
is close, but is there an easy way to know when it is correct? #2 I
have an American made Skinner 3 jaw that seems to be in good shape
but the jaws are out. I did all the stuff I know and the runout was
reduced. It was still excessive so I turned a big thick ring true
and expanded the outside of the jaws against it and used a toolpost
grinder to true the insides of the jaws. It was late and I put a
piece od rod in and it seemed true. Today I chucked a machined piece
of stock and it was out by .010. What do I do next? Did I grind the
jaws wrong? max (10178) |
| Jeff: Please instruct me in VERTICAL centering of a
tailstock. My "center-indicator" strip leans approximately 15^ to
the right, telling me that the tailstock center is too low.
Johnny
(10191) |
| 9 Inch SBL
Tailstock Spindle |
| Dave, My part
list shows PT201NR1 as the part number for the tailstock spindle on
the 9" lathes. Gib screws are part number: 122 x 444 which cross
references to a 12-28 x 1-1/16" slotted cup point set screw. Cross
feed nut depends on whether you have a taper attachment or not. Webb (10935) |
| Webb, I think I need part number AS65NK1 for a
non-taper attachment equipped lathe and a 1.75" dial (as seen on
page 10 of the Army Tech Pub I had mentioned. I'll send my want list
to Rose with the serial number of the lathe and code number on my
saddle. Dave
(10939) |
| Dave, The 1.75
diameter graduated collars came in two type: standard (0-99 grad.s)
(AS64NK2) and direct reading (0-199 grad.s) (AS1266NK2). I noticed
something. In my parts manual, Form 902D Section 1 11-15-64, it
lists the part number for the non-taper cross slide nut as: A665NK1.
Later in the book, Form 960C Section 1 11-15-64, the part number is:
AS65NK1. I assume that the latter part number is the correct one and
the former is a misprint. Anyone else noticed this?
Webb (10944) |
| Dave, How does one
cross reference the screw identification number to the actual size?
Bob (10953) |
| Bob, I'm not quite
sure what you mean. Once you identify your part in the exploded
view, take the number and look at the corresponding part number in
the manual. If it is a screw, bolt, etc., you can go to the link
identified in the "Files" section of this forum and go to
"Commercially Available Hardware Items - Form 1178.pdf". If you look
to the left of your screen you'll see a window with several links
starting with "Home", "Messages", etc Go to the "Files" section.
That will cross some of the fasteners over to commercially available
fasteners. I'm still trying to locate some of them that are
supposedly available commercially, with some difficulty. I hope this
helps. Feel free to write me directly if you would like. Dave
(10957) |
| Dave, You have
solved my problem. Bob (10960) |
| Like those very strange setscrews for the
cross slide! What, 12-24 or 10-24, or something. I had measured them
and searched several sources. I had hoped to find Nylon Insert types
so they would stay put, but that was futile.
(10962) |
| If you are talking
about the setscrews holding the jibs in the dovetails, they are
#12's and standard items. I just got a couple for myself with the
intention of using one with a welded in T as a carriage lock. I had my
choice of set screw or Allen head cap screw. You'll probably need to
go to a fasteners site and not just a hardware store. Dave (10969) |
| Rose,
would you please look up: A665NK1 AS665NK1 AS65NK1 and tell us if
any of these numbers are valid, what each one is, and for which
application it applies? Anthony
(10983) |
| I think the ones on
my SB13 are 12-28. I know it's an NS thread, taps are available, but
for clean up I just made a tap to chase the threads. Course you need
access to another lathe to do this, but it only takes maybe 15
minutes. Stan (10996) |
| The correct part
number is AS65NK1. This is the crossfeed nut for a 9" or 10K lathe
without a taper attachment. Rose Marvin (11025) |
| Stuck center
in tailstock ,10k |
| I have a stuck
center in my 10k project lathe tailstock. It will not back out when
I retract the spindle. Now, I have the spindle out of the tailstock
and soaking in Kroll oil hoping to loosen. Anybody have any other
ideas? Jim (11553) |
| My tailstock centre
doesn't back out either, I keep a thin aluminum drift ready, and run
the spindle right out and tap the centre out that way each time.
Same thing for my tailstock chuck. Len (11556) |
| I had the
same problem with an old lathe of unknown origin. I did not want to
scar up the 100+ year old machine so I made a drift tube to sit the
spindle on ,and drove the center out with a piece of rod stock and a
hammer. When I got the center out I determined that it was bent. I
also soaked it before doing the hammer thing. If you find something
obvious like a bent center, your probably home free. Otherwise the
spindle bore should be checked carefully, to avoid a repeat
performance. RC
(11581) |
| Most centers don't
have a self ejecting tang. Either drill and tap the end to take a
small bolt or if you're not comfortable doing that put a small piece
of barstock in the tailstock before fitting the center, it's easy to
fish out afterwards with a small magnet. Bernard (11591) |
| Jim, how about a
short piece of barstock inserted through the screw hole, then use
the screw to press the center out? Jeff(11597) |
| Tailstock
offset |
| Today
I turned one of the shafts with a collar on each end to check when
returning the tailstock to center position. I was amazed at how
sensitive it was when adjusting the set over screws. Is there a
secret to getting it to only move a tiny bit? seems like I get
within a couple thou, and then it moves a whole bunch? I release the
lockdown and backoff the front screw (if that is the dir needed) and
then tighten the back with a dial indicator against the tailstock.
maybe I should not backoff the lockdown all the way? Dee
(14887) |
| Dee, First make
sure the tailstock moves freely, no dirt or burrs and have way oil
on the surfaces. One trick I do, which may or may not be correct, is
to bring each adjusting screw up against the tailstock but not tight
and then loosen the hold down. Then I tighten the appropriate
adjusting screw. This gets a movement of just a few thou. The
surfaces typically don't get oiled but I open my tailstock and oil
the surface if I am going to use it just so I don't get choppy
movement. I am a firm believer of plenty of oil, sometimes to
excess. JP (14898) |
| Tailstock
clearing saddle |
| I
have been running southbend lathes in my gunsmith business for over
30 years and owned several but this is a first. I bought a used
heavy 10, wide range quick change gear box with a 42 inch overall
bed length, a 1977 vintage with flame hardened bed in what appears
excellent condition. This is a short machine about eighteen inches
between centers most of the time with a chuck in use so you need all
your bed you have to use. We had this a couple of years before we
started using it and the first time I ran the tailstock up to the
chuck area I noticed something binding at the saddle. The base of
the tailstock which is vee cut on the bottom hits the saddle and
wont clear to move up in between the two fingers of the saddle
pointing to the tailstock of the lathe. The saddle is also vee cut
so it doesn't move front to rear and neither does the base of the
tailstock, so was this built this way and if so does anyone know
why. Or was the saddle maybe reground or replaced in the past and
not properly fit. I can grind the finger of the saddle and clear
some off the base of the tailstock and fix the problem without
anything being bothered but does anyone know possibly why this may
have happened?
(14933) |
| Get the "unit numbers" from the shipping records of the machine
and see if they match the ones on the machine you have. These numbers
are on the individual components, three digit typically. You may have
a frankenlathe. RC
(14934) |
| RC, Just for info.
From a 10 heavy owner. I have a SB lathe that was bought in 1939.
The invoice called it a 9" Gunsmith Lathe. It doesn't match anything
I have found. It seems a lot more like a 10 Heavy but I don't know
much about them. I have used it for years and I always thought it
was a standard 9" until I tried to fit a quick-change gear box on it
and it didn't fit. Let me describe it and if you can compare it with
yours you might be able to tell me what matches. 1. three flat belt
drive (the steps are 1 1/4" wide) 2. The spindle has a 1 3/8" bore
to admit gun barrels. 3. The spindle head is 2 1/4 x 8 threads 4. The
spindle taper is (I believe) a #5 MT and the collets are 5C. 5. The
large back-gear has 63 teeth (DP = 14) 6. The gear train gears are
1/2" thick and DP=16 7. The distance between the outside V's on the
bed is 6 5/16" (Is this the same as your 10 Heavy?, it is wider than
a standard 9:) 8. Spindle bearings are solid with shims. 9. Spindle
centerline to bed is 4.75" (bigger than a 9 but not big enough to
swing a 10) 10. The lead screw is 3/4 x 8 11. Last but not least,
the three mounting holes for the quick-change box are spaced (from
the left hole) 1 1/4 inch and 3 1/4 inch (from left hole) I have
been looking for a quick change box that would fit. Now, My tail
stock will slide right up against the saddle. tailstock clearing
saddle (14937) |
| I have heard of a
"Heavy 9" that looks just like a Heavy 10 but there are 2 Heavy 10's
: the one looks like a 13" (with the 87 zillion pound door) and the
Heavy 10 that I have with the sheet metal bench with the hoop
looking legs Sorry to be less than definitive with my nomenclature
but , as the purpose of language is communication. (14938) |
| If it would help in
your diagnosis, On my heavy 10" (1957, but claimed to have all
current subassemblies) the tailstock base clears the wings of the
saddle by perhaps 0.1" on each side (by eye), and the width of the
tailstock base is a few thousandths under 4.8" (by calipers). Frank
(14940) |
| I have a 1959 Heavy
10 with the 87 zillion pound door. The tailstock clears the saddle
without any problem. The base on the tailstock is narrower than the
top of the tailstock. It makes a smooth curved profile, not a step.
The bottom piece of the tailstock on yours may be from another
lathe. Level the lathe first to less than .003"/ft across the bed to
eliminate any twist and then check the tailstock to spindle
alignment. JP (14947) |
| Frank I
finally figured out at least in my mind. The lathe had been in a
school and was a 1968 instead of 77 that is the other heavy ten I
have and I am pretty sure that the lathes tailstock was probably
lost and replaced by the fellow who I bought it from. I removed and
machined the base of the tailstock and got it going but I had never
ran into that before. The rest of the lathe is pretty much mint
except for it has some adjustments out of whack like the head stock
bearings need set and such but such is life. I do have another
question though for any later ten owners. Under the front of the
headstock under it toward the operator or gearbox is a silver shim
about 8 inches long screwed down to the bed the headstock sits on
and on the 1977 model bed I have there is no place for one. Any idea
what when or where or why for they did this. Maybe just on shorter
tool room lathes which is what my 68 model is and not on the 77
which is a 4.5 ft mod. Grumpy
(14951) |
| There isn't
supposed to be any shims under the headstock, it should sit on the
bed directly. Like the tailstock it was probably put there to
compensate for the lathe being set up out of level or a change in
the tailstock. The headstock and saddle may now be out of alignment,
as they are fitted together at the factory. I would remove it, level
the lathe and modify the tailstock to fit if needed. JP
(14955) |
| Tailstock
taper question |
| I am a complete
novice to lathes and metal turning but have been reading up before I
start. I have a Jacobs chuck which fits my SB lathe headstock quite
snug. But when I put it into the tailstock it shoulders before the
taper interferes. This means that the whole chuck would turn if I
tried drilling with it. Does this mean that the internal taper is
worn and if so what does one do about it? Skimming 2mm off the end
of the tail stock would give extra clearance and would no doubt make
it function but this would remove some of the vernier markings. Am I
missing something obvious that seasoned operators take for granted
as common knowledge?
(16225) |
| Well I'm no expert
either but with my setup I too notice that it didn't seem to fit
just right. But all you need to do is run the tailstock out a bit
and it's OK. Then to remove the taper crank it back in and the taper
pops out. If this is not the way it's done I'm sure someone will
tell us :) Mike
(16227) |
| I had the same
problem and just cranked the adjuster out about an inch and it
seated just fine.
(16229) |
| Thanks for your
input. I understand where you're coming from and yes backing off
does eject the taper, but even with the tailstock spindle removed
from the tailstock I can't get the chuck to seat in the taper as it
hits at the shoulder first. Anyone else got any suggestions I really
don't want to butcher the tailstock spindle.
(16233) |
| Haven't followed
the whole thread here, but it sounds like your taper is/has been
reamed too big/deep. Replace the spindle, face off the front, or
bore it oversize and sleeve it down. Scott
Logan (16235) |
| Would removing a
fraction of an inch off the small end of the drill chuck arbor morse
taper give you enough to bite? It would still fit the headstock, but
just be a bit shorter so that it doesn't bottom out in the
tailstock. Dave
(16237) |
| The headstock is a
shortened MT3 taper. The tailstock is an MT2 taper. If the taper on
the chuck fits the headstock, it shouldn't fit the tailstock. I am
assuming we're talking about a 9 inch or 10K, if not, the tapers
will be different, but I think they will still have a different
taper on the headstock than the tailstock. Glen (16239) |
| Your taper is to
big for tailstock go down one size. If it fit your headstock it is
to big for tailstock. My old 21" has a bushing that fits in the
headstock to take a #4 morse taper.
Duane (16240) |
| Duane is right I
didn't read the post correctly. The tailstock doesn't have the same
taper as the h-stock. If a M-3 goes in the head it'll take an M-2 for
the tail.
(16241) |
| No, each Morse
taper is different. They vary from .598"/ft to .625"/ft The #2 and
#3 are close but you need a friction fit for the entire length for
it to operate properly. JP (16242) |
| Point taken. #9 SB
should take a #2 morse in tailstock. Duane (16243) |
| But if you removed
the material from the tang (with the given the chuck arbor has a
tang), wouldn't it work?
(16245) |
| Yes, but shouldn't
have too. Turn arbor in tailstock see if there is a slot in there
for the tang to go into. If not cut tang off. Duane (16246) |
| No, you shouldn't
have to. I agree with Scott Logan in that the spindle taper is
oversized. I think his suggestions to correct the problem are ideal.
But if you're on a budget like many of us, I would think cutting off
or shortening the tang might do in the interim. If you have to
remove the tang completely, I'd be concerned about removing the
chuck after use. For my live center I built a spacer that goes over
the spindle and presses against the back of the center. Works like a
charm. I've read where others have drilled and tapped the end of the
taper for a machine screw to act as the tang. My concern with using
the spacer I made on a drill chuck mounted on an arbor with a JT end
would be the chuck would come off the arbor and the arbor to stay
inside the spindle. Maybe you could just start taking a portion of
the tang off at a time until it fits. Maybe they'll be enough tang
left to kick out the arbor. If not, go from there. Dave
(16247) |
| It would most
likely wobble a bit. The tailstock doesn't lock the tang like a
morse taper drill arbor. If it slips you begin to wear the tailstock
socket unevenly. It would take a lot of slipping to ruin it but none
the less that is where you would be heading. Morse to Jacobs arbors
are cheap, it shouldn't be a big deal to get the correct one.
JP (16248) |
| The tang does serve
to kick the arbor out. If the spindle is an odd size, like the Heavy
10 you can make up an adapter. I picked up an unhardened 3 to 5
morse sleeve and recut the outside to the correct size and taper for
the spindle. Its easy to get the correct size if your not sure what
it is. Get some 'Cerrobend' and cast it. This material is metal and
melts in boiling water so you won't harm the spindle heat treating.
Use a double boiler arrangement to melt it. Use a Pyrex measuring
cup. Plug the ends with a wad of cloth, pour the Cerrobend in. I a
few minutes you will have an exact replica of the spindle hole. Make
an adapter from the measurements. Cerrobend is a fusable link alloy
if you want to do a search on it. McMaster and Enco both carry it,
MSC may as well. JP (16249) |
| Before cutting or
reaming or defacing any part of the lathe, you should identify each
of the tapers that you are dealing with. Get a chart from the
literature and use a micrometer to measure the male taper. The inside
tapers are morse on South Bend lathes, but the headstock tapers are
abbreviated. Are you using a sleeve in the headstock when you fit
that chuck arbor in there. That sleeve could be for a jarno
taper. Jarno tapers look like morse tapers, but they don't fit. A
micrometer will tell you. If you can find other tapered arbors that
are marked you can use them to id the spindle tapers. Look in how to
run a lathe to determine the taper sizes for your lathe. Then verify
them by measurement or with a known arbor. RC (16250) |
| No Dave the problem
is the chuck itself hits the spindle before the taper engages
properly.
(16251) |
| You
guys are brilliant. First thing in the morning off I go to the
engineers shop and see if I can find out exactly what I'm talking
about. Seems to me that it could be : the wrong size taper for the
t/stock the wrong kind of taper for the t/stock needing a sleeve to
adapt it needing an arbor to adapt it needing sleeving if its none of
the above needing much more reading! As I get more knowledgeable I'll
be able to talk in Lathe terms so that you'll all understand what the
hell I'm prattling on about. Walter. (16253) |
| Are we talking
about the taper not fitting in the headstock spindle or in the
tailstock quill? If the shoulder of the chuck itself hits the quill
(the part that moves in and out with the handwheel rotation) the the
taper is too small, maybe a MT1 like my Sherline headstock taper.
But I thought you said it fit snugly in the headstock, which should
make it too big for the tailstock. I hope your engineer friend can
straiten this taper caper out for you. Glen (16257) |
| That is right way to do it. On standard morse tapers (not on
most lathe tail stocks and head stocks) there is a slot near the
narrow end. You drive a wedge into the slot to pop out the taper
drill, tool whatever has the matching morse male taper. Otherwise it
would be impossible or difficult to remove the morse taper. On a
lathe you can use a brass or bronze (or broom stick) to put into the
spindle from the rear and knock out the headstock morse taper. On
the tail stock you crank the tailstock ram in and there is a
projection that knocks out the taper. John
(16258) |
| writes: Anyone else got any suggestions I really don't want to
butcher the tailstock spindle. Don't do that until you try other
tapers in the tail stock, Morse taper to Jacob taper are fairly
inexpensive compared to fixing a butchered up tail stock ram. John
(16259) |
| Don't cut the
tailstock. It should be a #2 Morse taper. Look on the chuck and it
will be marked as to what the jacobs taper is for the chuck. Get an
arbor that matches the chuck taper and a #2 Morse taper. It should
be under $10. The tailstock has to be moved out about 3 turns to put
the assembly in and hold. When you bring the tailstock back all the
way the chuck and arbor should pop out. The arbor should measure
about .6 at the tang and .7 near the chuck. If what you have fits in
your spindle snugly then you may have a sleeve still in the spindle.
The 9" lathe should have a #3 morse taper in the spindle. You may
have a #3 to #1 sleeve in the spindle. This would make the arbor you
have fit into the spindle and bottom in the tailstock. Take a look
and see. JP (16261) |
| Go to the drawers
where the large drills are stored. These drills have morse taper
shanks. Look for the morse taper sockets used to adapt between the
sizes. They have a slot in them and are generally marked on the tail
end as to what they are. Usually there are a bunch of them thrown in
with the drills. With an assortment of those sockets you should be
able to sort out the mystery in a few minutes. RC (16274) |
| Tailstock
rebuild? |
| I am
currently in the middle of the clean/strip/paint/rebuild of my SB9a.
I have had many problems with the tailstock since I bought this
machine, and now am trying to decide what to do as a repair. The
current situation is this: The base was worn .005 at the front (
both ways) so I machined this straight on my shaper, and scraped it
for bearing, planning to bond a .005" shim to bring it up to correct
height. I placed the ram in the headstock chuck, and indicated it.
With the bolt removed and the top and bottom of the tailstock
assembled loosely. I slid the ram into the casting and snugged up
the lock. Top casting is now hanging on the lathe spindle, and to my
way of thinking should be pretty well aligned. I measured the gap
between the top and bottom castings and find that the gap is .025+
at the back and .020+/- at the front. SO... what now?? I have
thought about bonding shimstock on the bottom casting to bring it up
to the correct height, or I could inject moglice into the gap. Does
anyone have experience with moglice? Does anyone know how tight a
fit the tailstock ram should be in the casting? Can anyone tell me
how to get the key out of the bore for the ram? Pete
(16980) |
| When I got my Heavy
Ten Toolroom lathe every thing was in super shape except the
tailstock. I suspect it was not the original because it had a very
thick shim and it was still about .020" below center. I guess I
could shim it up and use it, but everything is in such good shape I
hate to have a heavily shimmed up part. I decided to call Rose at SB
and she quoted $ 300 for just the base not including shipping. Even
if I gagged and paid it I could not be sure the centers would line
up or need shimming or worst yet machine some off. Since the base is
mainly a rectangular block I decided to fabricate one using my 12"
Sheldon Shaper. I could have gotten a steel plate for not much
money, but decided to go for cast iron. I got an oversized piece of
continuous cast iron (excellent machining) from an ad on the net.
Paid $ 40 for it but found out later that continuous cast iron is
made by one US mfg. and they sell thru a lot of suppliers. Found one
a few miles from me that I could have driven over and picked it up
cheaper than $ 40. Anyway I machined the V and flat on my shaper
after measuring the depth of the V. In order to keep everything
parallel I put on my vice a sacrificial CI block and machined it
flat, thus taking out any error due to the tilting table, wear or
anything. After shaping one side of my new CI block I screwed it
down on the sacrificial block. I shaped the V and flat to my
measurements of the SB base. Unscrewed and blued my bed. Found it not
exactly fitting so bolted it back for a correction cut. After the
third try one side of the V blued nicely and the other blued part
way. Close enough, so I am going to scrape to fit. Then I plan to
shape the other side to the correct center line. If you plan to get
the CI I used go to Google and type in continuous cast iron and find
if they have a local supplier. Walt (17001) |
| Are you referring
to Metals Express? JP (17006) |
| Tail stock
set-over adjustment |
| I was
wondering if anyone had some suggestions as to how to accurately
adjust the tail set-over on my 9" Junior. I was playing with a 6"
long test plug in a 3-jaw (no tail stock support) and can take a
finish cut that tapers about .0005 which I though was pretty good. I
center-drilled it and installed a dead center in the tail stock and
measured taper were not acceptable. If I adjust the upper tailstock
set-over screws, I can get it as close as .0015, but my next
adjustment WAY overshoots, or pushes the diameter the other way
(???) which makes no sense. I guess a test bar would be the way to
go. Andy
(17037) |
| Andy, I test bar
will get you close. Probably, a bit better than you are now. To get
the lathe lined out, you will need a test cut piece. Do this between
centers. A 12 inch piece would do. Take a cut to true up the
diameter for a 1 inch length by the headstock. Make sure the tool
tip is off the part. Stop the lathe. Don't move the cross slide.
Take the part out and move the apron back, so you can cut the piece
at the tail of the lathe. Put back in the part and take a cut.
Measure the difference and adjust the tailstock 1/2 as much. Repeat
till the diameters are the same. I see two problems you might be
having. First could be you are adjusting the total difference in
diameter instead of 1/2. That would be good news, as you could
easily correct this. Next one might be the tailstock itself. Check
to see if the quill in it has any slop. If so, then its going to be
hard to get any even results. And then when you lock the quill, it
will deflect forward. You could adjust with the quill locked, but
this will only work for that length. Any variation in length of the
part or depth of counter sinks will affect the taper. Tom (17049) |
| For a start put
centers in both the head stock and tail stock. Pinch a thin steel
rule between the centers, if the rule is at right angles to the bed
your tailstock is aligned (at that position, at least). A good hint
is to use two wrenches one on each adjusting bolt head. As you
loosen one, tighten the other one at the same time. (same thing for
centering in a four jaw chuck) otherwise you are chasing the
position all over the place.
(17060) |
| Heavy 10
tailstock adjustment |
| I recently acquired
a heavy 10 and am working on getting things adjusted. I'm a novice,
and after reading all I can about setup, I am still puzzled. When I
place centers in both head and tailstocks and slide the tips
together, the tailstock center is about .025 lower that headstock
centre. I cannot see or feel any wear in the ways; certainly no
groves or ridges, and when I run a test gauge mounted on the
crosslide along the top of a long straight bar, I observe a steady,
smooth drop as I move the crosslide from headstock toward
tailstock. No bumps or signs of uneven wear; just a steady increase
in distance. My conclusion is that the ways are just fine, but the
tailstock lies about 0.025 lower than headstock I see the
adjustment screws to move tailstock crossways for taper cuts, etc.
but no adjustment for up and down. Am I missing something here? What
is the remedy? Dave
(20633) |
| Dave, Sounds like
you are going to have to shim up between the base and the top
section of your tailstock. Slip a shim under the front and rear and
check it out. If it solves the problem ,GREAT! If not you will have
to look a bit deeper into the problem. (20634) |
| Dave Is it possible
that you might have a tailstock from a 9" junior on your machine. A
lot of the heavy 10s came with bed turrets and at some time in the
past a machinery dealer in a hurry might have just put any tailstock
he could find quickly on the machine in place of the turret to make
a sale. The 9" turret I have came cheap because it had a spacer
plate bolted to it to raise it for a 13" machine. Took off the
spacer plate and saved a couple of hundred dollars because the
dealer did not know what it was. JWE (20635) |
| On my 9 inch south
bend, the bottom of the tailstock was worn aprox that amount. I cut
shimstock to fit between the tailstock where it separates, sweeped
it with di and presto I was at proper height. freddy
(20637) |
| Tailstock
Spindle Tread |
| Does anyone know
the thread size and pitch of the 9A tailstock spindle? I am trying
to repair one that has been abused. It looks like about 1/2-13 but
does not look quite right. I could always tap it whatever size and
make a new threaded shaft, but would prefer to put it back to
original. Ron
(20713) |
| Ron, It's a
1/2in-10tpi left-hand Acme. They are not real hard to turn, I've made
a few. Tex (20717) |
| It may interest
some users to know that Green Bay Mfg.
www.greenbaymfgco.com has an
impressive number of sizes of acme threaded rod and nuts in their
catalog, most of it available immediately or in stock. I have a
small LLC corp that I buy and make inquiries under, so they sent me
some of their sales information which might not be available to
individual buyers. The 1/2 x 10 tpi left-hand rod is part number
1001-16 (1018 steel) for 3.94 per foot; 1005-16 ( I believe 4140
steel) for 5.97 per foot. There are various round, square, and hex
shaped nuts available in this thread as well in bronze and grey
iron. I have not ordered from them yet but I plan to soon but there
is no indication of a minimum order, although it is realistic to
expect one. It still might be cheaper than a new screw made locally
or bought from LeBlond for those of us not confident to make our
own. Bill (20727) |
| Lever
tailstock |
| Does anyone have
any information on the lever action tailstock. Basically I am looking
for exploded drawings or pictures, etc. I have an extra tailstock
for my 9 inch model A and would like to try converting it to lever
action. The last one I saw on Ebay went for $300.00 +. Jim (20729) |
| Jim, I have one
that a machinist did a nice job on sitting downstairs. I could try
and send you pics if it would help. Paul(20731) |
| Paul, I would
appreciate it. Jim (20746) |
| Jim: I have a
copy of this in parts break down from a 1965 parts list. If this
would help we can e-mail it to you. Dave
(20782) |
| Dave, I would
appreciate it very much. I am late in my response and I thank you.
Jim (20914) |
| I have one of those
tailstocks, I can send you pictures or dimensions if you would like.
Let me know. It is actually a modification of the regular tailstock
so you could probably duplicate it. (20926) |
| Tailstock
Quill Honing |
| The inside of my
tailstock has a small bit of damage in it, and my #2 morse taper
centers don't quite fit snug. Can I take a brake cylinder hone to
the inside to clean it up? (What is the preferable method?)
(21218) |
| There are morse
reamers in various grades (rough, medium, fine). using a fine reamer
would probably be the way to go. But.. as usual these things can be
pricey. I know ENCO carries them. Don't remember the price. If you
are friends with a machine shop you might be able to borrow one,
that's what I did. (21219) |
| We use to use a
tapered reamer to clean them up. That might not be available to you
though. Don't know if a machine shop around you would have one or
not. You could try the hone and if it don't work, then find a
reamer. Maybe use a stone first to take off the high spots.
Tom (21220) |
| I bought a set of
finishing reamers #0 through 3 from a guy on eBay. They are new
reamers and pretty reasonably priced. The 4 piece set cost $90.
Singles are $25 to $35.
http://stores.ebay.com/XKUT_W0QQsspagenameZl2QQtZkm
Check out his store. No connection, just a satisfied customer. Glen
(21221) |
| The tailstock
bore |
| The quill of a
tailstock is nothing more then a cylinder with a tapered
hole. Sending it out to a shop that is properly tooled for this kind
of operation may be the way to go. The thing is over time rust, chips
and poor handling can cause problems. Tools that slip cause a galling
action to the bore. Buying the right tool can be expensive if used
incorrectly. All you need to do is take out the high spots. Taking too
much may really damage the true axis of the bore. I'd get a 2ond
opinion from SBL. After all they made it. Perhaps they will clean it
up for a fair price. Then you will have a re-conditioned piece from
the maker. Ron
(21223) |
| I have also seen a
tool that can be bought for no. 1 or no. 2 tapers that allow you to
do this clean up at home! They might be on Horror Freight or maybe
even e-bay. This should be cheaper than sending the unit out!!! just
my two cents worth. bill (21261) |
| I think I'll buy
the #2 and #3 and all you guys can send me the quills and headstocks
you want reamed. It should take about 2 weeks to pay for top of the
line parts as much as we discuss it here. It will go from cheap to
more expensive every time I do one. Guys in first get the best
price. Do not buy Cheap reamers! They are a waste of money and will
not "true" the bore. Paul(21265) |
| Hmmm, I'm thinking
about what Paul wrote. I know that line reaming a bore is a finishing
job once the initial hole is bored. The reamer is more about sizing
then truing an axis. So it would seem reasonable that any quill that
was originally bored can be cleaned up with a tapered
reamer. Provided it runs fairly true in another machine. Any thoughts
on this? regards, Ron
(21272) |
| I use to do the
reaming in the original lathe. I'd put a center in the headstock.
With a crescent wrench, I'd turn the reamer a bit. I would turn the
wheel on the tailstock to feed the tailstock spindle forward. Not to
much pressure. Doesn't take much to clean it up. This is assuming a
good alignment of the tailstock sleeve, tailstock bore (and fit) to
headstock. Also have to be aware that the tailstock has a cross pin
or something to keep the morse taper attachments from turning.
Tom (21275) |
| Sort of related
query.... Has anyone got any tips for modifying centers without
"tongues" to self eject from the tailstock? I can see several ways
of doing this, but I'm sure someone will have come up with a "best"
way. Currently, I remove the whole quill and drift the centre out
with an aluminum drift. Anything with a tongue on the end self
ejects OK. Len
(21276) |
| You might think
about putting an extension on the back of the center about the same
length at the 'tongue' is. Basically as I remember, the end of the
'tongue' contacts the thread part of the tailstock. This 'ejects'
the center or other morse taper item. Since your center isn't that
long then , or I should say the diameter is also too big, it can't
contact the screw or threads to eject. So try extending the length
with a diameter that the same as the width of the 'tongue'. Tom (21278) |
| I have one MT-2
item which came with a screw in the rear (Non tounge). This needed
to be adjusted to self eject. As I remember it was a live center. I
recently bought a small 3 jaw chuck, this was non tounged and would
not self eject. The MT-2 part was threaded into the chuck. I removed
it held the threaded portion on a collet, drilled and tapped the MT
taper end, 1/4-20 and used a flat head screw. It now ejects fine.
Jim B. (21280) |
| Drilling and
tapping for a small socket head cap screw is my solution for
extending the length of a MT tang. (21282) |
| Sorry, I hit send
accidentally with my last... thanks to everyone for some good
suggestions. Len
(21284) |
| Len, I always
thought that the extension on the end of a taper shank was called a
tang. so, I looked it up in American machinist handbook and
discovered that your terminology "tongue" is correct and we can
dispense with the quotes. a lesson learned for me. joe (21285) |
| Joe, they say that
the only thing that divides the Americans and Brits is a common
language!... I just called it a tongue without actually knowing, and
I guess tang is just as usable, even if not terminologically
correct. Len (21287) |
| I have added a
brass piece on several centers so they self eject. They have turned
out to be different lengths for different pieces so they all eject
at about the same spot. (21289) |
| Just a note; to be
'very' careful when reaming. Take only the amount of metal off that
cleans up the bore! It is truly amazing how taking off too much (no
matter how small) will allow a taper shank to go remarkably deep.
Ken (21300) |
| Tailstock #2MT
reamer revisited |
| I posted a question
some time ago about cleaning burrs from my tailstock, and the end
result was to use a finishing reamer. I am very new, and I am ready
to tackle this. In an ideal world I would chuck up the reamer in the
headstock and use the handwheel to feed the tailstock quill into the
reamer. During restoration of my (Heavy 10) lathe, I noticed that
the previous owner shimmed the tailstock. I still kept the shims,
but did not install them during assembly. I assume that the shims
were installed due to wear on the bed close to the headstock, or
that the tailstock is not the original, and doesn't match the
headstock. I don't have a headstock spindle adaptor (yet) so I can't
line up two dead centers between the headstock/tailstock to see how
far off they are. Now for my question: Since the alignment between
my headstock/tailstock is compromised, I need to find a better way
to clean up my tailstock quill. Enco sells a Morse Taper "Hand
Reamer". Do I just jamb it in the tailstock and spin it with a
wrench/Drill?? This seems too crude, and maybe someone has some
better advice. By the way I can see a (brand-new) #2 live center
move in the tailstock under a load, which leads me to believe that I
don't have a perfect fit, and need to clean up the tailstock via a
reamer.
(23232) |
| The rotating center
(slang is live-center) is absolutely fixed on axis. As far as the
work goes, it would not see any difference between a solid and
rotation center. The ball bearings are not there to allow for any
mis-alignment. You really need to get the tailstock aligned
properly. As for the hand reamer, it should work. A #2, MT finishing
reamer would cost about $30.00 from a supplier. I had bought one a
few years ago and offered to pass it around the 7x10minilathe group,
but it got lost and never made it home. I too would like to use one
to clean up a tailstock. Depending on the part, I might make a
holder-wrench for the tailstock sleeve, chuck the reamer in the
3-jaw and slide the sleeve over the reamer. Then use the carriage to
put some feed pressure on it and rotate the spindle by hand. Dave
(23234) |
| Chris, I think
first you need to determine where the movement in the live
center/tail stock is. If its between the live center and the quill,
then yes you will need to ream it. Also, check between the quill and
the tailstock housing. I wouldn't use a chuck to align the reamer.
Or if you do, turn the taper/angle on a piece of steel rod and don't
remove it from the chuck. If you have collets, then that will hold a
piece of round stock to be turned also. Or hold a center with a
straight body. Then you can check the alignment by eye. I would
roughly align by eye, then use a test bar and a dial indicator. Both
from the side and from the top. You can also use about a 12 inch
piece of round stock and turn it between centers to see the taper.
Then adjust the tailstock to take out the taper. Only after you have
aligned the tailstock to the lathe would I ream it. Tom (23235) |
| Chris Mount your
dial indicator on a faceplate or chuck. If you have a good MT arbor
mount it in the tailstock and take readings on it as you rotate the
headstock chuck by hand. Adjust the tailstock with shims and the
adjusting screws to get a consistent reading at the top and both
sides of the arbor. This will get the arbor end of the quill lined
up but won't guarantee that the quill itself is horizontal. Fully
extend the quill and with the test dial mounted on the xslide check
the top of the quill along its length and shim as necessary. You
might have to repeat the operation a few times to get everything
lined up. You should be able to hand feed the reamer. Unless the
socket is in really poor shape the reamer will line its self up. You
should be only taking a skim cut anyway. John (23237) |
| Chris, Now is
the time to get old fashioned. Use the reamer with a hand wrench,
like a tee handle tap wrench to clean out any burrs or high spots.
Use a known good #2MT something and some markym dye to find how you
are progressing. It is too easy to cut too much with a machine feed,
do it by hand and take your time. You can align the headstock to the
tail stock when you are done. Chuck up a piece of round stock and
machine a point on the end and leave it in the chuck. Then align the
tailstock to it with a center in the tailstock. I am assuming that
the lathe has been checked for level before this alignment procedure
is done. JP (23238) |
| I agree. More than
likely just simple hand pressure with a reamer will clean up the MT
bore. Bill C.
(23239) |
| When I did my
drill press, the internal burrs were pretty hard. I found that
taking one good cut was enough and that there was no noticeable
increase in how deep the other tooling went. Dave
(23241) |
| I ordered a hand reamer, and some marking dye from Enco
this morning. Last night I mounted the work into the lathe with the
tailstock quill fully extended. While pushing on the work, I
measured the travel of the tailstock quill and the live center. The
Tailstock quill moved less than .003 The live center moved about
.010 (I was pushing pretty hard when measuring) I have not been able
to make chips without a lot of chatter. Hopefully this is will fix
the problem, and I can go onto learning. bill
(23252) |
| For all
measurements, I did have the lockdown engaged. Is .003 still
acceptable? (23269) |
| Need help on
10L tailstock base |
| I am making a new
base to replace my badly worn heavy 10 tailstock base. LeBlond wants
$300 for a new one, so I ordered a 6" square X 1" of Durabar (
continuous cast iron) and started cutting this nice stuff but found
getting the V depth right in relation to the flat is difficult. I
did find the unworn top and bottom are parallel so my thought is to
place a .250 dia pin in the V and measure down with a depth mike it
would be easy to duplicate a new one. Does anyone have a not to worn
base they could measure for me? Incidentally I got the Durabar from an
advertiser in HSM for $ 40 , but later in using Google I found the
manufacture of Durabar near Chicago. I am pretty sure you can't buy
small quantities from them they list many cities that stock there
products and I found one 15 miles from me near Grand Rapids,
Michigan. I am going to try my next buy by going directly there.
Walt
(23366) |
| If anyone helping
out Walt would also help me out by measuring the thickness of their
10L tailstock base, I would greatly appreciate it. I would like to
see if there was a variation in sizes since my lathe looked to be
all original but the tailstock sits .018" too low and the bed isn't
worn THAT much! Roy (23392) |
| My tailstock sits a
little low. I had considered milling the base down 1/4" or so and
making a spacer that I could just bolt to the base that had the same
profile as the original base. What do you think about that idea?
sbwest2002 (23454) |
| Kevin: If any of
that wear is in the "Vee" then you will have to mill it right out to
start again. What about a 1/8" cut off flats and vee and then
"Turcite Liners" ? You will of course need an accurate measurement
of an unworn vee to the flat in order to reference your finished
size. I might also add that you will need a measurement from the
side of the casting to the C/L of the Vee so you will probably have
to take clean-up skim off the side and measure from the side to the
centerline of the Vee. This also can be done on a mill with a dial
indicator or with a good depth mic by letting your rod or bar stick
out the end of the vee and a measurement to the edge of the bar plus
1/2 the diameter of the bar. Take as many reference measurements as
you can think of as you never know which can help you in locating
the finished surfaces correctly. Ron (23456) |
| By how much is it
low? Roy
(23458) |
| I read on another message site a few months ago about guys having
trouble with tailstocks slipping under load after Turcite or other
low friction materials were added to the base surfaces. The general
consensus seemed to be, don't do it, it makes the tailstock
difficult to lock in place. I have a 1940 era SB 10". After scraping
everything my tailstock was about .040" low. I shimmed between the
base and the upper part. When I need to offset the tailstock center
for tapers, I use an attachment that fits in the MT2 socket, so I
never need to offset the tailstock itself. Under those conditions,
the shims don't cause any problem.
(23460) |
| You can shim up
between base and tailstock. I did it successfully. sorry my English.
Capipio (23463) |
| It is .006 low. I
have it shimmed now but wanted something better. I figured that if I
had to offset the tailstock, it may mess with my shims.
Kevin (23464) |
| Mine was 0.008 in
front and 0.004 at wheel side. I did it with 1" x 3" shims. No
problem when offset for taper turning. Best wishes. Capipio (23471) |
| Tailstock
wrench |
| I have a 15/16
tail stock wrench- no casting number- just some gold paint in the
recess of the swan necked handle with a tapered hex hole . I need a
11/16 tail stock wrench for my 10K. Some one want to trade?
Darrell
(23684) |
| Darrell and anyone
else out there with tailstock wrench problems I found a solution
that I like much better than the factory wrench. I went to sears and
bought what they call a Stubby 7/ 8 open end box end wrench (heavy
10 size) and I think it is wonderful. You can put on the wrench at
twice as many points (12 point instead of 6 ) and they are really a
nice size wrench. I even use one on the quick change tool post which
also works with the same size as my H 10 tailstock nut. You should
try one in the size you need I think you will like it unless your
going for originality. Grumpy (23688) |
| Grumpy, thanks for
the idea. I have an extra flarenut wrench with a socket on both
ends, from which I amputated the unwanted other end box with chop
saw. Ground the cut handle smooth and it works great.
Darrell (23700) |
| Tailstock? off
list |
| Fred, while you
are convalescing, would you happen to own or know of a South Bend
Lathe 9" model "Lever Tailstock". I would like to buy one or ask a
few questions regarding the lever assembly dimensions. I'm prepared
to make the parts to convert a standard tailstock to a lever style. Rich (24301) |
| The 9" Boxford uses
a lever stock, it fits the ways of a 9" sb, however it might need to
work to get a perfect line up. I just sold a complete Boxford and
its bed is just like the 9" SB.
(24302) |
| Ok I can now say
for sure the Boxford and 9" use a VERY similar TS (someone lacking
knowledge on Ebay sold me a heavy 10 TS, and when the package came I
am now the proud owner of a 9" TS) I put them both on the bed and
they both line right up with the HS on a Boxford lathe. (24304) |
| I second that, I
had the same machine before I left the UK, very nice lathe and its
supposed to be the down market side of Colchester, another very
highly respected UK lathe. Bernard R (24307) |
| I have a lever type
tailstock that came with my lathe, wouldn't be without it! I'm not
sure if it is a SBL accessory or maybe off another makers lathe?
Maybe others can tell? I have posted 2 pics in the "misc" folder on
the photo website. Tim Q (24329) |
| Tailstock
alignment |
| I am
wondering how to tell if the tailstock on my 16 inch SBL, model 117C
is in correct alignment. I put a Jacobs chuck in the taper of the
tailstock and started to center drill a piece in the 3 jaw when it
seemed the drill was running off center, as indicated by a visible
wobble in drill bit. Any advise appreciated. Is it possible the
lathe being out of level could do this? I haven't checked its level
in a long while. Mark
(25046) |
| Mark, Assuming
(always dangerous) that you snugged the T/S barrel clamp, there is
not too much play in the barrel, the taper holds the chuck arbor
tightly, and (most important) the tailstock is in alignment, are you
using a center drill to start? A center drill would take a lot to
make it wobble. A drill will wobble if the flutes are not ground
equally, but normally will be pulled into center if you first used a
center drill (a short bit to put a center into the end of stock).
George (25047) |
| Yes, being out of
level could do that. A periodic level check is a good idea.
JP (25048) |
| A simple way to
check tail stock alignment requires good centers in both the head
and tail stocks. Bring the tail stock up till the centre points
almost touch and eyeball their relative positions. If necessary,
adjust until they look about right then try to gently trap a thin
straight metal bar between them. Bar need to be as thin as possible
commensurate with remaining straight, about 3/8 wide is plenty. See
last couple of sentences for what I use. If the points are exactly
on centre you can get the bar to stand up straight or lie exactly at
right angles to the bed. Any error tilts it, handily indicating the
direction of error in the process. With good sharp centers its
frustratingly accurate. Ball ended "centers" are perhaps more
manageable for this task. Ball ended "centers" are easily made if
you have a couple of gash soft centers or blank end MT arbors to
sacrifice. Simply set-up in the head stock, turn a shallow conical
recess about 1/2 to 2/3 the chosen ball diameter and silver solder a
ball bearing in place with the arbor standing vertical so the
surface tension of the silver solder pulls the ball central. OK to
make them different sizes. These are handy things to have around
being much kinder to the centers drilled in the work when taper
turning between centers. Light cuts please as, being fabricated,
they are not so strong as solid centers. Can also make them for the
replaceable point type of rotating tail stock centers but now
careful work is essential if the result is to be accurate. A similar
trick can be used to see if a tool is exactly on centre height.
Set-up or turn a true running rod, reasonably slim but big enough to
be stiff, 1/2 to 1 inch OD works fine. Probably the best thing to
use is an MT ended test bar, if you have one, but promise to be
very, very careful! Gently trap your thin metal test bar between the
tool cutting edge and the rod. If it stands up straight you are on
centre. Tilting top towards you means the tool is low, away from you
its high. The smaller the rod diameter the more sensitive the test.
I use my 5th best 6" flexi-rule as the thin straight metal bar.
Cheapy-Chinee free gift taped to a magazine cover. Distinctly
marginal accuracy but with nice deep graduations and seemingly
indestructible despite being used for all the grot jobs and frequent
residence in the swarf tray. Clive
(25055) |
| An out of level
lathe bed can certainly cause strange things and should be checked
first. However, to check the tailstock you will need a dead center
in good condition to fit the tailstock spindle, a "Last Word" type
dial indicator with a flexible arm, and a small mirror. Put the
center in the tailstock and the indicator shank in the headstock
chuck. Bring the tailstock up to the indicator with the spindle
retracted and lock it down with the indicator contacting the center
about halfway between the point and the shoulder. Rotate the
headstock chuck by hand and note the indicator readings with the
position of the indicator. If the indicator reads high/low at the
front/back of the center, you can adjust the tailstock front to back
with the setscrews. If the reading is high/low top/bottom, it is
likely the tailstock is low due to wear. A shim can help, but you
will need to take multiple readings in order to get the dimension
for a happy medium because the bed is not likely worn evenly
throughout it's length. Roy (25057) |
| Mark, Try putting a
dial indicator in the head stock, then by hand check the inside
taper for run out by turning the chuck by hand. The set over will be
easy to zero in this way. Any up down adjustment is another
matter. (25064) |
| I understand what
the statement below is saying, and I believe I understand the
procedure. " Put the center in the tailstock and the indicator shank
in the headstock chuck. " My question is: does the indicator holder
have to be dead nuts on center in the chuck in the headstock? or
does that not make any difference? I have some issues also with my
tailstock also I 'm trying to sort out. Alex
(25065) |
| I do not always
understand all that you say as I am a beginner at this. The
suggestions that I do understand are priceless, when I can make
sense of them. The cutting tool on center with the cheap ruler
trick, I will never forget, as it makes perfect sense. You can use
the same cheap ruler between sharp dead centers for a quick check of
tailstock alignment, right? Thank you, and please keep the tips
coming. Nick (25070) |
| Leveling will
certainly make a difference and should be done before trying to
align the TS. I was recently having a similar problem with the
spotting drill wandering around trying to center. Having a mill, I
also have a Blake co-axial indicator, which I mounted in the
headstock and ran it against a MT drill arbor, but ways can be found
to rig virtually any dial indicator. I found the TS was below center
line and was not parallel to the bed, tested by measuring with the
TS ram retracted and then at maximum extension. After shimming both
ends of the TS, between its two parts, and centering there is now no
wobble on spot drilling and turning between centers is within
2/10ths over 8", which is close enough for my type of work. Due to
the age of the lathe there is movement between the ram and housing,
and care needs to be taken to be consistent with how much torque is
put on the ram lock. Bernard R (25072) |
| No, it doesn't
matter if the dial indicator is centered or not, because it won't be
touched throughout the operation and will remain relative to the
axis of the spindle as the chuck is rotated. Roy (25073) |
| TS, between its two
parts, and Thanks to all input on tailstock alignment. I am a bit
confused though about reference to setscrews in the tailstock for
alignment, mounting dial indicator in chuck, and also about shimming
the TS. I don't see any set screw? It also seems to me that to use a
dial indicator in the chuck that its mounting shaft or axis of
indicator should be centered? Someone said no, and my spatial
geometry is letting me down? As to shimming, if I place a shim or
shims under tailstock, won't they migrate out of align when I move
the TS? Thanks again for all the great suggestions and input. This
group has been wonderful (with the exception of one posters
vulgarity). I only wish the collective group were in the shop to
show me by example all the great ideas. mark
(25088) |
| Mark, I'll try and
go through the points as you raise them in the text. (25090) |
| Even if it is not
centered it will rotate about center. Thus the displacement of the
indicator from center will be constant at any angle of rotation.
That is all that is needed. Jim B (25092) |
| Mark, Imagine (or
try) mounting the dial indicator in a 4 jaw chuck say one inch off
centre. As you rotate the chuck the mounting point will sweep a
perfect circle. It doesn't matter if the chuck is running true or
not. Frank (25095) |
| My take on this
running thread, is to first level the lathe as stated before. If you
have a center for the headstock, you can put a center on each end of
the lathe (headstock and tailstock) and visually align the
tailstock. If your ways are worn or your tailstock was replaced,
then you might need to shim up the tailstock vertically. So don't
panic on that yet. There should be a setscrew on each side of the
tailstock. You will need to loosen them up. Then turn the opposite
side one in to move the tailstock towards the other side. You can
try and use a dial indicator in the headstock as suggested before. I
usually use a aligning mandrel between the two centers. Then I
usually turn a piece and check for differences between diameter near
the headstock and tailstock. Then adjust the tailstock 1/2 the
difference of the diameters. Tom
(25097) |
| Once again, my thanks to all the responses on this issue. My first
action will be to relevel the lathe. I would like to try the method
using centers in HS and TS. I don't have a center for the spindle,
but I do have a hardened round socket with 3MT sleeve. Could I chuck
that in 3 jaw. I presume I would then put a dial indicator on the
center tapered face to check it is not running out?
mark
(25106) |
| A solution that is
more simple: put a chunk of steel in your chuck turn a 60ø point
directly in the chuck and leave it there until your lathe is
aligned. Your headstock center for the process will be perfectly
centered This way, you won't need to center the headstock center.
Don't forget... the centers are not used for intensive duties when
aligning a tailstock. Guy (25109) |
| Guy, Thanks,
that is so simple I should have seen it. mark
(25112) |
| Mark
writes: Sorry if this has been covered before, it seems like a basic
question. I am wondering how to tell if the tailstock on my 16 inch
SBL, model 117C is in correct alignment. --- Dealing just with the
question of how to tell if the tailstock is in alignment with the
spindle, I presume what you want to know is if the tailstock spindle is
in lateral, vertical, and axial alignment. Thinking a bit on the
subject, try the following: Put dead centers in both the headstock and
tailstock spindles. Either manually or at slowest speed, turn the
headstock spindle and check the center to be certain that it's running
true (if not take whatever corrective measures are required). If you
have the ability to do so, check the tailstock center in the same way,
if not, at least look it over to see if you can see any flaw which
would make it unreliable as a gauge. With the center in the tailstock,
retract the ram to determine at what point the center will release from
the taper. Leave the center in this "just released" position. Now slide
the tailstock towards the headstock until there is just 1/8" to 1/4" of
clearance between the centers. Reset the center in the tailstock so
that it won't rotate. Wind the tailstock spindle out towards the
headstock until the centers points come in contact with each other and
check them visually to see if they are "point to point". As a better
check, do the trick of lightly pinching a 6" rule between the centers
and see if it tilts in any direction. To check that the tailstock
center is true you can retract the ram to release the center, rotate
the center maybe 90 degrees, reset it in the ram, and reperform this
test. And do it at several more positions of rotation. You have just
tested the tailstock ram and center for proper lateral and vertical
alignment with the headstock at minimum extension of the ram. I hope
this first test was satisfactory. Release the tailstock and slide it
away from the headstock. Now run the ram out until it releases from the
screw. Having determined this position, reengage the ram with the screw
and retract it about 3/8" to 1/2". With the ram in this position,
reperform the tests you ran when the ram was at minimum extension. If
the results of this second test matched the first you have verified the
same conditions for the ram at maximum extension. You have also
verified that the ram is in axial alignment with the headstock spindle.
If the results are different you can tell in which direction the
tailstock axis is out of alignment. Regarding corrective actions, it is
important to make certain that the alignment is correct at minimum
extension before checking for axial alignment. Once you've verified or
dealt with the alignment at minimum extension you can then take
whatever steps are needed to maintain the alignment as the ram extends,
but if you start adjusting before you've established a solid base
position (minimum extension) any "corrections" you make are likely to
agravate whatever problems you may have. These tests have checked that
the tailstock is in alignment with the headstock center, but the have
NOT tested that the headstock axis is in alignment with the bed and
tailstock. That's a different problem. Using the machine to check
itself is a good practice if you can determine a method that will work.
Anthony (25114) |
| Fix For Worn
tailstock - SB 9" Model A |
| It is somewhat hard
to measure as I do not have anything that serves as a height gauge.
However, a center in the tailstock is about .010 lower than one in
the headstock. I have some .003 shimstock and have been inserting it
in layers between the upper and lower halves of the tailstock. Is
this the best way to deal with this? Yes, this lathe has had LOTS of
use. With the help of parts from Sobel's and others, I have
renovated it as much as practical. For now, I am using the tailstock
from my Model C, which has very little wear; and, it cuts pretty
straight. Still, I would like to not "cannibalize" one lathe for
the other. Any suggestions for fixing the tailstock that came with
the lathe would be appreciated - especially since I have invested in
a quill and handle for it. Andy
(25172) |
| Andy, I sometimes
get the feeling that tailstocks get moved from one machine to the
other. Mine was out of tram with the bed quite badly and I ended up
with different shim packs front, back and both sides. You need to
shim all four sides, not just front and back, otherwise different
torque on the central clamping bold can change the alignment. I
think you can buy different shim stock from car accessory stores, 2,
5 and 10 thou work for me. Bernard R (25174) |
| Tailstock is
0.12 " too low |
| The tail stock on
my sb 9" is off by quite a bit( very low), are there any tricks to
bring it up to height or should I be looking for a replacement. I
will be doing a lot of center drilling with 2-4MM drills.
(25634) |
| It can be shimmed
if off a little but .125 is a LOT. Makes me wonder if there isn't
some previous-owner-butchery at work.(25635) |
| It does seem a lot.
Is the Tailstock Quill pointing down at the headstock end for any
reason. Mine was pointing up when I got it, due to shimming at one
end of the sub-base. Jim (25636) |
| Are you sure that
you don't have a twist in your bed. This can appear to make the
tailstock off. Check out the archives on leveling before you start
to shim. Jim B. (25647) |
| Check the bed
before doing anything else, it could be old and warped, it could be
distorted by heavy bolting down on an uneven surface. But it's quite
likely that your machine could have a tailstock (or headstock) taken
from from another lathe. Normal wear on a tailstock's base
eventually lowers the tailstock, but not that much. One hundred and
twenty thou difference is a lot to account for, so I don't think
your all of your lathe is original. Most unusually, my tailstock was
about 10 thou high, and the headstock was warped, which I put down
to the strains of manufacturing in 1943. And that's as great a
height difference as I've ever encountered. If the base face of your
tailstock is in acceptable condition, and if the headstock's mandrel
is parallel to the bed, set up a dial gauge or "Verdict" style
indicator gauge to read inside the internal taper of the tailstock
when the mandrel is rotated -- this will give you an accurate
measure of TWICE the height difference. A piece of thick gauge plate
(commercial annealed carbon steel used for tool making) can be
ground to the required thickness, cut into two parts, and inserted
between the upper and lower half of your tailstock. Between the two
pieces of gauge plate you'll see a long "key" and keyway that
control alignment of the the tailstock during cross movement when
the tailstock is set-over for taper turning. You will have to extend
this "key" to retain proper tailstock alignment, especially for work
with small drills. If the base face of the tailstock is in poor
condition, its probably cheaper to get another tailstock with much
less "wear", but your existing stock's wearing surface could be
ground on its flat and vee faces to remove the worn area, and a even
thicker piece of spacing gauge plate used to lift the top half of
the tailstock. Grinding that base perfectly parallel to the
tailstock's barrel needs work of a good professional standard. Alan (25648) |
| Further to the
excellent advice from Alan. If you don't happen to have a "Verdict"
type indicator an alternative is to release all the tail-stock
fixings, extend the barrel and grasp it in the chuck so you can
measure the gap twit body and base with improvised feeler gauge
scrap sheet stacks. Obviously you need to be pretty confident of the
chuck, I'd be inclined to remove the mandrel, set it true in the
four jaw then slide the tail-stock into position (carefully) before
holding it in position by tightening up the locking lever. A minor
potential advantage of this approach is that you can do "cut try"
with your gauge plate or, more likely, selections of steel sheet
from the scrap box. At least with a big discrepancy you can use
engineering methods to make and fix the new spacers. Faffing about
trying to fix 10 thou or so of shim in when its only a bit out can
be a right PIA. A point that the inexperienced among us might not be
aware of is that, despite the calibrations, a dial gauge is not a
measuring instrument. Its an indicator (hence Dial Test Indicator)
or comparator and for accurate work you are looking for "same
indication" when compared with a gauge block stack or moving against
whatever you are aligning. This is especially true of lever
"Verdict" types which, basically, derive the needle movement via a
pair of balanced hairsprings. Plunger types use a rack and pinion so
they come closer to being a measuring instrument but are less
versatile than the Verdict type. If you have a slide type adjustable
boring head which can be mounted in the tail stock you can use the
centers tilting ruler method to measure the offset. Start by making
a centre to fit the boring tool mounting holes in the head and get
it running true. I'd be inclined to put the beast in the head-stock
taper, mount up a short bit of round stock to make the centre from,
get it all running true and cut the centre in situ. Transfer to the
tail stock with the adjustment slide running straight up and down
and adjust until your test strip (e.g. gash 6" ruler) does not tilt
when trapped between the centre in the boring head and one in the
head-stock. You could trust the boring head calibrations but if you
have a plunger DTI you can work directly off the moving slide then
use the DTI as a comparator to get the shim stack or ground plate
the right size. Its a lot easier to do it the way Alan advises!
Clive (25668) |
| I used a crude and
rude method for tailstock aligning that was meant to be just for
starters - might have been a fluke but it was all I had to do. What
I did was put a sharp centre in the head stock and tailstock and
brought the two points together with the tailstock spindle wound in.
Using a magnifying glass I centered the points with packers in the
tailstock and then checked the points with the tailstock spindle
wound out. Using brass shim it didn't take long at all and doing the
odd parallel cut over a reasonable length since the alignment (using
the tailstock) shows the lathe to be quite accurate.
Dave (25682) |
