| Scrapping the Bed (Feb 2,
2001) |
Heavy Ten bed regrind
(Jan 31, 2003) |
| Cost to Regrind your bed
(May 8, 2001) |
Bed
scraping? (Aug 26, 2003) |
| Bed truing and such. (May
10, 2001) |
Hardening vs. scraping/glaking (Dec 14, 2003) |
| Opinions wanted (Jan 18,
2002) |
To
scrape or not to scrape (Dec 28, 2003) |
| Bed regrinding/scraping required
(Apr 20, 2002) |
Chicago Area Bed Grinders? (Jan 9, 2004) |
| Regrinding ways (Jun 8,
2002) |
Marking blue compound substitution for hand scraping (Feb
10, 2004) |
| Bed grinding, help? (Jun
28, 2002) |
Lathe scraping bar (Apr 27, 2004) |
| Ways regrinding (Jul 20,
2002) |
Way
regrinding (May 2, 2004) |
| Bed re-scraping (Aug 14,
2002) |
Getting bed reground (Oct 20, 2004) |
| Recutting the ways (Sep
2, 2002) |
My
reground bed (Oct 29, 2004) |
| Ways regrinding info.
(Sep 25, 2002) |
Making scraper from an old file (Nov 21, 2004) |
| |
| Scrapping the Bed |
| I contacted SB to
see if the will regrind beds. They informed me this is a common
service they provide. Price is as follows in US Dollars. Regrind bed
and refit saddle is $750.00 plus about 3hrs labor for hand scrapping
$90.00/hr. Takes about 3 -4 weeks to complete. This amounts to about
$1020.00 plus shipping. If I lived in the USA, I would not think
twice about getting this done. However, being a Canadian, Shipping,
customs and exchange rates make it much less attractive. They still
make the 9" lathe but call it a South Bend 10-inch Precision Lathe.
The price is a whooping $12,000.00. So having the bed reground maybe
worth it. Go to the SB home page and look at the 10" lathe. Has not
changed is over 60 years. Jim (155) |
| Cost to Regrind your bed |
| This is a quote
from Randy Reynolds at South Bend about 2 weeks ago. "To regrind a
10k bed is $782.00 plus $270.00 to re-scrape the saddle to the bed.
$1052.00 and you pay the transportation both ways. The turn around
is about 6-8 weeks, maybe less but I can't promise. If you want to
send the bed and saddle in, just contact Ralph in parts and get an
RGA # to put on the parts so they will be marked as your property.
1-800-245-2843." (604) |
| Ray: That is not a bad price for a
lathe bed regrind. Monarch will charge you $3500 to regrind the bed
of a monarch toolmaker's lathe 10EE. It is another $4K to have the
headstock, saddle and tailstock aligned as well. There are
operations out there that can regrind a bed with an automated
machine which they claim is 1/5 the cost of hand regrinding. I could
look up two outfits if you are still interested. They may not want
such a small job. They claim that they can regrind any bed that is 4
feet by 19 feet with an accuracy of 0.000030 inches per foot. Not
bad. I was thinking about getting my lathe bed reground (48" off of
a heavy 10) until it got damaged in shipping. Does anybody want to
buy a 48" SB heavy 10 lathe bed? It is 60 years old and I can
provide pictures once the apron and headstock are removed. I could
just ship it to the SB factory for a regrind and they can ship it to
you. You pay shipping really one way if you are on the East coast. I
will make a wooden box for it. Jim (605) |
| Bed truing and such. |
| As a lurker, I
noticed a thread of interest regarding grinding of lathe ways. Some
of you might be interested in learning more about scraping ways. By
way of lack of attention to detail, I acquired an SB 13. Cir 1934
according to SB. Needless to say a formal examination during tear
down revealed extensive wear at all suspect locations. Ways, saddle
and of course the tail stock base plate. Until recently, I had no
idea that SB would regrind old beds. I discovered that here.
Compared to local quotes for grinding, SB's rates are reasonable.
Even though, for me, they make no economic sense. Suffice to say,
that I decided to scrape my out of a nasty position. The project is
still some distance from completion but, so far, it's coming along
nicely. For those interested, be warned that the process of scraping
is one that will lend new definition to the word tedious. But it's
not out of the question for those with the inclination, provided
that time to completion is not an issue. There is very much that can
be discussed on the matter and I won't burden the group with it on
this introductory post but if anyone has specific questions, please
post them and I will try my best to expand on what I have learned
from the project so far. There is much more to be learned
of that I'm certain.
(625) |
| Well, since you offer I can't resist:
I can I think understand how one would go about scraping in a
smallish piece of stock while checking it on a surface plate. But
how does one do something long and narrow like a lathe bed? What
kind of reference surfaces do you use? And if the lathe has V ways,
as SB's do, how do you handle that? Chris (626) |
| The matter of
references, measurement and spotting tools is of course the most
important consideration in any scraping project. All remarks are
based on the assumption that critical leveling of the unit has been
accomplished before hand. Confining my remarks to this SB13, I rely
on a 3 ft Starrett straight edge though I wish it were
longer and wider. A sensitive Starrett level and a pair
dial indicators mounted on simple maple block which rides on the
ways as they are being roughly pared down. The dial indicators
monitor the working height of the way, relative to the flat surface
below. Also the saddle must be scraped true, so it can be employed
as a spotting tool as well. The unworn portion of the ways, along
the head stock were left intact. I wanted them to remain as a
touchstones for relative height and shape considerations, while the
process of rough scraping continued. Since the tail stock end of the
ways are much less worn than other areas, it's possible to bear the
straight edge on those two points and, with feeler stock, determine
the amount of material removed at given point in between. Later, I
developed the simple maple block idea to hold a pair of dial
indicators. Two inverted V's, in the block, closely approximate the
way shape. The indicators are zero'ed at the head end and passed
along the scraped portion. The intent is to monitor uniformity of
stock removal. This block should be machined from metal stock but
since we're all poor boyz here, we make do with what we have at
hand. When way height is uniform within .001 or so, the tail stock
end of the ways are pared down and the straight edge is used as a
spotting instrument to bring each way surface into a straight
uniform line. The dial indicators are used periodically to make sure
that a height trend is not developing. BTW, when speaking of
spotting, I am referring to the use of a dye marker that's placed on
the spotting instrument and transferred to the working surface by a
small rubbing motion. The marker that I'm using is called Hi Spot
Blue, by Dykem. It's not the best and it's messy as hell but it was
locally available. Since the amount of wear in an old machine can be
extensive, it's also certain that the saddle is almost beyond hope.
This one was. Fortunately, a shop in OH put me in touch with a
material called Turcite. It's a plastic impregnated with Teflon and
it's designed expressly for this application. After scraping the
saddle straight and parallel, it's placed on the semi fashioned ways
with the intent of determining how much Turcite must be added to bring
it up to original working height and level. In this case, I added
.043 to the front and .031 to the rear. Some distance down the road
from there, it still looks like those numbers will be very close.
Once the saddle is put in near original condition, it's also used to
check scraping for positive bearing on all surfaces. Spotting
compound is placed on the inverted ways and the saddle moved a small
amount on the ways to indicate relative high and low spots. It would
take a small book to cover the project and it's still not
completed. But I would be happy to continue with this thread if
there is continuing interest. (627) |
| Earl: Wouldn't you
need a granite flat to put the bed on and then use that as a
reference surface? The $1100 for a regrind sounds like a bargain
given that the time required to do this yourself is probably going
to be over 200 hours. What do you use to scrape the bed? An
oilstone? How is the straight edge used? The saddle for a heavy 10
is on the order of at least $1443 and $1000 more for a casting. This
part was trashed in my lathe and it was then that I decided to part
it out. I think that the plastic on the saddle is going to wear
quickly or be compressible. Some plastic will deform over time or
after the absorption of machine oil. Reinventing the wheel can be
fun, but should only be attempted by those with very much time on
their hands. If it were me, I would get a second job and then send
the bed out for a regrind and have the saddle repaired. The saddle
on my lathe was very worn, but I did not measure how much. I'd be
afraid to measure the flatness of the bed and how much material was
missing from the saddle ways. It would be interesting to see how
this turns out and how long it lasts. Keep us posted. Jim(628) |
| Jim: If a granite
flat were required in order to maintain a condition of straight and
level, it wouldn't be much of a machine tool. Moreover, if grinding
or scraping were done while the bed were supported continuously, it
would no longer be so when returned to its base and put into
operation. Scraping "as she stands" makes more sense to me for that
reason. Turcite is a material that was developed expressly for use
in machine ways and bearing surfaces and has been used on new
manufacture for some 20 odd years. It will probably not bear up as
well as a metal surface but it has the virtue of being easily
replaced while not materially affecting the cast iron surface on
which it rides. I kinda like that. For this machine, once returned
to service, it should last forever. Certainly that would be true for
this type of casual service. Also consider that Turcite has the
virtue of having a lower coefficient of friction as well. Your
concerns for the viability of Turcite are probably widespread. If it
turns out to be not as advertised I have lost little. Except the
cost of a new saddle. There is only a couple of hours work in
installing the Turcite. Materials are about $100 including the
special epoxy. If money were no object, I would have had the ways
reground had I known about it before starting. But, the
extra cost was important for this application it means I
can spend more on tooling. In addition to grind cost, there is also
the matter of shipping from the west coast. I can't imagine anything
less than an additional $500 round trip. Another factor to bear in
mind with a regrind is that all elevations are changed by the
regrind. So much so, that gears, lead screw and associated
mechanisms must be repositioned relative to the new head stock
elevation. I have no intention of scraping anything that changes the
head stock position. It will remain at the same elevation as new.
The saddle and the tailstock will be brought up to original plane or as close as I can finagle them. Your estimate of 200
hours is probably on the low side. I would guesstimate double that.
It is tedious. At least the initial hogging off of material is. The
low spot on this machine was .018. Exactly where you would expect
it. On the inside of the front way and forward of the chuck. This
meant that at least .018 has to be removed from all four surfaces.
That's tedious. I'm presently trimming and finish scraping the ways.
It's less tedious. But very time consuming nonetheless. The cycle of
spotting, scraping, cleaning, re-sharpening the scraper and
re-spotting is an endless repetition. Counted in the hundreds, if not
thousands of times. Truly it's not for the faint of heart but
neither is it beyond the capabilities of anyone with patience and
the desire to see something hopeless come alive again. For scrapers,
I was fortunate to have a couple of old files that were sufficiently
hard. They may fall short of a commercial scraper if you
can find one but they have served the purpose pretty well.
If a commercial scraper would hold an edge better than a good file,
I would buy it because an inordinate amount of time and effort is
devoted to re-sharpening. Each cycle at least. The process of
learning to re-sharpen properly and quickly was extensive. It
demanded a lot of time, effort and experimentation to learn
initially. Even though I have been a woodworker for many years and
am accustomed to re-sharpening by hand. The proper edge is not one
that looks like a wood chisel. Or any other chisel or plane iron you
have ever seen. The proper edge is really a negative angle. It is
somewhat greater than 90 degrees as it contacts the work surface.
Think of rough honing a square - blunt - surface on the end of a
(file) scraper. Then angle the scraper toward you about 10 degrees
and fine hone the cutting edge. That's about the ideal in my
experience. The overall cutting edge should be slightly
ever so slightly radiused. The angle of attack relative to the
work will vary slightly as the edge dulls. Shallow is possible when
sharp and steeper as it dulls. Dull happens far too quickly. Hope
that answers your questions. jmorrphd (629) |
| Earl, I think the
thread you started on bed truing and scraping is very interesting.
You got my respect just for having the "bottom" to tackle something
that takes that much perseverance. Doubt I ever would, once I
figured how many Sunday afternoons it would take in the shop
listening to NPR while scraping away. Hougha! Go to it and keep us
posted on the tricks and techniques. Has anyone purchased one of the
books on scraping or machine tool repair that Lindsey publications
sell? I would be interested in opinions on whether any of them are
worth reading if I wanted to pick up enough knowledge and techniques
for small scraping jobs. Maybe that is a miss-nomer, maybe there are
no small scraping jobs if it takes over 200 hours to scrape the ways
on a SB. Hmmm? (632) |
| Opinions wanted |
| Lacking a mill, is
it feasible to lap the ways back to true? My carriage is somewhat
wasp-waisted, haven't measured it yet but if I set the gib for no
slop in the middle of the travel there's no getting it more than an
inch either side of that before it binds up.. I'm thinking if I set
the gib a little loose, the lapping compound will bite more at the
ends of the travel where it is worn less...and if I use some yellow
[soft] shim brass on the non-gib side, the iron will lap and the
brass won't; seems to me I heard once that it's the harder material
gets removed, not the softer lap... JWE? Mert? Anyone? scraping, I
flaked the flat surfaces of the saddle, using the "bump" method.
This is supposed to make it look as though the saddle was
refurbished by an experienced professional, rather than a novice
like me... manner to the saddle. Only one side of the dovetail was
re-machined, since the gib protects the other side from wear. For
setup in the mill, the gib was held in place by magnets, and the gib
surface was indicated in. The photo also shows a brass shim I made
to compensate for material removed by wear and machining. The trough
(surface in the photo where the gib rests) also had to be milled to
compensate for removed material. complete with taper attachment and
cross feed screw. variation over the cross slide travel range. I am
satisfied with how this project has turned out. The lathe works much
better than before. (2801) |
| Lapping is a very
fine process, and doesn't remove much material. That is why I had to
resort to machining, which is much rougher. In _American Machinists
Handbook_, by Colvin and Stanley, they write: "From a production
standpoint lapping is not a stock removal operation. In no case
should more than 0.0005-inch material be left for the lapping
operation. Lapping is not intended to replace grinding, but further
to refine pieces beyond that point of finish and accuracy produced
by the grinding operation." (7th edition, p. 540, printed in 1940)
To get an idea of how much wear you have on your saddle, you can
place a straight reference bar (or even a cheap metal ruler) along
the worn surface, and see what thicknesses of shims or leaf gage
slide under the straight bar. Although I didn't do this for my
saddle, I know that some of the old scoring marks were still
visible, even after machining down more than 0.010-inch below the
flat way surface. Jon (2802) |
| Is there anywhere
beside the $100 book that I can read about scraping and frosting? I
just cannot see spending that much money on that book yet. I would
like to try my hand but I don't really understand what the tool
looks like or what direction you are supposed to move it. Gerald
(2805) |
| Gerald, I bought
the book and video from the below web site. I found that they were
both quite good. Tex
http://www.machinerepair.com/home.html
(2806) |
| Interesting site and nice teasers for the book and video. I'm
not sure if I still wouldn't buy Connelly's "Machine Tool
Reconditioning" book over this because Connelly's book covers so
much more. Even If I never do all the stuff in that book, I think
I'd use enough of it to make it worth while, and the rest is just
good reading and learning. I just love learning about all this.
Paul R. (2810) |
| Bed
regrinding/scraping required |
| I am a Southbend
lathe user here in England, and have used my machine since the 1970
tees, originally it was made in 1955 for a tool room to make tapered
components. Now is the time to restore this fine piece of US
engineering, as the bed is very well worn in places and the saddle
is a bit lofty. Would you like to point me please in the right
direction, thank you and have a nice day. Is it correct that
Southbend has been sold in the meantime? Al (3980) |
| Al, I don't have
any experience with bed regrinding/scraping. Before you go through
that process, have you checked to see how much the wear affects the
accuracy of your lathe? A good procedure to do is "Rollie's Dad's
Method of Lathe Alignment," which is posted at:
http://home.attbi.com/~wasser/NEMES/RDMLatheAlignment.html
For saddle repair, if the wear in the saddle prevents your cross
slide from working well, then you can see what I did to a lathe in
the "photos" section of this forum. I don't claim it to be the best
method of repair, just the best that I was able to do as a novice. I
have not heard about South Bend being sold. Jon (3982) |
| Al, I had my bed
reground a few months ago. Southbend did it and what a beautiful job
they did!! They also scrape the saddle to ride correctly on the bed.
In retrospect I should have sent the complete saddle with everything
on it up to the compound rest so they could have re-scraped all the
wear surfaces. The price was around $1100. Alex (3984) |
| Alex; I was
wondering if you could tell me how long the process of having your
bed and saddle done took. I may be ready soon to take this step if I
cant find one and just buy it. I wonder how long my lathe would have
to be out because I use it almost daily in work. Jim
(3996) |
| Jim, I actually
deleted the emails I had with the factory. I believe it was quoted
at 6-8 weeks and it took less than that. I emailed the service
department and they replied right away. I had to send mine back to
be redone though so it took even longer. It was no fault of South
Bend. UPS destroyed the box shipping it back to me. These morons
must understand that they cannot drop a 100 lb box off their truck.
It makes no difference how good the box is it cannot be thrown
around when that heavy. I sent it to the factory via FEDEX and it
arrived without a scratch - Coincidence? If you use your lathe right
now a lot you can always find a worn out bed + saddle for a
relatively cheap price, get that one reground and swap it with the
one you have when it is finished. Or use the worn out one for now
and send in your original one....just thinking out loud. Alex
(3998) |
| Thanks for all the kind and considered e-mail which you
have send to me and the advice you have given. I will now get my
parts shipped to Southbend and await their good work to be done, as
my machine is being used every day here in the workshop . Al (3999) |
| Alex I will
remember to use FedEx even though I do hate the *** They have lost so
many things for us. But UPS has a rep of breaking heavy things too.
I have been trying to buy another bed and replace mine or have one
reground but I am upgrading so far with the old girl that I really
would like to get a newer bed first. I am going from a single
tumbler qc to a wide range and several other modest changes just
for the h of it I guess. I could re-drill and all the mounting on
this 43 mod. but a mid 70s would bolt together. If I can find one
cheap I would still regrind. I had a old machinist tell me years ago
that there are no better beds. If a bed is reground after say 30 yrs
in the field and made like new because there are no way any stress
or such could be left in the old thing. So grinding is a definite
maybe for me. Thanks for all the help Did you crate or just box the
bed? I seen one guy sent me one, great bed but wrong config. that he
knew how to crate a bed. He bolted through the bed one bys of lumber
and then strapped them together and even ups tried to tare the thing
up and busted two boards but didn't hurt the ways. Just wondering.
Jim (4004) |
| Regrinding ways
|
| Have any of you all
out there ever send your lathe back to SB to have to have the ways
reground and/or the saddle and cross slide. Was just wondering the
cost and turn around time. However with the current state that SB is
in this may be a thing of the past anyway. Wonder if LeBlond will be
doing any regrinding or repair. Ed (4509) |
| It cost about $1100
and 4 - 6 weeks of time. They did an excellent job. Like new. Alex
(4512) |
| Bed grinding,
help? |
| I got my 10"
stripped down and everything looks good except there is a strange
bit of wear on part of the ways. The ways that the carriage rides on
look fine, but the one "V" way in the back that the tailstock rides
on has a long, low wear spot around the middle. It looks like
someone let the steel piece of the way wiper fall down and it acted
like a scraper. But this is only on one side of the "V". So will
this affect tailstock accuracy? The tailstock seems to slide back
and fourth over this spot without catching. Has anyone had their
lathe ways re-ground? I am assuming this is not cost effective for
old lathes although I have heard of it being done. I had a guy in
town quote 500 to 1000 bucks, which is probably not worth it for me.
Joe V. (4792) |
| I have a lathe
with a similar problem. I am going to have the scored side of the
way filled with either Turcite or Moglice. I am thinking of moglice
as it is castable and the groove in the back of my front way is quite
deep. I am thinking of using a piece of ground flat stock to form
the outside of the mold. Turcite comes in strips and is applied and
then scraped. I am not sure how hard it is to scrape this stuff vs.
regular scraping of a flat surface which is an art that takes time
to learn. Perhaps you could get the guy that offered to regrind your
ways to do the job. The price he quoted you to regrind the ways is
quite reasonable so perhaps he would do this for a couple of
hundred. Yasmiin (4793) |
| Ways regrinding
|
| I talked to South
Bend last week and was told that things looked good at the present
to have the doors open again and doing some work around the first
part of August. I am considering sending or taking my lathe to them
and having the ways reground and saddle scraped in to fit. Have any
of you all ever sent your lathe to them for regrinding. Is it
expensive and what about the quality of their work.. Also was told
they might be getting part of the parts business back. Hope so as my
order to LEBLOND has still not been shipped after almost 2 months.
ED (5240) |
| I was quoted about
$1200 for a 3.5' bed. A local guy that does all makes of lathes
quoted $400. Marv (5242) |
| Where are you
located and who's the local guy? I'm near Chicago and haven't had
any luck finding anyone that'll touch regrinding my bed. (5247) |
| Maybe I'm wrong on
this, but didn't SB's quote include matching the components to the
bed after grinding? I can't imagine getting away with less than
about$600 for re-scraping the saddle, making sure the cross-slide
alignment remains square with the ways; re-scraping and aligning the
tailstock with spindle parallel both directions, and then re-scraping
the headstock, aligned both directions and concentric on height with
the TS center height. I could probably do the saddle in a short
evening, the TS including alignments in a long 2, and the headstock
might take 2 or 3. On the headstock, most of the time would be spent
aligning and inspecting, though that is where the most metal would
need removed to get back down to TS center height, which wears a lot
more. smt (5248) |
| I'll grab his
number (it's at work) for you. I am not endorsing this guy, I'm just
passing on what I was quoted. I'll post his number Monday night and
you can talk to him and see if it meets
your needs. He is
located near Dayton, Ohio. Marv (5249) |
| $400.00 would scare
me. the guy I know won't touch a lathe or mill for les then $1000.00
there's more to it then just grinding the ways. I don't know
everything involved but there seemed to be a lot of attention to
detail that he had on our mill. And now its better then the factory
specs. Just remember sometimes you get what you pay for. Kerry
(5251) |
| Yeah. I would agree
with that and that is why I qualified it by stating that I don't
endorse this guy, only that I am passing on knowledge. I have not
seen his work or know his credentials. He might be amazing or he may
make a mess. If you want my opinion (and I'll still give it even if
you don't), I would list the manufacture as the first place to go,
bar none. Given that SB is in deep trouble right now, you need to
weigh the risk of the plant closing and the possible loss of your
lathe (worst case). It is not an easy choice, either way. Marv
(5252) |
| Company near
Chicago that can do it is condor precision scraping service. they
are right across from midway airport. gerry wosniak. (? sp) is the
guy you want to talk to. Condor Machine Tool CO 5315 West 63rd
Street, Chicago, IL 60638 (773) 767-5985 they do great work. I have
had them work on a couple of other things, not my lathe. Only thing
is they have a pretty good backlog and do lots of travel work. It
might be a while however, I was very happy after my wait for my
stuff. dennis (5269) |
| I just spent a week
making a t-slot cross slide for myself and I had considered
re-grinding my bed also. One thing I learned the last few weeks is
that you have to be careful putting newly re-furbished parts on a
worn out lathe. My new cross-slide is flat, but the carriage ain't.
If your bed needs to be re-ground then the odds are good that the
carriage and tailstock are "worn in" to the "worn" bed. My point is
that re-grinding may create more problems than it fixes.
Joe V. (5378) |
| Dennis, all,
Still there ? the post was from July. How long was the wait ? about
anyway, I know it will always change, but 6 weeks is lots different
than 26 weeks. and roughly speaking, how much did he charge ? There
is a guy here in the Philly area that does Bridgeports exclusively, at
about $400.00 each. takes about 6 weeks and he will not travel.
seems he's got all he wants or needs. I am still looking into the
best way to get the 9" up to speed. Seems the grinding is easier
than hand scraping or Moglice. one of those exchange $$ for time
things. In searching, I have not found many people that did
re-surface the ways. anyone want to post their experiences ? Dave
(6290) |
| This issue has
been discussed on several lists so I wonder sometimes when I am
reposting material. As most of you know I rebuild machine tools so
the issue of resurfacing ways in one that comes up often. First I
would say that the $ 400 that that guy is charging for doing a
Bridgeport is the bargain of the century. It costs me $ 1500 to have
the ways of a Monarch 10EE done and that's with me tearing down the
machine and putting it back together. I would love to find someone
to do a machine for that kind of a price. One of the issues about
regrinding the ways of a lathe is the cost of a way grinder. One of
these beasts cost lots of money and is the size of a small house.
Then the work done right is a fussy business. Lots a gaging and
regaging till things are just right. All that said the $ 1500 is
probably a fair price. I never learned to scrape a large surface
flat and square etc. I am building up to repairing the ways of a
couple of 10EE with Moglice. There is a whole lot of gages that I am
buying slowly over time to be able to do this work. You might get a
person that does scraping to come out and scrape your 9" bed. So
then there are three methods that will restore original accuracy of
the machine. 1) Grinding with a bit of scraping. 2) Scraping 3)
Moglice / Turcite and scraping. I can rationalize buying the gages
and tools to do this work myself as, once I learn how, there are a
whole lot of machines that need work. I am still afraid that my
skill level won't get beyond the Moglice type repair for some time
so that seems to send me back to option one for most things and
perhaps some work just scraping where things require just a small
amount of work to get trued up again. Let us know what you decide
and if you find a guy that does scraping let us know. And that
request goes for anyone that knows someone any where in the US that
does affordable work. Yasmiin(6291) |
| Here is my two
cents; I have a 10 heavy SouthBend lathe with a 5' bed. I tried to
scrape the bed true and then realized that I goof big time. Sobels
in NJ recommended a company in Brooklyn NY but they wanted $900 to
regrind the ways only. tried other machine tool rebuilders and they
either didn't want to be bothered or their prices were in the same
range. Then one day through the B to B pages I found a company
called RHS machine tool rebuilders in Newark, NJ about 1.5 hours
from were I lived. The owner asked if I was using the lathe for a
business? I told him that I was a hobbyist and my wife was pissed
that I bought the lathe to begin with. He told me if I was willing
to drop off a clean, bed, carriage and tail stock he would regrind
the bed machine the carriage and line with Turcite and scrape the
tail stock. 4 to 6 weeks later the job was done and I paid the owner
$375. This was about 5 years ago. Now I have a good lathe that I
need to upgrade because The 10" swing is starting to become a little
to small for the work I now get to support my hobby. For what its
worth, if you speak to the owner and are willing to wait go can get
a good deal. Most rebuilders seem to send their work out in bulk to
the guys that own the big grinders. don (6310) |
| I got a quote for
$850.00 for grinding the bed of my 42 inch long 9" includes
carriage
and tailstock. I would have to disassemble the unit, ship only
those parts, and I would need to shim up the tailstock after the
work. 3-4 weeks. Any recommendations on this ? Anything to watch out
for ? shipping ? sending all the parts ? painting before (powder
coating/oven hardening) or after ? Dave (6376) |
| Got to agree with
Alphawolf. Reading is a long way from being. You have to be a
special person to do this kind of work. I too have the book. In the
first chapter, it outlines the profile of the candidate. First you
need to have a good general grounding in machine shop. Then you MUST
have the patience of an oyster. Without these 2 elements forget it.
BUT it IS a worthwhile book. I would try my hand at making and using
a scrapper. Make up 2 6X6X1 inch plates. Face them on a lathe, get
some Prussian blue, make up some scrapers and go for it. It can
either be great therapy or a ticket to the nuthouse! Ron
(6446) |
| Bed re-scraping |
| Is it
possible for just anyone to re-scrape a lathe bed or do you have to
some unusual genetic make-up and gift to do so? Philip (5745) |
| Well I am told by
old timers that the guys in the scraping department used to weigh
250 to 300 lbs and have fore arms the size of trees. I keep hoping
that a scraping class will come available in the Pacific North West.
I keep trying to screw up my courage to try on my own buy usually
end up solving the problem in other ways. I sure would like to hear
from anybody has hands on experience on learning how to do it and
actually doing it on one of their machines. Yasmiin (5747) |
| Yasmiin Try this
site out and check out the files section of the group. Also, get a
book called building the Gingery Lathe from Lindsey's books, and
they are also available on eBay Click this link
http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines
Clint (5752) |
| Yes I have theory
up the wazoo. , it s the practical experience that I am trying to
find. Any self taught scarpers out there? Did you have to scrap your
first couple of machines?
Yasmiin (5753) |
| I have never done
it but the way I understand it, the hardest part is patience, it is
not hard but slow process. there are some hands own experienced
folks in the gingery group that have done it, join it and ask.
Clint (5754) |
| Scraping is like
golf, easy to pick up but tough to master. I am not very good at
either but enjoy the time I spend doing them. I 'consulted' a local
scraper hand for advice. His advise was to get the Morgan book and
video. this was about a year ago and I think I was one of the last
ones to get them before mike's troubles started. I don't know if he
has gotten everything straighten out, but well worth the read. His
other advice was to get the sandvik carbide chip scraper and use the
carbide inserts. second to that is the Anderson tube scraper forget
what the gingery guys preach about files and such. Those guys like
spending 50 hours scheming how to save 50 cents. If you have that
much time to waste then go for it. Me, I have more important things
to do like making a living and enjoying my free time. I like
instant gratification sometimes. The best $50 bucks I spent was on
the scraper and inserts. To sharpen them, I borrow time on a carbide
grinder at a friends. aside from that, I use the marking medium from dapra. I started to used a piece of 1/2" plate glass as a surface,
and then invested into a surface plate when one became available at
the price I was willing to pay. (18X24, b s, circa 1928, original
surface, wooden lid). as far as scraping goes, yes it is tedious
manually. But there is measurable progress. the physical act of
scraping itself is only one fourth to one third the process. Figuring out how much and where to remove metal is the bulk of it.
As with all machining, the precision is what you put into it and how
much setup time you take. So far, I have flattened my phase 2 level,
flattened one side of my MLA transfer block and am working on on
getting the other side parallel. Most of my work was done in the
winter. As the weather is nice, I prefer to spend it outside and
enjoy the sunshine. dennis (5756) |
| Well I guess you
could say I got a gift I had the opportunity to help a retired
scraper rebuild our mill while being instructed on what he was doing
and why. I won't claim to know it all there were some things he did
that didn't make since to me but when he was done the machine was
better then new. There is no secret to it. It is time consuming and
can easily be fouled up be getting in a hurry. One thing though the
job can't be done correctly with out a "master" and to the old
scraper the master was a piece of precision steel in the opposite
shape of what he was scraping on. we had a few masters for working
on the mill. I got to run I'll post more after work. Kerry (5761) |
| I didn't hear
about this - what kind of troubles has Mike run into? (5765) |
| I live in
Sultan that s 6 miles East of Monroe on State Rt. # 2. Have you
found any good sources for used machinery? I sure would like to
avoid some of the shipping costs that I pay from the East Coast.
Yasmiin (5766) |
| His machine repair
business failed, and iirc there were also some family problems. In
the midst of everything, the bank was claiming ownership of the
copyright to his books and video, which prevented him from selling
any. It looks like he has the copyright issue resolved, because he
is filling orders. www.machinerepair.com Look through the archived
posts on the chaski board for details. Ken (5768) |
| Philip- Scraping a
flat surface is "easy" and you could probably pick up the skills in
a few days of practice. A day or so with someone on hand to get you
started, and help you avoid pitfalls like scraping too fine too
early. However, as someone else pointed out, scraping a machine tool
is all about alignments. You can not just go on it and scrape. There
are always alignments that must be correct in at least 2 axis, often
all 3 axis, to tenths (.0001's). To consider a SB lathe bed, there
are 7 flat surfaces on the top, and one under the back ledge, for
which the axis of alignment must all be dead parallel, with no
taper, and no twist to the surfaces, to within a couple tenths for
the entire length of the bed. Each of these 8 long narrow surfaces
also has a particular, though less critical angularity with the
rest. In a sense, (mechanically speaking, i.e.) it is "easy" because
there is not much metal surface area in SB lathe ways, and it is
pretty uniform and soft material. (reason why SB ways wear as you
look at them). You also need some expensive tools. A straight edge
as long as the ways. If you have some experience, you can probably
use one within about 80% of the length. You could use a 3 footer to
do a 42" bed, e.g. You would be stretching your luck and maybe lying
to yourself to use it for a 48" bed unless you do have some real
experience. A new Challenge 4' straight edge was over $1500 and
climbing about 10 years ago when I last checked. If you have a good
surface plate as long across the diagonals as the straight edge, you
can sometimes buy a used one on eBay for in the $500 range, and
touch up scrape and "re- qualify" them yourself. As you can imagine,
you need some test indicators, one or more precision levels
(.0005"/ft/divison or better, like the Starrett 199), typical
inspection tools and micrometers, parallels, adjustable parallels,
planer gage, scrapers, and usually a number of shop made gages and
tools scraped to fit or made for the task. For instance, I would
recommend making a gage for the ways of the lathe as a starting
point. Remove the headstock, and machine and precisely scrape fit a
substantial stress relieved CI gage to the ways in the unworn area
perhaps 3 or 4 inches long. This will be used to keep the ways in
the same relationship at the headstock and tailstock ends. Use it
routinely after every lay of the straight edge. The top of the gage
should be flat and parallel to the reference plane of the ways; so
you can use the precision level on it to avoid twist in the length
of the lathe bed. Every time you scrape one surface, it throws the
whole relationship in a specific direction. You need to use the
spotting information and developed way condition to plan where to
scrape and how to throw it to get the alignment where it needs to
be, while removing the least amount of metal. (both to save the
lathe, and to save work). As far as scraping, use the info from
spotting, don't be shy, dig in deep and shovel off the bad stuff
until the hollows start to disappear and everything begins to line
up. Then settle down and scrape for fineness and finish. BTW, never
(let me repeat, _NEVER_) force the markings. A bad habit to get into
is to press and rub your marking tools in a way that "makes" the
marks appear where you "think" they should be or "want" them to
appear. That ruins your gages, and of course makes bad work and
wastes time. Use good procedures, a light touch on the marking
tools, and trust them. (If you don't trust them, prove them before
using, or you are wasting time) The "bible" is _Machine Tool
Reconditioning_ by Edward F Connelly. Check you Library or
inter-library loan. It is available new for around $100, they
advertise in HSM. (Gloat: got mine from the late author himself,
back when he had just raised the price to 27.50, and I though that
was a lot of money!). I've been scraping for a bit more than 15
years, enough to have forgotten a lot of the small items. My first
piece was an MLA fitters straight edge, still much used for scraping
dovetails and small pieces. Major pieces include a complete
re-scrape of a large sized mill-drill after wearing it out once. All
the accessories to a Hardinge split bed lathe. The front end (ramways
are pressure oiled and didn't need it) and vise of a Rockford heavy
16" shaper, a Brown Sharpe 6 x 18 grinder, some woodwhacking
machines including the copehead slide ways on a tenoner, headstock,
spdle bearings and slideways of a Greenlee automatic mortiser,
slideways on a heavy double spindle shaper, many, many dozens of
gages, small pieces, flats, assemblies, etc., etc. Smt (5769) |
| I agree. Without
reservation MTR is the bible, and a great (if slow) read. All I've
scraped are chuck back-plates and the underside of a 7x10 lathe bed,
but I really appreciate the thought and experience Connelly put into
his book. I purchased my copy about 6 months ago (at its current
high price). Paul R. (5770) |
| Great -- I have had
the book for 15 years but never tried to scrape something. This
shows that one can "learn" but don't expect to scrape a bed any time
soon. Still sounds lake a lot of work and a big time upfront expense
for tools. Wonder how this compares to a Turcite coating followed by
scraping. Still the same for tools but wonder about the learning
curve? Yasmiin(5773) |
| Think the idea of
Turcite (or more probably you are referring to one of the castable
bearing products) misses the point. The work is not in physically
scraping off the rather soft cast iron ways. It is in all the
stopping, inspecting, and spotting to keep the alignments in shape.
I didn't even get to the ones you have to do to get the headstock
and tail stock aligned for height, dead on collinear with both
barrels parallel to the bed (no slope either way). Don't forget,
crosslide dead square with the ways, for facing, or a very few
tenths concave cutting from the front to center, across say 6". No,
I personally can't see a significant time advantage for using a
castable bearing product. That aside, I have doubts that there are
really durable castables suitable for long narrow ways, yet. Turcite
will embed grit and act as a lap. Castables are somewhat soft, and
abrade accordingly if unprotected as would be the case with open
ways. Most such products are intended to form the surface that rides
on the ways. I have never worked with Turcite, but I have worked
with machines that were turcited by professionals (Hardinge factory,
for one) and imperfect adherence can still be an issue in
unfavorable circumstances. My understanding from people who have
worked with it is that it is expensive, and not a panacea if the
system is ill designed to accommodate it. It might be an interesting
experiment to turcite the saddle itself, and maybe the crosslide.
You have given me an idea, though. Instead of machining the master
gage for keeping the ways in alignment with factory geometry, it may
be worth researching a castable product to make that gage, possibly
with a touch up scrape fitting for any slight dimensional change
after a suitable post cure rest period. I have reprothane materials
for foundry pattern duplication that have ridiculously low shrinkage
and distortion characteristics. Would imagine the bearing materials
are at least as stable. Yasmiin (5777) |
| Well I was thinking
of turcite in long flat strips and not a castable bearing compound.
It's is used on ways a lot. Yes it can in bed grit but that is the
very problem I am trying to fix on my first Moglice outing. A
Monarch 10EE that was used as a cutoff machine for 20+ years and no
one paid any attention to chips being buried under the inside front
V way wiper. As you probably know Monarch 10EE ways are harder than
about any way ever made. Scraping on the way isn't an option so
filling in this case is the only solution. That is in bedding grit /
chips is a problem on any machine if you don't keep it clean.
However, I do have a neat old surface grinder that I got for $ 30
and scraping will work there and on a number of other machines if I
could learn how. One of my concerns is the number of bearing points
per square inch. The Turcite / moglice talks about 10 per sq. inch
with 60% full contact. Other publications talk of 40+ per square
inch. 10 I think I could do but the higher #'s seem out of reach. As
to tools you are certainly pointing out the large investment.
However, I do think you can do things without a Colinear (Colimeter
(SP)). I do agree that they are great but really expensive. Yasmiin
(5786) |
| Yasmiin!
No I do not know any good sources, but I'm sure there is some in
Seattle or Tacoma. There is Benoit sheet metal up close to your neck
of the woods that I have used in the past. They usually carry new
used sheet metal equip. though. Check out there web
www.benoitsheetmetal.com You never know what they might have. I
live in Bremerton ,WA. I usually go up to the Monroe swap meet twice
a year. Butch (5899) |
| Recutting the
ways |
| A machinist friend
of mine came to my little shop this past weekend with the bed of a
wore out 9 inch SouthBend lathe. The lathe really is wore beyond
reasonable effort to repair. He clamped the 36 inch long south bend
bed onto the table of my vertical mill and cut all the surfaces of
the ways. I was certain it was not possible to make a good job of it
because my vertical mill only has 25 inches of x travel so it was
necessary to cut all that he could , then unclamp the bed and move
it over . Indicate it back in and clamp .And then he made the
continued cuts join up with barely a tenth of a thousands
difference. Very impressive work. As I said in the first paragraph
the old 9 inch lathe is really ragged out all over. He has the bed
and the carriage finished now .He had my only vertical mill tied up
all weekend when I would have liked to be using it myself. I was so
impressed though with seeing the work being done by a very skilled
machinist that I am hoping that he comes back to finish the rest of
the old lathe. Going to be interesting if he decides to hob out new
gears for this machine with the equipment that I have in my shop.
The question that came up .The old lathe did not have hardened ways
and was wondering how common that was or does it indicate that it
was a cheap hobby lathe or old as hell or what? Alphawolf45 (6128) |
| Many lathes of this class,
including, I think, most South Bend, and most Logan Lathes, did not
have hardened beds, except as an option. This does NOT indicate a
"cheap hobby lathe." It is a way to save on the cost of manufacture,
and if the bed is a high quality casting (such as the SB or Logan)
it is a reasonable compromise. Scott Logan (6130) |
| Was the 9" SB ever
available with hardened ways? My 1958 catalog talks about optional
hardened ways for the 10" and larger, but not the 9". Even with the
larger lathes, I don't think hardened ways ware a common option in
that era, although it became more common as time went on, until I
believe it became standard on the heavy 10 (the only lathe of that
vintage whose production continued to the present). In any case,
lathes without hardened ways are clearly not necessarily "cheap,
hobby lathes". There are certainly cheap, hobby lathes out there
without hardened ways, (as well as with hardened ways), but there
are also high quality (older) lathes (including the 9" SB) without
them. Frank (6131) |
| My 1963 SB catalog
says hardened ways optional. My 1968 SB catalog says says from the
heavy 10 up hardened ways were standard. Walt (6150) |
| Ways
regrinding info. |
| There has been some
discussion of late about ways regrinding. I just got an email from
Southbend. They quoted me $950 to regrind the bed of a 3 1/2 Heavy
10 and $270 to scrape and fit the saddle. Just thought I'd post this
in case some of you are thinking about rebuilding and now that SB is
up and running again. I hope for a long time to come. (6456) |
| Southbend is back in
business? I thought I just saw an auction URL itemizing their
inventory of tools and everything else up for grabs in their
Southbend IN. plant. Jim
(6458) |
| No they are history
but the person may have been talking to the company that took over
the spare parts section of their business. I believe that company
does some rebuild work on several machines that they sell spare
parts for. Yasmiin (6460) |
| I guess that would
be LeBlond? Does anyone know where the machine has to be taken?
Jim (6461) |
| I think I may need
to clarify my recent post concerning ways regrinding. South Bend is
indeed back in business and up and running. I talked at length this
morning to Randy Reynolds, service manager at SB. South Bend has
been bought by a employee who has about 30 years with the
company. They plan on building the same line of lathes and etc. as
before with perhaps the addition of another geared head lathe.
Mention has been made of a recent auction at SB. This was to sell off
a lot of old and outdated equipment.. LeBlond will still handle parts
for SB. So if you need parts, manuals or info on a serial number
contact LeBlond If you need your lathe rebuild call South Bend. Their
phone number and web site remain the same. Turn around time for
regrinding is about 6 to 8 weeks.. I wish South Bend the best and
hope they are around another 100 years. So pass this info along and
visit their website and give them a holler. Ed (6466) |
| Thank you for
posting this very informative message. I have just today spoken with
Randy who is extremely knowledgeable and helpful. If he is an
example of the "new" SB, then it will take over the world! I hope
their company goes public - what a great place! Frank (6469) |
| Heavy Ten bed
regrind |
| I just got my Heavy
Ten Toolroom Lathe Bed back from South Bend where they reground the
4' bed and scraped in the saddle. The ways are in excellent
condition. The saddle was scraped to fit the bed and was surprised
to find they also scraped in the cross-slide surfaces. I had already
carefully scraped in the crosslide flat and parallel because I
thought I would need it as a tool to scrape in the cross-slide
surfaces. Saved me a lot of time. While it was in South Bend I had a
chance to inspect the 5 C headstock, apron, gearbox, and the
telescoping taper attachment. Found them all in very good condition.
This 30 some year old lathe was sold to Amp Corp and from the copper
shavings was not used for heavy duty stuff. The full collet stuff
that came with it looks like it may have been used that way, with
little threading ,etc. The 2 speed motor and pushbutton control also
look great. I got a new ad from SB and found at today's prices of
the optional 2 speed motor and controls would have bought me this
lathe with lots of extras and the cost of regrinding. The new SB
Heavy Ten Toolroom lathe they sell today looks and has all the same
equipment as mine except it has a 4-1/2' bed and hardened ways. It
lists ( April 1, 2000 ) at $ 16,000 and the 2 speed motor and
control is $ 2,200 in addition not counting tax and shipping.
Needless to say I am looking forward to putting everything back
together and running it. For you guys on the fence to bring your
lathes to great shape call Randy Reynolds 1-800-245-2843 at South
Bend and get a quote. Great guy to deal with. Walt (9007) |
| If it is not to
tacking to ask about how much does it cost to get a bed reground and
scraped? (9015) |
| It was $ 1220 total
and they made my lathe like new. Since I took it 100 miles south of
me to SB in Indiana, no cost for shipping, etc, except cost of gas.
Walt (9019) |
| sounds to me like a
very fair price for that amount of work. Congratulations on your
"new " lathe! Frank (9022) |
| Seams fair to
me. (9023) |
| Walt, I did a
search and found this message. I had remembered it from when you
first posted it, no senior moment on this fortunately. Could you
please tell me how long it took for the whole process? I live in
Ohio and can handle the shipping myself and would like to get my 9
inch rejuvenated like you heavy 10. Jim (11992) |
| How much
disassembly did you have to perform for them to do it at this
price? Bryan (14515) |
| Although this post
wasn't directed to me, I thought I might reply. I received my Heavy
10 bed back from SB last week. Total turn around time was a little
over 2 weeks. However I got lucky as they were already doing some 10
inch models and worked mine in. Ways look new. Saddle scraped in to
fit ways. Only thing I sent was basic bed with nothing attached and
basic saddle. Total cost was $1450 not including shipping. Hardest
part was building a sturdy crate to ship in...Not cheap but I have
what amounts to a new machine that should out last me and at a
fraction of the cost of a new machine. Ed (14519) |
| I have never tried
these guys in Tennessee
http://www.schmiedecorp.com/rebuild/grinding.shtml ,
but I suspect they do a lot of work for the DOD. Prices they have
quoted me are less than half of what I am seeing on these posts. If
you try them, let me know what you think. Neil (14536) |
| The service that
LeBlond does is more than just way grinding. IIRC they do EVERYTHING
to bring the lathe back into spec: scrape in the alignment of the
saddle, the tailstock, shim the leadscrew to maintain alignment with
the saddle, align the headstock, flake the ways. grinding is only
about 1/3 to 1/2 of the work. maybe someone who had it done can post
the all the things that were done to their lathe. (14538) |
| Are you speaking of
LeBlond as an alternative to South Bend? It's confusing since
LeBlond bought SB's parts inventory, but SB is now "back" in biz,
etc. I'm moving closer and closer towards accepting that my 10L
needs some serious rework. Wrb (14561) |
| Bed scraping? |
| I understand the
concept (the bed is checked for high spots and a "scraper" is used
to take them off), but I see comments like "my bed still had 75%
scraping". So what does this "scraping" look like? anyone have links
to pictures? just how smooth and level does it get the bed? while
I'm at it, what does the scraper look like? and what about the
mention that these scraping marks carry oil on the bed??? I've also
seen mention of ridges on the bed where it may be worn. are there
ridges that show up on a bed with the vee-ways? I don't see any
ridges on mine, and the bed appears to be pretty straight, but I
don't have any way to check the entire length of it in one shot.
andy b. (13610) |
| Most accurate way
to check bed condition is to cut a test bar or mandrel and check
wear that way. (13611) |
| Andy, Here are my 2
cents .... When people refer to "75% scraping" they are usually
referring to flaking (or frosting) which is a finish that is put
onto the surface after it has been scraped flat. The finish is
scraped in and resembles flakes, or fish scales. (A little more
detail at http://machinerepair.com/faq.html Look under your tail
stock. Wipe the Vs clean and look at the surface at an angle. You'll
probably see it. Regarding the ridges, V ways get them too. Mine has
them. The ways originally looked like this (I think). ----- / / As
the carriage wears, the ways start to look more like this ...
_______ | | / / You can probably feel the ridge before you can see
it. Sorry about the ASCII art. If you haven't already, I recommend
reading .... http://www.mermac.com/advicenew.html
http://www.mermac.com/klunker2.html
Corrections anyone? - Jeff (13612) |
| Hardening vs.
scraping/glaking |
| Were any light 10s
(10K) produced with hardened ways? Mine has very little wear on it
but no sign of flaking Frank Congratulations on your "new" lathe. I
also have a 1957 heavy 10 with hardened ways. At least in 1957, most
heavy 10's were sold with unhardened ways, which were scraped and
flaked rather than ground, as ours were. The optional hardened ways
cost something like 10% of the total cost of the lathe, which I
expect cut down on sales. I think as time went on, hardened ways
became more common on heavy 10's. Later (much later), all heavy 10s
came with hardened ways.
(15607) |
| My 1957 catalog
simply says says 10" in the options for hardened ways, not "heavy
10" or 10L, so it is not clear if it includes the 10K, although I
suspect they mean the heavy 10. However, my 1960 catalog explicitly
shows hardened ways as an option for both the 9" and 10K, as well as
the bigger lathes. So if yours is a later heavy 10 (post 1960) it is
certainly a possibility. If there is no flaking, even on the part of
the bed under the headstock, then it seems to me likely it is
hardened. Try a file on an unimportant part of the ways. A file just
slides over mine. Frank (15618) |
| I think the way to
tell is to look at the serial number or underneath the headstock.
There should be an 'X' or 'R' in the serial number or cast on the
bottom side of the bed where the headstock sits. What vintage of
lathe is yours? I think the Korea beds where hardened, but have no
frosting on them. There should be a tag or plate stating so. The
Korean beds have different feet than the US beds. I think the two
beds I have that have an 'X' underneath the headstock, did have
frosting or scales. And hardened beds can wear. Tom (15628) |
| Were any lathes
produced with hardened ways prior to 1937 or so? I can't find any
traces of flaking on my lathe, even in the headstock area. it is a
1936 11". The spindle and bearings look excellent as well. Is it
possible this bed was reground at a later date? if so, would they
have stayed with the normal scraping, or could they have changed to
hardened? If none of this is possible, what would have been done to
the lathe to remove all traces of flaking? andy b.(15654) |
| Andy I don't see
any reference to hardened ways as an option in either my 1952 or my
1943 catalog. The first reference I have to hardened ways is in
1956, and from reports on this group, it appears that buying that
option in the mid-1950s was relatively rare. That of course doesn't
mean yours aren't hardened. Perhaps the factory would do it on
special order, even though it wasn't in the catalog. I would grab a
file and a piece of mild steel (as a reference), and compare the
degree to which the file "bites" on the mild steel versus some place
on the ways where a touch with a file won't matter. That should tell
you if they are hard. On mine there is a clear difference. If your
ways are ground but not hard, I would guess someone had the lathe
rebuilt (using the regular, mild semi-steel bed) and chose grinding
over scraping and flaking. Frank (15720) |
| Interesting
point, Now how does one exactly scrape? Do you put down that blue
scraping paste, slide the saddle on the bed, then scrape off the
high points on the saddle? keep doing this until max surface is
riding on ways? Now how do you pay attention to how much metal your
removing on both sides, so the saddle rides evenly? Scraping sounds
like a skill that one could greatly benefit from. Perhaps I should
buy that book on reconditioning machine tools.
(15731) |
| When I first
started the re-construction process, I found a very good saddle on
ebay (from Andyswift). my idea was to find a new bed. 2nd hand parts
for SB lathes are difficult to find in Canada. Then I started
thinking that there might be a way to re-condition a bed at home. I
borrowed a copy of Machine tool reconditioning (Conelli) and learned
the basics of hand scraping. The most difficult thing is to get good
reference surfaces. a good surface plate (I got a small 6 X 8 cast
iron plate) a good straight edge. (I wish I had one of these master
precision straight edge that were thrown away because rusted at the
SB plant) I am not an expert on scraping bur I achieved amazing
results so far on parts like a SB taper attachment dovetail The
principle is simple: on the clean reference surface, I apply a thin
layer of marking blue (a drip of oil increases the ease of transfer
of blue). I lay the surface to be scraped on the reference surface.
If the part is small, a small pressure is required. You move the
part to be scraped by about 1 inch back and forth. You remove it
carefully. With a good light, you inspect the markings. With a
scraper, you remove the metal where the marking blue has left
markings. You cycle your part until you get a good contact between
the surfaces. A file is also handy if there is too much work
involved. (for instance a ridge in the V ways on the saddle casting
must be removed before any scraping attempts is made. Otherwise, it
is a waste of time) To spot a saddle on bed ways, you must select
the best spot on the bed. (quite likely at the tailstock end) To
re-surface a bed at home, a good straight edge is required. I will
briefly describe my approach First, I machined a mild steel plate
with V ways like the tailstock bottom casting. I scraped the
surfaces touching the bed ways to get a nearly perfect match.
(required for the headstock alignment on the bed ways) I used the
section located under the headstock for this purpose second: I
re-condition the tailstock ways (V and flat ways) that are likely
the least worn of the lathe by hand scraping (I am still at this
step) The steel plate machined earlier is going to be used to ensure
that the slide is perfectly corrected. A master precision level will
allow to find inaccuracies on the slide third: On the same reference
plate, I mount 2 compound rests that will support a cutting tool.
The cutting tool will remove a slight surface on the inverted V ways
on the lathe. If the tailstock slide is straight, then it should
straighten the other ways. Finishing is then done by hand scraping.
It will be a long process, but it is achievable. On my bed I figured
out that I have to remove 0.006 in material on each sliding surface
before I start scraping. According to dial gauge readings taken with
the bed mounted on an old horizontal milling machine at a school I
was teaching. I was just allowed to set up the bed and do a check. I
couldn't take a slight cut) For those that talk about re-building a
lathe, a full understanding of Chap. 26 of Machine Tool re-conditioning
is a MUST before you do anything. It lays out step by step the
reconstruction of a lathe and its final alignment. Guy (15736) |
| I used to watch the
scrapers at Pratt and Whitney work on the machine ways. Their
precision straightedge was made of Granite. They would put one color
dye on the straightedge and wipe it until it was not visible then
they would put another color dye on the part to be scraped and wipe
it until you couldn't see it. Then they would carefully place the
straightedge on the part and rub it in a circular motion just a
couple of times. The high spots would show up clearly and be scraped
down. It was a long and tedious process which was repeated for
anywhere from a few days to a few weeks. The reference edges were
checked with a laser interferometer periodically. I personally don't
have the patience to do that type of job. They did hand fit the
cylinder to the head on my Porsche and it was an air tight fit with
no gasket. JP (15738) |
| My 16"
has hardened and ground ways you can tell by the heat discoloration
of the metal. Look around where the headstock rests you should see
bands of blue from the heat. (15818) |
| To scrape or
not to scrape |
| The tailstock on my 9" SB lathe is worn. The flat way on
the base has been worn about .006" at the front tapering to about
.003" at the back. This causes the drill to tip down considerably
toward the headstock. In fact, I was drilling an 8" deep hole (from
both sides) recently and had the drill jam on the lands about 3"
behind the edge. The bed looks fairly good. Worn no more than .002"
where the tailstock sits when drilling, about 12" from the
headstock. The outer ways don't look worn any more than the inner
ways. Here is the problem: I have to replace the headstock, (don't
ask long story) which is no big deal in itself. But if I have to
scrape the tailstock straight, I'll also have to lower the headstock
to match. To do justice to that job I am thinking I should re-scrape
the inner ways. This job will need the carriage removed for
convenience sake. SO… should I scrape the outer ways at the
same time? Or am I just making extra work for myself? OR…
should I install the replacement headstock, and use Moglice (I think
that's what it's called) to bring the tailstock into alignment with
the headstock. One further factor I should bring into this is that
the lathe NEEDS to be repainted. Some previous owner used floor
paint gray and a broom. It looks about 1/8" thick in some places.
Although this doesn't affect the performance at all it sure looks
crummy. What to do? Pete (16018) |
| Before you do
anything be sure that your bed is not twisted. Read 14132 first. I
had thought my lathe was good. My tailstock seemed to be down about
0.015. I shimmed it level. Then 14132 came along. I used the
procedure. Then I had to take all the shims out of the tailstock.
Jim B. (16019) |
| Chicago Area
Bed Grinders? |
| Anybody had any
experience with bed grinders/machinery rebuilders local to the
Chicago area. Yeah - I know I'm about 2 hours away from SB I've
got a ROUGH heavy 10 that needs reground and scraped. Bryan
(16390) |
| Give a call to
condor precision scraping service. They are across from midway
airport. http://www.condormachine.com/index.html though, I think
Gerry's price will be in the same ballpark as LeBlond. dennis
(16397) |
| You might also try stk rebuilders in south elgin
www.stkrebuilders.com their main
specialty is Bridgeports, but I don't know for sure what they limit
themselves to. Someone here on the list had sent their bed to SBL
themselves for rework. How did that ever turn out? Lurch (16407) |
| Marking blue
compound substitution for hand scraping |
| I am about to start
the hand scraping of my South Bend 10K bed. I wonder if there is any
substitute to the Prussian blue marking compound. I know that I will
need a lot of compound for the job. Substitute would be used for the
rough scraping (until almost full contact is reached on the bed
slides) I started to scrape the tailstock slide and it is almost
completed (2 surfaces out of 3) So far, I have scraped with success
the taper attachment, compound slide, cross slide and I matched the
saddle to a bed that didn't have any wear marks. Guy (17160) |
| Guy- dapra corp
(who makes power scrapers) has some water based solutions you might
consider. Some people have reported positive results.
http://www.dapra.com/biax/scrapers/#access dennis (17167) |
| Guy, Cadmium
blue artists oil color (the stuff sold in metal tubes for oil
painters) has been recommended by quite a few folks over the years,
probably most any dark blue good quality artists oil paint could be
used. Oil paints dry much slower than acrylics, and clean up easier
as well. O.K. - for this application clean up is easier, not
necessarily for art applications :-) You can thin with turpentine
or raw linseed oil, although the few times I used oil color when out
of HiSpot it seemed OK out of the tube. Raw linseed oil will not
cure for a long time, unlike "boiled" linseed oil which is what you
would normally use with oil color or for rubbed oil finishing of
wood work. You might try a small area and see if the wet time is
long enough for what you want. It seems a tube of HiSpot would
probably do an entire bed at least a few times if put on nice and
thin with a brayer, so you may not find the extra hassle of a
hardening media to be worth what will likely be a nominal cost
saving. Stan (17172) |
| Mert Baker on the
7x list has several times suggested using a lipstick for this type
of job. Just be sure you take one she does not like or use rather
than one she likes. JWE (17175) |
| Guy- are you using
to much and spreading it too thickly? Of course a thick layer is
essential in the early stages when really shoveling off the bad
areas to get down to a more or less level area where one can begin
to actually count spots. But I wonder what compels the search for an
alternative, certainly not price? I completely re-scraped the ways
and table (all of them except the column) on a very worn Brown
Sharpe 6 x 18 grinder, and it took less than a full #2 size tube of
Hy spot. This _included_ making a number of large gages for the job,
for instance a 16" long by 3" tall by about 2" wide double V
straight edge (one edge inside, the other outside V's, all scraped
to other masters and gages) and a number of smaller V and angle
blocks. A RF30 mill-drill (28" table), again all ways, took a bit
more than 1/2 tube. A 16" Rockford shaper all front ways and apron,
but not column or ram) vise all over took about a tube. I keep eying
my 4' 10K, and find it hard to imagine it would take more than a
tube. Probably less. That would include making a few gages to keep
the ways parallel. smt (17186) |
| My main problem is
generating a straight edge that meets the minimum requirements of
flatness for hand scraping. It is where I have spent most of my
first tube. I don't have access to a master precision straight
edge (I would like to find one, even if it were rusted, just for the
casting, min 42 in long) With regard to spreading the compound, I
follow the basic rules explained in Machine Tool Reconditioning. In
order to spread to the maximum the compound, I add a little bit of
oil. (when there is a really thin film of compound, it increases the
capacity of transfer. (trick mentioned in machine tool
reconditioning). It is just that I find that for the beginning, good
marking blue is almost a waste. For the generation of a straight
edge I even thought about using grinding compound and the basic
techniques used to generate an optical flat until I reach the
required shape. Then, finish by hand scraping. Guy (17193) |
| Well I can see
where you are coming from. And the point about "something else"
being useful at the very beginning is an intriguing thought. But my
personal experience is at odds with the notion that Hi-spot blue (or
red) is not economical. I've spent more weeks than I would like to
recall on scraping projects, and would guess that for small machines
like those mentioned, gages, other tools, etc. the consumption rate
is about 1 double sized tube per week. It goes a very long way! I
don't want to create it as an argument, but don't personally thin
commercial spotting compounds with oil. For me it gives a less
distinct mark and makes thing messier (if that is possible!),
especially when scraping fine. But as in most things, whatever works
is the correct approach. Sort of started the wheels turning over on
PM, investigating costs of having a straight edge cast, that I made
patterns for a number of years ago. The project is shown at
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/004011.html
I am not having good luck with responsiveness from foundries. Would
be interested in recommendations for likely candidates within say
300mi+/- radius of Elmira, NY. (I know of Cattail Foundry but they
are not a first choice as I want to specify the iron and stress
relief, rather than "grey iron, as poured") Also, this will only
yield a 30" SE. I've got a 4 footer, and ones around 18". Needed one
in between. BTW, in looking up the price of Hi-spot ($4.88 for
double size tube) I noticed ENCO is also selling water soluble
compound. Anyone tried it yet (ENCO's, specifically)? Comparison
with Dapra? For generating a straight edge, I think scraping is
faster than grinding compound ("lapping"?). Though I do machine or
grind short ones first. One of my grinders will do up to 32", but it
is old and not real accurate at the extremes, about .004 - .006 out
of true flat. So have to finish by scraping anyway. Some time I'll
have a free week or so and re-scraping it. BTW, I'll be out of the
office for a while. Please don't take lack of response to any
(potential) replies or comments as intentional rudeness. smt (17210) |
| Lathe scraping
bar |
| I have listed on
eBay what I was told was a straight edge for scraping lathes. Is
this true, or were they pulling my leg and I am selling a boat
anchor. The item number is 3812706147. Richard (18652) |
| Looks like a boat
anchor to me. I doubt that was used for scraping. possible that it
was used for fine polishing with a light abrasive paste on it or
taped to it. (18653) |
| Scraping is done
with something like item 3808609178 Or by hand with what look like
long chisels. Jeff (18654) |
| Dennis must need a
boat anchor, didn't take him long to bid on it. I have some files
that were flattened on the end and sharpened. I think that is what
they used to scrape with. I also have a black and white photo of a
man scraping a lathe some where. I will post it when I find
it. (18655) |
| Maybe this was laid
down between the ways some how and used as a rest while scraping? It
would be a nice anchor though with a place to tie the rope and
everything!(18656) |
| Richard: I have
seen a "checking" bar similar to that before. It is not used for
scraping but for checking what you have scraped. Notice the angle. I
can bet that is the same angle as the dovetails on the Crosslide of
a Lathe or Milling machine or even the column of a milling machine.
Ron (18657) |
| That IS a tool used
in the scraping operation. It is a reference gauge used to check for
high spots. They are usually made of granite or seasoned cast iron.
You put one color dye on the scraped surface and wipe it off dry and
put another color dye on the reference surface and wipe dry. Then
you gently place the two together and move one with a small circular
motion. Separate the surfaces and the high spots are shown with the
mix of the dye residue very clearly. Scrape down the high spots and
clean all dye off with a solvent and do it all over again as many
times as is needed. This takes a person with a great deal of skill
and patience, or a few gallons of Jack Daniels. I suppose you should
refer to it as a "Reference Gauge" for Southbend Lathe Bed Scraping.
The angles may be used to test the bed way angle. JP (18669) |
| I have
not seen too many boat anchors that are hand scraped. It worth more
than its weight of cast iron. What Richard has listed there is a
precision angle straight edge used to scrape dovetails. Looks like
the angle is 60ø. This straight edge was likely used to scrape
dovetails on milling machines or shapers This is ideal for
re-conditioning a Bridgeport type milling machine with a large
table. It allows to mark high spots on the dovetail surfaces. For
more info on the use of this bar, see Machine tool re- conditioning.
I bought a similar bar last Jan on eBay. (45ø X 48" long). Guy
(18694) |
| Way regrinding
|
| I am restoring a
Model A, 9", vintage 1945 SB lathe. The way that the carriage rides
on has a small ridge indicating wear. I would like to check into the
feasibility of regrinding. Has anyone done this, and if so, what is
involved? Costs? Done anywhere in the Pacific Northwest? Andy (18782) |
| Andy, Check with
South Bend. I had a 10" bed reground there recently and they did a
great job. You also should send your saddle and they will match it
to the bed. Cost was $1200 for all, this seems like a lot but it was
cheaper than 4 other places I checked. You can make a small skid and
bolt the bed to it. This way you can send it common carrier.
Paul (18783) |
| The saddle should
also be sent with it so they can grind and match it to the newly
finished ways. JP (18786) |
| Andy, I sent my
Heavy 10 bed back to South Bend for a regrind last fall. Total cost
including including saddle was about $1200..Turn around time was
about 2 weeks. I am sure a regrind on your 9 inch would be in the
same neighborhood as far as price goes. They did a very good
job. They even sent a note as to how much was ground off the
ways. If I remember it was about 12 thousands. Take my advise should
you decide to sent out for a regrind. Built a crate for your bed. I
built a total enclosed box with a hinged lid. My bed came back in
perfect condition despite boot prints, cat tracks and fork truck
marks on the box. Ed (18787) |
| Find someone who
parts out lathes like i do and get yourself another bed. I
practically give them away. I have a 9" jr, 9" model A and a 13" bed
now. None of them have grooves and any of them can be had for $50.
No they are not perfect, they have nicks and stuff from use but
sure beats paying couple thousand. jeff (18788) |
| Jeff, I'm not in
the market for a new bed yet but do you also have some for the Heavy
Ten and what would it set me back? Tom (18789) |
| I just checked with South Bend and was
advised for the 4 1/2' model the way regrind is $1052 and matching
the saddle is $270. I have not checked yet on freight; but it is a
long distance from Seattle to Ohio or Indiana, wherever they do it.
Also, I may check with a local machine shop (not that many out here)
to see if they could do it. Andy (18802) |
| The carriage or
saddle may need some fitting to the ways. The head might need to be
checked for alignment. You could rebore the headstock bearings for
that. The tailstock might need fitting too. As far as prices for
beds, I could probably sell ones in good to very good shape for
about $100 for a 10K horizontal drive. Shipping cost and poor beds
showing up of E-Bay really hurt, both the price and some buyers. UND
beds are harder to come by and if (OK I do have one I'm holding
onto) I had any in decent saleable shape, I would ask $150. With
matching saddle $200, if I'm in a good mood. I haven't price Heavy
Ten beds. I would think around $100-200 depending on price. I don't
see to many of them on E-Bay. Now tools4cheap seems to be in
Washington state. I think the closing of Boeing Plants would affect
prices on machinery. So that would affect prices. Smaller parts are
easier to ship. So they bring a better price. The bends are very
heavy and shipping cost a bit. I had a bed shipped from Ohio to
Indiana and it cost over $50. E-Bay deal and the bed was crap.
Digital pictures can (usually are deceiving), some sellers haven't a
clue about condition. Tom (18804) |
| After further
checking, I did find a machine shop that regrinds ways - Lindmark
Machine in Seattle. The price for my 4 1/2' SB 9" would be in the
range of $1000, including rebuilding the saddle. Andy (18821) |
| Check with Schaffer
Grinding in Montebello CA. They quoted me somewhere around $470 to
grind the bed of a heavy 10. I think it was another $270 to fit the
saddle. I also seem to remember someone on eBay with a 4' bed that
would ship Fed Ex to the lower 48 for around $80. It might be worth
looking into. I just moved my office and can't find the info for
Schaffer Grinding right now. It was posted on Practical Machinist in
their South Bend forum. Chris (18852) |
| Getting bed
reground |
| I have mega wear on
the ways ( especially the front V) of my 10" I have used it for a
lot of non-critical projects but I now need to bore accurate holes
for depths of 2" or better. I find that now I have a pretty good
taper and need to use a reamer to finish. Are there any specific
machine shops that specialize in regrinding or can you still buy new. Frank (21408) |
| Frank, South Bend
will grind it and build the saddle up, scrape it in to original
specs. $1200. Paul (21412) |
| Paul, I had my
heavy 10 bed ground and saddle scraped in at South Bend not to long
ago for $1200. They did not build the saddle up, just scraped it in.
What did they build up your saddle with before they scraped it in?
Walt (21423) |
| Frank, The product
is called Turcite. I think it is metal mixed with epoxy. The saddle
was built up and the flat on it reground so that there is no
shimming needed to line up the gearbox to the carriage to the
leadscrew bearing. Paul (21430) |
| A big plus is that
Turcite B will give better than new feel to the carriage. Small
pieces of chips etc. that may get under the carriage are not so
prone to scratch and gouge the bed ways either. I rebuilt a Monarch
lathe using Turcite B (a sheet material that is cut to size and then
glued in place) and was amazed by the difference in smoothness of
the carriage travel. I did the cross slide and compound as well,
once I saw the difference it made on the carriage. $1200 doesn't
sound too expensive for that kind of work. I have a heavy 10 that
could benefit from that treatment but the shipping cost from up here
in Alaska would probably kill me. Ward M. (21460) |
| The place that is
regrinding my bed said that they never user Turcite on the south
bends...he uses something else. I don't recall what his reasoning
was but will ask him when I go pick it up next week. I'll also post
some pictures of the results. Kevin (21482) |
| Moglice
maybe? (21491) |
| I bet there are
lots of members who would like to know the identity, location and
phone number of companies others have used to regrind their lathe
beds as well as the cost and result. (21496) |
| Yes, I believe that
is what he said. (21511) |
| I had the bed to my
9" reground by South Bend. If I remember the cost the correctly it
was $1100.00. The saddle was also scraped to match the bed and also
where the apron bolts to the saddle, to keep the apron lined up with
the leadscrew. My tailstock base was scraped also. The original bed
was in pretty bad shape. Being my first lathe and not knowing that
much about them, the one I bought was pretty much good as a boat a
boat anchor. The guy I bought it from was a machinist and basically
lied about the condition. The lathe was sitting on the floor with a
bad motor and so I wasn't able to power it up. Once I got a new
motor it made a lot of noise when running it because it was so worn
out. Ah well - lesson learned - the hard (expensive) way. I got a
good as new headstock off ebay for a decent price, and the lathe
works great now. Of course a few more things need to be done to make
it better but it is useable now. Alex (21520) |
| My reground
bed |
| If any of you
recall, I took my bed in to be reground a few weeks back. He
finished the bed and I got to swing by and take a look at it. It
looks nice, I can't wait to use it. He had offered to show me how to
mate the apron, etc and rebuild the cross-slide but I decided to just
let him do it instead. He has offered to let me work with him this
weekend and show me how to do some of the things like fitting
phenolic (which is how he is going to do my saddle, etc) and
frosting. Should be very interesting. I am going to take him up on
it. I will definitely take my camera along this time so I can get
some pictures of my his work. Maybe I'll offer to throw up a web
page for him so he can display some of what he does. I am curious,
for those of you that sent your beds to South Bend, did they frost
the bed as well? Kevin (21588) |
| Kevin, They offer
it for an added charge. I think it is $150 Paul (21590) |
| Paul. Do
you know how important the frosting is? Is it just cosmetic? (21595) |
| Kevin, It is used
to distribute and hold the oil lubricating the ways. I didn't have
mine done but they insisted on frosting the underside of the saddle.
Paul (21604) |
| I wish South Bend
had told me about this option when I sent mine to be reground. Is
frosting the same as the scraped look? Alex
(21605) |
| Paul, I haven't
been following the messages, but I assume you recently had a bed
reground. Where? I've just acquired an older heavy 10 with moderate
wear on the ways. I would consider having the bed done depending on
cost and distance from me. (I live in South Louisiana, it seems that
everything is far away.) Greg (21626) |
| Greg, I sent my bed
to South Bend Lathe in northern Indiana. The trucking was about $40
each way. I built a skid that was bigger than the bed and put 4x4's
on the bottom for tow motor forks. I bolted the bed to the skid and
shrink wrapped thick Styrofoam all around it. It came back on the
same skid with the Styrofoam repacked on it. Took about 3 weeks.
Paul (21627) |
| I had it done in
Indianapolis. He charged me $450 to grind the bed. I'm also having
him fit the saddle, headstock, and tailstock. He is also going to
repair the worn dovetails on the cross-slide. I think it is going to
be another $300 for that work. He is fitting them all with phenolic
so I won't have to shim the rack or the gearbox. I saw my bed last
weekend when I dropped off the saddle and he did a good job. He let
me hang out with him last Saturday and showed me how to do some
things like scraping and flaking - he's a real good guy. I do web
apps for a living and I have some unused space on my web server so I
offered to take some pictures of his work and throw it up on a web
page once I get my stuff back. I'll post a URL once that happens. If
you are interested, the company name is Acme Machine Tool Rebuilders
and the # is 317-409-3006. Kevin
(21632) |
| Paul, Thanks much
for the info. Mine is a short, (3 1/2 foot) heavy ten bed. I've
e-mailed Rose for info, but haven't yet heard from her. If you don't
mind my asking, what was your cost for the regrind? Greg (21641) |
| Someone told me
recently that Rose is no longer with either SBL or LeBlond, that she
had started her own company. Anyone know anything about
this? (21642) |
| Rose Marvin Parts Works, Inc. 3702 W Sample St Ste 1104 South
Bend IN 46619-2947 Business: (574) 289-7781 Business Fax: (574)
289-7783 E-mail: rose@p... Parts for South Bend Lathes. Scott Logan (21645) |
| Yes it is true. She
is at partsworks now. Info around here somewhere.
www.partsworksinc.net perhaps? (21649) |
| Greg, Rose is not
at South Bend anymore but she may be able to tell you who is doing
the bed grind. Mine is also a 10L with a 42" bed. It was $1000 for
the bed, I paid another $200 to have the saddle reworked and scraped
to fit the bed. Frosting the ways was $200 more but a guy I know is
going to do that for me. Some on this thread are using a guy in Indy
that charges $450 for the bed. He may be doing beds for South Bend
as they do not do it in house. Paul (21654) |
| Greg, I have a
Heavy 10 and sent it to South Bend about a year ago for a regrind
and scraping of saddle to fit. Total cost was about $1400 if I
remember correctly. This is higher than a lot of quotes you see for
regrinds by other people other than SB. Turn around time was a
little over 2 weeks from time of shipping. Usually takes longer but
I was lucky as they told me they were already set up and doing some
regrinds. I was very pleased with the regrind and their service. My
only advise if shipping by carrier is to fully crate your bed. Takes
a little longer than just skidding, but worth the piece of mind to
insure safety in transit. Ed (21655) |
| Paul, Thanks for
the info. All things considered if you can buy a used machine for a
grand or less and dump another $1,500 or so into reworking costs
it's well worth it to have an American machine and not one of the
Chinese "things". I guess you have to be into taking things apart.
To me, that's half the fun. The bed wear on my machine is moderate.
I'm not sure whether I will have it reground or use it the way it
is. However, the figures you mention beat what I've heard down here.
Greg (21656) |
| Does Ross still
have the serial number info, shipping dates or not? Thomas (21665) |
| Greg, I live in
North La. Maybe just a little closer than you, I know the feeling. I
have a 9" that needs a little work, but I need a mill a little
worse. Paul (21703) |
| Kevin, I'm sorry
this of your topic a bit. How did you like the quality of the work
he did on the lathe regrind? Did you say he was in Indianapolis? I
have his name and number from you previous post. John
(22435) |
| John- Yes, he is in
Indianapolis. The work is great. Other than my headstock, this thing
is in near perfect condition. It was fairly worn. The dovetails on
the cross-slide were worn in the middle so the cross-slide was
sloppy and the gib was maxed out. He fixed that up as well. I am
pretty happy with his work. I didn't have him flake the bed, but he
did polish it after the grind and it looks great. I have quite a bit
of money sunk into this old lathe so far, but once the headstock
situation is taken care of, I will basically have a like-new lathe
of much better quality than the imports so it isn't bothering me too
much. I plan on taking some pictures once I'm done aligning the
headstock and throwing them on a web page. Kevin (22436) |
| Kevin I am located
in Indianapolis also and have considered the bed regrind on my 9A.
Can you tell me if he does this for anyone and the ball park cost I
could expect to pay? Ed (22458) |
| Russ or Ed,
Based on his previous post he mentioned that for just the regrind of
his heavy ten 3.5 bed it was $450. But he had the saddle fitted as
well as his crossfeed ways re-machined or scraped. The total was
$750. He also mentioned that he was quite busy. I tried calling him
today but no one answered. So Kevin did I recall correctly? John
(22465) |
| Ed- He will do it
for individuals, yes. My total ended up being 900 with the saddle
being fitted and fixing my crosslide dovetails. It was 450 for the
bed grind and another 450 for the other services. I think if I
didn't need the cross-slide fixed that it would only have been like
300 or 350 to fit the saddle and tailstock and all that. My bed is
3.5 foot. He may charge more for longer lengths - I'm not sure. If
you talk to him, just mention the work he did for my lathe - you
should get the same pricing. -Kevin (22479) |
| John- Yes, that is
correct - except that the total was 900 due to having the
cross-slide dovetails machined. I'm surprised he didn't answer, I
know he is busy but he always answered when I called. He has two
numbers on his card: Home: 317-486-8032 Mobile:317-409-3006 I think
I always used the mobile number. Here's a scan of his card sorry
about the awful quality (22480) |
| Lurch, I sent my
bed to South Bend a year ago. It had really bad wear, so much that
somebody put a shim under the rack to keep the drive gear engaged
when it got to the worn area. The saddle was also badly worn. The
bed was $1000 to regrind to mirror finish, the saddle was $250 to be
built up with turcite, ground and hand scraped. They also ground the
outside flat (saddle) so that the carriage would not need to be
shimmed. I thought this was a fair price. My brother dropped off the
bed at South Bend. He said the shop was only 40,000 sq ft. They had
no large bed grinders. I have a feeling they are sending the beds
out, possibly to an ex-employee that bought the equipment when they
went under. This may be the guy in Indy that is doing it for around
$500 for the bed only. They will hand scrape and frost the bed for
another $250. Paul (22491) |
| Making scraper
from an old file |
| I need to do
some freehand turning of some brass surfaces and want to make a
hand-held scraper from an old file. Do I need to anneal the end of
the file before grinding it? How do I temper it after grinding?
Anybody done this who can share the secret? Frank
(22163) |
| Frank, no need to
anneal. Grind the steel as needed. This is plain high carbon steel.
Do be careful to not overheat by watching for colors. Cool in water.
RichD (22173) |
| Frank, Also
remember that the file is VERY brittle, so don't let it overhang the
tool rest by much at all! It could snap off, and in doing so,
shatter, producing dangerous "shrapnel". Mario (22175) |
