| HF QC Toolpost/Tooling kits? (Mar 30, 2001) |
Aloris Catalog (Aug 19, 2002) |
| Aloris is not like a HF QC
(Mar 30, 2001) |
Armstrong/ J.H. Williams #50 threading toolpost (Sep 6,
2002) |
| Tool holder bolt, 7/16-16 x 3/4"
lg sq hd? (Apr 5, 2001) |
What's the right QC Tool Post for a 13 SB (Oct 27, 2002) |
| HF QC Tool Post Arrived
(Apr 13, 2001) |
Wedge or piston toolpost?
(Nov 4, 2002) |
| Rocker tool post (Sep 3,
2001) |
Williams toolholder size
(Dec 23, 2002) |
| Tool Holders (Sep 4,
2001) |
QC tool posts: KDK vs. Aloris?
(Jan 12, 2003) |
| Quick-Change Toolposts
(Sep 8, 2001) |
10 in 1 tool holders (Feb 25, 2003) |
| Toolpost redux (Nov 20,
2001) |
Tool holder part needed (Apr 24, 2003) |
| HF QC Tool Posts Again
(Nov 26, 2001) |
QC or 4 way tool holder (May 23, 2003) |
| Tool Post Plan Search
(Nov 29, 2001) |
Phase II Piston OR Wedge (Jun 18, 2003) |
| Tool Posts Yet Again
(Dec 8, 2001) |
Grizzly tool holders (Jul 16, 2003) |
| Aloris ToolPost and ToolHolders (Dec 15, 2001) |
Choosing a QC or 4-way tool post (Aug 5, 2003) |
| Toolholders (Dec 27,
2001) |
10K Tool post question (Oct 1, 2003) |
| Help with QCTP (Feb 25,
2002) |
Armstrong Tool Holders (Oct 7, 2003) |
| Phase II tool post (Feb
27, 2002) |
Tool post dovetail dimensions (Oct 17, 2003) |
|
KRF toolpost (Mar 1, 2002) |
What size tool holder for a 16" SB? (Feb 4,
2004) |
|
Preferred aloris-style size for a 10K (Apr 8, 2002) |
Harbor Freight QCTP
(Apr 4, 2004) |
|
Toolholder (May 2, 2002) |
Aloris tool posts
for 16" (Apr 5, 2004) |
|
Opinions on Aloris? (May 30, 2002) |
Aloris AXA tooling
on 13" (Apr 12, 2004) |
|
Phase 2 tool holders
(May 30, 2002) |
QCTP for 10K help
(May 4, 2004) |
|
BXA on Heavy 10? (Jun 19, 2002) |
Quick Change tool
post plans? (Dec 11, 2004) |
|
Dorian Tools "Quadra" Tool Post
(Jun 23, 2002) |
Phase 2 QCTP
(Dec 31, 2004) |
|
Aloris AXA question (Aug 7, 2002) |
Tool holder
questions (Feb 4, 2005) |
|
SB Tool holder Post (Aug 8, 2002) |
QCTP Dovetail
Dimensions (Feb 17, 2005) |
| |
| HF QC Tool post and
Tooling kits? |
| I was playing
around with part numbers at Harbor Freight website (while waiting
for compiles and downloads) and found: "HF METAL WORKING LATHE TOOL
KIT (20 PC.)" regularly $$39.99 (ITEM 43536-0VGA) can be had for
$34.97 (ITEM 43536-2VGA). Anybody know about this item? Is it even
worth the metal its made from? Contrast that with "QUICK CHANGE
LATHE TOOL KIT" ITEM 35140-0VGA for $79.99 or cheaper as ITEM
35140-4VGA for $59.99. Contrast that with "QUICK CHANGE TOOL POST
SET FOR MINI LATHE" ITEM 42806-0VGA $99.99 (no discounts found).
Anybody using any of these on a 9" SB or similar? Paul R.
(424) |
| Any comments on either of the
following QC tool posts (with respect to a 9" SB)? I thought I'd see
if small pictures work in emails. Sorry if I caused problems with
anyone. QUICK-CHANGE TOOLPOST KIT ITEM 39083-0VGA $99.99 6-12 INCH
SWING QUICK-CHANGE TOOLPOST AND HOLDER SET ITEM 34809-1VGA $129.99
Paul R. (425) |
| Paul The best tool
post from HF is the model 39083 which is a cone of the Phase
II/Aloris 100 series post for lathes up to 12". The 43536 set is for
use with lantern type tool posts and consists of Armstrong type tool
holders. The 35140 is generally considered to be a very bad choice
as it only comes with one tool holder and a cutoff holder and some
Armstrong holders for a lantern tool post. The 42806 tool post is a
light but usable clamp type more suited to the 9x20 or 7x machines
than the SB. But still not as good for them as the 39083 is.
JWE (426) |
| JWE, The 39083 QC holder is
kind of where I'm leaning at this point as it looks like it will do
the job and comes with several holders, a drill chuck and knurling
wheels. I was curious about the 34809 holder as it is advertised as
interchangeable with Aloris and Phase 2, but costs more and looks a
little bulkier. Do you have either the one of these? It was unclear
from looking at previous posts. It would be interesting to see one
of these on a 9" for perspective. Paul R. (427) |
| Paul - I have the
Phase II tool post on my 9" model A. I have just recently started
using it and so far so good, but I am far from an expert. I will try
to take some pictures and post them so you will have a reference.
Mike (428) |
| I have a SB
light 10, will the HF 39083 fit my lathe? How is it installed? Do
you simply remove the standard holder from the compound T slot and
slide the QC Tool post in its place? Frank (430) |
| It looks like it
should. The dimensions given for the tool post match my Phase II
tool post. This is on a 9", but would also fit a 10". As far as
mounting, my lathe did not come with a toolpost. I made a
rectangular piece of metal to fit the bottom of the T slot on the
compound, drilled and tapped it. Toolpost bolted right down to it.
You would probably have to do the same. Mike (431) |
| Paul That one is a
Phase II. The same one I have on my SB since 1978. JWE (432) |
| JWE, And I
take it you are happy with your setup. Is that QCTP a good match
size and configuration for the 9" SB? From your picture, it looks
like your QC post is like the 39083 ($99.99) rather than the 34809
($129.99)? Sorry if I'm missing it. I'm kind of confused which one you
meant in your earlier post: "That one is a Phase II. The same one I
have on my SB" Does yours have a single tool location? Anyway, if
the cheaper 39083 QCTP is recommended, I thought I'd give it a try.
Paul R. (434) |
| Paul The one in the
picture is the piston type Phase II and is 23 years old now. The
holders from it will fit the 39083 post but the ones from the 39083
will not quite fit the Phase II. I have 4 of the 39083 posts for the
7x10s and 7x12 as well as one for the 9x20 when I put it back
together. JWE (435) |
| The purists might
scold me, but the quick change tool post set was probably the best
money I spent. I think that they eliminate many of the variables
that make work frustrating. i could not believe how much improvement
was made with these tools. I would also suggest to use the qc with
larger hss/cobalt bits held directly in the holders, 3/8 1/2" fit
well. second to that is carbide turning and boring bars, but that's
another thread.... i have the phase II piston type. i am happy with
it. Generically speaking, the import holders of this size seem to size
them the same: the 100 series fits 9"-12" lathes. the HF one is the
piston type. the only annoying thing is that the setscrews that hold
the tools in place are metric. to order them by name, try Enco or
MSC, there might be others too. I think that Dave Fiken has them too
over at meridian. Dave prices are usually completive, and even if its
a couple of dollars more, I go with Dave over Enco any day.
www.mermac.com Dave also usually has good used sb parts too. as far
as machinery dealers go, he is hands down the best I have dealt
with. the piston type is actually on sale at Enco right now for $133
+s/h. set comes with the 5 basic holders: turning, boring, facing,
knurling, cut -off. Dave lists them for $155. mounting: mine came
with an round, oversize flat 'nut' that I had to turn down to fit
the slot of my compound. it mounts similarly to the way that the
lantern style does. the nut you see on the top of the tool post is
on the stud that pulls the nut in the slot up against the t-slot of
the compound. the handle/eccentric piston inside turns on the stud.
I
had to add an extra washer on top to take up some of the slack in
the stud, its a bit long for 9" I think. it might be worth taking a
look at phase II web site:
http://phase2plus.com for
the quick change toolposts. personal preference: I have the piston
type, but in retrospect would have preferred the wedge type (Aloris
Dorian style). I think that they are more rigid and i like the
positive aspect of the full dovetail mechanism instead of the
piston. I would advise you to spend the extra money on the wedge
type, I think in the long run you will be happier with it. they are
almost 2x the price though. I have a number of phase II tools, and I
am pleased and happy with the performance all of them. in general,
if the choice for the money is generic import or phase 2, I go for
the phase 2. the instructions are always a bit lacking, but they are
translations anyhow. I have inspected the grizzly version of the
tool post and I think it is of identical if not a bit better finish
quality. the extra holders I will buy will probably be from grizzly.
They offer them individually for ~$20 per.
www.grizzly.com dennis
(437) |
| Might want to check
out the KDK style wedge tool holder though not interchangeable with
the Aloris it has a nice feature of being able to turn the tool
holder over and and use the other end with another tool bit while
still having a set screw for holding the height adjustment. This is a
nice unit but I have never used any other quick change, because that
is what they had in school and what came with my new used
lathe. (439) |
| Aloris is not
like a HF QC |
| Paul, The HF
39083 can be had for 79.99 if you use the right order numbers. the
39083 6JGC is the model 39083, then the price code number, then the
letters. go to the HF site, and click order from catalogue, then put
in your stock number and try different price codes. Don't worry,
nothing will be charged until you put in your credit card number.
39083 QCTP is recommended, I thought I'd give it a try. Harbor
Freight?
(440) |
| Dave, I'm aware of the price code games that you can play on the HF
web site, but nothing turned out lower than the $99.99 price I
quoted earlier. If you know the exact code that shows up as $79.99,
please let me know. I tried 39083 [0-6] [JGC,VGA] Paul R.
(441) |
| Paul, try 39083
8 vga $79.99 Dave (443) |
| Very cool, Dave
Looks like it just might work. I needed to order one small thing
from HF and wanted to spread the "Shipping Handling" charges over
more items. I'll try placing an order and let the group know.
Paul R. (444) |
| It appears the
number does indeed work: 1 39083-8vga 79.97 QUICK CHANGE KIT - 17PC
I'll let you all know if/when it arrives, and yes no shipping
charges! Paul R. (447) |
| Marty, Not to
insult anybody's intelligence, here's the exact steps I used: 1) go
to http://www.harborfreight.com/ 2) click on "Order from Printed
Catalog" (fourth item down on left-hand side) 3) You should see a
small pop-up "PRINTED CATALOG ORDER" window. The boxes from left to
right are: QTY, 5-DIGIT-ITEM-#, SIINGLE-DIGIT-PRICE-CODE,
3-CHARACTER-CODE 4) enter 1 39083 8 vga in the first row of boxes
(not the example boxes at the top). 5) click on the "Add To Order"
button and your main browser window will show your shopping cart
with the $79.99 price for the item. And a big thanks to Dave for
sharing the correct code. Paul R. (449) |
| Harty, on
the HF home page, left column, ORDER FROM CATALOGUE. If you use the
number on the site, then you will get today's price. Dave sounds
like you owe me a cup of coffee !
(450) |
| Dave, Marty may
not, but I sure owe you a cup!
Paul R. (452) |
| Thank you. It's really an internal joke. We did a job with the old DuPont,
when it was all engineered out of Wilmington Delaware. Saved them a
couple hundred thousand dollars, and they asked what they do could
to say thanks, just said, buy me a cup of coffee and we'll call it
even. anyway Paul, you are more than welcome. I get a lot of help
here and don't mind being fair and offering it back. By the way,
even though I now know the secret, it was not mine to begin with. I
got it from another gentleman who posted on either this site the
9x20lathe. Since then I also found it on the 7x10minilathe site.
When yours comes in, put up a picture. Mine will be in (I hope) this
week. I'm finishing up a long project on the drill press. Then I
will be wiring up the 9x20, just in time to try out the new tool
post. Dave (456) |
| Tool holder
bolt, 7/16-16 x 3/4" lg sq hd? |
| Been looking for a
source to the bolt that goes in the Armstrong or Williams tool
holder, size 5/16" sq bit, referred to as a 1S,1R or 1L. This is a
square headed bolt with a weird thread size of 7/16-16 and is about
3/4" lg. Joe Bergamo at Plaza machine says he had some made up one
time, but does not stock them. Does anyone know a source or even if
Armstrong of Williams are still in business making these. One option
is to make them on the lathe, which I might just do, thought someone
out there might have an idea on a source. big tom
(480) |
| Big Tom, Similar
situation here. I want to replace the non-stock carriage lock screw
on my 9" (its currently an Allen-head cap screw). I'd like to find a
generic source for square-head bolts for that and for holders and
jigs. They work much better than Allen head screws. For now I'm
machining one from a piece of round stock and I'll mill the square
head using the lathe as well. No desire on your part to just make
one? Paul R. (481) |
| Try McMaster-Carr
that is where I get them for Davenport as well as B S tool holders.
JWE (483) |
| Paul, I have a
whole lot of sq head screws, but with std threadm not the 16 tpi,
what do you need, I will never use them all, be happy to send you
some, nc, let me know. But if they are non-std I don't have. Will
try MC as jw recommended. thanks folks big tom ps. 13" SB, think I
need to recruit more 13" guys and seems like I talk more about my SB
lathe than actually use it, so it goes, really glad to see all this
great information, loving it. wonder what the SB owners did before
the Internet
(486) |
| I have a local used
tool guy. he sells tool holders for abut $15 each on up. larger is
more expensive. I've tried to get a few, but he sells the small ones
pretty quickly. If you are interested, next time I go down. I'll
see if he has any in the size you need. I have seen some 1" holders
milled to fit special setups so that is an option too, if you have
access to a mill. And if you're looking for something special let me
know, RH LH etc. haven't seen any boring holders, sorry. And it's no
trouble, It's my Saturday morning hang out. B S tool sq hd? (488) |
| HF QC Tool Post
Arrived |
| My new $79.97 HF
39083 QC tool post set arrived today. Looks like a good deal for the
price. Pictures can be made available if interested, although JS
Early was already kind enough to post one of the 39083 on his 9" SB.
Now to machine a T-nut for the compound using a 1/2"x2-3/8"x7/8" (as
I recall) piece of CRS, and do it all on the lathe. Paul R. (511) |
| Rocker tool
post |
| Paul, I've been
searching some of the previous posts for information regarding quick
change tool posts. I saw that you ordered a set from Harbor Freight
(#39083) and I was wondering whether or not you were well pleased
with it. As I said in one of my earlier posts, I too have a 9' mod.
A, but am woefully deficient in the tooling department. Could you
please offer some reflections as to the usefulness and quality of
your acquisitions? Phillip (1434) |
| I'll keep my rocker
tool post (along with several turret TPs and a QC Aloris-style TP).
Its handy to reach into tight spots once in a while that would be
difficult/impossible to do any other way. Sometimes the turret or QC
block hits the mandrel while I'm cutting a recess, so off it goes
and on goes the lantern/rocker TP. Nice to have options.
Paul R. (1431) |
| Phillip I have had
the Phase II version of this tool post on my 9" SB since 1975 and
will not use anything else. The attached picture was taken for the
instruction I posted to the 7x10 group on mounting the 39083 tool
post to my 7x10. The 39083 will use Aloris Phase II holders
available from Enco, Grizzly and others although the 39083 holders
will not fit the Phase II post. Get it the price is right and the
pleasure of using firmly mounted QC tooling you will never outgrow.
I have never put the rocker post back on my machine since I have had
the QC one and really now do not even know where it is as I have not
seen it for over 20 years. JWE (1439) |
| Tool Holders
|
| Since toolholders
has popped up on this board, here's a web address to one I ordered.
www.krfcompany.com . I have no affiliation to this company. I have
used the Aloris and Swiss type indexing holders. The Swiss type is
probably the best, but on the expensive side. I think around $800
for the smaller series. The holder from KRF looks to be based on
this design type, but simplified. I haven't seen mine yet, so I
haven't used it either. I am still rebuilding my lathe. I need to
modify the bed mounts, as I am using an Underdrive bed in place of
the horizontal bed. This Underdrive bed has hardened ways and the
ways look almost brand new. I'll post how this tool holder works out
when I've had the chance to use it. Tom
(1458) |
| I looked on HF's
web page and found this tool holder:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42806
They say it's for a mini-lathe and the price is $79.00. Is this the
one that was under discussion a few posts back? Glen (1460) |
| I looked on HF's
web page and this is the only tool holder that comes up. They say
it's for a mini-lathe, I assume they mean the 7" x 10" that they
sell. The price is $79.99. Seems like a bargain for all you get
if it is adaptable to my SB9's.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42806
Is this the one under discussion a few posts back? The catalog
number given (39063 OCJA) comes up blank. Glen (1461) |
| Depends on how far
back you mean. The piston style, Phase II knockoff, HF toolpost
discussed on 9/3, is number 39063, but it doesn't come up on the web
page. In the latest sales flyer it is number 39063-OCJA for $99. The
one you refer to below is NOT worth it. Those who've tried it on the
7x10s 7x12s don't like it. For the extra $20 get the 39063-OCJA.
There is a trick to getting the sales flyer price when ordering over
the internet. Something like "order from printed catalog" or
something. Then you have to use the full item number with appended
letters. I think just using the numbers gets you the non-sale price.
This is all from vague memory of what others have said, I haven't
actually done it. Rick K. (1463) |
| I just looked on
the HF website and plugged in the stock # 39083 9VGA in the "search"
box. What comes up is the tool post I believe Paul H was talking
about. It's the Phase II clone for a 9 or 10 in lathe. The price
comes up at $79.99 for the set, also includes a Jacobs type drill
chuck! Tim Q (1466) |
| Been really
busy lately, so the short review on the HF tool holder is: The H.F.
QC tool post works pretty good for the price ($79.99). I'm sure its
a lot cheaper construction than the real one, but for the price, I
can't complain. I've used it for regular turning, boring parting, so
far. No knurling or drilling. The construction is a little off. The
elevation control studs on the individual tool holders are not
perpendicular, but that's cosmetic. The base was easy to fit to the
lathe. It comes as a slab of steel with a threaded hole. You have to
cut to size and mill the steps in it. I did it on my 7x10 lathe with
a milling adapter. That was before I got my mill. turned out okay
anyway. Would I buy it again for the same price? Sure. If there's
interest and if I have the time I can take a few pictures of the
tool post on my 9" SB. JWE (1468) |
| Quick-Change
Toolposts |
| I am also
looking for a quick-change toolpost. When I went to the Harbor
Freight site, I found listings for 3 different toolposts.
#39083-0VGA supposedly this is for a combo lathe-mill #34809-3VGA
for 6" to 12" lathe (compatible with Aloris or Phase II) #34816-0VGA
for 10" to 15" lathe (compatible with Aloris or Phase II) the 39083
was regularly 99.99 on sale for 79.99 the 34809 was 109.99 and the
34816 was 149.99 all of them had 5 holders with them and the 34809
appears from the great pictures to be identical to the unit that
Grizzly sells for 199.95 and that KBC sells for 290.95. Has anybody
bought the 34809? If so, how does it work? Has anybody bought the
G5689 from Grizzly? Has anybody bought the 1-459-100 from KBC? Alan
(1496) |
| Alan The 34089 is a
Phase II toolpost and identical to those available from Grizzly,
Enco and all the others. The 39083 is to the same design as the
34089 but is made in India not China. I have had the Phase II post
fitted to my SB 9" A since 1978 and would use nothing else. My 7x
and 9x machines are fitted with the 39083 HF post and I find the
quality of the unit very good. One small note of interest is that
the tool holders from the Phase II will fit the 39083 post but those
from the 39083 will not fit the Phase II post. They are all good
buys and well worth the price. JWE (1501) |
| I have just
recently purchased the 39083 which is the Aloris simple-type, in
that it is not indexing nor is it a gib type. Installation on my
9"S.B. consisted of milling the rough sized t-nut shoe (for lack of
a better term) and I was in business. Immediately I could tell that
cuts were smoother and parting-off became so much easier. This thing
is cheep but quite solid. Yes I am pleased but am also aware that it
lacks the finesse of the Aloris and in fact is not as nice as the
PhaseII cheap one and certainly not as well made as the more
expensive of the two available grades of PhaseII but for the money
you can't go wrong. Ray (1511) |
| I haven't seen the
Harbor Freight toolposts. I have the Phase II piston style toolpost
and am very satisfied. The Phase II is on sale (and has been for
nearly a year?!?) for $132 complete with five tool holders from
Enco. One of the holders in the set is a cutoff toolholder which has
made my life MUCH easier. Before it, I had trouble with cutoff. Now,
cutoffs are almost always routine. (1516) |
| So, if I buy one of
these toolposts for my 9" SB, do I need to shim under the bottom or
take material off the bottom to get the tool where it should be on
the workpiece centerline? Lurch (2064) |
| Do you know the
Enco part number for this setup? (2065) |
| Lurch The HF 39083
is virtually identical to the Phase II tool posts and you need to
machine the block for the stud to fit your T-slot on the compound. I
have been using the Phase II on my SB for about 25 years and it
works great. The HF one works exactly the same and is much less
money and comes with a cheap drill chuck to mount in the boring bar
holder. For extra holders you can buy the Phase II ones from Enco
and the rest. I have 4 of these 39083 posts for my 7x znd 9x lathes.
JWE(2066) |
| No shimming
necessary. The toolholder is dovetailed on the block and has a
vertical adjusting knob. Set tool height with the knob and tighten
the locknut. Now when you remove and replace it, it will still be
set for the right height. Check out
http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/toolpost/toolpost.html
for an article on building your own. I have built one of Mr. Stevenson's toolposts and it works every bit
as good as any Aloris I've ever used. The only change I made to the
original plan was to size it down to 2.5"x2.5". It still looks huge
on my 9" but works fine. Frank (2067) |
| Toolpost redux |
| I have a lantern
toolpost, and a 4-way turret tool post, and a quick-change setup.
The 4-way turret post is ok, but requires tool shimming. The
quick-change setup would require me to separately buy several more
Type 1 holders to have 1 each for right and left finishing, right
and left roughing, and threading even if I use the dual-purpose ones
in the kit...so even with a QC setup I'm still reaching for the
Allen wrenches all the time. My goal, is to design a
height-adjustable, rotatable tool post that offers quick-change
capability by holding the tool shank with a cam-lock arrangement,
without the need for separate toolholder blocks. I have a rough
idea...but the design is a LONG way from fully-formed in my mind.
Any ideas? Is this even possible?
(2209) |
| You could buy a
dovetail cutter and make your own blocks for the QC post.
Christopher (2210) |
| HF QC Tool
Posts Again |
| I've been lurking
on here for a week or so... searching and reading all the old posts
I can. BTW I'm almost done re-building my 1945 Heavy 10, (4 1/2 ft
bed) just waiting for my eBay quick change gear box to come.
Question now seems to be what type of quick change tool post to
purchase? Discussion in March from Paul and others tended to say
that all the import ones, ie: Harbor Freight, Phase II and the like,
were all the same?? I don't mind spending a tad more for something
that is clearly better, after all I now own a South Bend. Harbor
Freight lists two that look like they will work. A 39083-8VGA with
post, holders and tools on sale for $79.99. The other HF item is a
34809-3VGA for $109.99. Anyone know the difference between the two,
aside it looks like you get a set of I'm sure very low quality tools
with the $79 one. Experiences with either or better choices (Enco,
Phase II etc) from the Group welcome! B.G.
(2246) |
| The 34089 is a
Phase II from China. The 39083 is a clone from India. I have both
and they both work good, why spend more money for a different name
on the invoice. JWE (2247) |
| I have a 39083 and
I find it very aggravating the way there are two different positions
about 2 degrees apart the holder can lock down at--sloppy loose
dovetails. Please enlighten us 39083 owners how to make it
right. I'm guessing keep the post and make my own holders. (2249) |
| Lurch I am and have
been using the ones that came with them and have had no problems at
all. Like I said I have four of them and I can see no difference
between them and the Phase II that I have had for 25 years.
JWE (2251) |
| Tool Post Plan
Search |
| I need to find some
plans for a quick change tool post that will fit a South Bend 9"
lathe. As part of my project portfolio at tech school I have to
build a QC Tool post now. The standard plan the school provides is
for a big tool post. I want to build one I can use on my personal
lathe, a SB 9 C. Anyone know of any good source for a plan like
this? Freebies gratefully accepted if anyone has something they can
schlep me over the internet. Bubba K.
(2283) |
| Check out this one
http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/toolpost/toolpost.html Pete
(2285) |
| Bubba, Try
http://www.mini-lathe.com/ JWE (2287) |
| Maybe someone out
here can help me. I am looking for a blueprint for a tool post. It
is kinda a reverse of the phase II one. the tool post has a female
dovetail in it and is bolted down to the cross-slide. It has a cross
bolt that tightens the tool block due to a split in the tool post,
the tool block has the male dove tail and the slot and the hold down
screws to hold down the tool. Sounds simple to me right now but I
will try and post matching pictures later. Gerald
(2293) |
| I've built
this toolpost, but scaled it down to 2.5" square. Works great, but
if I were to do it again I might try 2" square. The 3" he describes
looks massive on the little 9". Would probably be just right for a
13". Frank
(2321) |
| Tool Posts Yet
Again |
| I hate
to bring up the subject of tool posts again, but I want to replace
the candlestick, on my C9, with a 4 x position indexed or a
quick-change tool post. I am unable to source either, locally, as
the only guy making them, here in Australia, died a couple of years
back and all the engineering suppliers, I could find, have exhausted
all their old stocks. (If any Aussies, on the list, know of any
sources, please let me know). I've searched the archives and re-read
all the posts on the subject and will probably go with the Harbor
Freight 39083 Q/C. What I need to know is the slot size of the
holders, so I can order some indexed tool holders at the same time.
I assume they are probably 1/2", but I want to make sure as it's a
12,000 mile journey to the refund counter, if I get it wrong! One
last request! What is involved in fitting these tool posts? Is it
just a matter of machining the tee-nut or is there work to be done
on the tool post itself? Bill
(2357) |
| Bill, The tooling
slots are 7/16" deep and 1/2" high. 3/8 tooling seems to be ideal
for the size. The tool post comes with a slab of steel with a
threaded hole for the center bolt. To mount the tool post, one has
to slice about 1/8" off two sides and then mill the "T" steps in the
sides. Since I didn't yet have my RF-31 mill/drill, I had to machine
the part on a lathe. I have a Taig milling attachment for my 7x10 so
that's what I used. I cut down the width with a metal cutting band
saw and then with an end-mill held in the spindle, I milled the
steps. Worked out okay except the end-mill would tend to pull the
workpiece out of the milling vise and cut too deep. I'm happy with
the 39083, but I keep my turret holders and my rocker tool post on
hand for versatility. Paul R. (2359) |
| With that kind of
distance, it might be worth paying slightly more for the phase II
brand from Enco, MSC, etc. From what I hear about Harbor Freight
dealing with them often involves frustration, which would only be
compounded by the long distance. For the phase II and similar AXA
(or 100) size a good size for indexable tool shanks is 1/2". You
have to machine the base piece to fit your T slot, nothing else
provided your holder is not defective is some way. That and many
people choose to replace the set screws with better quality ones. I
do wonder if there is some other choice for a dealer - seems silly
to ship the toolpost from China or Taiwan or India to the middle of
the US and then to Australia. Chris (2362) |
| Chris, Thanks for the advice. The problem with the Phase II or
even worse the Aloris is the US dollar. At around $0.52 AUD the
prices I read in the catalogues I have to double. The HF at $79.97
US is about $160.00 AUD. The Phase will cost me $450.00 AUD. The
Aloris is about $1100.00 AUD. I got the Phase II and Aloris prices
off Enco's web site. Does MSC have a web site? I've searched with a
few search engines but I can't find them! Bill
(2367) |
| Bill; If a 4 way
meets your needs, you can easily make one using only the lathe.
Easier with a mill, but pretty easy with just a lathe. You cut a
block to the size you want the final toolpost to be, plus a bit for
finishing. Face all sides nicely. Make the plate to go in the
compound, drill and tap for some reasonable thread (1/2-20 or a bit
smaller here in the land of the heathen, some equivalent metric size
perhaps down under), secure the block and scribe the centerline. Add
packing under the toolholder as needed to get the desired milled
slots, mount end mill in headstock via a threaded MT3 end mill
adapter, square up and start milling. Drill and tap for bolts/SHCS
as desired. You may get away with holding the end mill in a 3 jaw,
but the hardened end mill may slip. Once done, break all sharp edges.
A nice touch is to replace the bolt with a length of shaft, turned
to about 50 degrees at the top, reduced to clear the toolpost with a
sliding fit, and threaded for the plate that clamps it up. Drill and
tap on the inclined surface, add a bit of shaft with a ball knob,
and you have a nice handle. If you clearance drill about two threads
deep for the handle shaft size, you don't get the jagged look of a
piece of stuff just stuffed in, but instead get a nice finished look
to it. Not as sexy as an Aloris, but a darn site cheaper and only an
evening or two of work. The toolblock can be made of aluminum,
although steel or cast iron is better. If you use aluminum, threaded
inserts for the tool clamping bolts are a good idea. Plans for QC
toolposts abound, but are more work naturally. One nice touch is to
make several toolholders, one with slots all around, one with a slot
on one side for a turning tool and bored for a boring bar on the
other. The AUD vs USD rate makes commercial QCTPs rather pricey I'd
expect. Stan (2369) |
| Yes, MSC is at
www.mscdirect.com The phase II is almost always on sale at Enco
(currently USD 134.99 in the "HOT DEALS" flyer) and often at MSC as
well (MSC actually bought Enco, and run it as a sort of cut rate
alternative to the more industry oriented parent company). Another
good place to get them is www.mermac.com There are piston style and
wedge style. The wedge style is said to be better (I have it for my
big lathe) but I have the less expensive piston style seems fine for
my 9" lathe and it seems fine. Alas there is really no free lunch
when choosing suppliers - you either pay for quality service or take
your chances. Sometimes the prices look better at one place, until
you see what they charge for shipping and handling. The harbor
freight unit is cheap enough if you don't mind waiting around for it
to arrive, perhaps doing some work to get it right, and being
willing to send it back if it is turns out to be unacceptable. Chris
(2370) |
| Try checking phase
2's website. Send them email req'ing info for a regional or local
dealer. http://www.phase2plus.com/ I am a pragmatist: why pay all
the shipping for something to go from china to the us and then back
to Australia? china to Australia is much shorter trip. There has
to be someone in Asia you could buy from. dennis
(2371) |
| WOW!! $1100 for a toolpost! I think I'd be
finding a way to mill a dovetail with my lawnmower before I paid
that. There are a lot of plans for dovetail (Aloris, phase II, etc)
style holders around which are fairly easy to make (I cranked one
out in about 6 hours on a relatives Bridgeport). Barring this, you
might look at the Omni- Post http://www.krfcompany.com/ A friend
has one and swears it's better than sliced bread. As pointed out in
another reply a square toolholder is very simple to make. Better
than your lantern, but once you use a QC style you'll never go back. Frank (2386) |
| Aloris ToolPost and ToolHolders |
| While browsing on
eBay I noticed: For 9" SB: Aloris Tool Post and 5 Tool holders
(ebay link no longer valid)
Steve (2447) |
| Steve But did you
notice the starting price was $100 more than a new one from Enco and
at the current price you could buy two and some holders. Like the
man said there are an army of brand name suckers every day.
JWE (2448) |
| I just looked at
the Enco web site and the same thing that is on ebay is $399.99.
Granted for an extra $25 I just have to think He would be better off
buying it new. Gerald (2449) |
| Gerald I am
speaking of the Phase II A (100) wedge type tool post for $163
and is identical to the Aloris on eBay except for the label on it.
JWE (2450) |
| I believe the
ALORIS AXA tool post with the SAME STYLE and QUANTITY of holders
sells for $550 to $600. I've used both, and IMO, the ALORIS is worth
the money. Enco's generic "equivalents" (hahaha) are crudely
machined and work roughly in comparison. Also buying holders at
different times and they aren't the same. Screws are different sizes,
so you always grab the wrong Allen wrench. One holder will lock down
with the handle about 4 o'clock, as it should, then the next one the
handle will swing all the way around to 9 o'clock to where you can
beat it to death with the chuck jaws! They ARE NOT the same, any
more the Hyundai=Corvette. Just my opinion, having worked 28 years in
a job shop. (2451) |
| OOPS Looks like I
got egg all over my face. The same Aloris set up is about $537 in
the catalog. They put one of there import copies right next to the
Aloris tool post. so I just assumed that they where both Aloris. I
guess that shows what happens when you assume something. Gerald
(2452) |
| My MSC catalog
lists an Aloris Tool post and 5 tool holders for up to 12" lathes
for $533. Yes you can buy imports for considerably less, but not an
Aloris made in USA. Steve (2453) |
| Toolholders |
| I have been researching tool
bit holders for use with hss bits in the lantern toolpost, such as
are made by Armstrong, and I see there are two different types, one
that tilts the bit back about 15 degrees or so and the other that
holds it parallel to the holder shank. Can someone explain which is
for what and why?
(2525) |
| The holder which
places the tool bit at an angle (appx.16 deg.) is for HSS, and the
other is for your carbide bits. lurch (2526) |
| The one that
tilts back is for metals such as steel that need a considerable
angle ground back on the top of the tool. By tilting the whole bit
back, you can leave the top of the bit flat and do less grinding, so
the bits will last longer. The parallel one is for metals that do
best with a flat-topped tool, such as brass. Mike (2528) |
| The straight type holder is for cutters that you would
not want any or very little back rake as when machining brass where
too much rake can result in digging in. The ones with the slant tool
slot allows straight bits and presents them to the work with some
built in back rake. When you purchase a HSS cutter they usually come
with front rake already in the cutter. So with the slant type tool
holder you only need to grind in some rake in the direction of cut
for side rake. Front and back already taken care of by cutter shape
and mounting. I prefer that kind of holder and when doing brass I
stone a flat on the tool top to prevent "self feeding" Also does
wonders for twist drills, just a light stroke on the cutting lips of
a drill with a diamond hone eliminates the self feeding in brass and
for some reason does not seem to affect the cutting or drilling in
other materials. By all means learn by example or books or as I have
done by mistakes to grind and hone tool bits. Really makes an
enormous difference in ease of cutting and quality of finish. A
touch of an oil stone or other hone that you can not even see makes
the difference between a rough finish and a smooth finish and the
better cutting tool is much more kind to your lathe. John (2539) |
| Help with QCTP
|
| I'm
looking for some info about the 9" model A Heavy 10" that I'm
restoring. I've collected most of what I need to put the 2 machines
back together but I have questions about the toolpost. I have a
stock ( Aloris ?? ) type toolpost and several toolholders for the 9"
but I'd really rather have a QCTP. I put a Harbor Freight QCTP on my
Asian 7x12 and love it. I'd like to put a similar QCTP on one or
both of my South Bend's. Is there a significant difference between
the wedge piston type QCTP's or should I shop for price ? I have the
HF wedge type on my 7x12 and aside from looking around for the
stupid Allen key every time I change tools I like the thing and
would really like a large one. Do they just slide the support post
into the T-slot and be done with it ? Is there an advantage to
keeping the lantern-type toolpost that I have for the 9" ? Dave (3380) |
| There has
always been a fairly diverse range of opinions regarding wedge vs.
piston QCTPs. The general feel seems to be that a wedge style is
more rigid, but not enough to make much if any difference in the
typical hobby shop, as most hobbyists don't push the tool to the
absolute maximum depth of cut it can do very often. I just make
block style holders, one to hold (4) 1/4 inch tools, one to hold (2)
1/2 inch tools, and one to hold boring bars and another 1/2 inch
tool. Actually I make the openings large enough to take cutoff tools
as well. It takes maybe 30 seconds to swap toolblocks, as opposed to
seconds for a good QCTP. Not a big deal to me, maybe a big deal to
you. As the tools stay mounted, once shimmed they always end up at
the same place. Granted shimming takes more time than adjusting a
QCTP holder, but I make the blocks to put indexable carbide tips on
center, which are used for 90 percent of my work. I figure I can
make a toolblock in about an hour tops, so making a few extras isn't
a big deal. Not the way to think in a pro shop, you lose money
spending 3 hours to save $150 bucks, but OK for a home shop. Course
if you don't have a mill making a toolpost is a lot more time
consuming, folks seem fairly pleased with the HF and Phase II
offerings. The only QCTPs I've used are Aloris, love them, but I
can't justify the cost for my needs and am loath to send money to
the PRC. :-) I have the lantern toolposts for several of my lathes,
but almost never mount them. Basically I despise the little beasts,
but they are useful for mounting some oddball or older style tools.
With a cross bar through the lantern, tooling stack on one side and
packing to match the tool stack height on the other, you can use
them as a strongback clamp for some applications. Stan (3383) |
| Dave, Can't
speak too much to piston vs. wedge, but I'm happy with my HF QCTP
(piston). I also use my lantern tool post to reach into tight spots
that the QCTP cannot. I won't give up either one. I used to have a
couple four-position turret tool posts. I miss them and I'll
probably make some more, but first I need to make more QCTP tool
holders ;-) Paul R. (3385) |
| I bought a
QCTP from Harbor Freight, piston type, and am very pleased with it,
and 69.99 was the right price also. I have never used the rocker
type toolpost (as it was intended to be used) as mine is missing a
few parts. If you get the QCTP you will have to machine the plate
that goes into the T-slot, for me that included some creative use of
my 4 jaw chuck, jury rigging what I had of a rocker toolpost, and a
12 inch file, but I had fun doing it GG Matt Pierce
(3388) |
| Stan, I f you
don't like sending your money to the help support the reeducation
camps, then you might check out www.krfcompany.com USA made. I've
seen someone copy this design with aluminum clamps. They drilling an
array of spot faced drill tips. Tom
(3392) |
| Phase II tool
post |
| Does anyone have
experience with the Phase II clone of the Aloris wedge type
toolpost? I'm going to buy a QC toolpost, and good-condition Aloris
posts sell used for $300-$350 on eBay, but a Phase II clone is under
$200 new. Is there any reason at all to spend the extra money on the
Aloris? Mark
(3423) |
| Mark Not
unless you were one of the guys that bailed out of Enron before the
collapse. Try the HF 39083 currently on sale for 79.99 normally
99.99 it is a India clone of the Phase II Taiwan clone of the Aloris
tool post. The Phase II is pricey enough although HF has the Phase
II for 109.99 and Enco has it for 129.99 so why would any one want
to pay the Aloris price unless they had just got away with something
and needed to hide the proceeds. JWE (3425) |
| There have
been recent threads on this topic. I think that the reason genuine
Aloris brand posts demand higher prices is that they are
manufactured with higher tolerances and guarantee repeatability of
something like 0.0001". Not true of the Indian copies. For many of
us home shop machinists, this doesn't matter, as we are not doing
repeat production work. However, some of us may just like the smooth
feeling and easy utility of a well made piece of equipment, as the
Aloris is. A difference in designs is whether the toolpost uses a
"wedge," or a "piston" to lock the dovetail of the holder. The wedge
design is supposed to be better for repeatability. I mentioned about
3 weeks ago on this board that Rutland Airgas was having a sale on
wedge style sets, Prestige brand, for $109. I think this is a really
good compromise between the cheapest (Harbor Freight, which is a
piston type) and the most expensive (Aloris). If I needed a set now,
I would order this one from Airgas. I think it is comparable in
quality to PhaseII. Here is the address of the message and link to
subsequent replies:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/message/3144
I recently saw a sign in a store that said something like, "THE
BITTER TASTE OF POOR QUALITY FAR OUTLASTS THE INITIAL SWEETNESS OF
LOW PRICE." Jon (3426) |
| Mark, I
recently purchased the Phase II piston type set for my 10" SBL. I
was pleasantly surprised at the quality and it works just fine! I
like it much better than fumbling with the lantern style post. I
would definitely buy another PhaseII product (but I'm not making my
living from my lathe either so a hobbyist's point of view). Tim Q
(3427) |
| I
will put it this way. Yes the 39083 is a little cheap but very
functional. The Enco, Rutland and other house brand items are Phase
II and there is no measurable difference between them and Aloris but
the price. The funny thing is I have had them quoted out and Aloris
could compete price wise with HF if they would be satisfied with
normal profit margins. From the quotes I got on making them from
several companies they are making 5 to 6 times what average
companies make on stuff they sell in other words the Enron type ouch
factor just like Sherline. JWE (3431) |
| There ARE
differences in tool posts. I can't recommend an Enco or equivalent tool post. Worked
with a few of them, and IMHO, it's not fun. Different size screws in
the holders, different size dovetails. One time the handle will lock
down a holder at 3 0'clock, the next holder will clamp with the
handle at 9 o'clock. Then you can either beat the handle to death
with the chuck jaws, remove the handle, or try a different holder. I
would never use something of that quality if I wanted to actually
make money. At home, I run the old 13" SB more as a hobby, a hobby
I would rather enjoy than being frustrated with. Depends what value
you put on that. I spent a few hundred bucks extra and got an
Aloris. Couldn't be more please with it. Again, IMHO, it is worth
it.
(3436) |
| As I said
there are some who are so grossly overpaid they can afford to waste
money while the rest of us need to budget for the tools we buy and
get the most value we can. While others will pay premium prices for
a brand name label that is not functionally different than a cheaper
model so they can brag about how much more they paid than the rest.
Like I said some made money from Enron and other similar deals while
the majority took a cold bath in reality. JWE (3437) |
| JWE,
you're probably right. Me, I'm just a grunt, shift working machinist
for the last 29 years. But I still enjoy it enough to do it at home
as a hobby. Have used all kinds of tool posts, and the cheap ones
are, well....cheap, they're adequate for occasional use. The Aloris,
IS functionally different (see below). Maybe everyone doesn't have a
need or want to justify it, but claiming they are all the same, just
is not true! I will continue to spend my hard earned hourly wages
for a quality American made product. No regrets. (3439) |
| I'll
chime in here too. Admittedly, I don't have quite as much experience as
some of you (I've only been hacking metal for 25 years) but the Aloris
are well worth their price. Smooth operation, rigid locking, and LOOONG
lasting. I recently bought a used one from Meridian Machinery.And even though it was many years old, it
still worked like new, and is still being used daily. (3441) |
| Scott On the
value for price issue with Aloris I will very much have to disagree.
I am working in manufacturing now and have worked in retail and
distribution and know how retail prices are calculated from
manufacturing cost. Now if Aloris was priced at where Enco and
others are pricing Phase II they would be on about a normal cost
profit margin factor. They are pricing there product much higher
than that by several times. I know about these things because I work
with them on a daily basis. The company I work for has brought all
the work we do on-shore from Taiwan, Japan, China and Mexico because
we figured out how to do the work at the right price. But we had to
give up the extreme profits and wages some of the Enron mentality
people seem to think is their god given right and work for more
normal and reasonable wages. By doing this and with high volume
production methods we still make pretty good money without ripping
people off. Of coarse we had to give up the 20 room mansions, 50
foot yachts and other things of that type but as we never had them
we do not really miss them. America could still be the manufacturing
center of the world if the people that run the companies would get
back to reality and learn to live a normal and reasonable life style
instead of trying to live like rock stars or sports heroes. Like I
said American companies can still be competitive in the world market
if they really wanted to compete! JWE (3442) |
| The
difference between an Aloris and a low end import QCTP is quite
significant. Not to say the imports aren't OK, but after looking at
some of the imports and having used Aloris, there is more to it than
the label. I certainly wouldn't claim that the imports are
functional equivalents of an Aloris, Dorian, or KDK. They may look
pretty similar, but they are not as well made. You can feel the
difference in the first second the tooling is in your hands. I can't
afford the expense of an Aloris for the home shop, so I use tool
blocks. I also prefer these over the import stuff I've looked at. If
I were to buy an import toolpost from a PRC vendor, it would likely
be the Phase 2. I've seen too many marginal products from the other
vendors. If you want cheap and accurate, block style tool holders
can't be beat, especially when you get you metal from the scrap
yard. Man made diamonds are functional equivalents to the real
thing, at least for scribing and truing grinding wheels, but they
aren't the same thing. By your logic, am I simply buying bragging
rights to wealth when I buy name brand mikes rather than $7 c clamps
the PRC labels as "precision inspection tooling" ? Even when I buy
them used and recondition and calibrate them, or get them on sale? I
think it is a mistake to buy solely on price, buying the cheapest or
the most expensive just to spend the most or least isn't a good way
to select tools. Stan (3443) |
| I second this
comment. I have a number of lathes so my biggest expense in tooling
a new lath is a new tool post. With these machines I have acquired
various items. The US made stuff interchanges from tool post to tool
post of the same size. The same cannot be said for the import stuff.
I have foreign tool post that won't take Aloris holders and foreign
holders that won't fit on Aloris tool posts. Beyond tat they don't
seat properly and are not as ridged. I have holders that are so far
out of tolerance that you can't even get the holder onto the tool
post. In defense of those who use foreign stuff the worst stuff in
the shop is made in India. That stuff goes in the scrap bin. I now
keep the foreign stuff separated off in the box of last resort. Yasmiin (3444) |
| I confess I had no idea my toolpost question would
become an ideological debate. :-) For what it's worth, here's a
summary of what I've gleaned from the discussion. There seem to be 3
classes of toolposts: 1) Low-end The Harbor Freight class. For $89
you get not only a toolpost and 5 holders, but a drill chuck and a
knurling tools too! Clearly, this has to be relatively low quality
at this price (they aren't including an Albrecht chuck here, and I
don't think anyone is going to suggest the only difference between a
$10 chuck and an Albrecht is price) The difference in quality
between this and the mid-range (Enco) and high-end (Aloris) would be
immediately noticeable to anyone, even if the difference weren't
worth the price delta to said individual. The difference in actual
measurable performance, such as repeatability and longevity, rules
out this class of tool for serious production work. The relatively
lower quality in terms of "feel" and such, also rules this out for
hobbyist "connoisseurs", but this is somewhat more subjective than
in the production case. Despite being cheap, they are adequately
functional and preferred by the very price-conscious hobbyist. 2)
Mid-range The likes of Phase II and Enco house-brand, from $200-$300
for the standard package of toolpost and 5 holders (no tooling).
These are "quality imports". There may be some disagreement about
whether the quality of this class is immediately distinguishable
from the high-end for the hobbyist user class. Some people think so,
some don't. And if there are differences, they are relatively
subtle, compared to the low-end. On the other hand, there are real
differences in quality applicable to a production environment. For
example, the Enco guarantees .0001 repeatability, and the Dorian
guarantees .00001 repeatability. This is recommended for the
price-conscious but finicky hobbyist, who will find the higher
quality feel and performance over the low-end to be worth the extra
$100-200 spent, but who wouldn't need the precision repeatability
and longevity that an Aloris would provide. 3) High-end Aloris,
Dorian, etc. The cream of the crop. Unsurpassed quality (precision,
feel, longevity). Extraordinary price. You pay a premium for the
best, and the manufacturer and middlemen get a premium profit too.
Often justifiable on pure economic grounds for the serious
production shop, because of the precision, repeatability, etc. The
super connoisseur hobbyist will notice and enjoy the superb quality.
The snobby hobbyist may think it confers some status on them.
Capitalist pig hobbyists who have grostequely enriched themselves
exploiting the labor of regular red-blooded Americans will buy these
(but they will still be third-rate machinists despite their fancy
toys) Spending another $50-100 over the quality import for a used
Aloris may be worth it to the serious, finicky hobbyist. Based on
this understanding, I now know what I will do. Mark (3445) |
| Mark; I do
believe you have summed the entire thread up quite well! Took quite
an interesting route to get here didn't it? :-) Have fun and enjoy
your work, whatever tools you may select, Stan (3446) |
| I agree with JWE. Our American jobs going overseas has nothing to do with
real-dollar [after adjusting for inflation] wages and benefits being
cut continuously for the last 20 years while executive salaries in
real dollars have quintupled--witness my neighbor's experience where
business at his job slowed down a bit so they cut everyone's
benefits and profit-sharing and stopped company contributions to the
401K. The very next day the CEO shows up in his new company car, a
'Silver Shadow' or 'Silver Ghost' or 'Silver Proctoscope' or some
name like that. 'Silver something' anyway. My neighbor walks up to
the CEO and says "Nice wheels. You need a vanity plate to go with
it. How about 401K?" and walks away... I buy American. I bought an
American-made cellular phone a while ago--thinking nothing other
than political reasons to buy American at the time. Today my current
job depends on my current employer continuing to sell cell-phone
parts to that American maker of cell phones.(3447) |
| Not to ruin
you day but Aloris represents a mid range tool post. The quality
stuff is Multi Quick and Milti Fix tool posts which are made in
where else but Switzerland. I would toss my Aloris stuff for those
any day but I have only a couple of machines with Multi Fix's and
can't afford to convert the whole shop. They came on a couple of
lathes I bought in Germany. Yasmiin(3448) |
| There are
actually two more classes of tool post. There is the Swiss type and
the econo version of it. I don't see the Swiss type in the MSC
catalog I have (98/99). These were more expensive than Aloris or
Dorian. They were around $800 for the smaller ones. They were a
spline so you could angle the tool to various degrees. KRF makes a
version of this. Look at www.krfcompany.com US made too. Tom (3449) |
| A buddy of
mine who owns a body shop and who builds Harleys as a hobby [as do
I] said it best when we were speaking of specialty tools: "First I
buy whatever's cheapest. If I use it often enough to wear it out or
break it, I buy a Snap-On. If I don't wear it out or break it, it's
good enough." As to my non-specialty tools [wrenches, sockets, etc],
for one example I've made so many trips back to Sears to exchange
broken and worn-out Crapsman I gave up on them and use Snap-On. Yeah,
Snap-On DO cost an arm and a leg. Not because I'm a tool snob, but
because I've just plain plain worn out every other brand there is
within the first year or two of owning it...but I have Snap-On
wrenches in my rollaround that were my Grandpa's that are 50 or 60
years old and still going strong. (3450) |
| Good point. I am
aware of those, but they are also a different functional style (splined
multi-position), as well as perhaps in another "class". I only meant
to address the quality "classes" of the Wedge style. Although I had
intended to stay away from the ideological angle of this thread,
with the mention of the Swiss-type and the Swiss-class of tool, I
now find it hard to resist a brief foray down that rat hole, which
I'll take with this little rhetorical question: How come no one
refers to Swiss tools as "imports"? Mark (3451) |
| Lurch: Before
I had to close my shop I used Snap-On tools, like you when I went to
using my Craftsman tools on a daily basis to make a living I was
spending more time drive to Sears than I was making money. But now
that I have had to close the cycle shop and don't have the dollars
coming in, and only work on my stuff and help a few friends out once
in awhile, I will change back to Craftsman tools which I believe are
fine for the hobbyist and home mechanic. Man I sure am glad I bought
my Snap-On tool boxes before the doctors screwed me up. I went
through about 4 sets before I got these. Randy (3452) |
| Aloris
maybe with a very small premium over Phase II because I have one of
each and several of the HF and between the Phase II and the Aloris
there is so little physical difference that if you took the labels off
it would be very difficult to tell them apart. Now to the Dorian and
KDK, these are in another world entirely. The design engineering is
probably the worst for function I have ever in my life seen. At least
Phase II copied the one that that was well designed, they could have
copied the Dorian or KDK and then we would have been forced to pay the
Aloris price to have a useable tool post that is better than the old
lanter and 4 way kind. Now that thought makes me shudder because we
have a KDK on one machine at work and no one wants to use it ever
because it is so clunky to set up and adjust not at all like the
Aloris/Phase II type. The block type someone mentioned are far better
in use and performance than either Dorian or especially KDK. I might
even prefer a lantern post to a KDK it is close. If someone wants to
rate them by the numbers Aloris/Phase II House brand clones of same. HF
39083 Mert type tool blocks Dorian Lantern type KDK. JWE (3453) |
| Lurch;
Hang on to that old Snap-On stuff! They are starting to make some
tools that are far inferior to their old line sadly. A buddy of mine
that's a mechanic has been calling the local Snap-On guy to replace
quite a few new tools that have turned out to be fairly cheap in
quality, while still carrying Snap-On prices. Snap-On is also getting
pretty snotty about swapping out tools, trying to blame failures on
the user rather than defects. The last go around was a flare wrench
that snapped off a jaw while removing a tranny cooler line. The
local guy tried to blame my buddy, insisting he had a piece of pipe
on the wrench. They guy knows so little about the tools and their
application that he couldn't grasp that the fitting would have
rounded off with that much force . At least Sears hands you a new
tool that day, rather than having to wait for the weekly truck stop.
Speaking of which, have you noticed the trucks have started skipping
weeks at a time, and the Lawson and PAI guys don't even bother
coming around the shops anymore? Really sorry state of affairs.
Stan (3455) |
| Mark, your
brushing the debate aside and looking at the technical is good. What
I didn't see was the discussion of 'button' style vs. Wedge style.
Button styles suck. period. Notice Aloris and Dorian would not even
put their name on them. I have a HF button style and after 6 months
of light and occasional use the handle will only secure 3 of the 5
blocks. Also, I can put in any block and have it +/- 0.03 inches
from center. That is side to side. yes, there is that much slop in
the lousy design. Aloris claims repeatability to within 0.000?
ten thousandths of an inch!! There is that much play in the poor
design. JWE has repeatedly beat up on the lousy cross slide/tool post
mount because of poor design. the button style is even worse. If you
get a cheap unit, spend the extra $50 and get a wedge. Second, the 'recommended'
for smaller lathes is the AXA size, and you are limited to smaller
tools. if you can, get the BXA size, it will hold larger tools and
you should not have a problem getting them to the proper height.
MUCH more useful if you ever plan on getting indexable tool holders.
Dave (3461) |
| Yasmin,
you are probably correct. I used an Aloris for years on production,
cutting nickel for plane parts. During that time, I think I went
through over $100.000 worth or Kennametal inserts. Also during that
time, I had ZERO defects from tooling. tolerance +/- 0.0005" The
Aloris repeated perfectly. I would check the first three parts in
the morning, one after break and one before and after lunch and
another one or two in the afternoon. I am sure you can get better
than than, but I would not have known it. Roughing, I would take a
1/4 inch deep cut. that's a half inch off the diameter. then a light
cut change the insert and a finish cut. On my Model C, I don't take
a 0.05 cut very often. so the forces we are dealing with on these
small machines do not require the massive forces in holding tools.
BTW, it is really neat to cut steel and watch it come off blue, then
turn silver as it cools. The red tip of the insert could be seen as
the coolant splashed away. Dave (3463) |
| JWE, I
respectfully disagree that you would put the 39083 anywhere on your
list but the 'avoid at all costs' column. It does hold for light
cuts. agreed. it makes switching tools MUCH easier. agreed. but ANY
other style is SO MUCH More repeatable that it is like putting the
HF sockets on the same list with, no... rating them higher than
Craftsman. The button style is more like a dollar store wrench. (put
explicative here) I will agree that a copy of a truly well
engineered design is only flawed by the materials and tolerance of
the materials, but a poor design is just like a dollar store copy.
worth less than you pay for it. Dave
(3465) |
| Dave Why do
you think I put the KDK at the bottom and the Dorian is not much
better. And the HF is very much better but while not quite a Phase
II it is better than anything on my list below it. And what you call
the button type I have been using since the mid 70s with an Aloris
and a Phase II both piston type. And they are accurate and
repeatable. As I have said before many times and when I have reason
to again I will just because some one spends to much for something
is no reason to defend the highly overpriced item. Oh and the Phase
II wedge type on the 12x36 at work is not as good as the piston one
on my SB by a long shot. Now that one is cruder than the HF 39083.
Now maybe it is not Phase II though Enco says it is. JWE (3469) |
| JWE, My
39083 is a piece of junk. the play in locating is terrible and on
heavy cuts the holder will shift and dig in deeper. Aloris will be
repeatable tool post to tool post. the HF units may have a lot of
variation from unit to unit. I think on the 7x10 list there has been
suspicion that when one company rejects goes on sale at HF. Did you
get a 'good' one, probably. does a great machinist make great parts
with adequate tools ? yes. does a poor machinist make good parts
with adequate tools ? that is a maybe. will they make better parts
with great tools? most definitely. chatter, tool movement, poor
repetition of tool location, will all but be eliminated buy a good
tool design AND manufacture. I believe that you have pleaded that
case while talking about the cross slide design on most smaller
lathes. a poor design will cause problems for those who do not know
how to work around them. In my discussions with those who use high
dollar high quality tool posts, it is almost 1 for 1 that they have
no complaints. in fact I do believe you are the only person I have
ever had the pleasure to talk with that didn't rate the Aloris with
top honors. Many of those suffered the same problems I have. cheaper
tool post = more problems. Does Aloris make a piston type ? I have
not seen one in the catalogues nor in a shop. I can state for fact
that my HF unit is wildly un repeatable. the clamping action if
vastly different with the same holder if I put it in the turning
slots or facing slots. As I said, two of my holders will not even
clamp in the turning location. My question to you is, how much
clearance does your HF unit have on the lands that are adjacent to
the piston ? Mine has more than a 1/16" that much play allows the
tool to be angled more than 0.03" to one side or the other. that's a
range of about a 1/16 of an inch. I make good parts and am happy
that my parts are usually within a few tenths of my blueprints. but
then I do mostly aluminum. case hardened steel ? VERY light cuts.
sometimes 0.005" per pass. ditto for stainless, light cuts. tools
wear out faster when the tip has to pass by that much metal. My next
tool post will be a wedge type, probably a phase II, but it will go
back if it has anywhere near the slop of the HF unit. I do believe a
great design poorly executed is better than a poor design greatly
executed. I think with a great design, you rarely hear people asking
"where are we going and why are we in this hand basket" Dave (3471) |
| I always
advocate being cost conscious but there comes a breakeven point
where the savings do not outweigh the quality or function. As the
old saying goes, you can scream once or you can scream twice.
(3474) |
| I agree with JWE and Lurch. Try this, company annual employee and family day
cancelled as well as bonus' so the president could afford his
dragster and...he and the three top managers could split a fairly
huge pot of money four ways. Geeeeee, and they wonder why there is
no employee loyalty anymore. Ben (3475) |
| Everyone my
know this but Phase II makes tool posts smaller than AXA. There are
great for 1.2, 2, 3 inch center height lathe. Not every dealer
carries them. Yasmiin (3477) |
| Well, here I
go again (asbestos undies on). First off, one of your comments is
factually false. Aloris *DID* put there name on the piston style
toolpost, that was the original design! Second, I have a couple of
wedge style, and a couple of piston style, and both work quite well.
I can repeat with the piston style as close as the lathe can. I
believe, from my limited experience (!) that the wedge style is a
bit more rigid, due to larger clamping area, but once again, for
smaller machines, such as South Bend, Logan, et al, either style is
quite adequate. Scott S. Logan (3479) |
| Interesting.
I know the 7x10 mini lathes need a smaller tool post. so there is a
market for them. the problem when one gets smaller holders is that
the range of tool holders becomes more and more limited. By the way
Mike, (I think you started this thread) when you buy a QC holder,
you can save a lot of headaches if you buy a hardened T block for
the lock down from almost any catalogue. These are like the ones
used in milling machines to hold parts down. should be around $3.00.
Get the one that does not have through threads. the thread are not
tapped all the way through so the bolt will not go through and push
the nut up. If you push the nut up, you can very easily break the
castings. (this would be a bad thing) Dave (3480) |
| Scott Yes my
first AXA (100) tool post purchased in the mid 70s is an Aloris
piston type. My second purchased in the late 80s is a Phase II.
Putting the two side by side and examining very close the only
difference I can see between them is what it says on the metal tag rivited on the side. To me they are identical. JWE
(3482) |
| You got it
correct..."the only difference I can SEE between them", the word SEE
being important here. I have actually USED both import and ALORIS,
not just bought them. I agree with what seems to be the consensus
here, if you're going to personally use them much, the ALORIS is
much nicer. Buying a cheap tool post, just adds THAT cost to the
price of a quality tool when you decide to buy it. In the long run,
weather for business or hobby, the bottom line is improved with a
better functioning tool. JMHO, with no apologies. (3484) |
| If you want
to know the truth. I still have the Phase II while I let a friend
have the Aloris some ten years ago because the Phase II works better
and holds better repeatability. JWE
(3486) |
| Scott, I
stand corrected. I assumed that since I have never seen the Aloris
button/piston style that it was never made. Interesting that they
came up with a different style. Maybe they thought it was an
improvement ?? now, here is the question. clamp your empty holder on
the base. put an indicator on it. front corner so as to measure the
movement from the wing/wedge/dovetail, as the holder would move if
it were not clamped. zero the indicator. unclamp and twist the
holder as if a cutting tool were putting force on it as during a
cut. while exerting light finger pressure, clamp it. record reading.
repeat, but this time as if you were cutting in the opposite
direction. record reading. next, drop your holder onto the dovetails
as you normally would. do this 5 times and record each reading. I
did this, zeroed, got + 0.036" got - 0.042 inches. +0.002 +0.001
0.000 +0.003 +0.001 -0.002 I tried this on my friends Aloris zeroed.
0.0000 0.0000 then 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 had to use a
test indicator to even see if there was any movement. And I have
seem my holder move under heavy cuts of 0.05" on aluminum.
Accepting that I have a HF unit, a phase II knockoff, I am willing
to accept that I have the only sloppy unit made. I would be
interested to see your test results though. Dave (3487) |
| JWE, I
think we are all kind of agreeing in a few respects. First, we are
passionate about our own experiences. second, a well manufactured
tool is worth the money. in your case the Phase II obviously is well
made as if it were junk , your friend would be using that and you
would still have the better tool as per your experience. (not saying
one is better, just that your experience with one proved one was
better) third, and I don't think we really covered this in as much
depth, but many of us buy the lower cost parts to see it work, or
get started or to save money or various other reasons. what we find
is that sometimes the low cost tools worked well enough that
replacement is not necessary. for example I have a set of
combination wrenches from HF and have used that set for over 20 years. never
broke one. I admit that does not make them good, just heavy duty
enough from the work I threw at them. If the end, I think my overall
experiences is that I have saved tons more money on junk tools to
get the job done compared to the junk I had to toss when I replaced
it. Dave ps: if you want another piston type, I'll be more than
happy to trade you mine for and Aloris. heck, I'm not proud, I'll
even be happy to trade you for your old KDK or Dorian. (3489) |
| Mark, I have
a Phase II wedge type tool post and I use it all the time. Mounted
on my SB Heavy 10, works very well. Workmanship is excellent and it
came with several toolholders, paid $160 at ENCO on sale. B.G. (3493) |
| KRF toolpost |
| So does anyone have
the KRF, and can share experience and opinion? It appears
high-quality, USA-made, and very reasonably priced (similar to
"quality import" wedge systems). Mark (3454) |
| I have been
using the KRF system on a Southbend 10K for several years, and I
wouldn't trade it for anything. The selection of toolholders is
fantastic, including a really nifty carbide insert holder that uses
inexpensive TPG or TPU inserts. Just got another toolholder from
them this week, and a neat grinder adapter that turns a dremel or
die grinder into a toolpost grinder. This system is extremely rigid,
changes quickly, and has very easy tool height adjustment. If
anybody would like to chat about the KRF, feel free to email me.
Joe (3468) |
| Joe,
sounds like you have a winner. where did you get it? about how much
? and do you have a picture? post it in the photos section if you
can. I am looking for a replacement for my tool post. Dave (3472) |
| Preferred
aloris-style size for a 10K |
| I'm going to
upgrade to an Aloris clone. Should I get a AXA or a BXA for a 10K?
(3875) |
| My 10" Sheldon is sporting a
shop made copy of the AXA. It is quite rigid and has plenty of
height adjustment for any tool I have ever tried to mount. Don't
forget, the large your tool post the less room you have to work.
(3876) |
| AXA.
leay0 (3877) |
| I
have an Aloris AXA tool post for my 9" SB and I love it. I have eight
QC holders, (4) Phase II, (2) Aloris (purchased used) and (2) other,
Enco I think (250 series). I don't use carbide, I use Arthur R. Warners
3/8 holder and HSS inserts made by them. Works great and I can touch
them up myself if I want. Neil B. (3879) |
| Definitely an
AXA - the BXA is too big for the 10k. Ed R. (3904) |
| Toolholder |
| Similar in design
to one in the projects section on... umm... HALS? website. Got sick
of trying to find shims to suit the 4-way turret, so spent a couple
of evenings knocking up this one.
http://www.steammachine.com/hercus/toolholder.html Charlie
(4170) |
| Charlie, The
right side of both pages are cut off. Fred (4171) |
| Fred, You may
have to scroll across to read them. They are fine.
Charlie (4174) |
| Charlie, Nice
work. Looks like a solid design, and your finished work is
beautiful. Good pictures of the work in progress and of the finished
tool. Did you have to scale up the design to fit your lathe? Have
you made more than one holder? Thanks for the links to the article
and your pictures. Everyone enjoys seeing the work done by others.
Paul R. (4177) |
| Paul! I made
the design to the original size, because I had some 2" x 1" tool
steel on hand for the holders. I've made the one in the photo, plus
I have another two on the go at the moment. When I make more, I will
make them out of 1-1/4" thick material. This will let me add 1/16"
to the ledge below the tool, and make a 9/16" gap instead of 7/16"
so it will take 1/2" shank tools. The size as per drawing is ideal
for 3/8" shank tools, or 3/8" square HSS bits. Charlie
(4191) |
| Opinions on
Aloris? |
| I am ( considering
) buying a Aloris Tool post holder and 5 holders off e-Bay. They
seem to go around the $350 and up mark. The off shore ones are about
1/3 that. I presently use a block I milled that holds up to 4 bits.
Is there a big diff in Aloris and off shore ? I know there usually
is but I though for a toolpost holder once it's on tight then it's
not going to move no matter what type is holding it. Just looking
for some opinions before I decide.
(4340) |
| I have two
Phase II AXA size, wedge style toolposts on my lathes. I used Aloris
toolposts for years in my dad's shop, on large lathes. The Phase IIs
are not as well finished and don't operate quite as smoothly, but
they seem quite adequate and I'm very satisfied. I've noticed on my
SB9 that lack of rigidity comes from sources other than the
toolpost/holders. The holders are not hardened and I doubt the
toolpost is either, but haven't checked. I opted for the wedge style
but I understand the piston type holds well. I just felt there is
more gripping surface and likelihood of better repeatability with
the wedge style. Rick K. (4341) |
| The wedge
style tool posts are indeed more ridged although I am not sure how
significant that would prove to be on small lathes. My information
comes from some tests that were performed comparing the two styles.
Unfortunately I don't remember the source for this information. Does
anyone know why the piston and wedge types developed in parallel?
There is also the KDK tool posts that are very good but don't have
alternate makers like the Aloris does. As to quality, the Aloris is
certainly the front runner but I feel that tool posts like the Phase
II are of good quality and will provide excellent service. I think I
would be OK with tool posts made in Taiwan and even PRC but to be
avoided are tool posts made in India. I have gotten tool holders on
Ebay from India which couldn't be driven onto an Aloris tool post
(wedge style) with a sledge hammer let alone fit properly. Had I
known that they were from India I probably wouldn't have purchased
them in the first place? Thankfully the Ebay seller was honest and
simply refunded my money and told me to toss them which I did. As to
why wedge type is more ridged? It has to do with the geometry. The
piston style forces the V surfaces of the tool holder against the V
surfaces of the tool post. This leaves a gap between the tool post
flat surfaces and the flat surfaces of the tool holder. This gives
the tool holder the opportunity to rock under heavy loads. The wedge
style leaves no gaps between tool post and tool holder. Therefore
the wedge style is theoretically more ridged. Of course this assumes
that tool post and tool holder have ground surfaces that are held to
close matching tolerances or the whole concept becomes moot.
Yasmiin (4342) |
| I have a 9"
SB and to save money I purchased a new Aloris AXA wedge style Tool
Post and then I purchased Enco, Phase II and other tool holders as
needed. I felt that to have the best tool post and discard or return
holders if they don't work would be a poor man's best approach. I'm
pleased so far, all the holders I've purchased (seven, I believe)
work OK. The mix of brands necessitates various wrenches for
adjustment though. I desire a #8 threading holder and I probably
will have to pop for a new Aloris as most other's don't even make a
#8. Neil B. (4343) |
| Phase 2 tool
holders |
| Would someone who
owns one of the Phase 2 tool holders tell me where they are made.
Ed
(4346) |
| Box mine came
in is marked "China". Rick (4347) |
| I think the
Phase II tooling comes from everywhere. For example I purchased a R8
to Jacobs33 adapter from Enco, didn't use for over 3 months (their
return time maximum) and when I did use, the 7/16 thread was not
square with the R8 shank and I could not engage the drawbar more
than one or two threads. I thought, well I'll fix Enco, I'll just
order another and return the older defective one for a credit of
about $12. When I received the new one it was obviously of another
manufacturer than the first. The first adapter was stamped "Taiwan"
on the steel colored shank. The new one was in a box with "Made in
China" and the shank was black in color. I couldn't repack the old
in the new China wrappings in good faith so I just chalked it up to
experience. Obvious to me they buy wherever they get the best price.
Neil B. (4348) |
| I find it
very interesting, with all this talk (mostly in the mill-drill
community) about Taiwan quality being superior to Chinese quality,
and your experience, in this particular case, indicates just the
opposite. It just goes to show you, that broad, all inclusive,
absolute statements, don't always prove to be accurate. Mario (4349) |
| I don't own
any of them, but I looked at about 5 new ones for 13" and larger
lathes last Saturday, all were made in China (PRC), as are the AXA
piston style units I've seen. As far as I know, everything from
Phase II is from the PRC, certainly everything I've ever seen of
theirs is. Stan (4356) |
| Buying Enco
does not mean that you automatically get phase II. there are cheaper
vendors than phase II. If you look at msc, often there are choices
for import, phase II and USA. I have found that phase II quality is
consistently good. why don't you have a look a the phase 2 website
for more info? http://www.phase2plus.com/ all the phase 2 products
I
have gotten have been satisfactory or better for my needs. dp
(4364) |
| FWIW,
I just picked up twenty-two 5C collets all of them are Enco brand but
from what I see there's at least 4 separate vendors supplying them. All
of the collets are in Enco boxes but I have 4 distinct styles of
packaging and design. Some collets have "Enco" stamped on them and some
have manufactures stamps while still more ore just blank. A lot of
Phase II stuff is of Indian origin and the balance is seems to be
Chinese. Their indicators and such are Chinese while most of the cast
or ground items (rotary tables, collets, spindle sleeves, etc ) are
from India. The rotary Table *may* be Chinese, I know the LatheMaster
tables are Indian and pretty low end. I can't complain about any of the
Phase II stuff I have. I picked up their Co-Axial Indicator for $54 and
have been happy with it. Maybe the pricing has changed, I didn't get a
2002 catalog but last year a lot of Phase II stuff could be found in
other vendors catalogs noticeably cheaper than directly from Phase II.
Don't know if that's still the deal or not. Dave (4369) |
| In my tale of
the R8 adapter from Enco, the first from Taiwan and the second from
China, I should have stated that the Enco catalog # referred to both
as Phase II. Neil B. (4378) |
| I bought the
wedge Aloris BX TYPE (not Phase 2) tool holder on E bay for $155. It
was built in China. I am very pleased with the quality. I did not
want to pay for a name when the parts are likely identical. I was
looking for value. Ed (4399) |
| Ed, but
this one that's listed on e-bay is for lathes 12" swing and up and
I
have a 9" SBL. What size lathe did you mount the one you bought?
(4402) |
| BXA on Heavy
10? |
| Just curious,
anyone use a BXA tool post on their Heavy 10? They are said to fit
from 10" to 15" machines. Marty
(4668) |
| Marty: I just
got a Phase II AXA for my 9" and haven't taken it to the shop yet
but is sure looks too big setting here on the table. Is the BXA
quite a bit larger? Randy (4670) |
| The BXA is
BIG! I just received mine for my 13" and am about to machine the
piece that fits into the compound. For reference, the overall width
of the BXA is 3". It's very heavy - can't wait to use it! Jeff
(4672) |
| I use an
Aloris AXA on my little 10" S-series Sheldon, which in scale and
design is equivalent to a heavy 10. The AXA is perfect for the
Sheldon (which has an 11-1/4" swing), and I think it would also work
well on the SB 10L. I used the same AXA toolpost on my Clausing 5900
(12-1/4" swing), but the tool holders were short and I had to
sometimes use shims or mill top relief into the holders for more
adjustment nut travel. No need for this adjustment on the 10"
Sheldon. Rigidity of the Aloris AXA has never been an issue, but BXA
is definitely a better size for a 12" lathe because of the taller
tool holders. I now have a Dorian BXA toolpost for my 12" Clausing
but I think it might be too tall for the Sheldon and probably
awkward to use. I think AXA would probably "work" on a 15" lathe but
would require a riser on the cross slide to bring it to the proper
height. FYI, Dorian AXA toolposts are 2-1/4" tall and BXA are
2-3/4." James (4678) |
| You can get
away with use of the BXA No.1 No.2 holders for most operations with
the SBL 10". You run into trouble with holders for specialty
operations like boring, threading, and knurling. You often cannot
get the holder to go low enough to center properly. And you do not
get the ebay bargains until you get into the C and D size. HSM's
don't buy the big stuff. We operate AXA size on our 6 heavy 10's
here. Bite the bullet, and get the correct size. jmcalli (4680) |
| Bite the
bullet? Hmm, lemme say that I nearly stole a BRAND new Aloris Tool 7
piece tool post set. I was hoping to use it on my Heavy 10 once I
got it restored. I have a LeBlond 15" with a CXA import set I
*could* put it on. Be happy to trade a new Aloris BXA 7 piece set
for a new Aloris AXA 7 piece set. :-) Marty (4683) |
| Dorian Tools
"Quadra" Tool Post |
| The Dorian Tools
"Quadra" quick change index tool post can lock in 4 tool holders
simultaneously, and also index every 15 degrees (24 positions in 360
degrees) and the claimed tool R R (removal and replacement) is 50
millionths. It is a bit expensive, and the toolholders do not appear
to be interchangeable with the more inexpensive AXA/BXA/... series,
from what I can tell. Has anyone had any experience with this Tool
Post? Their URL is http://www.doriantool.com Doug
(4726) |
| Aloris AXA
question |
| I recently
purchased an Aloris AXA piston style toolpost (used) with a few
toolholders. I don't believe the holders are Aloris, and they look a
little different than what I have seen in most pictures. Instead of
a thumbwheel and nut for height adjustment, they have a set screw
that goes down through the bottom of the holder. The problem I have
is that the set screw doesn't hit anything - it comes down outside
the edges of the compound rest. It looks like there is room for a
1/4" thick disk between the compound rest and the bottom of the
toolpost - is there supposed to be something like this? Also, a few
of the holders will lock on one side of the post, but not on the
other side. Is there an adjustment for how far out the pistons
travel, or some other way to adjust this? Better yet, is there an
online instruction manual or exploded diagram of the piston style
holder? Scott (5646) |
| Scott
Sounds like the holders may be KDK holders. I have a KDK and it
adjusts that way. Just got an Aloris; like it a lot better. See eBay
item 1748614775. do they look like that? Don t know much about the
AXA; my lathe takes a CXA. So far I haven t found ANY info on Aloris
(a friend of mine bought a new one; said it had no literature
included. I emailed Aloris (about a week ago) but no reply.
Lew (5647) |
| Scott (and Lew) I have a FIMS toolholder, and they also adjust with a setscrew,
so that is another possibility. On my FIMS the setscrew goes in the
top of the holder at about the middle of the inside of the V, and
picks up a post which protrudes from the tool post. If yours doesn't
look like the Ebay picture of the KDK Jim pointed to they could be
FIMS. I don't have a picture handy unfortunately. Frank
(5649) |
| I
have a KDK and it adjusts that way. Just got an Aloris; like it a
lot better. See eBay item 1748614775.do they look like that?
Don’t know much about the AXA; my lathe takes a CXA. So far I
haven’t found ANY info on Aloris (a friend of mine bought a
new one; said it had no literature included. I emailed Aloris (about
a week ago) but no reply. No, they don't look like that. They fit on
the Aloris toolpost just fine, it's just that there is nothing to
catch the adjusting screw underneath. They sound like what Frank
describes - the setscrew goes in from the top, about centered on the
V. The toolpost itself has the Aloris plate on it, the holders just
have numbers, no makers ID that I can determine. Scott
(5650) |
| Well, can t
say I've ever seen one like that. I'll bet someone will have seen
one, though. Lew (5651) |
| That's what
I'm kind of hoping! Scott (5652) |
| Lew, I'm
surprised you did not get a response from Aloris. I called them a
while back, talked with a tech. person on how to remove the
adjusting screw and he sent me a 2 free adj. screws and a new
catalog. I have the AXA by the way but I don't recognize the holder
Scott describes. I suggest call Aloris, 973-772-1201. Neil (5659) |
| I called Aloris this morning as well and talked to a
very helpful tech person. On the piston style toolpost, he said the
holes in the center of the pistons are threaded, and if you make a
puller you can pull both pistons out approximately 1/8"
simultaneously, then remove the lever assembly through the top. He
said both pistons should extend the same amount, and one is probably
just worn more than the other. I will see if I can shim it somehow
from the inside. I looked at the MSC online catalogue, and my
holders look very similar to the DTM holders, but they do not have
DTM stamped on them. The DTM holders have a set screw with a
recessed allen socket in the top, as mine do, and I am now
suspecting that I may not have gotten the thumb wheel and nut for
the tops of my holders. What I can't see in the MSC pictures is if
the set screws in the DTM holders go all the way through to the
bottom. Either way, I could make up some thumb wheel screws and buy
some nuts and use mine that way. One of the holders I got is a
radius cutter, but I have no idea how it works. The front portion
that holds the cutter pivots 90 degrees, but I don't see any way to
control it, other than to secure it in a fixed position. Anyone have
any insight on this? Scott (5660) |
| Neil I
need a couple of the adjustment screws myself, I'll call them.
Lew (5661) |
| That's not a
radius cutter that's an adjustable angle cutter for times when you
don't want to move the base ( as in threading) you can adjust the
tool. we have a few of theses at work but don't use them much. (5666) |
| SB Tool holder
Post |
| I need advice on
the type of tool holders I need to get for my 9" SB I am getting
kind of confused with all the choices on Ebay, most do not give
descriptions that are satisfactory and will work with the lathe.
Also does any one know where I might obtain a tool post Holder. Then
I need to know what all would I need to run Drill Chucks on the Tail
stock and head stock, I am trying to learn the differences in what
they call Morse tapers, etc. Clint
(5667) |
| Clint: I just
purchased a #100 (AXA size) Phase II tool post kit that comes with 5
holders and it is great. The Headstock on my 9" model A has a #3 MT
and the tailstock has a #2 MT I have Jacobs chucks for both. Just
look for chucks with these tapers on them if you have a 9" SB lathe.
Randy
(5675) |
| Check here:
eBay item # 1757112403 has a fair through-capacity and is a good
quality item. you probably wont find these made anywhere new these
days. they don't often come up on eBay but they are quite handy to
have, and if needed you can always use them to hold a smaller chuck
with a straight arbor, or a pin vise if you need to hold a really
small part or tool. they are also something of a onesie as not too
many other mfg appear to have sold them. this may not have the grip
to hold a big carbide mill or fly cutter if you are doing heavy cuts
but are fine for most other work, both holding tooling and the
workpiece itself. I have a soft steel ( i.e. made from CRS ,not
hardened tool steel) end mill holder with a grub screw to hold the
mill, and i tighten up fairly good on that with this chuck. this is
the size that works fine as both a tool holder and a work holder -
great for turning down drill shanks or holding for cutting 3
concentric flats, and all kinds of smaller diameter stuff. The
hardened jaws stay fairly close to parallel, but don't actually have
the surface area that you would get with a close- fitting collet. SB
(5681) |
| I agree I
have one of these chucks and even though I have not actually used a
dial indicator to see how true it runs, I can see with the naked eye
it runs truer than my 3 jaw chuck. I believe Jacobs were the only
ones that made them. Mine looks like new and is in very good shape.
I have used it to hold some small end mills for milling and has
worked very well. Just don't tighten it too hard so you need a pipe
wrench to get it off. Alex
(5683) |
| How about the old tool post? I have not seen one of them
either. Clint (5684) |
| You need an
AXA size tool post http://www.billstoolcrib.com/
http://www.jtsmachine.com/Default.htm
these guys have them for around $100.00 and on eBay. The MT tapers
are simple and the other post covered them except for the fact that
you don't need two drill chucks or a larger dead center to use one
in the spindle. what you need is a MT 3 to 2 sleeve. as for holding
an end mill in a drill chuck, don't you will ruin the chuck drill
chucks no matter who makes the are on designed to take a radial load
and continued use in this way will turn a good chuck into a paper
weight. use an end mill holder either a weldon style or a collet. or
just use your 3 jaw. Kerry (5696) |
| Clint, The
old lantern style tool posts that were standard with our SB lathes
when they were built have mostly been replaced by the quick change
posts, because the QC posts are more rigid and easier to change. The
most common type of QC post is the dovetail style, where the tool
holder drops in from above. Of those styles, there is the "wedge
type" and the "piston type". The wedge type costs a little bit more,
and is supposed to position the toolholder with more repeatable
accuracy. As with many tools, American (Aloris, Armstrong, etc.) or
Japanese (Yuasa) made QC posts are considered to be superior quality
and more expensive than those manufactured in China. Phase II is
supposed to be a good brand, sort of a compromise between Aloris and
the cheapest available from Harbor Freight. You can look for special
sales from the machine tool suppliers like Enco or Rutland. From my
catalogs I see that Penn Tool www.penntool.com has a complete set
of 6 holders plus wedge type toolpost ("Precise" brand, probably
from China, catalog number 251- 111) for $175. You might be able to
get a better deal on eBay or elsewhere. Also, the correct size for a
9-inch lathe would be the "AXA" series. The Aloris and Phase II and
Harbor Freight, etc., holders are supposed to be interchangeable
within the same series. KDK, another high quality US manufacturer,
makes a different system which is not interchangeable with other
brands. Some good information on this subject comes from a book that
I bought, called _Machine Tool Practices_, by Kibbe, et. al. I think
it is a very good book for someone like me who is not professionally
trained. You can find this book on www.abe.com for a reasonable
price. I have the 5th edition, printed in 1995. You can get older
editions for less $, newer editions for more $$$. Jon
(5716) |
| Aloris Catalog |
| Has anyone here
been lucky enough to get a Aloris catalog? I've been trying since
January and have about give up. Sent them 4 or 5 e- mails and phoned
them twice but still no catalog. KBC tools can't even get me one and
I just bought a new Aloris toolpost and holders from them.
(5846) |
| I just
received one after filling out the request on their website. It took
about 3 - 4 weeks. Scott (5848) |
| Call Aloris
at 973-772-1201. They sent me one immediately. Neil B. (5850) |
| Armstrong/ J.H.
Williams #50 threading toolpost |
| Jerry, Cutting
Mauser threads are we? I looked at both KBC and MSC, they only list
the 60 degree cutter. Also, they seem to fit particular tool holder
numbers. Example: for Threading Tools, Number 83-621,or 83-623, or
83-637 takes part number 1-532-83647. Price is $94.07. KBC's number
is 1-800-322-4292. MSC is 1-800-645-7270. They might carry 55 degree
Whitworth, but they don't list them. MSC list the cutters as to size
of holder: 5/16X3/4X5 is 08640609 for extra cutters. They cost
$103.33 for this size and go up to $162.12. I'd hate to have to
regrind them at that price. Tom (6218) |
| You might
want to try J and L Industrial at 1-800-521-9520 or their web site
at www.jlindustrial.com (6219) |
| What's the
right QC Tool Post for a 13 SB |
| Can you buy a QC
Tool Post that will fit a 13" properly without machining the T foot?
BX CX sizes both include the 13".
(6823) |
| If you
purchase an Aloris BXA from Aloris; you can furnish the T-slot data,
and they will furnish the proper plate (foot).(6824) |
| Wedge or
piston toolpost? |
| So I want to
get a quick change toolpost for my 9" Workshop C lathe... Do I want a
piston or wedge type? Looks like the Harbor Freight piston type is
pretty reasonably priced ($110), so that's attractive, but its cheap
enough that I'm wondering why. Ebay has a couple wedge type
(Aloris and Phase II) toolposts for around $200 - $250. Should I
spend the extra money? Anything weird about mounting any of these to
my lathe? The review of the Harbor Freight toolpost in the Files
section indicates that I'll have to cut down the t-slot mount. Is
that true with any of these? Mark
(6973) |
| I purchased a
Phase II wedge style tool post. I have heard these were a little
more rigid. I have not used the piston style so I am not sure. I did
have to machine the t-slot nut. Other posts have said the Aloris
will supply the correct size but are a lot more $$$. Machining these
is not critical since it is just a nut. Robert (6979) |
| Mark: I got
the Phase II 100 (AXA) size piston type for my 9" A model and really
love it I think it was $99.00 on sale from Enco and it came with 5
different tool holders. Randy (6986) |
| I recently
purchased a wedge type , it is suppose to be more accurate (within a
.001) when resetting a holder than a piston style is, bought off
e-bay in a buy it now for 139.50 with shipping included, made in
China but very good finish and workmanship. It came with the nut,
had to machine to fit, 5 tool holders included. If my American made
Southbend don't know of the foreign built holder made in metric
sizes should be ok. Don't know what you was missing without one.
Tom (6989) |
| Williams
toolholder size |
| Anyone out
there know off the top of their head what's the shank size on a j.
h. williams #2050 toolholder? (8227) |
| Lurch I am
not sure but I may have one of them in my pile of larger tool
holders, if no one answers I will go through them and see if I do
and post the size if I have one. Clint (8231) |
| QC tool posts:
KDK vs. Aloris? |
| Does anyone have
some wisdom (or opinion) to pass along about these two types of QC
tool post? I'd like to replace the original-style rocker tool post
on my SB 9" with a more solid, convenient one - either an Aloris AXA
or a KDK 0. I like the low-profile and true two-tool-per-holder of
the KDK, but... I am drawn to the wide availability of the
Aloris-types (and the low cost of the knock-off brands).
(8658) |
| I will put it
this way, you will learn to love to hate the KDK line. The longer
you use one the less useful a single dovetail post is. JWE(8659) |
| I know this
isn't what you asked, but... The latest ENCO flyer has the Phase II
post sets for $89.00. I bought a HF version for the same price and
after fixing its problems I have been happy with it. From all
accounts Phase II is a large step in quality above Harbor Freight.
Glen (8661) |
| I just bought a piston phase II for my 10K. I really like
it, it is so much more rigid compared to the old rocker type. It is
much easier and faster to make the tool change and get the tool tip
set at the right height. The down side is that this more rigid post
will do more damage when you screw up. I slipped the flat belt the
other day and it is quite tight, a Baltimore Belt Co. two ply ,
leather inside and woven nylon backing to prevent stretching-nice
belt. A comment, I find that there are two important things
necessary to be a good machinist. First is knowledge of how to do
the job, which you can gain from books that I have rescued from
various sources. Second is skills which requires a lot of practice
which I may never have time to learn. DVC
(8663) |
| Like you I
was torn between KDK and Aloris. A lot of shops around here used the
KDK but availability of additional holders was limited. I finally
opted for the Aloris purchasing the authentic Aloris dovetail AXA
toolpost and then I have purchased other branded holders, Phase II,
Enco, etc. For threading and cutoff I did purchase authentic Aloris
again, the AXA-8 threading holder and the AXA-7 parting blade
holder. I'm very pleased with this arrangement although I may have
spent a little more than necessary for a home shop. Neil (8664) |
| That is how I got started into lathes! Bill (8665) |
| I got the ENCO flyer today also. My question is,
what's the
difference in the piston and the wedge in that Phase II ad? Besides
almost double the price. There's almost no difference in appearance
in the little picture. I also would like to update the old lantern
toolpost, but until these import quick change came along and then
started to discount them, I couldn't justify the cost (Well, ah, er,
that is the wife couldn't justify). Anyway, some explanation on these
two types would be greatly appreciated. I too think ENCO has a
better quality than Harbor Frt. Bill
(8673) |
| The piston
type has a cam driven piston that comes out normal to the face of
the dovetail. The wedge type has a dingus that expands the width of
the dove tail. The wedge should be more repeatable and less subject
to wear, I guess. For my home shop chip making, I don't think I
would improve chip quality that much with the wedge. Glen
(8675) |
| Bill; A
piston type QCTP has a plunger that shoves the toolholder away from
the toolpost, locking the toolholder against fixed dovetails with
pretty good repeatability. The plunger is the plate in between the
male dovetails on the toolpost. A wedge type expands one of the
toolpost dovetails, the fixed dovetail always acts as the reference.
The wedge type offers a bit more repeatability of settings (in the
tenths), while a piston type typically repeats to a thou or so.
Wedge type toolholders are a bit more rigid, the toolholder can't
wiggle around at all when taking a really heavy cut. Generally
speaking, most folks who don't push their machines to the limit or
who have smaller machines get fine results using a piston type
toolpost. Those who take the heaviest cuts possible on large
powerful lathes or use CNC and want to have a tool change be
repeatable to a very high degree of accuracy find the wedge type
preferable. Stan (8677) |
| I have a
Phase III piston type that came with my 10k. I use it a bit and it
is a nice addition. I use it mostly for parting - still like the
old lantern post best, but I'm set in my ways (pun, guys!) Would not
pay extra for the expanding dovetail type for general home use.
Frank (8681) |
| 10 in 1 tool
holders |
| From time to time
I've seen 10 in 1 tool holders come up for sale on e-bay. I have
seen them in the accessory catalogs and thought that they looked
like a good idea. Has anyone used one? Is it a good alternative to
the modern quick change, or are these primarily of historical
interest? My lathe is a well used 1942 heavy 10 which I appreciate
for it's history as much as usefulness. I'm just a hobbyist so I
don't really need the best. The 10 in 1 appeals to me, as long as it
won't prove to be to much of a handicap. Any thoughts? T (9523) |
| I have a 10 in 1
tool holder that I use on my 9" SB. It is more ridged than the
rocker post, but not as ridged as a modern quick change. The only
real gripe that I have with it is I can't find a cutoff tool that
fits it. Jim (9525) |
| I have used a 10in1
tool holder for years and they are great. The ones I have were made
by SB the finish is good and the fit of the parts is excellent. Mike
(9530) |
| Jim, I have used a
cutoff tool in my 10 in 1 I don't know the size right off hand but,
if I remember correctly they are a standard size and I had to grind
them just a little to get them to fit. Later today I will mich one
and email you the size. Mike (9532) |
| Tool holder
part needed |
| I'm in need of the
little round donut looking thing (I don't think that's the correct
term) that goes over the toolpost and under the tool. If anyone has
a spare to sell, I'd appreciate it. Sam B. (10396) |
| Sam- It is called a
toolpost ring. We have new ones if you are interested. Rose Marvin
(10398) |
| The six components
making up the lantern or light house style of tool post, per SB's
parts lists, are: Block Tool Post Wedge Ring Tool Post Screw Wrench
If anyone has a spare to sell, I'd appreciate it. I don't, but you
need to specify what model of lathe so you get the right size, If
you specify OD of tool post and length of the wedge those values
should come close to being the ID and OD of the ring you're looking
for. Anthony (10426) |
| Sam, The curved
round donut thingy actually has a scouped radius kinda like your
cereal bowl that matches the banana looking thingy. that way, when
they match the clamping force is straight down and the tool does not
rotate from either clamping forces or cutter forces. you might
consider a QC tool post if you want to really move up into simpler
tool changing. The main thing for you is to get the OD of the
lantern so you know the ID of your round donut thingy. Dave (10444) |
| Well spake, DM. I
still think the donut and banana thingy arrangement is quite
serviceable when you find need to quickly change tool angle or some
such variable and don't want to fuss with re-aligning something in a
fixed holder and grinding the tool over and over. the lantern also
lets you use the toolpost as a workholder in a pinch, using the slot
for clamping a small piece or a work holder. I have been know to try
using two at a time to clamp a piece for boring where I couldn't
turn the piece in the chuck. also good for holding things that do
not fit in the squarish shaped slots in other toolholders, its much
easier to trap the item in the slot with shims etc. than to try to
clamp it in the open-sided slot of a QC toolpost. the lantern post
is a handy thing to hang on-to even if it's not the cat's bananas
for toolposts. (10453) |
| You could actually
cheat around not having one to get you set up to make one. if you
have a thick washer (doesn't have to be hardened) then you can use
it in a pinch as a base washer for a ( square or rectangular - I
used a couple of tool blanks) spacer used in place of the curved
wedge ( or banana - your choice of nomenclature is your bid'ness).
this will let you hold a tool in the holder and then you can turn a
normal base washer with the radius you want cut into it. cutting the
radius to a perfect contour is not a critical item as it will
quickly get pressed by the wedge, you could easily polish the new
washer by hand ( leave it in the spindle chuck and polish the radius
relief with a handheld dremel or a piece of emery wrapped around a
round stick) As long as you get a fair degree of contact between the
wedge and washer the tool should not slip, the topscrew is supposed
to be fairly snug as this is what maintains the pressure on the
washer. neither the washer nor the wedge need to be really hard,
although some are forged, they always need to have some small degree
of flex to be able to conform to each other - the area of surface in
contact is what lets them hold the position firmly. they should NOT
have grease or lubricating oil on these mating surfaces. Dave
(10454) |
| QC or 4 way
tool holder |
| I am considering
building some tool holders for my SB9C and my AA 109 lathes. I can't
really afford to buy either so I thought I would try to build them
myself. I found a few plans for both designs but would like
suggestions for the best type to make from some of the more
experienced lathe owners and any suggestion for some good plans.
Since most of the bits I have are 1/4" HSS, what would you all
suggest? Bill C. (11416) |
| I've never used the
4 way but really like the QC (Aloris type). If you'll look at the
MSC online catalog I think you ll find the dimensions for the
Aloris; AXA series would be the right size for the SB. If you can
use the Aloris dimensions, you might be able to pick up some holders
used from time to time that would fit your toolpost. Probably need
to scale it down for the 109. Try to make the wedge type; knowing
you I'll bet you can engineer it! If you can t find the dimensions
contact me on the back channel; I think they re in the Aloris
catalog I have or I can measure mine for you. Lew (11417) |
| If you have the
time make the AXA style. I was running short on time so I built a
four way tool post then sold it here when I bought my QC tool post.
The four way is pretty easy to build. The Aloris style is more
complex and with the amount of time I had that's why I didn't try
it. Kerry (11422) |
| Bill I would
defiantly go with a QC type as prime preference. If you make a 4-way
post you need to provide either sliding wedge height adjusters like
Hardinge does on its tool posts or rockers like South Bend does on
theirs. If you do not provide a good method of adjustment you are
back to the shim thing that quickly becomes a PIA. JWE (11427) |
| Bill If you have a
good supply of 1/4 toolbits of reasonable length I think the easiest
toolpost to make is a variant on the Lammas type 3 way post. Sorry I
don't have a design reference but the thing is almost too simple to
need one. The basic shape is triangular with the corners cut off
where the tool projects so it holds three tools clamped into slots
as per usual for a 4 way. The cunning bit is that the the slots are
cut at a general purpose top rake angle so the tip height can be
adjusted by sliding the tool in and out (just like an Armstrong bit
holder). Obviously you grind your tools with no top rake and you
design the thing for a specific tool projection distance, 1/2" or so
is probably about right. Its not as versatile as a QC but a fully
populated brace or three of these will give you tools to cover most
of your turning requirements. If I were to make another one (now
having about 20 Armstrong holders that's unlikely) I think I would
change the triangle side angles from the Lammas equilateral design
and have the tool holder part projecting from the main body by 1/2"
or so to give more support to the bit and help tool access on
difficult jobs. For boring tools I'd go for the "clamp to a fat
round post" type. Here the body of the toolhoder clamps to the
biggest round post you can sensibly use and the tool is held in a
slot in the usual manner, the slot runs parallel to the bed this
time of course. Two jacking screws help set the height and keep
things stable. Obviously for a boring tool you can get the jacks
outboard of the tool which helps a lot. For the parting tool either
go the whole hog and do a rear toolpost (aside from the improved
performance its really nice to have a parting tool immediately
accessible all the time) or make a fixed height carrier for the bare
blade or a parting tool holder. The more massive the better. I grind
my parting tools flat top so a fixed height is fine. Start with a
big square lump and you can shove a clamp on knurling tool on 'tother
side. With a system like this you have a fixed post on the top-slide
with a suitable nut or hand lever on top and change complete
assemblies as needed. Use a flat steel base to protect the topslide
from the boring tool holder jackscrews. Don't be tempted to clamp
boring tool holders to the fixed post. It will be too slender. The
fat round post needs to be at least pushing 2" diameter. Unlike a QC
system its all easy work especially if you tool up and do a full
batch straight off. Clive (11429) |
| Phase II
Piston OR Wedge |
| I am about to send
an order int Enco while their sale is still going on. The piston
type 100 series is $89.95 and the wedge type is $159.95. I am not
making parts for NASA, do I need to spend the extra money on the
wedge type? Gary P. (12096) |
| Gary, I'm very
happy with my piston style. You are so going to love this new
toolholder. I was told that once you use one you can never go back.
Now it takes a rare situation for me to use the rocker style
anymore. Here's something else to put on the order, The thinnest
parting blade you can buy. Thin helps a LOT. Larry (12097) |
| Gary I have both
and I like both of them. If you have other tooling you would like to
spend some hard earned money on, then get the piston type, if you
have plenty to spend, go for the wedge type. Clint (12100) |
| I have the piton
type and it works just fine. Mine came with my lathe, but I think
that if 60 bucks wasn't too important and tiny things annoy you,
then go for the wedge. I think it really depends how anal you want
to be about it, because the piston works just fine. Frank (12102) |
| Gary, Last time I
ordered stuff from Enco they had a sale on T profile carbide cut-off
blades, about $8 or $9, I think. Someone on the list was extolling
the virtues of this type of blade. They are super easy to sharpen,
just a hone across the front and they cut like a dream. Add one to
your Phase II piston holder and you will be very pleased, I promise.
Glen (12110) |
| Glen That was I.
Consider that the T style blade by itself makes a hard or tedious
job much easier. I quit using the standard cut off blades in 1975
when I first discovered the T type and since have used no other
style. JWE (12119) |
| JW, it was
very good advice. I first used mine on a 1 1/4" by 1 foot 360 brass
round bar to make blanks for 20 tooth 18 DP 14 1/2 PA gears I made.
I just kept slicing, even up to 10 inches away from the chuck (with
a live center in the tail stock). It felt almost as good as sex
after 50. Glen (12123) |
| No, very few people
will be able to tell the difference any where but their pocketbook.
(12141) |
| Gary, You might
check out eBay, I saw a fella selling them at a buy it now price for
$129 or something to that effect. and they were the wedge type. I am
not affiliated with the seller I just saw the ad. Buy the way I had
a AXA set on my Logan 11" and I now have a BXA wedge set on my 13"
Southbend I have never used the piston set so I cannot compare, but
I really like the wedge type. Dee (12142) |
| Grizzly tool
holders |
| Will the Grizzly
tool holders will work with the Phase II tool post. I would think
they would, but I would like to know for sure before I order. Gary
P. (12728) |
| I have the phase II
piston toolpost. I use the grizzly toolholders. Using the same size
as reference, I think that the grizzly toolholders are marked 200
series. I think toolpost is marked as '100 series.' they fit fine.
dennis (12738) |
| Choosing a QC
or 4-way tool post |
| I need a tool post
for my "post-less" south bend 13" with a taper attachment. How do I
determine which one to buy based on the manufacturer's
specifications (tool post mfg. specs.)? Mike (13183) |
| I have to admit, I
need a toolpost for my 9A and other than knowing what the swing is,
I don't know what to get or what modifications would be required to
use it. I know others have mentioned the Phase III TPs but I would
have to guess which and how it actually gets connected. Mike (13187) |
| We are a Phase II+
distributor, and currently have the Series 100 Wedge Type set on
sale for $270 (Reg $295). What's more, if you provide the
dimensions, we'll even machine the T-Nut to fit your Compound Top.
Oh, what the heck same deal on the Piston Style (Reg $188, Special
$170). Phase II+ also has another style of QC Toolpost, for lathes
with 5" to 10" swing. This does NOT use the same size of toolholders
(interchangeable with Aloris), but the set is so inexpensive, who
cares? Post with 5 holders, $199. OK, $182. Scott Logan (13188) |
| Is there a
difference between yours and the one Enco has on sale at $89.95 for
the piston type/$159.95 for the Wedge type? (Last month's sales
flyer, good until the end of this month.) C.S. (13189) |
| I don't know what
Enco may have, but I'm pretty sure it would not include a finished
T-Nut at the very least. Scott Logan (13190) |
| Mike, You will need
a series 200 or a BXA equivalent for your 13". The series 100 is too
small. I have a piston type series 200 on my 13" and it works great.
Maybe Scott can quote a good price on one. Wayne (13191) |
| 10K Tool post
question |
| For the 10K, what
size tool post does everyone buy? I'm ordering a Phase II wedge type
(Aloris knock off)... the AXA is up to a 12" swing, and the BXA
series is nominally for 10-15" swing so the 10K should be able to
take either one; what do most 10K owners use? (14232) |
| I use the same
toolpost interchangeably on my 9" Model A and Heavy 10. I forget the
designation but it is the smallest Phase II (14233) |
| I got an AXA size
on my 12" Logan and I wish it was bigger. Sometimes I come across
used tooling that does not fit in the AXA 1/2" holders. and maybe I
am wrong but the more mass the more rigid. (14234) |
| I had an AXA on my
11x36 Logan and I have a BXA on my 13x40 South Bend I think you
would be much happier with the AXA on a 10" However that is just my
thoughts. Dee (14235) |
| Armstrong Tool
Holders |
| What size Armstrong
tool holders will fit a lantern type south bend tool post for a 9"
model A? The width of the tool post slot seems like it is shy of
1/2" about .420" The height of the slot is 1 1/8". Any suggestions?
(14330) |
| Armstrong #0 and
#00 are the most common ones. The 2010 or ace toolholders also can
be used. Each one needs different washers to get easy adjustment,
but they all fit the lantern. The #00 uses a 3/16 bit and is nice
for fine work. Rob (14331) |
| Absolutely. Don't
even think about using the standard lantern tool-post concave washer
and "boat" thingy with an Armstrong holder. A flat washer of the
right thickness is vastly more rigid. Also you don't have to use a
round one. Cunning use of an elliptical shape can usefully reduce
work overhang when operating close to the chuck on something tricky.
Flat washers are also the deed with parting tool holders. If you
want to use a really big parting tool or Armstrong holder make an L
shape block to bolt down on the top-slide with a couple or three
bolts pointing down through the overhanging arm and use that to
clamp the tool onto the cross-slide. This tool mounting technique is
probably the equal of a rear tool-post from the point of view of
easy parting off as it gives a really rigid tool. However the rear
post scores by being a permanent set up making it worth taking time
to set-up the tool dead right. Clive (14344) |
| Tool post
dovetail dimensions |
| Does anyone have
the dimensions of the dovetails on the AXA and BXA tool posts or
tool holder, depth and width? JP (14472) |
| I believe they are
in the MSC catalog
www.mscdirect.com or probably the Aloris factory website (don't
know the link for it) Lew (14473) |
| All the dimensions
except the dovetail. JP (14474) |
| Oh well; wish they
were there.? I've seen them posted somewhere; seems like it was in
an online catalog but I'm not sure! Lew (14475) |
| The Aloris catalog
does not give the dimensions of the dovetail. you might try their
web site: www.aloris.com or call
them, 973-772-1201. I've called and got great help and a free height
adjusting screw from a technical help guy. Neil B. (14480) |
| For AXA: The
dovetail angle is approximately 60 degrees. The width of the tool
POST is 1.603", so the tool holder dovetail would be slightly wider
at the widest point of the dovetail. The narrow portion of the
dovetail on the tool HOLDER is 1.364" wide. The depth of the tool
HOLDER dovetail is .388. Dave (14488) |
| These dovetail
measurements are best done by laying a two pieces of drill rod in
the dovetail and measuring between them. Do the same to the "outtie"
dovetail and knowing the diameter of the rod you can calculate a
width of the dovetail. The rod diameter should be about the same as
the depth of the dovetail. I hope this is clear, reading it myself I
forsee some confusion. Draw yourself a sketch with the rods tucked
into the cuts and you will understand the idea. Glen (14491) |
| I guess my
measurements are kind of confusing. If you want to write me
directly, I'll send you a drawing of what I'm trying to tell you.
Dave (14492) |
| Glen There is a
good article describing how to do it here. I thought there were two
of them there but for some reason I find only one, so it will be
necessary to find the other one and get it up. JWE (14495) |
| http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mlathemods/files/Alignment
JWE (14496) |
| What size tool
holder for a 16" SB? |
| I have a 16" SBL
that came with a lantern tool post which allows 3/4 inch tool
holders (actually, it looks to have a 13/16 opening for the shank).
The tool holder that came with the lathe is only 1/2 wide, and only
holds 5/16 sized bits. I have been wondering if this is too small a
tool holder and what I SHOULD be using in its place, I would think
3/4 ". Keep in mind the setup I am currently using is a tool holder
that seems to be 1/4 of an inch too small. This must also be why I
only get tiny curls from my work, since I can only use 5/16 bits.
Philip (17038) |
| The largest
toolholder and tool you can use for the job will give the most
rigidity. 3/4 wide tool holder in a 13/16 slot is about right. JP
(17040) |
| That's a #1
Armstrong toolholder. You need a set of #2 Armstrong toolholders.
They use the 3/8" bits and will take a pretty heavy cut. Save your
#1 holders for fine work. If you make a washer to accommodate each
toolholder size you can get the advantage of interchangeability
within that size and eliminate the wedge and dished washer. All your
toolholders must be the same make and model to get that feature. You
get the fine adjustment by moving the bit in and out. Doing it this
way also eliminates the need to grind top rake on the bit (the
holder supplies the top rake) you only need to grind the side rake.
RC
(17052) |
| RC, Thanks for the
information, it was a big help. I guess it was a stupid question,
you were the only one to respond. I will start looking for the
correct size tomorrow. Philip (17056) |
| I did not think it
was a dumb question. However It would take someone with knowledge of
a far bigger lathe then a 9" to answer it. Perhaps that's the reason
for the paucity of answers. Jim B. (17057) |
| Phillip, It wasn't
a stupid question, it's just that I (and likely other larger lathe
owners) was waiting to see if someone could answer your specific
question. Fortunately RC came through for you! I got rid of the
lantern, as did my neighbor (sb 13 and 15 respectively) and went to
block style toolholders. Great improvement, but making them well
requires some tooling beyond the lathe. Milling on the lathe is
possible, but not something I enjoy! Lots of folks use BXA or CXA on
larger lathes as well, should a piston or wedge quick change style
be more to your liking. In fact, I've gotten rid of the lanterns
from my SB9, Atlas 12, and SB13. You could fairly say that I despise
the spindly little chatter makers :-) In the meantime, you can flip
over the concave washer, add some packing on both sides of the slot,
and use the lantern as a strongback clamp to hold standard 1/2 or
5/8 tooling without having to invest much money at all. We did this
for a while, just to figure out what still needed sorting out on the
older lathes. Not as rigid as a QCTP or block style holder, but a
large improvement over Armstrong tools hanging out in space. Stan
(17058) |
| Stan On your
13" do you have the D1 4 mt? I am searching for the spindle sleeve
part # PT3605T1. Dee (17064) |
| Phillip Given that
you are adapting a small tool holder to a hefty lathe it is quite
practical to fabricate a block type tool holder. Essentially what
you want is a metal block to bolt down on the top slide with a slot
on each side to take a tool holder. Clamp the tool holder into the
block with three bolts or Allen heads screwing down through the top
of the slot. Obviously milling from solid steel makes a nicer job
but two suitably hefty steel plates for top and bottom fixed onto a
spacer with countersunk screws or Allen heads will get the job done.
Top needs to be about 3/8 to 1/2 thick to get a decent length of
thread for the clamp screws (remember to turn down the screw ends 'cos
they bur over on the holder and, after a while, will never come
out!). Bottom needs to be whatever thickness brings the tool to the
right level with 1/2 to 3/4 inch or so sticking out, best to make it
1/8 inch thin and use a packing piece for normal work then you can
drop the tool holder and pull out the tool when you need access to
deep groove or similar feature on the work. When I made some I used
light alloy for the middle block as it was easier to cut, my pal
Robin cheated and used 6 drilled and tapped rods, spaced "almost
touching" close, instead of the block. Worked fine but it was on a
smaller lathe, for your big boy 8 might be better. Fabricate the T
nut to go in the top slide slot by brazing or glue and screwing two
strips of steel the right width to fit in the slot and under it.
Choose a suitably hefty stud, tap the T nut and loctite in place. I
usually peen the last thread into a countersunk recess to make sure
it stays put. If you haven't got a big tap, turn the end of the
thread and braze it in taking elaborate precautions to ensure it is
straight. Clamping down with a nut is always a pain. Official kit
uses a nice handle but welding a rod pointing up 30 degrees ish onto
a big nut gets the job done. Simplest quick fix is to turn a thick
flat washer to bring the tool up to the right height (replaces both
the concave washer and the curved boat) then stick suitable packing
pieces each side of the tool holder so that it fills the slot. Clean
up well and loctite or a cyranoacrylate "superglue" will do a decent
job of holding the bits on but can be removed by heating and tapping
sharply. Clive (17067) |
| Dee, Sorry to say
no, this is a 1931 model. 1 7/8 - 8 spindle, one inch through hole,
weird SB taper. All the things that make life interesting. Stan
(17068) |
| Harbor Freight
QCTP |
| I saw a article on
a Harbor Freight quick change tool post from a while back. I emailed
the author of the article but it came back. They have three with one
being a clearance item. Can someone who has one tell me if this is
appropriate for my SB 10L
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=39083
this is on sale. This one is listed for 6-12" lathes:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=34809
This one is listed for 10-15" lathes so it's too big.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=34816
I'm inclined to get the first one as I've been looking but it does
not give a size range, only dimensions and the others give size
ranges but no dimensions. Joe (18183) |
| The one on my SB-9
( Does measure 2.5 by 2.5 by more than 3". Its a Phase III wedge
type. There was sum stuff in the archives about the HF toolpost not
being the optimum choice. As I remember, when the Phase III cylinder
type TP is on sale its about $89. It does not have the drill chuck
however. Before committing search the archives, for other peoples
experiences. Jim B.(18184) |
| Joe, the 39803
dimensions match match a typical -100 size in other brands. the
extra chuck is nice. The 34809 has no dimensions listed. It may be
the same set less chuck and parting blade. RichD (18185) |
| Joe, I would go for
the one for the 6 to 12". It will do all you will want to do. I have
the 16 to 20" HF tool post on my 21" SB have been using it for 4 or
5 yrs and am total satisfied with it's performance. If you go to
SBpics there is a couple of pics of it, Duanes stuff. DM (18189) |
| The first 2 are
both the same (AXA) size. The first is made in India, the second in
China. The Chinese one appears to be identical with the other
Chinese ones (Phase II for example). I have heard the the Chinese
ones are better than the Indian ones but I have never seen an Indian
one personally. Either would fit a heavy 10. (18193) |
| I have ordered the
number 39083. If it is indeed made in India I have gotten a small
number of things produced there and they have been of better quality
then a lot of the Chinese stuff from the harbor freight store. They
don't stock any of them locally so I have to get one "sight unseen".
I'll let you all know when It arrives how I like it. Joe (18219) |
| Last year I bought
a house-brand tool post with an assortment of holders from Wholesale
Tool Co. I don't do high volume or high precision work, but I think
it is the greatest attachment I have ever put on my lathe, which I
have had for over 30 years. It was fairly inexpensive, compared to
industrial grade brands. Steve (18230) |
| Joe, I e-mailed
Harbor Freight's tech support regarding the country of origin of
item # 39083. Their reply was: This item is made in China. Ray
(18248) |
| Aloris tool
posts for 16" |
| I am looking for an
Aloris tool post, but I am not sure which one I need. I see many
different types, AXA, BXA, CA-7, CA, CXA. for example. My SBL has 16
inches of swing if that matters. I know I want the wedge type. Can
you guys point me in the right direction? Philip (18213) |
| The SB 16" lathe we
bought recently came with an Aloris type toolpost size BXA and a few
Aloris BXA toolholders. (18214) |
| Forgot to mention
in my previous post that the Aloris website has the CXA-CX series
for swings up to 13-18". The BXA-BX series is for swings up to
10-15". It seems that our BXA is smaller than it should be for our
16" lathe. (18217) |
| Aloris AXA
tooling on 13" |
| Has anyone ever
used AXA size tool post and holders on a Southbend 13" lathe? If you
have, how did it work out, what are the drawbacks, if any? Dann
(18379) |
| I have 13" SBL
fitted with AXA tooling, and it is a perfect fit in my opinion. I
feel sure once you use this system, you will not want to use the old
tool post and rocker set up again. It is great to grab up a holder
with pre-adjusted tool and go to work, with no further monkey
shines, grinding and adjusting tools. Go for it! LEE (18384) |
| QCTP for 10K
help |
| I am interested in
investing in a QCTP for my 10k but am a bit confused as to what to
get. There are the Aloris and Dorians but also the Harbor Freights
for a fraction of the cost. I want good repeatable quality but not
junk, what do you think? Rob
(18848) |
| The Aloris and
Dorians are for those who were lucky enough to inherit great wealth
while the Phase II and HF ones are priced for those that work for a
living. JWE (18850) |
| There is a doc in
the files section that might answer your questions. Also info in the
FAQ. link at the bottom. Dennis (18851) |
| Yes, the doc in the
files section is from 2001 - a review of the harbor freight. I tried
contacting the gentleman who wrote the review to see if he was still
happy with it and his email account is invalid. I did also see the
information in the FAQ but was interested in what people's
preferences are in this forum - the listing in the FAQ are generic
without a discussion. I was hoping for more insight. Rob (18855) |
| I will risk the
wrath of the group moderators, and the membership. If ANYONE feels I
am out of line, please let me know, and I will stop. As James Early
mentioned, the Aloris brand is for those with more money than time,
or those lucky enough to find a good one on the used market. I am
not familiar with the HF brand. We are a distributor for Phase II,
and I use their QC Toolposts myself. In fact, I spent all day
yesterday using one in our shop. Yes, they are made in China, and
no, I am not happy about that. On the other hand, if anyone can make
these for me at the same cost here in the US (or somewhere in North
America), I'd be happy to buy them. For the South Bend 9", 10-K, and
10", I recommend the "Series 100" aka "AXA Series". This will handle
up to 1/2" turning tools, and up to 1" boring bars. I also recommend
the same series for Logan Lathes, up to the 12". Larger lathes,
including the Logan 14", should use the larger sets. For smaller
lathes, the Piston Style is perfectly adequate, and much less
expensive. The wedge style is a bit more rigid and accurate, but
either is such a huge improvement over the original "lantern style"
toolpost, that most would never know the difference. OK, here's
where I get slightly commercial. As I said, we are distributors for
Phase II. Where we differ from most is that we will machine the
T-Nut to fit your lathe at no extra cost. You need to ASK for this
service, AND you must provide the dimensions of the T-Slot in your
compound rest. If you refer to the diagram at:
http://lathe.com/images/sb_7324.gif We need dimensions G, J, K,
and W. Finally, in order to salve some feelings that I am spamming,
I will offer members of this group free shipping (within the US)
until 14 May 2004 on ANY Phase II items we carry. Mention this offer
when ordering, or if ordering via our web store, mention this offer
in the comment section, and we will make the appropriate adjustments
before your card is processed. For any more information, literature,
or prices, please contact me OFF LIST, by phone, fax or email. Scott
S. Logan (18859) |
| Rob, I have been
running a HF tool post for 4 yrs and am very satisfied with it. I
run my lathe everyday. Duane (18863) |
| I use the second
smallest size on my 12 inch Atlas. I think on any of them you will
need to work over the T nut to fit your compound. They seem to make
the T nuts oversized as it is usually easier to cut some off than add
on. (18864) |
| I have both Phase
II and the Harbor Freight tool posts. The Phase II is a much better
tool. Fit and finish are much better. The handle on the HF one I
bought was not threaded. It had 60 degree grooves around the end
with zero pitch. It must have been a tough job to cut grooves spaced
at the correct distance apart without engaging half nuts. I ended up
making my own handle. HF stuff is very cheap but be prepared to fix
it to make it work. Glen PS I didn't buy my Phase II from
Scott. If I'd known about the T-nut machining offer when I bought
it, he would have had my business. (18879) |
| My solution to the
tool holder debate was to spend the bucks and buy an Aloris tool
post (I think I paid about $200 a few years ago, delivered) and to
purchase the tool holders from others, Aloris, Phase II, Grizzly,
used, or whatever. I use my better tool holders for the tools I use
all the time and the less desirable tool holders for odd tools that
I don't use that often. You can never have too many tool holders,
Whenever I see tool holders at a good price at a sale, auction, my
local used machinery dealer or catalog sales I usually buy. My
Aloris AXA wedge type on my 9" SB is the greatest and will surely
last my lifetime, tool holders though are expendable. Neil B.
(18881) |
| I have a 10K and I
bought a Phase 11 piston model 250-XXX. I like it compared to the
rocker that I had. Darrell (18886) |
| Quick Change
tool post plans? |
| I have an old
16"SBL, and I was wondering if anyone had any plans for a quick
change tool post? I have an old Cincinnati Toolmaster Mill, and I am
looking for a good project for practice. I don't have enough money
(this time of year) to buy one for about $400.Or maybe some sort of
toolpost I don't have much of a toolpost right now. (22825) |
|
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mlathemods04/files/Toolposts/
JWE (22827) |
| Phase 2 QCTP
|
| I am trying to
determine the design dimension of the dovetail on the AXA tool
holder. I measure mine with a pair of .250" pins set in the
dovetails and come up with an inside dimension of 1.0080" for all of
the tool holders in this set. Someone else measured their set and
came up .003" smaller. Now I don't know if it is the person, the
caliper, design tolerance or a combination which gives the
difference, which is very small. If anyone has a Phase 2 QCTP and
can take a measurement with .250 pins and let me know the size and
if it is a piston or wedge type I would appreciate it. I would like
to be able to determine the design dimension of this beast. I am in
the process of drawing up a tangential tool holder to fit the AXA
tool post. One that should give a smooth cut and be very simple to
sharpen. JP (23597) |
| JP: The piston and
wedge holders rely on different surfaces for registration. On the
"original" wedge design, the tool registered with the surface
against the post and the front taper (one contacting the non-moving
dovetail on the post. The bottom of the dovetail is just clearance.
The back dovetail needs to allow the wedge action to work although
precision will help the wedge handle to always stop at the same
place. The piston versions register only on the two dovetails. The
surface against the post is not critical. The bottom surface and its
relation to the dovetail sets where the piston handle stops- too
wide or too deep and the handle has to be turned further. I don't
think .003 is a big deal since, in the original wedge design, two of
the three surfaces you are gaging- the back and bottom of the
dovetail- were not considered critical with the original design.
What do you mean by a tangential tool? Are you trying to make an
easily sharpened profile tool like the old Landis threading heads or
the old "rotate after sharpening" single point bits? You could
probably accomplish what you want by making a holder that clamps in
a standard AXA but holds your profiled bit upright in front of the
holder- you would see your profile if you looked straight down. Bill
(23599) |
| JP, I don't know
exactly what it is you are looking for but I bought my tangential
tool holder from Baycom:
http://www.bay-com.com and use it in an AXA
without problem on a 10L. Other sizes are available. I have no
interest in this company. Jim (23600) |
| Bill, I am trying
to determine the size and tolerance range for the AXA tool holders.
I am not sure if mine are at one end of the range or near the
center. Contacting the outfit in NJ is about useless, been there,
done that. JP (23605) |
| Jim, I was going to
use a round M42 tool instead of a square one and make the holder
with a dovetail to drop right on the AXA tool post. Aloris has a lot
of interesting tool holders but very pricey. So I figured if I find
the design dimension for the tool holder dovetail then I can make my
own. The Phase 2 QCTP is supposed to be the same size and it is what
most HSM have. JP
(23606) |
| The size of a
'standard' Phase 2 tool holder or the tolerance from one to the
other really has no bearing on the repeatability of inserting your
toolholder into your post. The system is designed so that the
cutting surface can be removed and reinserted without having to set
it up again, it is not designed so that a similar tool on Fred's
lathe down the hall can be used on yours without having to do a new
set up. What I am trying to say, is make it any size you want, as it
does not have to work on your tool post, on your lathe. The only
semi critical dimension is the width of the dovetail, but even this
is designed to have a fair amount of slop in the system. Once the
tool holder is in place, either the wedge or piston will take this
slop up so that it is back where it was the last time you used it.
Hope this helps, Nick (23608) |
| I got 1.008 as well
using two separate calipers. I do not have gage pins- used pins that
measured .249-.250 so probable a half under. This is a Phase Two
cutoff blade holder. The back, dovetails, and depressed flat all
look ground. I have a "no name" wedge style post that was purchased
separately from the holder. Bill (23609) |
| The AXA is a
standard and anybody that makes one marked AXA should fit any
others. The button style requires a much tighter tolerance on the
holders as for me, they are uselessly sloppy. I was getting a 30 tho
range on the button style. Harbor Freight model, not Aloris or
PhaseII so this is probably not the norm. The wedge type repeats
fantastically and can hold a wider range of sized holders. Even my
sloppy HF ones fit tight and repeat dead on in the Aloris tool post.
If you are making holders for button style, I would recommend you
make them snug on your post and not try to make a universal holder.
Dave
(23617) |
| FYI, There is no
difference between holders for wedge and piston designs. Ed (23618) |
| Tool holder
questions |
| I have a 16 inch
SBL, 6 foot bed, Catalog No 117C. It has a rocker type tool post,
and in a box I have a multi tool holder which I have never tried to
use. The rocker set-up is what I have been using, but it seems too
short. I have to shim my tools up about 1/2 to 3/4 inch to get close
to CL of spindle. I've been looking at quick change type holders,
thinking they might be easier. What is the difference between a
piston type and a wedge type. Does anyone have experience with the 4
or 5 piece sets available from a number of suppliers on eBay? I am a
hsm, doing mostly repair work on antique motorbikes. Any
constructive comments or suggestions appreciated. Also, I emailed
Plaza machine with no response to date, any other suggestions where
I can get replacement cross and compound slide nuts? Mark (24798) |
| Go to the links for
the nuts. The wedge tool is more stable than the piston type but
also a little more expensive. For a hobbyist the piston should work
fine. A lot of people use the Phase 2 brand, its about 1/3 the cost
of the Aloris which is top of the line. For a 16" lathe the CXA is
recommended, a BXA may work for you and is a lower cost. Go to
www.use-enco.com and search
for quick change tool post set for the current price, they are
usually 'on sale'. JP (24809) |
| Mark, Can't you put
a plate between the compound and the toolpost. Don't know about the
imports on eBay, but one of the best investments I made was a swiss
style 40 position holder about 5 lathes back, repeatable to a thou
when ever you put the same holder back in. When ever I change lathes
I just make up a new spacer for whatever the centre height is. Make
sure you can get additional holders, I have seven but ideally would
like about 10. Bernard R (24814) |
| I use a wedge type
tool holder, I have a heavy 10 and a SB 14 lathe. I am able to share
the bit/tool holders from one lathe to another. setting the CL is
very easy and very accurate. (24817) |
| As always there is
the money/time buy/make conundrum to solve. In your position I'd
start by replacing the lantern tool-post rocker stuff with a fixed
spacer (or several, if you have more than one size of tool) to get
the tools on centre height. If you use Armstrong type tool-holders
you may find that lantern type with a fixed spacer(s) is near enough
to a QC for your use. If you have milling facilities making the
spacer(s) with an upward sloping tool locating slot gives you fine
tool height adjustment. Make a little clamp up collar to locate how
far down the slope you insert the tool for very repeatable height
location. My personal view is that QC types are great if you can
fund a holder for every tool you are going to use. If funds are
limited block type dual tool holders are cheap to make and,
especially with a bigger lathe, easy to fabricate. A weekends work
will do a lifetime supply. Make complete units with locking handle
and T-nut so changing is just a matter of half turn of the handle
and slide out. Use two suitable sizes of strip to fabricate the
T-Nut, cut top and bottom from suitable thickness plates (or if you
have a cheapy chinee falling bandsaw chop them out of a length of
square bar), use anything suitable for the bit in the middle. Tap
the middle bit as appropriate and fix together with socket screws,
counter-sunk are best for this job. Buy in the handles (cheapy-chinee
again). Clive (24837) |
| If you decide to
roll your own, low carbon steel like 1018 case hardened with Kasenit
will work. The Aloris tool holders are 1117 steel case hardened
.02". (24839) |
| I have "rolled my
own" with the block method and use the wedge type also. I have not
used the piston type but am wondering how well they work. the prices
on the imports is not to bad. If you have a mill you will most
likely make some just for a job or 2. (24840) |
| QCTP Dovetail
Dimensions |
| Does anyone have a
BXA or series 200 QCTP tool holder handy? I would like to know the
dovetail dimensions, depth and width with a pair of round stock
pieces dropped in the sides. I have the AXA dimensions but would
kike to know the approximate dimensions of next size up. JP (25291) |
| JP, I've got a BXA
#2 holder in my hands and it measures .418" deep and 1.083" between
1/4" pins sitting in the corners of the dovetail. Gordon (25303) |
| Gordon, It looks
like they are .075" wider than the AXA. JP (25304) |
| I thought all of
the dovetails were interchangeable between series so you could mount
a BXA holder on an AXA tool post; the primary difference being the
vertical relationship between the top of the compound rest and the
cutting edge of the tool. BXA and CXA would be for bigger lathes
with a larger distance from compound rest to spindle center line.
That was my understanding but I could be totally off base. Ron
(25306) |
| They do have
adaptors to change size but each series have their own tool holders.
The AXA tool post is 2.5" wide and 4 high and the DA is around 5"
wide and 8 high. The small one uses 3/16" to 1/2" tools and the
large one uses 1/2" to 1" tools. Each series is progressively
larger. JP (25307) |
| JP I knew the tool
holders could accommodate bigger tools for the bigger series tool
posts. It was the dovetail portion that I was referring to. On KDK
QCTPs the dovetail dimension is the same for the 0, 100, 150 and 200
series so you can interchange tool holders. So the dovetail size
gets progressively bigger on the bigger Aloris style tool posts and
you cannot, for instance, mount an AXA series tool holder on a BXA
tool post? Ron (25318) |
| That's correct, all
dimensions increase with each series on the Aloris and Phase 2 QCTPs.
I called Aloris but they use go/no-go gauges and CNC equipment so no
one seems to know what the dimensions over pins are. Their units are
machined from 1117 and case hardened and then ground to fit to the
gauge. The ideal fit is with the handle locked when its at the 5
o'clock position. JP (25319) |
