| Turret for heavy 10"
(Jun 30, 2002) |
Turret tool posts (Apr
18, 2003) |
| Turret lathe (Jul
28, 2002) |
Turret Tail Stock and Carriage
(Oct 3, 2004) |
| TURRET lathe (Dec 9,
2002) |
16" turret lathe (Feb 13,
2005) |
| Tailstock turret ? (Apr
16, 2003) |
6 Position turret stop for 10"
Heavy SB missing 5 screws (Feb 26, 2005) |
| |
| Turret for heavy 10" |
| Is there such a
thing as a turret for the 10" toolroom lathes? I have seen the
turret style toolposts, I'm just curious if SB made a turret lathe
on the same bed as the heavy 10" Joe V. (4848) |
| Joe, The answer is no and yes.
The Heavy Ten wasn't a "turret lathe" per se, but accessories could
be bought that would effectively turn it into one. SBL made bed
turrets that come up on eBay from time to time (six position, auto
indexing) and lever operated cross slides. You just have to keep
your eye open. You could call some of the used machinery dealers and
check. Webb
(4849) |
| Almost not worth
the bandwidth because it makes little difference at this point, but
the 1960 SB catalog lists two 10L 3.5' bed turret lathe models, each
of which can take 5C collets. One is bench mount (CL1005Z), the
other a cabinet model (CL1006Z). Like Webb, I see the tailstock
turrets come up occasionally. They usually go in the $200-300 range.
Mike
(4859) |
| Turret lathe |
| Can some one tell
me what is a turret lath used for and what is the difference to a
regular lathe? Clint
(5444) |
| A quick answer is
for production work, making a lot of the same item. Your various
cutting tools are set up in the turret and probably in the t-slotted
cross slide. Once set up the operator has a minimum to no measuring
or adjusting, just move the handles/wheels. The finiky work is
setting up the tooling. Tooling is also pretty expensive.
Clinton (5447) |
| Clint- Bob S. gave
a pretty good description. A "real" turret lathe has power on the
turret carriage, and probably on the cross-slide. So it can do all the
operations of an engine lathe as long as a tailstock is not needed.
I.e., your shorter work. Many can even single point thread, though
this is not as common on the smaller sizes. Smaller sized turret
lathes use to be referred to as "hand screw machines". These would
be your Hardinge sized machine with hand powered bed turrets and
crosslide cutting tables. Or the slightly larger "Hand Chukers"
with powered bed turret and sometimes cross-slide. They might have a
chase threading attachment too, but commonly most threading would be
done with dies or taps in one of the turret positions. SB made some
beautiful little Heavy 10 sized and 13" turret lathes, I just missed
buying one a few years ago with 2 axis powered travels and
threading. Add-on hand powered bed turrets were made for many small
lathes like the SB's, Logan, etc. Any time you have to make more
than maybe 3 or 4 pieces, it might be worth running them with the
turret, if you have one. Even, or maybe especially, simple stuff. i
had to make 6 bushings for a wall bracket once to hold my 4c
collets. i thought about all the operations involved in making 6
simple equal sized bushings: position to length, face off, center
drill, drill, part off; and it is really fast to do with a few tools
in the turret, and the cut-off in the back position on the cutting
table (cross slide). Think how many operations there are to making a
bunch of knurled head thumb screws (including stuff like chamfers
and undercuts, if any) from barstock, and you can do them all on the
turret and cross-slide, one after another. Another really dumb
project, my son and I made him a partial suit of roman armor out of
aluminum sheet stock when he was about 10. There were hundreds of
rivets involved. We set up the HSM, and he ran the turret, while I
acted as bar feed and moved the cutting table to part them off. The
turret only had a dead stop, a facing tool, and a box tool to run
the shank diameter on the rivet and form the counter sunk head in
one pass. Then the cut-off on the cross-slide. If we had been making
round head rivets, I would have had a form tool on the front
position of my cross slide. Simple, sort of silly project, but we
could crank out rivets like nobody's business! Smt (5449) |
| Clint, As far as I
know a Turret lathe has a Turret of sort (tool changer) for the
tailstock. You would put in various types of tooling needed in a
sequence and set the depths of cut for each tool. Retraction of the
quill would advance the turret to the next tool. These were used in
the days before CNC were available or affordable. They still have a
place for some jobs, but CNC machines are much more flexible so the
turret lathes are more a thing of the past. I'm sure a few of the
board members might give me an ear full over that. If you were doing
a small lot of parts which needed drilled reamed etc. or various
diameters, it might be worth looking at. Tom
(5450) |
| For sure our
Hardinge DSMs are in constant use for light secondary operations,
fixing screw-ups from the screw machine departments and some light
production work. Turret lathes of this type are still in use and
heavily in shops everywhere. I even used my South Bend A this way
for prototype production at one time. A bed preferably or tailstock
turret makes things very nice when you need to make more than two of
the same item at one time. JWE
(5453) |
| Most of the
industrial turret lathes were built with features that made high
production of products. As mentioned before the CNC machines have
brought old turret lathes out of favor and sell cheap. Good news for
small shops , but if you get a South Bend 10"( it is probably a
heavy 10) or a 13" turret lathe like they show in their 1963 catalog
you will have basically a standard South Bend that has production
cross slide and turret in place of a standard slide and tailstock.
Standard stuff fits right on. With this in mind an auction some time
ago had a 7 foot bed SB 13" turret lathe with a lever operated 5C
collet system. The hardened ways looked like no wear, probably
because the carriage is not moved much as forming and threading is
mostly done with form tools, taps and dies. The bids were low and
few so I got it for an unbelievable price. Since SB parts are
readable available, I bought and installed a standard cross side
assy as well as a standard tailstock. If it wasn't for moving the
heavy powered turret I could have gotten by without the standard
tailstock. Anybody got an old obsolete 10 SB turret lathe that's
gathering dust to go with my 9 A and 13 A? Walt (5454) |
| Thanks, so if I had
got one at a very cheap price (and learned to use it) then I could
do more work results with it than just a regular lathe? Clint (5455) |
| OK, now I
understand, so if I could find the correct parts, I could use my C
as a turret set up? Clint (5456) |
| Slow down,
Clinton. Yes, it is possible, and might or might not be useful to
you. A key point in turret lathe work is to be able to load a bar
and keep working off the end of it. Your first turret position might
often be a dead or live stop, so as you part off the last piece, you
can slide the bar out to length position for the next against the
stop. On hand operated machines, it is safest (and of course most
accurate) to work out of a collet. So if all the pieces you would
envision making can be made on a 1/2" or smaller bar, the turret
might be a good addition for you. Remember, you are limited to 1/2"
collets on a SB9". You can probably envision that a lever closer
provides a quantum leap in repeatability, holding power, and
convenience. I personally feel 5c collets (1" max bar capacity
through the collet) are preferable to smaller sizes. You will want
to understand turret tooling, and sources for it, before committing
to a bare lathe or turret addition. Box tools, knee tools, balance
turning tools, adjustable boring tools, recess tools, collets,
chucks, and adjustable holders for drills and end tools, etc, etc,
all have a place to optimize convenience and utility. Some are easy
to source, some not. New, such 5/8" shank tooling costs hundreds per
piece, except for the simple knee tools and holders. Watch eBay a
while to get a sense of the items, availability, and cost. Then
considering cost, convenience, capacity, and ruggedness, if you want
a hand operated "turret" lathe, the small Hardinge, which were
designed and built in the thousands to run in that function for
years on end might have some appeal if you have the space. I like
the old split beds because they only go for a few hundred dollars
apiece. The DV/DSM series with dovetail beds tend to bring a large
premium, though they do not have any better capacity and only
slightly better rigidity. You can buy entire split beds with
moderate tooling for less than someone is advertising a SB bare
turret for on this list. smt (5459) |
| SMT thanks for that
info, heck, I have decided to wait on any thing to do with a Turret
lathe for the time being. I have not learned how to run the South
Bend yet!!! I bid on a Warner Swassey # 3 and the guy had a reserve,
of course I did not meet the reserve, but he offered a pretty good
deal on it (I think?) I had bid 255.00 on it. It has the chuck
and all with it and he claims it is in excellent condition. Any way,
since I am going to wait and fix up the SB, If some one is
interested in it I will hook you up with them on it. At this time I
would have to tell him since I was the highest bidder on it. Take a
look Ebay # 1752440426 If no one is interested, at least give me an
opinion on whether an inexperienced guy like should consider it at
the price offered. In other words, is it a deal to not turn down?
Clint (5460) |
| Clint I hope you
understand that W S is about the same size as a Volkswagen. JWE (5463) |
| JWE/Clint ...same
size as a VW, but weighs a LOT more! Mario (5467) |
| Clint, It is only a
deal if you have a use for it. The others would have a better ideal
as to how many parts you'd need to run per order to make the setup
on a turret lathe practical. If you are only doing a few parts, then
you 'C' lathe should do OK. I would say that the turret would only
be worth while if you where doing some small lot production. Plus
similar parts, still small lots. Tom (5471) |
| TURRET lathe
|
| What exactly is a
turret lathe. What makes it different that a regular lathe. Often
when I don't know what something is I look it up on eBay to see a
picture. like this one of a turret lathe.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=1925051981 I cant quite figure why the drive end is so massive.
(7868) |
| Jim, Turret Lathes
are production machines, meant to be set-up and operated for runs of
many identical pieces. They are not automatics, they need a skilled
(normally) operator to make parts and a very skilled machinist to
set them up properly (first-piece man). They generally take much
longer to set up for a typical job than an engine lathe. They make
up for it by not having to change tools in the tailstock during the
run. The "turret" itself is the hexagonal thing in place of the
tailstock. By operating the four-spoke wheel, you can advance the
turret tools to preset depth stops and retract and index to the next
tool and so forth. A great application is cutting off parts from bar
or tubing stock. A stop is placed in one turret station and is set
to the correct extension from the chuck or collet. The cross slide
also normally has a rear mounted cut-off blade. So the operator
would advance the material to a preset stop, chuck the bar, perform
whatever machining operations necessary, and then part- off. They
were also often equipped with indexable toolposts. The drive end is
so massive due to the gear drive transmission. The Jones and Lamson
#3 I used to run for many years had twenty different spindle speeds
from ~30 to 2000 rpm, all gear driven and controlled by a single
shift lever. Different operations required different speeds and it
is best to shift as quickly as possible. The carriage of course had
power feed which could be set to shut off by a bed stop, same for
the turret and cross slide. The cross slide also had a rapid
traverse
lever which would bring the cross slide its full travel in about
three seconds. Note the preponderance of handwheels versus levers.
The feed rate of the turret tailstock was independent from that of
the carriage. Yes it was cumbersome and there was a learning curve
but on production runs, I could out produce the adjacent engine lathe
by 100:1 on some jobs. Peter
(7871) |
| Jim, I'm not sure
but since this is the South Bend group, you might be thinking of the
South Bend Turret Lathes. My SB cat 6301 ( probably 1967) shows
Turret Lathes in sizes 10 (Heavy Ten), 13, and 2-H. These lathes are
standard SB lathes except there is a turret in place of the
tailstock and a production cross slide in place of the regular one.
The headstock, gearbox, and apron stuff are all standard. I happen
to have a 13" with a 7' bed and hardened ways in super shape. Got it
at an auction with only one bidder who quit soon. Its a perfect way
to have your cake and eat it too. On e-bay I got a tailstock and
standard cross slide that fit nicely so I can have it both ways. A
lot easier to sell if I ever wanted to. A dedicated Turret Lathe
might be less expensive but not well suited to regular lathe work.
Walt (7877) |
| I posted yesterday a
question about my 10 inch SBL with a turret attachment. It seems what
I have is a turret lathe! I did not know they made a dedicated
turret lathe! I have been using it as a regular machine! I did not
know until today when I asked a friend of mine to talk to his uncle
for me. His uncle was a machinist for 30 years and has quite a home
shop, but he is kind of moody! To my amazement his uncle invited me to
his home and showed me original SBL catalogs from the late40's and
early 50's and there was my machine!! A turret lathe! He then showed
me around his shop and man what a shop! He gave me the old catalogs
to keep, and several original SBL booklets. Turned out he is a nice
guy! WELL, this shows how much I have to learn!!
(7887) |
| I have a 13" SB
Turret lathe. SB made them in Heavy Ten,13", and 2H.They are
standard lathes in every way except for a turret and production
crosslide. You can get a regular tailstock and cross-slide that fit
nicely , then you have a standard lathe. Been there, done that.
Walt (7890) |
| Peter; Thank you
very much for your discourse. I had known what turret lathes were
for a long time, but you explained it with new insights in just a
few words to a non professional. I have heard it said that "we won
the war (WWII) with turret lathes", meaning of course that the
turret lathe facilitated the production capabilities that eventually
overwhelmed the Germans and the Japanese. Perk (7894) |
| Tailstock
turret ? |
| While sorting thru
some tooling in an old drawer this evening, I came across what I
believe to be a tailstock turret/tool holder for my 9" SB. It
consists of a 2 pc casting approx 4" dia, with 5 1/2 " dia holes on
one face with locking set screws on the side for each hole. on the
rear side it has a male #2 MT at one point, with what appears to be
an indexing hole 180 degrees out from it , and a threaded locking
lever in the middle. No indexing pin has been found yet, but I doubt
it is not much more than a 1/2 dia pin with that goes in the back
and has a 5/16 nose to hit the matching hole in the front plate.
There are no markings on this that I have found, but from the looks
of it, it does not appear to be a shop made fixture. Does this ring
any bells with anybody ? Could this be a factory accessory ? I've
never seen anything on it, but I'm sure no expert. If need be, I can
post a pic of this thing. What have I got here ? Okey (10235) |
| Yes, that sounds
right. I have the Enco variant. Really handy when you need it. I
would suggest that you post a picture in the files section. dennis
(10236) |
| Okey, I have a very
early ENCO version (a very nice copy). This is a tailstock turret
accessory (as opposed to a turret tailstock unit). The indexing lock
is with a lever/plunger on the back. All sockets are 5/8" dia
parallel. RichD (10237) |
| I've never seen or
used one - what are they for? Frank (10243) |
| In place of a bed
turret in production work. Say you had a part you were making that
required two different drills, a center drill, a live center for
support and a tap or die for threading. Well you can wear out your
hand and chuck key changing them in the tail stock chuck, have a lot
of chucks setup and swap them or one of these. JWE (10249) |
| Yes, that's a
tailstock turret. You use holders to hold tooling in in the turret.
As you have different operational steps you index the tooling.
Basically it saves time changing tooling in the tailstock. Once you
have set up the tooling in the holders its as simple as rotating and
locking the holder. Say for example you have to do a short run of
boring, reaming and counterboring- position 1: center drill position
2: pilot drill a position 3: pilot drill b position 4: reamer
position 5: counterbore you would chuck up the part. Starting with
position 1, spot the center. then index over to pos 2 and drill.
Index to pos 3 and drill again. Index to reamer and etc... as you
can see, the setup is a bit time consuming and would pay off with
multiple parts. you are also speed limited by using the handwheel to
advance the tooling. dennis (10250) |
| Turret tool
posts |
| What do you guys think a turret tool post (4-way) is worth? I have a
Bridgeport mill and thinking of making a couple and throwing them up
on ebay. It would be for the SB 9" model. I don't know if it would
be worth my time to make some and then try to sell them. I've made
two for myself and they work great. I've also made a boring bore
tool post and a single tool post. Do you guys think they would sell
and if so how much? Mike
(10266) |
| Mike That is one of
those why bother items unless you make one like SB fitted to the
production cross slide with built in height adjustment. I have
probably 10 or 15 of the normal type I have taken off lathes to fit
QC posts and the one real well designed one for my production slide.
The regular ones can not even be given away as no one that has ever
used an adjustable height tool post will ever suffer with shim packs
again. JWE (10267) |
| Well, its made 1/64
below centerline of spindle and it holds 3/8 tool bits. Do you have
a link to the SB turret post, I couldn't find one. Mike
(10277) |
| Turret Tail
Stock and Carriage |
| I have a "turret
tail stock on a carriage with a long pull handle." I am not sure
that the description is correct technically, but I have pics and
would appreciate knowing what it's really called and approximately
what it might be worth. Charles (21184) |
| Charles, It is
called a Handlever Turret. What size lathe does it fit? Bob
(21185) |
| The ones I have
seen for a 9" SB have been about $300-$350 (21192) |
| Congratulations on
taking the plunge! Turret work is right up my ally. I did extensive
turret lathe work setting up Foster and Morey turrets. We made
masonry drill attachments that held the drill. Hilti, Bosh, Green
field, B D, were just a few customers we kept fed. For your
applications, you'll need a set of turret tools that can be made
using the lathe. A cut-off tool mounted on a rear pillar opposite
the cross feed tool, is a good idea. For your turret, you'll need to
know if the bores are straight or tapered. For your first job, stay
away from box tools until you've had enough experience setting them.
I would do this: position tool description 1. spot or center drill
spots center hole for #7 drill 2. #7 .201 tap drill drills tap hole
for stud 3. plug tap 1/4-20 taps 60% thread depth 4. bottom tap
optional, jam fit of stud possible With smaller lathes that designed
for light machining, your turret work is subject to vibration. For
this reason, I recommend using a front form tool. This will turn
down the boss thus forming the radius profile for the piece. Making
one of these is pretty easy by hand. Much depends on what size your
tool holder can handle. It is a turret as well, much work can be
done with this machine. If not we can build one. Tapping will have
to be done by hand unless you have a special tapping head that is
not cheap! As in $200 or more. I suggest you cut the threads by hand
using a small center in the turret. This will hold the tap on
center. The same applies to the bottoming tap. The last job before
parting is the knarl. If you can get a tool that can be cranked down
like a plumbers cutter, it will take out the pounding you would
otherwise exert on your bearings. With the exception of grinding,
knarling is the WORST thing you can do to most any lathe. The tool I
suggest does all the work leaving your headstock to merely turn.
Setting up an oil pump is a real good idea. It will save you lots of
dough by preventing tool breakage. A steady stream of oil on the
cut-off tool will give a nice finish. Well that's all for now. The
subject is a large one and I have only given you the barest info on
making a simple part. Ron
(21329) |
| Ron, I would also
include a small chamfer tool for the bore after tap size drilling.
This always seemed to help the tap "line up" on the hole and start a
little easier, also lets the screw line up. Sometimes it helped to
go back to the chamfer after all turret ops were done to clean
everything up, as long as it didn't roll a burr into the threaded
hole. I put the tap in one of the turret stations and hand tapped
the hole using one hand on the belt and the other on the turret
lever or wheel with the lathe turned off. After the first couple of
threads "bit" the tap would pull itself in. This only works for
small threads. It can also wear out your left arm in a hurry. My Dad
did tapping with the back gears but I can't remember if he used the
gearbox or just let it feed. The motor pitch would tell him when to
stop and reverse to break the chip. Paul (21331) |
| Thanks. The
handlever turret was used on a SB 9X36 model C, SN 72241. The lathe
itself has been sold, but I have LOTS of tooling for it... 3 and 4
jaw chucks, collets, tool posts, tool bits, etc. I'd like to sell
all of it. All of this is in eastern Long Island while I'm in Fort
Lauderdale. Would I be better off moving it down here? I'd prefer to
sell the whole package on a pickup basis rather then mess with
individual sales and shipping, etc. Charlie (21557) |
| 16" turret
lathe |
| I purchased a 16"
SB turret lathe today. The bed is excellent condition and all of the
components are there. Will a standard 16" SB lathe tail stock fit?
Is the spindle 2.5"x6? Richard (25177) |
| Yes it will. I
bought a SB 16" turret also but mine has a regular tailstock. Does
yours have a 2H tag on it? Bob (25180) |
| I will not be able
to check the serial number and other information until this weekend.
I will post plenty of pictures. I have only seen one tailstock and
he wanted $142 with shipping. There are so many extras that I need
to find for the lathe. Do you have any documentation on the 16"?
Richard (25278) |
| 6 Position
turret stop for 10" Heavy SB missing 5 screws |
| I am looking for any info on a turret
stop for the saddle. I would like to know how it works and if there
were any manuals for it? I saw this one on Ebay. Tom
(25602) |
| Tom, It shouldn't
be too hard to make one that's a good pic. It clamps on the way to
bump your carriage up against. You can rotate the top for different
stops (Lengths) just add longer bolts. Bob (25603) |
| Do you think the
one I saw on eBay which is made by southbend is manual or do you
suppose there is some sort of spring on it to rotate it? (25604) |
| I would think it is
a manual rotate. Maybe it has a detent on the bottom to hold it? Bob
(25605) |
